We haven't had a nice general roleplaying thread in awhile so lets crack an ice cold one open again and have a bit of the good ole cbg roundtable discussion.
So I think something anyone who has ever DM'd in earnest has run into is the issue of players having trouble feeling their characters mortality. Ultimately of course you can't truly make them feel that (short of holding up a gun and telling them that when their character dies so do they :P ). This does make me recall with some amused fondness a one shot I played in where the DM said everybody only got one chance to play, when a character died their player was out. In all seriousness though it's a difficult thing to simulate for your players. How do you make them fear for their characters lives?
I've had some success in the past in more horror oriented sessions through the use of certain tactics to freak the players out and by extension make them afraid for their characters in general. Ironically the best success I've ever had was by not putting their characters in danger but offering them protection from danger. In one modern game I DM'd I included some simple custom cover rules where appropriate items (overturned tables, doors, walls, cars, etc) would stop or slow down attacks by giving a buffer of hp that the attack had to go through to reach the person behind the item. Ironically this heightened the tension during fights (especially gunfights) as players valued the bonus from cover so much that they dashed for it when possible and felt naked without it. During those scenes it was wonderful to see them actually give up attacks in favor of getting into cover or freak out when they were out in the open getting shot at.
As a DM I think it is so satisfying to see your players immersed in the game that way and I was curious if any of you had stumbled across ways to get your players to really feel the danger their characters are in instead of just charging the enemy every time because they feel their character is invincible.
My group operates under the Rincewind Law: if you ever acknowledge (or make plain by your actions) the fact that I can fudge any roll I want, I will kill your character dead stone dead. But generally speaking I don't want my players to fear for their characters' lives. When that happens they get anxious, snarky and argumentative and before you know it somebody's got to get punched.
What I do instead is make the first play session about clearly defining all the significant relationships, dependencies, aspirations and personal stakes of the PCs. We make short lists of characters who would take up a given PC's mantle in the event of their death; the map of desires and relationships will determine the broader consequences of such a death (such as the heir PC losing their title because their spouse, the first PC, died dishonourably).
This way, when a PC is confronted with danger the metagame severity of PC death is diminished while the in-game severity can be pretty brutal, but in a compelling way. They won't want the PC to die, but maybe the story gets cooler if they do.
That's a pretty good way of doing it, I say.
M.
First of all, sometimes you WANT your players to feel invulnerable. Who would play a Conanesque S&S game if their barbarian heroes were likely to be hewed down by the first band of mooks they came to? No, you want those mighty-thewed warriors charging headlong and heedless onto their enemies spears.
However, when I do want mortality to be present, I usually just do it by making it, rules-wise, easier for the PCs to take damage, more difficult for them to heal damage, have them gain HP (or equivalent) slower than normal, and various other increased-lethality house rules.
Obviously, with skill, it is possible to build a very danger-laden atmosphere purely through your GMing style, but I think, to players, nothing creates that sense as strongly as suddenly finding yourself on 1 HP. Next encounter, that player is going to be VERY cautious, no matter what they come up against.
Hah! I read the title as "Roleplaying Morality," and thought "Wow, I've never seen a thread derailed so fast!"
I currently DM in a game where the players have a lot of hit points and are generally pretty hard to kill, but they like that because, to them, it's fun. That's not to say the threat of death isn't present, but they don't always have to fear wading into a group of armed mooks and roundhouse kicking them all into submission.
In order to mitigate this sense of invulnerability, I actually don't often target their hit points as a means of instilling the presence and threat of death. Sure, sometimes when the Big Bad comes out with his massive fiery hammer of doom they're gonna take some serious damage and, yeah, they could die, but those fights are saved for more climactic moments (which aren't that infrequent, but far fewer than the standard encounter). Hell, even in the standard encounter they could die if they aren't smart. But when I really want to get them scared or instill a feeling of death, I don't usually threaten them with death; I target their backstories! And, frankly, they absolutely love it.
When my players have a beloved mentor, loved one, child, etc., it's only fuel for the feeding fire that is the story. The Mary Jane to their Spiderman, if you will. Now, that's not to say they're constantly being captured or held hostage; that would get old fast, and all the roleplaying relationship between the PC and the NPC would quickly dissolve. I would never want that. But when utilized at the right moment, it can be awesome and totally fear inspiring in a player. Yes, they are fearing death, not in their character but in something that is a part of their character; something that helped make their character who they are now. The best part is that either way, the story grows tenfold. So-and-so is saved and the relationship between the two grows exponentially. So-and-so dies, and the PC has to decide whether he lets his sorrow fuel his vengeance and if he grows darker in his pursuit, or is he capable of moving on despite his terrible, troublesome past? Perhaps a similar situation arises where he is asked to save an NPC's loved one and he accepts, hoping to save someone else from his own fate.
Or I can get a sense of mortality from having them cross some gaping chasm or something with lava, I dunno. They fall, they're dead. Gone. Forever. It's unbelievably intense in these situations, where one slip could lead to that characters death (for what its worth, a single failed roll will never kill anyone in my campaigns, but a series of such rolls certainly would. The first slip they might have just broken a handhold, the second roll maybe they fell a bit and then managed to grab hold again. The third roll, they fall, unless a PC can make his roll to grab onto them or toss a rope, if he's in reach). I want to emphasize the team when we play, and how being a team keeps them alive.
I also don't like resurrection magic. If it exists, it needs to be extremely costly and/or extremely rare. When someone dies, they die. I don't want them coming back; it, in my opinion, breaks the immersion. I think death is an excellent tool to enhance and enrich story. That alone keeps my players from going totally hog wild and crazy in combats; they always keep a careful eye out, even with their massive hit points.
When all else fails, Rocks fall, everyone dies. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies) :p
M.
Quote from: Cancerous CheWhen all else fails, Rocks fall, everyone dies. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RocksFallEveryoneDies) :p
M.
NOOOOOOOOOOO (http://www.nooooooooooooooo.com/)
EDIT: I'll let you decide as to whether that "NO" was for rocks falling, or the link to TvTropes.
I think different game systems naturally produce a different mindset. D&D doesn't lend itself to players feeling as mortal as some other systems do, and sometimes, even switching systems won't do the trick if players have been playing nothing but D&D for a while.
I am reminded of a horror game I ran. The horror genre can, when used right, really instill a sense of mortality in your characters as that's a big part of what horror is about. It was a simple issue of getting the group to believe that the monster eating the villagers was a particular nasty thing and then when the real monster shows up and eats the smaller beast they were fighting (that had almost killed them on several occasions) while they were deep underground. It triggered a real "oh crap oh crap oh crap" moment for them. Normally when faced with a bad guy the default PC response is "stab it until gold pieces come out". Seeing your big bad get eaten by something bigger and badder though (and after a tough fight with said big bad where they almost died) tends to make players put survival over shinies. They ultimately did defeat the real villain of the quest but they were really timid and careful about how they went about things after their first encounter.
Oh and btw, this was done in DnD (one of the few times that me and my group used vanilla DnD actually)
Quote from: NomadicNormally when faced with a bad guy the default PC response is "stab it until gold pieces come out".
Love this line. :D
Me too. That should be the site motto.
M.
I find that it holds true in almost all cases. One must factor in the preconceived notions that most PCs have in games or you'll find yourself caught off guard when the party bard tries to seduce the bar wench just because he can.
When I give out advice for campaign design, the 'level of mortaility' is a term I use a lot.
In some genre emulation games, too much mortality is a handicap. Also, one must know one's players as to how the threat of PC death affects them.
I just got in from the airport or I'd post more,
But I will say that the New Legion is taking after the SIG guys and creating backup characters. that should tell you something right there.