Hello, some people may recognise my nickname because i've posted about these ideas on therpgsite. Currently I am working on a project, that I hope one day might become its own game, called Wuxia Space Opera. As the name suggests this is an SF setting, not hard scifi, based on Wuxia and some elements of Chinese Folklore (in the way something like Zu Warriors or Chinest Ghost Story or Hero is - as opposed to straight up Bruce Lee kungfu). It is important to notw a few things: firstly I don't intend to discuss everything I have all at once, which might be counter productive in places. Secondly, this isn't meant to be like Hellas (or similar projects); it isn't straight up chinese culture/folklore in space. It is a synergy of these things often using anglicised terminology (which has its own flavour as a result) rather than naming everything after the chinese words (i do not speak chinese in any form, nor do I claim any cultural expertise, nor am I even chinese in any way shape or form). Thirdly the science is light. Science and tech are important to the setting, obviously, but I am not a scientist nor a reader of hard SF. This is not Eclipse Phase (not that there is anything wrong with EP either, but it is intense).
With that in mind, I'm posting specifically to discuss how to create the River. This is the galactic internet of the setting. It is important to have this because this is the analog for Taoism/Heaven in the setting (ancient AI instead of the Jade Emperor) - and because there needs to be something like a mass comms/info system in the setting really. But what should this be? There are a few problems already: mainly that, in rpg terms, cyberspace is often problematic. It's just something that doesn't really work in the narrative space roleplaying occupies (I'm thinking in terms of netrunning/jacking into systems/hacking). Also I don't want the whole concept to get bogged down in huge levels of describing computer systems and operations. This isn't specifically a cyberpunk setting. So:
The Xia Empire created the River as it exists today; the galactic information and communication network. It was made in the shadow of the Supreme Ultimate System, the network built by the Tien and administered by their singular Ancestral Intellects: sentient programs built to control the system.
The River has survived the demise of the Xia Empire and the fragmentation of the 10,000 stars, including the rise of the Iron Emperor. It still exists across the galaxy, but each state and organisation has its own territory within. Imperial Iron Qin, for example, has the Great Firewall, which is actively protected by deadly software, to keep out intruders, and the Bureau will pursue hackers across the galaxy if need be.
During the time of the Xia the River was more easily accessible and its own system intelligences, known as Shen, were abundant. Most every cyber interest, such as merchant organisations or noble houses, had Shen representing them in infospace.
In the modern age access to the River is guarded; knowledge about its systems and operations has become the purview of Data Shamans. In more civilised/populated areas entry level system access is easy enough, but elsewhere and for more complex interactions such individuals are needed.
Background:
The Xia Empire - the great cultural pinnacle of galactic civilisation that serves as a cultural and ethical ideal for the heroes of the troubled present.
The Tien - the most advanced culture to ever exist; nonhuman they ruled the galaxy - the 10,000 stars, in ancient times as a precursor race. Note that humans in this setting, like Star Wars, do not come from earth. Earth/Terra is not a part of this galaxy.
Iron Qin - the default bad guys of the present; led by the all powerful Iron Emperor (he knows all the best kungfu/power) they are an oppressive regime that has risen in the wake of the Xia Empire and is the most powerful of the current states.
The Bureau - we might think of Iron Qin as similar to communist China; the Bureau of Doctrine is a pwoerful agency that deals with threats to the cultural stability imposed by Iron Emperor. It deals, for instance, with dissidents and produces propaganda. An all encompassing shadowy tyrannical agency.
HTH.
Thanks for reading.
Depending on how you want to proceed, you could treat the River as a 'spirit realm' instead of Heaven, something that exists simultaneously with the 'real realm', where hackers take the place of spirit-walkers or mystics, programmers are shamans (as mentioned), rogue AIs serve as ghosts and viruses as demons physically slipping between the realms pursuing their own alien goals. Skilled 'Navigators' could even perhaps use the River as a nigh-instantaneous form of transportation (FTL? An homage to Dune's Spacing Guild?)
Anyhow, hope these ideas are useful and I'm not stepping on any toes here, I really like the vibe of this pseudo-mystic sci fi setting as well as the Chinese influence (I also like how you're not going pan-Asian and creating a goobly-guck of many differing and contrasting themes). Looking forward to see where this is going.
do you mean spirit realm in the sense of actual spirits, not technology?
No, technology, but technology so advanced and ancient and indiscernible it appears as magic.
I think I would prefer a synergy of both, somehow.
Perhaps the AI of the River are the 'soul forms' of honoured dead. I'm not sure.
I think it would be best to ignore the nitty gritty details in that case. I see no problem in encountering the residual consciousnesses of the dead within the River if there is some vague techno-spiritual jargon to explain it ever so vaguely, but it should be rare and difficult to find them. Would players be able to physically manifest themselves within the River? Will mystical magic exist within the setting, or will all magic be a form of uber-advanced technology?
Quote from: Señor Leetz
I think it would be best to ignore the nitty gritty details in that case. I see no problem in encountering the residual consciousnesses of the dead within the River if there is some vague techno-spiritual jargon to explain it ever so vaguely, but it should be rare and difficult to find them. Would players be able to physically manifest themselves within the River? Will mystical magic exist within the setting, or will all magic be a form of uber-advanced technology?
magic in ancient china is really the purview of the Taoist priest doing the usual things that such people culturally do: dealing with the supernatural, pursuing immortality - alchemy. On top of that you have geomancy/feng shui. The main focus of the setting is, I suppose, Chi based (which is another topic entirely). So if you look at something like Weapons of the Gods, then the majority of characters use chi to do kung fu in some form (even to superheroic levels). a few characters can do 'magic'. So the River is that part of the setting: the part that's an anolog, in some form, for taoist magic.
Wait, I'm a bit confused. Is there actual magic in the campaign, or merely the facade of 'magic' via extremely advanced and mysterious technology? My two cents is to go with the second, it won't take anything away from the setting, as well it help in making it seem more coherent and thoroughly science fiction. But that's just my thought.
There are some aspects of what might be regarded as supernatural. Just not necessarily this aspect.
Quote from: ghost whistler
I think I would prefer a synergy of both, somehow.
Perhaps the AI of the River are the 'soul forms' of honoured dead. I'm not sure.
What if, upon death, some people are rewarded by having their personalities copied to the River, and being used as models for AIs in their likenesses? That way, you keep some of the ancestor worship (because in the river, I can ask Grandpa for help and guidance), and you blur the lines a bit between spiritual and technological outlooks (since there can be a legitimate debate in the setting about whether that's really Grandpa existing in the River's afterlife, or whether that's a soulless computer program that's imitating Grandpa).
Really like your premise here, by the way, this is looking great.
Quote from: Luminous Crayon
Quote from: ghost whistler
I think I would prefer a synergy of both, somehow.
Perhaps the AI of the River are the 'soul forms' of honoured dead. I'm not sure.
What if, upon death, some people are rewarded by having their personalities copied to the River, and being used as models for AIs in their likenesses? That way, you keep some of the ancestor worship (because in the river, I can ask Grandpa for help and guidance), and you blur the lines a bit between spiritual and technological outlooks (since there can be a legitimate debate in the setting about whether that's really Grandpa existing in the River's afterlife, or whether that's a soulless computer program that's imitating Grandpa).
Really like your premise here, by the way, this is looking great.
That is something I had and am considering. Just not sure of the logistics. The River is an ancient construct. In some respects the 'present' is a post tech society - it's current era is after the decline of a cultural golden age (the Xia Empire) which itself rose in the shadow of the Tien who are long gone but even more advanced and nonhuman.
This means the River can be full of uploaded people. Factor in a galactic civilisation and it can be overwhelming. Of course you'd have to assume that the ruling nobility would be uploaded, because if anyone qualifies for digital immortality it would have to be the emperor and the ruling dynasts down the ages.
In that case, the 'advanced technology as magic' would work great in my opinion, as well as differing your setting from the many, many magic-based one. I wouldn't even think you have to explain it other than the fact that it is technology. People on backwater planets, various cultists or faithful, and even some of powers that be could still actually believe it IS magic, even thought it really isn't.
Technology, I think, in the arcane sense. Not perhaps in the 40k tech priest sense (ie technology is old and feared) but in the arcane sense of being indistinguishable. Part of the culture. I can't really explain it. So for instance, you don't necessarily have programs or icebreakers you have Shen (spirits in chinese folklore).
The makes a bit more sense. The only issue I see with that is with verisimilitude - Earth as we know it does not exist within the setting, but all of these Chinese terms do. I could that if there was an Earth and at sometime Chinese culture became the defacto culture of humans and thence spread across the galaxy, but I think using specific terms from a place, people, and time that never existed stretches the suspension of disbelief.
Quote from: ghost whistlerThe River is an ancient construct. In some respects the 'present' is a post tech society - it's current era is after the decline of a cultural golden age (the Xia Empire) which itself rose in the shadow of the Tien who are long gone but even more advanced and nonhuman.
This means the River can be full of uploaded people. Factor in a galactic civilisation and it can be overwhelming. Of course you'd have to assume that the ruling nobility would be uploaded, because if anyone qualifies for digital immortality it would have to be the emperor and the ruling dynasts down the ages.
What if the River is kept less crowded by having "inactive AIs" purged every so often. The Jade Emperor AI or its agents can remove subversive or unuseful AIs, or the AIs have some kind of scarcity-of-resources situation that they have to keep up with, so only the most active/loyal/successful/whatever AIs last for very long.
If you're using the River to mirror a kind of "ancestor worship" situation, maybe this is what makes that dynamic work-- why both sides need something out of it. The living need to convince the spirits (the AIs) to act on their behalf in the River, and the spirits need to help the living as part of ensuring their continued existence. "Unused" spirits would eventually fade away as they ran out of user-supplied power/voltage/bandwidth/whatever, or were culled by a monitor AI to increase the overall efficiency of the system.
Quote from: Señor Leetz
The makes a bit more sense. The only issue I see with that is with verisimilitude - Earth as we know it does not exist within the setting, but all of these Chinese terms do. I could that if there was an Earth and at sometime Chinese culture became the defacto culture of humans and thence spread across the galaxy, but I think using specific terms from a place, people, and time that never existed stretches the suspension of disbelief.
That's just how the setting is. It's like characters in star wars saying 'oh hell' and indeed speaking english :P
It's the nature of the setting. I get that won't appeal to everyone, but hey.
Though I'm not the biggest fan of nanotech as a setting concept (because it just seems too easy to explain things by way of magic machines in your blood, the air, the sky), I came up with a new version of the galactic computer environment, or space interweb, if you prefer!
Essentially a cloud of nanites pervade the air. These machines can be accessed in two ways: a traditional hardpoint interface (for the peasants), or a 'cyberjack' implant for those that can afford and are allowed to have such things. The latter allows peoplpe to wirelessly access the internet that's in the air (i'm not a futurist nor a scientist nor a technologist).
These nanites contain the internet as an ephemeral 'spirit medium' and relay information from place to place by relays through hyperspace (otherwise ALL OF SPACE AND EVERY PLANET would be smothered in this, which seems a bit weird).
Ultimately this probably quite bizarre idea is just set dressing. It doesn't change the function, but allows the galactic interweb to be decentralised and to appear more in tune with a fantasy vibe. This could be instead called the Cloud of Heaven.