Lately, when I think about D&D and that sort of traditional style of game, there's a particular setting that grabs me. It's the setting from a computer RPG, and while I try to think of interesting ways to tweak and modify it, honestly, the interesting bits are already spread out before me. If I ever get around to running it, I'll probably just use it more or less as-is.
Steerpike wants to play 20Q to find out what game and setting I'm talking about, so here's the thread. You all know how this works. You get twenty yes-or-no questions, and you get to hear the answer for each before you ask the next.
For counting, please number your questions, and I'll number my answers, like this: [ic]Q1: are we posting in a thread?
A1: yes, we are posting in a thread.[/ic]
1. Is it a fantasy setting (ie - inspired by pre-modern tech/culture with magic)?
A1: Yes. A solid opening question.
Q2. Are demons present as an integral part of the setting?
A2: yes, demons are present. I guess they're integral? Not sure what that would mean.
Q3: Are some/all of the Standard Fantasy Races present?
You need to clarify that question.
Q4: What "terrain" is most of the game set in (that is, are the players in the city most of the time that the player has control of them, in a swamp, a forest, etc.) or if there is no main "terrain" what are the most prevalent terrains?
Quote from: Light Dragon
Q4: What "terrain" is most of the game set in (that is, are the players in the city most of the time that the player has control of them, in a swamp, a forest, etc.) or if there is no main "terrain" what are the most prevalent terrains?
Sounds like a good question, but they need to be yes-or-no questions unfortunately. You'd have to rephrase that.
I'm not counting "you need to ask that differently" as one of the 20 answers, so you're still asking Q3.
Does it have unique races (Besides elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs, etc?)
I figured he would rephrase it. Also, I would ask another type of question (focused around game mechanics) but I think we're asking about the setting and not "gamey-based questions", so I will stick to those.
Q3: Are the setting's magic casters called wizards?
Q4 Does your setting use divine magic?
Quote from: Love of AwesomeDoes it have unique races (Besides elves, dwarves, halflings, orcs, etc?)
A3: Yes.
Quote from: Light DragonAre the setting's magic casters called wizards?
A4: Yes, I'm pretty sure. (Edit: I checked, and no, they are
generally not, but they may get that label here and there.)
Quote from: Love of AwesomeQ4 Does your setting use divine magic?
A5: Yes.
Q6: Are angels or similar beings present in the setting as much as or more so than demons?
Q7: Was the first installmant of the series published in the 90s?
A6: no.
A7: probably? I'll check and get back to you.
Q8: Is the gameplay based primarily around control of a single character? Note that I would include things like Mass Effect here, where despite the presence of party members you basically control one character, but not things like Baldur's Gate, where despite one character representing "you," the player fully controls the entire party.
A8: No. (i.e., gameplay is not primarily based around control of a single character.)
Q9: Do you regularly control armies or other large groups of characters (10+).
A9: No.
Quote from: Steerpike
Q7: Was the first installmant of the series published in the 90s?
Okay, yes. I looked it up, and the first installment was from the 90s.
This is fun. Are you folks having fun? I'm having fun.
Q10: Do you equip various characters with magic items?
A10: Heck yeah you do.
Edit: Not totally sure what possibilities that question was meant to eliminate, but maybe there are plenty I'm just not thinking of.
Quote from: Lmns CrnThis is fun. Are you folks having fun? I'm having fun.
This is fun! I was half-convincing myself it might be
Heroes of Might & Magic, but with a "no" to the armies question that's definitely wrong.
So far we have a game whose first installmant was from the 90s, whose gameplay does not primarily involve a single character but doesn't involve armies (suggests a party), which has unique races, demons (angels not so much) and divine magic, and has a pre-modern fantasy setting. Magic-users aren't generally called Wizards. You definitely equip your characters with magic items.
I'm going to sneak in one more question and then I'll let others take a turn for awhile.
Q11: Is the publisher or developer Japanese?
A11: Nope, not a Japanese game.
Q12: Was the game a mainstream game? (E.g. was it at least as big a hit as Planescape: Torment or Arcanum as opposed to something that sold 50,000 copies or less.)
Not sure, but faairly certain it wasn't a big hit. Not charging you an answer for my guess, though-- you already know it's an obscure title from what I said the other day.
Not sure what game this is, but I was looking through some old RPGs on GOG, and this thread inspired me to buy Darklands. Holy crap this game is cool. I mean, ancient and impossibly arcane, but the detail is ridiculous. Like Daggerfall levels of detailed. Not only is there a 108 page manual (which you really have to read to play properly), there's a 121 page "Cluebook" designed "for beginning players."
I mean, it's insane and would never fly today, but a part of me wishes this sort of baroque, sort of hyper-ergodic design philosophy still existed.
I do love that sort of thing.
Quote from: SteerpikeI mean, it's insane and would never fly today, but a part of me wishes this sort of baroque, sort of hyper-ergodic design philosophy still existed.
Not to derail this thread too much, but I tend to be extremely skeptical of any sort of claim that "they don't make games like X any more."
What design philosophy exactly are you looking for? Games with lots of lore that you gradually discover? Games with intricate subsystems that can't be easily understood? Games that have
both and half the game is figuring out how to play the game in the first place? Or what?
Tagging back in...
Q12: Does the game feature turn-based combat?
A12: Yes.
Q13: Is the game by Spiderweb Software?
A13: Yes, indeed it is.
Q14: Is it one of the Avernum games?
A14: Yep. And that's the cool setting I want to swipe for D&D-style tabletop games. Avernum with the serial numbers filed off.
What version of Avernum have been playing?
Congratulations Llum.
I recall playing one of the Avernums as shareware around 97 or something... could someone here maybe explain the "deep storyline". I missed it at the time; it seemed sort of generically dull... and I also missed any "deep storyline" in the recent game I found regrettably disappointing- Divinity: Original Sin. (Note: Tone is missed online, my tone is intended to be quizzically wondering because my experience has been very different from how the games are "sold" and I wonder if I have been missing something or if others have a different idea of what a deep immersive game consists? The latter is up for debate regarding merits of gamestyles and could probably merit another thread; but the former is what I am at the moment wondering about.)
Divinity: Original Sin has great gameplay. However the boring allies and bland mercs were meh. But ya, the story was kinda ok but kinda meh,
I've been playing Avernum: Escape from the Pit, which I got on Steam a while back. It's one of the newer, rereleased versions of the older games. Honestly, I haven't played it in a couple of years, and I never finished the game, but the setting sort of grabbed me.
I don't think Avernum has a "deep storyline." Maybe it'd be looked at different in the context of the 90s? Frankly there are a lot of things about it that don't seem to have aged very well.
The part I really liked was the idea of a subterranean open world, with a hardscrabble civilization that never sees the light of the sun, founded by exiled criminals and political targets tossed into a pit by a corrupt Empire. I like the idea of running a semi-sandboxy game in a world like that-- players are all exiled for some sort of crime (maybe they're even guilty of it), and might work toward making a safe society underground for their fellow exiles, escaping back to the surface, getting revenge on the Empire that did this to them, all that stuff.
Assuming a taste for old school rpgs (Baldur's Gate, Morrowind, Arx Fatalis, Planescape: Torment, Ultima, Diablo 1, older stuff), is Avernum worth playing?
What I can recall of it, it's turn-based, rather combat-focused and very heavy on world exploration and resource management. Isometric view with simple graphics. I never finished the game because I got bored with the level grinding and couldn't figure out how to advance the plot at one point.
It's a very niche game with a weird interface. I'm not sure what to tell you. If it's a gem, it's certainly a flawed one.
For me, a big part of the draw was exploring all these underground caves and caverns and waterways that make up the landscape. There are lots of secret chambers and treasures and etc., and I found myself keeping a notebook on all the stuff I couldn't quite get to, so I could go back to it later. So if that sounds like your cup of tea, there you have it.
I got Avernum: Escape from the Pit last night, so far it's fun. But I do enjoy a lot of the things that Ghostman said about it.
Yeah, it's a great summary. I may go back and pick it up again some day.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI found myself keeping a notebook on all the stuff I couldn't quite get to, so I could go back to it later. So if that sounds like your cup of tea, there you have it.
Interesting. It might well be. One of my fondest gaming memories is playing
Riven as a kid and keeping a notebook open to map the islands, make notes on machines, and figure out things like how the D'ni numbers worked and what the different cryptic symbols all meant. This was in the age of dial-up internet (for my house anyway) when I pretty much only went online for school, so online help and hints weren't something I thought of (and would have seemed sacreligious anyway).
Quote from: Steerpike
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI found myself keeping a notebook on all the stuff I couldn't quite get to, so I could go back to it later. So if that sounds like your cup of tea, there you have it.
Interesting. It might well be. One of my fondest gaming memories is playing Riven as a kid and keeping a notebook open to map the islands, make notes on machines, and figure out things like how the D'ni numbers worked and what the different cryptic symbols all meant. This was in the age of dial-up internet (for my house anyway) when I pretty much only went online for school, so online help and hints weren't something I thought of (and would have seemed sacreligious anyway).
Oh man. I still have my old Myst journal somewhere I'm pretty sure. I even have one trying to map out the "sound maze" in Selenetic before I realized it was solved by following tones and not some byzantine layout. The sheer jubilance of solving a puzzle and having all that work pay off was just an unrivaled feeling when I was younger.
Have you played Syberia, Weave? If you like point & click adventure games and clockpunk puzzles a la Myst it and its sequel are worth playing.
Quote from: SteerpikeInteresting. It might well be. One of my fondest gaming memories is playing Riven as a kid and keeping a notebook open to map the islands, make notes on machines, and figure out things like how the D'ni numbers worked and what the different cryptic symbols all meant. This was in the age of dial-up internet (for my house anyway) when I pretty much only went online for school, so online help and hints weren't something I thought of (and would have seemed sacreligious anyway).
Why weren't you on when we were discussing Riven in chat weeks ago. We reached the conclusion that Riven is best.
Also, I still totally have my Myst/Riven notebook. I got some special edition of Myst back in the day and it came with a blank, bound journal that has my notes in it for the whole series. :detect:
Thank you for the explanations, Crayon and Llum.
If you liked exploring all the caverns, and chambers, a very old game you might enjoy is: Moraff's World. I am not entirely sure you can get it. Its graphics are Castle Wolfenstein 1 style. The game, however, was very good for its time with dungeon and overworld exploration and a wide variety of enemies and things to find.
Quote
The part I really liked was the idea of a subterranean open world, with a hardscrabble civilization that never sees the light of the sun, founded by exiled criminals and political targets tossed into a pit by a corrupt Empire. I like the idea of running a semi-sandboxy game in a world like that-- players are all exiled for some sort of crime (maybe they're even guilty of it), and might work toward making a safe society underground for their fellow exiles, escaping back to the surface, getting revenge on the Empire that did this to them, all that stuff.
Sounds a little like the Drow mixed with DarkSun.
Quote from: Steerpike
Have you played Syberia, Weave? If you like point & click adventure games and clockpunk puzzles a la Myst it and its sequel are worth playing.
I haven't played nor heard of Syberia. A lot of the other point & click adventure games I tried around that era fell somewhat short of the Myst series (maybe I was spoiled on them). I'll check out Syberia. Have you tried Crystal Key, Beyond Atlantis, or Schizm? There was another really old one I played about being on this alien desert planet with all these weird structures you could go into, but for the life of me I can't remember what it's called. It used to scare me because you could get locked into one of the buildings if you stayed too long and some freaky blue aliens would look at you from a window. The aforementioned 3 games were, IIRC, considerably harder than Myst/Riven, and I actually never beat either of them, but they were fun, atmospheric little romps.
Haven't played any of those. "Harder than Myst/Riven" sounds a bit terrifying.
Syberia (2002) is much more recent than Myst (1993) but it's a bit of a throwback. It owes a lot to the LucasArts adventure games as well - there are NPCs and stuff, not just you and the landscape, although for the most part you're alone, wandering lonely, painterly structures.
[spoiler=Syberia Images](http://lh3.ggpht.com/gI-RPo0Gam7wbsu6qFdvt8zGwVUf05qelukZwITojazr71-tI9mDJHioBmLrGGUR62w=h900)
(http://www.anuman-interactive.com/images/communique/435/syberia1-screen-mac14.jpg)
(http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dGOGFFuIckw/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://kronikum.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Syberia-III.jpg)[/spoiler]
I'm pretty Syberia got a sequel that got pretty good reviews as well. I have not played ether however.
Yeah, actually that last image is from Syberia 2. They're both great - well worth playing for puzzle/adventure game fans. You get quite invested in the protagonist, too. The first is more clockwork-oriented (you ride in a giant wind-up train), the second is more "stonepunk," almost.