And with strange aeons even death may die.
Four links for any of you H.P. Lovecraft fans out there. This might be eerie if I weren't a sane and rational man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloop
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/11/09/new.island.ap/index.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%27lyeh
http://www.fucoidan-net.com/img/tonga-map.gif
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming."
That's more than a little disturbing.
He comes...
The funny thing about R'lyeh's non-Euclidean geometry is that, ironically, the whole universe inhabits non-euclidean space anyway. Thus, the terror comes not in witnessing the impossible, but rather, witnessing the theoretically unseeable.
Just a slightly different perspective...
There is also a phantom island (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_island) sharing my last name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dougherty) located a little south of the Bloop.
Curiouser and curiouser.
It calls to you.
I know...
Do you suppose Cthulthu would like an agent? Because I'm perfectly willing.
Seriously, though, this doesn't even rate on my "eerie or otherwise frightening" scale. To you it may, but to me there are thousands of things that happen every day on this planet in plain sight that are infinitely more frightening than a god-being with a squid head sitting in a city of weird shapes.
As to the correlation between the Bloop, the possible island, and Lovecraft's Ry'leh, unless someone actually finds that city it's equally possible that Lovecraft just chose the most out-of-the-way place on the planet, and we are only now finding out that there is something there. Not trying to be an annoying doubter here, just want to make sure all the possibilities are stated.
GAH!!! The logic! It burns!
Quote from: Salacious AngelGAH!!! The logic! It burns!
I love doing this to people. :axe:
Certainly a reasonable explanation is in order. The very nature of the things in question here are so horrible as to require a certain amount of censorship on the part of the witness(es), and a certain amount of discretion when talking to the newpapers. Certainly there are many more frightening "real" things we see day to day. Certainly, its just an island formed by a volanco. The bloop is just a bunch of squids singing acapella.
Besides, the bloop and the peices of the island are really far apart. Jeez, way to ruin everyones fun, Silvery Cat with the moon paw.
Quote from: V - L0XBesides, the bloop and the peices of the island are really far apart. Jeez, way to ruin everyones fun, Silvery Cat with the moon paw.
And how am I supposed to know when I going to ruin peoples' fun? Seriously, I could have said what I said and you could have done some "well, that's what
you think" sort of thing. I can't read your minds, and I certainly can't read them over the Internet.
Quote from: V - L0XBesides, the bloop and the peices of the island are really far apart. Jeez, way to ruin everyones fun, Silvery Cat with the moon paw.
you[/i] think" sort of thing. I can't read your minds, and I certainly can't read them over the Internet.
[/quote]I[/i] can. :P
Quote from: Critical ThreatQuote from: V - L0XBesides, the bloop and the peices of the island are really far apart. Jeez, way to ruin everyones fun, Silvery Cat with the moon paw.
you[/i] think" sort of thing. I can't read your minds, and I certainly can't read them over the Internet.
I[/i] can. :P
[/quote]
AaaG! A cultist!
If he's a cultist, then I'm the Colour Out Of Space!!!
But you can't be the Colour! That's my cousin!
Then I guess that makes us related.
Well, you know what they say: You can pick your friends, but you can't possibly survive continued exposure to your relatives.
I like cultists. Cultists you can shoot with a tommy gun. It's alot easier to deal with cultists than it is to deal with Deep Ones.
And SilverCattyMoony Pawdude, I'm just joking. It's cool. That little blurb about "reasonable explanations" was sort-of sarcastic, in that every one of HPL's stories, the witnesses are more-or-less incapable of relating a believable version of their story to the public, either because it's too crazy-sounding or they refuse to expose the truth.
But come on, you know you're just a little scared. Cthulhu is waaaaaay scarier than Bush.
Quote from: V - L0XBut come on, you know you're just a little scared. Cthulhu is waaaaaay scarier than Bush.
I'll believe that when it runs for president.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawI'll believe that when it runs for president.
Touché.
Man, this is awesome. I'm not a Lovecraftian (never read any of his works), but I love, Love, LOVE unexplained mysteries in the world.
Quote from: IshmaylMan, this is awesome. I'm not a Lovecraftian (never read any of his works), but I love, Love, LOVE unexplained mysteries in the world.
You don't know what you're missing. Until the summer I had no knowledge of Lovecraft's works either and honestly I didn't think I missed out on that much, but then I bought an anthology and was amazed. I like him much better than Tolkien or most of Stephen King.
I concur. Another great read if you love the craft of HP is David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus. It's pretty out there.
Okay, someone give me a first good read... I'm game.
Look for anything with The Rats in the Walls, The Music of Erich Zann, The Picture in the House, Pickman's Model, and of course The Call of Cthulhu. Those are some really good ones, and you can find them all (plus a bunch of other good ones like The Colour Out of Space and The Shadow Over Innsmouth [inspiration for The Thing That Should Not Be by Metallica, I believe]) in The Best of H.P. Lovecraft: Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre. That's the same anthology I own.
Quote from: WitchHuntLook for anything with The Rats in the Walls, The Music of Erich Zann, The Picture in the House, Pickman's Model, and of course The Call of Cthulhu. Those are some really good ones, and you can find them all (plus a bunch of other good ones like The Colour Out of Space and The Shadow Over Innsmouth [inspiration for The Thing That Should Not Be by Metallica, I believe]) in The Best of H.P. Lovecraft: Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre. That's the same anthology I own.
so[/i] going on my Christmas list this year...
Reanimator is still my favorite, although Call of Cthulhu is great because of a semi-"King Kong" feel I got from it; it's fairly adventurous
A good anthology is Tales. All the really core mythos stuff, plus everything else that's awexome.
Don't forget to look for "The Shadow out of Time" (which I found surprisingly hard to track down, for some reason). And if giant albino penguins are your thing, nothing beats "In the Mountains of Madness." (No, it's not really about giant albino penguins; the giant albino penguins just have a cameo.)
They currently making a movie out of "Mountains of Madness". I think the director is the same guy who did "Batman Begins" and "The Prestige".
Quote from: V - L0XThey currently making a movie out of "Mountains of Madness". I think the director is the same guy who did "Batman Begins" and "The Prestige".
That could be interesting. Does the movie have an official site yet?
The Shadow Out of Time is in the same book I have, if anyone's wondering.
Yeah... that was a good one.
They're pretty much all good. HP Lovecraft stories are like Pokemon monsters... you must find them all, and when you do you can pick your favorite one and talk on websites on which one is your favorite. "Herbet West I CHOOSE YOU!"
We'll see if that turns out well and dark or ends up being overdone and turning into Cthomedy.
Quote from: IshmaylOkay, someone give me a first good read... I'm game.
My favorite one was The Dreams in the Witch-House, which also happens to be in that
Best of H.P. Lovecraft anthology that everyone is recommending.
Dreamquest of unknown kadath is definitely my favorite.
QuoteWe'll see if that turns out well and dark or ends up being overdone and turning into Cthomedy.
If i've got my stories straight, it should turn out a lot like the Thing. ;)
I'll have to pick The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, just for sheer eerieness, which I love. At the Mountains of Madness was fun too.
a thought....
the geometry of r'lyeh is described as non-euclidian, right? (i believe it was first described as being "wrong", but that could be another way of describing non-euclidian geometry)
fractals are non-euclidian, right?
wouldnt it be freaky to see a building that was designed entirely by fractals? an entire city?
Yeah, Lovecraft has explicitly stated it as being non-Euclidean.
However, while fractals are difficult to quantify in Euclidean terms, they are contained and comprehensible in E-space (as far as I can tell; my formal understanding of maths flopped in grade 11). Nevertheless, while fractals themselves might be Euclidean, a city of fractals would have to defy geometric convention.
Gah! My brain is melting just trying to envision it. Darn you for putting the idea in my head! (Heck, I go into spasms when I hear the phrase "the hypotenuse is shorter...")
Quote from: Salacious AngelYeah, Lovecraft has explicitly stated it as being non-Euclidean.
that's possible, i don't know for sure. having only read part of CoC, all i know is that a cultist decribed the geometry as "wrong".
QuoteHowever, while fractals are difficult to quantify in Euclidean terms, they are contained and comprehensible in E-space (as far as I can tell; my formal understanding of maths flopped in grade 11).
Nevertheless, while fractals themselves might be Euclidean, a city of fractals would have to defy geometric convention.[/quote]Gah! My brain is melting just trying to envision it. Darn you for putting the idea in my head! (Heck, I go into spasms when I hear the phrase "the hypotenuse is shorter...")[/quote]exactly[/i] why it fits!
Quotei may be mistaken, but i belive part of euclidian geometry is that all shapes have a finite border; fractals have an infinite border (and thus, can only truely exist in theory; in practice, we get approximations of fractals, wich do have a finite border)
not[/i] a straight line. A globe, for instance, is not euclidean; the shortest distance between two points is an arc on the globe.
there's a more complicated, possibly more correct definition, but that's what i'm sticking with.
that..... falls flat in two ways.
first, the shortest distance between two points on a shpere (the proper shape of a globe) is a straight line- directly through the inside.
however, assuming you meant without actually going inside the object, then that can be applied to any object that has more then one dimension. picture a square with the sides label n, e, s, and w. the shortest distace from the point 3/4 of the way down e, to the point 3/4 of the way down w would either be a straight line, parrallel with n and s (although, closer to s), or, banning lines going directly through the object, it would have to travel down the bottom 1/4 of e, all along s, then up the bottom 1/4 of w.
(argh... meant to hit preview, not post)
i probably gave an overly complicated explaination of why that couldn't be non-euclidian geometry, but it works. like i said, i may be mistaken in my definition, but i know spheres count as euclidian.
Quote from: Pretentious quasi-technical geometry commentRoughly speaking, one of the properties of Euclidian geometry is that parallel lines only intersect at infinity. On the surface of a sphere, the mathematical equivalent of a straight line is a circle that divides the sphere into hemispheres (and only a circle that does exactly that). But two circles that divide a sphere into hemispheres always intersect not once but twice (on opposite sides of the sphere), so the surface of a sphere is non-Euclidian.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Pretentious quasi-literary Lovecraft comment]Incidentally, when Lovecraft referred to non-Euclidian space (which he usually described as "wrong angles"), he was well aware that all space is technically non-Euclidian (per Einstein's theories of relativity). However, it is not immediately obvious to human perception that space is non-Euclidian, so Lovecraft was (very effectively) using humanly-noticable non-Euclidian properties to denote realms that are far removed from normal human experience.[/spoiler]
Not ALL that scary...
I mean, look at Doomclown. Now HE'S/I'M scary. *giggle*
Quote from: Epic MeepoQuote from: Pretentious quasi-technical geometry commentRoughly speaking, one of the properties of Euclidian geometry is that parallel lines only intersect at infinity. On the surface of a sphere, the mathematical equivalent of a straight line is a circle that divides the sphere into hemispheres (and only a circle that does exactly that). But two circles that divide a sphere into hemispheres always intersect not once but twice (on opposite sides of the sphere), so the surface of a sphere is non-Euclidian.[/spoiler]
[spoiler=Pretentious quasi-literary Lovecraft comment]Incidentally, when Lovecraft referred to non-Euclidian space (which he usually described as "wrong angles"), he was well aware that all space is technically non-Euclidian (per Einstein's theories of relativity). However, it is not immediately obvious to human perception that space is non-Euclidian, so Lovecraft was (very effectively) using humanly-noticable non-Euclidian properties to denote realms that are far removed from normal human experience.[/spoiler]
i checked wikipedia shortly after i posted that, and while i understand next to nothing said by either you or wikipedia, the statements seem to agree with each other. i think.
i still say a city of fractals would be incredibly unnerving.
What would a city of fractals look like? Would it just be a city with buildings laid out in a fractal pattern, or would it be something else entirely?
Quote from: Epic MeepoWhat would a city of fractals look like? Would it just be a city with buildings laid out in a fractal pattern, or would it be something else entirely?
EVERYTHING would be a fractal- the floor designs, the walls, the pillars, the stairs, the streets..... every. single. thing.
Oh dear. I'm doing the whole visualisation thing again, and I think achieving a city like that would require extending the architecture into extradimensional space.
Quote from: IoValdeOh dear. I'm doing the whole visualisation thing again, and I think achieving a city like that would require extending the architecture into extradimensional space.
the best thing is, it's all true fractals. not the approximations we see.
Okay, so I have bought "The Best of H.P. Lovecraft - Bloodcurdling Tales of Horror and the Macabre." I've read, "The Call of Cthulhu," "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," and "The Dunwich Horror." How many of his stories deal with the Cthulhu mythos?
BTW, I loved Innsmouth.
Not all that many of them, actually. And in all honesty Lovecraft and several other authors provided the material that another guy, August Derlith, used created the Cthulu Mythos as we understand it today. He organized the whole cosmology and pretty much grabbed everything he could from Lovecraft and his corrospondents. That means that there's a lot of material.
Quote from: sdragon1984- the S is for penguinQuote from: Epic MeepoWhat would a city of fractals look like? Would it just be a city with buildings laid out in a fractal pattern, or would it be something else entirely?
EVERYTHING would be a fractal- the floor designs, the walls, the pillars, the stairs, the streets..... every. single. thing.
OWWW! my brain!
man, i just tried to visualise that (and i have very good spatial sense) and for any naysayers out there let me just say this.
If you actually had an idea what that "should" you would agree that it would be terifying (not to mention fascinating, confusing and awesome).
A city becoming fractal with you inside. It would hurt you in ways you couldn't even imagine for all their ifinite (and in this case, physically intrusive) complexities.
OW!