This arose from a discussion on IRC last night, and in hindsight I wished I had saved the logs of rhte discussion.
Essentially, we were discussing how we treat our old settings, projects that have either been completely abandoned or ones that have gathered dust for so long that we have almost forgotten them. For some of us, old settings were things to pick apart, sifting the bad from good and incorporating the latter into new settings, repurposing and altering old ideas into the new. For others, older settings were things that it felt almost sacrilegious to desecrate so - elements for those settings were so uniquely those settings that either it was impossible to repurpose or were so emotionally bonded to that setting that it was uncomfortable to imagine pulling them apart like that. For still others, those like Vreeg that have settings they've been working on for years or even decades, the idea of old settings that weren't being used was amusing, but they often incorporate things that arise in games played in these settings that weren't previously there into the setting proper, including PCs that predate the setting or those that are no longer active PCs.
My purpose here is to open the discussion to the community at large - how do you view your older settings?
I'll answer more completely later...but as I mentioned, i have used parts of most of my earlier homebrews (the ones not taken from literature) and kitbashed them to fit the Celtrician mythos. So David's Delvings, Ish Isle, Gesana, and Lambria are all actually mixed in.
(Lambria is a continent almost twice the size of Celtricia)
The DD campaign ended with the PCs literally releasing a strike on the Undead that had almost taken over the whole large Island chain, and it left only a few small islands...But now the old PCs from that area run it, and are engaged in trade with Steel Isle, the tarn Bay, Orbi, and Trabler.
(and we started DD when I was 11.)
I'm, as I described last night, a "time and place" type guy when it comes to settings. What I mean is that I think there are elements of a setting that, for me, are defined primarily by them being where they are in the setting I originally intended them to be in.
A while back I had a setting called Shattered Spectrum that I still am very fond of. It's possible that I might come back to it someday, but I'm far more devoted to Opus now. Even though SS was a sci-fi setting and Opus isn't, I could easily find ways to incorporate some of my favorite elements of SS (orichalcum, angels, paradoxes as commonplace [that might actually be the exception here], pretty much all of Dunhallow Prim, etc.) into Opus, but I wouldn't want to. It seems disrespectful to the setting, in a way. The elements that I'd take from SS are made by where they are now and what they do.
HOWEVER, I will cannibalize elements of certain settings given certain constituents:
1. The two settings are very closely related.
If I make two post apocalyptic settings and I like one more than the other but still find elements of the other that I also enjoy, then I'm going to do my best to mesh the two together. Besides, who needs more than one post apoc setting? ;)
2. The setting to be cannibalized has pretty much never seen the light of publicity.
Basically, if I have a setting that I haven't really advertised or had any players play within then it's a much bigger and easier target for me to take things from it and otherwise dismantle it. It's a good indicator that if I haven't told anyone about or made an effort to reveal it, I don't care all that much about it.
In those two instances, yes, I'd be in full support of borrowing from other settings to make super awesome new ones. Otherwise, my modus operandi is to let dead things lie and to pay my respects. I should say that I have no problem with someone combining two or more settings together, especially if the end result is a damn good read, but it's not usually my cup of tea.
I sometimes pick parts of old homebrews and merge them into newer settings. I find myself recreating alot, revamping alot of my settings, multiple times. I foresee the day where I will merge my Atlantis, Primeval and Plaguelands together, giving birth to an ultra-supra-setting. Hehe
Yes! Put everything together!
Asura is the merging of quite a few ideas I have had floating around, including Crystalstar, which itself was the merging about three things.
So I think it's pretty obvious what my view is. ;)
I think it's really interesting that, of the 4 people who have commented so far, we've had 4 different viewpoints (though they do have similarities, overall it's a different way of doing it.)
I'm with Sparkletwist - anything I can pull together, I do. Mashing up only doesn't occur when the settings are so insanely different that it'd be impossible to have any kind of merging.
QuoteBesides, who needs more than one post apoc setting? ;)
You can never had too many post apocalyptic settings. :P
I often think about combining Amalga and Aeolond. Aeolond had some great Macro- ideas and Amalga had some cool stories and some great micro- ideas. They could work very well together. Of course, I've never gone through with the idea because it scares me.
Out of curiosity, what about it scares you? (Also, mildly amused that I Amalga sounds like a setting that should be an Amalgamation of two settings. :P)
Quote from: Xathan Of Many WorldsMashing up only doesn't occur when the settings are so insanely different that it'd be impossible to have any kind of merging.
Bah! You're just not mashing hard enough. :P
I tend to let things sit for years (not by choice) come back to them, and whittle them down from kitchen sink into something leaner. Qoheleth was Beejazz's Scifi Theater, which had anthropomorphic bats once.
Everything is fair game, all the time. I shamelessly cannibalise not only my own old material, but the contents of my friends' settings and even the creations of members of this site.
Quote from: sparkletwist
Quote from: Xathan Of Many WorldsMashing up only doesn't occur when the settings are so insanely different that it'd be impossible to have any kind of merging.
Bah! You're just not mashing hard enough. :P
There is a limit. :P In a strictly sci-fi setting, a floating landmass is hard to justify without magic or "clarketech" (sufficiently advanced technology = magic)
That being said, I'm sure I could manage if I really, really tried. :P
QuoteI tend to let things sit for years (not by choice) come back to them, and whittle them down from kitchen sink into something leaner. Qoheleth was Beejazz's Scifi Theater, which had anthropomorphic bats once.
And either Terra Macabre or Shades and Ashes is going to directly steal Datrik's world under the surface, so I can completely see your point there.
QuoteEverything is fair game, all the time. I shamelessly cannibalise not only my own old material, but the contents of my friends' settings and even the creations of members of this site.
Out of curiosity, how much do you mine the creations of other posters for ideas? Just always wonder how much inspiration is drawn from other CBG settings.
Quote from: Xathan Of Many Worlds
Out of curiosity, what about it scares you? (Also, mildly amused that I Amalga sounds like a setting that should be an Amalgamation of two settings. :P)
I'm scared that by combining two settings I like separately, I will hate the combination and my enjoyment of each individually will be lessened, or worse, I will have outright contempt for them.
I think its a bit irrational. ;)
Quote from: XathanOut of curiosity, how much do you mine the creations of other posters for ideas? Just always wonder how much inspiration is drawn from other CBG settings.
I can't say for sure. It's so shameless and automatic that I rarely take a moment to measure the damage. Let's say... a lot.
Quote from: EEI'm scared that by combining two settings I like separately, I will hate the combination and my enjoyment of each individually will be lessened, or worse, I will have outright contempt for them.
Until relatively recently I was quite like that. Then it occurred to me that I could go back to the originals any time I wanted. The great thing about setting redesign and appropriation is that one's thefts need not diminish the originals, nor prevent their re-visitation.
I have, for instance (and this is in part a reply to Xathan), GMed a game of
Cadaverous Jade Stage. It was very sexy and utterly horrifying, and I will not be doing it again.
QuoteI can't say for sure. It's so shameless and automatic that I rarely take a moment to measure the damage. Let's say... a lot.
I don't judge - I'd do the same thing if I didn't feel like I was ripping people off, even though I know it's just being inspired by them, not directly stealing.
QuoteI have, for instance (and this is in part a reply to Xathan), GMed a game of Cadaverous Jade Stage. It was very sexy and utterly horrifying, and I will not be doing it again.
....I would give up my firstborn to see this.
I'm actually in the process of unifying the majority of my own fantasy settings and the various campaign worlds that have been used by this regions LARPs into one macro-setting. It's my first time doing much in the way of cannabalisation and it is a massive processes that leaves me most often brooding on metagenre.
I'm mashing so hard it hurts.
Quote from: WeaveBesides, who needs more than one post apoc setting? ;)
A tangent, but every setting is post-apocalyptic if you look back far enough and/or accept a smaller scale. I've heard a plague swept through the Americas before it was settled by Europeans, so that period of colonization could be seen as post-apocalyptic.
I don't mind taking elements from past settings. Hell, I've come up with fun ideas, then ditched them, then brought them back. If a setting is completely out of use, I have no hesitation in using it for parts. And if I like it enough, I might even take an element from a living setting too.
I actually mashed my old Gesana,. thr David's Delvings, Ish Isle, some of my really ancient Bro-an-mabden, the Lambrian Lament (which was the post campaign for Gesana), all into Celtricia after I created it. Triblia, Lambria, Celtricia, Ish Isle, and Gesana are the five biggest continental structures on the the "waking Dream", in that order.
So I respect the crap out of what you are doing. I mashed crap that had been done with T&T and AD&D and Rolemaster...so you sometimes become very aware as to the game-outcomes that are somewhat system determined.
Quote
A tangent
Yay
Quotebut every setting is post-apocalyptic if you look back far enough and/or accept a smaller scale. I've heard a plague swept through the Americas before it was settled by Europeans, so that period of colonization could be seen as post-apocalyptic.
How do you define apocalypse, sir?
Quote from: Tangent_Jaerc
How do you define apocalypse, sir?
I could ask the same of Fallout 3. Everyone's not dead there either, and there's the implication that some places are relatively okay. There have been a few historical cases of people living in the ruins of more advanced civilizations (Rome) and cases of people just living their lives over the mass graves of their neighbors (the plague). The scale hasn't ever been global (in human history) but given the limits of transportation and communication in a given time, it may as well be.
The definition of apocalypse is already fuzzy if there are survivors (which there tend to be in post-apocalypse). So I guess the annihilation of all prior culture, cultural cannibalization without context or understanding, decimation of the population, and a scarred landscape would be the central tropes of the genre. The scarred landscape would be the hardest to find in historical apocalypses (as a trope brought on by fear of nukes and environmental collapse), but famines and little ice ages might qualify now and again.
Anyway, I qualified about the small scale intentionally.
Well said.
Thanks. :D
Quote from: Tangent_Jaerc
most often brooding on metagenre.
Reading through again, I'm curious what you mean by "metagenre," as I've sort of seen genre itself as kind of poorly defined (horror is defined by its tone, while scifi by a jumbled bunch of stuff, romance by character relationships, etc.) Sometimes I wish genres were categorized based on what defined them (tone, "stuff", other) because I think that would provide a good guideline for what mashes well and what doesn't. There's a reason scifi mashes so well with horror, action, and comedy, and a reason why which one you pick will make the same scifi tropes into a totally different story.
Actually, in a sense, both of my major settings here: Avayevnon and Cad Goleor, have in a sense suffered an "apocalypse" in the past, and as such are post-apocalyptic. Cad Goleor has completely recovered, as the legends about that apocalypse are the beginning of their "creation myth." Avayevnon is struggling a bit more, but it's "apocalypse" was in the form of devastating wars between religions and their gods, which included scarring the landscape, plagues, cultural upheaveal (but not complete destruction of culture) and so forth. However, neither setting is currently in the condition of the typal "post-apocalyptic" setting.
I've put parts of my setting back into the meat grinder and fed it to itself so many times that I should probably be investigated for some terrible cannibalistic crime. My first version of it started way back in 1998; I really need to have something done with it before it reaches 20 years old.