The Campaign Builder's Guild

Well it's been a few days since the great turtle handed over the reigns. Other than a leadership name change I'm sure things have seemed rather uneventful which is what I was hoping for as I still want this to remain the same site as it has always been. Now however that I've had time to consider things I would like to open up a discussion for anyone who would like to comment on the future of The CBG. As I've already said The CBG 2.0 is still in the works and I'm talking with Ishmayl about getting access to the Drupal code, though I'm also considering other options. The most important thing beyond keeping things running smoothly I think is cleaning up the site as there is alot of old stuff clogging the place up, I plan to fix this with CBG 2.0.

The concept is pretty grand and I hope that it is eventually realized but the core aspect of getting us into a fresh setup is the most important thing and so alot of the extra things that were considered are getting put on the back burner in favor of getting the main forums and other vitals running. So then I'm asking you all as fellow members of the community to voice your opinions on the direction the site is taking. I'd really like feedback on what you think is vital for The CBG 2.0 beyond just the forums and less vital things you'd like to see added in later on. Any other comments on the future of the site and where we're currently heading is also appreciated and I'll also be happy to answer questions as best as I can. This whole thing is still very new to me and I think that if we share our collective knowledge it will go smoother for me as well as you.

Fellow CBG Member and Turtle Fan,
Nomadic

As far as my own thoughts, I'd like to see an integrated system in the CBG 2.0 for posting clean, nice-looking system information without having to know html; sort of like the forums, but with more options regarding layout. That's just me, because I'm too lazy to learn html.

I'd also like to see more outreach; I don't know how much advertisement goes on in the D&D forum, but I don't think we're big enough yet to grow via word-of-mouth alone. More is, hopefully, better. Long term, I'd love to the the campaign builders magazine start back up, and maybe an organized collaborative effort for review groups (most attempts have been DOA, unfortunately).

Personally, I'd like to see a live chat integrated with the main page. mRIC is all well and good but I think we'd see more chat interest if it were integrated.

Quote from: Stargate525I'd also like to see more outreach; I don't know how much advertisement goes on in the D&D forum, but I don't think we're big enough yet to grow via word-of-mouth alone. More is, hopefully, better. Long term, I'd love to the the campaign builders magazine start back up, and maybe an organized collaborative effort for review groups (most attempts have been DOA, unfortunately).

Personally, I'd like to see a live chat integrated with the main page. mRIC is all well and good but I think we'd see more chat interest if it were integrated.
[/quote]

Noted. For my part I agree this would be good and I'll consider such a thing, possibly as an IRC aid, possibly even as a replacement for the tavern itself.

Moar contests.

Lots more contests.

(they don't even need prizes. Just, y'know, more contests)

Quote from: NomadicNoted. For my part I agree this would be good and I'll consider such a thing, possibly as an IRC aid, possibly even as a replacement for the tavern itself.

I wouldn't remove the Tavern, its great for posting bulletins that don't require a thread but need to be seen.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI wouldn't remove the Tavern, its great for posting bulletins that don't require a thread but need to be seen.

Very good point, just an on-site IRC connection to let members chat in real time without needing any IRC knowledge then.

Quote from: NomadicAs for that last part I think a return to the cbg magazine would be a welcome addition. I'm not sure what sort of time I could commit to something like that but with the help of some committed campaign builders I'm sure that such an undertaking would be within our grasp.

For our newer members who aren't privy to what this was, the CBGuide was a small, irregularly-released zine that featured articles by members of the site. The articles focused on various aspects of world-building.

I had the proud distinction of being a coordinator and editor for part of the Guide's history, and I can say this much: If people genuinely want to revive the Guide, then I encourage it, but I have to warn that it's a lot more work than it might seem at first. Even when I had volunteers for much of the leg work, coordinating content and setting the agenda was a huge task, and the Guide collapsed in part due to a lack of quality submissions from users. The Guide also caused minor ripples of drama once, and a member left in part because he felt his criticism of the Guide was unwelcome and that the community had become sycophantic.

I maintain that he was wrong. But I caution any prospective candidate who wants to take up the mantle of the Guide's editor- your responsibility will be to produce a quality product that both enriches our community and represents us to the web at large, and you will need help and innovative methods of recruiting writers. You will have to reject work from people you've known for years if you feel it is inadequate, and you will have to dedicate serious amounts of time and energy coordinating artists (either public domain art arranged by a graphic designer, or artists who grant permission to use their pieces), contributors, and editors- although you may be able to take some of these other tasks on yourself if you have the appropriate skills (thus eliminating the number of people you'll have to rely on), that will be all the more personal time you will be devoting to the Guide on a regular basis.

Just my thoughts, and I hope I didn't scare anyone away from the idea. Best of luck.

Are we planning/wanting to grow?

Seriously, this has a huge effect on everything said so far or anything that will be said. The CBG has been, in my tenure here, mainly made up of 15-20 core members and maybe the same amount of marginal members (new/returning/bopping in &out--Snargash, I'm talking to you...)at any given time.  Even in terms of critical population mass, we seem to stay about the same size.

I love being niche and edgy and all that, but I have always believed that a little membership boost will solve many of the little issues we have about thread interest, etc.  (Not to mention my reading on the effects of group size to brainstorming and productivity) Not a lot, just changing the critical population point up a few notches.  I think that some outreach and a progrowth agenda will do us a lot of good.  

Secondly, I concur that a closer and easier access to chat/gaming chat will help us out.  For the first time since I have been here, we have a few people running semi-regular online games, perhaps aided by certain members monomaniacal tendencies, but it is still an important point.  
Understand this has a synergistic effect onto the group-size building agenda.  Gamers like to game.  Many don't game as much as they'd like.  A site that is known for Campaign Building and online playing of said campaigns will attract some more posters.  I point to Skofflox/Vermortis as proof, not to mention Jomalley and others who show up in #celtricia (which I consider the subgroup to #thecbg) just to watch players cry...I mean, watch us play.  Yeah.  Sorry about that. [spoiler=Shout out] And a shout out to Isomage for pure awesomeness.[/spoiler]
Many of us also check in from work regularly, and can't run IRC from company-owned mcahines.  So a more integrated chat would also enable that feature more use.

Thirdly, a way to create sub-thread groups would make those of us who tend to create sprawling stream of consiousness thread groupings would probably be useful.  I've been trying to stay consistent with my thread creation, but if a reader could browse by a created grouping, it might enable a little more feedback.

Fourth and Foremost...To mix a few...The OverLord has left the building, Long Live the Overlord.
Ishy, we'll see you on the next part of the Cycle.

Quote from: NomadicI sort of see where you're going with this but perhaps some elaboration. What sort of things would you like to see in the form of bbcodes and such for that sort of layout? Tables? More styling options?

My biggest complaint currently is the lack of wrapping for images, and the lack of a wrapping sidebar that isn't that atrocious yellow (useful, but glaringly annoying if I want to put a chart or something in there).

Quote from: NomadicI'd like to start running some semi-regular contests and advertise them on our sister site. The cartographer's guild has a very large and active membership pool and getting some of them to check us out here more regularly would be awesome.

We could run joint contests with CartoGuild, with maps created based on contest-winning descriptions or vice versa.

Congratulations again and good luck, Nomadic.

I again echo what Vreeg says (he has a great idea)- the projects and everything can be much easier to do if we have more members. If you post at other forums, advertising the CBG in your signature will attract people.

I think the CBG gets a lot of views, but few posts currently... If you look at the Effie the Wyrm's top site list, the CBG consistently ranks highly in views in-- but these people don't post.

One simple fix on that is to correct something weird about these boards- the POST REPLY button doesn't appear if you aren't registered. You have to go back to the front page to register. If POST REPLY or NEW THREAD was on every page (and it took you to a please register page); then people might be more tempted to register b/c it would be easier to just drop in and make a comment.

Integrated chat would be a nice idea- but probably too difficult to code. I'd support it though- also, I'd support more obvious links on the FRONT page to get to MIRC. I try to follow the forums information on that and it's a bit confusing.

Making the Chat and running games 'our thing' may get people-- Advertise 'run games in your world'... make it really easy to get into the IRC- like links to mIRC or mibbit - simple programs on the front page... Encourage people to integrate forum posts with the wiki and the chat.

Many sites support running PbP DnD games- if we focus on supporting IRC DnD games we'd be unique. Or at least we could provide a very easy in-platform for people looking for these IRC games. There could even be a schedule posted somewhere- in a thread at first; then after CBG 2.0 a dynamic calendar with game times and people-checkin lists. I find it a bit difficult to know when Steerpike's games are gonig to be sometimes (since there's about 3 or 4 threads that he has on his game.) If there was something central, it might be more attractive for new people to drop in.

Also maybe useful for steerpike at least is w/r/t the chat logs I think he has to currently format it from "<<Nomadic>> to Bold nomadic and delete the <<s. What if we could hack up a CSS forum script to auto-change The IRC crap and substitute in our own style sheet. Recalling back to my web-design days (haven't coded for a salary in 8 years; haven't coded in 6), I'm pretty sure it's possible.

The best feature the NEWEST POSTS crawl on the front page should be maintained-- I only look at that to see the newest posts b/c it's the most efficient way to see hwere to contribute.

I think that Sarisa, Steerpike and myself had some things to say on attracting new people to the CBG in an old Dragon's Den thread.

I also think that I had an old thread where I commented at length w/r/t an easier time-managed restart of the magazine. I don't think I have the time to restart it even in the scaled-down version that I suggested, but the proposed structure is there in an old thread. (Basically, republishing our contest-work and other information and distributing through the gaming blogs-- the big work would be in 1. assembly/permissions and 2. promotional work ; rather than trying to hunt down submissions.

So I guess we have 2 possibly 3 points of differentiation and one good connection.

1. I love our coding here with the IC and the OOC and Note shoutouts  on the forum- it's why I registered and posted my settings here.

2. We can focus on being the IRC place to host your setting on Wiki or the Forums and to attract players. (Maybe attract some people from the GiTP forums or the DnD online crowd)

3. We can use Magazine releases on blog sites that focus on gaming to increase buzz. No one else does the magazine-- although on Paizo's forums the Wayfinder project basically is what the CBG did.

4. We have a good relationship with Cartographer's guild- we should use that connection.

--

Quote from: Stargate525As far as my own thoughts, I'd like to see an integrated system in the CBG 2.0 for posting clean, nice-looking system information without having to know html; sort of like the forums, but with more options regarding layout. That's just me, because I'm too lazy to learn html.

Have you played around with the Wiki at all? It's versatile and fairly painless to learn, and I'd be glad to give some pointers or help with troubleshooting (and there are plenty of folks around the site who are similarly helpful, only more technically proficient, too!)

Back to the original topic:

I think Vreeg is right on, re: focusing on games. Games can be a huge draw for the community, and one of the things that I'm thinking about is the fact that most of the games we organize through the site are run through IRC, which is sort of a "had to be there" medium. Somebody usually ends up with chatlogs afterward, but if I log on to the CBG on a Tuesday afternoon and I'm curious about what's been going on in the local games for the past week, it's often pretty hard to find that information unless somebody's posted the highlights and has taken pains to make them easy to find and well-organized. (Vreeg's pretty good at doing that sort of thing for his games, but still.)

I'd love to see features that make it easier to post information about games that we're running through the site, and to browse/read/play them. What I'd really like to do is to create subforums for this purpose.

Say, for example, I start running two games here on the site (if only!): a Tuesday-night Jade Stage game in IRC, and a play-by-post. What if we have a PBP forum where I could create a separate subforum for each game-- threads for each character, with their character stats, bios, in-character journals, comments on crazy stuff that's happened to them during the game, etc. Threads for big events ("The Council of Five's Start-of-War Meeting"), for Q&A on important setting aspects related to this particular game ("Who's Who in Yolek-Ja"), and so on. Players from one game can easily browse the stuff that's happening in the other game, to see how their counterparts are affecting their shared world.

I mean, I know this is all possible to do on the wiki, and if I had the time to run two games, I'd probably do it. But in a forum, a lot of the setup is already done for us, and it's become clear that, right now, a lot of people just don't bother with the wiki anyway.

There's another thing that I think could be changed-- we ought to find a good way to pimp the wiki some more. Would it be possible to put some kind of wiki analogue to the "recent threads" window on the front page? (Maybe not a direct link to the Recent Changes code, because a lot of that stuff-- mostly mine-- is repetitive and boring.) Maybe some kind of weekly or monthly rotating "here's a cool thing on the wiki", or a few links to heavy-hitting Wiki projects like Clockwork Jungle or Asura that are right in a sidebar on the main page of the site. Something to get people to head on over there and see that it's pretty cool and minimally scary.

All in all, I'm pretty happy with the state of things around here. I'm excited about 2.0, and I'm sure we'd all have more fun with an infusion of new blood to speed up the activity around here, but I'm patient and content with our current setup. I think Nomadic's a prime choice to hold the reins of power around here, and I'm confident we'll continue to prosper under his savvy leadership.

In addition to IRC games, we should also see if we can improve our PbP traffic. We could market the CBG as a place where you can reliably and easily run PbP games in your own homebrewed world.

As for places we could try attracting new members, we should try the Giant In The Play Ground Forums (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/index.php). That forum is constantly active, especially they're PbP and RPG sections.

Pair o'Dice Lost posts there as well as here; I bet people like him would post more here if they received more feedback on their worlds when they posted them up.

The best good difference CBG has from GITP is that people can run IRC games on the CBG. I don't think there's much of a point in advertising PBP posting- they already have a good PBP area.

What they don't have is the platform for IRC games and the excellent wiki and the excellent forum software for displaying worlds.
-
CBG could maybe market itself as a good place to 'show off' ones' worlds... Until we get more posters, the new people aren't necessarily going to get feedback (a) and (b) the worlds we build are a bit different from those on GITP-- frankly, GITP posts keep closer to traditional DND whereas here we have Vreeg remaking the system; Steerpike creating a vastly different 'feel', etc. CBG does 'unique' well. And that may intimidate some 'normal' campaign and world builders.

There is a wiki analogue to recent threads. There's a recent activity feed for wikia wikis. You need to know how to code it up though, but you could probably deliver that info to the front page.

I think that's a good idea- the wiki recent feeds.

Also good idea is to have links (rotating automatically?) to some of the more active wiki sections (5 selected by nomadic that rotate as links on the front page.) That's a relatively easy coding job as opposed to the other job (the wiki feed).

Idle thoughts: We could try outreach into other types of creative communities, ones that focus on modding video games, fantasy fiction storytelling, stuff like that.

Quote from: NomadicPoor Limetom...

Seriously though yes, we need more contests.

I second (third?) this and I will also volunteer to help out with the contests if Limetom needs a break. :)

Yeah, I can at least supply ideas/write-ups for contests as well!

For the chat thing, what about a Mibbit widget? The basic ones are free and do include advertising, but it'd probably be the easiest and most cost-effective method to get a more easily-accessed chat room on here.

Make Adventure Moduals... Arch... Mini-one offs.... whatever... Make a Large city stuffed with adventure ideas and work with the CGuild to get the town maps, overland maps, and encounter maps. Together there is no reason why the two sites cant put out 1 decent adventure  every 2-3 months. We have LOTS of material here, but nothing that a causal gamer can stop by grab something good and playing at his table tommorow. U need a map? go to the Cartographers guild and find one that works. Wanna learn how to make one your self? they got Tuts. Need a professional one? wanna show the map you did in 5 min in paint on your first try? you can

People come here for.....
we can supply them with...
or teach them how to...
they give back...
they tell friends this is the place for...


Whats our Identity with out Turtles?!?!?!

Lots of great feedback, too much in fact for me to quote it all so I'll touch on some key points (let me know if I missed something you wanted me to comment on). First off it's good to know we've got some interest for running contests and this is something we can start right away without needing a new site so then here's what I'll do for that. If you would like to run some contests send me a PM showing your interest and a few ideas on contests you would like to run. I'll organize our contest runner pool and get that going. For each contest I'll get you a news article with a link to your contest and some details on it and we can hopefully get some entries. On that note I encourage the community to submit their ideas to any contests you can. I'll do so if there's only a couple submissions but I'd really like to see everyone who can putting in the effort. I see that most of us want us to grow which is good, but that's not a solo job for me but a collaborative effort involving the whole community being active and showing the world how vibrant and ready to grow we are. If you can do that I can do my best to bring the people here in the first place.

On the topic of easy mIRC access I'm going to talk with isomage about getting me founder access again on #thecbg so that I can set it up properly as well as talking with him about possible bot functions and commands that would support new players and DMs. After we have a foundation I'll likely grab something like mibbit and incorporate it into the site so that we can give it a test run.

Great comments so far, keep it up. This is very helpful for me in learning what to do with The CBG. On the other front I will say that I have set a meeting with Ish and BF and they're going to let me pick their brains on how to run the front end and back end of the site.

Expanding some of our focus from just setting creation to GMing discussions could be an interesting way to make things more welcoming to new people, but I've always thought our regulars were more than welcoming. I haven't been away due to a lack of welcome, or a lack of feedback; just a lack of motivation, a busy life, and a lack of direction.

Something I have always pined for but could never find enough support for was an official but unrequired setting template. Especially for new people, it would provide a starting point. Strengthening the wiki support would also make things easier to discuss a setting; threads are great for individual topics, but they are difficult to present everything.

You're starting off great Nomadic.

we need to provide a service essentially.

come to the CBG were you can find a city, a nation to put it in, an adventure arc, and a couple encounters. Got a session tommorow lots of home work? Come to the CBG. Lets encourge the posting of complete small pieces. Less WORLD building, and more usable bits and pieces that make up greater WORLD building. Organizations, GREAT NPCs/Characters, Cities, Nations, Worlds. Lets break the content up.

We need to change how we post information so that it is a) easyer to put it up piece by piece b) people can find pieces they are looking for in your collection of pieces (search by orc tribes or camps, search mage guilds, search noble houses) these things i can see GMs looking for.

Lets welcome non World building proficient gamers, so they come and read threads, take things for their tabletop, learn to write their own stuff, post it up on the site, and piece by piece build their own collection of mateial. The con worlders will get an influx of gamers to read their stuff, and eager GMs wanting to pick their brains and learn from them. And they get to know OTHER PEOPLE are exploring their little world.

Lets be less about completing the wall(world), and more about building bricks(people, places, plot).

Quote from: Light DragonCBG could maybe market itself as a good place to 'show off' ones' worlds... Until we get more posters, the new people aren't necessarily going to get feedback (a) and (b) the worlds we build are a bit different from those on GITP-- frankly, GITP posts keep closer to traditional DND whereas here we have Vreeg remaking the system; Steerpike creating a vastly different 'feel', etc. CBG does 'unique' well. And that may intimidate some 'normal' campaign and world builders.

I think this actually bears repeating. As a newish member of the community, I can certainly say that there is a TON of talent on these boards, and a good amount of it comes from very different approaches to "typical" D&D (whether that be 4E, 3.X, Pathfinder, 2nd Ed, whatever, etc.), which, as silly as it might sound, will come off as intimidating to some newer posters. There's people here who's writing can blur the line between forum post and poetry, and the CBG being the tight-knit community it is, people know who other people are. Go over to the Wizards of the Coast boards and you'll soon drown in anonymity amongst the hundreds of other posters who feebly appear and disappear overnight. Sure, there's big names, but getting there generally takes some work. On the CBG, you deal with a very smart community, and you get recognized fast. There will be some that don't like that, surprising as it may seem.

What I'm saying is: the CBG seems to attract a certain crowd. In my opinion, this is a good thing; a breath of fresh air. Sure, you might end up with less members, but the members you do get are usually pretty top-notch; you don't usually get any screaming matches, trolling, or that sort of ilk. People are generally willing to help, read, and critique. PEACH, if you will ;). I like the current community, and to echo the sentiments of Vreeg, I also would like to see more activity (I'm guilty of this myself), but I don't expect to see a flood of new, lasting members. I do expect to see a nice handful of new, lasting members, and I think that's what we could use. What the CBG does quite well, is take the diamonds amidst that flood of new users and keep them.

Now, getting to the whole advertisement thing, I would say I strongly support it. I found the CBG boards a year or two back ONLY BECAUSE I was around when Luminous Crayon posted The Jade Stage on the old Wizards boards way back when, and I adored it (still do!). A couple years later, I thought to myself "Man, whatever happened to settings like the Jade Stage?" and I googled his name. Lo and behold, I found he had posted on the Campaign Builder's Guild. Now, I tried to join then and there, but I had some random password problems, and it said I couldn't register or something, so I forgot about it. I actually had the same problem AGAIN when I rejoined about a year later, but somehow I got in. I think that was just my computer being weird, but it could be worth a look to see if anything is wrong; that would certainly keep new users away! I'd love to give the details of exactly what happened, but I honestly can't really remember... I think it had something to do with someone having to approve of my account, and it aways said it wasn't approved or something. Either way, one day it just started letting me post without telling me, which is why my join date is actually much longer ago than when I started posting. ...And I'm rambling - LET PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT THE CBG!!! Find a way to spread the word. I'll do my best to let people know on my end.

Tech-wise? Yeah, I don't have much to offer... I haven't gotten to hardly even tinkering with setting stuff yet.

Sadly, I also wasn't around when the magazine thingy was going on, but it sounds SWEET. I'm not sure how often I would be able to participate in it, but I'd do my best to chip in!

Oh, and Vreeg mentioned something about making the forums more manageable for massive threads: please do! Sometimes, I just don't know where to start with places like Celtricia, but I really want to dig into it and know what its about since I see it everywhere. It also doesn't help that I don't have nearly as much time on my hands as I'd like, but this would be a step in the right direction.

Weave is Taasty.  I like eating waxy lit crayons, too, as his House of Termination has 4 walls.  Yum.
Just call me Rampan.

To Lathe's point, we had this riotous, ' build a village' thread.  
God, that was fun.

Just wanted to pop my head in.

I don't think I could really add anything that has not already been said. I like the idea of focusing on gaming, and using an integrated chat feature.
This CBGuide revival sounds great, but I think that should probably be put off until things are a bit more organized.

Light Dragon said it well, and was echoed by a few other members, this should be a place to 'show off' ones world, (outside the confines of game systems, in my opinion) blur game system,art and poetry, and create a unique experience for the reader; if they can take that and use it in a game or get inspired by it for future CBG creations, that is great.
 
 per what Weave said about certain crowds (and I believe was discussed in that Dragons Den thread LD mentioned) there will always be trolling, and the occasional screaming match. I've found that given a solid community base, those sorts of people are generally ignored, wittingly rebuked or simply get bored after a while.

 Good luck to Nomadic.

Quote from: LordVreeg the UnsleepingTo Lathe's point, we had this riotous, ' build a village' thread.  
God, that was fun.

I remember that, it was fun.

On to comment/suggestions, since I dabble in publication these days, perhaps having workshops for publishing settings/worlds from members here in prepping it for publication. In my Kaidan - in final devopment I describe the patronage system of development and publication, perhaps we could try gather our own pool of patrons and try to publish a local setting and gear it for publication.

I'm still early in my understanding of the process, but even other kinds of more traditional PDF publishing could be done with sales directly from theCBG.org with partial payments towards hosting costs, etc.

Just an idea.

GP

@ the whole 'things that GMs can use' idea.

It's always bugged me that there's no quality place to find a bunch of different setting blocks, as it were. While building your setting's cities from the ground up is always cooler and more preferable, it's annoying when I've got a campaign the next morning, the PCs are heading for a city that I wasn't expecting them to get to for another month, and I'm also out of ideas.

I think that a section that's simply a repository of 'stripped' campaign elements (specific setting elements stripped or tempered to be more setting neutral) for DMs to pull, such as cities, dungeons, regions, landmarks, entire nations even, would be a good... pull. If we wanted to be more evil about it, we could have each setting's stripped pieces accessible via a password, which can be given out like badges.

Ooh, a place for badges would be cool, one that's on the sidebar instead of in the signatures. Integrate them into the site, morelike.

Quote from: Stargate525@ the whole 'things that GMs can use' idea.

It's always bugged me that there's no quality place to find a bunch of different setting blocks, as it were. While building your setting's cities from the ground up is always cooler and more preferable, it's annoying when I've got a campaign the next morning, the PCs are heading for a city that I wasn't expecting them to get to for another month, and I'm also out of ideas.

I think that a section that's simply a repository of 'stripped' campaign elements (specific setting elements stripped or tempered to be more setting neutral) for DMs to pull, such as cities, dungeons, regions, landmarks, entire nations even, would be a good... pull. If we wanted to be more evil about it, we could have each setting's stripped pieces accessible via a password, which can be given out like badges.

Ooh, a place for badges would be cool, one that's on the sidebar instead of in the signatures. Integrate them into the site, morelike.

That's actually one idea I have for contests where people will build something small like a village or a character or such. All the submissions will then be set up as drop in micro-modules for settings.

A few suggestions:
1. More integration between the forums and the wiki. It is difficult to notice what is going on in the wiki; I mostly use the forum and some people refrain from posting their material there. A "what's new on the wiki/what do people need wiki comments on" would be nice. Or perhaps just encourage people to make forum discussion pages for wiki settings?

2. Implement something akin to LC's recent megathread. This was one of the "you look at my setting I look at yours" threads and it actually worked quite well. I think the real issue with it is that it drowned in other posts. Most people only really keep track of the recent posts page because we are a relatively small community. Maybe if we put a big box/link on the front page with constant and easy access to threads such as the megathread they would not be so easily forgotten and continue to operate.

3. Make it easier to sign up. As previously mentioned, somebody needs to actively accept new members. Either make this automatic or rely solely on a captcha to scare away spambots. It's just too much trouble that you can't sign up quick and fast. I have tried getting one of my friends on the board for a long while, but his computer and user account continually puts a stop to his efforts.

4. Make settings more readily accessible. Much of the threads are work in progress etc. I think we need to show new users that we actually make some things. Put a spotlight on Celtricia, Cadaverous Earth and other complete or almost complete settings to draw new users in. then we can introduce them to the messy construction yard. Perhaps we could have dedicated pages to complete settings or simply a centralized page with links to sprawling wiki adaptations.

5. Redo the search engine so that if I make a search on the front page it automatically assumes I mean the forum. It's not often I (or anyone) need to search the News, and it's a bit troublesome to click through to the forum and then search.  

6. I'm not so sure about whether we should market ourselves as creators of generic npc's and towns to insert into people's campaigns. I see this as more of a creative community, not a plug-and-play community. GM's should come here because they enjoy working on their own setting and want some feedback and inspiration, or perhaps a finished setting that appeals to them, but not just bits and pieces.  

Quote from: Conundrum CrowA few suggestions:
1. More integration between the forums and the wiki. It is difficult to notice what is going on in the wiki; I mostly use the forum and some people refrain from posting their material there. A "what's new on the wiki/what do people need wiki comments on" would be nice. Or perhaps just encourage people to make forum discussion pages for wiki settings?  

Definitely this one.

At one point there was talk about each member getting some kind of integrated section for their setting. So you'd be able to browse a list of settings, and get the details, discussion boards, etc. all in one place. I don't know exactly what Ishy had in mind, and this was a while back, but it sounded like something really good for us.

Build Worlds and games,
Play in Worlds and Games,
Get feedback and plug 'n' play for your Worlds and Games.

Join the Fortitudinal Testudinal community.  You  have nothing to Fear But Fear itself, and nothing to lose but your mental hymen.

Quote from: LordVreeg the UnsleepingBuild Worlds and games,
Play in Worlds and Games,
Get feedback and plug 'n' play for your Worlds and Games.

Join the Fortitudinal Testudinal community.  You  have nothing to Fear But Fear itself, and nothing to lose but your mental hymen.

I'm scared now.  :(

Hi.
I just noticed the IRC tab and mibbit was added- that's great. It automatically connects to the otherworlders server.

Next on the agenda, I think, should maybe be looking at registration-- both the
1. Autoapproval
and the
2. Ability to respond to a thread when not registered (the post reply button will take you to a REGISTER NOW page).(If you don't understand what I'm talking about, try to log out and then go into a thread- note what buttons are missing).

Then
3. Allow posters to have news reporting function maybe? Can you just enable that and not give them thread admin rights. I'm pretty sure that with most forum software you can. I'd suggest allowing limetom to post the news, and whoever becomes a constant who runs contests.
--
Another idea-
I think the calendar we have is good in concept, but I also think that people don't use calendars. But we need somewhere to easily see where games are going on IRC and for which setting...

I'd suggest maybe Just having a small feed in the place where the calendar was where news posters can place details like-->

Cadaverous Earth (LINKED) Wed 3PM EST - 7PM EST
(with a link to the thread for the game).

And the header for the section would be "IRC Games"

The only difficulty would be keeping the thing updated if the game creators can't update the calendar themselves; if the only people who can update it are the news editors, that's an improvement over just having Nomadic update it, but still not ideal.

>>6. I'm not so sure about whether we should market ourselves as creators of generic npc's and towns to insert into people's campaigns. I see this as more of a creative community, not a plug-and-play community. GM's should come here because they enjoy working on their own setting and want some feedback and inspiration, or perhaps a finished setting that appeals to them, but not just bits and pieces.


I support crow on this. I think Obsidian Portal and a few 'megathreads' on some of the other forums do this. Now, I don't think that it would hurt to have these places, but I also don't think that it should be a focus. It's not our core competency and it wouldn't be unique for us to have it.

People would probably be concerned regarding the quality of the generics, regrettably.

Accomplishing the generic village, etc. information seems best done through the ongoing contests we have had- like the "design a festival" contest and others.

Making a dynamic page on the website front tabs that lists the old contest threads might be a good idea in that case-- people could see in one place where the contests (and 'generic NPCs etc' are... Like it would be a dynamic feed linked only to the recent threads in contests... Now, this may require more management of the contests section; moving threads that have nothing to do with contest.

I dunno- it's not something I see as a huge goal, but that's one possible way I see to maybe make it work.

Quote from: Conundrum Crow6. I'm not so sure about whether we should market ourselves as creators of generic npc's and towns to insert into people's campaigns. I see this as more of a creative community, not a plug-and-play community. GM's should come here because they enjoy working on their own setting and want some feedback and inspiration, or perhaps a finished setting that appeals to them, but not just bits and pieces.  

I wasn't really saying that we should market it, but it would do a lot to help retain people if there is some sort of immediately useful aspect in the site somewhere, organized and easy to find. I'm pointing out that there is a lack of free plug-n-play stuff, and we could do something to fill that niche without turning from the main mission of the site.

Quote from: Light Dragon>>6. I'm not so sure about whether we should market ourselves as creators of generic npc's and towns to insert into people's campaigns. I see this as more of a creative community, not a plug-and-play community. GM's should come here because they enjoy working on their own setting and want some feedback and inspiration, or perhaps a finished setting that appeals to them, but not just bits and pieces.


I support crow on this. I think Obsidian Portal and a few 'megathreads' on some of the other forums do this. Now, I don't think that it would hurt to have these places, but I also don't think that it should be a focus. It's not our core competency and it wouldn't be unique for us to have it.

Ditto. The whole reason I came to this place to begin with was for its specific focus on world-building. I'm not sure if marketing ourselves differently, as a generic GM outpost, would be something I'm comfortable with (not that my comfort matters), and though it's always nice to see the Guild expand in members, I wonder if switching its focus so radically would sacrifice its mission.

Quote from: CC3. Make it easier to sign up. As previously mentioned, somebody needs to actively accept new members. Either make this automatic or rely solely on a captcha to scare away spambots. It's just too much trouble that you can't sign up quick and fast. I have tried getting one of my friends on the board for a long while, but his computer and user account continually puts a stop to his efforts.

still[/i] getting spammed like crazy. It sucks that the place has to be locked up like Fort Knox, but it's the only real way to protect the site and the users from malicious attacks.

Oh, and just a point of note- for people who are not registered- they dont' see the following tabs: WIKI, IRC, DONATE.

I'm not sure how an unregistered user would even find the wiki.

Quote from: Light DragonOh, and just a point of note- for people who are not registered- they dont' see the following tabs: WIKI, IRC, DONATE.

I'm not sure how an unregistered user would even find the wiki.

For security reasons, I don't think any of these should change.

EDIT: On second thought, I just don't know if any unregistered users would need to enter the IRC, I'm skeptical about their need to access the Wiki, and I know they likely won't donate.

Quote from: Elven Doritos

Quote from: Light DragonOh, and just a point of note- for people who are not registered- they dont' see the following tabs: WIKI, IRC, DONATE.

I'm not sure how an unregistered user would even find the wiki.

For security reasons, I don't think any of these should change.

EDIT: On second thought, I just don't know if any unregistered users would need to enter the IRC, I'm skeptical about their need to access the Wiki, and I know they likely won't donate.

Whether or not they're likely to donate, I'm not really sure what security issue might arise from allowing strangers to give us money. I mean, I don't really care one way or another, I'm just saying.

Quote from: Rorschach Fritos

Quote from: Elven Doritos

Quote from: Light DragonOh, and just a point of note- for people who are not registered- they dont' see the following tabs: WIKI, IRC, DONATE.

I'm not sure how an unregistered user would even find the wiki.

For security reasons, I don't think any of these should change.

EDIT: On second thought, I just don't know if any unregistered users would need to enter the IRC, I'm skeptical about their need to access the Wiki, and I know they likely won't donate.

Whether or not they're likely to donate, I'm not really sure what security issue might arise from allowing strangers to give us money. I mean, I don't really care one way or another, I'm just saying.

Hence the edit.

You cannot very well show off your campaign creations if people who aren't registered can't see or easily access the wiki. The wiki link NEEDS to be there.

While an argument can be made for keeping people out of easily accessing the IRC due to security issues; something has to give- either it needs to be easier to register or the IRC needs to be open to others to ENCOURAGE them to want to register and to join games.

You can't get people joining games if they don't know that they exist or they can't get to them easily.

Quote from: Elven DoritosDitto. The whole reason I came to this place to begin with was for its specific focus on world-building. I'm not sure if marketing ourselves differently, as a generic GM outpost, would be something I'm comfortable with (not that my comfort matters), and though it's always nice to see the Guild expand in members, I wonder if switching its focus so radically would sacrifice its mission.

Rawr. I was not implying that we re-brand ourselves. I'm just saying that if our focus is campaign and world-building, there is a lack of things here that GMs and players (who might not be actively building, but are interested in the result) can actually use quickly, or things that play well with other settings. It's awesome that a lot of the settings are tight and interwoven, but I think it hurts us in some way that we don't have any settings or setting peices that someone can take and use without having to also give out a fifty-page induction manual.

It's like a site that's a community of writers, but has no character studies, writing prompts, or plot examples (obviously not the best comparison, but servicable, I think).

EDIT: Also, what happened to the store?

It shouldn't be too hard to distinguish between guests and unregistered members, right? Why not have a specialsupport area (board, IRC channel, whatever) accessible to unregistered members and admins, but not to guests? That way, we can keep the security, but have a place where actual people can get help becoming members. We could maybe even have it inaccessible for normal members, to keep it as seamless as possible.

We're pretty damned good about reverting wiki vandalism, and the current captcha has pretty much headed it off at the pass.  I don't have a problem with unregistered members seeing the Wiki link (and all my Good Stuff(tm) is pretty much wiki-exclusive these days).

Very good points all. A few clarifications here.

Firstly the IRC is open to members only as it is in the testing phase. When we get it set up like we want then I will almost certainly be opening it up to anyone who wants to use it. As for the donate and wiki links the donate one I could probably open up just because there's no reason to lock it, the wiki I'll have to look into (probably talk with ishmayl about it at our meeting later today).

Secondly plug-n-play modules. I do not intend to make this our focus as our focus always has been for more filled out homebrew settings. However, plug-n-play is a great way to get creativity flowing as it takes much less commitment to make a single town or quest than an entire campaign setting. For this reason it makes good contest material. And if we're doing contests for the stuff there's no reason not to offer the finished entries to the general public as free drop in modules.

As for sign ups I will tell you all that there is no longer a manual admin acceptance issue. It hasn't been that way for some time. New members are auto-accepted and then I or one of the other people with access can look at the list and ban any accepted spambots we see. We actually haven't gotten many of those lately.

A couple things I really like that have been said:
- Integration between wiki and forums
- Default search to forums, not news
- Settings pages
- Post Reply visible to non-members linking to register page


One thing to point out is quite a few of these ideas are already being realized to one degree or another with The CBG 2.0. This is fine, I want to see what you guys still have interest in and what you don't so much care about. I am talking with ishy about getting the drupal code so that we can start working with it again and all of your suggestions will help me direct its continued development.

can we link a persons setting to their profile. like current projects tab under a persons profile? each project could link to the wiki page or a thread

Quote from: Kaptn'Lathcan we link a persons setting to their profile. like current projects tab under a persons profile? each project could link to the wiki page or a thread

Already done on cbg 2.0 I believe :)

Quote from: PsychopompMoar contests.

Lots more contests.

(they don't even need prizes. Just, y'know, more contests)

Man, and here I was having fun procrastinating.  Now I'm going to have to do, like, work or something.  :p

Quote from: limetom

Quote from: PsychopompMoar contests.

Lots more contests.

(they don't even need prizes. Just, y'know, more contests)

*chains limetom to the contest desk*

I'll admit that, shamefully, I only skimmed this thread, but I'm just gonna say I'm with CC on the Wiki thing and on thinking that plug-n-play is just not what most of us do, so why try to?

Going back to the first point, I check the forums most days (except when I'm on a trip/very busy) whereas I look at things on the Wiki like once a month at the most. True, I prefer the format of the forum, so that's partly a matter of personal taste, but also it isn't exactly as clear as it could be what's new and happening on the Wiki...

The wiki seems so far away, like a totally different website. The only thing I ever check on it is Jade Stage, because I GM it.

ok the pug and play thing seems to of taken a life of its own. I dont think the idea is to make little towns, moduals, npcs made for drop and play. But rather making the individual pieces of a persons setting more seachable, readable, and usable. We already make NPCs and build a world piece by piece. Being able to read (and then comment on) a setting piece by piece is good. It also allows a sence of acompishemnt for new people, so they dont think they have to post a full 30+ page thread of a complete world before they start to see comments. Lets not change what we do, but break what we do into smaller easier to search pieces. Also Contests for small content items can be fun and requested, no point in not putting the cotest winner/material in a section for easy take down and use.

I havent done HTML since highschool and so I dont post my stuff on the wiki, havent learned how to do layout in a thread, but I do lay my information out in text docs for print outs to my players (PDF) I already have this done, so i dont want to redo it all to post it here... what do i do?  2mb file upload limit? can we bump up to 5mb (that bumps up the pages i can upload per file from 4 to 15 pages with pictures)

Quote from: PsychopompThe wiki seems so far away, like a totally different website.

I actually have to CBG buttons on my quickdraw fastaccess bookmarks toolbar: the front page of the main site (just like the rest of you guys, I expect), and the Recent Changes page of the wiki, with the number of changes and the timeframe both set to the maximums.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonI actually have to CBG buttons on my quickdraw fastaccess bookmarks toolbar: the front page of the main site (just like the rest of you guys, I expect), and the Recent Changes page of the wiki, with the number of changes and the timeframe both set to the maximums.

I don't have it on my bookmarks...

It's my homepage.

Quote from: Salacious AngelThe wiki seems so far away, like a totally different website. The only thing I ever check on it is Jade Stage, because I GM it.

I'll second this. I don't even check up on JS anymore because of it.

One idea to fix this would be to have more links on the wiki that return to the main site. It also might help if the wiki had a theme that looked more like here.

Just a heads up, when I use the IRC Mibbit it messes over my MSN. Makes it literally unoperable. Just so you guys know.

Quote from: Rorschach FritosOne idea to fix this would be to have more links on the wiki that return to the main site. It also might help if the wiki had a theme that looked more like here.

 

  I like this.

Just took a quick peak at the wiki. Is there any way we can break up the header into two headers? one for the wiki itself, and one that leads back to the main site? That way, every page would have a link back.

I'll have to talk with sparkle about the wiki. I am unfamiliar with it.

The left side of every wiki page has a "Back to the CBG" link that goes back to the main site. If that isn't what you meant I don't understand, I guess.

Don't really know whether I'm asking how to use an existing feature or requesting that a new feature be implemented. What I'd like to be able to do on the Wiki is set up a bank of, say, a couple dozen snippets of content, and then request that a different wiki page display one of those snippets at random. Say, to get a random quote, or to set up a link that leads to one of six or eight pages on the site that I'm trying to show off, or to make a header with a rotating image.

If possible, I'd like to run this off (I guess?) a template, so that I could make one quote bank or rotating banner image collection, then use it throughout my wiki. Is that feasable at all?

Quote from: Luminous CrayonDon't really know whether I'm asking how to use an existing feature or requesting that a new feature be implemented. What I'd like to be able to do on the Wiki is set up a bank of, say, a couple dozen snippets of content, and then request that a different wiki page display one of those snippets at random. Say, to get a random quote, or to set up a link that leads to one of six or eight pages on the site that I'm trying to show off, or to make a header with a rotating image.

If possible, I'd like to run this off (I guess?) a template, so that I could make one quote bank or rotating banner image collection, then use it throughout my wiki. Is that feasable at all?

It might be possible with a template. Again that's something you'll have to ask sparkle to do as I am about as knowledgeable of the wiki as freakin' awesome horse is of not being awesome. :P

In regards to active members vs. lurkers: http://www.useit.com/alertbox/participation_inequality.html

tl;dr: Lurkers are a fundamental challenge to any online community, and the easiest way to gain active members is to simply accept the plethora of lurkers that comes with each new active member.

Edit:

Quote from: sparkletwistThe left side of every wiki page has a "Back to the CBG" link that goes back to the main site. If that isn't what you meant I don't understand, I guess.

Took a look, and that is what I meant. I was just thinking of something a bit more prominent, and maybe placed a bit better.

just to quote the "solution" portion of the artical Rorschach posted/linked.

How to Overcome Participation Inequality
You can't.
The first step to dealing with participation inequality is to recognize that it will always be with us. It's existed in every online community and multi-user service that has ever been studied.

Your only real choice here is in how you shape the inequality curve's angle. Are you going to have the "usual" 90-9-1 distribution, or the more radical 99-1-0.1 distribution common in some social websites? Can you achieve a more equitable distribution of, say, 80-16-4? (That is, only 80% lurkers, with 16% contributing some and 4% contributing the most.)

Although participation will always be somewhat unequal, there are ways to better equalize it, including:

'¢Make it easier to contribute. The lower the overhead, the more people will jump through the hoop. For example, Netflix lets users rate movies by clicking a star rating, which is much easier than writing a natural-language review.
'¢Make participation a side effect. Even better, let users participate with zero effort by making their contributions a side effect of something else they're doing. For example, Amazon's "people who bought this book, bought these other books" recommendations are a side effect of people buying books. You don't have to do anything special to have your book preferences entered into the system. Will Hill coined the term read wear for this type of effect: the simple activity of reading (or using) something will "wear" it down and thus leave its marks '" just like a cookbook will automatically fall open to the recipe you prepare the most.
'¢Edit, don't create. Let users build their contributions by modifying existing templates rather than creating complete entities from scratch. Editing a template is more enticing and has a gentler learning curve than facing the horror of a blank page. In avatar-based systems like Second Life, for example, most users modify standard-issue avatars rather than create their own.
'¢Reward '" but don't over-reward '" participants. Rewarding people for contributing will help motivate users who have lives outside the Internet, and thus will broaden your participant base. Although money is always good, you can also give contributors preferential treatment (such as discounts or advance notice of new stuff), or even just put gold stars on their profiles. But don't give too much to the most active participants, or you'll simply encourage them to dominate the system even more.
'¢Promote quality contributors. If you display all contributions equally, then people who post only when they have something important to say will be drowned out by the torrent of material from the hyperactive 1%. Instead, give extra prominence to good contributions and to contributions from people who've proven their value, as indicated by their reputation ranking.
Your website's design undoubtedly influences participation inequality for better or worse. Being aware of the problem is the first step to alleviating it, and finding ways to broaden participation will become even more important as the Web's social networking services continue to grow.

Right. To give a rough idea of our own inequality curve, we currently have 1040 members. Of that, I doubt we have over a hundred contributing members. Even 75 seems a little high. Out of that, I counted about 20 members posting in this thread. I'd estimate our curve to be roughly 90-8-2.

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_162368927119016

Interesting idea.

I'll agree with Lath's advice: Especially

>>'¢Make it easier to contribute. The lower the overhead, the more people will jump through the hoop. For example, Netflix lets users rate movies by clicking a star rating, which is much easier than writing a natural-language review.

Allowing people to REPLY TO THREAD on every page...which takes them to a "please register" link, is a lot better than the current way where you can only register on the main page and you can't even begin to reply to a thread otherwise. It seems very unwelcoming in the current system- if someone wants to write "great setting" it's just not worth their time.

Also, thanks Nomadic for noting that eventually non-registered-users will be able to see the wiki, irc (maybe), and donate tabs.

We need little things like "+1 like this post/thumbs up" for each post, "Recommend this thread", "most active posters of the week/month/ect" on the main page, "most recommended threads", ummm i think thats all i got for now... oh we need to brainstorm "reward/prize" ideas.

This is copied over from the Cross-Recommendation thread. I think this might be a better place for this:

Quote from: GambleWolfWhat about a keyword cross reference like they do with blogs. Like a list of words that are linked up to settings/elements?
  Off the top of my head: Macabre, Haunting, High adventure, Western, Feudal(Japan/Europe etc), system/rules-heavy, Homebrew Mechanics, Extensive, Bare-bones, Visually Striking(meaning thread presentation)

Quote from: Rorschach FritosThis is copied over from the Cross-Recommendation thread. I think this might be a better place for this:

Quote from: GambleWolfWhat about a keyword cross reference like they do with blogs. Like a list of words that are linked up to settings/elements?
  Off the top of my head: Macabre, Haunting, High adventure, Western, Feudal(Japan/Europe etc), system/rules-heavy, Homebrew Mechanics, Extensive, Bare-bones, Visually Striking(meaning thread presentation)

Tags? that would be good for insite search. I forgot that one, good idear.

I would really like to have a 'like' button on each post. There's a lot of the time when I look around and I think 'that was a really cool idea!' but I either don't have the time to reply or I can't think of anything constructive to say. A Like Button would at least show the author people ARE reading your work and liking it, even if they don't respond.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI would really like to have a 'like' button on each post. There's a lot of the time when I look around and I think 'that was a really cool idea!' but I either don't have the time to reply or I can't think of anything constructive to say. A Like Button would at least show the author people ARE reading your work and liking it, even if they don't respond.

Interesting idea, what are people's thoughts on this?

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI would really like to have a 'like' button on each post. There's a lot of the time when I look around and I think 'that was a really cool idea!' but I either don't have the time to reply or I can't think of anything constructive to say. A Like Button would at least show the author people ARE reading your work and liking it, even if they don't respond.

Interesting idea, what are people's thoughts on this?

 Depends on the implementation. Would a 'liked' thread display the user name of all the people who liked it? I suppose that's useful.

Quote from: Rorschach FritosThis is copied over from the Cross-Recommendation thread. I think this might be a better place for this:

Quote from: GambleWolfWhat about a keyword cross reference like they do with blogs. Like a list of words that are linked up to settings/elements?
  Off the top of my head: Macabre, Haunting, High adventure, Western, Feudal(Japan/Europe etc), system/rules-heavy, Homebrew Mechanics, Extensive, Bare-bones, Visually Striking(meaning thread presentation)

 Your right Rorschach, I agree.

If I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread.  But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI would really like to have a 'like' button on each post. There's a lot of the time when I look around and I think 'that was a really cool idea!' but I either don't have the time to reply or I can't think of anything constructive to say. A Like Button would at least show the author people ARE reading your work and liking it, even if they don't respond.

Interesting idea, what are people's thoughts on this?

+1

Quote from: SteerpikeIf I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread.  But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

I was thinking more on a per post, rather than per thread basis. Liking a thread says nothing, liking a post says a lot.

I'll grant you could feel bad when someone gets a bunch of likes and you have few but is it really any different than people responding to another person's thread while no one is responding to your's? At least with the like system, you would know people like your ideas, even if they don't want to respond.

Quote from: SteerpikeIf I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread.  But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

If I recall, this is exactly the reason we didn't implement this kind of thing when the site was first started up. We didn't want a popularity contest. (Similarly, there was a lot of debate about whether or not to include visible postcounts.)

Honestly, some of the projects on this site are huge and hoary enough to be plenty intimidating all by themselves.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: SteerpikeIf I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread.  But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

If I recall, this is exactly the reason we didn't implement this kind of thing when the site was first started up. We didn't want a popularity contest. (Similarly, there was a lot of debate about whether or not to include visible postcounts.)

Honestly, some of the projects on this site are huge and hoary enough to be plenty intimidating all by themselves.

If that is your thinking, then why display views? It can be awful disappointing to see just a handful of people have looked at your thread while hundreds have looked at others.

Quote from: SteerpikeIf I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread.  But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

Big agreement here. I find it disappointing when I don't get as many replies to my thread as I had hoped, let alone if the website is actually telling me that only 2.5 people even like what I had to say, lol.

Quote from: SteerpikeIf I was to play devil's advocate, adding a "score" to each setting might lead to the development of a kind of unpleasant competitive quality.

Several members over the years have commented that they found entering into the community somewhat intimidating.  What if the person wasn't racking up enough "like" points as they expected?  It might not even be their fault - maybe everyone was just busy with other stuff that day or whatever, and missed the thread. But if you're sitting there with only a couple of "likes" while the setting beside yours has 100 likes, or whatever, then it might be really discouraging and frustrating.  That would be really ironic, since the whole "like" thing is about encouragement.

Just my 2 cp.

Adding "likes" is well, adding a way to get feedback. If people are upset about not getting enough feedback, how does adding an easier way of "feedback" cause a problem. We already have ways of measuring how liked your topic is (replies, view count,ect) and people already want more feedback. People already have the problem bolded in your post. We are trying to come up with MOAR! ways of giving props with less work on the readers end.

Quote from: KindlingBig agreement here. I find it disappointing when I don't get as many replies to my thread as I had hoped, let alone if the website is actually telling me that only 2.5 people even like what I had to say, lol.

How is the site supposed to responsible for this?

2.5 "likes" is more feed back than 0.0 replies under the current system.

The system for giving feedback establishes how easy it is to give feedback, not how much feedback you will get. That depends on the post not the system.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfIf that is your thinking, then why display views? It can be awful disappointing to see just a handful of people have looked at your thread while hundreds have looked at others.

Honestly, I don't remember. This whole business was set up a long time ago, and I was not directly involved in the decision-making process. The wherefores and whys are all eluding me.

It just seems like adding a "like" feature might quantify setting popularity, which means inadvertantly hierarchizing the various settings on the board.  I'm not saying that's how the "like" feature would be intended, or how it should be used, I'm just imagining how it might turn out.  I'm 100% in favor of feedback and giving as much of it as possible, I'm just not sure a "like" button is the best way to go about it.

In all honesty, how difficult is it to make a very short post saying you like something anyway?

I understand my point my seem a bit counter-intuitive.  Basically, it takes a lot of courage to post one's writing online, at least for some people.  Having a system where you not only post it for review but are scored on it, in a way, might lead to disappointment and discouragement.

I could be wrong.  It could work beautifully.  Maybe I'm kicking up a fuss over nothing.

The more raucous the debate, the better the outcome!

I think I get your point, and understand its intentions
You dont want to keep "score", or mesure how popular the idea is, or if other people think its creative or original and..... wait a second, Thats why we come here! thats the risk we take showing our work to others, Steerpike.

So you want more opening for positive feedback (I am not alone, others want to use) without more openings for negative feedback (disapointment, feeling unaccepted).

With "less" people that access you work, the chance of no feedback is high, as you increase the number of people encountering your work, the risk of negative feedback increases but lack of responce goes down.

"which means inadvertantly hierarchizing the various settings on the board" I think thats kinda one of the goals of this thread accually. We are brainstorming ideas on how to search, find and recognise the data posted here better. Which means we have to have criteria for searching, I see you (and others) dont like searching based on whats most "popular" among reader/reviews here, Then I guess its tags.

I get your GOAL Steerpike and respect it. Your recommondation seems to me, counter-intuitive as you put it.

I have communicated all i have to say (thats constructive) on this topic, but eagerly look to see others views, or a better understanding of some that are already here.

Quote from: SteerpikeI understand my point my seem a bit counter-intuitive.  Basically, it takes a lot of courage to post one's writing online, at least for some people.  Having a system where you not only post it for review but are scored on it, in a way, might lead to disappointment and discouragement.

But we already ARE scored. The number of views and replies you receive IS your score. Things like the Clockwork Jungle and Celtricia are in a whole other league compared to my settings. The addition of a like feature for individual posts is not going to change that. :)

Quote from: Kaptn'LathThe more raucous the debate, the better the outcome!

I think I get your point, and understand its intentions
You dont want to keep "score", or mesure how popular the idea is, or if other people think its creative or original and..... wait a second, Thats why we come here! thats the risk we take showing our work to others, Steerpike.

So you want more opening for positive feedback (I am not alone, others want to use) without more openings for negative feedback (disapointment, feeling unaccepted).

My apologies if I'm misreading you, Lath, but I feel perhaps this is a (possibly unintentional) distortion of Steerpike's point.

We can have civil discussions even when we disagree, friends, but lampooning each others' opinions will get us nowhere.

My apologies if it came across as crass, it was not an intentional distortion of Steerpike's point, it was a statement of how I interpreted his statement, and asked for further clearification as in summary I did not understand his position.

The Second line was not ment as lampooning but rather communicating the incomplete/illogical intention I understood from his post. Not to insult, but to further clearify what I did or did understand in hopes he could use the information to construct a reply that I may better understand his position. ie. "What did he get and where did he get derailed?" from his persepctive.

From the standpoint of utility,
where does any scoring get us?

Removing real input and the obvious benefit, I find little utility from a social 'scoring' system save making newcomers feel more like newcomers.  I think thread views should be visible only to the thread owner, personally, though a 'recent activity' indicator might be nice.  

I find the best way to improve honest, useful feedback is to increase the amount of motivated users.  While some people don't care, I don't want any social delneators that may demotivate.

I think we're all talking about something different here. This is what I'm thinking about:

[spoiler](http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/826/thanksw.png) [/spoiler]

There would be a thank button at the bottom of every post that you can click. If you click the thank button, then your name would then pop up below the post.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI think we're all talking about something different here. This is what I'm thinking about:

[spoiler](http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/826/thanksw.png) [/spoiler]

There would be a thank button at the bottom of every post that you can click. If you click the thank button, then your name would then pop up below the post.

Thanking people I can get behind.  Liking shit is for...other people than me.

Yeah, I can get behind that more.  I was picturing it more like "4 people liked this post" kinda deal - that was what was worrying me.

In response to some earlier comments and to clarify my earlier position, the gist of my point was more or less like this:

1) I don't think making the CBG explicitly competitive is a good idea; settings shouldn't compete against one another.  Positive and negative feedback are still both good, and comments should still certainly be critical.

2) As I'd (mis)understood it before, the "like" feature would have, perhaps unintentionally, quantified a setting's popularity in a way that view count, for example, doesn't (i.e. 10000 people may have viewed a thread and all of them may have hated it...).

3) The point of the like feature would be to encourage members who don't feel they get sufficient feedback at the rate and in the amount they'd like.

4) Ironically, the ranking/hierarchization that could ensue from quantifying setting popularity might actually have the opposite intended effect.

However, the system Elemental Elf showed is different than what I was imagining.  Instead of an impersonal digit being attached to a setting, the "like" feature in this version is actually just a short-hand way of typing out a brief comment, something along the lines of "Like what you have so far, more please."  That I'm OK with, because rather than being a measure of popularity it's simply a time-saver for those who want to comment but don't have a substantive critique or addition and/or who don't have the time to type out a lengthier response.

EDIT: So, basically, what Vreeg said.

A "thank button" type of feature could also make the forum feel more welcoming to first time visitors, if it were enabled for them. Although this would mean "guests" showing up on the lists of people approving posts from time to time, it would also enable unregistered users to get involved - and in a way that wouldn't open the gates for spambots.

What if the "Thank You" / "Like" button was available, but only the creator of the post could see who-or-how-many people had thanked him/her?  Thus, it keeps the competition out (if s/he doesn't know what other people are-or-are-not getting thanked for, s/he won't need to compete)

Quote from: TankSpillWhat if the "Thank You" / "Like" button was available, but only the creator of the post could see who-or-how-many people had thanked him/her?  Thus, it keeps the competition out (if s/he doesn't know what other people are-or-are-not getting thanked for, s/he won't need to compete)

Now there's a thought. Would make it more of a private feedback thing and less of a contest.

I still don't see it as a contest any more than the number of views and, especially, the number of replies.

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: TankSpillWhat if the "Thank You" / "Like" button was available, but only the creator of the post could see who-or-how-many people had thanked him/her?  Thus, it keeps the competition out (if s/he doesn't know what other people are-or-are-not getting thanked for, s/he won't need to compete)

Now there's a thought. Would make it more of a private feedback thing and less of a contest.

Yep, this makes some sense

I don't like any of this, at all. If you like something, make a post that you like it. If not, don't bother, or give some constructive criticism. I don't see why we need any fancy mechanic beyond posts, especially one that exists mainly as some sort of popularity contest, even a private one.

Quote from: sparkletwistI don't like any of this, at all. If you like something, make a post that you like it. If not, don't bother, or give some constructive criticism. I don't see why we need any fancy mechanic beyond posts, especially one that exists mainly as some sort of popularity contest, even a private one.

I don't mind a little, especially if it is only visible to the owner of a thread, or if they can give little thank you replies.  
But I agree that anything that demotivates new member is bad, and that a goal should always be to get more people to post.

Quote from: sparkletwistI don't like any of this, at all. If you like something, make a post that you like it. If not, don't bother, or give some constructive criticism. I don't see why we need any fancy mechanic beyond posts, especially one that exists mainly as some sort of popularity contest, even a private one.

I'm with sparkletwist on this one.

EDIT: Post Removed by user

Quote from: Elemental_ElfThe argument being levied against the Thank you mechanic is laughable. Do you really think seeing 10 thank yous for a well written post is more of a popularity contest than seeing a thread with 10 replies?

We already have a popularity contest going on right this very second. You can go to the homebrew forum and see with your own eyes which settings are more and less popular.

A thank you button is far more gracious and elegant, and vastly less discouraging, then seeing some one else's setting thread with page upon page of replies and hundreds of views.

I also find it funny that the people who are most against this mechanic are, in fact, the most prolific and popular writers on the forum. You guys don't need a thank you button because you can snap your fingers and get all the replies you want. New setting authors will not have that luxury. Furthermore, new members may not have the confidence to post a reply to a given setting (I know I didn't when I first joined) but they will definitely have the confidence to click a thank you button.

I'm not trying to be divisive but I really don't see the doom and gloom that the anti-thank-you-button-ers are purporting.

EDIT: I suppose this is also a continuation of the "Is it ok to post 'You're doing a great job, keep up the good work' " debate.

You're doing a great job, Keep up the good work.

Veterans of the forum do not need a Thank You mechanic because they already know the community IS thankful for their contributions, regardless of whether their thread receives a large number of replies or not. But new people? They do not have that knowledge. When they sit, day after day with just a handful of replies, how do you think they feel? Unwanted? Foolish? Depressed?

A thank you mechanic is nothing more than encouragement for those people. They build people's confidences up and persuade them to continue to write, continue to post, continue to forge on ahead.

Regardless of how I feel, I understand some people do not like the idea of the mechanic because they see it as a deterrent to the style of criticism/support they desire. However, just as there are different ways to learn, there are different ways to provide criticism and support. The Thank You button is nothing more than a tool in our collective arsenal that can be used to obtain and encourage new posters.

Elf, you've banished any lingering worries I had about the Thank You button, so for my part, I'm quite convinced it would be a good feature, and wouldn't cause unpleasantness, especially in the form you presented above.

I certainly didn't mean to kick up a fuss - my initial objection wasn't based on a strong opposition to the idea, more of a vague unease, and your posts have persuaded me that that unease was silly.

Quote from: E_EVeterans of the forum do not need a Thank You mechanic because they already know the community IS thankful for their contributions, regardless of whether their thread receives a large number of replies or not. But new people? They do not have that knowledge. When they sit, day after day with just a handful of replies, how do you think they feel? Unwanted? Foolish? Depressed?

I imagine if their mental state is that tied into an online message board they just joined, there may be some better questions to be asking than whether or not their work is being properly appreciated. Sometimes the community runs slower than usual. Sometimes there is an inequity in enthusiasm between older and newer members' settings. As an aside, addressing a point from earlier posts: I don't think looking at setting views is a very sensible way to judge a setting's popularity, since a setting author's own visits to his page count to the total. Meaning a high page count could just mean that the author and a few other folks regularly visit the page

QuoteA thank you mechanic is nothing more than encouragement for those people. They build people's confidences up and persuade them to continue to write, continue to post, continue to forge on ahead.

Regardless of how I feel, I understand some people do not like the idea of the mechanic because they see it as a deterrent to the style of criticism/support they desire. However, just as there are different ways to learn, there are different ways to provide criticism and support.[/quote]The Thank You button is nothing more than a tool in our collective arsenal that can be used to obtain and encourage new posters. [/quote]

Unless they came to the community expecting thorough and in-depth commentary about their settings and find unqualified approval either less than helpful or even irksome.

Just my thoughts, and I want to clarify that I'm not trying to be uncivil or antagonistic.

Quote from: Elven Doritos

QuoteRegardless of how I feel, I understand some people do not like the idea of the mechanic because they see it as a deterrent to the style of criticism/support they desire. However, just as there are different ways to learn, there are different ways to provide criticism and support.

What about a Thank-You or Like button that had an optional message to add a 140-character message as to why the thing was liked?  This may seem counter-intuitive, as "if someone were going to type a message, wouldn't they have just hit "Reply?" for which I answer, "Maybe?"  However, while it wouldn't hurt to have such an option, it could be beneficial.  Imagine someone just wanted to hit "Like," and then they see, "Would you like to type a quick 140-character message as to why you like this thread?"  They start typing, realize they have a lot to say, and Bam! it's a real response.  It could be a set-up like this which would replace the "Quick Reply" button:

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7573/likew.jpg)

Quote from: TankSpill

Quote from: Elven Doritos

QuoteRegardless of how I feel, I understand some people do not like the idea of the mechanic because they see it as a deterrent to the style of criticism/support they desire. However, just as there are different ways to learn, there are different ways to provide criticism and support.

What about a Thank-You or Like button that had an optional message to add a 140-character message as to why the thing was liked?  This may seem counter-intuitive, as "if someone were going to type a message, wouldn't they have just hit "Reply?" for which I answer, "Maybe?"  However, while it wouldn't hurt to have such an option, it could be beneficial.  Imagine someone just wanted to hit "Like," and then they see, "Would you like to type a quick 140-character message as to why you like this thread?"  They start typing, realize they have a lot to say, and Bam! it's a real response.  It could be a set-up like this which would replace the "Quick Reply" button:

(http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7573/likew.jpg)

I really like that idea!

I am neither for nor against this idea I am simply getting all of your feedback. However, I will point out that the cartographer's guild has used this very effectively over the years (and theirs is a publicly viewable one). I wouldn't be too worried about it causing any damage to the site if it were implemented. I think it's more an issue of whether you think it adds something to The CBG.

I am against a Reputation meter, that is not necessary at all. But the basic mechanic they have for thanking then being lured into posting is quite nice.

Just a note- if some extra code is implemented; care should be taken that it doesn't increase page load times... that could be detrimental in an amount outweighted to the potential benefit.

I have not noticed any lengthy page loading times... Have other experienced this problem?

Quote from: Light DragonJust a note- if some extra code is implemented; care should be taken that it doesn't increase page load times... that could be detrimental in an amount outweighted to the potential benefit.

You would need ALOT of PHP to do that. Look at how fast the pages on this site load (relatively speaking anyhow). They're heavily PHP run and there's hundreds of scripts interacting to all bring you a page in a fraction of a second. A couple kilobytes of additional data won't do much to increase that load time.

Quote from: E_EI am against a Reputation meter, that is not necessary at all. But the basic mechanic they have for thanking then being lured into posting is quite nice.

  I would say I am against a Rep meter as well. I do like the posting thing we have...Don't know what it is called...based on the number of posts you have your in....moat cailin or hall of kings etc. I think that, in and of itself is a sort of reputation.

Quote from: GambleWolf

Quote from: E_EI am against a Reputation meter, that is not necessary at all. But the basic mechanic they have for thanking then being lured into posting is quite nice.

  I would say I am against a Rep meter as well. I do like the posting thing we have...Don't know what it is called...based on the number of posts you have your in....moat cailin or hall of kings etc. I think that, in and of itself is a sort of reputation.

We currently only have a Post Count, which is then categorized into levels, each with its own unique name. :)

Speaking of which, perhaps it's time to rotate the rankings. I've sat at the Leavetaking Stone for long enough it deserves some bad pun.

Ideas for new rankings? Maybe the planets in order of size? How many ranks do we use again?

Quote from: PhoenixSpeaking of which, perhaps it's time to rotate the rankings. I've sat at the Leavetaking Stone for long enough it deserves some bad pun.

Ideas for new rankings? Maybe the planets in order of size? How many ranks do we use again?

Agreed. I also think it's time to move the postcount upwards for rankings. I know a lot of us are completely maxed out.

Yes we need more bips to attain and new rank names.

Quote from: PhoenixIdeas for new rankings? Maybe the planets in order of size?

The named planets and moons of the solar system should provide a good number of titles to start with. Beyond that, you could turn to named stars, galaxies, nebulae...

Quote from: PhoenixIdeas for new rankings?

I'll admit, it took me a bit.

Maybe fantasy characters to replace fantasy places. I.e. Dresden, Rand, Jon Snow, etc.

Ooo, we have new rankings and I didn't even see it.

What do these new rank names come from...? Why am I 'The Lady'

Quote from: E_EWhat do these new rank names come from...?

some kinda book thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discworld_characters)

Quote from: E_EWhat do these new rank names come from...? Why am I 'The Lady'

Your infallible grace and good looks?

Oh, I just thought of a request: Could I get a "mark all read" button for PMs I've sent? I have four sent PMs that are unread and will never be read, because I sent them to people who haven't logged in for three years, or to accounts that apparently don't exist (because of the underscore problem).

Really it just bugs me that I don't have a zero there. :(

Ed: Also, Weave, I am a graceful and good-looking dude, so that doesn't mean a whole lot.  :mad:

LC, you're using these words, but all I see is "Lady-like" all over your post.  :cool:

ON TOPIC: I like the new names or titles or whatever they're called. I just wish one of them was like, Boba Fett, or something. And that I had it.

I think that ended more off topic than it began.

Love the new ranks!

Possible ranks for some later date. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Old_One)

Quote from: Luminous CrayonOh, I just thought of a request: Could I get a "mark all read" button for PMs I've sent? I have four sent PMs that are unread and will never be read, because I sent them to people who haven't logged in for three years, or to accounts that apparently don't exist (because of the underscore problem).

Really it just bugs me that I don't have a zero there. :(

It's probably a dumb feature, really, but I agree. Honestly, why would Alan ask me a question if he never intended to read my answer?

I had emailed this to Ishy right before he quit, but Plotstorming has been dead for some time.  Might want to get rid of the link on the front page.

Quote from: limetomI had emailed this to Ishy right before he quit, but Plotstorming has been dead for some time.  Might want to get rid of the link on the front page.

Unfortunately I don't know where to go to change that. I'll fire off an email to ish and see about that.

Can we re-instate the Setting Showcase?

Although the calendar doesn't seem to be the most favorite or used part of the site; what if all PbP games and times are announced on the calendar, for easy visibility for everyone on the site?

People running them can put the times in... either EST or GMT.

The question is if anyone would check the calendar? Or if this would just be extra work for little gain.

Quote from: Light DragonAlthough the calendar doesn't seem to be the most favorite or used part of the site; what if all PbP games and times are announced on the calendar, for easy visibility for everyone on the site?

People running them can put the times in... either EST or GMT.

The question is if anyone would check the calendar? Or if this would just be extra work for little gain.

I'm sure there's got to be a way to let the calendar convert times to the timezone of whoever's reading it.

I'm not sure the calendar game-time listings would be of much use to regular players in those games (who tend to know when the sessions are held), but they'd be great for people who just want to drop in and watch an IRC game here and there, or for people looking for a game to join in on. I think it's a great idea to organize that information in a more browsing-friendly way.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonI'm not sure the calendar game-time listings would be of much use to regular players in those games (who tend to know when the sessions are held), but they'd be great for people who just want to drop in and watch an IRC game here and there, or for people looking for a game to join in on. I think it's a great idea to organize that information in a more browsing-friendly way.

I, personally, would love to see something like this.

Hopefully the IRC link on the main page will go far to encourage people to casually participate in IRC games run in this community, even if it's just to drop in now and then to watch and cheer along.

Halfway through the thread at the moment, but wanted to post this comment before I forgot it.

Quote from: GambleWolf

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI would really like to have a 'like' button on each post. There's a lot of the time when I look around and I think 'that was a really cool idea!' but I either don't have the time to reply or I can't think of anything constructive to say. A Like Button would at least show the author people ARE reading your work and liking it, even if they don't respond.

Interesting idea, what are people's thoughts on this?

 Depends on the implementation. Would a 'liked' thread display the user name of all the people who liked it? I suppose that's useful.

Conceptart.org uses this.  This picture shows how it works. (http://lh5.ggpht.com/_z1o7y8ikOyI/TNB2kGeIenI/AAAAAAAAAgM/HvJuUN3zD50/s912/Like_Button.jpg)  I support it.

Could we make the home/front page a little snazzier?

Its alot of greys/blues...maybe a new THECBG 'creating campaigns' logo?

Hell, that could be your first contest Nomadic: Design the new logo.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonHopefully the IRC link on the main page will go far to encourage people to casually participate in IRC games run in this community, even if it's just to drop in now and then to watch and cheer along.

Umm.  Great.  I guess an arena-like atmosphere would be interesting for some of these games.  We HAVE had some pretty spectacular deaths.
I won't be asking thumbs up or down, though...

"We who are about to dice, salute you!"

Quote from: E_ECan we re-instate the Setting Showcase?

This would be cool, but I'm not sure how feasible it would be for long-term. The problem this had was that it required work from pretty much the entire community.

If we get enough new ideas in this thread, I suggest we work first on the ones that can be coded right into the site, then the ones that only need one admin, and then we can start working on things that require effort from the community-at-large.

I'm really with Stargate525 on the idea of having at least a section of ready-made parts. Were this something that the community wanted, I would gladly contribute to it fairly regularly and it would probably get more a little more active in the community despite my ADD personality / way of life. I think that something along those lines could also easily be included in a revival of the magazine (something that I would think shouldn't be done any more than quarterly, possibly twice a year). Assembling this sort of thing through ongoing contests would also be a wonderful idea, especially since everyone seems to want more of those. Maybe more of a focus on contests with bite-sized parts could really solve that problem. Breaking settings up into parts that can be commented in individually would also serve that purpose and help make this site more active, I think. One of the reasons I don't post as often as I would like is that by the time I get to a thread, the overall content is usually overwhelming.

I like the idea of being able to quickly rate something without typing out a full response. It's less valuable but can still be encouraging because at least you know someone is reading. I really like the way ENworld has this implemented, where you give people XP and they gradually gain levels. I also feel that if something like this were to be added to the site, it should be on posts, not threads. That really seems like it would say more. Even, as ENworld has it, being able to include a small comment that would go on the post would be nice, even ideal. Phrase it as thanking or whatever if that makes people feel better. I think the general idea is the same.

Tags on posts would also be a great idea, which I feel would work well with the above or even go to serve the same purpose.

What would people want from a contest? I could maybe run a couple, if it doesn't require too terribly much from me.

On a side note : I step out for a while to play some video games and this site gets turned upside down. The CBG never gets old.

This may or may not be possible... But is there any way we can re-order the smileys so all the really common green ones appear at the top of the list? Also, can we add more smileys?

Quote from: E_EThis may or may not be possible... But is there any way we can re-order the smileys so all the really common green ones appear at the top of the list? Also, can we add more smileys?

We used to have a ton more smileys. It might be cool if we could get those back.

For the unregistered people, on the first page there's a rather long introduction to the site. It's sort of outdated and I remember starting to read it many times, but giving up when it started repeating itself.

I also don't like how it pushes the recent threads section down on the screen. That section is probably our best advertising point.

Could that be shortened into 2 sentences maybe?

Current:
[ooc]Welcome!

Welcome to the Campaign Builders' Guild. The original ideas of the CBG were founded by Xeviat-DM at the Wizards of the Coast Message Boards, and expanded upon over the course of several months to become the thriving community you see now. There is one sole purpose for this guild, this site, and these forums: to help with the creation of GM-created, homebrew campaigns. In an RPG market where there are literally hundreds of published worlds - some good, some not - it is difficult for GMs to choose a world to adventure in. Often times, they will begin work on their own, personal campaign, sometimes inspired directly by pre-existing campaigns, and sometimes inspired by nothing more than the memory of playing outside in the creek when younger. This site is to help mold those ideas, to shape those themes, and to inspire in even greater detail the creation of complete worlds and campaigns to play RPGs in. Come in, join the guild, join the conversation, have a great time! Please submit all site-concerns to "The Cogs" forum, and please introduce yourself in the Rogue's Gallery once you're registered

Cheers!
-Ishmayl[/ooc]

Suggestion
[ooc]
Welcome to the Campaign Builders' Guild (CBG). The CBG was founded in 2006 by Xeviat-DM at the Wizards of the Coast Message Boards and it migrated here under the leadership and ownership of Ishmayl until 2010, when noble Nomadic took over.

This guild's purpose is to help with the creation of GM-created, homebrew worlds and campaigns. This site is to help mold your ideas, present them for review, to shape themes, and to inspire in even greater detail the creation of complete worlds and campaigns in which to play RPGs.

Come join the conversation.
 
Cheers!
-Nomadic[/ooc]

Or even...since no guests probably care who owns the site.
[ooc]
Welcome to the Campaign Builders' Guild (CBG). This guild's purpose is to help with the creation of GM-created, homebrew worlds and campaigns. This site is to help mold your ideas, present them for review, to shape themes, and to inspire in even greater detail the creation of complete worlds and campaigns in which to play RPGs.

Come join the conversation.
 
-Nomadic[/ooc]

[ooc]Welcome!

There is one sole purpose for this guild, this site, and these forums: to help with the creation of GM-created, homebrew campaigns. In an RPG market where there are literally hundreds of published worlds - some good, some not - it is difficult for GMs to choose a world to adventure in. Ofttimes, they will begin work on their own, personal campaign, sometimes inspired directly by pre-existing campaigns, and sometimes inspired by nothing more than the memory of playing outside in the creek when younger. This site is to help mold those ideas, to shape those themes, and to inspire in even greater detail the creation of complete worlds and campaigns to play RPGs in. Come in, join the guild, join the conversation, have a great time!

Cheers!
-Ishmayl[/ooc]

Eliminated the history since its not necessary for new members to know and the last sentence about where to post site concerns.

Quote from: Light Dragon[ooc]Welcome to the Campaign Builders' Guild (CBG). This guild's purpose is to help with the creation of GM-created, homebrew worlds and campaigns. This site is to help mold your ideas, present them for review, to shape themes, and to inspire in even greater detail the creation of complete worlds and campaigns in which to play RPGs.

Come join the conversation.
 
-Nomadic[/ooc]

I like that one!

Also, less important, but a revision of What is the CBG may be in order. It's a wall of text right now.

[ooc]The Campaign Builders' Guild is your one-stop source for information and communities centered around building and creating homebrew campaign settings, adventures, and worlds for role playing games. World building and campaign building is a craft and an art, to use the words of Raelifin, and goes far beyond just simply creating locales, NPCs, and adventure locations. These things must connect to each other in some sort of fundamental way. At the Campaign Builders' Guild, we will help you achieve a mastery of this art, either through reviewing your campaign setting, critiquing your adventure, or simply basking in the wonder of your campaign world. Go to the forums and ask for help for that new kingdom you're building, and ask for advice on the new magic system you're creating. And while you're here, please ponder others' works of art. Write your own reviews on someone else's setting, and play an adventure RPG in a new campaign world. You can't go wrong.[/ooc]

To (adding paragraphs and cutting out self-referential things to posters who sadly :( no longer post here, since newbies have no idea who they are).
[ooc]
The Campaign Builders' Guild is your one-stop source for information and communities centered around building and creating homebrew campaign settings, adventures, and worlds for role playing games.

Building worlds and campaigns is a craft and an art, and it goes far beyond just creating locales, NPCs, and adventure locations. These things must connect to each other in a fundamental way.

At the Campaign Builders' Guild, we will help you achieve a mastery of this art.

Whether you're asking for help, or posting your own ideas to the forum or the wiki, or writing reviews, or playing an adventure RPG on IRC, you can't go wrong.[/ooc]

Hm. One last thought for now:


Since the Setting Showcase is inactive, can we move it below the POLLS (which are active) on the left side bar?

Also, we could move the FANTASEUM section below the Polls too... Fantaseum is nice, but it might be better to make things to do on this site more visible than other sites people may want to go to?

Although I have another idea...

If we are not above self-promotion on other forums and if Xeviat and/or Gamer Printshop and/or Nomadic offer the prizes for donating to the CBG that they did in the past - of something like a map of a campaign setting, a dice bag, or something that for them is easy to make but which is a grand reward for those who receive...

Host a BIG contest, like the RPG superstar.

I'd be willing to work on some of the organization work, but we'd need many evangelists to advertise the contest.

The contest would be a variety on Paizo's RPG Superstar. We could call it "Campaign Superstar" or "World-Builder Superstar" and it would have a set word limit... 5,000 words? And it would have perhaps only one round, but potentially 3 rounds that focus on the gradual development of a campaign world.

All the submissions would be public and anyone can receive feedback while making them. But there would be a deadline-- like some of the great contests on the WoTC had deadlines for "design a villain" etc. contests that generally received 20-30 submissions, or like how on the OOTS forums they often have "design a monster" competitions.

If I were to outline the idea, it would work generally like this:

CAMPAIGN BUILDER SUPERSTAR
-Round 1: Design a Setting that Will Blow us Out of the Water
Requirements:
1.Core ethos written
2.Maximum 5,000 words
3.May reuse an old setting you previously used, but must repost it in the campaign area and otherwise comply with the requirements.
4.List of inspirations for your setting (does not count towards the 5K word limit; has a 200 word limit)

ROUND 2:
Design thematic concepts for monsters in your setting.
Must meet the following requirements
-a
-b
-c

ROUND 3:
Design 1-10 adventures for your setting.
-word limit: 2000 words total for all the adventures. Structure them however you like.
-Adventures must be something that a party of players could feasibly individually finish in 4-8 hours each.

Ultimate Prize: Map of your setting?, We'll run the game in IRC.

---
Our goals: Attract new people to look at the site and stick around. And they'll actually receive a decent prize. I'm sure that some Cartographers will spill over, since it also would be good bragging rights, etc.

Alternatively, to make the "entrance cost" lower... it might be best to start with round 2 first or at least a scaled down round 1 that doesn't require a huge time investment. There's a lot to think about here.

As for judges- best case scenario is 2 people from the CBG + one person from the Industry who is famous enough to attract page clicks & views. Each round we give feedback.

Ah, maybe put the calendar where the setting showcase thing is now on the left and move fantaseum or the showcase to the right side.

That may make people more likely to use the calendar and to look at it for IRC games.

Also, maybe rename Play By Post roleplaying section into "Game Playing (Play by Post and IRC Games)"

So that we could put all the IRC threads in one centralized location...I always seem to find it confusing to remember where someone is going to put the thread advertising their game.

Quote from: Light DragonAlso, maybe rename Play By Post roleplaying section into "Game Playing (Play by Post and IRC Games)"

So that we could put all the IRC threads in one centralized location...I always seem to find it confusing to remember where someone is going to put the thread advertising their game.

That's a really excellent idea.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: Light DragonAlso, maybe rename Play By Post roleplaying section into "Game Playing (Play by Post and IRC Games)"

So that we could put all the IRC threads in one centralized location...I always seem to find it confusing to remember where someone is going to put the thread advertising their game.

That's a really excellent idea.

This is a really good idea, I'll go ahead and do that.

Thanks. Can you move the two new threads that I just started (see the recent threads feed).

Also: This should be moved: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?63994

Also, did you see my other comments/suggestions on the page before this one (in this thread)?

And if we're moving threads... would it be more approprate to put this in META http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?62761 since it's less about COGS site issues. And this one: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?63942

--

Moved the first two, the last one though I think is fine in the cogs section. Also I've seen every comment in this thread. Even if I don't speak on something I promise you I've been considering every post in this thread. The only ones I'm acting on at the moment though are ones that I can immediately put into action. Ones that require serious coding or work in general though (thread tags, setting showcase revival, etc) are for later, and we can always use more feedback on them anyways.

No problem and thank you again. Just wanted to make sure that my spamming the thread with a few posts in a row on the previous page didn't cause some to become lost in the shuffle.

For ease of use: here are the two threads I started that probably should now be in the RP section: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?120987.last and http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?120995.last

-

In the Forum Statistics, under the Top Repliers section, there is a person with no name listed as having made 39,924 posts. It only showed up recently and it bugs me!

Quote from: E_EIn the Forum Statistics, under the Top Repliers section, there is a person with no name listed as having made 39,924 posts. It only showed up recently and it bugs me!

Bugs me too but I don't have the slightest clue how to fix it.

I have a small request that I'm primarily mentioning because I think it'd be easy to implement-- I don't imagine it'd be used by many people besides me. I'd like to have the functionality of the {dice}{/dice} tags expanded so they can easily handle Fudge dice (the ones used for FATE. (There are sloppy workarounds if this can't be added, but it'd be nice if it could be-- especially if the dice script could reference and list the accompanying adjectives as well, so that instead of seeing results of "-2" and "+4", you'd see "Terrible (-2)" and "Great (+4)", etc.)

Fudge dice would be incredibly convenient.

I'll talk with Ish about where the bbcode functions are stored. :)

being able to attach office or open office files would be a great boon here

Quote from: LordVreeg the Unsleepingbeing able to attach office or open office files would be a great boon here

Agreed. In the meantime, though, I believe OpenOffice can make PDF files, which we can already attach.

Last chance to give any feedback on how the new site functions for you and any comments about what might improve it

New Site: http://www.thecbg.org/SMF

Wow, looks good Nomadic.

That's going to take some getting used to but I don't see any actual problems.

It looks pretty good.

We going with the same forum categories then?

I like the new shoutbox, much easier to read.

Quote from: beejazzIt looks pretty good.

We going with the same forum categories then?

The categories will be very similar. There are going to be a few changes as I combine and/or split up some categories to better streamline things. I will also be archiving a couple categories inside an archive section (the CeBeGia and Fantaseum sections for example). This is to simplify things and to archive old and unused (but possibly still read from time to time) areas.

looking good.

Looks great.  Nothing to complain about (that I wouldn't feel worse complaining about than just dealing with, cause they aren't real issues)

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumLooks great.  Nothing to complain about (that I wouldn't feel worse complaining about than just dealing with, cause they aren't real issues)

Feel free to tell me, I won't hold it against you. Depending on what it is I may or may not be able to fix it but I would love to work with you in figuring it out if possible. Even if it's just a stylistic thing, it will give me an idea of what works and doesn't.

Change scares me.

Get off my lawn!

(Looking good.)

Quote from: Nomadic

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumLooks great.  Nothing to complain about (that I wouldn't feel worse complaining about than just dealing with, cause they aren't real issues)

Feel free to tell me, I won't hold it against you. Depending on what it is I may or may not be able to fix it but I would love to work with you in figuring it out if possible. Even if it's just a stylistic thing, it will give me an idea of what works and doesn't.

Well, the "list" function takes slightly more work, requiring "[li][/li]" tags for each line instead of just "*".  Again, not a real issue.  Would feel really petty to make an issue of it.

I also just as a personal preference think a darker blue for the banner would be cool, from a "looks" point of view, even though the current blue is closer to what we have always had.

Actually, I thought of something else more substantive:  The posting interface has Font Size and Font Color buttons, but no actual FONT button.  Now, if I manually type in bb code for font=whatever it WORKS, but there isn't a button to press, and no list of fonts that are available.

I expected the Homebrews forum to be above the Campaign Elements and Design one

Yeah, the CBG's all about the Homebrews IMO. It offers more, but I'd say that's gotta be flashy.

Site looks good, some people might come up with the question; what does CBG mean, though. As it is now at least.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumActually, I thought of something else more substantive:  The posting interface has Font Size and Font Color buttons, but no actual FONT button.  Now, if I manually type in bb code for font=whatever it WORKS, but there isn't a button to press, and no list of fonts that are available.

Ah yes, I removed the font button (there was one) because it didn't seem to get enough use to rate it's own button (there are actually a number of bbcodes without buttons which I was going to create a guide for). If you guys think that you'll use the font bbcode enough to need a button I can of course put it back in. Let me know if so.

Quote from: Elven DoritosI expected the Homebrews forum to be above the Campaign Elements and Design one

That's just a result of how the forum transfer software works. I'll make a note though to make sure that I restore the order of the categories when we have the final transfer :)

Can we get a button for Strike throughs?

Quote from: Elemental_ElfCan we get a button for Strike throughs?

Isn't it already there?

In regards to fonts, I use the font-button pretty regularly, and know I would have use for one, especially one with a wider range of fonts than we have had so far.  (My experiments on the SMF site so far have been encouraging, in this regard)

More fonts and stuff are always nice but can probably be installed pretty easily later.

Actually internet fonts are largely limited to the "universal fonts" that all browsers recognize and IIRC SMF already has support for pretty much all of them. I'll look into re-integrating the font button though (it isn't a list mind you just a button that sticks in a font tag).

Since it isn't a list, will it still tell you the options when you hover over (like it does here)?

I have seen forums use other fonts before and when your computer or browser or whatever doesn't recognize it, they simply revert to your default. I couldn't begin to tell you how that works, though.

Actually, that makes me think of something odd -- The fancy fonted part of Vreeg's sig looks entirely different on my iPad than it does on my computer and my phone.

Quote from: Ninja D!Since it isn't a list, will it still tell you the options when you hover over (like it does here)?

I have seen forums use other fonts before and when your computer or browser or whatever doesn't recognize it, they simply revert to your default. I couldn't begin to tell you how that works, though.

Actually, that makes me think of something odd -- The fancy fonted part of Vreeg's sig looks entirely different on my iPad than it does on my computer and my phone.

No, all it does is put a font tag in. I could make a dropdown except I don't know all the fonts it supports and so wouldn't know what to put into the dropdown box. As for forums using other fonts when your browser doesn't recognize them that isn't the forum doing that, that's your browser reverting to a default. I'll see what I can do about finding the supported fonts.

Just a question:  This has probably been answered somewhere already, but when the shift happens, will the normal address HERE redirect to the 2.0 forums, or will we have to put in the "/SMF" (or just get a new bookmark).  Doesn't really matter either way, just curious.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumJust a question:  This has probably been answered somewhere already, but when the shift happens, will the normal address HERE redirect to the 2.0 forums, or will we have to put in the "/SMF" (or just get a new bookmark).  Doesn't really matter either way, just curious.

When the shift happens this forum will disappear (it will get archived and then wiped off the server) and be replaced by the new forums.

Edit: ok I added a font drop-down, I realized that there are really only 3 font families that are fully browser compatible (all browsers have them on install). Those being serif, sans-serif, and monospace. I added these 3 options, note that you can still do font=(any font you can think of) it's just that those on the list are the fonts that everyone will see when you use them (you can also use fonts inside these families like times for serif, but they will look largely the same as their family's font).

Will cbg 2 be more Android friendly?

Quote from: Elemental_ElfWill cbg 2 be more Android friendly?

I don't own an android (or any other smart phone for that matter) so I have no way of testing this. I'd love to make it so if possible but right now any attempt to do so would be largely me flailing around in the dark hoping I got it right :P

This CBG isn't bad on an Droid 1, with the exception of the front page.

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI also just as a personal preference think a darker blue for the banner would be cool, from a "looks" point of view, even though the current blue is closer to what we have always had.

I still have all the photoshop files for the new logo (the one on the wiki) and that banner if you guys are interested. :)

::sneaks back off somewhere::

Quote from: Ishmayl

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI also just as a personal preference think a darker blue for the banner would be cool, from a "looks" point of view, even though the current blue is closer to what we have always had.

I still have all the photoshop files for the new logo (the one on the wiki) and that banner if you guys are interested. :)
I SAW THAT!!!!  
::sneaks back off somewhere::

Quote from: Ishmayl

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI also just as a personal preference think a darker blue for the banner would be cool, from a "looks" point of view, even though the current blue is closer to what we have always had.

I still have all the photoshop files for the new logo (the one on the wiki) and that banner if you guys are interested. :)

::sneaks back off somewhere::

Good heavens man where have you been? Send me those files. :P

I found an oddity.

If you edit a post in which you made a die roll, even if you didn't touch the die roll code, the edited post comes with a big red message saying you altered the dice roll.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI found an oddity.

If you edit a post in which you made a die roll, even if you didn't touch the die roll code, the edited post comes with a big red message saying you altered the dice roll.

That's part of the dice plugin. The guy coded it for a larger, less trustworthy community. I could try to remove that but it'd take alot of searching around and will probably have to wait for later.

Not a problem. I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the issue.

Its easy enough to ignore :)

Quote from: Ishmayl

Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI also just as a personal preference think a darker blue for the banner would be cool, from a "looks" point of view, even though the current blue is closer to what we have always had.

I still have all the photoshop files for the new logo (the one on the wiki) and that banner if you guys are interested. :)

::sneaks back off somewhere::

I really like the logo on the wiki.  I think that would be awesome to have that as the main logo for the site.

seconded.

I wouldn't mind that, in fact I was of the same mind. However I emailed Brandon and he hasn't responded to my request for the photoshop files. Without them I can't modify the logo. Hence why I had to come up with something else. Of course now that I look at the wiki logo I think it wouldn't be too hard for me to pull off that effect.

I kind of like the new CBG logo on the site. Its colorful and happy.