Because I can't find a thread about it, yet I really want to talk about Asura.
Thanks in advance!
Edited by sparkletwist: Use this one! :)
Don't you know the first rule of Asura (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0137523/)? :grin:
No, really, at some point when I'm not lazy I'll get a proper thread up, but, for now, feel free to just... use this one! I'd be happy to answer questions and such, of course.
Okay, thanks! That was mighty quick!
Stuff to say about Asura:
I am really intrigued by the system, and wish I understood it a bit more fluently. It seems "FATE but crunchier", which is appealing to my sensibilities, but there's this weird thing where it seems very familiar in some ways and foreign in others (where it diverges from FATE, and throws me a bit). I love the different Prana powers, and the "mix and match at will, however best suits your character concept" mentality. (Fear my Insubstance/Astrogation/Pathos Demon, ya'll.) I also really dig the five elements/six conduits/creation-preservation-destruction design, partially because of my love of symmetry and categories, and partially because playing mix-and-match with these traits and with the prana powers is a really fun character brainstorming method.
I love the feel of the setting, where you can be a spaceship pilot transnavigating the parts of the universe shattered by capital-C Chaos, wielding rayguns powered by crystal dust and magic powers granted by the nanotechnology in your bloodstream, because you're seeking a showdown with your former kung fu master, who has now gone mad and declared herself empress of a planet at the hidden heart of a black hole, using the power she gained over death by being too stubborn to die. Because hey, that's awesome.
I love the way the mechanics are written, and the way action resolution and failure are described, and how it all comes together to support the tone of the game. It's like a love letter to this high-flying action style, and to each individual character. It's a system that wants players to make awesome characters and use them to do awesome things, to achieve big and to fail heroically, and to surprise each other with crazy amazing creative stuff. I want to run a fight scene in this system between high-powered elemental martial arts masters just to watch what they do.
Earth is the coolest elemental association. I keep looking at the different Asura pages, thinking "this time I'm going to like one the best that isn't Earth", but... nah.
I am on this increased Asura reading kick lately, and it's not helping me mentally cope with my "no time to run any game, ever, for the foreseeable future" situation.
Thanks for the comments. :D
Quote from: Luminous CrayonIt seems "FATE but crunchier", which is appealing to my sensibilities, but there's this weird thing where it seems very familiar in some ways and foreign in others (where it diverges from FATE, and throws me a bit). I love the different Prana powers, and the "mix and match at will, however best suits your character concept" mentality. (Fear my Insubstance/Astrogation/Pathos Demon, ya'll.)
"FATE but crunchier" was my goal, so I'm glad it comes across that way! There is, of course, something of a learning curve if you're only familiar with vanilla FATE, particularly any non-Dresden FATE. I'm happy to answer any specific questions you might have, of course.
I'm also glad that the "mix and match" approach resonated well with you. Originally, earlier in the design of Prana powers, each power was linked much more strongly to an Asura lineage. There were powers (that didn't make the cut in the current revision) like "Diabolos" that was
overtly a Demonic thing. And this worked, except, on some level... it was kind of confining. Asuras are supposed to be super-powerful-fantastic, and the game is about creativity and audacity. So, instead, the current crop of powers are designed around providing cool things that I imagine Asuras might do, but the actual flavor of the powers and how they harmonize with a character's lineage and backstory is up to the player.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI love the feel of the setting, where you can be a spaceship pilot transnavigating the parts of the universe shattered by capital-C Chaos, wielding rayguns powered by crystal dust and magic powers granted by the nanotechnology in your bloodstream, because you're seeking a showdown with your former kung fu master, who has now gone mad and declared herself empress of a planet at the hidden heart of a black hole, using the power she gained over death by being too stubborn to die. Because hey, that's awesome.
You've captured the feel of Asura perfectly! Much more than I've usually managed to. At one point, you said something like "I feel validated about the time I put into my setting because other people have created really cool things in it that I never would've thought of," or something like that. That whole description for me was one of those moments, for me.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI want to run a fight scene in this system between high-powered elemental martial arts masters just to watch what they do.
Hey, me too. Some kind of Mortal Kombat ish over the top "Martial arts tournament to determine the fate of the world" could work pretty well in Asura. Or... for that matter, if you run it, I want to play in it.
Feel free to take an Asura badge! (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/d/dd/AsuraBadge.png) (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Asura)
Quote from: sparkletwistYou've captured the feel of Asura perfectly!
Well, sounds like Asura's just my kind of offthewall crazy. Better take a closer look.
I remember Diabolos, back from the earlier system where each Asura type had exactly one unique Prana power, plus Elemental Sorcery if they wanted it. I think this system works a lot better (even though I quite liked the notion of that one at the time). I still have a lot of curiosity about the "signature Prana powers" of various Asuras (like Necromancy and Alchemy) which are not very fleshed out yet, and what they will grow into.
I have a couple of questions about Resonance and Dissonance, which may be confusing to me only because I haven't found the character creation guidelines. Or not. Who knows? (At any rate, I think some practice with the system, or maybe some examples, would be helpful.)
Isn't Supernatural kind of a must-have skill, because without it you don't have a Resonance pool? I know you don't strictly need resonance, but it seems like the other Dissonance-reduction options are really disadvantageous. I don't know whether the system is designed to avoid the need for must-have skills or not, so maybe this isn't even a problem. (Also, is it the only skill with an adjective name, rather than a noun name? I am too lazy to check.)
There's a section on the Prana page for "Released Dissonance", and I can't figure out when it would come into play at all. All the above options for controlling Dissonance (Resonance, Stunts+Aspects, taking it on as damage) seem to eliminate the Dissonance, not release it.
All in all, it seems like (and maybe I'm wrong) characters are going to be often unable to really control dissonance with Resonance, past the first one or two Prana powers they use in a scene, and are going to have to carefully budget their Prana use or deal with Dissonance in costlier ways. Is that correct?
Also, does Resonance have any other use, besides as a Dissonance buffer?
I really like that these gameplay elements are named Dissonance and Resonance. That's powerfully evocative, right there.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI still have a lot of curiosity about the "signature Prana powers" of various Asuras
Signature Prana Powers aren't really a thing any more. Like, most of what was once Diabolos got folded into Sententia and Synergy, only it's less "Demon-flavored" now. Necromancy is still a thing, and rather common among Revenants, but it's not solely their thing-- Demons and even some weird Paragons and Progenitors might do it, too, because I didn't want to put any huge restrictions on character concepts. I don't like how in systems like D&D certain races limit your options mechanically (e.g., it is fundamentally just
not as good to try to play a Gnome Barbarian or Dwarf Sorcerer or whatever) and after a lot of thought I decided that I didn't want to have anything like that in Asura.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI haven't found the character creation guidelines.
I'm still tweaking them a bit, but most of the relevant info is here (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Character_Creation_%28Asura%29).
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI think some practice with the system, or maybe some examples, would be helpful.
You could take a look at the Asura Primer (http://www.thecbg.org/index.php/topic,209455.0.html) or the Combat Examples (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Combat_Examples_%28Asura%29) for some explanations and examples of how the system works. I think I need some examples of Prana Powers in use, though...
Quote from: Luminous CrayonIsn't Supernatural kind of a must-have skill, because without it you don't have a Resonance pool? I know you don't strictly need resonance, but it seems like the other Dissonance-reduction options are really disadvantageous. I don't know whether the system is designed to avoid the need for must-have skills or not, so maybe this isn't even a problem.
...
All in all, it seems like (and maybe I'm wrong) characters are going to be often unable to really control dissonance with Resonance, past the first one or two Prana powers they use in a scene, and are going to have to carefully budget their Prana use or deal with Dissonance in costlier ways. Is that correct?
Yes, the system is actually
sort of intended to not have "must-have" skills, although some skills like Alertness still end up being worth a whole lot. So, as for Supernatural, I think it's definitely useful, but characters can be effective at using Prana Powers without it, too. There are some powers and items that grant some more Resonance, but they are a bit undeveloped right now. Most of the time, characters are either going to be in physical combat (where HP is an issue) or in mental/social combat (where MP is an issue) and this leaves them with another "energy bar" that they can burn off for invocation without really having to worry that much.
Stunt Points can be used as well. If nothing else, you can always ask for compels to get SP to fuel Prana Powers-- heroes struggling with powers they can't quite control fits pretty well with the themes of Asura. For example, let's say a Demon (or a particularly crazy Faerie, for that matter) has a lovely aspect called, say, "Collateral damage? What's that?" Something like that could be compelled just about every time Sorcery or Insubstance or any number of other powers come into play, giving 1 SP to immediately replace the SP that will be spent to use the power. In effect, the character is getting to use the power for free, in exchange for creating all sorts of mayhem that can drive the story in interesting directions.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonThere's a section on the Prana page for "Released Dissonance", and I can't figure out when it would come into play at all. All the above options for controlling Dissonance (Resonance, Stunts+Aspects, taking it on as damage) seem to eliminate the Dissonance, not release it.
Released Dissonance used to be a lot more of a thing back when there was a Dresden-FATE-like control roll vs. your incurred Dissonance. I got rid of that, so now the only times you see it are when a Prana Power goes very wrong or when you're dispelling someone else's power and all that energy has to go somewhere.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonAlso, does Resonance have any other use, besides as a Dissonance buffer?
No, it doesn't.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI really like that these gameplay elements are named Dissonance and Resonance. That's powerfully evocative, right there.
Thanks. :D
Thank you for the links! Some of this stuff is a little buried on the wiki, but I guess that's fine since it's unfinished and experimental. (Alternately, I could use category pages like someone with any sense might, I guess.)
QuoteYes, the system is actually sort of intended to not have "must-have" skills, although some skills like Alertness still end up being worth a whole lot. So, as for Supernatural, I think it's definitely useful, but characters can be effective at using Prana Powers without it, too. There are some powers and items that grant some more Resonance, but they are a bit undeveloped right now. Most of the time, characters are either going to be in physical combat (where HP is an issue) or in mental/social combat (where MP is an issue) and this leaves them with another "energy bar" that they can burn off for invocation without really having to worry that much.
Stunt Points can be used as well. If nothing else, you can always ask for compels to get SP to fuel Prana Powers-- heroes struggling with powers they can't quite control fits pretty well with the themes of Asura. For example, let's say a Demon (or a particularly crazy Faerie, for that matter) has a lovely aspect called, say, "Collateral damage? What's that?" Something like that could be compelled just about every time Sorcery or Insubstance or any number of other powers come into play, giving 1 SP to immediately replace the SP that will be spent to use the power. In effect, the character is getting to use the power for free, in exchange for creating all sorts of mayhem that can drive the story in interesting directions.
This makes a lot more sense. The Dissonance options, other than Resonance, are basically plugged into pure FATE stuff. I love the idea of stunt points being a major way to fuel Prana powers through inviting aspect compels, because a.) mo' compels = mo' better, and b.) mechanically reinforcing that idea of Asuras having massive, barely-controlled power is awesome. (Is the assumption that a player will be able to, rather than waiting for the GM to offer a compel on an aspect, just say "I'm going to activate Prana X, and Aspect Y is causing a problem with it" to offset the cost?)
Love the idea of a system where, for example, a character in a physical fight can be throwing around intense Prana and soaking up that Dissonance with mental stress, and a smart opponent who notices this can change tactics to use deception, or coercion, or mentalism, or something else that would use the mental stress track to take advantage of that exhaustion.
QuoteSignature Prana Powers aren't really a thing any more. Like, most of what was once Diabolos got folded into Sententia and Synergy, only it's less "Demon-flavored" now. Necromancy is still a thing, and rather common among Revenants, but it's not solely their thing-- Demons and even some weird Paragons and Progenitors might do it, too, because I didn't want to put any huge restrictions on character concepts. I don't like how in systems like D&D certain races limit your options mechanically (e.g., it is fundamentally just not as good to try to play a Gnome Barbarian or Dwarf Sorcerer or whatever) and after a lot of thought I decided that I didn't want to have anything like that in Asura.
I remember you discussing that ideal some time ago.
This is interesting. If there's truly no reason, besides flavor, to nudge particular Asura types towards certain Prana types and away from others, is it accurate to characterize Asura types as a wholly flavorful choice (albeit a huge one that influences all the other choices you're going to make later)?
Quote from: Luminous CrayonIs the assumption that a player will be able to, rather than waiting for the GM to offer a compel on an aspect, just say "I'm going to activate Prana X, and Aspect Y is causing a problem with it" to offset the cost?
Yes, definitely. That's what I meant by "ask for compels." I think games of Asura (and FATE, and pretty much every other system built on the same core ideas) go better when players-- who are inherently going to know their characters better than the GM-- are comfortable and indeed encouraged to take the lead in coming up with good compels for their characters and creating interesting and potentially challenging situations.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonLove the idea of a system where, for example, a character in a physical fight can be throwing around intense Prana and soaking up that Dissonance with mental stress, and a smart opponent who notices this can change tactics to use deception, or coercion, or mentalism, or something else that would use the mental stress track to take advantage of that exhaustion.
Oh yes. :grin:
Quote from: Luminous CrayonIf there's truly no reason, besides flavor, to nudge particular Asura types towards certain Prana types and away from others, is it accurate to characterize Asura types as a wholly flavorful choice (albeit a huge one that influences all the other choices you're going to make later)?
This is a tough question because of how much the flavor and the crunch mix in a system like Asura. I mean, on some level, it might be true in the sense that there aren't hard rules like "Revenants get +2 to this skill and -2 to that one" but one's Asura lineage has a lot of "soft influence," I think. It is of course going to have a significant impact on aspects, and a character's aspects are going to have a very real impact on what kind of things stunts can do as well as the kind of actions that character is going to be compelled towards. Beyond that, lineage does affect minor things like what sort of Sorcery you learn, whether your Insubstance is Prodigal or Ruinous, what your default Asura Martial Arts stance is, and such things.
I've started adding an example of Prana Powers in combat to the Combat Examples (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Combat_Examples_%28Asura%29#Prana_Powers) page. It took longer than I thought, so it's just one round for now, but I'll hopefully get around to more soon. :)