The Campaign Builder's Guild

I'm not sure what I want to do with this, but I figured I would post it anyway. Essentially I have this incomplete vision in my head for a world with an extremely low-level of magic. I want to focus on the Tome of Battle disciplines, and remove spells and magical items from the game (other than legacy weapons, a few relics, and simple alchemy).

Of course that has led me to contemplate what kind of changes would have to be made to a world without magic in the D&D universe.

1. Monsters become much more substantial challenges with their assortment of DR, fast healing, and spell-like abilities, so they would have to be far more rare and exotic, or they would crush adventurers and settlements on the fringes of society. Most encounters would have to be based around humanoid opponents.(Basically CR is not so cut and dry without spells and magic items.)

2. Healing and conditions become much more difficult to overcome, but I figure that alchemists, herbalists, and apothecaries could step in a fill these roles. If healing were skill/craft based then every PC would have access to such things built right into their characters from the beginning. (Healing magic is no longer free; it is going to a regular expense that needs to be acounted for.)

3. The absence of divine magic changes the dynamic of religion in the game. Smaller pagan faiths (like a druid coven, or the worship of a singular patron deity) will have very little influence on the dynamic of the world; no more so than a local mayor, a band of brigands, and other small local adversaries, authorities, and NPCs. SO only those religions of significant social, political, economic, or military power with very large followings are even worth exploring, when it comes to their influence on the setting.

If any of you know have any suggestions, comments, or insight into other things I should account for in this type of low/no magic setting, please speak up and let me know.

Here is a little sample of a church I quickly wrote up, for a setting like this. Its very rough and short, but all I'm doing is brainstorming concepts at this point.

The Church of All Saints  

Though the nations of the world have numerous political, ethnic, cultural, and economic differences, there is one universal truth shared by all: The Church of All Saints. Over the last four centuries, the church and its missionaries and inquisitors have spread the gospel of truth, and purged the pagan faiths, sorcery, and monstrous creatures from the land. It is the ultimate belief of the church that all faiths to have come before them, were twisted and corrupted by the blasphemous work of demons and devils, and it is their ultimate goal to convert the unfaithful to their cause.

Essentially the Church of All Saints feels that the one true god has yet to be discovered. He who created all that is, the heavens, the world, the skies, and the fires below, is a powerful entity of unknown name and origin. It is he who is the only true god. The pagan gods, legends, and heroes of lore, have not been completely eradicated by the church. Many are embraced as prophets, seers, saints, and fables; others are portrayed as villains, demons, devils, and blasphemers. As the influence of the church expands so does their knowledge and understanding of theology, and the closer they come to the ultimate truth.  

The church derives its name from its practice of embracing the ancient deities, heroes, legends, and customs of the people whom they convert, and reinterpreting them as great saints, prophets, and parables. While many lands and peoples initially resist the will the church, the inquisitors gradually weed out the rebels, purge unholy taint from their lands, and mercilessly execute blasphemers. The missionaries of the church educate the youth, spread the new gospel, and through general acts of philanthropy and kindness win the hearts and souls of the people. Rarely has any vestige of the old pagan sorcery and beliefs (other than that which the church allows) lingered longer than a couple centuries after the Church of All Saints begins the conversion.

The Inquisition

The ongoing inquisition of the church has all but completely wiped out the practice of magic. While a handful of reclusive druids and covenants of witches continue wield the power of the mystical arts, the pervasive magic of the days of yore has long since passed. The church feels that magic is the tool of demons and false gods, and their inquisition has been extremely efficient in hunting them down, burning the wicked books and scrolls of the sorcerers and wizards, and purging the fiendish taint of magic from the land. The common man fears and reviles the sinful and dangerous power of magic, and they are quick to turn these blasphemers over to the inquisition, when they learn of their presence within the community.

The inquisitors have been equally effective at hunting the terrible monsters of the lands, and the magical beasts, dragons, aberrations, and other monstrous entities of the world have been exterminated or driven into isolated remote lands like the frozen wastes of the arctic, the inhospitable deserts of the south, deep into primordial forests and jungles, and into the caves and caverns of the underworld. Monstrous creatures are not unknown, but they have become extremely rare fabled creatures, rather than imminent threats to the civilized lands of man. The Inquisition prides themselves on their efficiency in theses endeavors, particularly the purge of the chimeras, and the Great Crusades that lead to the supposed eradication of the dragons.

The Missionaries

The church missions have been equally important to the successful expansion of the budding faith. The missionaries have traveled the world spreading the word and the gospel of the great church. They bring medicine, technology, and money to impoverished suffering people. The missionaries rebuild towns and villages ravaged by war. They treat the sick and injured, negotiate treaties between hostile peoples, and bring peace and prosperity to people and nations that have never known such things.

The progress of the missions has in recent years slowed to a complete crawl. Most of the lands that were open to their ideology and message have already been converted, and they have experienced substantial resistance in the more remote and untamed lands of the northern barbarians (where they have concentrated their efforts for the last 20 years). The resources of the church have been slowly siphoned away from the missions to build massive cathedrals and mosques in the major cities of the world, and to line the pockets of corrupt bishops back home. The once heralded missionaries of the church now seem to be struggling to retain their validity, and further their cause, in an increasingly corrupt and hierarchal bureaucracy.

I'm really not much for low magic settings, but this sounds pretty cool to me.  The inquisition and missionaries aren't exactly original ideas, but they still feel fresh when you write them.  I am wondering how the church would have managed to exterminate dragons without the use of magic, but I guess those details can be overlooked in the interest of encouraging what could be a very interesting project.  I look forward to more material, if you keep making it.

Quote from: Natural 20I'm really not much for low magic settings, but this sounds pretty cool to me.  The inquisition and missionaries aren't exactly original ideas, but they still feel fresh when you write them.  I am wondering how the church would have managed to exterminate dragons without the use of magic, but I guess those details can be overlooked in the interest of encouraging what could be a very interesting project.  I look forward to more material, if you keep making it.

This setting would be making full use of the Tome of Battle, and the inquisition would be loaded with Crusaders. Experienced crusaders in large numbers should have the power needed to take down dragons, or least to drive them off.

You are right that the concept is nothing new. This is just a brainstorming thread. Nothing here is meant to shake things up, or break new ground just yet. I'm just throwing out concepts, and hoping that in the process something interesting will come out of it. As for more material...as I come up with stuff, I'll toss it in here.

-Peace-

I think that this is an interesting take on the concept. You might want to check out the Pendragon RPG which has similarities, magic use being rare and if used is very costly to the wielder. I think you can reduce magic without eliminating it and it can make for a cool game.

QuoteYou might want to check out the Pendragon RPG which has similarities, magic use being rare and if used is very costly to the wielder.

Bleh.  I have never been a fan of this sort of thing.  

If I were you I would just cut down the spells available and retune the damage spells.

QuoteI think that this is an interesting take on the concept. You might want to check out the Pendragon RPG which has similarities, magic use being rare and if used is very costly to the wielder. I think you can reduce magic without eliminating it and it can make for a cool game.

I've played Pendragon, and I'm not interested in this approach. I don't want magic in the game. I want a few relics, legacy weapons, and some alchemy.  

QuoteIf I were you I would just cut down the spells available and retune the damage spells.

No spells wanted here. I'm looking to purge magic from the world, and make a high flying action adventure based on romance, swashbuckling, and tomb of battle goodies. I figure I'll throw in some intrigue, rogish villains, and Free Mason style secret societies, and things will turn into a setting.

QuoteI've played Pendragon, and I'm not interested in this approach. I don't want magic in the game. I want a few relics, legacy weapons, and some alchemy.

Check oot my Altvogge link for a good Alchemy skill.

Relics for healing?

Quote from: CYMRO, Brassica Brigadier

QuoteI've played Pendragon, and I'm not interested in this approach. I don't want magic in the game. I want a few relics, legacy weapons, and some alchemy.

Check oot my Altvogge link for a good Alchemy skill.

Relics for healing?

Relics like the holy grail, the lost ark, and various other holy objects from dead or opressed religions from a bygone age. Think Indiana Jones here.

I'll check out Altvogge for alchemy...didn't realize you had stuff in there for it.

-Thanks-

QuoteI'll check out Altvogge for alchemy...didn't realize you had stuff in there for it.

I did a whole new skill that does not require one to be a caster.  Like historical alchemy wanted to be.

QuoteRelics like the holy grail, the lost ark, and various other holy objects from dead or opressed religions from a bygone age. Think Indiana Jones here.

Tres cool.

You can also add minor relics that could aid in healing, like the bits and bones of saints.

"St. Vitus' ankle bone.  The one he danced on.  Only two marks!"
--Friar Tuck, Patrick Bergen's Robin Hood

Quote from: CYMRO, Brassica Brigadier

QuoteI'll check out Altvogge for alchemy...didn't realize you had stuff in there for it.

I did a whole new skill that does not require one to be a caster.  Like historical alchemy wanted to be.

QuoteRelics like the holy grail, the lost ark, and various other holy objects from dead or opressed religions from a bygone age. Think Indiana Jones here.

Tres cool.

You can also add minor relics that could aid in healing, like the bits and bones of saints.

"St. Vitus' ankle bone.  The one he danced on.  Only two marks!"
--Friar Tuck, Patrick Bergen's Robin Hood

Love the idea on the bones of saints! fantastic stuff!

I just checked out the Altvogge alchemy and I really like the names and flavor, but I think the DCs are just too high for a campaign without significant magical items and spells to boost your ability.
I'll probably cap the DCs around 30, and raise market values instead. I have no problem with something taking a while to make, but I want it to be possible.

Later today, I'll collect the alchemical items I have compiled thus far (outside of the obvious ones in the PHB), and post them.

For healing, you might consider using a VP/WP system; one of its strengths relative to a HP system is that unassisted healing works a lot faster. (As long as you're not taking wound damage, you recover from fights relatively quickly with natural rest only.) It decreases reliances on magical healing.

Quite frankly, I'd be very suspicious about things like curative herbalism and alchemy if I were attempting a project like this one. It's very easy to make that sort of thing identical to magic in every way but the name. I'd hate to see you purge magic from your setting, then reinstall half of the same magic (but with a fresh coat of alchemy-paint.)

One thing on my own list of things to work on is surgery and other types of advanced medicine, copied directly from the real world if you like. There's a lot of fun stuff you can find when you consider the days when butchers doubled as surgeons (because they were used to handling raw meat!), you washed your hands after an operation instead of before, whiskey was your only anesthetic, and so on.

Quote from: nastynateEssentially I have this incomplete vision in my head for a world with an extremely low-level of magic. I want to focus on the Tome of Battle disciplines, and remove spells and magical items from the game (other than legacy weapons, a few relics, and simple alchemy).

Of course that has led me to contemplate what kind of changes would have to be made to a world without magic in the D&D universe.

The absence of divine magic changes the dynamic of religion in the game. Smaller pagan faiths (like a druid coven, or the worship of a singular patron deity) will have very little influence on the dynamic of the world; no more so than a local mayor, a band of brigands, and other small local adversaries, authorities, and NPCs. SO only those religions of significant social, political, economic, or military power with very large followings are even worth exploring, when it comes to their influence on the setting.[/blockquote]
I disagree. Even a religious organization with only a handful of members can influence the entire world if, say, one of those members happened to be a famous artist or powerful politician. The fact that said individual's power stems from something outside of the small religious organization to which he belongs doesn't change the fact that he now has the ability to subtly influence the world in accordance with the principals of his obscure religion.

QuoteFor healing, you might consider using a VP/WP system; one of its strengths relative to a HP system is that unassisted healing works a lot faster. (As long as you're not taking wound damage, you recover from fights relatively quickly with natural rest only.) It decreases reliances on magical healing.

I could try that out, but its not the rate of healing that is the concern. D&D is balanced on a 4 encounter per day CR system, and without healing during or between thoese encounters the CRs are greatly effected.

QuoteQuite frankly, I'd be very suspicious about things like curative herbalism and alchemy if I were attempting a project like this one. It's very easy to make that sort of thing identical to magic in every way but the name. I'd hate to see you purge magic from your setting, then reinstall half of the same magic (but with a fresh coat of alchemy-paint.)

This is all about flavor. I'm not trying to cut magic because I have a problem with magic. In fact I have no problem changing a few spells or magical items into more flavorful alchemical or herbalist items. Fireball for example could be a potent form of alchemists' fire, and it would not bother me in the slightest. Heal could be an apothecary's potion that drops you into a comatose state for 8 hours, and you awaken fully restored. See what I mean? Certain effects that are integral to D&D can make this transition without hurting the concept; I don't mind slapping a new coat of paint on them if that's what it takes.

QuoteOne thing on my own list of things to work on is surgery and other types of advanced medicine, copied directly from the real world if you like. There's a lot of fun stuff you can find when you consider the days when butchers doubled as surgeons (because they were used to handling raw meat!), you washed your hands after an operation instead of before, whiskey was your only anesthetic, and so on.

This sounds great. I would be very interested in seeing posts about this if and when you get around to it.

QuoteYou could probably pull this off better with d20 Modern or d20 Past rules instead of D&D Core rules. The D&D Core relies heavily on magic, but those other two are balanced without it.

That is an option to explore...but then wouldn't Tome of Battle throw things out of wack in D20 past, just as much as removing magic from D&D? Besides I own D&D, but I do not own d20 Past, so I'd only go down that road if I can't make it work with D&D rules.

QuoteI disagree. Even a religious organization with only a handful of members can influence the entire world if, say, one of those members happened to be a famous artist or powerful politician. The fact that said individual's power stems from something outside of the small religious organization to which he belongs doesn't change the fact that he now has the ability to subtly influence the world in accordance with the principals of his obscure religion.

A religion's power stems from the size of its following, or its political, economic, or social influence...like I mentioned earlier. If a Pharoah (in the case of the Atan) or an Emperor (in the case of Christianity) throws his power and influence behind a religious movement, then it is no longer a small fry politically, and thus no longer falls into the fringe groups I was talking about.

Big powerful religions all start small, but once they become big and powerful, it becomes exponentially more difficult for small budding religions to expand and sieze greater power.

In D&D divine casters change this dynamic substantially, because they have far more individual power and obvious credibility (they work miracles!) than say the Jehovah's Witnesses, trying to chip at away at larger Christian faiths of today.

A druidic cult in D&D can be a regional power, even if they have no more than a few hundred followers, but in a world without magic, such a tiny group is meaningless.

I feel that I should concentrate on a few very large, influential, and well recognized religious groups that will play a prominent role in the setting, rather than worry about the totem gods of barbarian tribes. I won't have clerics, so the only religion worth thinking about is that which has a direct effect on a large portion of the world. Am I missing something, or is my logic somehow at fault in a way I don't yet see? Let me know.

Quote from: nastynateA druidic cult in D&D can be a regional power, even if they have no more than a few hundred followers, but in a world without magic, such a tiny group is meaningless.

I feel that I should concentrate on a few very large, influential, and well recognized religious groups that will play a prominent role in the setting, rather than worry about the totem gods of barbarian tribes. I won't have clerics, so the only religion worth thinking about is that which has a direct effect on a large portion of the world. Am I missing something, or is my logic somehow at fault in a way I don't yet see? Let me know.

It's not that the logic is unsound; I think it's possible you might be paying too much attention to the macrocosm and not enough to the microcosm. Missing the trees for the forest, as it were. You've correctly identified this as a matter of scale, but then tied your hands by asserting that only the largest scale is important.

You go ahead and state that a small cult can be a regional power. A regional power isn't a global power, but it's still a power; for the people in the communities where it holds sway, it can be much more real and relevant than any global Great Church. One of the forces large religions have to struggle against when expanding is that small religions have a lot of inertia in their communities, and that's going to make your druidic plantlords or barbarian totem gods (or whatever) very tenacious, even in the face of the Great Church.

I'm not saying small religions should be a priority, because in the grand scheme of things, in the macrocosm, they're not all that important (beyond a simple acknowledgement that opposing viewpoints to the Great Church do exist.) But I don't think it's wise or fair to just wave them away entirely, simply because they don't have magic-wielders among their ranks.

My two cents, of course.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: nastynateA druidic cult in D&D can be a regional power, even if they have no more than a few hundred followers, but in a world without magic, such a tiny group is meaningless.

I feel that I should concentrate on a few very large, influential, and well recognized religious groups that will play a prominent role in the setting, rather than worry about the totem gods of barbarian tribes. I won't have clerics, so the only religion worth thinking about is that which has a direct effect on a large portion of the world. Am I missing something, or is my logic somehow at fault in a way I don't yet see? Let me know.

It's not that the logic is unsound; I think it's possible you might be paying too much attention to the macrocosm and not enough to the microcosm. Missing the trees for the forest, as it were. You've correctly identified this as a matter of scale, but then tied your hands by asserting that only the largest scale is important.

You go ahead and state that a small cult can be a regional power. A regional power isn't a global power, but it's still a power; for the people in the communities where it holds sway, it can be much more real and relevant than any global Great Church. One of the forces large religions have to struggle against when expanding is that small religions have a lot of inertia in their communities, and that's going to make your druidic plantlords or barbarian totem gods (or whatever) very tenacious, even in the face of the Great Church.

I'm not saying small religions should be a priority, because in the grand scheme of things, in the macrocosm, they're not all that important (beyond a simple acknowledgement that opposing viewpoints to the Great Church do exist.) But I don't think it's wise or fair to just wave them away entirely, simply because they don't have magic-wielders among their ranks.

My two cents, of course.

Gotcha, understood and agreed. Those kind of local powers are not something to be ignored or swept under the rug when dealing with small areas in and around their area of influence, just like the local mayor, or the band of brigands, I spoke of previously. However in the braod sweeping conceptual stages of a setting, they are completely worthless to concetrate on. That is the stage I am currently at. I have only vague concepts thus far, and I recognize the need to address a few minor mechanical issues before delving in too deeply.

Low/No Magic entails adjustments that have to be dealt with before I jump in headlong and write up a whole world that will never work in the context of the game's actual mechanics. Luckily Tomb of Battle with its pseudo-magical power levels does make things much easier. The only things I really need to deal with are the loss of magical items, area of effect spells, and cure x/ remove x effects which are somewhat essential to character survival. This shouldn't be terribly difficult.

In that case, any preliminary thoughts on my suggested workarounds for the lack of magical healing?

I'm sure some kind of magic item replacement in the form of expanded masterwork gear. I don't really have a good system for that, but if you do, I wouldn't mind hearing about it for my own use.

As far as area of effect spells, I'm not so sure they're so necessary that a real workaround is necessary. Replace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

Anyway, there's always splash weapons via alchemy, catapults with Very Large Boulders, and the possibility of gunpowder and grenades for area-affect violence, if that's the sort of thing you're after.

QuoteIn that case, any preliminary thoughts on my suggested workarounds for the lack of magical healing?

I am not concerned with my apothecaries duplicating the effects of spells. This is about flavor, not reinventing the wheel. I dont want spellcasting because it doesn't fit my vision, but I have no problem repackaging some of the effects of spells in other more appropriate forms. I am very much interested in your surgery ideas though.

I'm thinking this setting would be much like the Ottoman Empire, but with wuxia style combat, Geber style alchemy (see the link below if you are unfamiliar), pirates, smugglers, thieves, califs, sultans, and a fading Byzantine influence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jabir_ibn_Hayyan (//hyperlinkurl)

QuoteI'm sure some kind of magic item replacement in the form of expanded masterwork gear. I don't really have a good system for that, but if you do, I wouldn't mind hearing about it for my own use.

I'm planning on using legacy weapons for this. I'll probably give PCs a free masterwork item at level one, which over time can become very powerful. "In the hands of skilled warrior, a sword is no mere sword, but an instrument that reflects his talents, abilities, passions, and power."

QuoteAs far as area of effect spells, I'm not so sure they're so necessary that a real workaround is necessary. Replace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

It becomes important when dealing with the threat of many substantially lower level enemies. Like an angry mob, or a band of highwaymen, and things like that. I don't need horrid wilting or anything incredibly powerful like that, but a few effective grenade-like weapons will be immensely valuable without a wizard in the party.

QuoteAnyway, there's always splash weapons via alchemy, catapults with Very Large Boulders, and the possibility of gunpowder and grenades for area-affect violence, if that's the sort of thing you're after.

Here are some of the alchemical items I have been brewing up. Irealize some of these are quite potent, but they need to replace potent magical effects. Any comments or suggestions are quite welcome.

Oh Cymro, How do those alchemical feats work in Altvogge? I didn't dig deep enough to find the specifics.

Acidic Blast Grenade: This brilliant green flask of acid can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. It explodes on impact in a 20-foot-radius burst, inflicting acid damage to all creatures within the area of effect. A creature struck directly receives no saving throw against the damage, but all other creatures within the area of effect take half damage on a successful DC 15 Reflex save. The potency of the acid varies from 1d6 to 10d6 points of damage, which is reflected in the market value.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp per die of damage, Weight: 1 lb.

Anti-Paralytic Unguent: When you apply this chalky white cream to the skin, it provides a character with a new saving throw against any paralyzing condition, with a +5 alchemical bonus to the saving throw. Even if the original effect did not permit a saving throw, the recipient still gets a Fortitude saving throw (though this saving throw has no alchemical bonus to the roll) to recover from the condition. A jar of this unguent has sufficient cream for five applications before it is exhausted. Applying the unguent to a creature is a full round action (obviously a paralyzed creature cannot apply the unguent to himself).

Profession (Herbalist), or Profession (Apothecary) check DC 20, Market Value: 100 gp. Weight: 1 lb. per jar.

Apothecaryâ,¬,,¢s Salve: This pasty substance is a viscous gray-white mixture of liquefied herbs and dissolved minerals. Pasted over the skin as a full round action, it is quickly absorbed and takes effect within 1d4 rounds. Once absorbed the miraculous slave removes all of the following conditions currently afflicting the character: blinded, deafened, energy drained, exhausted, fatigued, nauseated, or sickened. A bottle of this salve contains only enough for a single dose.

Profession (Apothecary) check DC 25, Market Value: 300 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per bottle.

Boiling Blood: This crimson red fluid bubbles and quickly evaporates when exposed to the air. Kept in one-ounce corked vials, this alchemical fluid causes a surge of heat within the imbiber that causes his skin to flush, and terrible burning pain to course through his veins causing 2 points of fire damage each round at the beginning of his turn. However in addition to this terrible burning sensation, the imbiber also gains a +4 alchemical bonus to his Strength. The duration of the effects of Boiling Blood is 4 rounds.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 20, Market Value: 20 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Boiling Blood (Greater): This crimson red fluid bubbles and quickly evaporates when exposed to the air. Kept in one-ounce corked vials, this alchemical fluid causes a surge of heat within the imbiber that causes his skin to flush, and terrible burning pain to course through his veins causing 4 points of fire damage each round at the beginning of his turn. However in addition to this terrible burning sensation, the imbiber also gains a +8 alchemical bonus to his Strength. The duration of the effects of Greater Boiling Blood is 4 rounds.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Fire Snuff: This ashen powder, when cast upon a small fire such as a lit torch or a small campfire automatically puts it out. It also puts out alchemists fire with one application. A character that is on fire can have his flames immediately extinguished if he or a companion casts a dose of fire snuff upon him. In addition, fire snuff can injure fire elementals, causing them 1d8 damage if hit with a ranged touch attack. Fire snuff has no effect on lava or magma based creatures, or ones that are merely hot rather than flaming.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 15. Market Value: 10 gp. Weight: 1 lb. per dose.

Flash Grenade: You can throw this stone as a ranged attack with a range increment of 20 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), it creates a blinding flash. Each creature within a 10-foot-radius spread must make a DC 15 Fortitude save or be blinded for 1 hour.  A blinded character takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, loses his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), moves at half speed, and takes a -4 penalty on Search checks and on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Spot checks) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) to the blinded character.

Since you donâ,¬,,¢t need to hit a specific target, you can simply aim at a particular 5-foot square. Treat the target square as AC 5.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 20 to create. Market Value: 30 gp each. Weight: 1 lb.

Glow Chalk: This alchemical chalk makes it easy to read writings and markings in the dark. Markings made with glow chalk will glow indefinitely. It is especially useful to miners and adventurers to leave messages for each other or leave direction markings on dungeon walls, but this also makes it easy for others to follow you. Glow chalk provides no useful amount of illumination.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 15, Market Value: 25 gp per stick. Weight: 2 oz. per stick.

Incendiary Grenade: This brilliant orange flask of incendiary oil can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. It explodes on impact in a 20-foot-radius burst, inflicting fire damage to all creatures within the area of effect. A creature struck directly receives no saving throw against the damage, but all other creatures within the area of effect take half damage on a successful DC 15 Reflex save. The potency of the flames varies from 1d6 to 10d6 points of damage, which is reflected in the market value.

Craft (Alchemy) DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp per die of damage, Weight: 1 lb.

Purifier Drops: One dose of this transparent liquid clears 1 gallon of water of all diseases and poisons. It is, in itself, tasteless but it ruins the flavor of other drinks such as beer, wine, milk, or juice. A character may sneak this into his drink at a formal occasion with a DC 10 Sleight of Hand check. When doing this under close observation, this check is opposed by the observerâ,¬,,¢s Spot check.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 50 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per vial.

Quicksilver: This metallic liquid grants the imbiber supernatural quickness, reflexes, and reaction time. Quicksilver is incredibly toxic however, and when the effects subside the consumer suffers painful and debilitating ability damage. Once consumed the imbiber gains a +30 alchemical bonus to speed and a +2 alchemical bonus to attack rolls, initiative, and reflex saves for 1 minute (10 rounds). When the effects subside, the imbiber suffers 1d4 points of Dexterity damage.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 75 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per flask.

The Elixir of Vitality: This potent concoction is a vibrant blue fluid stored in a one-ounce corked vial with phenomenal healing power. When consumed the imbiber immediately heals a number of hit points equal to one full day of bed rest (2 hp per character level, and 2 points of ability damage per ability score).

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) DC 20, Market Value: 20 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

The Elixir of Vitality (Greater): This potent concoction is a vibrant blue fluid stored in a one-ounce corked vial with phenomenal healing power. When consumed the imbiber immediately heals a number of hit points equal to two full days of bed rest (4 hp per character level, and 4 points of ability damage per ability score).

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp, Weight: 1 oz.

Rejuvenation Draught: Imbibing a vial of this cool green solution immediately causes the character to fall into a comatose state for 8 hours, during which he is unconscious, helpless, and cannot be awakened. After this he wakes, he is healed of 100 points of damage and is cured of any of the following conditions: ability damage, blindness, confusion, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. This catatonic state uses up a lot of metabolic resources and after waking, the character is considered to have missed one full dayâ,¬,,¢s worth of meals, and is ravenously hungry.

Craft (Alchemy) or Profession (Apothecary) check DC 30, Market Value: 500 gp. Weight: 1 oz.

Sensory Amplification Draught: A flask of this thick, viscous, black fluid smells like licorice and tar, and choking it down is terribly unpleasent, but the effects are remarkable and completely counter to those expected. The imbiber gains preternatural senses, a keen sense of smell, acute vision, and phenomenal hearing. Once consumed the imbiber gains a +4 alchemical bonus to Listen and Spot checks, the scent ability, blindsight with a 30 foot range, and low-light vision for 1 hour.

Craft (Alchemy) check DC 25, Market Value: 100 gp. Weight: 1 oz. per flask.

These are some friggin' awesome items.

Boiling blood?

Sweet...

Thanks...I thought it was pretty cool too.

QuoteOh Cymro, How do those alchemical feats work in Altvogge? I didn't dig deep enough to find the specifics.

You take the feat, Philosophy of Alchemy, and then you are "trained" in the tradition of basic alchemy.  This allows you to undertake any Primal or Master rankalchemical processes.

By taking the Philosophy of Essence Purity Feat, you can then undertake the Royal Road processes.  These also require an upgraded crucible.

The last feat,   Philosophy of Immortality, is required to attempt to create the Philosopher's Stone, and the Elixir of Life.  And, again an upgraded crucible is required.



PHILOSOPHY OF ALCHEMY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Intelligence 12, Wisdom 12, Charisma 12.
Benefit: Your study of this esoteric art allows you to add Craft (Alchemy) to your list of class skills.
Normal: Without this feat, you cannot access Craft (Alchemy) as a class skill.
 
PHILOSOPHY OF ESSENCE PURITY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Philosophy of Alchemy. Crafted at least one of every type of Primal and Master Ranked Alchemic items
Benefit: Your practical applications of the philosophies of alchemy allow you to begin crafting the series of Royal road alchemic vials.
Normal: Without this feat, the Royal Road is closed to you.
 
PHILOSOPHY OF IMMORTALITY [GENERAL]
Prerequisite: Philosophy of Essence Purity. You must have crafted and ingested the full series of Royal Road vials.
Benefit: You have now prepared yourself to create the Philosopher's Stone, and achieve immortality.
Normal: Without this feat, it is impossible to craft the Philosopher's Stone or the Elixir of Life.

Sweet! Thank you very much. So essentially you have three levels of alchemy, each requiring a more potent feat and crucible to make alchemical items that fall within their range of power. (correct?)

Where would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...

BTW: I plan to do the same kind of thing with Profession (Herbalist) and Profession (Apothecary). Sort of like the wizard/druid/cleric division in magic.

Thanks for the help Cymro. Much obliged!

Quote from: nastynateSweet! Thank you very much. So essentially you have three levels of alchemy, each requiring a more potent feat and crucible to make alchemical items that fall within their range of power. (correct?)

Where would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...


Thanks for the help Cymro. Much obliged!

Correct.

QuoteWhere would you rank the items I've got in this thread? Probably within the Essence of Purity, I would think...

I would rank them:

Acidic Blast Grenade: PRIMAL
Anti-Paralytic Unguent: MASTER
Apothecaryâ,¬,,¢s Salve: MASTER
Boiling Blood: Akin to ROYAL ROAD, requiring the same Feat, just not part of the Royal Road process, and so not the upgraded crucible.
Boiling Blood (Greater): Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Fire Snuff: PRIMAL
Flash Grenade: MASTER
Glow Chalk: PRIMAL
Incendiary Grenade: MASTER
Purifier Drops: PRIMAL
Quicksilver: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
The Elixir of Vitality: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
The Elixir of Vitality (Greater): Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Rejuvenation Draught: Akin to ROYAL ROAD
Sensory Amplification Draught: Akin to ROYAL ROAD

QuoteBTW: I plan to do the same kind of thing with Profession (Herbalist) and Profession (Apothecary). Sort of like the wizard/druid/cleric division in magic.

In the second Altvogge book, in preparation still, I have a class of plants known as defilants, which will be OGC.  I will post them in the Altvogge thread shortly.  DANGEROUS stuff!!!

Apothecary sounds interesting.  How will it differ from the Herbalist?  Seems there would be much cross-over.

Quote from: CYMRO of the TRUE Cabbage CabalCheck oot my Altvogge link for a good Alchemy skill.

Very nice.  I think my players might kill me if I introduced any more houserules, but I'm still impressed.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonReplace fireball salvos with screaming, bloody skirmishes, and you've reintroduced a truly personal, caring aspect of combat that I've really missed: when someone kills you with a sword, you get the sense that they really mean it. Magical carnage is so impersonal.

If I put humorous quotations in my signature, this would have to go there.

Wow. Just plain wow.