The Campaign Builder's Guild

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[ooc]This is a discussion thread relating to the community world of Cebexia (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17381.0). Said setting is a â,¬Å"community worldâ,¬Â in the sense that it is being built based on content added to The Recycle Bin (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17119.0) by many different members of the CBG community.[/ooc]

[ic=What's in a Name?]Long-time CBG members (or those bothering to meander over to lesser-used CBG forums) may have already noticed the similarity between the names of Cebexia and the older campaign setting, Cebegia. This similarity is intentional.

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Hujjah! Praises be to whoever thought of this...

...wait. Let's get some more in that recycling bin, too. Just to be safe.

Two questions, before I crash for the night:

1) Are you going to contiune drawing from new material added to the bin, or do you have all you need

2) Can you tell us what ideas you are drawing from where, to satisfy curious minds?

That's all. Looks great so far, I can't wait to see more. :)

Also, Remember this?
http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?989.0

Quote from: Dementia X1) Are you going to contiune drawing from new material added to the bin, or do you have all you need

2) Can you tell us what ideas you are drawing from where, to satisfy curious minds?[/quote]
Right now, the first few bits of content are 100% original. As I add more stuff, it should be relatively easy to see how Cebexia content relates to Recycle Bin content. (Everything I put in Cebexia will either be content created by me, content specifically donated to the Recycle Bin, or suggestions appearing in this discussion thread.) Of course, I'll gladly answer questions about where specific ideas came from if it isn't immeditely obvious.

@beejazz: I haven't forgotten the old Community World thread. (In fact, if the Community World forum hadn't have been renamed after one specific community world, I would even have posted Cebexia right over there next to good old Cebegia). And if anyone wants to add their Community World suggestions to the Recycle Bin, I'll definately do my best to cannibalize those as well.

Also, are you going into mechanics, or are you leaving that mostly open.

It'd be cool (if alot of work) to have things statted as they would appear in D20, GURPS, and (when we get it done) the new system. Just a thought.

Fascinating idea. I'd like to see where this goes.

On Ishmael: is this a deliberate OOC-reference? Will there be more such references? That would be totally cool.

Túrin

Quote from: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?10736DivSet[/url]), but they are not going to be a defining feature of the setting.

So if our stuff is used do we get credit?

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawSo if our stuff is used do we get credit?

When I write up the copyright notice, I'm going to list the entire Campaign Builders' Guild as the Cebexia copyright holder (the way The Game Mechanics and Green Ronin Publishing are listed as copyright holders on many of their products instead of each of their individual members). So every member of the CBG will be getting credit in respect to the copyright.

And since this is the second inquiry into information about contributors and source material, I'll also be adding a hyperlinked list of Recycle Bin contributors whose material I've used near the top of the main thread. So, short answer: yes, you'll get credit.

EDIT: As an aside, I shall only credit myself as an editor, not as the creator of the setting.

Quote from: Epic Meepo

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawSo if our stuff is used do we get credit?

I actually meant credit in the sense that you'd say I came up with it.  I don't really care about copyright, since I'm posting on a public forum.  I just want someone to be able to tell me that something I created was cool.

Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawI just want someone to be able to tell me that something I created was cool.

EDIT: Actually, since I'm using {ic} blocks to present Cebexia, it should be relatively easy to keep track of which contributions were used in which {ic} blocks. With that in mind, I think I'll just mention the names of contributors to a given {ic} block immediately following that block.

Um... see above question?
Are things being statted out in any system(s)? If so which?

Quote from: beejazzUm... see above question?

Are things being statted out in any system(s)? If so which?[/quote]
Weeks or months from now: who knows? In the immediate future: whenever possible, 100% fluff. No stats, no magic system, no alignment tendencies; nothing. First, I want to assemble a campaign world that feels real and exciting. Only later will I worry about statting stuff out.

Of course, you're welcome to stat stuff out in any way you choose in an unofficial capacity. Just be aware that game mechanics will likely not be considered for inclusion in the main thread for some time to come.

Hell, I'll take charge in statting things out in the new system. We should use a fairly flexible approach in D20, and I may even learn GURPS if that would prove useful (or is GURPS not something we can publish stuff for?)...

Anyway, having one dude in charge as opposed to chaotic democracy is one thing, but I volunteer for underling duty wherever I happen to be useful.

Have at it in the new system and GURPS. I'm fairly sure I won't be doing any work in those areas, even when it comes time for crunch. But be aware that d20 stats made this early might end up being overruled at some point in the future.

Just added to the main Cebexia thread: "The Powers that Were," an origin myth for Cebexia adapted from material by SilvercatMoonpaw.

EDIT: And apparently, the CBG database likes the update; that post just single-handedly upped my Halloween Rating from Chucky to Devil's Reject.

I like both the original story and its adaptation. Good work! Let's hope all your adaptations will be this good.

Will you also use this as the origin of lycanthropes? Will you also play up the conflict between the People and the Beasts?

Túrin

Good work on adapting the God War of Sasam to Cebexia.  Actually, it's better than my version.

@SilvercatMoonpaw: Don't sell yourself short. Your version was really cool. That's why it was the first thing I adapted to Cebexia.

Quote from: TurinWill you also use this as the origin of lycanthropes? Will you also play up the conflict between the People and the Beasts?

I'll probably use it as the origin of lycanthropes, though I'm thinking of changing the lycanthrope theme to make even true lycanthropy more of an unwanted side effect than a voluntarily-adopted blessing (though many true lycanthropes have embraced their nature).

As for the conflict between People and Beasts, the actual open violence subsided when the elder gods were banished. However, I'm going to include beast-like humanoids as a significant ethnic group, and there will be some racial tension between them and other, less-beastly groups.

Just added to the main Cebexia thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17381.0): "The Powers that Be," an overveiw of modern day religion on Cebexia, and "The Powers Yet Unseen," a doomsday prophecy adapted from material by Salacious Angel.

Nice. The prophecy sounds very much like modern industrial society developing and in doing so destroying the world it is built on. Interesting idea, Salacious Angel.

Where did you get the phrase "the age that the People are free to find enlightenment" from, Epic Meepo? Was it in Angel's original material? It reminds me of a similar historical division made by some buddhists, that also speaks of the teachings of the Buddha being forgotten over time.

Túrin

Quote from: TúrinThe prophecy sounds very much like modern industrial society developing and in doing so destroying the world it is built on. Interesting idea, Salacious Angel.

Where did you get the phrase "the age that the People are free to find enlightenment" from, Epic Meepo? Was it in Angel's original material?[/quote]
Hmm... That should probably be "the age in which" not the "the age that." I'll have to go back and fix that.

But to answer the question, that phrase was based on one of SilvercatMoonpaw's themes. In her story about the trapping of the gods, all dieties are banished to a false reality, not just one race of gods. And only when all deities are banished are mortals able to become spiritual beings instead of devisively religious ones.

(Of course, politicized religion still exists on Cebexia, so the adapted story departs from the original. But I still wanted to convey the fact that the elder gods stiffled the spiritual growth of the mortal races. The elder gods were about control and sacrifice instead of enlightenment. Hence the phrase you mention.)

Oooh...

Quote from: Image
(//../../e107_files/public/1161891351_27_FT17379_cebexiancosmology_.png) (//../../e107_files/public/1161891351_27_FT17379_cebexiancosmology.png)
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Just added to the main Cebexia thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17381.0): the first part of "Planes of Existence," an overveiw of Cebexian cosmology.

I'm not entirely satisfied with the way in which the information is organized, so any suggestions as to how better to present the material in "Planes of Existence" would be appreciated. Also, I haven't yet managed to get the thread to display the cosmological map at its full size; I'm not sure what I need to do differently with that to make that work correctly.

Still looking good. I'm excited to see whatever you'll pull out of the hat next.
Túrin

Let's get some new shit in the recycling thread.
I don't have much to offer, but I'm sure someone out there does!

Quote from: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17119The Recycle Bin[/url]!

In the mean time, "Planes of Existence" on the main thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17381) has been undated to include elements, energy, and outsiders.

I made an executive decision to go for void plus the four classical elements as the Five Elements mainly because they're an amusing metaphor for states of matter/energy in real world physics (vacuum, plasma, vapor, liquid, solid). I also threw the Animus into the mix to stir things up. (And if you're a fan of steampunk, pay close attention to the description of elemental fire; you'll be seeing phlogiston again in the future.)

You didn't list the source material for your cosmological post.

Túrin

Quote from: TúrinYou didn't list the source material for your cosmological post.

Question:[/b] Would it help if I credited myself at the end of posts I wrote without consulting any source material? That way, you'd know that I'm creating stuff off the top of my head in those posts instead of just forgetting to cite recycled source material.

Quote from: Epic MeepoQuestion: Would it help...

Yes. Yes it would. ;)

Túrin

Quote from: TúrinYes. Yes it would. ;)

Done and done. ;)

Now added to the main Cebexia thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17381.0#post_17382) (at the end of the linked post): "The People of Cebexia."

Given the fondness CBGers have for discussing how to use existing races, how many subraces are necessary, and how much one should rely on existing material when writing about races, I suspect that this latest addition to Cebexia has the potential for controversy. Nevertheless, I still welcome all comments.

Looks like my Dracemar didn't make the cut. :( That aside, I love the races section. The idea of Drift is facinating, and provides a logical explanation for the various subraces that doesn't try to deal with real world evolutionary theory - you nicely circumvent it in a believable, reliable, and predictable manner. I might have to steal something similar (with your permission) for other settings, it fits so nicely. I also really like the differentiation between race and species, which makes sense, since that's the way I've always defined it to myself. Plus, drift allows the DM to introduce a new race without much trouble - it's just the first member of that species to drift in that direction.

Questions:
In the species where there is no natural nobility (a nice touch with elves, btw), which races are most often nobility? For example, are most hominid nobles humans?

Do other creatures experience drift? do you have variant wolves, who tend to be alphas, while others are better adapted to woodland hunting, etc?

Biologically, call all the members of a single species interbreed? For example, could a human and a halfling have a child? what would the child be? If the child is human, and the mother halfling, would she survive childbirth?

Do people tend to group culturally by species? How do different species interact? is their a lot of racism? specisism?

Great stuff, Meeps, and I look forward to seeing more from this amazing setting!

Quote from: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?19117my last Recycle Bin post[/url].

QuoteIn the species where there is no natural nobility (a nice touch with elves, btw), which races are most often nobility?

Do other creatures experience drift?

Biologically, can all the members of a single species interbreed? For example, could a human and a halfling have a child?[/quote]what would the child be?[/quote]If the child is human, and the mother halfling, would she survive childbirth?[/quote]I had actually considered a similar issue when it came to the merrow (psicine subrace). A halfing mother bearing a human child would have the same chances of surviving childbirth as a human mother. To see why, notice that a merrow has a "normal" size at birth (that is, a size that fits with that of its mother). If a merrow's mother is Medium, the merrow is born Medium and then rapidly grows into a Large size. A similar principle would apply in the case of a halfling mother bearing a human child.

Great questions, by the way!

Once again, some wonderful material. Keep it up!

Since you seem to be focusing on pseudo-realistic races, somewhat based on Darwinism (it seems) I feel I can ask you this question: how do you explain the existence and continued survival of massive underground civilizations?

Túrin

Dude, Drift has got to be my favourite explanation for the appearance of fantasy 'races' ever, and Cebexia is quite possibly the best interpretation of donated setting ideas ever.  Your use of Eruhne honestly did the name more justice than I ever could.

However, I should tell you that I actually recycled the name Eruhne for Dystopia (it's the westernmost continent) and forgot to make that clear in the Recycle Bin.  I have no problem whatsoever with you using it as well, as the two applications have virtually nothing in common (unlike Wizards, I have no issues with product identity, at least as it pertains to members of this board), but you ought to know as you might find it a bother.

I was already debating changing "Eruhne" to "Ehrune" because that's what my fingers keep wanting to type, so I may end up doing that. On the other hand, I'm not really concerned about using terms that appear in other settings. After all, once I finish with the introductory material for Cebexia (I consider everything I've done so far to be a brief overview, nothing more), there's going to be a lot more reliance upon material taken directly from existing settings. By the time I've adapted material from Golem, Realm Weaver, and Witchhunt, I'm going to have quite a few borrowed names.

Quote from: TúrinSince you seem to be focusing on pseudo-realistic races, somewhat based on Darwinism (it seems) I feel I can ask you this question: how do you explain the existence and continued survival of massive underground civilizations?

I'm not sure I understand the connection between Darwinism and the improbability of underground civilizations. (Darwinism suggests that underground civilizations are improbable on Earth, but I'm not sure that such a conclusion still applies on a world that isn't exactly Earth-like.)

I suppose one answer to your question would be the following: Cebexia is a hollow world. Inside it is an Underworld, the center of which is a Furnace that is identical to Cebexia's Sun. Sunlight from the Furnace can support plant life in caverns that it reaches, allowing for underground ecosystems that are the same or similar to those of the surface world.

Another answer: Drift is more powerful than evolution (and nowhere near as realistic). If a race eeks out a miserable living feeding on subterranean fungus in caverns untouched by sunlight, Drift will eventually give them a biology that isn't strained by feeding on fungus. Natural selection isn't required; even a population that completely lacks a particular genetic (or mystical!) adaptation will eventually develop it, provided they can survive long enough to get it. For example, Drift caused the azer to incrementally adapt to the Elemental Plane of Fire, something which violates real-world laws of chemistry in ways evolution never could.

In the particular case of the shadow kin, there is also a third answer. The elder gods directly intervened in the development of the shadow kin, causing them to adapt to the Plane of Shadow by divine fiat. Those shadow kin that chose to remain on Cebexia can thrive in even the darkest of underground caverns because they are designed to exist on a world that has no Sun. Presumably, they have imported various plants from the Plane of Shadow that somehow exist in environments totally alien to the realistic world that is the surface of Cebexia.

Hopefully that answers the question.

Most of the main Cebexia thread has now been officially labelled as Open Game Content.

(And that includes Drift, so that concept is free for anyone to use or modify as they see fit. :))

Quote from: Epic Meepo

Quote from: TúrinSince you seem to be focusing on pseudo-realistic races, somewhat based on Darwinism (it seems) I feel I can ask you this question: how do you explain the existence and continued survival of massive underground civilizations?

To clarify: I didn't necessarily mean that underground civilizations are Darwinistically impossible. I meant to say: hey look, from the Darwinist impression I got from the whole Drift business, I conclude that you are shooting for a fairly detailed level of pseudo-realism (basically the idea that there is an in-game logic to everything). Given that, I'm asking for the logic behind the seemingly large number of underground civilizations.

QuoteHopefully that answers the question.

It does. Thanks!

Túrin

The second post of the main thread has now been expanded and reorganized, as follows:

1) Language information has been added to the language section and to the description of each race;
2) Bugbears have been added as a stone-born subrace and tritons have been added as a piscine subrace;
3) Information on number systems has been added. (The section on numbers also includes a poorly-disguised nod to brainface.)

EDIT: Almost forgot. There's also a new spoiler in the Races block that explains the difference between race and culture on Cebexia.

For details, follow the Cebexia link in my sig and read the second post.

The Humanoid Cultures section of this post on the main Cebexia thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17382) has been updated.

The section now includes two newly adapted humanoid cultures: the auraks and the vaethii, both based on recycled material provided by Salacious Angel (whatever his screen name may be at the moment). There's also a brief reference to Xathan's dracemar race, though I'm not doing any game mechanics for the time being, so I haven't yet done anything in-depth with said race.

Quote from: Epic MeepoThe Humanoid Cultures section of this post on the main Cebexia thread (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?17382) has been updated.

The section now includes two newly adapted humanoid cultures: the auraks and the vaethii, both based on recycled material provided by Salacious Angel (whatever his screen name may be at the moment). There's also a brief reference to Xathan's dracemar race, though I'm not doing any game mechanics right for the time being, so I haven't yet done anything in-depth with said race.

More great stuff, and of course I love the Dracemar reference. Keep this stuff coming!

In addition the main thread, I've now started a Players' Guide (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?22113.0) thread discussing issues related to Cebexian characters. Though I've been trying to keep Cebexia largely mechanics free so far, the Players' Guide is eventually going to include assorted rules for creating and playing D&D character in Cebexia-based campaigns. For the time beings, the Players' Guide won't also discuss non-D&D game systems.

In the Players' Guide to Cebexia (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?22113.2), I've now added a few interesting character description details and d20 game mechanics:

There's now a height and weight table for hominids, plus a "Hominid Racial Traits" spoiler at the end of the hominid post. If you read through the spoiler, you'll notice a new feat, a new racial descriptor for the goblin, and a new approach to bonus language selection (which I will be using for all of the races of Cebexia, not just hominids).

For anyone who's interested, I've now added a quick tour to the Players' Guide to Cebexia (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?22113), as described in the first post on that thread. The quick tour walks you through the big picture without requiring you to read all the details.

For those who haven't yet noticed, I'm using the community world of Cebexia (eight contributors so far!) as the backdrop for my Crystalfire (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?25808) campaign setting. "Cebexia" is the world itself and "Crystalfire" is the name of a specific setting within that world (namely, adventures taking place across the globe in the so-called age of crystalfire). Comments can either be directed here, or to the Crystalfire thread.

Much of the existing material for Cebexia applies in full in the Crystalfire campaign setting. In particular, the Player's Guide to Cebexia (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?22113) has just been updated to include lots of new information, including a more refined list of races and a handful of global affiliations. I'd be particularly interested in hearing people's thoughts on the mechanics I'm using for affilitions (which appear in the last few posts of the Player's Guide).