EDIT: This is the Cold War Gone Warm (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?13427)'s discussion thread. The information that was previously found here was updated and put into the setting thread.
EDIT: Map moved to setting thread.
QuoteBiological, chemical, and radiological weapons would play a major role. It is known that the former two were researched secretly and illegally for most of the Cold War. Knowledge of the latter one was easy to come by, and arguably eaiser to manufacture, with both sides' production of nuclear weapons.
Soviet Cold War Doctrine was explicit about their willingness to use chemical weapons first, but to use nuclear weapons only in retaliation for a nuclear attack. And to "never" use biological weapons.
NATO Cold War Doctrine was explicit about our willingness to use nuclear weapons first, but to use chemical weapons only in retaliation for a chemical attack. And to "never" use biological weapons.
QuoteVeitnam expanded fully into Laos and Cambodia, and was also a ceasefireless stalemate.
And why is China allowing this? Remember that the Chinese-Vietnam conflicts of the '70 were bloody beyond belief.
QuoteIn Veitnam, the Tet Offensive would have been seen as the US/South Korean victory that it was, and Nixon would not have had to back down.
???
So the idea is that the U.S.S.R. is still a super-power and a threat, that the "cold war" never ended? Gimme a high-five for that Fallout style.
Quote from: CYMRO of the TRUE Cabbage CabalQuoteVietnam expanded fully into Laos and Cambodia, and was also a ceasefireless stalemate.
And why is China allowing this? Remember that the Chinese-Vietnam conflicts of the '70 were bloody beyond belief.
QuoteIn Vietnam, the Tet Offensive would have been seen as the US/South Vietnamese victory that it was, and Nixon would not have had to back down.
???[/quote]
You never saw "Korea" in there... I didn't get mixed up... I have no clue what you're talking about. I also didn't spell Vietnam wrong in every single case, either.
Quote from: Velox121So the idea is that the U.S.S.R. is still a super-power and a threat, that the "cold war" never ended? Gimme a high-five for that Fallout style.
Just remember, nothing nuclear has gone on. Only conventional engagements. (I never played Fallout, but I'll assume there was some kind of nuclear holocaust thing going on.)
I altered the map just a little bit.
Japan and Russia have always had different views as to who owns the Kuril Islands (unfortunately not visible on the map), and since they fought at the turn of the 20th Century (not for the islands specificially), I thought it would be interesting to add a minor conflict there.
You can expect an actual timeline sometime later.
Good fun! :D
QuoteI wrote this up in like ten miuntes, so there are some (probably a lot) of holes. The statistics I found said the total US deaths (not casualties) were more than casulaties on both sides of the Sino-Vietnamese War.
American casualties in Vietnam are estimated at around 58,000 for the entire period of that war.
The figures for the February, 1979, Sino-Vietnamese episode, the most notable but not the only one in the '70s, are 80,000 to 100,000 total.
The border raids that continued into the early '90s claimed an additional 100,000 estimated civilian and military casualties, but this number is
really hard to confirm.
A lot of this conflict was PRC's way of distracting Vietnam from their Cambodian objectives, and secondarily to reduce Russia's influence in that sphere.
QuoteNot only would the People's Republic of China forces have routed the Republic of China, but before the Republic of China had time to establish itself, it would have been destroyed.
As a longstanding proponent of the One China policy, I heartily support this historical deviation.
Death to Chang Ki Chek! He was a traitor to Dr. Sun's dream.
Have you ever played or seen "Twilight 2000"?
Also it's an interesting idea...more or less what you're talking about is playing out WWIII. The following novels: "The War in 2020" "Red Army" "Red Storm Rising" "Red Phoenix" all have intersting ideas about that sort of thing.
Never have. If I have time, I might get around to reading/seeing/playing these, but I doubt it.
I was doing some more research, and came across some stuff.
Laos and Vietnam were friends. Cambodia and China were friends. Neither group played well with the other.
Expect some more stuff up soon.
QuoteJapan, who has rewritten their Constitution, handles much of the peacekeeping efforts in South East Asia, along with a massive UN force.
Considering the furor over Koizumi's visits to the Yasukuni Shrine, it seems illogical that China, North Korea, Myanmar, and others would go nuclear if Japan ever even flexed a military muscle again in the region.
Quote from: CYMROConsidering the furor over Koizumi's visits to the Yasukuni Shrine, it seems illogical that China, North Korea, Myanmar, and others would go nuclear if Japan ever even flexed a military muscle again in the region.
I'm not sure I understand this. When you say, "go nuclear", are you refering to the proposed Sino-Indochinese Civil War I made up, or the capability for nuclear weapons in those countries, or something else?
I mean go all Librarian poo. Go Bursar.
Go nuts. Start heaving missiles/bombs/armies because of the deepseated cultural fear a militaristic Japan holds for this part of the world.
"never again" is the Chinese doctrine on Japanese military build-up, is it not? Ditto for both Koreas, and plenty of other nations in the region.
A change in the Japanese constitution is casus belli for WW3 to most of their former Asian victims.
If it was like the modern proposed change, in that the "offensive" actions can only be peacekeeping actions, would that suffice? Even with their current Constitution Japan could take out many of said countries (with the possible exception of China).
I don't think that if both South Korea and Japan will ever come to blows, seen as they have the United States as a mediator. Don't get me wrong, most Koreans I know (all from the South) strongly dislike Japan but I think that those two are reasonable enough not to go at it. In my opinion, it would end in a stalemate. Both S. Korea and Japan have highly advance militaries just sitting around with (almost) nothing to do.
Most of their other victims have their own problems to deal with, and many can't (or refuse to) work with each other. For example, North Korea is essentially broke, and has its own problems with South Korea. Its also too proud to accept aid from China.
In the context of tCWGW, remeber that there is a Civil War going on in Indochina (involving China), and that North and South Korea have never stopped fighting (also partially involving China). In short, all the other countries have enough to deal with as it is, and can't really afford to stretch themselves any thinner.
This goes for the US, the UN, and the USSR as well.
May I ask a silly question?
What rules are you pondering using? Is this a strictly d20 Modern setting, or are you going to be working your own mechanics?
~ElDo
As core d20 Modern as possible. There might be a few minor things here and there, but nothing major.