The Campaign Builder's Guild

[ooc]Sometimes people ask me: "Hey, LC! Is it true that you're really crazy when it comes to starting projects that are probably more than you can handle?"

In case the answer weren't obvious, I'm going to make it abundantly clear: The current ill-advised project is a brand new system of game mechanics. From scratch.

Yeah! Crazy!

But, like the Sacred Geometry (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?19950) idea, this is something that has been on my mind for quite a while, and simply will not let me be until I write it down.

Will this ever be used? Maybe, maybe not. My goal is to eventually arrive at a working, usable system that presents a viable alternative to the heavy-hitters we all know and love (or know and loathe) so well.

Am I abandoning d20? Not explicitly, but there's no more d20 work to do on the Jade Stage, and I'm feeling dissatisfied with level-based, class-based systems in general. I'm not done with d20 (I'll still be running the Battle of Brithen game in d20 format), but I'm exploring my other options and ideas.

Is this a Jade Stage project? Yes and no. I'm developing it with the Jade Stage in mind, but ideally, Triad System should be general and adaptable enough to be used for all sorts of gaming environments-- from modern day New York to Camelot, from Dystopia to Stars Above-- with minimal modification.

Why fool around with this whole project? Lots of reasons. The aforementioned dissatisfaction with the status quo is a big one. I think I can make something better than d20. Partially, it's boredom. Partially, it's the necessity of nagging ideas.

What's the Triad System all about? It's essentially a tri-stat system: mental, physical, social-- all three equally weighted. There's subtler shading within that framework, and (hopefully!) a flexible sort of mechanic should lend Triad a great deal of power and precision.

I want to be able to use Triad to build any kind of character I want, and to run any kind of scenario I want, not because I wrestled an obstinate system of mechanics to the ground, but because it's easy and natural.

We'll see how it turns out.[/ooc]

Qualities and Specialties

The Triad describes characters in terms of Qualities-- things you are-- and Specialties-- things you've learned to do. Qualities are general and innate, while Specialties are more specific. For example, Bob the soldier might be pretty tough (that's a Quality), and also a well-trained archer (that's a specialty.) Sammy the trader might be very clever (a Quality) and an amateur musician (a Specialty.) Jane the diplomat might be generally good with people (a Quality) as well as an experienced negotiator (a Specialty.) All these characters use their Qualities and Specialties together to succeed at their various endeavors.

Every character has three main qualities: physical, social, and mental. These three qualities are further broken up as follows:

Physical Qualities
- Speed: A speedy character is nimble, quick, and precise. Having a high Speed helps a character avoid danger, outrun threats, get the drop on enemies, and land attacks with accuracy.
- Guts: A gutsy character is tough and resilient. Having plenty of Guts helps a character ignore pain, shrug off sickness, poison, and injury, and keep coming back for more.
- Brawn: A brawny character has plenty of raw physical strength. Having a high Brawn helps a character lift, move, and break things, subdue opponents, and inflict punishing damage.

Social Qualities
- Style: A stylish character knows how to grab and keep attention. High Style helps a character influence crowds, distract onlookers, and generally impress people with your glamour or demeanor. If you're the center of attention, it's because your Style put you there. Performers, public speakers, con artists, and commanders often drip with Style.
- Grace: A graceful character can read the currents of the social scene and blend in. Graceful characters seem to know all the local customs wherever they go (or they learn them very quickly!), how to act at classy social gatherings, how to blend in with slum-dwelling refugees or decadent nobles alike. High Grace helps a character feel at home and act the part, no matter what their company. Well-traveled individuals, well-bred socialites, and skilled spies are likely to be full of social Grace.
- Charm: A charming character knows how to get his or her way. Maybe it's the face, or the voice, or a certain way with words, but a character with high Charm can often get people to believe he's telling the truth (whether he is or not!), convince others into doing what he asks, or intimidate someone into compliance.

Mental Qualities
- Wits: A character with his Wits about him is always alert. High Wits helps a character notice small details in the world around him, or just generally be clever. Wits helps an adventurer figure out which way to dive to dodge that falling rock, solve the riddles posed by an ancient wizard, or notice that the eyes of that painting really are following him around the room!
- Lore: Lore represents education and the accumulation of useful facts and trivia. A character with a mastery of Lore might know the crests and mottos of noble houses, how to read and write several languages, the histories of nations, how to identify plants in the wild, how to mix a deadly poison, or how to perform emergency surgery on a goblin.
- Wisdom: Wisdom is a more abstract concept, a combination of intuition, insight, creativity, and ability to think outside the box. It is the stock and trade of philosophers, poets, teachers, and problem-solvers-- a person with high Wits might be able to notice hidden clues, but sometimes only a person with high Wisdom can figure out what all the clues mean. Wisdom has to do with a deep and fundamental understanding of life, people, and the world in general-- which means that many people think they possess it in large quantities, but few truly do.

In many cases, all three skills of a certain type will be used together. A character might use all his mental skills to solve a crimescene, or all his social skills to attempt a seduction, or all his physical skills to run a triathalon. But in other cases, a character would use them more selectively: to move a large stone, for example, a character needs only Brawn-- the other Physical Qualities don't matter.

Measuring Qualities
Qualities are measured on a scale of 1 to 7, but the average for most people and most qualities is 3. A Brawn of 3, for example, would be common for most healthy adults. A Brawn of 1 or 2 might indicate the strength of a child, a person suffering debilitating illness, or someone similarly weaker than average. A Brawn of 7 would be extraordinarily rare; someone with that kind of Brawn might be arguably the strongest person in the world. Likewise, a person with a Style of 7 turns heads when she enters any room, and has people hanging on her every word; a person with a Style of 1 or 2 has difficulty getting people's attention even when she has something to say.

A Sample Character
At this point, it's getting difficult to talk about all these things in abstracts, so let's imagine a sample character. We'll call him Nick. Nick works on a farm, and drives his cart into the city to sell vegetables at the weekly market.

[note=Nick's Stats]I don't have much in the way of a character creation process yet, so Nick isn't really "authentically made." We'll just use him as an example for the time being: he is character v.1.0.

I gave Nick 27 points to spread throughout his Qualities. That's exactly enough to put a 3 in everything: the average adult's stats.[/note]

Quote from: Augh, no.Yes, my examples are the most cliché examples ever. Cut me a little slack. :) [/note]For example, let's look at Nick again. He's had a lucrative day at market, and has decided to stop by a local tavern on the way home for a well-deserved refreshing beverage. In the tavern, he meets a large, drunken, belligerent man who has mistaken Nick for someone else: someone he wants to punch in the face!

Nick decides to try to calm the man down. He picks three stats to do this with, and decides to use his qualities of Style, Wisdom, and Charm-- Style to get the drunkard to stop and pay attention to what he's saying, Wisdom to come up with a convincing nonviolet suggestion, and Charm to convince the drunkard to pay heed to it. Nick is drawing upon Social and Mental Qualities, at the same time, in response to a Physical threat.

[note=On Numbers To Beat]I'm not really sure how to determine what Nick would have had to roll to succeed here. Maybe there's a set number. Maybe the drunk gets a roll of his own (perhaps Wits, Wisdom, and Charm?) to see that he's being manipulated.

At any rate, there are still gaps to be filled in.[/note] Nick adds his Style (2), his Wisdom (4), and his Charm (3), getting a total of 9: a pretty average total. To this, he adds 3d6: one die for each Quality he's chosen. But Nick rolls poorly: his total of 3d6+9 is only 15, much too low to thwart the violent intentions of a raging drunkard.

The drunkard pulls back his fist and prepares to clobber Nick. Combat! The drunkard is relying on brute force, so he totals all three of his Physical Qualities and adds 3d6. To defend himself, Nick tries to use his Wits to see the direction of the incoming blow, his Speed to get out of the way, and his Guts to take the punch without serious injury, if it comes to that. He adds Wits (3), Speed (2), and Guts (5), adding 3d6 to his total of 10. Unfortunately, it's just not Nick's night. Nick's total was the lower of the two, and the drunkard's fist catches him squarely in the jaw!

Specialties: Because sometimes Qualities just won't cut it

As mentioned, while Qualities are things you are-- smart or quick, persuasive or tough, etc.-- Specialties are skills you've learned. Specialties work much like Qualities, but tend to be more specific. [note=Listing Specialties]I don't have an exhaustive list of Specialties, but I'm not sure if I need one. There will likely be a "core" list of commonly-used Specialties, but it is completely feasable for players and GMs to work together to create new ones as the situation merits.[/note]For example, most characters use Qualities like Charm to get their way, but a character with high Charm and the Specialty of Negotiation is an even better smoothtalker. Likewise, Lore determines a character's general knowledge, but a character with high Lore and the Specialties of History and Science is going to be especially well-suited to dealing with those kinds of subjects.

Measuring Specialties
Like Qualities, Specialties are measured on a scale of 1 to 7 (or 0, since you don't have to have points in a Specialty at all). Unlike Qualities, a 3 is not "average" for Specialties. Since Specialties represent an above-average focus in a particular area, the "average" value for any given Specialty is not to have it at all.

For this reason, most characters tend to have much lower numbers in their Specialties than in their Qualities, but even one or two points in a Specialty can make a big difference when that Specialty comes into play.

Picking and Choosing Options, with Specialties
Players have a healthy array of options with most actions, even without Specialties. For example, in a sword-duel, a character might easily call upon a wide variety of Qualities: Speed, to strike accurately and parry effectively; Brawn, to punch through defenses and hit hard; Guts, to resist pain and fatigue and keep coming on strong; Wits, to be keenly aware of an opponent's movements in order to counter them; Style, to demoralize an opponent with a display of unshakeable confidence and skill; Charm, to bluff an opponent into making a mistake; and so on. Even if we pick them three at a time, there are many possibilities. It almost seems superfluous to invest points in a Specialization like Swordplay when there are already so many options, especially since basic Qualities like Speed or Style have many possible uses in all sorts of situations, while Swordplay would only be used in combat.

The advantages to using Specialties are twofold. First, the ability to use a Specialty for its related task is stable. Most Qualities are fairly subjective in how they can be used. For example, using Speed, Brawn, or Wits for combat-related actions works fairly well most of the time, but other Qualities see far less use-- there are simply a limited number of situations where it makes sense to use Style, Guts, and Charm in a fight. If you have the Swordplay Specialty, you can use it in every roll involving combat as long as you have a sword in your hand. For a character intending to see a lot of fighting, that kind of extra stability is a big deal: a Specialty like that is something to rely upon.

The other, possibly even bigger advantage to using Specialties is that they're simply more effective than Qualities when it comes to the particular task they're suited for. When your roll includes at least one Specialty, you get to add an extra die to the total (using 4d6 instead of 3d6.) The extra die represents the focused nature of expertise a Specialty grants.

Because of the extra die, even a Specialty with a value of 1 is very powerful. Using the swordfighting example, a character with Swordplay 1 might consider that a better choice in battle than a Quality with a value of 3, 4, or even higher. In this way, learning a Specialty even at one point makes a character very good at what that Specialty is for, even better than a character with above-average scores in the relevant Qualities. And if a Specialty with a value of 1 makes a character quite capable, a Specialty with a value as high as 7 makes a character a serious force to be reckoned with.

[note=Coming Soon:]Character Creation (i.e., how to buy up all these Qualities and Specialties)

A non-exhaustive list of Specialties to get you started

The Core Qualities: Health, Will and Focus

Magic![/note]

Core Qualities: Health, Will, and Focus

Core Qualities are unique in that they are derived from the regular Qualities, rather than "bought" directly with character points. They are the only values on the character sheet that are expended during the course of a game session, and their mechanic emphasizes the importance of being well-rounded.

Like the nine primary Qualities, the Core Qualities are divided into Physical, Mental, and Social categories: Health is Physical, Focus is Mental, and Will is Social. The values of the Core Qualities are closely tied to the values of the associated primary Qualities: a Core Quality equals the lowest value of its three associated primary Qualities. In the previous example of Nick the farmer, Nick's Health is 2 (limited by his Speed of 2), his Focus is 2 (limited by his Lore of 2), and his Will is 2 (limited by both Grace and Style.) Nick can increase his Core Qualities only if he increases his main Qualities; if he increases his Lore to 3, his Focus also increases to 3, because 3 would be the lowest value of all his Mental Qualities.

Health
Health is, simply put, a measure of how much punishment a character can take before his body fails him. Points of Health are not "spent" like points of Focus and Will are. Instead, they are subtracted from a character's total when that character suffers injury. Lost Health is recovered with medical care.

When a character reaches zero health, his body fails him. This may be represented by a loss of consciousness, total exhaustion, paralysis, or other condition that makes sense in light of the type of injury that removed the last Health point. A character with zero health points is unable to defend himself; if he takes further damage that would reduce Health, he is completely at the mercy of his attacker. These types of especially dire injuries can result in maiming, death, and other severe inconveniences.

Focus
Focus, simply stated, is a measure of a character's ability to concentrate under pressure. A character can spend a point of Focus to effectively do two things at once, gaining an extra action in a turn, or reactively using Qualities twice in a round. [note=reactivity]More on this later, I swear.

Maybe.[/note]

However, Focus takes on new layers of significance in the mind of magic-using characters, as it affects the facility with which they use their unusual abilities. Each Magic Thought a mage has active "occupies" one point of Focus-- that is to say, a mage can never simultaneously use more Magic Thoughts than he has points of available Focus. Additionally, some especially potent magic abilities require expenditure of Focus to power them, and certain magic techniques enable a circlewielder to attack another individual's Focus directly, neutralizing enemy magic-users.

Expended points of Focus are replenished by meditation, rest, and similar activities that clear and refresh the mind.

Will[note=Will. Won't!]I pretty much dislike the name for this ability, but I can't really think of a better one. I'm trying to convey a certain determination and "sense of self," but I can't come up with a word that means those things that's short and simple enough for what I want.[/note]
A character's Will represents a character's determination and sense of purpose, the reserve from which characters draw to snatch victory from the jaws of crushing defeat. A player may spend a point of Will upon failing a roll, for a chance at a better outcome.

In a situation where a character would be forced to act against his wishes, spending a point of Will turns failure into automatic success. In other situations, spending a point of Will merely grants another roll as a result of extraordinary effort, and the effects of the second roll must be kept (whether they are favorable or not.) For example, Jesse is torturing Steve in an attempt to get him to reveal the rebels' battle plans, but Steve is determined to keep his mouth shut despite the pain, to give his comrades-in-arms a chance in the big battle. However, Jesse is a skilled interrogator, and her roll for the torture session (Wits + Charm + Interrogation + 4d6) beats Steve's effort to resist (Guts + Wits + Wisdom + 3d6). The agony is too great, and he is forced to give Jesse the informati-- wait! Steve draws on some unfathomable inner reserve, spending a point of Will to resist the torment a while longer. However, he is weakening (gradually spending all his Will!), and Jesse knows that with patience and persistence, she will eventually extract everything she needs to know (assuming Steve's allies don't rescue him before then, of course!)

Steve's auto-success from a Will point is because he used it to avoid acting against his wishes (i.e., giving away information he strongly desired to keep secret.) However, in the hallway outside the torture chamber, a different scene is simultaneously unfolding. Rebel operative Melissa is on a misson to rescue Steve from torture... but first, she has to make her way past the guards. She sneaks down the hallway, trying to find a way past the patrols while still remaining stealthy (Wits + Speed + Stealth + 4d6), but one of the guards notices her! (Wits + Wisdom + Awareness + 4d6.) She spends a Will point, because her mission is urgent! The Will point grants her a reroll instead of automatic success, because being spotted doesn't force Melissa to act against her wishes. If she wins the reroll, the guard assumes he saw only an errant shadow in the flickering torchlight. If she fails the reroll, she is out of options-- she has been spotted.

Will is replenished in response to events that serve to double a character's resolve. A character may regain a spent point of Will upon seeing a mentor gunned down before her eyes, or discovering incontrovertible proof of the Temple's corruption, or returning home at last to find the village burned to the ground by troll marauders.

The Arc Path

[ic=Gor of Iro]Your life is curved, my son. You have a power, yes, but it will lead you away from the plans-you-hold. Cho help you now.[/ic]

Magic users learn the secrets of the Sacred Geometries, and are said to walk the Arc Path, a departure from the straight roads of conventional destiny. The Circle is a force of nature: its effects through and upon its wielders are profound. There are many avenues of power a circle-wielder might pursue, but the first stages of learning, the initiation into the mysteries of the Circle, are generally the same: the young circle-wielder first learns of the nature of the Circle, then begins to perceive the Circle personally.

In game terms, becoming a mage involves the following steps, which must take place in order:
[note=Learning Magic]Naturally, GMs may prefer to insist upon a teacher-student relationship of some kind, in order for a character to learn magic initially. Alternately, they might allow characters to develop magic spontaneously in a different kind of setting (in which case the first requirement involving the Circle Magic Specialty might be dropped entirely.)[/note]1.) Learn at least one point of the Specialty, Circle Magic. This Specialty represents knowledge about mages and magic, as well as (eventually) the ability to use magic with precision and skill. Many magic techniques, when they use rolls, allow for the possibility of using the Circle Magic Specialty.
2.) Learn the Magic Thought technique, Circlesight. This Magic Thought represents the ability to perceive the Circle's effects, and is the first technique young mages learn when setting foot upon the Arc Path.

Once the young circle-wielder has at least one point in Circle Magic and knows the Circlesight technique, he may further explore the mysteries of the Circle at his own pace, advancing his Circle Magic Specialty and learning new Magic Thoughts, Gestures, and Inscriptions as he sees fit.

Magic Thought
Commonly considered the most basic, personal, and internalized form of magic, Magic Thought produces extraordinary effects that alter the way a circle-wielder interacts with the world. To utilize Magic Thought, a mage calls to mind an image of the Circle, weighting certain arcs and circumferencial points with particular emphasis in such a way as to evoke the desired effect from the Circle's natural properties. Maintaining concentration on such a specifically prepared image requires a certain level of mental discipline, but practiced mages can cultivate the ability to hold multiple Thoughts in mind at once, and many do so during all their waking hours.

The importance of Focus
Concentrating on a Thought requires a certain amount of mental energy. A circle-wielder's Focus attribute is of critical importance, since each Thought in effect "occupies" a point of the circle-wielder's Focus. (Some rare and potent Thoughts may require more than one point of Focus, due to their great complexity.) A mage whose current Focus is reduced will often have to relinquish one or more Thoughts, if the reduction brings his current Focus below the number of Thoughts he previously had active.

For example, Ben knows that a spy is active in the city, and he wants that spy's information. Working on a hunch, he puts his mage talents to work at counter-espionage in the streets outside a seedy tavern. Ben has two points of Focus, so he leans against a wall, wrapping himself in two well-chosen Thoughts: one sharpens his eyes and ears as he stands lookout, the other ensures that no one takes a close-enough look to realize he doesn't really belong in this part of town. When Ben notices the spy exiting the tavern he's staking out, he shifts his strategy and his Thoughts, dropping his aura of Obscurity in favor of a commanding voice. "Stop," he intones levelly, in a voice rich with subtle and strange undertones. The spy, to her surprise, finds herself obeying.

Some Magic Thoughts

Circlesight - The first technique a mage learns, Circlesight allows the perception of magic. A mage concentrating on Circlesight is aware of magic effects around him, sometimes leading others (correctly) to surmise that mages see things invisible to the uninitiated. Different circle-wielders experience magic in different ways, often as hazes of color, audial rumblings or susurrations, scents, sensations of pressure or temperature change, or vague mental "hunches." Using Circlesight, mages can heed these sensory cues to pinpoint the location and approximate size and magnitude of magic effects. This enables a mage to notice magic Inscriptions or Circle-engraved items, and even to recognize other individuals as mages (provided they have one or more active Magic Thoughts to be seen.) In some cases the GM may call for a roll to notice small or subtle details, just as with nonmagical perception.

Awareness - This technique sharpens a mage's senses, enabling him to see detail at great distances, hear whispers from across the room, or smell the "undetectable" poison in a cup of wine. A mage under the effect of this Thought may use the Circle Magic Specialization in rolls involving sensory perception, and may be given the opportunity to roll to see, hear, smell, taste, or feel sensations that would be too subtle for normal people to notice (as in the above examples.) Due to the sensory overload resulting from such vastly magnified input, concentrating on Awareness occupies two points of Focus, not one.

Obscurity - A mage cloaked in this Thought hides himself from onlookers, remaining perfectly visible, but becoming unremarkable. Unless the mage calls attention to himself with suspicious action, onlookers will not give him a second thought-- he becomes a mere faceless member of the crowd. Different individuals may see the Obscure mage in different ways-- as hired help, an anonymous and nondescript stranger, and so on-- and will be unable to recall precise details of physical description afterwards.

This illusion is far from foolproof, and there are many conditions under which it collapses. Onlookers are permitted an opposed roll to see through the illusion if the mage behaves suspiciously or calls attention to himself with conspicuous action, or if they know the mage personally and would normally recognize him. The mage is permitted to use the Circle Magic Specialization in these checks. If a mage using Obscurity is seen by a mage using Awareness, a similar opposed roll is made, and both mages may use Circle Magic in the roll. Finally, Obscurity fails if the mage is in a place where there is no normal traffic to blend in with.

Resonance - A mage using this Thought drapes himself with the mantle of authority, lending extraordinary weight to his words. When he speaks while focusing upon Resonance, his voice dances with irresistable undertones and strange echoes, becoming hard to ignore or to disobey. While under the effects of Resonance, a mage may use the Circle Magic Specialization in rolls involving getting and holding the attention of others, or persuading them to follow commands.

Resonance lends the mage a voice of authoritative command or tempting suggestion, not a voice of destruction. Obviously self-destructive commands are ignored, and anyone witnessing them becomes immune to that mage's Resonance for a day and feels that something unnatural and sinister has just happened. More subtle trickery may still work, however, so while a mage may not use Resonance to encourage someone to jump off a balcony, he might successfully persuade the same person to indulge in a glass of (poisoned) wine. Resonance and Obscurity inverse and are mutually exclusive Thoughts, and no mage may use both simultaneously.

Circle Grasp - This Thought enables the mage to interact directly with the Circle Currents around him, grasping, redirecting, and physically manipulating them. Only a mage concentrating on this Thought is capable of using Magic Gesture techniques.

[note=Customizing Magic]This list of powers is tailored for a low-magic setting according to my particular tastes. It can be easily adapted for other settings by adding or removing powers from the list. If you want magic users in your setting to be able to fly or sling eldritch fire, it's fairly easy to add Thoughts and Gestures that do just that.[/note]Arc Aspect - A mage focusing on this Thought allows the Arc Path to carry him slightly out of phase with conventional reality. While focusing upon the image of the Arc Aspect, the mage is unaffected by hunger and thirst, and does not need to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep to survive. This Thought also suspends both aging and natural healing for the duration of the mage's concentration, but this unnatural method of existence is draining. Every day while using this Thought, the mage must succeed at a roll or lose one point of Focus, meaning that eventually, with no Focus left to maintain this Thought, the mage must rest and refresh his mind.

Mind Over Matter - A mage concentrating on this potent Thought may selectively ignore the laws of nature themselves. This Thought protects a mage against dangers by allowing the mage to treat them as harmless. By exercising Mind Over Matter, the mage may consume poison without consequence, watch arrows pass insubstancially through his body, or harmlessly catch the hewing blade of a sword with a naked hand. This power is taxing in the extreme, however; focusing on Mind Over Matter occupies two points of Focus instead of one, and every injury avoided with this Thought requires the mage to expend one point of Focus or one point of Will. (If doing so is impossible, or if expending a point of Focus would require the mage to drop concentration on Mind Over Matter, the hapless mage suffers injury as normal.)[note=Upcoming]Specific Thoughts, Gestures, and Inscriptions will eventually be listed here.

I am being careful to proceed slowly and deliberately in this portion of the project. I am getting a little more specific here than I did in the opening section, and I want to be sure not to crush the life out of this system. You can pin a butterfly to a display board, after all, but the butterfly isn't much better off for your efforts.

:yumm:[/note]

Combat and Other Conflict Resolution

You already know most of what you need to know for this stuff. But there are just a few more ideas that should lend the system some color.

The Rule of Seven
It's one thing to come out on top, but completely dominating your rivals is something a little more special. When a conflict is particularly one-sided (or when one participant gets particularly lucky,) some serious fireworks can go off. In game terms, when two characters make opposed rolls and one beats the other by seven or more, victory is particularly sweet (and defeat is particularly bitter.)

Players and the GM should work together to determine exactly what happens when the Rule of Seven comes into play, but here are some examples of typical effects:

In combat:
- If the attacker beats the defender by seven, he can do an additional point of Health damage.
- If the defender beats the attacker by seven, he can exploit an opening to get a free attack against his assailant.
- In general, this is how people find themselves disarmed, backed into corners, put in headlocks, or otherwise disadvantaged.

Elsewhere:
- (Note to self: fill soome of this stuff in :yumm: )

A good rule of thumb is to keep effects of the Rule of Seven moderate (instant death is probably a bit much, for example), and to make them based on a character's skill, not luck. For example, a duelist who loses a roll against his opponent by seven or more should face his consequence because his opponent made a skillful maneuver or because he left himself open, not because he happened to trip on a random pebble and fall upon his own sword.

Reactivity:
If someone strikes you, you probably react by defending yourself from the blow. If someone asks you a question, you might react with an answer or a witty retort. If someone turns to flee from you, you might try to grab them by the shoulder before they can escape. If someone pulls a gun on you, you might try to disarm them, try to talk them down, or dive for cover.

There are myriad ways to deal with someone else's actions, and players can be as creative as they like when doing so. But there is no one parry that will turn aside any attack, and there is no one argument that will deflect all criticism. Anyone living the dangerous life of an adventurer must be flexible enough to adapt to rapidly changing situations, and consistently relying on the same retorts is a recipe for failure.

[note=Still Brainstorming about this]This little idea has a dual purpose: to break up the monotony of combat (and other roll-intensive situations) by requiring a little creativity, and to encourage players to make well-rounded characters rather than relying on one really good combination of three high stats.

I still haven't decided whether I like it or not.

It can be adjusted to be more strict or more lenient, as required. My first idea was that no quality can be used twice to react between turns (which is much more strict, and coincidentally puts another point in favor of specializations.) More recent ideas included the notion that repeated reaction rolls are just penalized by the removal of a d6 for each repetition, rather than outright disallowment (which is clearly more lenient.) Time and testing will tell what works (or whether any of these work at all.)[/note]Because of this, no character can use the same combination of qualities and/or specialties in a reaction roll more than once between turns.

For example, Gor walks alone through the streets of Taro, when he's ambushed by three thugs. It seems he has angered Keth Farrhal, and is about to be taught a lesson! The thugs surround Gor, and begin to lunge at him with steel cudgels! Instinct takes over, and Gor drops into a brawler's stance, turning to face his attackers: one, two three. He sidesteps the first thug's swing (Speed + Wits + Brawling + 4d6), but that move won't work on all of them. He has to meet the next attacks with a different combination of stats, and decides to grab the next thug's wrist at the height of the swing. He uses (Speed + Brawn + Brawling + 4d6) to do so, succeeding with a 24 to his opponent's unfortunate 14. Since the Rule of Seven comes into play, Gor decides to wrest the cudgel from that thug entirely. But there's still a third thug to deal with, and Gor decides to deflect this attack with the cudgel he's just grabbed (Guts + Brawn + Wits + 3d6.) This turns out not to work as well as he'd hoped, as the thug shifts and cracks him on the elbow instead. Gor roars in pain!

However, now it's time for a reckoning. Gor moves to the attack! When Gor takes his action, all his reactions "refresh," and he can use those combinations again (Speed/Wits/Brawling, Speed/Brawn/Brawling, and Guts/Brawn/Wits) to react against the thugs' next round of attacks.

Focus and Reactions:
This brings us to the third and final use of the Focus stat. Let's review. Focus can be used...
1.) By magic users, to keep their Magic Thoughts active,
2.) By anyone, to perform an extra action in a turn, and
3.) By anyone, to reuse a reaction in a single turn. A character expending a point of Focus in this way picks a single reaction roll he has already used this turn, and can now use it again. In the above example, if Gor had wanted to deal with his second attacker the same way he'd dealt with the first one (with Speed + Wits + Brawling), he could spend a point of Focus to use the (Speed/Wits/Brawling) combination again right away.

[ooc]Strawberry preserves[/ooc]

[ooc]Delusions[/ooc]

[ooc]What[/ooc]

Will does not seem like the ideal name for a social quality.

Dictionary.com defines will as (first): the faculty of conscious and especially of deliberate action; the power of control the mind has over its own actions

I would say that Will is a measure of mental strength and determination.

Honestly, I thought Focus was going to be your social Core Quality.  Perhaps you could also call it Drive, Force, Aptitude, or something similar.

Just a suggestion while you are brainstorming.

I agree in not liking a level-based progression, and you seem to making progress and have some interesting ideas.

I'm looking it over now, and it looks very nice after a quick skim.  If by chance you finish it, I might consider using it myself, just as I fully intend to use the Sacred Geometries idea you posted in another thread.  Some ideas are just too good to let go just because they weren't you invention...

Anyway, keep it up LC!  Your work is an inspiration to us all.

This looks like a very interesting system and i will follow it with interest. I hope you do get it at least close to completion. Keep it up LC, this looks wicked.
I look forward to seeing how specialities work and how you advance characters (i fing this to be the hardest thing to create and have work in a non-level based system).

This looks marvellous. Mmmm... overlapping abilities. I may have to lift some of this for a supers game (if that's okay).

As bare-bones rules systems go, this one seems quite nice. Too many "simplified" systems try to include gimmicky die-rolling conventions (or alternatives to dice) just for the sake of showing how different they are from "complicated" systems, but this one avoids that pitfall. A few stats, a few skills, roll and add. When I'm going free-form, that's just about what I do.

I've finished the section on Health, Focus, and Will. For now.

Here I go to reply to some of your comments. Thank you all for taking an interest in my wacky ramblings!

Quote from: CritIf by chance you finish it, I might consider using it myself, just as I fully intend to use the Sacred Geometries idea you posted in another thread.

I look forward to seeing how specialities work and how you advance characters (i fing this to be the hardest thing to create and have work in a non-level based system).[/quote]bad[/i] at, but no especially high rolls, either. There's a balance to be sought there.

Hopefully, soon I will be able to get to things like more information on Specialties, and on how Sacred Geometry works with this system, precisely. But we'll see.

This system kicks ass so far, and I'm seriously contemplating using it for Dystopia.  It's very simple, and yet it makes so much sense.

One issue though: the fact that Nick's health is limited by his speed (to the point where, despite having Guts 5 and Brawn 4, his Health is still 2!!!) makes little sense to me, considering how strong and durable he otherwise is.  It would make more sense to me if a core quality was the average of the three, so that his scores are 3, 2, 3, instead of 2, 2, 2.

Quote from: Salacious AngelThis system kicks ass so far, and I'm seriously contemplating using it for Dystopia.

It's very simple, and yet it makes so much sense.[/quote]One issue though: the fact that Nick's health is limited by his speed (to the point where, despite having Guts 5 and Brawn 4, his Health is still 2!!!) makes little sense to me, considering how strong and durable he otherwise is.  It would make more sense to me if a core quality was the average of the three, so that his scores are 3, 2, 3, instead of 2, 2, 2.[/quote]of necessity[/i] be abstracted. So while Nick is built like a (slow) truck, his health is limited by what we can perhaps conceptualize as a difficulty in getting out of harm's way at a crucial moment. Or we can take comfort in the fact that Nick's high Guts score will help keep him from taking damage in the first place, making a lower Health less crippling. Either way, the system isn't perfect.

I instinctively dislike the idea of averaging main Qualities to derive their associated Core Qualities, because it provides no incentive towards balanced and well-rounded characters. Averaged Core Qualities give our hypothetical Nick a perfectly average Health of 3 even with the extreme and improbable Physical Quality array of 1/1/7, which strikes me as more than a little unlikely. Averaged Core Qualities increase by one third for each point of increase in the associated Qualities, which negates a lot of the strategic dilemma surrounding character advancement. I'm not sure how I feel about that.

But here I go rambling again. I'll think about it, and say no more tonight.

Except to point out that some Magic Thoughts are now posted, meaning that the first portion of the magic system is available for your reading pleasure.

I second Angel on averaging for Core Qualities.

Also, this just gives me some awesome pictures in my head.

Quote from: LCMind Over Matter - A mage concentrating on this potent Thought may selectively ignore the laws of nature themselves. This Thought protects a mage against dangers by allowing the mage to treat them as harmless. By exercising Mind Over Matter, the mage may consume poison without consequence, watch arrows pass insubstancially through his body, or harmlessly catch the hewing blade of a sword with a naked hand. This power is taxing in the extreme, however; focusing on Mind Over Matter occupies two points of Focus instead of one, and every injury avoided with this Thought requires the mage to expend one point of Focus or one point of Will. (If doing so is impossible, or if expending a point of Focus would require the mage to drop concentration on Mind Over Matter, the hapless mage suffers injury as normal.)

A mage, with billowing cloak, catching the sword of a hapless swordsman in his bare hand, then letting loose a maniacal laugh.  The swordsman screams like a little girl at this point, and runs away.  While the mage collapses shortly after his opponent has "retreated", he still snickers at the cowardice of his oppnent and the power of a good bluff.

Well, you could use geometric mean instead of arithmetic.

Nah, no one likes cube roots. :P

I agree that averaging really isn't the best solution to the problem - a speed 7 character with practically no guts and brawn logically wouldn't be as hardy as totally average character (besides which, the aesthetic simplicity of the system would be compromised my the mathematics of averaging) - but it seems to me that speed's contribution to staying alive is already covered in the rolls to avoid the hit in the first place, and that guts and brawn play a much larger part in health's stated purpose (defining how much punishment a character can take before his body fails him).  Technically, speed has played its part before the blow even hits.

My interpretation of the relevance of each physical quality relative to Health is thus, in descending order:

Guts
Brawn
Speed

Logically, methinks, guts contributes more to health, so that a speed 1 character with guts 6 and brawn 5 is still a veritable TANK.  Thus, for balance purposes, taking the lowest might be more applicable, but averaging seems a better abstraction of any character's physical state across the board (indicative of their overall commitment to physical development).  I honestly wouldn't use averaging either, but I'd sooner face the ridiculousness of a speed-7 warrior being unjustifiably uber than a tankish warrior being frail simply because he's really slow...

I like this. Not as a substitution for d20 but rather as a substitution for overly complex "universal" systems like GURPS and it's ilk. I am especially fond the Arc system.

And speaking to the current discussion: What about compromising and taking the average of the two lowest qualities?

In that case Nick the Farmer would have
Health 3/ Focus 3/ Will 4. This admittedly still suffers from the 1/1/7 dilemma but to a lesser extent.

Perhaps to prevent 1/1/7s and similar you could limit the highest of any Physical, Mental or Social stat to the sum of it's two lowest attributes?

Thus you could have a 1/1/1 or a 2/2/4 or a 5/8/3.

:cool: BizUMP!

(Says Meeps: "This thread deserves a Bump.")

Live

I'm liking this system a lot. Simpler than many others i've read, which is a good thing.

I went ahead and converted a character from a D&D campaign i'll hopefully be DMing soon into Triad.


This (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheets/view.php?id=8198) is the original, d20, stats.

After some thought, I ended up with this version.

[spoiler=Kazith Janange, Triad Version]

Kazith Janange, Legionnaire of the Swords of Light

Qualities:

Physical (12)
 

Speed - 3

 

Guts - 5

 

Brawn - 4

Mental (10)
 

Wits - 3

 

Lore - 4

 

Wisdom - 3

Social (7)
 

Style - 3

 

Grace - 2

 

Charm - 2

Specialties:

  Swimming - 3
  Macefighting - 2
  Religious Fervor - 1 (I was thinking some kind of bonus when attacking an enemy connected to his church, like a Banite or demon)
  Tracking - 1
  Religious Knowledge - 1 (as before, a bonus only when trying to remember something connected to his religion)
  Riding - 1

[/spoiler]

I hope I did this right. If there's any mechanical points I forgot, tell me.

This took much less time than even the d20 version did. That's nice, especially when making large numbers of a variety of characters or NPCs.
 

I was reading the thread again, and I had a suggestion for you.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonResonance - A mage using this Thought drapes himself with the mantle of authority, lending extraordinary weight to his words. When he speaks while focusing upon Resonance, his voice dances with irresistable undertones and strange echoes, becoming hard to ignore or to disobey. While under the effects of Resonance, a mage may use the Circle Magic Specialization in rolls involving getting and holding the attention of others, or persuading them to follow commands.

Resonance lends the mage a voice of authoritative command or tempting suggestion, not a voice of destruction. Obviously self-destructive commands are ignored, and anyone witnessing them becomes immune to that mage's Resonance for a day and feels that something unnatural and sinister has just happened. More subtle trickery may still work, however, so while a mage may not use Resonance to encourage someone to jump off a balcony, he might successfully persuade the same person to indulge in a glass of (poisoned) wine. Resonance and Obscurity inverse and are mutually exclusive Thoughts, and no mage may use both simultaneously.

Will[/b] with the term "Resolve"?  As you were looking for suggestions and all.

BUUUUUUUUUUUUMP!

Luminous, if you ain't gonna finish this, then by golly I will.  I need it!

(I think I'll organise a playlist with my group for next week)

Funny story! I was thinking about this project last night while trying to sleep, and this morning, the thread is on the front page again. How about that!

I am glad to see some of you have been playing with these ideas and breaking them in. Naturally, I will be very interested in hearing details about what you discover during your testing, whether you are running a game with these mechanics or just setting up a few characters.

With that said, I think this system is probably playable-- almost. If I could be sure the incomplete magic system wasn't going to be needed (or at least not much), I'd be comfortable enough to start a game in this system tonight (if I had the time, which I don't, but that's neither here nor there.)

Here's a short list of the most pressing things that need to be addressed for this system to become really functional:

1. Character Creation/Advancement
Do we even need it, and if so, how should it work? This is probably the least complicated of my concerns, because it seems like it'd boil down to a simple "you have X points to spend on attributes. Go spend them." Time and playtesting may prove me wrong, I guess!

2. Weapons and Equipment
I want to downplay this as much as I can-- I think making a real big deal out of weapon mechanics encourages a pretty silly collect and upgrade attitude among players, and takes the spotlight off the courageous swordsman in favor of his +5 Doomsword of Glowy Doom. For that reason, I'm attracted to the idea of a system where a sword is a sword is a sword-- just a tool to help a warrior actualize his own inner skill.

So I do not intend to write out massive tables of weapon characteristics. In fact, I think I can do just as well with three adjectives, like so:

Weapons which are primarily accurate (like a longbow or an assassin's dagger) add some kind of bonus to checks when they're used to attack-- to see if they hit.

Weapons which are primarily defensive (what a terrible word to use here, but like a fencer's parrying sword) give a similar bonus to checks when they're used to defend-- to swat aside an opponent's blows.

Weapons which are primarily brutal (such as a huge honkin' battleaxe, or a grenade launcher, etc.) do two points of Health damage when they injure somebody, instead of one. Because they may not be graceful, but they sure do mangle their victims!

Some weapons have none of these adjectives (example: "I'm thwacking you with a stick!"), and that's pretty much equivalent to just punching someone. Weapons with two or more (!!!) of these adjectives would be magic weapons, weapons of extremely high quality made by very skilled craftsmen, relics from the gods, or something like that.

3. The Magic System
There is simply no way around this: it's not done. The magic system has three interconnected disciplines (Thought, Gesture, and Inscription), and of these, only Thought is currently usable. The good news is that I have some notes on Gesture (if only I can find them! :yumm:), and that Thought is probably the most interesting of the three anyway. The bad news is that Inscription will probably be the most complex and work-intensive of the three, and I haven't really started on it yet.

The other tricky thing involves character creation and advancement again, because magic works "outside" of the basic system of qualities and specialties. This raises questions like "how much is knowledge of a magic Thought worth?" and "how does a player create a magic-using character?"

The other good news is that magic is totally optional, and if you want to do a game without magic, you neatly sidestep all the problems I just mentioned under point #3.

There are probably some other things that need tweaking, but those are the main ones that come to mind in terms of getting the system off the ground and working. Give me about six hours and I'll check back and see what else I can clean up here. (I'll be stuck at work during that time, and will have internet access and too much time on my hands.)

If you notice something conspicuously absent, please bring it to my attention. ("Hey Luminous, how does this system handle XYZ?") It'll either get you a quick explanation of how something works, or (more likely) prod me into fixing something I didn't know was brokeded (which is good.)

Speaking of questions, Salacious_Angel, any word on that Jade Stage game you were running? If possible, I would still like to hear how it turned out.

I love this - simple, but effective.

The magic system is the best I've seen so far. I love the idea of Resonance - reminds me of the Bene Gesserit, and that's a good thing - and if you were to run a PbP game using this system, even without magic, I'd jump straight in. And that's saying something.

Flexing my creative muscles a bit. Don't mind me.

[spoiler=Everyday Folks]

Quote from:  2[/iMental (11)
Lore: 2
Wits: 5
Wisdom: 4
Focus = 2

Social (8)
Charm: 2
Style: 2
Grace: 4
Will = 2

Specializations:
Gumshoeing: 2
Melodrama: 1

Mental (13)
Lore: 5
Wits: 4
Wisdom: 4
Focus = 4

Social (8)
Charm: 3
Style: 2
Grace: 3
Will = 2

Specializations:
Research: 3
English Grammar and Spelling: 2
Library Science: 2
Enforcing Quiet: 3[/quote][spoiler=Jade Stage Characters]

Quote from:  2[/iMental (11)
Lore: 3
Wits: 3
Wisdom: 5
Focus = 3

Social (10)
Charm: 3
Style: 4
Grace: 3
Will = 3

Specializations:
Naturalism: 1
Brawling: 2
History: 4
Circle Magic: 1

Magic:
Circlesight
Arc Aspect
Awareness

Mental (9)
Lore: 2
Wits: 3
Wisdom: 4
Focus =

Social (16)
Charm: 5
Style: 6
Grace: 5
Will = 5

Specializations:
Negotiations: 3
Trustworthiness:1
Swordsmanship: 1
Discerning Lies: 2
[/quote][spoiler=Cheezy Science Fiction]

Quote from:  1[/iMental (7)
Lore: 2
Wits: 3
Wisdom: 2
Focus = 2

Social (9)
Charm: 2
Style: 5
Grace: 2
Will = 2

Specializations:
Kava-Synth Performance: 4
Schmoozing: 2
Space Piloting: 1

Mental (10)
Lore: 3
Wits: 5
Wisdom: 2
Focus = 2

Social (8)
Charm: 4
Style: 2
Grace: 2
Will = 2

Specializations:
Infantry Tactics: 4
Space Piloting: 1
Laser Marksmanship: 3
Intimidation: 2

Equipment:
Military ID
Phasor Rifle (accurate)[/quote]

Hoo rah!  Loving those characters (just wrote up a few of my own; it only took around one or two minutes to create each).  I particularly like the specializations: schmoozing, melodrama and enforcing quiet.  Better than a skill system, any day.

I'm still anguishing over the whole "core quality equals lowest primary quality", though; neither that nor my alternative "average" seems satisfying to me (though I still prefer the latter).  Gor of Iro has Physical 2,5,4, for a total attribution of 11 points.  Ruth, on the other hand, has 2,2,2, for a total of 6.  I can't conceive of a badass boru bouncer going down as quickly as a bookworm - it just makes no sense.

Regardless, I'll playtest both and see which one works out best.

Also, in answer to your Jade Stage question: I'm writing up a narrative version of the session.  It'll appear at around the same time as I get around to posting Iounennion.

I toyed with the idea of listing a bunch of pre-brainstormed Specializations, but decided against it. I like the idea of a fleible system there, though a few of them are obviously a little comedically-aimed. (I'm not even sure what a Melodrama stat would actually be used for.) I think the main pitfall here would be a tendency to let them become too broad, but I think it's easier and more in the spirit of the system to leave it up to individual GMs to disallow catchall specializations like "Kicking Your Ass."

QuoteI'm still anguishing over the whole "core quality equals lowest primary quality", though; neither that nor my alternative "average" seems satisfying to me (though I still prefer the latter). Gor of Iro has Physical 2,5,4, for a total attribution of 11 points. Ruth, on the other hand, has 2,2,2, for a total of 6. I can't conceive of a badass boru bouncer going down as quickly as a bookworm - it just makes no sense.

supposition[/u] is that Health is going to be less important to overall combat survival than using qualities and specialties to avoid being wounded in the first place. The actual mechanics in action may or may not end up supporting that hypothesis, but the way I hope and assume it will work means that Gor won't "go down" as quickly as Ruth at all, because his high Guts and his Brawling skill should help him avoid taking wounds.

(Or maybe I just did a really lousy job of statting out somebody who's supposed to hold his own in combat. I wrote this system, but that shouldn't lead anybody to assume that I'm any good at using it. :yumm: )

But like you say, it's really going to be a matter of playtesting and seeing how it works. I'm not totally satisfied with the "core = lowest of the three" system either, but it appeals to me most out of all the candidates so far.

The combat system seems to be shaping up to be pretty bloody. (Not that I mind.) While you could potentially raise your Health as high as 7, lower values predominate, and if "brutal" weapons hack off two Health points per injury, it's going to be really difficult for anybody to take multiple wounds and keep on going.

I have a few more things to say about combat (or more broadly, about conflict-resolution rolls, whether it's violent or otherwise.) I'll try to get that posted before I leave work tonight, in the interest of playtesting.

New post full of ideas, mostly related to combat. Check above for Reactivity, and for the Rule of Seven.

Oh, and Salacious_Angel... [spoiler]The Memory of Malice - A magic-user armed with this savage Thought shapes his anger into a weapon. While concentrating on the Memory of Malice, he may assault any creature he can see with an invisible mental force, and may include his Circle Magic specialization as part of the roll.

These attacks count as "brutal" weapons and inflict two points of Health damage as well as one point of Focus damage on a successful roll. However, on a failed roll, the attacker takes one point of Health damage as he is savaged by his own violent emotions run amok.[/spoiler]

Hell yeaaah!  You do me proud, boy.

Edit: You might wish to add to Memory of Malice that the Thought requires actual hatred.  Whether or not the caster's thoughts qualify as hatred is left to the player and GM to decide, but I always had in mind that the sorcery of the cechalopods required powerful emotive force.

I'm not entirely sure about that, though.  It could, on the other hand, be an expression of unprejudiced, universal hate.

Concerning the Core Qualities, what does anyone think about having them totally separate from the general Qualities?  In this model, every character starts with 3 Health, Focus and Will, and one can increase/reduce the number of a single Core Quality by one by paying three points.

For example, Alice begins creating her character with the following generic stats:

Health: 3
Focus: 3
Will: 3

Physical (9)
Speed: 3
Guts: 3
Brawn: 3

Social (9)
Style: 3
Grace: 3
Charm: 3

Mental (9)
Wits: 3
Lore: 3
Wisdom: 3

She wants her character, Ladayle, to be somewhat physically wanting, with a seeming inability to "inhabit" her social surroundings.  She's also rather unschooled, but her travels have lent her a good deal of wisdom and she is an uncommonly sophisticated sorcerer.

So she constructs her character as follows:

Health: 3
Focus: 4
Will: 3

Physical (7)
Speed: 3
Guts: 2
Brawn: 2

Social (8)
Style: 3
Grace: 2
Charm: 3

Mental (9)
Wits: 3
Lore: 2
Wisdom: 4

We can see that her Qualities are three below average; a seemingly unremarkable human being.  But Alice has sunk those three missing points into an increase to her Focus, giving Ladayle an uncommon gift for the arcane and the capacity to grasp the Secrets of the Arc in a fashion most humans could not.

Of course, a number of problems with this method arise straight off the bat.  Are the Core Qualities worth three times the general ones?  If so, how does the DM prevent Munchkinism, whereby players reduce their Focus and Will, piling the points into their Health and their General Qualities? (This would most likely be solved by making Focus and Will as valuable to a non-magical player as a magical one) And does it even make sense to separate the Core Qualities from their respective general ones?!?

As you can probably tell, I'm still hunting for alternatives to the "lowest quality determines core quality" mechanic. (I'm pretty sure I want to use Triad for Dystopia, and this is probably the one thing that bugs me about the system)

Oh yeah, and 'bump'.

I don't like separating the core qualities from the general ones, as I'm quite fond of such a connection.  It just feels right.  

One thing that I think you're right about is the need to make Focus and Will valuable to non-magical characters.  Might I suggest some neutral mechanics that utilize these stats, or perhaps more "martial" uses for the stats?

(Helping to bump)

Will seems like it might already be useful in resisting things, whether you can use it offensively or not. I don't so much know about focus...

Hi, all. I've been scarce around here lately due to schoolwork, but still keeping my eye on things. I was thinking about this project the other day, and lo and behold, there's new discussion here. How about that.

Anyway, I'm still torn regarding core qualities, but S_A's proposition intrigues me. However, like Crit,

Quote from: CritOne thing that I think you're right about is the need to make Focus and Will valuable to non-magical characters. Might I suggest some neutral mechanics that utilize these stats, or perhaps more "martial" uses for the stats?

re the Core Qualities worth three times the general ones?[/quote]all[/i] stats, including magic stuff, is something I haven't really worked on.

QuoteIf so, how does the DM prevent Munchkinism, whereby players reduce their Focus and Will, piling the points into their Health and their General Qualities?]

want[/i] to do that, I'd say that's their prerogative. However, not all conflicts can be resolved by fighting, and players who deliberately make their characters into one-trick-ponies may find they have made things very difficult for themselves in other situations.

Also note that there are definite benefits to playing a well-rounded character when it becomes necessary to think on one's feet-- that's why Reactivity is part of Triad System.

Quote(Although, it seems it'd probably be more efficient in this case for Gor to simply improve his Speed, if he wants more Health.)

always[/i] be better to improve all three general qualities by one, because this in particular will raise your minimum by one, thus raising your core quality by one. Even if increasing a core quality costs only two points, it will still be more efficient to spend those on general qualities except when your three general qualities are all equal (and even then one might prefer to increase all three and the core quality at the cost of three points rather than just the core quality at the cost of two points).

This would reduce core qualities to a cost of one point, which doesn't seem desirable.

So I'd say the compromise suggested by LC is problematic.

Túrin

What if Health was a point pool expended willingly by the character the same same way Focus and Will are?  There are three levels of injury - for this example, let's say that they are battered, wounded and maimed - and an uninjured character has no levels.  When a character is successfully injured, he suffers a level of injury, until he has suffered four levels (bringing him from uninjured to incapacitated/dead/whatever).  Upon suffering injury (that is, before his next action), a character can expend a point of Health in order to ignore its effects.

So here we have Nick (Luminous' character from the original combat example), who has just been landed a rather fierce punch by a raging drunkard.  The fist flies true, but Nick rolls with the strike, and what might have otherwise been a telling blow yields only an unattractive bruise.  He expends a point of Health and now has 1 left (but is uninjured).

With this method, it'd probably be best if each degree of injury came with some kind of penalty (or penalties).  That way, the Health Points won't end up simply being additional levels of injury; rather, they will be efforts to avoid the grievous effects of injury.

[spoiler=Dystopian Dramatis Personae]There aren't many ships on the waters nowadays.  Aeronautics and thaumaturgy being what they are, it seems everyone's eager to take to the skies.  But a seaship has its uses.  For one, people hardly think to look there.  You can smuggle damn-near anything from Solbesht to Loega and the Lords won't bat an eyelid.  And besides, the Eynur's garnered a fair few enemies amidst the clouds.

[ic]Better to risk the choking fog, the scathing rain, the callous whispers of the Dead-Men-Under... no one said being a merchant was easy.
[/ic]
Dassan
The captain of The Eynur, Dassan's been in more battles than just about any merchant you can name.  Heâ,¬,,¢s copped himself no less than four scars from a blighted cephalofere blade, had his heart replaced twice and lost half his skull to a naval cannon (thatâ,¬,,¢s more than enough to earn him a quaff or two at any pub in the west nations).  But for all the ferocity of his appearance, heâ,¬,,¢s a tired man, and as soon he squares his debt with the Ligrassando, heâ,¬,,¢s pulling ashore for good.

Physical (11)
Speed: 3
Guts: 4
Brawn: 4
Health = 3

Mental (10)
Lore: 3
Wits: 4
Wisdom: 3
Focus = 3

Social (7)
Charm: 2
Style: 2
Grace: 3
Will = 2

Specializations:
Marksman: 1
Commerce: 2
Swordsmanship: 2

Augmentations
Hawkeye: Dassanâ,¬,,¢s shattered skull has been replaced, in part, by an enruned ceramic artifice that enhances his sense of sight.  This counts as a 1-point â,¬Å"visionâ,¬Â specialization, applicable to any rolls involving sight.

Iannan
Dassanâ,¬,,¢s second in command, Iannan has been with the Eynur as long as its captain.  Heâ,¬,,¢s decidedly more â,¬Å"intactâ,¬Â than his comrade, having only lost a finger in the course of his career (which he insists on not replacing), but after straying too close to a viskke razorship heâ,¬,,¢s suffered his fair share of emotional damage.  That doesnâ,¬,,¢t make him any less of a talker; he could lie the arms right off a squid.

Physical (8)
Speed: 3
Guts: 3
Brawn: 2
Health = 2

Mental (7)
Lore: 2
Wits: 3
Wisdom: 2
Focus = 2

Social (10)
Charm: 3
Style: 4
Grace: 3
Will = 3

Specializations:
Deception: 3
Marksman: 1

Equipment
Holdout pistol
â,¬Å"Unluckyâ,¬Â coin

Mitri
Iannan found this rusting simulacrum floating in the water north of Youllaine, and after a little polish and repairs named his new creation Mitri.  Heâ,¬,,¢s an adequate companion and worker, though his arcane curiosity has caused the crew more than a few headaches.  Heâ,¬,,¢s also frighteningly good with a sabreâ,¬Â¦

Physical (13)
Speed: 5
Guts: 4
Brawn: 4
Health = 4

Mental (8)
Lore: 2
Wits: 4
Wisdom: 2
Focus = 2

Social (6)
Charm: 2
Style: 2
Grace: 2
Will = 2

Specializations:
Circle Magic: 1
Swordsmanship: 4

Magic:
Circlesight[/spoiler]

Quote from: Salacious AngelWhat if Health was a point pool expended willingly by the character the same same way Focus and Will are?  There are three levels of injury - for this example, let's say that they are battered, wounded and maimed - and an uninjured character has no levels.  When a character is successfully injured, he suffers a level of injury, until he has suffered four levels (bringing him from uninjured to incapacitated/dead/whatever).  Upon suffering injury (that is, before his next action), a character can expend a point of Health in order to ignore its effects.

So here we have Nick (Luminous' character from the original combat example), who has just been landed a rather fierce punch by a raging drunkard.  The fist flies true, but Nick rolls with the strike, and what might have otherwise been a telling blow yields only an unattractive bruise.  He expends a point of Health and now has 1 left (but is uninjured).

With this method, it'd probably be best if each degree of injury came with some kind of penalty (or penalties).  That way, the Health Points won't end up simply being additional levels of injury; rather, they will be efforts to avoid the grievous effects of injury.

I liked this idea so much that I let it marinate in my head for a few days, did a little writeup... and then realized the writeup was virtually identical to your post, here. I did come up with a few minor specifics, but I really want to take your idea and run with it.

Here's the lowdown:

Injury Levels
Uninjured - No penalty, because you are A-OK! This probably needs a better name?
Wounded - Ow! Your injury makes it difficult to cope. You can use a maximum of two Qualities and Specialties for rolls (instead of three), until you are healed.
Maimed - You are pretty badly mangled! You can use a maximum of one Quality or Specialty for rolls (instead of three), until you are healed. Seek medical attention.
Killed - You have shuffled off this mortal coil. Hope your affairs were in order.

Take a hit, and you drop one rung down the "ladder." Note that being Wounded or Maimed is very, very bad because you become much more likely to lose rolls (and take further wounds.)

Spending a point of Health (maybe this should be called Vitality or something, if we're using it this way?) prevents you from dropping down the ladder when you take a hit, essentially allowing you to ignore the effects of a wound. When you run out of Health (Vitality?), you become Weary, which means you treat all your Qualities and Specialties as one point lower than their actual value when you use them for rolls. (That might be a dumb mechanic, and might need to be changed!) Of more pressing concern is probably the grim reality that you will be unable to mitigate further damage suffered without any Health to expend.

There needs to be a system in place for recovering lost points of Health (similar to the ways Focus and Will are recovered; see previous posts), and it should probably be different than the way actual injuries are healed. Health, in this case, would represent physical energy, tirelessness, adrenaline, pain threshold, and/or sheer bloody-mindedness, while injury levels would represent how mangled a character's body actually is.

The really good things about this idea include its symmettry; I like the way spendable Health now more closely resembles Focus and Will in function. I also like the introduction of penalties for being wounded, which make battle a much riskier proposition, (although these specific penalties may prove to be too harsh.)

The somewhat problematic things are mostly minor, but the "gracelessness" of this system bothers me a little. By this I mean that there is no real incentive for a player to strategically "save" Health (Vitality?) rather than to spend it at the earliest possible opportunity. This basically makes the whole system shape up to a matter of every character having (Health + 3) hit points, with injury penalties for the last few only. I would like to come up with a way to introduce a little more decision-making crisis into the system, so that players might sometimes find it advantageous to just suck it up, take the wound, and save the Health for a more serious situation.

I note that Health is currently spent only passively (in reaction to being hit.) Maybe if it were also used actively, that would solve the above problem? What if a character could spend a point of Health to make some sort of extraordinary exertion, for those situations where you really have to jump that chasm, escape that burning building, dodge that axe swinging at your head, or plant that arrow in the ogre's eye. Perhaps such an expenditure would add dice to a roll?

Then again, we still have the Lowest Quality problem, where a guy like Gor of Iro who is strong, tough, and slow has less Health (Vitality?) than you'd expect a strong, tough guy to have. However, I think that tying actual injury to a fixed scale as Salacious suggested would mitigate this somewhat. After all, everybody dies if you cut them enough.

Thoughts?

Vitality is a great name for the quality.  It evokes a sense of utility in a way that Health cannot (Health seems a more "inert" concept, something you possess but do not use), as well as being akin to an energy/force of sorts. (Will and Focus can be construed in such a way as well, and if either of their names were eventually changed I'd suggest choosing a name that continued to provide such connotations)

I'm glad you like the injury levels idea, and agree with all the issues raised.  In terms of recovery, I'd actually suggest Vitality/Health recovering at a faster rate than the other qualities, maybe even after every conflict (or perhaps "scene").  That way, they could conceivably commit one or two points in a given engagement towards avoiding injury, and have one left over for whatever particularly heroic action they might undertake.

On a different note, the Triad system got me thinking about Description Based Task Resolution.  It seems the system needs a clear way of identifying when a given quality can be used, and I think basing it on Description and Justification might be a step towards resolving the issue.

This involves less rigid combat, where a given roll might not simply involve a specific singular action but represent the resolution of a complex description.

For example, a swordsman, executing a deft feint, announces "I let out a sharp cry as I fake a wild thrust at his shoulder, then lash out with a kick to his gut."  Here, he uses Sword, Style and Brawn; Sword for his understanding of the convincing implementation of his weapon in a bluff, Style to motivate his opponent into taking the attack more seriously than it is, and Brawn for the ensuing kick.

It's a single roll, but representative of numerous actions.  (Also, three descriptive elements is usually the right amount to make something look bad-ass without being cumbersome)

When you can't justify the use of any more than one quality, then you still use the other two dice, but they are unmodified.  Therefore, a character climbing a rope while bracing against a wall might simply roll Brawn (4), thus rolling 3d6+4 as he gains no bonuses to the other two dice.

But say the same character, while climbing the rope, begins to be pursued, he might then be justified in adding the modifiers of other qualities (probably just using all three physical qualities, or expending a point of Vitality to bypass the roll altogether).

The "double action" effect of Focus expenditure could also be enhanced here.  It might allow a character to roll twice in their own turn, thus allowing a particularly complex (and therefore exponentially awesome) heroic description.

Lastly, I'll provide a final argument for the "Averaged Qualities" mechanic, from a tangential approach that might change the way you look at it:

"Each point invested in any physical quality represents a strengthening of one's Vitality, the inherent preservative force in all living things.  For every three points invested (in any combination), a character gains a point of Vitality."

Each quality strengthens Vitality in a different way: a speedy character is possessed of such swiftness that when the seemingly unavoidable blow is hurtling toward them a preternatural quickness propels them from harm's way without thought; a brawny or gutsy character just takes the blow - and laughs.

Generally, it's a combination of the three (dodging gracefully away so a the blow that would have cleaved his arm off makes a superficial bloodless cut), but a character who is literally "all muscle" might defy an attack through a truly implausible display of impermeability, if the circumstances warrant it.

Why don't I think it's that big a difference when a character gains Vitality by putting all his chips in Speed (for example)?  Because someone who is all speed and no guts is as good as dead, and I think any player would realise that and sensibly work to counter it so long as each quality was made invaluable (harder to do, I think, with the social and mental ones).

I have little to add, but my approval of all things said in the last two posts.  As always, I'm watching with glee and waiting anxiously for the day this simple yet utilitarian system can be used in my games.

Keep up the good work guys!

Well, I should point out that Luminous hasn't yet approved anything my last post.

I'm also waiting anxiously, as I would love for this to be the system for Dystopia.

QuoteI'm glad you like the injury levels idea, and agree with all the issues raised. In terms of recovery, I'd actually suggest Vitality/Health recovering at a faster rate than the other qualities, maybe even after every conflict (or perhaps "scene"). That way, they could conceivably commit one or two points in a given engagement towards avoiding injury, and have one left over for whatever particularly heroic action they might undertake.

On a different note, the Triad system got me thinking about Description Based Task Resolution. It seems the system needs a clear way of identifying when a given quality can be used, and I think basing it on Description and Justification might be a step towards resolving the issue.[/quote](Also, three descriptive elements is usually the right amount to make something look bad-ass without being cumbersome)[/quote]how[/i] you're carrying out your combat. I do find "I cry out and feint with the sword, then kick him!" to be more interesting than "I attack."

QuoteLastly, I'll provide a final argument for the "Averaged Qualities" mechanic, from a tangential approach that might change the way you look at it:

all[/i] the discussion on the calculation of spendable stats from core Qualities has involved Physical Qualities and Health (now Vitality), and never anything social or mental. I wonder if this might be due in part to our notions of what Health/Vitality does in terms of keeping people alive (since Focus and Willpower seem more abstract than "are you dead or not?"), and whether the adoption of wound levels and a new role for Vitality make this whole debate somewhat less urgent.

But yeah, I'll think it over some more.

QuoteAs always, I'm watching with glee and waiting anxiously for the day this simple yet utilitarian system can be used in my games.

I'm also waiting anxiously, as I would love for this to be the system for Dystopia. [/quote]Question for the day:[/b]
Salacious addressed one of my longtime unvoiced concerns about character stats by including the following in a Dystopia character writeup:

QuoteAugmentations
Hawkeye: Dassan's shattered skull has been replaced, in part, by an enruned ceramic artifice that enhances his sense of sight. This counts as a 1-point "vision"Â specialization, applicable to any rolls involving sight.

Specializations:
Vision: 1[/quote]what character attributes might Triad System need to describe, which can not be suitably described by Qualities and Specialties?[/b]

Magic is one of them, I think. I still need to work on that whole branch of the mechanics, but I think it'd justified in being somewhat separate from Qualities and Specialties.

Do we need to describe anything else that way?

Quote from: Luminous CrayonI agree. Thought it might be a little much, I'd be keen to experiment with Vitality recovery that happens whenever a character gets a break from fighting, even mid-scene. You can see it happen cinematically, when one character ducks around a corner to catch his breath, disarms his opponent to earn a few seconds of relaxation, or what have you. This would have the potential to make Vitality a very "fast moving" resource, which would be expended and recovered easily (ensuring that players are more likely to spend it.)

I note with interest that all the discussion on the calculation of spendable stats from core Qualities has involved Physical Qualities and Health (now Vitality), and never anything social or mental. I wonder if this might be due in part to our notions of what Health/Vitality does in terms of keeping people alive (since Focus and Willpower seem more abstract than "are you dead or not?"), and whether the adoption of wound levels and a new role for Vitality make this whole debate somewhat less urgent.[/quote]I don't know what the two of you are waiting for, really. The system as-is is somewhat rudimentary, but I think it's complete enough to be usable right now. If you want to try it out, I could definitely use the opinions of people who've actually playtested it a bit.[/quote]Question for the day:
What I want to know is, what character attributes might Triad System need to describe, which can not be suitably described by Qualities and Specialties?

Magic is one of them, I think. I still need to work on that whole branch of the mechanics, but I think it'd justified in being somewhat separate from Qualities and Specialties.

Do we need to describe anything else that way?[/quote]
Good question...

I'll give it a good thinking-over and get back to you.

On incentives to hold out rather than spend health... consider using something other than health. "Heroism" or something that can be spent on other things, or which determines the power level of other things. What these things are would vary with a character's abilities. Alternately, they could work the same for all players... kinda like action poins.

In either case, it isn't just some other penalty being accrued, but a resource being spent.

And I agree on the name vitality, over health. Especially if it is used as a resource for other things than just stalling wounds.

So, I've been trying to visualize how this would work when actually played, and I think it would lend itself well to a minimal apparatus of cards and tokens. I say this because I appreciate having something tactile to work with (I think it's more useful and satisfying than crossing off marks on a sheet of paper), and because I think it seems to mesh well with the way actions and Focus work.

For an example, let's use Dassan (from Salacious's "Dystopian Dramatis Personae" post, above.) Dassan's player might have an index card that says "Speed: 3", another that says "Wits: 4", another that says "Style: 2", and so on, for all his Qualities and Specialties. He might also have a number of tokens for Vitality, Focus, and Will.

For maximal suspense, let us imagine that Dassan is trying to sail his ship safely through a terrible storm, at night, avoiding the nearby jagged rocks. Also, he and his crew are fending off an attack by horrible sea-beasts.

Dassan's player decides to pull the ship hard to port, in an attempt to avoid the deadly shoals. He uses Vision (to spot rocks in time to avoid them), Wits (to anticipate and compensate for the roiling waves), and Brawn (to make the rudder bend to his will.) Dassan's player tosses those cards from his hand down upon the playing surface and makes his roll. [note=Yeah okay]I need to figure out how this works, exactly[/note]The cards will stay there, temporarily inaccessible, until {the end of the turn/the action they're used for is over/something.}

Just then, a wave breaks over the side of the ship, carrying several cruelly-armed creatures with it. They writhe across the surface of the deck on malformed tentacles, moving to attack the crew. One heads straight for Dassan, who tries to defend himself (while still manning the helm and steering the ship away from harm, we hope.)

Now, Dassan's options are limited, because he's already in the middle of steering the ship (and consequently, because some of his cards are already on the table.) Using some of the remaining cards still in his hand, Dassan's player devises a reaction. He uses Vision (to notice his assailant with enough time to react), Lore (he knows the tactics these monsters use, since he's fought them before), and Speed (to get out of the way of the first blow, just in the nick of time.) He can use Vision, even though he just used it in the ship-steering roll, because it's a Specialty.

Brawn and Wits might have been useful against the monster, but they're on the table at the moment. At any time, Dassan's player could cash in a Focus token to pick up all his cards that are on the table (and if any more catastrophes happen right now, he may have to.) He currently has five cards on the table: Brawn, Speed, Wits, Lore, and Vision. Whether or not he spends a Focus point first, he will get to pick them back up at the start of the next {turn/scene/something I haven't figured out yet.}

The various props aren't necessary, of course. But they're uncomplicated, and I think they make complex actions (e.g., combat) easier to understand.

A Victim of Circumstance
Temporary conditions make conflict fun!

Let's face it-- the world is unpredictable. Sometimes fate seems to conspire against us, and keep us from success we know we might otherwise have reached. We look back and say to ourselves, "If only the sun hadn't been in my eyes that day, if only I hadn't been off-balance for that split second, if only my confidence hadn't been so terribly shaken... I would certainly have succeeded."

Likewise, sometimes events seem to arrange themselves so precisely, so perfectly, that we succeed at things we would have thought impossible.

Here is my attempt to create such a potential in Triad System.

Circumstances - Temporary Attributes

[note=This Is Very Hard]I am pretty sure this concept has potential, but is in serious need of refinement. Please rip it to shreds for me, 'kay? I will build a giant robot from aforementioned shreds.[/note]Circumstances are temporary labels that can be applied to a character. Creative players may use them for boon or for bane, but most are not inherently helpful or harmful. Narrator oversight is recommended to ensure Circumstances don't spiral out of control, but players are encouraged to use them creatively.

Adding a Circumstance

The Narrator should always be the final arbiter of when a circumstance gets added, and how it works. Many Circumstances are added to characters by the Narrator directly-- for example, if players are on the deck of a storm-tossed ship as an enormous wave impacts the starboard rail, the Narrator might give the characters a Circumstance like "Off-Balance" for a turn or two. Sometimes, characters give Circumstances to each other-- a clever dueling fencer might succeed at giving his rival a Circumstance such as "Overconfident," "Tired Out," or even "Disarmed."

In general, a Circumstance should be something temporary and not debilitating, and players should often have potential to use even "harmful" labels to their advantage-- making the best of bad Circumstances.

When the Narrator adds a Circumstance as part of a scene, it's as simple as making a statement. In some cases, players might get a roll to try and avoid it. (For example, in the storm-tossed ship example above, players on deck might avoid becoming "Off-Balance" with successful rolls to demonstrate their agility and bloody-mindedness, or a Narrator might decide that a character with a Specialization like "Seafaring" doesn't need to worry about the big wave at all.)

When characters try to add Circumstances to each other, common sense and an opposed roll are involved. In the case of the dueling swordsmen, one combatant might spend an action feigning ineptitude to cause his foe to become Overconfident. Pending Narrator approval and a successful opposed roll (perhaps Wits+Charm+Grace vs. Wits+Lore+Swashbuckling?), the Circumstance is applied.

[note=Favorable Circumstances]Safeguard clause to prevent ludicrous scenes such as the players preparing for a tough challenge by "buffing" themselves with as many nice Circumstances as they can think of, via shallow compliments, cheesy pep-talks, and the Power of Positive Thinking.[/note]Really favorable Circumstances (the kind that players don't contest) should rarely be applied by other players. They arise by magic, by powerful scenes, or almost by chance-- when an innocuous action has unexpected beneficial consequences. (In fact, the Narrator can reward exceptional storytelling among his players by tying positive Circumstances to some of their most noteworthy actions.) A dying mentor's last words might give a disciple a Circumstance like "Determined to Avenge John", or a fair damsel's smile might grace a young knight with a Circumstance like "Inspired." (Then again, if the damsel is false and cruel and the knight is naive and trusting, maybe "Distracted.")

Using Circumstances

Circumstances themselves aren't inherently bad or good (though some might be thornier than others) -- it's all in how you use them. Players can use their own Circumstances in rolls, or can call on opponents' Circumstances to hinder opponents' rolls, provided they can make the Circumstance fit the action at hand.

When using your own Circumstances favorably, you combine them in rolls just like Qualities and Specialties. [note]I am still unsure about this mechanic. Oh, well.[/note] Circumstances don't have numbers attached to them, but using a Circumstance lets you reroll your lowest die once-- after all, relying on Circumstance involves trusting fortune more than personal skill.

For example, the abovementioned knight jousting for his beloved's honor might charge into battle with Brawn, Guts, and Wits (rolling 3 + 4 + 3 + 3d6), Or he might use Brawn, Guts, and his Inspired status (rolling 3 + 4 + 3d6, but rerolling the lowest.) Like Specialties, Circumstances can be used as often as they are relevant (handy, since they are usually quite ephemeral.)

Likewise, a fencer who has been given a Circumstance such as "Knocked Down" by his opponent might still use the situation to his advantage. Even though his opponent knocked him down in an attempt to make him lose the fight, a clever and tenacious combatant might try a roll like Charm+Speed+Knocked Down to sneakily sweep his adversary's feet out from under him. (Then they might both be Knocked Down. How amusing!)

Your Opponent's Circumstances

Circumstances can be harmful as well as beneficial, and it is up to a character's Player opponents or Narrator opponents to call them into play to hinder actions when they are relevant. When used in this way, a Circumstance effectively blocks one of a character's Qualities or Specialties, making it unusable for certain actions.

For example, a player who is Tangled Up in rope or underbrush might be unable to use his Speed (and will be more wary in the future in situations involving fighting in dense jungles or around coiled lines on the decks of ships.) Likewise, a guard who is Distracted might find Wits is off-limits for noticing intruders, or a lawyer who is Nervous might not be able to benefit from his Style. In more general cases, such as the Overconfident fencer, a Narrator might decide that the highest relevant stat is off-limits, but the Overconfidence disappears as soon as it causes a serious mistake. On the other hand, a Disarmed swordsman might have his Swordplay specialty off-limits until he gets his weapon back-- which might take a while.

Doing Away with Circumstances

Sometimes, when you're Demoralized, Disenfranchised, Crestfallen, Unlucky, Jinxed, Hexed, and On Fire, there's nothing you'd rather do than get rid of your negative Circumstances. The way to do so depends on the situation.

Deal with it directly: If you're Starving, eat. If you're Disarmed, recover your sidearm. If you're On Fire, stop, drop, and roll. Sometimes the easiest solution is simply to put a stop to the problem at the source.

Use an action and an appropriate point. You might spend a point of Vitality to recover if you're Fatigued, Off-Balance, Nauseated, or Numbed. A point of Focus might cure a character who is Confused, Distracted, Fuzzy-Headed, or even Hung Over, while a point of Will might do the trick if you're Crestfallen, Nervous, Despairing or Despondent.

Alternately, if you got such a status because you failed a roll, you might take a turn to re-roll that challenge in an attempt to shake off the resulting Circumstance.

Time Cures All Things. Sometimes Circumstances have to simply work themselves out, and an afflicted character has few options but to sit tight and wait for that to happen. It just might take a tragic mistake to cure an Overconfident person, or concrete evidence to stop someone from being Duped By Lies. The way to remove an Ancient Voodoo Curse might be tricky indeed, but perhaps a simple kind word from an unexpected quarter might end Broken-Heartedness.

The Big Idea

The point of this is to make the game more interesting, and to encourage players to get creative in their tactics, and in their ways of interacting with other characters and their environments. Circumstances open up the field quite wide in combat situations, turn social cattery into a move/countermove chess tournament, and give players some more colorful ways to affect things-- always a desirable goal.

[ooc]Thoughts? Opinions?[/ooc]

First things first, I'm a little concerned about the clarity and distinctiveness of the Qualities, in particular Style, Grace and Wisdom.  The first two don't seem to be as explicit in their purpose as the others: Charm, for example, is basically your straight up persuasiveness, while Grace and Style seem to be reflections of each other (Grace helps you look like you belong, Style helps you look like you belong at the top).  They both make sense, but I'm not sure if they're as clear as Brawn or Lore.  Grace could be construed as a kind of "intuitive social lore", encompassing an understanding of rules of deportment, courtesy, timing, vernacular, and so on, which would help solidify its status as a Quality.  Style, however, seems to share a lot in common with Charm.  What does it do that Charm cannot, and vice versa?

I was almost sure what Wisdom was for, but then I reread Wits, and noticed that it encompassed solving a Wizard's riddles, something that seemed to come under the purview of Wisdom: "a person with high Wits might be able to notice hidden clues, but sometimes only a person with high Wisdom can figure out what all the clues mean."

A clarification of that would be nice.

Also, I propose an alternative function for Focus.  Seeing as it is the representation of a character's all-round social ability, would it not make sense for it to augment social actions?  So a character uses Focus (which would be terribly named for this purpose) in order to tell egregious falsehoods, the likes of which no-one would otherwise believe, or to persuade foes hell bent on skinning them alive.

In a more general vein, all three Core Qualities could be restricted to the domain of their constituents.  You can only use Will to succeed against psychological adversity (perhaps to stay awake for three nights straight scouring ancient texts without effect), and Vitality/Health/whatever for feats of physical prowess.

It might also be a good idea to have two representations of the Core Quality.  One represents its relative health - how much physical/social/mental damage you can take; the other represents its relative power - how much awesomeness it can dish out.  So the core physical quality is Health (passive) and Vitality (active): the former identifies resistance to punishment, the latter identifies one's inner physical reserve.

Both the passive and active core qualities could be equal to the lowest of its constituent  Qualities (or the average, depending on who you agree with), or the active could be equal to the lowest while the passive is equal to the total of all three.  For example, Leoshe has Brawn 2, Speed 4 and Guts 3.  Her Vitality is 2 (or 3) and her Health is 9.

Now, on to task resolution.  The idea of using different abilities for different tasks but expressing it in a single roll is a good one, but it also results in a failed roll defeating all of the efforts encompassed in that roll.  So the effectiveness of this system is dependent upon what actions can be grouped together in an action.  For example, Leoshe watches a trio of raiders riding through the rocky valley, and moves to intercept them as they pass her.  From her vantage on a rocky outcrop, she plans to leap from the rocks, utilising her Speed (to get there in time), her Strength (for the necessary force to knock a rider from his mount), and her Acrobatics to augment the action.  If she were to fail, would she not jump far enough, miss the rider or hit him with insufficient force?  Or does the GM arbitrate that?  If she had used Wits (being the expression of general all-round attentiveness) would she have further improved the likelihood of the action's success, or simply altered the narrative outcome of a potential success or failure?

I'll post my thoughts on the physical props when my computer starts being nice to me...

Quote from: Yaji Ash-ShuthathFirst things first, I'm a little concerned about the clarity and distinctiveness of the Qualities, in particular Style, Grace and Wisdom.  The first two don't seem to be as explicit in their purpose as the others: Charm, for example, is basically your straight up persuasiveness, while Grace and Style seem to be reflections of each other (Grace helps you look like you belong, Style helps you look like you belong at the top).  They both make sense, but I'm not sure if they're as clear as Brawn or Lore.  Grace could be construed as a kind of "intuitive social lore", encompassing an understanding of rules of deportment, courtesy, timing, vernacular, and so on, which would help solidify its status as a Quality.  Style, however, seems to share a lot in common with Charm.  What does it do that Charm cannot, and vice versa?

I was almost sure what Wisdom was for, but then I reread Wits, and noticed that it encompassed solving a Wizard's riddles, something that seemed to come under the purview of Wisdom: "a person with high Wits might be able to notice hidden clues, but sometimes only a person with high Wisdom can figure out what all the clues mean."

A clarification of that would be nice.[/quote]a la[/i] Einstein, truly understand another human being, and other difficult feats of comprehension. Wisdom is what lets an old farmer know his fields, his crops, his weather, though he may not be able to articulate how. Wisdom is how a painter understands the nuances of color, though he may never have had an art lesson in his life. Wits, on the other hand, is mental agility. It's wordplay, attentiveness, perception of detail, and logic. Wisdom helps you solve a zen koan, Wits helps you solve your daily Sudoku puzzle.

I guess that to correctly revisit the flawed "riddle" example, Wisdom would help a person arrive at the correct solution, while Wits would help a person realize it was a trick question from the beginning.

I suspect that there will always be a bit of overlap between them, between all mental qualities, just as there will be overlap between the social and mental ones. It's more noticeable in the mental and social ones, I think, because we're all more used to differentiating physical action and prowess into strong/tough/fast already.

QuoteAlso, I propose an alternative function for Focus.  Seeing as it is the representation of a character's all-round social ability, would it not make sense for it to augment social actions?  So a character uses Focus (which would be terribly named for this purpose) in order to tell egregious falsehoods, the likes of which no-one would otherwise believe, or to persuade foes hell bent on skinning them alive.

In a more general vein, all three Core Qualities could be restricted to the domain of their constituents.  You can only use Will to succeed against psychological adversity (perhaps to stay awake for three nights straight scouring ancient texts without effect), and Vitality/Health/whatever for feats of physical prowess.[/quote]It might also be a good idea to have two representations of the Core Quality.  One represents its relative health - how much physical/social/mental damage you can take; the other represents its relative power - how much awesomeness it can dish out.  So the core physical quality is Health (passive) and Vitality (active): the former identifies resistance to punishment, the latter identifies one's inner physical reserve.

Both the passive and active core qualities could be equal to the lowest of its constituent  Qualities (or the average, depending on who you agree with), or the active could be equal to the lowest while the passive is equal to the total of all three.  For example, Leoshe has Brawn 2, Speed 4 and Guts 3.  Her Vitality is 2 (or 3) and her Health is 9.[/quote]Now, on to task resolution.  The idea of using different abilities for different tasks but expressing it in a single roll is a good one, but it also results in a failed roll defeating all of the efforts encompassed in that roll.  So the effectiveness of this system is dependent upon what actions can be grouped together in an action.  For example, Leoshe watches a trio of raiders riding through the rocky valley, and moves to intercept them as they pass her.  From her vantage on a rocky outcrop, she plans to leap from the rocks, utilising her Speed (to get there in time), her Strength (for the necessary force to knock a rider from his mount), and her Acrobatics to augment the action.  If she were to fail, would she not jump far enough, miss the rider or hit him with insufficient force?  Or does the GM arbitrate that?  If she had used Wits (being the expression of general all-round attentiveness) would she have further improved the likelihood of the action's success, or simply altered the narrative outcome of a potential success or failure?[/quote]I'll post my thoughts on the physical props when my computer starts being nice to me...[/quote]As for those, and the Circumstances, and a bevy of other things, I'm very conflicted about them. I feel very conflicted between the extremes of "simple but less useful" and "flexible but overcomplicated."

Quote from: Luminous CrayonI think you may be confusing Focus and Will here. Focus is the mental quality, Will is the social one.

The function of Will already involves spending Will to reroll or auto-succeed failed attempts, so I don't know what else you may be referring to.[/quote]I'm really wary about having things provide bonuses to rolls without testing how much it alters the math. I'm wary of situations where a Will point would give me a 95% chance to thoroughly convince my fiancée that I am actually the Pope's evil twin, returned from my exile in outer space. Spending something like a point of Will should represent a superior effort backed by huge determination and a lot of luck, but the results ought to still be believable (though awesome and super-impressive.) Maybe I'm just a little paranoid.[/quote]This, I'm not so sure about. To me, one of the strong points of appeal for this system has been the ease with which mental and social prowess can augment physical exertions (and so on.) I think it's rather charming that physical endurance might assist a scholar studying for three nights without rest in the ancient library, or that mental acuity might help a warrior deal with threats on a turbulent battlefield. Here as in all cases, oversight should prevent the ridiculous justifications ("My bulging biceps help me know more trivia!")[/quote]
Once again, I agree.  Tying into the idea of dual-purpose core qualities, I am however wondering what the "active" role of "Vitality" would be.  We know what ends Focus and Will can be applied toward, but so far the physical core quality only exists in a passive capacity.

As to the passive purpose of the social and mental, I imagine that damaging a person's Will diminishes their long term confidence and sense of identity.  Perhaps a considerable blow to one's Will in the right context could diminish their social standing (or conversely, an attack on one's power base could diminish their will).  Maybe every character has certain dutes, objects or people they care about.  Attacking those things attacks their Will.

A diminished Focus can cause a reality disconnect; forgetfulness, paranoia... (I'm not really sure what it'd do, actually, just a few examples pulled out of nowhere)