What I want to do: copy my setting wiki here (that's its most complete and coherent form among scattered drafts, files, etc.) to a desktop wiki with minimal fuss and hassle, and market it in that format instead of as a PDF. So:
Has anyone worked with any desktop wikis (like Tidlywiki or Zim)? Any recommendations for freeware wikis - need to operate cross-platform (like java applications) on Win, Mac & Linux. Secondly, once my app choice is made I want to port my setting as on the CBG wiki to it, so I guess I'm wanting it to implement HTML (or whatever) as close to Mediawiki as possible in order to minimize subsequent editing nightmares. Finally, is there anyway to copy/download the entire setting collectively rather than copy a page at a time?
I currently run two desktop mediawiki wikis, all of the software for which is free for download. I've made custom skins and set them up with just an online tutorial, so it isn't terribly difficult. As for copying it over, talk to sparkle or nom. They might be able to just send you files for the content (I'm not sure just how integrated the different pages are within the database).
Perhaps try Wikidpad.
Mediawiki - different implementation of the same as used to host the CBG's wiki? If so it would be great, assuming that there are no subsequent issues with selling something that uses it. Granted, it could be sold simply as files for it and the buyer would have to get and install the wiki engine themselves but it would be far better if the engine were included in the bundle to simply download, plug and play.
Quote from: Humabout
I currently run two desktop mediawiki wikis, all of the software for which is free for download. I've made custom skins and set them up with just an online tutorial, so it isn't terribly difficult. As for copying it over, talk to sparkle or nom. They might be able to just send you files for the content (I'm not sure just how integrated the different pages are within the database).
Digging through the Mediawiki site (and whatever I can get out of goggle) I'm not finding any personal/desktop Mediawiki implementations, only the webhosting stuff. Got link?
1. You will need to download and set up a WAMP server (this is also free). Software is here. (http://www.wampserver.com/en/)
2. Download Mediawiki here. (http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Download)
3. Copy the entirety of the Mediawiki folder into the www folder in WAMP and rename it whatever you want your wiki to be called.
4. Open your browser and type "http://localhost/<wiki name goes here>/" in the address bar. This will prompt your wiki to set itself up. Be sure you are running your WAMP at the time.
Because you will be setting your computer up as a server, you should be sure you have a firewall and antivirus package running. You should also make sure you have diffferent passwords everywhere WAMP or mediawiki offers one. This is the good kind of paranoia.
Quote from: Snargash Moonclaw
Mediawiki - different implementation of the same as used to host the CBG's wiki?
Same exact software used for wikipedia, this website's wiki, and other wikis around the web. It's really fantastic and easy to use. If you know any CSS, you can completely change the look and feel of your wiki, as well.
Quote from: Snargash MoonclawFinally, is there anyway to copy/download the entire setting collectively rather than copy a page at a time?
Unfortunately, no. The wiki software has no concept of what "your setting" is. I think there is a way to download the entire wiki's database, for mirroring or the like, but that will give you
every page on the wiki, and is as such probably not what you want either.
Quote from: Snargash Moonclawassuming that there are no subsequent issues with selling something that uses it
There shouldn't be, but you should probably read over the Mediawiki license to be sure. One issue will be if you copy content from the CBG wiki you will have to ensure you only copy content you yourself created-- the Creative Commons license in use on the wiki forbids the commercial use of anything you don't own.
The idea is really interesting, SM, but how would you sell it? Would your clients need special software to use your setting? That might be a big turn off for many people.
This is potentially not going to be helpful to you, but:
you can get many of the same benefits of a personal wiki (although in a different format) by using Microsoft OneNote or similar organization software. It can do a lot of the same sorts of things (organize information into interlinked pages, etc.) and doesn't require a user to learn even the basic code that wikis require.
The idea is to use a wiki engine as an eformat instead of selling a pdf. I've been kicking this around for a few years now after noticing that SJGames rather extensive e only material is still formatted as print pages. They dead tree the major stuff but sell splatbooks as pdf only. It occurred to me that they're completely ignoring what you can do with an epub if you stop looking at it in terms of the printed page. Personally I hate pdf game books as a primary format - I can alwayss go to what I want faster in hardcopy in hand. They'te great secondarilly to be able to cut and paste difuse material but a pain in the ass to read when you have to scroll down a collumn that's too long to fit on a screen then scroll back up (and often over) to read the second column on the same page. If you're going to make a product intended to be used only (or even primarily) on a computer then make it in a format conducive to that usage. Better yet, make it in a format that takes as much advantage of the the computer's capabilities as possible. The product would require extensive internal cross linkage- but that's actually the point. The GM with the entire setting in front of hir can instantly crossreference any relevant info -
Bugger- accidentaly hit post. Willgive my thumbs a rest and ffinish once I'm in the office since I'm about to ttransfer to the streetcar
Quote from: Snargash MoonclawThe idea is to use a wiki engine as an eformat instead of selling a pdf.
This is a bad idea. The idea of marketing something that is optimized for being read electronically is a good idea, of course, but you'll want to look into the various e-reader formats out there, most of which are optimized for this kind of thing and certainly include the ability to hyperlink and whatever. A wiki engine is a ridiculous amount of overhead for what you're trying to do, and basically cuts you out of the tablet and e-reader market for no good reason.
Sparkle is right. My very spartan fantasy wiki is 96 MB right now. It is not graphic intensive and has only a few pages.
Wikis are wonderful for collaborative projects and for development, but as a product to sell, it requires a lot of things most people don't already have going on.
id recommend pb wiki as a good WYSIWYG wiki, and it prints as a PDF as a bonus, and is searchable (one of the reasons I use it).
but it ain't cheap no more
I'm thinking of something like Tiddlywiki or Zim desktop wiki - not built for collaboration and little overhead (no web hosting or the rest of that). I.e, the setting version on Obsidian portal is almot complete enough for a GM to run a campaign in and around Salis Freeport now. I'm wanting to put that on the GM's computer instead of a web host, with all it's hyperlinkage and more. The little personal wiki apps seem to be the way to go. Tiddlywiki runs in your browser and doesn't what browser or OS you're running. Perhaps other hypermedia apps will do this but I do want to avoid platform specific programs such as OneNote. I'm sure I can do this in Tiddly or Zim, I just don't know if either is the best choice or what others are out there. I'm also hoping to minimze editing after porting - copying pages from my CBG wiki to my wiki on OP requried a fair amount of edting since they have some different fomat/command structures.
I stand by my assertion that it's a bad idea. Even a "desktop wiki" is going to have a decent amount of overhead, because it's still an application. Computers probably won't complain, but lower-end tablets and smartphones might. Depending on how much Javascript it uses, some platforms might just refuse to run it; it seems Tiddlywiki won't run on a Kindle, for example. Since what you're providing is an application instead of just data, such incompatibilities become your problem, rather than using an existing e-book format where someone else is worrying about all that.
So what e-book format would you recommend that produces an interlinked, non-linear, easily navigable data array (which will run on Kindle as well as all the other proprietary devices that don't like to play well with each other)?
You'd need a different format for different readers. Depending on how you generate the ebooks, that could be very simple, or less so. Kindle can read .pdf, but it's primary format is .mobi. Most other readers use .epub. I'd think you could have internal hyperlinks in a .pdf. It would be non-linear in the sense that the user could navigate as desired, although one could, theoretically, just read straight through.