The Cast
- Tarlan, ex-human githyanki mind warrior
- Maevith, half-dragon goliath swordsman on the road to turning himself into a golem
- Cordiss, phrenic human psionicist and pseudo-poltergeist
- Riker, half-fey human archer
Everyone took level adjustment and used LA buyoff, so nobody is actually 20th level yet. To start the campaign off and get everyone used to epic level characters I'm running Storm Lord's Keep from Dragon #310. It's the first epic level adventure WotC wrote. I'll be changing it some to make it a jumping off point for an entire campaign based around the impending death and rebirth of the multiverse.
The play report for our first session. (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Opened-Eyes-Part-1) It was pretty short, some folks were late and not everyone had their characdters done, but it did highlight some shortcomings that people were given a chance to rectify in between this session and the next.
Interesting stuff here. I'll be following this with interest. I haven't gotten a good chance to look over the play report, but I'll check it out when I have more time. Out of curiosity, what classes are the "human archer" and "goliath swordsman" taking?
A lot more fighter levels than I expected.
I never saw the archer's sheet so I'm not positive what his build was, but there were ranger, scout, and fighter levels in there. His goal was to roll as many d6es for damage per arrow as he could. The fighter was straight fighter 17 but with every strength boost he could find except for Animal Devotion. His final strength ended up being 51.
In between sessions I gave them the opportunity to completely rework their characters, since they've never done anything higher than 14th level and epic has a lot of things you have to be able to do (hence the monk who sat out most of the battle because he couldn't fly). During that time they found the build section of the dandwiki.
- The archer is talking about switching to a master thrower, since apparently 350 damage per round wasn't enough. :)
- The fighter swithced out to a fighter / cleric / prestige paladin / bone knight. His damage went way down but his number of immunities and ability to do non-stabby things went way up.
- The monk is looking to rebuild, despite having been doing 575 damage per round on average. I don't know what build struck his fancy on the wiki, but I do know his current monk / psionic fist came from there.
- The psion uncarnate stayed relatively the same. The player isn't the type to grab other peoples' builds and like what he'd already made.
Good luck with the adventuring. I find epic levels to be insane in terms of power level and very difficult to manage; I usually stop around 14 or 15 as you imply. Even around level 13 things start to get wacky. I think as long as you can account for the change in game dynamic for epic levels you should be fine. The scales need to be amped way up, and rebirthing the multiverse sounds like a delightfully epic campaign. I'm really curious to see how far it will go. 575 and 350 damage per round just blows my mind :P.
I've run epic games for 3.5 and 4.0 before, run Scion and Exalted, as well as GMed a couple of epic level arenas over at rpol.net. The power level isn't much of an issue. There's nothing a PC can do that a GM can't triple if he really wants to. My concern is that the newer players seem to be getting caught up in the "MORE POWER!!!11!" aspect of it. They're very story oriented in the other game I've seent hem in (I'm a player there) so hopefully the ZOMG factor will wear off and we'll get to tell some good stories alongside all the heinous battles.
My GM mantra for high power gaming is "let 'em do it." I'd rather have to wing an entire session than stomp on a cool idea. Like when the Scion PCs took Paris Hilton on an impromptu trip to Africa to teach the children how to read (of course, she only brought old issues of Style, People, GQ, and the like). It totally derailed the idea I had but we ended up with an adopted child of Tiger (the god, not the animal) and several cool sessions.
Part 2 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Opened-Eyes-Part-2)
- The monk finally gets to show his stuff, to devestating effect.
- A new PC is introduced, alongside a new NPC cohort.
- lots of near deaths and by the end of it the NPC cohort is a revenant just waiting to die so she can be revivified.
- There's a lot less detail because I had a very busy week.
Hmmm, I've runs lot of Epic 3.5 and will be watching this with interest. Shall try to harvest some handy links, and am happy to offer advice as needed.
Quote from: Tangent_Jaerc
Hmmm, I've runs lot of Epic 3.5 and will be watching this with interest. Shall try to harvest some handy links, and am happy to offer advice as needed.
Any general advice you can toss out? The campaign is still young and while I've run epic games before this is the first time with this group.
Part 3 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Opened-Eyes-Part-3)
It's been a funky couple of weeks, so it's really short.
I totally missed this somehow. Well with your specific party, mind-affecting effects are pretty much no go. I'll see about dredging up a bullet list of general advice.
I missed a week of updating so it'll be a double one this week (when I can get around to it). They're now done with the storm lord's keep adventure (from Dungeon magazine), so the "real" campaign starts in earnest this week or the next depending on how much prep time I can squeeze out.
Part 4 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Opened-Eyes-Part-4)
Actually sessions 2 and 3. They finish up the the intro adventure and learn something fundamental (and fundamentally deadly) about he universe.
Interesting stuff! Looking forward to reading more.
Also, I don't know if you're aware, but the links to the characters aren't working for me.
Yeah, they probably shouldn't be there at all, or at least give a friendlier 404 message. They're on the todo list and will eventually have short descriptions, pictures if available, and a link to pdfs of the character sheets (unless someone knows a good pdf to html converter, in which case they'll be webpages instead of pdfs because I really loathe unnecessary pdfs online).
I'd like to see what they're built like. I've been mostly convinced that D&D falls apart at higher levels both mechanically and, to some degree, narratively. I'm all for being proven wrong, however :).
Cordiss: http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Cordiss.pdf
Kastiel: http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Kastiel.pdf
Tarlan: http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Tarlan.pdf
Retired:
Malcolm: http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Malcolm Reynolds.pdf (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/MalcolmReynolds.pdf)
Maevith: http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Maevith - Half Dragon Goliath Fighter - Fowler.pdf (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/pcs/Maevith-HalfDragonGoliathFighter-Fowler.pdf)
Those are the only ones I've got in pdf form right now.
Part 5 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Agony-Part-1)
In which they find a powerful artifact and uncover demonic double agents in Geoff.
The called shot feat (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/house-rules/feats#called-shot) is up. Nobody actually has it yet, but it came up last session so I tossed something together.
Called shots are not a very good thing to have in a system that not only abstracts battle fatigue and actual wounds together, but also generally abstracts dodging an attack and being hit by the attack but protected by armor. My suggestion for a player asking for called shots in D&D is simply to say, as you eloquently put it, "you hit what you hit and you don't throw a fit."
I agree, but one of the players wanted to make one to stop the duke from calling his guards and we couldn't think of a good way to hole it so the compromise as to make clued shots a feat, which gave me a week to hack something together and lo means that they might never actually get used.
In my opinion, making it a feat is one of the worst ways to resolve the issue. Just making it a "thing you can do" might work if you feel you really need it, but having it as a feat introduces a number of additional problems.
First of all, it has that dissociated "what do you mean I can't swing my axe any more times today" feel that 4e martial powers do, because, what, some characters can't aim their strikes at all?
Secondly, accepting that, it is just not a very good feat. Some feats are just not worth a feat slot, and it seems hard to accept that a fighter would want to burn one on this when there are plenty of more useful combat feats out there. I'd take Power Attack, Cleave, etc. long before this.
And thirdly, assuming a player has taken the feat, that means that player has now invested resources into making this mechanic available, and will probably try to use it more often due to having invested those resources and wanting to get a return... so, if the feat ever does get taken, you'll be seeing a lot more called shots, probably, and the system is as ill-suited to them as ever.
Everyone aims their attacks for vital spots. Those with improved critical are better at it. Those with called shot are even better.
I agree that its not an amazingly powerful feat. Its not intended to be. If its better than power attack and cleave its too good.
I already give bonuses for making combat more than swinging and hitting. If theyntakenthis feat and use it a lot, more power to them. If it turns out to be too powerful or too weak in play we'll modify it accordingly. That said, I'd rather it never be taken, but the game isn't all aboutmy wishes.
Quote from: James McMurrayEveryone aims their attacks for vital spots. Those with improved critical are better at it. Those with called shot are even better.
These are two different things. Normally, the process of aiming a shot and getting critical hits is automatic and handled by the dice. Given the abstracted nature of hp, what a "critical hit" actually even
represents varies quite greatly depending on how much hp is being taken off and what kind of shape the target is in afterwards. On the other hand, a called shot is a deliberate thing designated by the player which is assumed to have actually hit (or at least come really near) what the character was aiming at.
Quote from: James McMurrayI agree that its not an amazingly powerful feat. Its not intended to be.
So why add another "trap option" to a system that's already full of them? Why have it be a
feat at all?
Like I said before, just having it be a thing that characters can do if needed would probably work better. Then, combat will normally go along in the normal D&D way, but you'll have rules just in case someone wants to attempt a called shot. Maybe characters with Improved Critical have slightly lessened penalties, or something, if you want to have some kind of bonus tied to a feat. But... you even said yourself you'd rather nobody ever took the feat, so why even bother with having it as one?
Having it be a feat is what the group agreed on. I'm not the lord high muckety muck, so me wanting it to not exist is just one vote not an automatic veto. Granted, if I felt vehemently against it I'd veto it. but one guy wanted it, so I figured something out.
You're preaching to the choir, but my group's dynamics mean it doesn't matter if I'm a convert. :)
If it ever gets taken, I'll post how it worked out (and any changes we ended up making along the way).
No disrespect, but I don't dig that design at all.
If you truly feel the need, use the PF system for called shots. It's backwards compatible, pretty much.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/variant-rules#TOC-Called-Shots
If you really like the feat as a means of taxing the player who wants to use this, you could make it a prereq for the use of these mechanics.
Thanks for the link! I just forwarded it to the group so we may end up using those instead of a feat.
What difference does it make?
Called shots are ill-suited for D&D no matter how they're implemented.
That Pathfinder system looks as terrible as any other. (No offense; it's a game structure thing, not any fault of yours)
If you can't discern the difference between the die modifiers and therefore the percentage of occurrences, I suggest a re-read. Further this system is far more tied to the game's expected penalties and basic status effects rather than a jumble (a pretty though out one at that, James) or hand to track, hard to trigger negatives.
Called-shots are D&D. I don't like that, you don't like that. But they've been there sincethe early days and so ill-suited is less true perhaps than unfun.
It's kinda my fault, as those rules passed over my desk before hitting the public. /shame
>.>
No, they're ill-suited. Called shots just are not suited to a system that abstracts attack rolls, AC, and HP to the degree that D&D/Pathfinder/whatever does. The fact that people have been trying to shoehorn them in there since the old days doesn't make them any more suited, it just means people have been trying (and failing) at it forever.
That's all I meant by "as terrible." I understand that there are mechanical differences. One square peg might be shinier and more well-constructed than someone else's square peg. It's still not going to fit in a round hole.
Apart from our differences of opinion on called shots (which aren't as different as they might seem), anyone got something to say about the campaign itself. :)
What? No. I'm just here to argue rules. :P
Part 6 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Agony-Part-2)
In which the adventurers save a town besieged by a demonic army.
Part 7 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Agony-Part-3)
In which the adventurers head into the valley and revelations are made.
How many rds did it take to take down Kir-Tan.
What developments with the suddenly very interesting Elina?
What "cap" do you envision for your campaign world? How near is Graz'zt to that, and how near are the PCs to his tier?
Quote from: Tangent_Jaerc
How many rds did it take to take down Kir-Tan.
I don't remember exactly. The fight itself lasted maybe 5-8 rounds. They mostly ignored Kir Tan until the end, at which point they had dominated Grusht Zjarr and he helped. It was approximately 3 rounds, including their new lackey's help.
Quote from: Tangent_JaercWhat developments with the suddenly very interesting Elina?
She was very instrumental in returning Kastiel to the path of righteousness. I haven't written that sesion up yet and we haven't had a chance to play since.
Quote from: Tangent_JaercWhat "cap" do you envision for your campaign world?
I don't see a hard cap, but a rough estimate puts the campaign wrapping up somewhere around 40th. Some of those levels will be ECL gained from templates that the pools impart and for which they don't actually have to spend XP. For instance, the pool of elements will give them a half-elemental template of their choice and enough XP to offset their new level.
Quote from: Tangent_JaercHow near is Graz'zt to that, and how near are the PCs to his tier?
I haven't statted Graz'zt. By RAW he's around CR23 but I'll be using the "epic demon lords" stuff from Fiendish Codex I. He's probably around CR28, but that won't crystallize unless he comes after the PCs or they go after him. He'd definitely be one of those BBEGs that you don't get to stroll up to and punch in the chin. Any encounter with him would have so many bodyguardes that it would be at least 4 levels above Graz'zt's actual level, and they'll have to wade through a lot of trials and tribulations (and bodies) to get to him.
It's been about forever since we last played. This group tends to wrap up one chapter of a campain and then move to something else while the DMs plot out some of what's next. Anyway, updates posted (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/?category=campaign).
Agony part 4 and Cosmic Prison part 1 are new.
Finally, I added the original write-up for Agony to the list of adventures that have been run so far (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/adventures/?category=adventures).
Part 10 (http://http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Cosmic-Prison-Part-2)
In which the adventurers opt for the bettor part of valor.
Part 11 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Gott-Ist-Tot-Part-1)
In which the adventurers follow Stacey to the astral plane and piss off the entire Githyanki race.
Part 12 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Gott-Ist-Tot-Part-2)
In which the adventurers stop a war before it starts and take advantage of a suicide.
Part 13 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Gott-Ist-Tot-Part-3-plus-Cosmic-Prison-3)
In which the adventurers slog their way through a giant corpse collecting bits and pieces.
Vessel of Magic (http://"http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/lore/miscellaneous-vessel-of-magic"): the template acquired by the party when they cast the dead god's epic spell. It's just a shell until they've explored their new abilities.
Part 14 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-1)
The party went through the pool of time and found themselves in a game of Exalted. OOC it wasn't a surprise, they knew the options ahead of time. There they ound themselves in the midst of a huge battle already underway.
Part 15 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-2)
They follow Uvanavu to heaven and talk with some gods and sidereals. This session was cut short because I had to leave early, but they learned a lot in the little time we played.
Part 16 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-3)
The party heads off to explore Creation and is ambushed by the Wyld Hunt.
Part 17 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-4)
They do some investigation, meet a ghost, and let it possess Castiel.
Part 17b (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-4b-Walking-in-Darkness)
A small portion of the party, including the ghost that possesses Castiel, heads into the Underworld to find Djakart's soul. Everyone involved except Tarlan is an NPC, and Tarlan's player never shows up to the session, so this is more of a story than a play report.
Part 18 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-5), where Cordiss makes contact with the Solars and ends up forcing Castiel to flee Creation.
Part 18b (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-5b-Raistlin-In-The-Underworld-Again), where Raistlin, once again in control of Castiel, saves Djakart's second soul and makes an ally of Elina.
Part 18c (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-5c-Cordiss-on-the-Mountain), where Cordiss goes to meet the solar lord of Creation and learns that old power isn't necessarily any nicer than young.
The last update for the Exalted crossover chapter is up. The adventures for getting to the pool and being in the pool are also posted.
Update (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/A-Whole-New-World-Part-6)
Adventures (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/adventures)
Part 20 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-1), where Castiel, Tarlan, Cordiss, and Raistlin jump back into the pool and end up in the Marvel universe. This chapter I'm a player in, giving me a chance to be a PC and one of the players a chance to run.
Part 21 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-2), In which the heroes pull S.H.I.E.L.D.'s fat out of the fryer and get beat up for it.
Part 22 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-3), In which the heroes fight cyborg dinosaurs. Yep... Cyborg. Dinosaurs.
Part 24 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-4), In which the heroes fight more cyborgs and breach the enemy's walls.
Part 25 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-5), In which the heroes finally kick some ass that matters.
Part 26 (http://rpg-tools.org/dnd-epic-win/campaign/Four-Colors-Part-6), In which the heroes fight each other and then monkey around a bit.