The Campaign Builder's Guild

The Dark Souls Discussion Thread

or Dark Souls: How it Breaks Your Heart and Inspires Your Setting

This is definitely, most certainly, most-hoersily the place to discuss all things Dark Souls (including the upcoming, most indubitably [mathematically] awesome sequel), whether or not you've actually played the game. This extends both to the game itself, and as the title suggests, to the way it inspires you to write your campaign settings (I know it has simply ruined me). To help everyone get started, I'll post a few excellent video links and a few sample questions people can answer about their experience to get the ball rolling:

Some minor spoilers in the videos listed.

This one really captures the eerie feeling of the setting; a lore trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBJDBtn2MbQ&list=SPWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz)

Prepare to Die Edtion (expansion) Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeHdpZt2Tuk)

Bartholomew Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93LFz_j5fQA)

Video on Lautrec, a major NPC and one of the more popular characters in the game (minor spoilers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=SPWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz&feature=player_detailpage&v=o95uUu7I9Xs) <-- This entire series on the characters and backstory is awesome, well worth a watch. Some of it may seem cryptic. Lots of the game is left open to interpretation

Gwyn and the First Flame (Part 1) (very minor spoilers) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&list=SPWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz&v=GcGS3O27XYY)

Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qopqgAtk0Q4&list=SPWLedd0Zw3c5RCXboUsPwHsZJlXB2CzCz)



And now for some sample questions:

Who's your favorite character and why?

How do you feel about the divisions of magic (Pyromancy, Miracles, Sorcery)?

What is your favorite location in the game?

What was your first experience with death in the game (it happens a lot :))

Thoughts on the covenants (there are nine, each corresponding to one of the nine alignments)?

Thoughts on the ending and relation to covenants? (spoiler blocks please)

Most importantly, how has the setting inspired you?

[ooc]Since I haven't been around for a while I figured I'd start this thread instead of just rebooting my settings, both because they're not ready and because I really love this game, and see that there are at least a few others on the site
who have played it and are interested in its discussion. If you have any other ideas for things to discuss related to Dark Souls/Demon's Souls/etc. don't hesitate to post them.[/ooc]

Dark Souls is wonderfully Ambiguous. Geographically, Historically, and most importantly, morally.

Very few of the bosses are established as deserving death: much like Shadow of the Colossus they're just sort of In Your Way. Many of them are tragic figures, perhaps the victims of their own experimentations (Pinwheel, Quelaag, the Bed of Chaos), or the folly (Ceaseless Discharge) or malice (Priscilla) of others. One was the willing martyr to an unsustainable cause (Gwyn). One manufactured a figment symbol of hope (Gwyndolin) while two others defended that phantasm to their deaths (Ornstein and Smough). One ventured into the creeping dark and was consumed by it (Artorias); his companion protected his empty grave to preserve a noble lie and prevent others following in his stead (Sif).

Only a few are simply monstrous. The Demons lack motivation of any kind (and are in need of none) while the Golem and Gargoyles are grueling tests of your worth. Seath was a traitor from the first and a lunatic in the end. Manus ushers forth the Dark. The Gaping Dragon, transformed by its hunger, seaks simply to consume. But most are dwindling, diminishing, Darkening Souls. And then you kill them.

Quote from: Theopteryx
Dark Souls is wonderfully Ambiguous. Geographically, Historically, and most importantly, morally.

Very few of the bosses are established as deserving death: much like Shadow of the Colossus they're just sort of In Your Way. Many of them are tragic figures, perhaps the victims of their own experimentations (Pinwheel, Quelaag, the Bed of Chaos), or the folly (Ceaseless Discharge) or malice (Priscilla) of others, or else willing martyrs of an uncertain cause (Gwyn). One manufactured a figment symbol of hope (Gwyndolin) while two others defended that symbol to the death (Ornstein and Smough), perhaps ignorant of his deception. One ventured into the creeping dark and was consumed by it (Artorias) and his companion protected his empty grave to preserve a noble lie and prevent others following in his stead (Sif).

Only a few are simply monstrous. The demons lack motivation of any kind (except perhaps destruction) while the Golem and Gargoyles are grueling tests of your worth. Seath was a traitor from the first and a lunatic in the end. Manus ushers forth the Dark. the Gaping Dragon, transformed by its hunger, seaks simply to consume. But most are dwindling, diminishing, darkening. And then you kill them.

Well put. How do you feel about the covenants? I'm absolutely in love with the lore of the Darkwraiths and how they, the Chaotic Evil covenant, are the harbingers of the Age of Dark. Their reasons for being evil being mainly that they're out to spoil the status quo imposed upon Lordran by the gods. They're stealing humanity, preventing the kindling of bonfires, and getting in the way of those that want to perpetuate Gwyn's realm, and you can be one

How about the Gravelords? Essentially no purpose but to cause grief in the lives of others.

I can't get over the fantastic nature of the setting, specifically the way one area often finds itself transitioning into the next. Ancient elevator mechanisms, a fall into darkness, a great hallway lined with statues, holes in the basements of crumbling castles; all such simple yet dauntingly impressive ways to connect areas. It's also one of the few settings where I actually appreciate the presence of deities. It's been a massive inspiration both towards the supernatural nature of my setting itself (there's a parallel world that bears resemblance to much of Lordran, and is the home of demons and whatnot) and towards the relative power levels of everything in my settings (if you were to put everything in Pathfinder, the "gods" and most powerful demons would all be the equivalent of mid-CR monsters and say, 13th- to 15th-level characters).

I like how asymmetrical the Covenants are. In fact, I like Dark Souls' asymmetry in general: the gods are less a pantheon and more an assortment of powerful individuals. The setting is a compressed contradictory space. When I reached the bottom of the Great Hollow and stood in the midst of the towering silent Archtrees...

I feel like that section of the game, with the Everlasting Dragon seeming irrevelant yet sitting imperious and unassailable in its hideaway, speaks to a dimension of the setting that is almost unacknowledged:

The dragons are not gone. There may be more we cannot see. They are heedless of the abyss and will survive us all.

A thing I really like about deities in this setting is that the line gets really fuzzy around what is a god and what is not. I don't think it's ever actually stated, but I get the strong impression that the gods in this setting are only gods because they've got a lot of power, and the answer to "how much power do you really need before someone starts worshiping you?" is a bit subjective. Gwyn and Nito and the Witch of Izalith  got some of the best power when they picked up the primordial flame, but that didn't really give them fancy fire magic, it just made them more of what they were already becoming. It magnified their scale.

I love the symbolism of stuff like fire in this game, too. The whole game mechanic around pyromancy starts to get really intense when you consider what fire means in the setting, and just who you're emulating when you go around carrying a flame and making it respond to your will. The mechanics reinforce the lore, in that pyromancy doesn't give a crap about who you are or what stats you need, and it doesn't require you to collect esoteric catalysts or whatever. You just pick up a flame and go, and your flame grows with you.

One thing I extra specially love about this game is the way it evokes places you never see. You know what Carim is like, and Thorolund, and Balder, and Vinheim, etc., because you know what kinds of people and things come from those places. Nothing ever barfs forth lore at you: "Carim is like this...", but you do know it's associated with ornate rapiers and creepy cursed rings and a goddess of sin, and an image starts to take shape.

Quote from: HoersWho's your favorite character and why?

Followed closely by Sif. When I whittle his health down and he begins to stagger and stumble, yet still hefts that legendary sword in his jaws in honour of his damned comrade, though it means his own life...

It breaks my heart to pieces.

Quote from: HoersWhat is your favorite location in the game?

Ash Lake.

Again: the Dragon, the Archtrees... an Endless Grey Expanse that shall outlast the age of Man.

Quote from: HoersMost importantly, how has the setting inspired you?

The Torchbearer game I'm preparing is modelled heavily after the tone of Dark Souls. In fact, the tone of Torchbearer is pretty much all you have to tweak to get it feeling like a Souls game. The game's merciless.

As far as settings go, the ambiguity and asymmetry so familiar to the Souls series are qualities I've been trying to evoke in my own work (with occasional success) since long before the games existed. It's why I'm drawn to them in the first place.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonOne thing I extra specially love about this game is the way it evokes places you never see. You know what Carim is like, and Thorolund, and Balder, and Vinheim, etc., because you know what kinds of people and things come from those places. Nothing ever barfs forth lore at you: "Carim is like this...", but you do know it's associated with ornate rapiers and creepy cursed rings and a goddess of sin, and an image starts to take shape.

A thousand times this.

It sounds really interesting. I never really gave it a try because all the reviews said it was kind of masochistic. For someone with very limited time for games, I'm not sure I'd enjoy the frustration. Given that frustration is... frustrating.

It's truly not that bad. Game is tough but (usually) fair, and kind of gives me an old-school Nintendo vibe in terms of its difficulty.

The game is difficult, but most of that difficulty can be broken through by using items in clever ways, trying different tactics, and watching closely to learn enemy timings. The only thing about the game that's genuinely "masochistic" is that it doesn't really explain itself clearly, and rather than hand-holding and extensive tutorials, learning is really a matter of trial and error (which means you die a lot). It's a game that's designed for dying a lot to be okay, and even expected.

The music is awesome also.

Anyone have any thoughts on how to transplant the Dark Souls vibe into an rpg?

Okay, LC, that encourages me a bit. Maybe I will yet give it a shot.

I have put like 90 hours into the game since I started playing it two weeks ago. No joke.

Quote from: TheopteryxAnyone have any thoughts on how to transplant the Dark Souls vibe into an rpg?

I feel like the main elements are:

* the lack of a reliable narrator, or atlas, or objective trustworthy source of information about the world
* "magical thinking" (insofar as things work like you want them to, not so much as is realistic, i.e., Smough gaining strength and size by grinding his victims' bones into his feed-- it's intuitive but not logical)
* sin and consequences-- everybody is assumed to be on the verge of falling, it's only a matter of time; everybody has a million dark secrets in their storied pasts
* many layers of symbolism-- fire, for example, means upheaval of the status quo, and it means humanity's triumph over primal forces, and it means the will actuated, and it means the power by which the gods reign, and it means the sun and lightning, and it means etc. and etc. and etc.

* featured in both Dark and Demon's Souls: the sense that the world beyond the game's core setting is largely unaffected by the goings on inside (at least until you reach the games' fateful final choice)
* whole cultures represented by one or two NPCs
* solitude and self-sufficiency
* parallel advancement: as you progress through the world so do the NPCs. They too journey alone, pursuing their fate, guarding their secrets closely. Opportunities for cooperation are few. Sometimes, inexplicably, you will find a friend transformed into a foe.

Quotethe lack of a reliable narrator, or atlas, or objective trustworthy source of information about the world

Not so much a function of reliability as of scarcity. Knowledge is delivered a few precious lines at a time. This makes every statement and description incredibly dense. You must work towards an imperfect understanding. Doubt is what makes this world real.

What is the connection between Dark Souls and Demon Souls?

Quote from: Matt Larkin (author)
What is the connection between Dark Souls and Demon Souls?

Dark Souls is the spiritual successor to Demon Souls, written by the same company. They started a new series I believe because Sony owns the rights to Demon Souls (and rumor is they're working on their own sequel to Demon Souls while From works on Dark Souls 2).

Okay, so sell me on the game. I know it's dark medieval fantasy with punishing combat (and now apparently a cool setting), but what's the basic premise. I've started watching the videos you linked, but I'd like to hear a bit more about what's up with this thing.

There's no "basic premise." The game throws you in with very little explanation of what's going on.

From the start, you know that the fires are fading and that's a signal that heralds Bad Shit(tm), and that apparently connected is this plague of the undead. People start appearing with the Darksign on their flesh, which is the mark of the undead curse, and they get thrown into the Undead Asylum to rot. The game starts with you in the Undead Asylum. You are (and most of the characters in this game are) undead.

You escape the Asylum (doing so is the "tutorial" level) and find yourself drawn to a land called Lordaron, which apparently serves as some kind of undead beacon, as undead from all over are turning up there. Once there, you find you mar or may not be the "chosen undead", but what you are chosen to do remains unclear.

There's a lot of business about the undead curse, and retaining the last shreds of your humanity and sanity. The curse of the undead is to eventually go "hollow" (i.e., to become a mindless zombie), and although some strong-willed undead resist this for centuries, it's eventually inevitable. There's a whole game mechanic about humanity, and whether you go around in a more humanlike form or a more hollowlike form (as per default). Being human allows you to kindle bonfires (which are immensely important) with the spark of your humanity, but it means other undead are drawn to that humanity like a beacon (i.e., it opens you up for multiplayer participation in your world. You can solicit help, or you can be invaded while human.)

Okay... I have to be honest, not having a premise sounds more lazy world-building than original... Nevertheless, the undead part does sound cool, and hearing several of you speak highly of it does have my interest.

Quote from: Matt Larkin (author)
Okay... I have to be honest, not having a premise sounds more lazy world-building than original... Nevertheless, the undead part does sound cool, and hearing several of you speak highly of it does have my interest.

I felt the same way at first, as it seemed for a little while like there was little motive to advance through the game, but then you start having brief chats with NPCs that make you say "okay, what's going on?" and the more you seek out the info, the more you find little hints at a creepy backstory and hidden agendas of the people you meet. Speaking from having experienced it way too quickly the first time through, when you get around to trying it out, make sure to take your time and get input from NPCs after you do things - the information they provide usually aids in overcoming an obstacle or hints further at the aforementioned story.

EDIT: Also, I'm going to try to respond to all of the other posts tonight. :)

I earnestly believe this is the best trailer for anything ever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93LFz_j5fQA)

Speaking of which: your debut and Prepare to Die edition trailers are the same.

Quote from: Theopteryx
I earnestly believe this is the best trailer for anything ever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93LFz_j5fQA)

Speaking of which: your debut and Prepare to Die edition trailers are the same.

Noted and fixed. Also, that trailer is indeed amazing. I shall add it to the main post.

EDIT: Still trying to get around to responding to everything. What do you guys think of pick-up Pathfinder and/or FATE games (or some other system) based in the Dark Souls universe?

Depends what you mean by Dark Souls universe. Lordran? The territories of humanity? Set during, before or after the time of the undead curse? Do you intend to tweak rules to make it mechanically reminiscent? Trial and error are pretty central in that respect and I do wonder how one might go about implementing them in Virtual Tabletop. (I can well imagine a Souls board game)

Also: this is a great insight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5GLRWGHJ9Y) into the various NPCs. Consider what each of them says with their dying breath and what that says about them.

Quote from: Theopteryx
Depends what you mean by Dark Souls universe. Lordran? The territories of humanity? Set during, before or after the time of the undead curse? Do you intend to tweak rules to make it mechanically reminiscent? Trial and error are pretty central in that respect and I do wonder how one might go about implementing them in Virtual Tabletop. (I can well imagine a Souls board game)

Also: this is a great insight (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5GLRWGHJ9Y) into the various NPCs. Consider what each of them says with their dying breath and what that says about them.

Probably Lordran. I think it would be fun to play something along the lines of what Reah was doing with Vince and Nico, but add extra areas as seen fit and maybe a few new NPCs. Both before and after could be interesting. I suppose we would need to do some work on a system to make it work but I haven't given it that much thought yet :)

So my reply to everything took way longer than expected, but here it is:

Quote from: LCA thing I really like about deities in this setting is that the line gets really fuzzy around what is a god and what is not. I don't think it's ever actually stated, but I get the strong impression that the gods in this setting are only gods because they've got a lot of power, and the answer to "how much power do you really need before someone starts worshiping you?" is a bit subjective. Gwyn and Nito and the Witch of Izalith  got some of the best power when they picked up the primordial flame, but that didn't really give them fancy fire magic, it just made them more of what they were already becoming. It magnified their scale.

I love the symbolism of stuff like fire in this game, too. The whole game mechanic around pyromancy starts to get really intense when you consider what fire means in the setting, and just who you're emulating when you go around carrying a flame and making it respond to your will. The mechanics reinforce the lore, in that pyromancy doesn't give a crap about who you are or what stats you need, and it doesn't require you to collect esoteric catalysts or whatever. You just pick up a flame and go, and your flame grows with you.

Agreed. I really enjoy the way deities have a weird way of seeming simultaneously involved and not, and are very killable. This has actually inspired my newer iterations of my setting a huge amount, as everything is a bit lower-magic in the sense that the divine beings are very killable. Pyromancy is the coolest thing and I was absolutely blown away by them actually using pyromancy without needing funky magical items or a ridiculously high Int stat.

On that note, what about the ability to spend souls as a currency? If you take the word literally, you're quite powerful even as a lowly Asylum-bound undead...

QuoteOne thing I extra specially love about this game is the way it evokes places you never see. You know what Carim is like, and Thorolund, and Balder, and Vinheim, etc., because you know what kinds of people and things come from those places. Nothing ever barfs forth lore at you: "Carim is like this...", but you do know it's associated with ornate rapiers and creepy cursed rings and a goddess of sin, and an image starts to take shape.

This this this. I like how they managed to combine that so effectively with telling you very little about most of the characters, in particular characters like Lautrec, Artorias and the Four Kings. You hear all about Artorias especially, but even though you're told of his great deeds and encounter the after effects so much of what kind of individual he actually was is forgotten, kept secret or consumed in his exposure to the Abyss.

Quotesin and consequences-- everybody is assumed to be on the verge of falling, it's only a matter of time; everybody has a million dark secrets in their storied pasts

This ties in so well with the vulnerability of the deities in this game.

Quote from: Theo* solitude and self-sufficiency

This definitely, tied with a tendency to break the solitude by featuring hints of other characters' activity in the location in the past (or future, depending on how you choose to interpret the way people like Solaire talk about the nature of summoning)

On a related note, anyone ever notice the stairway in the lower Undead Burg that looks kind of like it was meant to open up? It's on the left side when you head down the stairs and is boarded up, and if you look down from the rampart from when you first enter the area, you can see they definitely drew it in as if it might've been used at some point. But maybe I'm just crazy

I wouldn't be surprised. There are a lot of cool ideas they scrapped because of time constraints: Gwyn and the Bed of Chaos are both simplified versions of the originals. I would particularly like to have seen Oscar of Astora and Shiva of the East's stories fully played out in the game.

Quote from: HoersI like how they managed to combine that so effectively with telling you very little about most of the characters

Nothing the game tells us about Carim is very nice. Oswald and Lautrec both come off as rather... amoral. Then there's Sir Arstor with his bite rings and his purging stones :(

Quote from: Theopteryx
I wouldn't be surprised. There are a lot of cool ideas they scrapped because of time constraints: Gwyn and the Bed of Chaos are both simplified versions of the originals. I would particularly like to have seen Oscar of Astora and Shiva of the East's stories fully played out in the game.

Quote from: HoersI like how they managed to combine that so effectively with telling you very little about most of the characters

Nothing the game tells us about Carim is very nice. Oswald and Lautrec both come off as rather... amoral. Then there's Sir Arstor with his bite rings and his purging stones :(

I sincerely hope the sequel exposes us to more of this. I wonder if it'll be based outside of Lordran? At the very least, we ought to see more NPCs from these places, maybe even more specifics of important characters such as Lautrec.

This might be of interest to my fellow dark souls. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usivi2jO5LU)

I've seen Dark Souls played, I'm familiar with the concepts, and I even spent 3 hours beating the Asylum (judge away).  With all you folks talking now though, I might actually have to shell out for Prepare to Die after all. Thanks for spending my money for me guys!

I will not judge, but I will tell you the feeling of being able to manhandle the Asylum (and most other early parts) once you've played it a few times is highly satisfying.

Quote from: Hoers
I will not judge, but I will tell you the feeling of being able to manhandle the Asylum (and most other early parts) once you've played it a few times is highly satisfying.

I'm sure.  My weakness in videogames though is mechanical execution, so I usually prefer games that reward research and thought over reflexes and muscle memory.  However, I did find myself feeling profoundly satisfied after beating the Asylum demon.

This (https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=d_0nevaVL_I) was recently posted. It's a promising interview and there's also what looks like some new gameplay footage at the end.

"Others of different, but just as heavy curses cross paths and interact." So not the curse of undead?

Quote from: Theopteryx
"Others of different, but just as heavy curses cross paths and interact." So not the curse of undead?

Could be. I wonder if he's alluding to more of what we saw in the first Dark Souls, not so much the Undead Curse itself but what different characters do to cope with/cure it?

Possibly. The language barrier might complicate things as well. What word did they translate as "curses"?

Though for my money, I actually hope the other NPCs are dealing with genuinely different curses. It would lead to some intriguing diversity.

Hmm. What if your character is the first undead?

Bought Prepare to Die and a controller today.  Fiscal irresponsibility at its finest.

You've succumb, Num?!  How am I suppose to resist now?!!!

I want to hear a play-by-play in this thread. Impressions, questions (which we will probably not answer, because spoilers), ragequits... the works.

First it was Lum, then Num... soon will be Hum.

Um....okay....I guess I have to, then....

Can't stop the signal.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
I want to hear a play-by-play in this thread. Impressions, questions (which we will probably not answer, because spoilers), ragequits... the works.

Night 1: I purchased a controller from Gamestop.  It was a brick.  Will report back when I get a real controller.

Quote from: NuminousNight 1: I purchased a controller from Gamestop.  It was a brick.  Will report back when I get a real controller.

This is the very definition of Hardcore Gaming.

Quote from: NuminousNight 1: I purchased a controller from Gamestop.  It was a brick.  Will report back when I get a real controller.

Just glue some titanite shards to it, it's fine

edit:

QuoteBe wary of controller

Quote from: Theopteryx
Possibly. The language barrier might complicate things as well. What word did they translate as "curses"?

Though for my money, I actually hope the other NPCs are dealing with genuinely different curses. It would lead to some intriguing diversity.

Hmm. What if your character is the first undead?

If there are other curses, maybe we'll see lycanthropes done in some weird fashion or something similar?

Being the first undead is definitely possible and might fit in well with how your character starts as a prisoner. Would be interesting to see how they handle you being around for so long without hollowing.

I've deleted most of my characters a few times now. My current characters are a level 68 Darkwraith ur-priest kind of build and I'm working on a level 23 Artorias build. Going to the Catacombs/Tomb of the Giants early is a great time.

One thing I adore about this game is the level design.

I love how distinct a feel each zone has, and how the architecture and art reinforces it, from the crazy overcrowded corridors of the Undead Burg stuck together at weird angles, to the empty vastness of Anor Londo. They're two very different takes on "mostly deserted city" and it's awesome how much total variety is there.

The main thing that tripped me out is how much vertical space there is in the world's layout, and how many different locations are connected not by being "south" or "west" of each other, but stacked above or below. I had a lot of moments where I'd work through a long and difficult path to a location, find the shortcut back to somewhere familiar, and be surprised to find I was directly above or below where I started. The design is very clever about tangling zones and paths together so that one new ladder or elevator or unlocked door makes a great shortcut, but what really gets me is this heavily vertical model for zone interconnections which is pretty awesome. (What's Blighttown? Well it's under the Undead Burg, and it's even under the Depths under the Burg.... that has some implications.)

I also love stuff like being able to see Lost Izalith from the first part of the Tomb of the Giants, or being able to see the Duke's Archives from the top of Sen's Fortress... it's cool to have those glimpses, even when they're really subtle.

All this talk of Dark Souls has me itching to take another stab at an irc game.  Assuming Dark Souls doesn't consume my life. . .

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
One thing I adore about this game is the level design.

I love how distinct a feel each zone has, and how the architecture and art reinforces it, from the crazy overcrowded corridors of the Undead Burg stuck together at weird angles, to the empty vastness of Anor Londo. They're two very different takes on "mostly deserted city" and it's awesome how much total variety is there.

The main thing that tripped me out is how much vertical space there is in the world's layout, and how many different locations are connected not by being "south" or "west" of each other, but stacked above or below. I had a lot of moments where I'd work through a long and difficult path to a location, find the shortcut back to somewhere familiar, and be surprised to find I was directly above or below where I started. The design is very clever about tangling zones and paths together so that one new ladder or elevator or unlocked door makes a great shortcut, but what really gets me is this heavily vertical model for zone interconnections which is pretty awesome. (What's Blighttown? Well it's under the Undead Burg, and it's even under the Depths under the Burg.... that has some implications.)

I also love stuff like being able to see Lost Izalith from the first part of the Tomb of the Giants, or being able to see the Duke's Archives from the top of Sen's Fortress... it's cool to have those glimpses, even when they're really subtle.

I completely agree. I've heard some people say they think the massive ladders and whatnot are cheap ways to connect certain sections but I think they're great. I've actually adopted that kind of transition between areas for Haveneast (along with transitions like those to/from Ariamis and the Abyss). The view from the Duke's Archives is great, when you're looking through the clouds and can kind of see the sprawling land of Lordran and all of the buildings below.

Quote from: Humabout
All this talk of Dark Souls has me itching to take another stab at an irc game.  Assuming Dark Souls doesn't consume my life. . .

It has consumed mine. I'd like to run a Dark Souls IRC game sometime, though... that'd be fun

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
One thing I adore about this game is the level design.

I love how distinct a feel each zone has, and how the architecture and art reinforces it, from the crazy overcrowded corridors of the Undead Burg stuck together at weird angles, to the empty vastness of Anor Londo. They're two very different takes on "mostly deserted city" and it's awesome how much total variety is there.

The main thing that tripped me out is how much vertical space there is in the world's layout, and how many different locations are connected not by being "south" or "west" of each other, but stacked above or below. I had a lot of moments where I'd work through a long and difficult path to a location, find the shortcut back to somewhere familiar, and be surprised to find I was directly above or below where I started. The design is very clever about tangling zones and paths together so that one new ladder or elevator or unlocked door makes a great shortcut, but what really gets me is this heavily vertical model for zone interconnections which is pretty awesome. (What's Blighttown? Well it's under the Undead Burg, and it's even under the Depths under the Burg.... that has some implications.)

I also love stuff like being able to see Lost Izalith from the first part of the Tomb of the Giants, or being able to see the Duke's Archives from the top of Sen's Fortress... it's cool to have those glimpses, even when they're really subtle.

Working with Raelifin on City of the Chosen really turned me on to what architecture and level design have to say about a setting, so I'm looking forward to being more mindful of that in Dark Souls (and Bioshock when I eventually play it).

Also, is there any sort of map that would help a person navigate these shortcuts and whatnot?  Esp. like an abstract map?  I wouldn't use it on my first playthrough, but I always have difficulty breaking out of the default path even when I know there is a shortcut that exists.

This (http://i.neoseeker.com/mgv/14628-Mr%20Gray/628/26/dark_souls_map_5.jpg) is the only map of the game I know of and only shows a small part, but it looks incredible. Most of the game you will just discover by trial-and-error, and some areas, being both completely optional and well-hidden, might evade you for some time.

Man I wish I wasn't so desperately and brutally broke right now. Wanna fund this so bad.

I've played for about an hour so far, only died to the Asylum demon twice (once without weapons because I forgot how to roll).  Maybe half a dozen deaths total due to stupidity like not topping off my health and button mashing.

I do have a question though.  I'm playing as a Pyromancer since LC's comment about your flame growing with you charmed me enough to take it for a spin.  I haven't leveled up yet as I wasn't sure what stats I should be prioritizing?  I'll take advice and/or links to a "guide".  Quotes implying that I don't want a map, just an indication of what I should prioritize mechanically to avoid gimping my character.

Don't put any points in Resistance. It's the only terrible stat.

[spoiler=more stuff about stats]Vitality gives you more HP. Endurance gives you more stamina, and increases your equipment load. You move and roll differently depending whether you are under your max encumberance, under half your max encumberance, or under a quarter of your max encumberance.

You don't need Intelligence/Faith unless you want to eventually learn Sorcery/Miracles, respectively. Looking at the spells will tell you what the requirements are. (Pyromancy spells don't have stat requirements.) Attunement gives you more slots to equip spells in, but not every point coontributes. You don't need Strength/Dex beyond what you need for the prereqs of the weapons you want to wield, but almost all weapons scale and increase their damage along with your stats.

Class is not a thing, it just determines your starting equipment and starting attribute spread. Put points wherever you want to grow your character however you want. The only "rule" is that Resistance is terrible 100% of the time always.[/spoiler]

So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

Quote from: Numinous
I do have a question though.  I'm playing as a Pyromancer since LC's comment about your flame growing with you charmed me enough to take it for a spin.  I haven't leveled up yet as I wasn't sure what stats I should be prioritizing?  I'll take advice and/or links to a "guide".  Quotes implying that I don't want a map, just an indication of what I should prioritize mechanically to avoid gimping my character.

I recommend this for a pyro

[ic=The Vitality Build]

Starting Classes:
1st - Pyromancer
2nd - Bandit

Why: Pyromancers start at the lowest level possible with enough attunement slots and endurance to justify choosing them. They begin with a decent axe weapon, the fireball pyromancy, and they are the easiest to level up of the other classes.

I might also suggest Bandit, but only if you don't want to spend souls bothering with pyromancy - something I don't suggest for a build like this.

Weapon Options:
[Lightning or Chaos] Zweihander +5 (2handed)
[Lightning or Chaos] Claymore +5 (w/ Shield)
[Lightning or Chaos] Bastard Sword +5 (w/ Shield)
Ascended Flame +5

Spells:
Fireball
Combustion
Iron Flesh
Flash Sweat
Greater Combustion
*etc...

*note: Pretty much whatever pyromancy floats your boat at a given time.

Rings:
Havel's Ring
Wolf Ring
Ring of Favor and Protection
Cloranthy Ring

Stat Distribution:
Vit - 40 - Level this up after Str
Att - x
End - 40 - Level this up after Str
Str - 16
Dex - 10
Fai - x
Int - x
Res - x

How to Play: Level up your Str and Dex until the shown levels, and then equally distribute between End and Vit. Basically, you roll through your enemies with pyromancy or your weapon of choice. Your excess Vitality will let you take a few hits, but you need Endurance high so that you can wear the heavier armors and keep your poise up through those attacks. Your weapon choices are slightly limited, but they'll deal enough damage to carry you through at least one playthrough of the game.

40 is the best level to stop at when levelling up any stat, because there's essentially a softcap on your effective returns at that level. Basically, any levels put into a stat past level 40 will give minimal stat returns. When you begin reaching these levels, you should be getting close to the endgame of your first playthrough, or you need to invest more souls into levelling up your pyromancy flame or weapons/armor.

If you choose to make a Chaos weapon, you'll need 10 soft humanity - the humanity that can be lost if you die - available. Chaos weapons scale with your soft humanity. Lightning weapons don't scale at all, and are very effective on most enemies in the game, but there are a few enemies who are specifically weak to flame damage. If you can only choose one, though, then choose lightning.

This build has a bad reputation amongst online players, because even players with a distinct lack of skill can be efficient with this build. If you really don't care about people online, though, then this is a good starting build.
[/ic]

As for me I can't understand my characters:
I can do a backstab blindfolded with my warrior but have issues with the parry.
On the other hand my wanderer can parry like he was born for that, but I'm totally unable to make backstabs!!

Quote from: Humabout
So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

My understanding is that if you can parry, you should.  But if you're going to miss that parry and die, keep the shield.  At least that's how I'm doing it.

@BasnetI: Thank you for the tips.  I don't understand much of it, but the stat stuff is good to know.

So far, I've gotten the Taurus demon in ~3 hours total.  Lots of stupid dying to regular enemies just outside of the bonfire though.  Embarassing!

When you've got a shield that blocks 100% of physical damage, you can be really patient in fights. Mind your stamina (you have to drop the shield to let it regenerate at speed), but you can play as conservatively as you want and wait for openings.

Some enemies, though, it really helps to parry/riposte and create your own openings. You can do so with the same shield equipped.

I recommend practicing on some of the easier undead in the Burg/Parish, to get the hang of the timing down. Also, don't watch the weapon for your timing, watch the hand holding the weapon.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
Don't put any points in Resistance. It's the only terrible stat.

[spoiler=more stuff about stats]Vitality gives you more HP. Endurance gives you more stamina, and increases your equipment load. You move and roll differently depending whether you are under your max encumberance, under half your max encumberance, or under a quarter of your max encumberance.

You don't need Intelligence/Faith unless you want to eventually learn Sorcery/Miracles, respectively. Looking at the spells will tell you what the requirements are. (Pyromancy spells don't have stat requirements.) Attunement gives you more slots to equip spells in, but not every point coontributes. You don't need Strength/Dex beyond what you need for the prereqs of the weapons you want to wield, but almost all weapons scale and increase their damage along with your stats.

Class is not a thing, it just determines your starting equipment and starting attribute spread. Put points wherever you want to grow your character however you want. The only "rule" is that Resistance is terrible 100% of the time always.[/spoiler]

Things I want to add to this very informative post:

-18 points in Int/Faith will get you access to a variety of utility spells such as Cast Light, Fall Control, Repair, Homeward and Heal. More than this is only necessary if you want to use the really powerful spells (and having to put 30+ points in a spellcasting stat will make you weaker physically, which may or may not be a bad thing)

-If you're looking at just your raw defense stats when leveling, consider that for the early levels (probably until your 50s or so, can't remember exactly) a point in any stat will increase your defenses (essentially why Resistance is useless)

-Even though Resistance is terrible, the few extra points you might have due to a starting class value are not going to hamper you too much in your journeys

Quote from: Numinous

Quote from: Humabout
So here's my initial report from yesterdays deathfest:

Yes, I died a lot.  Part of this was because this was the first time playing this sort of weirdass third-person FPS hybrid with lots of melee (something FPS blows at).  Another part was that a lot of the "challenges" weren't so much difficult as just puzzles.  Once you realize how you are suppose to get through one, it's not terribly difficult.  The asylum demon is a great example of this.

As for game feel, so far it's great.  Very dark and kind of odd.  I hope I can get use to the weird (to me, anyway) interface pretty soon so I can really start enjoying this game.  For the record, I started with Warrior, because I like to hit things until they die.  I am torn between two-handing it or going sword and board.  How much better/worse is a shield than parrying?

My understanding is that if you can parry, you should.  But if you're going to miss that parry and die, keep the shield.  At least that's how I'm doing it.

@BasnetI: Thank you for the tips.  I don't understand much of it, but the stat stuff is good to know.

So far, I've gotten the Taurus demon in ~3 hours total.  Lots of stupid dying to regular enemies just outside of the bonfire though.  Embarassing!

Parrying is beneficial in that the critical strike that follows is more powerful than a backstab, and even if you don't strike following one it gives you a bit of time to back away or whatnot. You can parry more enemies than you'd think (try the Black Knights in the Burg, but DON'T try it on Havel :P). That being said, you can also dodge almost any attack in the game, so two-handing is also very viable, and your success with either style really just depends on your timing and what you're more comfortable with.

Comfort with fighting styles will change over time, too. When I started I was a turtle (shield up all the time, heavy armor) but now I often two-hand with low equip load for the maximum speed, and will drop my shield in favor of a talisman.

Basnetl's build is a good guide for a very survival-oriented character on your first playthrough. Keep in mind that if you're using pyromancy/faith/miracles for more than just a single buff or heal, you'll probably want enough Attunement to give you at least 4 spell slots (16 points). This is especially the case if you're using more than one kind of magic (Pyromancy/Miracles and Pyromancy/Sorcery are the easier combos) or if you're using any of the spells that are powerful enough to require two slots.

The first shield available that blocks 100% physical damage is either the Spider Shield (if you picked Bandit) or the Heater Shield (if you picked Warrior). The Heater is also available from the Undead Merchant in the Burg for 1000 souls.

Much of the value of particular starting classes is based on what gear you start with, but given the aforementioned ability to build whatever you want with any character class, even this doesn't matter much.

Level 87 now my most recent build. Darkwraith using Sunlight Blade/Wrath of the Gods/Dark Flame/Tranquil Walk of Peace along with a Chaos Great Scythe and a +15 Iaito. Dex/Faith build basically. I think of it as an ur-priest using the power of Gwyn and his kin (gonna get the Sunlight Spear eventually) against them.

Will post screenshots.

My god that's still greek to me!  I have finally reached another bonfire and am finally getting use to the interface for the game.  It's an awesome game.  I can't wait to get further into this.

The more I play this game, the more I love it and the more I think it'd make an awesome dungeon crawl slugfest of a game.  It'd also be an awesome setting just to adventure in.

I did get the game and start playing. I am quite enjoying it. LC was right, not as difficult as it was portrayed.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
I want to hear a play-by-play in this thread. Impressions, questions (which we will probably not answer, because spoilers), ragequits... the works.

So, ah,

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: Luminous Crayon
I want to hear a play-by-play in this thread. Impressions, questions (which we will probably not answer, because spoilers), ragequits... the works.

So, ah,

Grad school ate my life.  Will report when I actually have a free hour to put into the game!

So hit something annoying today.  I regained my humanity so I could summon a couple of NPCs for a boss fight, and some tool invaded me and killed me.  And he thought it was cute to keep invading me, so I stopped playing for the day.  Is there a way to prevent invasion so I can PvE in peace?

Disable the internet or stay hollowed. There's no in-game way to prevent invasion if you are human.

One thing you can do sometimes is sprint for the fog gate. If you start the boss fight, invaders won't be able to follow you.

Also, there's a hidden timer on invading the same person, so unless something weird is going on, somebody shouldn't be able to grief you repeatedly like that.

Also also, covenants: [spoiler]There are a few covenants that will make you more likely to find members of them online. (You can join one of them quite easily from the priest by Firelink Shrine.) Because of the way connections work in Dark Souls, having more "nearby" connections from a friendly covenant means you'll have fewer nearby connections from Darkwraiths.

Probably.

It's sort of poorly understood.[/spoiler]

Thank you for the info guys!  Do you know how long the timer is?  And does it reset if I hit up a firelink shrine?  I'm down with farming until I can do this thing in peace.

Quote from: Humabout
Thank you for the info guys!  Do you know how long the timer is?  And does it reset if I hit up a firelink shrine?  I'm down with farming until I can do this thing in peace.

I'm not sure if it resets by visiting a bonfire and don't know the time, but there is an item in the game that allows you to reset it to be invaded again. It might sound weird at first, but take the invasions as an opportunity to improve yourself - sometimes they can be really hard to come by, and the first time you get one of those pvp wins you'll feel electric.

See, I wouldn't have minded so much of an issue if I didn't lose the last of my humanity and am stuck trying to farm some now.  It just seems kind of irritating, since the game itself had nothing to do with me getting stuck, and I am really liking the game so far.  If I get bored farming, I might start a new character.  I can probably do things better on a new run through anyway.  I killed the undead merchant before loading up on ammo and had to circumvent one of the other bosses (trying not to spoil anything here).

I tried a pyromancer first, but didn't love it, then started a Knight and liked it better. High Poise, high shield stability, strong armor--works for me. Odd, because I don't usually go for tank builds, but I'm liking it in this game.

Really?  I'm scared to tank in this game.  I'm going the nimble route (still haven't tried complicating things with magic, miracles or pyromancy) and am loving it.  My timing still sucks, but it's improving.

Knights are unusual as a starting class, because unless I am mistaken they are the only class whose starting gear puts them into the "above 50% of the weight limit" range, so they move differently than other classes. Poise is great, but I could never get used to being slow.

You can "tank" quite a lot with a good shield and some stamina management timing. The real trick is learning what is possible to tank and what is too dangerous to stand in front of.

I've found, so far, with a high stability shield, jacked up stamina, and good armor/ HP, I can tank almost anything. Some things still deal damage, but usually I can just pop the flask and be back to full before the foe has recovered from its animation. I mean, of course, it grows as your character developed. Early in the build I tried to fight Havel the Rock and his attack tore through my shield. I fought him last night, and it only took about 2/3 of the stamina bar. And yeah, as LC says, stamina management timing.

Speaking of stamina management, I also fought Sif last night. When he picked up that sword, I was going WTF?

It was actually the Knight's gear that attracted me to it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWRIO92R_pQ le omg DS2 beta video

You saw that too? Can you wait? I cannot, and I'm still working on ds1

I cannot contain myself. The atmosphere. The improved graphics. The sound of the two-handed weapons when they smash into the ground. The way Darkwraiths seem to have a larger role as NPCs in the game. I can't wait.

Made it to Anor Londo and got sucked into a random painting.  I really need to learn not to just click "OK!" on every offer in the game.  I really love the contrast between Anor Londo and the Burg.  I've been fighting my way through such cramped, decayed areas that the vastness and emptiness really hits home.  It's also a cool fusion of classical and gothic architecture.  Really cool and unique.

Quote from: Humabout
Made it to Anor Londo and got sucked into a random painting.  I really need to learn not to just click "OK!" on every offer in the game.  I really love the contrast between Anor Londo and the Burg.  I've been fighting my way through such cramped, decayed areas that the vastness and emptiness really hits home.  It's also a cool fusion of classical and gothic architecture.  Really cool and unique.

The painting is one of the more interesting areas, I thought. Also a good soul farming spot, should that interest you.

I have been farming souls mostly because I keep getting toxified.  Lol.  Either way, I'm going to end up with tons of Endurance and Dex before this is over, I can already see!

I really love the painting.

You can help protect yourself from toxicity if you switch to a spear for those particular enemies. Nice timing on a backward somersault helps, too.

QuoteI really love the contrast between Anor Londo and the Burg.  I've been fighting my way through such cramped, decayed areas that the vastness and emptiness really hits home.  It's also a cool fusion of classical and gothic architecture.  Really cool and unique.

Yes! Anor Londo is creepy for how sunset-bright and empty it is, particularly after you get there through Sen's Fortress (another of my favorite areas, aesthetically, and also a huge contrast.)

I love the stark contrasts between areas.  From Sen's Fortress to Anor Londo, and now in the gothic painting.  Good tip with the spear; I'm going to try it out.  I just loooove my +10 Uchi, though.  Lol.  And yes, my timing needs improvement.  I still suck at parries, too.

Quote from: Humabout
I love the stark contrasts between areas.  From Sen's Fortress to Anor Londo, and now in the gothic painting.  Good tip with the spear; I'm going to try it out.  I just loooove my +10 Uchi, though.  Lol.  And yes, my timing needs improvement.  I still suck at parries, too.

I did for most of the game, too. Then I found out it was pretty much the only way my melee guy was beating the final area, so I practiced it a bit.

If I ever escape this painting, I may go back to the parish and practice a bit.

The painting is one of my favorite areas. Also, I believe if you kill the toxic guys with fire they won't explode (KILL IT WITH FIRE).

There's a situation where Anor Londo becomes dark. Much fun.

Um, I don't have much fire . . .  I have been making this entire game unnecessarily hard, I'm quickly learning.  I suppose it'll make me a better player, at least?

A random question:  Is there a way to transfer equipment between characters?

Quote from: Hoers
The painting is one of my favorite areas. Also, I believe if you kill the toxic guys with fire they won't explode (KILL IT WITH FIRE).

Or you can also just jump back after killing them. If your weapon has a decent range, you should be fine.

I plan on testing out the winged spear on some of these twerps tomorrow.  If it works, I will be pleased.  If not, I will pump my endurance more because I'm a total endurance whore.  Hmm....hoers mentioned fire.  Perhaps I should dust off some pyromancy?  I don't really use it much because it requires me to get too close without my uchi (i like my uchi, though I hear scythes are pretty wicked, too. I need to obtain one).

Quote from: Humabout
I plan on testing out the winged spear on some of these twerps tomorrow.  If it works, I will be pleased.  If not, I will pump my endurance more because I'm a total endurance whore.  Hmm....hoers mentioned fire.  Perhaps I should dust off some pyromancy?  I don't really use it much because it requires me to get too close without my uchi (i like my uchi, though I hear scythes are pretty wicked, too. I need to obtain one).

An upgraded pyromancy flame should make fireball or fire orb ideal for them. But he's correct, a reach weapon is really all you need.

How upgraded?.... >>

Laurentius of the Great Swamp (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/laurentius) will upgrade pyromancies. Quelaana of Izalith (http://darksouls.wikidot.com/quelaana-of-izalith) will ascend them.

Of this I am aware.  I am also stuck in a painting far from the fire link shrine :/ I have slightly upgraded my flame though.  I'll bash my way through this mess; I have every other section so far.  It would just be a lot easier for me if I didn't keep not doing seemingly critical things (like getting a burning weapon or farming nets before blight town or getting that spider shield thingy before blight town too).

Y'all might like this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5N7J802QzP4)

That was pretty cool.  Thanks for sharing that!  Also, stabbity spear death does help.  :)  Though I see a dragon in the distance.  This disheartens me.

If anyone is interested, I wrote a review for DS (http://www.incandescentphoenix.com/phoenix-reviews/dark-souls/). I'm trying to do that now, for games I finish.

Very nice! Have you finished it now and experienced the added challenges (particularly Gravelord Servants) in NG+?

Quote from: Hoers
Very nice! Have you finished it now and experienced the added challenges (particularly Gravelord Servants) in NG+?

I have finished it, yeah. Sadly, I haven't had time to do much with NG+. I'd like to, but I really felt compelled to move on to other games. I just finished AC III, and now I'm doing Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD for review.

Quote from: att LarkinI'm doing Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD

:-| sssso jealoussssssss.

Quote from: Sergeant Anarchy

Quote from: att LarkinI'm doing Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD

:-| sssso jealoussssssss.

Not actually loving it as much as I did first time around :/

Quote from: Matt Larkin (author)

Quote from: Sergeant Anarchy

Quote from: att LarkinI'm doing Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD

:-| sssso jealoussssssss.

Not actually loving it as much as I did first time around :/

.....lessss jealousssssss.

Quote from: SA

Quote from: Matt Larkin (author)

Quote from: Sergeant Anarchy

Quote from: att LarkinI'm doing Kingdom Hearts 1.5 HD

:-| sssso jealoussssssss.

Not actually loving it as much as I did first time around :/

.....lessss jealousssssss.

Off topic, but if you want to see my review of KH 1.5 (http://www.incandescentphoenix.com/phoenix-reviews/kingdom-hearts-1-5-hd/)

Dark Souls is $10.19 right now (Steam Holiday Sale (http://store.steampowered.com/app/211420/)). If anyone's been looking to pick it up it's this cheap and might get cheaper.

Why didn't I wait to pick it up?!!! 

BECAUSE ITS AWESOMENESS WAS CALLING MR THROUGH MY DREAMS!

Quote from: Hoers
Dark Souls is $10.19 right now (Steam Holiday Sale (http://store.steampowered.com/app/211420/)). If anyone's been looking to pick it up it's this cheap and might get cheaper.

It's six bucks for the rest of today and for some part of tomorrow.

I have kind of a notion to start a thread here at the CBG for computer games in general: both for games which are interesting from a worldbuilding point of view and for games that we might wish to play together as a community. There's a lot of coop/multiplayer stuff lately that I wouldn't mind exploring along with ya'll keen-minded so-and-sos.

Quote from: Lmns Crn

Quote from: Hoers
Dark Souls is $10.19 right now (Steam Holiday Sale (http://store.steampowered.com/app/211420/)). If anyone's been looking to pick it up it's this cheap and might get cheaper.

It's six bucks for the rest of today and for some part of tomorrow.

I have kind of a notion to start a thread here at the CBG for computer games in general: both for games which are interesting from a worldbuilding point of view and for games that we might wish to play together as a community. There's a lot of coop/multiplayer stuff lately that I wouldn't mind exploring along with ya'll keen-minded so-and-sos.

That sounds like a great idea!

Okay so I'm reviving an old thread because I had to brag.

Shortly after starting this thread I hit a serious block in Dark Souls (more properly, two blocks at the same time: a Block O. and a Block S., if you gather my meaning). I tried that fight a bunch of times, got discouraged, and put the game down until today.

So today I got the notion to try a couple things differently. Got a shiny new sword, a couple of levels of Dex to use it properly, and a fancy miracle to make it glow a pretty color. Rounded up a pair of phantoms to back me up, and burned those bosses down in the first attempt.

I am become Death.

Quote from: Lmns Crn
Okay so I'm reviving an old thread because I had to brag.

Shortly after starting this thread I hit a serious block in Dark Souls (more properly, two blocks at the same time: a Block O. and a Block S., if you gather my meaning). I tried that fight a bunch of times, got discouraged, and put the game down until today.

So today I got the notion to try a couple things differently. Got a shiny new sword, a couple of levels of Dex to use it properly, and a fancy miracle to make it glow a pretty color. Rounded up a pair of phantoms to back me up, and burned those bosses down in the first attempt.

I am become Death.

Having summons is a whole new experience. I'm playing yet another character right now, a level 30 Sunbro on 360. It really helps if you get invaded, too

I'm currently level 51 on 360 as a tanky bastard sword sunbro if anyone needs help with Four Kings, Ornstein & Smough, Tomb of the Giants or even Demon Ruins. Will be advancing to level 60 soon and will be looking for summons too. Playing under account Gluten Ex

A friend and I have been discussing D-Souls-style NPCs in tabletop rpgs, and what they need in order to really convey the DS atmosphere. We've had mixed success applying these principles in our sessions, so I can hardly call these prescriptive.

Consistency: All, or at least nearly all of the recurring NPCs will need to adhere to the format. By itself, a D-Souls NPC is just a Mysterious Stranger and not very Souls-y at all. They must cooperate to create a world of "shared isolation".

Flair: Give them signature weapons, odd clothing, peculiar mannerisms. In a Souls game they'd be the only NPCs, but in a TTRPG they need to stand out among countless nameless extras instead. DSNPCs are all fish out of water. The setting is, either figuratively or literally, not their home.

Goals: Every NPC is up to something. They're waiting, or journeying, or scheming, or striving, or slipping slowly into madness. Even the Crestfallen Warrior gets up to mischief before the end.

Cameos: Don't let them stick around. Draw attention to them once, then make a point of mentioning their absence when they're gone, but make them go. The ones who do hang around should be the least verbose or intrusive (The Emerald Herald in Dark Souls 2 is a great example of FromSoft getting this wrong themselves; compare her to the comparatively terse and markedly more compelling Maiden in Black of Demon's Souls).

Obstruction: Something that can be accomplished in the adventure will either help or hinder the NPC's progress. Some other thing will make their progress absolutely impossible, or else absolutely ensure it.

Request: (optional) The NPC wants something from the PCs. This is usually in addition to, not instead of, the obstruction.

Fate: If the PCs do not interfere at all, this is what happens to the NPC.

Disincentives: NPCs are not for killing. They're like mood lighting; don't go breaking all the bulbs. You want the players to witness the NPC's future narrative, and since this isn't actually Dark Souls, they probably won't "replay" this and choose another route next time.

These conditions should all be very conspicuous. If we imagine the PCs are progressing through their own stories, then the NPCs' transformations should parallel them, chapter by chapter, and the players should notice.

Who's playing the sequel?

I'm in NG+ on my hybrid warrior/caster, currently at No Man's Wharf. Looking Glass Knight is the most epic battle. Undead Crypt is wicked. Shaded Woods are awesome.

Everything's awesome.

The new message options are great. I see "dwarf but hole" and "horse but hole" everywhere

Superb on PC. Fanastic PvP. Disappointing lore. I'm really looking forward to Bloodborne.

Dear friend, take heed: (http://youtu.be/Hdzpy5UXT0Y)

The blood is foul (http://youtu.be/oWId6_Pemck)

I started playing DS2 a few days ago. Cleric build. Game is awesome.

http://imgur.com/a/zrsNh le omg

I could not get into these games for the life of me. The lore didn't do it for me either.

To each their own. The first Dark Souls violently made its way into the #1 spot of my top-5 all-time games list and will probably never leave.

Quote from: Space Hoers
To each their own. The first Dark Souls violently made its way into the #1 spot of my top-5 all-time games list and will probably never leave.

I think Dark Souls just rejects some people, unfortunately.  I am in love with it aesthetically and philosophically but when it comes to actually playing it, I cannot find the groove.

The only thing that keeps me from really getting into it is time. I think when I submit my dissertation I'm going to take a week off and just immerse.

Quote from: Space Hoers
http://imgur.com/a/zrsNh le omg

OMG yes!