The Campaign Builder's Guild

[ic=The Underdepths]The proud dark elven city of Torizzod, on the shores of the black waters of the Undersea, has stood for many centuries as a bastion both against incursions from ambitious surface-dwellers as well as to keep vile things from the deep at bay. Its merciless legions, led by a ruthless nobility, have pacified the surrounding lands and taken many slaves, but the city's leadership now grows stagnant and complacent, preferring to bask in its decadence. It is time for a new generation of heroes-- or what passes for them among the drow-- to rise.

The threats to the city are many, and found in all directions. Southward and below, the maw of the Great Jungle opens, a vast cavern full of intertwined roots, every kind of moss and fungi imaginable, lush greenery that sustains itself by the light of strange glowing rocks, and all types of carnivorous plants and beasts. This is a land that always hungers, yet, in recent times, its appetite seems particularly insatiable. Warrens of ambitious kobolds and hideouts of bloodthirsty orcs are numerous among its tangled and twisted passageways-- and it is rumored that the living god of the kobolds himself, a gargantuan draconic beast, lives at the bottom of one of the deepest, darkest pits here. Further down still, below the Great Jungle, lies the realm of Blackflame, where greenery gives way to igneous rock, boiling seas of lava scour the land, and any number of terrible beasts are said to dwell; at the bottom, it is rumored, lurks a dragon even more fiendish than the Kobold-God. To the east of Torizzod, along the sea coast, stands the Crypt of Phantoms, an ancient tower that once belonged to the surface, but has since sunk beneath the ground and become part of the Underdepths. It is a truly ancient and truly massive catacomb, built in a classic style unlike the modest buildings that the surface-dwellers now employ, and, indeed, different from drow architecture as well. Whoever built it is long gone, and it is perhaps just as well, considering the numerous undead horrors that lurk within. Fortunately, they have kept mostly to themselves, but signs are beginning to manifest that they are no longer content with being confined. And, of course, who knows what terrible things lurk beneath the dark waters of the Undersea itself? There are many rumors...

The battle for the Underdepths has only begun.
[/ic]

Characters and Information thread (http://www.thecbg.org/index.php/topic,210186.0.html)

Battle for the Underdepths will (hopefully) be a casual and episodic (and rather sandboxy) Pathfinder game, without any strict timetable, because that format has worked pretty well for other games I've been in, like Fimbulvinter. Basically, it's not going to be a big commitment for anyone. I'm not sure how good of a Pathfinder DM I'm going to be or how well this is going to work, anyway, so I'd rather not commit to anything big either!

20 point buy, starting at level 4. This should hopefully give everyone a chance to have a character that is a pretty good at stuff without the power level getting completely out of hand right at the beginning. Any more than it is already, I mean.

You will have around 4500 gp to spend on equipment and items. You are assumed to have your full WBL, but the other 1500 or so gp that you'd have is tied up in the fancy house that you live in, a business, or some other such thing in or around Torizzod. Since you are pretty well-off, don't worry about buying every minor thing you might need. Please write down on your character sheet what you own that is worth 1500 gp, also.

To avoid problems, I'd much prefer it if the initial group of player characters is a group that has already agreed to work together and has a good reason for doing so. This will also avoid the intraparty conflict that might otherwise break out if everyone is a nasty cutthroat. Perhaps the party is a band of mercenaries, or the members and retainers of a certain noble house. We'll figure out more once it's determined what kind of characters people want.

Drow (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-drow) is the default race for player characters, and I'd encourage drow characters.
However, the following other races might also be seen around, and are playable, with changes:

• Orcs (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc) - You're probably a mercenary of some repute. You're sharper than the average Orc; you have no mental stat penalties, just your +4 to Strength, and you have your choice of either Ironguts (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ironguts) or Ironhide (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/ironhide), even if you don't meet the prerequisites.
• Kobolds (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-kobold) - You could be a former slave or a tradesman who does work considered too "dirty" for the drow. You're quite a bit more sturdy than the average kobold; you get +2 Dexterity and +2 to any other stat of your choice instead of the usual kobold stats, and you also have the Draconic Aspect (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/draconic-aspect-kobold) feat.
• Tieflings (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-tiefling) - You're the spawn of a drow and something more demonic. No changes to their crunch.

I have kind of strong feelings about player empowerment and player character death and such things. I know I get a bit crazy, so please consider yourselves forewarned. :grin:

[ooc=House Rules I would like to use]

• For the sake of mechanics that rely on alignment, all player characters are chaotic evil. However, you can and should play your character however you like.
• The Underdepths are dark but everyone has darkvision, so for the most part I'm not going to pay much attention to illumination or visibility and describe things like it was fully lit. The darkness spell will provide concealment even against darkvision so that it can still be useful.
• HP is average, not rolled. Level 4 characters have 16 HP for a d6 class, 21 HP for a d8 class, 26 HP for a d10 class, or 31 HP for a d12 class.
• Everyone gets a bonus feat at level 1, like you were a human. Except you're not, so you get to be more awesome.
• Everyone gets one free weapon proficiency of any type. This is probably whips or elven curve blades, but firearms are also acceptable, as long as you can figure out how you got a gun.
• "Improved" combat maneuvers have no prerequisites. "Greater" combat maneuvers have their Improved maneuver as a prerequisite, plus whatever BAB requirement they normally have.
• Dodge includes Mobility. In addition, the +4 dodge bonus granted by Mobility applies to any AoO provoked by performing combat maneuvers without the "Improved" feat.
• Precise Shot includes Point-Blank Shot and Far Shot.
• Rapid Shot includes Rapid Reload. Its only prerequisite is now Precise Shot.
• Improved Unarmed Strike also increases the unarmed strike's damage to 1d6 and allows you to make two-handed unarmed strikes for the usual 1.5x strength bonus.
• Expanded Arcana allows you to change your spell choices at every level, including learning spells you couldn't cast at the time you took the feat.
• If you have taken the Drow Nobility feat, you can choose to have +2 Intelligence or +2 Wisdom instead of +2 Charisma.
• Any feat that lets requires you to specify a type of weapon (e.g., Weapon Focus) can be changed by spending a day of downtime training with a new weapon.
• Drow and Tieflings can have different SLAs than the defaults, as long as they're thematic, of an equal spell level, aren't obnoxious, and don't break the game. Here are some suggestions but feel free to ask about others if you'd like:
  
  
  • Level 0: arcane mark, dancing lights, detect poison, mage hand, purify food and drink, putrefy food and drink
  • Level 1: blend, charm person, color spray, divine favor, faerie fire, feather fall
  • Level 2: blur, darkness, glitterdust, levitate, twilight haze, whip of spiders
  You get to choose whether to base save DCs from your SLAs on your Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma.

• Content from Path of War (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/path-of-war) is available so that martial characters can have nice things.
• New feat: [ic=Magical Synergy]
  Prerequisites: Able to use racial spell-like abilities, able to cast spells.
  Benefit: You possess the powers inherent to your race, but other esoteric abilities flow in your blood as well. Through concentration, mediation, and willpower, you have learned how to make them work together.
  Your cantrip-level spell-like abilities are now usable at will. As a swift action, you may sacrifice one spell slot of an equivalent level or higher in order to restore a daily use of any spell-like ability you have.
  In addition, your spell-like abilities count as spells known.
  [/ic]

[/ooc]

Recommended Classes
Alchemist: You study arcane mysteries, but you do so using methods far more scientific than some scatterbrained wizard, brewing concoctions that are filled with arcane power.
Antipaladin: You take up a dark banner and even darker sword in the name of the Abyssal gods, above all, the Great Spider-Queen herself. That which you do not merely crush under your boot, you enslave and make serve your own goals.
Arcanist: You have a trace of the arcane blood of a sorcerer, but it would ordinarily be too weak to manifest any real power. You do not believe in weakness; you have studied your craft like a wizard, honing your diluted blood into power just the same.
Bard: You carry yourself with grace, sophistication, and flair, possessing skill in numerous arts, be they martial, magical, or, musical. Your haunting song of battle is often the last thing your foes hear in this world.
Bloodrager: The pure hatred of the Abyss itself has touched your heart and turned it black. Even for a drow, your raw cruelty is something terrible-- and wonderful-- to behold.
Cleric: You are a loyal servant of a demonic god, at least as far as a drow can be a loyal servant of anything-- in other words, you are a willing servant as long as your demonic patron continues to grant you hideous otherworldly powers. Call it a business arrangement.
Magus: Some believe the sword is the surest way to true power, others put their trust in the black arts. Why can you not master both? Would that not be the surest way to ensure dominance, no matter what comes?
Oracle: Your birth was an ill omen, tainted by demons. All sorts of black magic surges through you, along with a demonic curse straight from the bowels of the Abyss itself.
Sorcerer: Every drow worth anything has blood that surges with magical power, but yours is particularly strong. Your eyes have a faint red glow nearly all the time, and people tend to give you a wide berth. Those who do not fear you will learn to, the hard way.
Stalker: The surest way to survive is to never even be seen. You hide in the shadows, slay your target with brutal grace (or is it graceful brutality?) and then disappear back into the shadows.
Summoner: You have a particularly close bond with the Abyss, and have enslaved a creature from its depths. You can also call upon other Abyssal horrors in a more limited fashion. Why do anything yourself with an army of pawns at your disposal?
Warder: You fearlessly protect your house from its enemies, wherever they may lurk. You excel at defense, but also know that often the best defense is a good offense.
Warlord: You are a warrior, but you are no mere common sword-swinger. You command the battlefield with your strength and gravitas, cutting down any foe that so much as dares to look you in the eye.
Warpriest: You have the same basic agenda as a cleric, but are better at killing things. Considering the kind of religious practices that are common among the drow, this is a useful talent to have.
Witch: In forgotten streets and back alleys between the towers of more academic mages and the temples of faithful priestesses, a powerful but misunderstood folk arcane tradition has developed; it is from this that you have derived your power.
Wizard: Rather than waste time on the usual petty plotting and scheming of the drow, you locked yourself away in a tower and studied old books, mastering their arcane mysteries. With the power you gained, you can now engage in plotting and scheming on a far grander scale.

Please post if interested, or with other comments, suggestions, and whatever.

Count me in! Assuming my schedule allows that to happen, of course, but I'll be making a character! :)

Terrific premise! I'd probably go with a Drow Necromancer, or maybe a Tiefling.

Actually, question: might Dhampir (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-dhampir) be a valid race? Not that the Race Points are a particularly accurate gauge, but they have fewer Race Points than a Drow. In D&D Vampirism is the "Kiss of Lolth" and seen as a blessing. Might it be the same in Torrizod?

I'm very intrigued about those house-rules. I respect your crunch insights (despite my occasional grumbling) and am curious to see how those play out.

Definitely interested. Would probably play some kind of divine caster, just for a change from the martial characters I have played in CE and Fimbulvinter.
Will you be following the typical ultra-matriarchal ultra-rigid ultra-backstabby model for Drow society?
I like the idea of my character being an underling of another PC, any volunteers to be my boss? :)

It'd be fun to play if it's not going to be too late for my timezone. I'd probably go for a tiefling PC. This being a dark elf game, it might be a good idea to call for an OOC agreement to limit inter-party conflict, since that kind of thing would stem naturally from a group made up entirely or mostly of treacherous cutthroats.

Quote from: SteerpikeActually, question: might Dhampir (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-dhampir) be a valid race? Not that the Race Points are as particularly accurate gauge, but they have fewer Race Points than a Drow. In D&D Vampirism is the "Kiss of Lolth" and seen as a blessing. Might it be the same in Torrizod?

A Dhampir could work, though it would be half-drow and not half-human, of course. I would probably fluff it as you having some sort of connection to the Crypt of Phantoms, if you're ok with that.

Quote from: SteerpikeI'm very intrigued about those house-rules. I respect your crunch insights (despite my occasional grumbling) and am curious to see how those play out.

Thanks! Me too!

Quote from: KindlingWill you be following the typical ultra-matriarchal ultra-rigid ultra-backstabby model for Drow society?

Definitely! However, it won't be too much of a burden on player characters, because they are of course supposed to be exceptional. In other words, you can feel free to play a male who somewhat defies conventions if you'd like, and you don't have to worry that I'm constantly going to punish you for doing so.

Quote from: GhostmanThis being a dark elf game, it might be a good idea to call for an OOC agreement to limit inter-party conflict

I completely agree. I'll add this to the initial post in the part about how I'd prefer if the party was able to work together.

Yeah, I'd be fine with a Crypt of the Phantoms connection, not that I'm absolutely intent on playing a Dhampir.

I'm probably gonna go for Ascetic-archetype (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/cleric/archetypes/kobold-press/ascetic) Cleric of Kiaransalee, the Drow goddess of vengeance and undeath. After a little light googling, it seems that in some places her worshippers are described as operating in secret from mainstream Drow society, either individually or in small cells, and in others as being an open rival to the church of Lolth that has recently won over a significant portion of the Drow population. I don't know which of these is canon (or maybe if both are at different times and in different places) but unless you have strong feelings about the place of Kiaransalee's cult in Torizzod I would lean towards my character at least being able to openly declare her religion.

I would like to mention, this is the Underdepths, not the Underdark, so canonical Underdark things don't necessarily exist-- this is not to restrict anyone but mainly because I'm lazy and don't know much about the actual Underdark setting and don't want to have to be consistent with a canon. However, part of the advantage to being so open-ended is that we're able to do what works best for the group at the time, so it's perfectly fine for us to say that in Torizzod the drow are less aggressively henotheistic as they might be in other places, and the Great Spider-Queen (i.e., Lolth with the serial numbers filed off) is not the only deity worshiped. It all fits together rather nicely, because I'd already envisioned a cult associated with the Crypt of Phantoms, so your character could certainly be a member. So I like the fluff a lot.

Crunch-wise, however, I'd really rather not use that archetype. I'm all for powerful characters, and I hope the way I've set up the game demonstrates that, but it just seems a little... overkill. To contrast, a transmutation or wood Wizard gets +1 to a stat (+2 starting at level 5) and has to give up other school powers to get it, and it's widely regarded as a very strong school choice. On the other hand, that Cleric gets a much bigger bonus and better spontaneous casting and still gets domains-- it just seems like too much of a CoDzilla.

Oh cool! I presume I could come up with my own rough idea for a death-goddess that isn't Kiaransalee then? That would be even better, I was just searching for an existing Drow death-deity to use, I'm really not that well-versed in Underdark lore myself.

As for the Ascetic, that's fine. I haven't played Pathfinder except for Fimbulvinter, and I just thought it might be fun to try out an archetype just to explore the possibilities, but I'd be very happy with a vanilla Cleric as well! I don't have much to do for the rest of today except make a meal at some point, so I might even start to make my character now :)

I'm strongly leaning towards playing an orcish antipaladin after I found out that they don't suffer any mental penalties, since I love playing fanatic characters. Tiefling (potentially half-orc instead of half-drow) was also a strong contender for obvious reasons, but it seemed like a popular choice and I don't want to flood the party with half-fiends.

Quote from: KindlingI presume I could come up with my own rough idea for a death-goddess that isn't Kiaransalee then?

Go for it!

Quote from: Superbright
I'm strongly leaning towards playing an orcish antipaladin after I found out that they don't suffer any mental penalties, since I love playing fanatic characters. Tiefling (potentially half-orc instead of half-drow) was also a strong contender for obvious reasons, but it seemed like a popular choice and I don't want to flood the party with half-fiends.

I like it-- maybe your orc could even be a member of the same death-cult as Kindling's character?

By the way, on the issue of tieflings or any other race, while I had originally envisioned a drow game, if the party ends up being mostly non-drow, I can work with that. Their struggle to integrate themselves into the rather xenophobic and quote class-conscious drow society of Torizzod would make for interesting adventuring opportunities in its own right.

If non-drow characters end up outnumbering the drow, I could just as easily play some sort of dark elf character.

I'm still playing a Drow, but have you considered allowing Duergar characters?

Also I noticed that Rogue is not included on the recommended class list. Is this intentional? I would have thought Rogue would be a pretty good class for this sort of game.

I'm currently leaning towards a Drow Sorcerer with the Undead bloodline, with Lichdom as a likely long-term goal.

I will say that of the various characters I'm considering, all of them are Drow. Still trying to narrow my list - I kinda have one of each class.

I'm strongly interested in this game, even though I don't know Pathfinder, and I'm a little uncertain as to how the timeframe is going to work. But if it's a sort of "show up when you can" style of thing, I'd like to give it a try.

I'll play a drow, of course. When in Rome, and all that. (Does it rhyme with "how" or "know"?) Maybe a non-caster, since it looks like a lot of the group is going for some type of magic.

I'm somewhat interested, not sure I can commit, though. I have some time Tuesday-Wednesday-Thursday in the evenings now (Pacific time)

Quote from: SteerpikeI'm still playing a Drow, but have you considered allowing Duergar characters?

I felt like they'd just be in too much opposition with the drow, and I couldn't think of a worthwhile way to buff them up to the power level of the other PCs without losing some of their flavor.

Quote from: SteerpikeAlso I noticed that Rogue is not included on the recommended class list. Is this intentional? I would have thought Rogue would be a pretty good class for this sort of game.

I left Rogue off mostly because I left off every purely martial class that wasn't from Paths of War-- the martial/caster disparity isn't likely to be a huge problem given that it's only level 4 and many characters getting SLAs, but I wasn't really eager to recommend them. That's not to say you can't play a Rogue! Although mechanics-wise I'd recommend a reflavored Ninja instead.

Quote from: SteerpikeI'm currently leaning towards a Drow Sorcerer with the Undead bloodline, with Lichdom as a likely long-term goal.

Nice concept.
I'm seeing a certain death and undeath theme forming here. Perhaps that might be an early unifying goal for the party?
I will try to prepare a bit in all directions so as not to be caught off guard, but if this theme holds and the characters are willing, it's looking like the Crypt of Phantoms may be a worthwhile adventuring target to start off.

Quote from: Lmns CrnBut if it's a sort of "show up when you can" style of thing, I'd like to give it a try.

Quote from: Seraflumphnot sure I can commit, though

It is definitely designed to be casual and to not expect a huge commitment.

Timewise, the best times for me these days are afternoon (Central time) and weekends. This would probably push it to earlier in the afternoon Pacific time, so I'm not 100% sure how well that'd work out if you're only free in the evenings. Once things come together a bit more and I'm more sure of when I'll be available I'll try to get a Doodle up.

5:30 or so is the earliest I can go.  I like the idea, I'm afraid if you need to go earlier, I can't make it.

For Rogue I was thinking more as a multiclass option or as a gateway to the Assassin Prestige Class, but Ninja probably makes as much/more sense there, actually.

That makes sense for Duergar. If you did want to buff them I'd just add one of the Dwarf racial abilities or give them an extra Racial Trait from the Alternate Racial Traits list, but blood emnity vs. Drow makes them an unlikely PC race.

On the subject of enemies: I assume that in classic Drow fashion Torrizod runs on slave labour. What kind of people are enslaved? You mention Kobolds. Would surface-dwellers be here too? Grimlocks, Goblins, Troglodytes...?

Quote from: sparkletwistI'm seeing a certain death and undeath theme forming here. Perhaps that might be an early unifying goal for the party?
I will try to prepare a bit in all directions so as not to be caught off guard, but if this theme holds and the characters are willing, it's looking like the Crypt of Phantoms may be a worthwhile adventuring target to start off.

I was noticing this too. Maybe we're all members of some kind of Death-related cult/society in Torrizod? Or at least some of us are and the other PCs are mercenaries or something.

EDIT: Another question, touching on the "we're cool with slavery, right?" aspect of things. We're all "Evil" here - how dark are you picturing this? I can get carried away, so it'd be good to know if the campaign has any kind of parameters around that sort of thing, beyond common-sense stuff. For example, can we purchase slaves (they're in the Pathfinder equipment list) with our starting wealth?

Minor correction: It's Torizzod.
Nothing says "drow" like a double z in a word, at least to me. :grin:

The drow just wouldn't be the drow without slavery, so I'm assuming that there are more than a few slaves about. I think goblins and kobolds would be the most numerous slaves, if only because it's easier to play a "cool with slavery" character with our modern sensibilities when most of the slaves act like they deserve it 90% of the time anyway.

On that note, I expect that things may get a bit dark, although I was planning on more of a "dungeonpunk" feel rather than being oppressively grimdark and bleak. The tone you set in Underdeep is not a bad reference, now that I think about it. You can certainly purchase slaves, although I'd expect that if you own a house or whatever you'd own some already.

Heh, thanks! Drow names have so many double letters I get them mixed up.

That's good to know on the tone - that's basically what I figured. A little sadism, I hope, won't go amiss so long as it's not totally tasteless. I think my character will probably be the inverse of Kindling's: not an ascetic but an aesthete and a hedonist who sees Undeath as a means of extending life's black pleasures. Think, like, Cenobites from Hellraiser...

EDIT: Might actually go Gravewalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo---witch-archetypes/gravewalker) (Witch archetype). They can get a little zombie-herd quite early on and have access to Animate Dead 2 levels before a Sorcerer. sparkletwist, how do you interpret Bonethrall and Animate Dead as interacting? Bonethrall grants control of 1HD of Undead per caster level. Animate Dead grants control of up to 4HD of Undead per caster level. I'd be inclined to say that the two "pools" of control don't interact (more zombies is always better), but I'll defer to your judgment here...

I'm not very familiar with the Path of War stuff, but it looks awesome.  I really like the Black Seraph discipline and if I participate, I think I'd like to go in that direction.  What would be your suggestion, since the three classes mentioned don't quite seem to fit the flavor of the Black Seraph, who feeds on pain and fear? 

Would Stalker or Soul Hunter (one of its archetypes) not fit the Black Seraph Discipline?

I notice also that Black Seraph is only available to those who join the Black Thorn Knights, so they'd need some kind of equivalent in Torizzod, unless sparkletwist houseruled it.

Quote from: SteerpikeI'd be inclined to say that the two "pools" of control don't interact

I'd be inclined to agree.
I remember reading somewhere that the pool of undead controlled by a negative energy Cleric's Command Undead ability is distinct from the pool that can be created via animate dead. I see no reason why the Bonethrall ability shouldn't work the same way, since it's written up similarly.

Quote from: SeraflumphWhat would be your suggestion, since the three classes mentioned don't quite seem to fit the flavor of the Black Seraph, who feeds on pain and fear?

As Steerpike has pointed out, the "official" way to learn Black Seraph is to be a member of the Black Thorn Knights martial tradition, and I think any of the classes is able to do that, but it has a strong bias towards lawfulness, and the Warder is the most lawful character, so, from that, the Warder probably "works best." However, I don't really want to use martial traditions in this game in general, and the ultra-lawful Black Thorn Knights would especially not fit in Torizzod at all, at least as a player character faction.

So I'd say you could simply swap out one of your disciplines for Black Seraph, and, ignoring all that fluff, any class would work pretty well-- Steerpike's suggestions of a Stalker work pretty well.

We're calculating HP randomly, right?

I didn't at first, but looking closer at it, especially the two archetypes, I am liking the stalker.  I am thinking a sort of monastic hunter-killer; perhaps operating on behalf of the cult that people are talking about.  Soul Hunter Archetype.  I am happy with him being Drow.

 :huh:
And here I thought you knew me! :grin:

No, HP is average. 16 HP for a d6 class, 21 HP for a d8 class, 26 HP for a d10 class, and 31 HP for a d12 class.
(If you're multiclassing, you can figure it out yourself. :P )

Heh, I thought it was curious you didn't have a rule for it (knowing your dislike of randomness for stat generation) - I must've missed it.

Trying to decide between about 3 characters right now, because I'm horribly indecisive and keep changing my mind, but just saying I'm still interested in playing...although I doubt I'll be able to often because of the planned times.

I'm very much leaning toward a Tiefling Magus now. Are we free to purchase magical items and/or spells as starting equipment?

Quote from: GhostmanAre we free to purchase magical items and/or spells as starting equipment?

Yes. While such things aren't likely to be generally available, you're assumed to have enough clout, have gone on past adventures, or whatever, that you could've obtained whatever.

Kind of tempted to make an Orc Warpriest of the One-Eyed God (leaning far more heavily on Balor and the Greek Cyclopes than on Gruumsh for inspiration, though) who pursues destruction and ruin and so gets along with death/undeath cults just fine.

What exactly is the difference between an antipaladin and a warpriest? It's a class I'm not really familiar with.

Also, just to clarify before I post her, do we add bonus HP from Constitution and favored class onto the existing average?

The antipaladin (as I understand it) is largely based around the Smite Good ability and using various Auras/Cruelties to weaken and incapacitate their opponents. The warpriest gets Weapon Focus as a free feat and has the ability to enhance their weapons and armour with divine power. Both of them get the ability to channel energy like a cleric, and both of them get a limited times-per-day negative energy touch attack. Their save progressions are the same, but the antipaladin gets better HD and a slightly better BAB progression. The warpriest has access to more class skills, and gets spells earlier.

Would love to throw my hat in the ring with one of the fellows below. My availability is spotty, but I'd be excited to give this a go, especially since an IRL drow game *nearly* started and then didn't.

1) A drow stalker [soul hunter], who is respected as a guide, messenger and discreet assassin and among both the mercantile drow and in the sundry fortresses and nests of monsters and humanoids lairing just beyond. His night terrors are filled with an ethereal song - daring the Crypt cannot be put off forever.

2) A drow arcanist [occultist] with a cathexis for lizardly matters, who seeks to one day summon forth a judgement appropriate for the decadent wealthy and heretics of Torizzod. Will she one day feast of the divine, squamous flesh of the depths?

Do warpriests, at least for roleplaying purposes, have their balls shackled to the will of a single god in the same way that clerics do?

They do, yeah. Down to requirements that their alignment be reasonably close to that of their patron god.

Quote from: Superbrightdo we add bonus HP from Constitution and favored class onto the existing average?

Yes, the average is simply what your hit dice would've rolled. For example, 16 HP from a d6 at level 4 is because 6 + 3 + 4 + 3 = 16. So any other bonuses go on top of that.

Quote from: TangentialWould love to throw my hat in the ring with one of the fellows below.

I'm a bit biased towards the first because it fits the whole death/undeath theme the developing party seems to have, and I'd rather like to see a Path of War class in action, but they both sound pretty cool.

Quote from: Tangential
Would love to throw my hat in the ring with one of the fellows below. My availability is spotty, but I'd be excited to give this a go, especially since an IRL drow game *nearly* started and then didn't.

1) A drow stalker [soul hunter], who is respected as a guide, messenger and discreet assassin and among both the mercantile drow and in the sundry fortresses and nests of monsters and humanoids lairing just beyond. His night terrors are filled with an ethereal song - daring the Crypt cannot be put off forever.

If I expected to actually be able to play very much, I might feel cross at you honing in on my character concept, but it probably won't matter.  The character concepts are very different, despite the same class and archetype.  And maybe it would result more in complementing each other if we both do play, rather than competing (although competing and backstabbing aren't out-of-place in a drow game.

I read nothing but the first post. /blush

This dynamic requires more consideration, though I am happy to switch up or 'compete' at your will.

Edit Now I have read the thread, I'll gladly resign from soul hunter, as it was only one of my ideas; Steerpike and you and I are great minds it seems. The fluff can be re-situated for use as NPC, if desired.

I'll most likely put together that arcanist, but a few conceptual considerations are still needed. Thanks for the input, Seraflumph.

Edit 2 Having decided toward the arcanist, but that the summoning focused archetype might prove boggy - thus am exploring simpler ones.

A question regarding maneuvers and disciplines: The disciplines seem to refer to certain weapon groups as "associated weapons" but nowhere does it say that the maneuvers must be performed with those weapons.  Would you say that they can be used with other weapons?

Also, regarding the 20 point buy for stats:
Does that assume the price table on the d20pfsrd, where buying a score of 18 (an increase of 8 from base 0) costs 17 points, or that 1 point equals one point?  Or something else?

One More Thing:
Is there any kind of special Spider Silk armor available?  It's a very "drow" thing, but I couldn't find anything that seemed right in the Special Materials.  Actually the equivalent of a Mithral Shirt is what I'm looking for.  If it's alright, I'll just reskin that with different fluff. 

Quote from: SeraflumphThe disciplines seem to refer to certain weapon groups as "associated weapons" but nowhere does it say that the maneuvers must be performed with those weapons.  Would you say that they can be used with other weapons?

Some do. For example, Solar Wind only works with its associated weapon groups. Others, like Iron Tortoise, don't explicitly say that you have to, but the weapons in its groups usually make the most sense. For the most part, you can use whatever weapons you want, though.

Quote from: SeraflumphDoes that assume the price table on the d20pfsrd, where buying a score of 18 (an increase of 8 from base 0) costs 17 points, or that 1 point equals one point?

The standard SRD point buy prices. Here's a handy tool to help calculate (http://tools.digitalightbulb.com/pbcalc.html).

Quote from: SeraflumphIs there any kind of special Spider Silk armor available?  It's a very "drow" thing, but I couldn't find anything that seemed right in the Special Materials.  Actually the equivalent of a Mithral Shirt is what I'm looking for.  If it's alright, I'll just reskin that with different fluff.

Well, there's "Silkweave" but that doesn't actually do a lot, so, yeah, reskinning mithral seems like the best idea.

Edit:
I've also clarified the rules for spending gp and slightly increased the starting allowance of money you can spend. Characters can buy starting equipment, magic items, and whatever with 4500 gp. They also own something valuable worth 1500 gp, like a home or business or whatever-- please specify what this is. It's something that marks you''ve got a fairly prominent place in Torizzod society, and is a symbol of wealth, but isn't easy to transport or sell.

According to my calculation I spent a total of 3692 gp on my listed equipment. I thought that was within the original limit of how much could be spent?

It was.
I didn't raise the limit because of anything you did. :) Actually, if I'm going to point fingers, I'd blame Kindling :P

I thought I had spent under 4k... the 1410gp listed on the character sheet was what was leftover from the 4k, assuming that the further 2k was invested in a dwelling or something. Have I made a terrible mistake with pricing something?

Quote from: KindlingI thought I had spent under 4k... the 1410gp listed on the character sheet was what was leftover from the 4k, assuming that the further 2k was invested in a dwelling or something. Have I made a terrible mistake with pricing something?

That was my initial thought, too, but then I noticed you had both a +1 sword and a +1 bow, which by themselves would add up to 4000, so I thought maybe you did it the other way.

So now I'm just confused, I guess. :)

Ok, the way I read it a +1 weapon was the cost of the normal weapon plus 1000... I am obviously wrong. I will re-read and adjust my equipment accordingly :)

EDIT Ha, how I missed that chart on the "magic weapons" page with the prices clearly stated, I have no idea! Lol.

Ok, thanks.

For simplicity and since magic gear is fun I'll still keep it at 4500 gp spendable on stuff, so go ahead and buy a little more if you want to. ;)
Also please note what exactly it is that you own that's worth 1500 gp-- you don't have to go into specific detail, something like "a house" or "a shop" is enough for now.

I tweaked Malagaun's stats a little, reducing his wisdom and increasing his charisma. His flaws are more being weak-willed (easily given to various temptations) and letting his inflated ego color his judgment, than being antisocial or rude. Also picked some property in Torizzod :)

Gah!  I had almost finished my character post in the other thread when I got locked out of my apartment.  Now that I am back in front of my computer, I see that it restarted and erased all the editing work!  NOOOOO....

:(

Well, there's no rush! I'm not even sure when it's going to start, and the first session is probably going to be earlier in the day when you couldn't make it anyway (at least, that's when I've got the most availability right now, so the available times will be biased towards that) so don't worry.

Zzlangcor of House Tzril'mul, a Drow Arcanist [Twlight Sage] will be presetable by Wednesday.

Where are we standing, as far as potential first play time?

I'm not 100% sure yet, as I'm still preparing, but as soon as we've got a quorum of possible characters-- let's say four-- then I'll start trying to schedule something. It's likely to be at some point in the afternoon US central time, though I'll try to be flexible due to differing player availability.

Edit: New house rule added.
[ooc=Improved Unarmed Strike]
Improved Unarmed Strike also increases the unarmed strike's damage to 1d6 and allows you to make two-handed unarmed strikes for the usual 1.5x strength bonus.
[/ooc]

After our IRC discussion, I'm 90% decided on playing a Warder from Path of War, and will have my character up at some point over the next couple of days. Still very much looking forward to this. :)

After talking a bit on IRC with Steerpike, Ghostman, and Xathan, I am getting the feeling this game is going to lean more towards larger set-piece battles on roll20. It is the Battle for the Underdepths, after all. I'm actually pleased with this, as the ability to have crunchy tactical combats is one big reason I wanted to play Pathfinder instead of Fate or some system I generally prefer more. I just want to make sure everyone's ok with this!

Anyway, let's do this. Here's a Doodle! (http://doodle.com/twzaigahg76ivn9s) I'll add more days/times later on if nothing works out.
All times are US CDT. Convert time zones here (http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html).

I am totally down for massive wars and would hope that in addition to combats with lots of complex characters on the board, we'd also explore the mass combat rules / advice from Ultimate Campaign/ Kingmaker AP. I've very conversant with the ship combat rules from the Skull & Shackles AP, and would if the campaign were to have some set-piece conflicts on the Undersea that used them, I would be extra enthused.

I have signed up on the doodle - and since its CST, no time zone worries for me this time. :P

I'd like to handle XP in the following way.

After each session, all players will PM me the amount of XP they think they should get. I'll average them together, along with my own vote, which would be what I'd give you if I were solely in charge of XP-- it will be roughly equal to the amount of XP you'd receive by RAW. That average will be the XP that everyone gets.

If this ends up being too avant garde or bizarre we can drop it.

Quote from: sparkletwist
I'd like to handle XP in the following way.

After each session, all players will PM me the amount of XP they think they should get. I'll average them together, along with my own vote, which would be what I'd give you if I were solely in charge of XP-- it will be roughly equal to the amount of XP you'd receive by RAW. That average will be the XP that everyone gets.

If this ends up being too avant garde or bizarre we can drop it.

I'm assuming votes that we should get 1,000,000 xp per session will be discarded as clearly ludicrous? :P

And I think that sounds interesting, so I'm down for that. How will xp be handled for people That miss a week?

I doodled. A combat focus to the game is fine by me, and the idea of lots of big epic battles seems like a fun one!

There's a lovely solid vertical column of green at Tuesday, April 7th, at 1:00 pm CDT, so that will be our first game.

I thought I should make clear a few of the expectations and preconceptions I had, because "I know I get a bit crazy" is a valid warning but not exactly specific.
So here are some more specific thoughts to make sure we're all on the same page.

• It isn't overtly E6/E8/E-whatever, but it's designed around level 10 or so being something of a soft cap for advancement. Most of the "big deal" monsters I've envisioned are around CR 12.
• Spells like raise dead are extremely uncommon and are plot points more than anything else. However, player character death will not happen without the player's consent.
• Your characters are definitely the product drow society, but there's something redeeming about each one. Nobody is just a sociopathic murder machine, at least no more than any other D&D character.
• Relatedly, the party should be able to work together and be a functional unit (so we can actually have a game) even if there's a lot of flavorful arguing and backstabbing in character.

Of course, feel free to post any questions and objections.

Just letting everyone know that, from discussions with Sparkletwist, I'm scrapping the Occultist to go with a Master Summoner, because of the switch to a more war-game style. (Yes, I built a class for this game and am not going to play it. Yes, I am as about as indecisive as a player can get. :P )

We, as a group, so probably talk about how our characters know each other once everone has back stories posted, since Sparkletwist did ask us to have that. Given that pretty much everyone is a caster of some kind, first thought that comes to mind - maybe we all went to "college" together?

There are also quite a few noble characters. Some or all of the families all being allied and/or intermarried would be completely reasonable, too. Morwen is something of a black sheep but I assume she'd at least be familiar with the allies of her house, from boring social functions they made her attend before she went out on her own.

Relatively soon I'll try to post a plot hook that serves as the "you all meet in a tavern" for this game, so the group has some cause to be together at the beginning.

I'm getting a kind of "cabal" vibe from the group - not like a formal guild or cult  but more like the Hellfire Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club) or the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn) with a bit less hierarchy.

Quote from: Steerpike
I'm getting a kind of "cabal" vibe from the group - not like a formal guild or cult  but more like the Hellfire Club (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_Club) or the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermetic_Order_of_the_Golden_Dawn) with a bit less hierarchy.

I love the idea of it being that sort of arrangement. An elitist club that believes it knows what's best for Tezzorid kind of thing? The sort of deal I could see young Drow nobles getting into all the time.

If we do go that route, I know what my 1500 non-liquid assets are going towards: our meeting place.

Quote from: XathanTezzorid

:huh:

I really like that idea, too. It seems very drow, and there are countless hooks for them to get into trouble.

It could be political, or more magical/occult, though in Torizzod those two probably intersect a lot.

Quote from: sparkletwist

Quote from: XathanTezzorid

:huh:

I was on my phone and took a wild guess. :P

QuoteI really like that idea, too. It seems very drow, and there are countless hooks for them to get into trouble.

I think it fits the characters so far perfectly. I'm so tempted to spend extra gold on hirelings and lavishness  for this place.

Quote from: Steerpike
It could be political, or more magical/occult, though in Torizzod those two probably intersect a lot.

I think they totally would, given how Drow usually are.

Based on the discussion about this, I posted my character's backstory and built in the Emberfall Cabal, a sufficiently vaguely defined group that, if people were interested, could serve as a common contact point for all of us and allow for plot hooks and whatnot.

EDIT: And if the slaves and inn and manor sound like it's quite a bit for one character, I'm also planning on investing 3000-5000 of my starting gold back into this place to make it a thing.  :grin:

And for whatever it's worth, the DM enthusiastically supports this idea as it's great for party unity and being able to give you adventure hooks. :grin:

I added some general information about Torizzod (http://www.thecbg.org/index.php/topic,210186.html), to help flesh out character backgrounds and just to get a feel for the place.

Great writeup! Very evocative and informative. Inevitable questions:

Is there crime in Torizzod? Of what sorts? Organized?

Is there a formal police force/militia?/secret police? There's a mention of guards, but these could just be household troops of the noble houses.

Is there a formal governmental structure, like a council of nobles?

Is this a big city by drow standards?

Obviously the whole city is underground but is there much of an "undercity" - sewers, catacombs, etc?

Very roughly speaking, how far down are we? Like, is the surface just above our heads or are there miles of rock between us and the sun?

A more general question: do Mindflayers exist in this world?

Quote from: SteerpikeIs there crime in Torizzod? Of what sorts? Organized?
Is there a formal governmental structure, like a council of nobles?

In true drow fashion, there is really no distinction between the city's government and the city's organized crime-- although it wouldn't always be thought of as crime, given that it's not actually illegal. To the noble families, it's all just business interests, after all. As for petty street crime, the noble quarter and the wealthy shopping districts around that are quite safe, as are the main thoroughfares, but the back alleys and side streets are another matter entirely. The city's official government is a council of eight nobles called the Octet. The Houses of Sevrezar, Tthiki and Unghûl have permanent seats, and the other five seats are chosen via election among all of the nobility. Naturally, this leads to much scheming and jockeying: various upstarts try to get on the Octet, those with seats try to preserve them, the three permanent members try to get members elected who will vote with them, and so on. If this all doesn't seem like the most efficient or effective system of government, you're right. In addition, a certain decadent stagnation afflicts much of the nobility, and it prevents any real reform even from those who might have the mind to do so.

Quote from: SteerpikeIs there a formal police force/militia?/secret police? There's a mention of guards, but these could just be household troops of the noble houses.

The nobility funds and provides them, so they are more or less household troops, and there is no independent professional police or military force in the city. There is a system of checks and balances so that an impulsive noble cannot plunge the city into civil war simply due to her house being on the losing end of an argument in the Octet, but this also means that the city's armed forces are likely to be somewhat slow to respond to threats as the noble houses bicker over how to deploy their forces.

Quote from: SteerpikeIs this a big city by drow standards?

Yes it is. You'd have to sail across the Undersea or travel for many weeks through the caverns to find a city that is larger than Torizzod.

Quote from: SteerpikeObviously the whole city is underground but is there much of an "undercity" - sewers, catacombs, etc?

Yes, there is. There are numerous tunnels under Torizzod, some built as part of the city's construction, others much older.

Quote from: SteerpikeVery roughly speaking, how far down are we? Like, is the surface just above our heads or are there miles of rock between us and the sun?

It's fairly close to the surface. The Undersea is not too far below sea level on the surface world. There are tunnels to the surface to the west of the city, which come up in a remote hilly area not well mapped among the surface populations.

Quote from: SteerpikeA more general question: do Mindflayers exist in this world?

There are rumors of something like that lurking in caverns below even Blackflame, but nothing has been substantiated.

Thanks for those answers.

It's an interesting Underdark you've got here. Beholders are extinct (at least supposedly), Mindflayers at most a vague rumour. Apart from the drow, are there any major subterannean civilizations i.e. duergar, dwarves, svifrneblin, etc, or are they mostly scattered tribes?

Quote from: SteerpikeIt's an interesting Underdark you've got here.

Thanks!
But, of course, it's not the Underdark, it's the Underdepths... :grin:

Quote from: SteerpikeMindflayers at most a vague rumour

Admittedly, the setting is vague enough that a big part of this is going to be driven by player desires. If nobody cares particularly much about mindflayers, they will remain a vague rumor, whereas if you go delving into the depths trying to find them, you probably will.

Quote from: SteerpikeApart from the drow, are there any major subterannean civilizations i.e. duergar, dwarves, svifrneblin, etc, or are they mostly scattered tribes?

Due to rough terrain and rampaging goblins, travel in the Underdepths can be difficult. This makes it hard to establish any sort of cohesive empire (at least without magic that isn't widely available) and has led to city-states being the dominant system of organization. Kobolds, orcs, and duergar all have settlements of various sizes and strengths nearby, but Torizzod is the unquestioned dominant regional power-- superior organization and magical aptitude means that the drow are generally the dominant race anywhere they have a city state of decent size, with only the duergar able to really rival them. Most drow city-states have an uneasy peace with the various great dwarven nations in the mountains closer to the surface, as they don't really compete for the same territory at all, and both consider their mutual enemies the goblins and the duergar to be far greater threats.

I'll join in on the questioning :grin:

Quote from: sparkletwist
It's fairly close to the surface. The Undersea is not too far below sea level on the surface world. There are tunnels to the surface to the west of the city, which come up in a remote hilly area not well mapped among the surface populations.

How viable would it be for our PCs to go on a surface raid?

Quote from: sparkletwist
Kobolds, orcs, and duergar all have settlements of various sizes and strengths nearby, but Torizzod is the unquestioned dominant regional power-- superior organization and magical aptitude means that the drow are generally the dominant race anywhere they have a city state of decent size, with only the duergar able to really rival them.

Roughly how hostile are these other races settlements toward a random party of dark elves caught in their neighbourhood? Is it always kill-on-sight or could some of them be parlayed and bargained with?

Quote from: GhostmanHow viable would it be for our PCs to go on a surface raid?

Quite viable! On a meta note the only real limitation is I'd need to know before the actual session what the plan was so I could prepare something.

Quote from: GhostmanRoughly how hostile are these other races settlements toward a random party of dark elves caught in their neighbourhood? Is it always kill-on-sight or could some of them be parlayed and bargained with?

Most duergar have a well-established hatred of all elven kind, especially drow; combined with the general duergar penchant for insularity and cynicism, this means that random dark elves showing up at a duergar city are likely to be attacked on sight. The orcs around Torizzod are similar, and it would be very difficult to get them to show any sort of temperance or mercy if they had the advantage. However, they generally regard drow with a mixture of hatred, resentment and grudging respect and could most likely be persuaded to talk if they were faced with undeniably superior power or made to believe the wrath of Torizzod was about to come down on them. Bargaining with them might be a challenge as the average orc is quite simply inherently far less smart than the average drow, but this also means they're somewhat gullible. Kobolds are perhaps the best hope-- while any kobold other than a well-armed and trained military patrol is likely to flee in terror from a party of dark elves, if peaceful contact can be made, kobolds are perhaps the most willing to negotiate, as they are quite pragmatic and are happy to talk if it means avoiding combat or subjugation. Most of them resent and fear the power of the larger and stronger races, and generally figure the best way for them to stay safe is to simply stay unnoticed, but if that isn't an option, they'd prefer negotiation to conflict. Goblins are generally too poorly organized to be able to say too much about them, roaming around in raiding bands or living in primitive nomadic villages of at most a few families. As such, the ability to negotiate would depend solely on the temperament of the individual goblin(s) involved.

Ooh, question time, cool.
Seeing as my character is a cleric, I'm obviously going to ask about religion.

You said that the Octet is the ruling body of Torizzod, and is made up of nobles. Does this make it a secular institution, or is there some flavour of theocracy or at least state religion involved in the government?
I presume, these being drow, that there is conflict between the different cults. How open is it? Do the different cults maintain their own militias in the same manner that the noble houses do?
If Ulrynn, as a priestess of the Hungering Cold, walked into a temple of the Spider Goddess or the Gravemistress or any other openly-worshipped deity, what sort of reception could she expect?
How big a part does religious ritual play in the life of the average citizen or Torizzod? Are the commonfolk pious, or do most just pay lip-service to the Spider Goddess?
Are any of the civic insitutions other than food production entirely run by the clergy (medical services, for example)?
What regard are the priesthood held in by the noble houses? Rivals for political power? Respected advisors? Tools to be exploited?

Quote from: KindlingYou said that the Octet is the ruling body of Torizzod, and is made up of nobles. Does this make it a secular institution, or is there some flavour of theocracy or at least state religion involved in the government?

The Octet is ostensibly secular, but there is not a particularly strict separation between the clergy and the nobility in Torizzod, and it's not at all uncommon for a noblewoman to buy her way into a senior clerical position, or for an influential priestess to be granted a title of nobility as a reward for her services. While all sects have a great deal of mixing with the nobility, the clergy of the Spider-Goddess, being the de facto state religion, is melded at the highest levels; for example, the High Priestess of Torizzod typically comes from the House of Tthiki, a claim to power they are loathe to give up. It's all very corrupt and based far more on the accruing of temporal power and fancy titles than any spiritual goal, of course.

Quote from: KindlingI presume, these being drow, that there is conflict between the different cults. How open is it? Do the different cults maintain their own militias in the same manner that the noble houses do?

Yes, each temple would maintain a small number of armed and combat-trained clerics in order to defend itself and its political interests. Open battle between rival temples generally does not happen, but it is not unheard of to hire mercenaries to engage the clerics of the rival temple in battle, have them assassinated, or other sorts of proxy combat. These feuds are inseparably mingled with the power struggles of the nobles, of course.

Quote from: KindlingIf Ulrynn, as a priestess of the Hungering Cold, walked into a temple of the Spider Goddess or the Gravemistress or any other openly-worshipped deity, what sort of reception could she expect?

She'd be treated with professional courtesy, albeit rather coldly. They'd likely think the worst of her motives and try get rid of her as quickly as possible.  If she were noble, she'd be trusted even less (as she'd be presumably furthering some rival house's agenda) but even without a title, she's presumed to be trying to doing someone's dirty work in hopes of acquiring one.

Quote from: KindlingHow big a part does religious ritual play in the life of the average citizen or Torizzod? Are the commonfolk pious, or do most just pay lip-service to the Spider Goddess?

Given the sheer cynicism shown by the religious authorities, it's hard for most people to muster much more than lip service, although they do generally appreciate the services provided by the clergy-- food, clean water, medical care, and whatnot. That doesn't mean there aren't the zealous true believers, of course, who generally see it as their mission to excise the corrupt nobility and all its intrigue from the true faith. It is quite likely that revolutionary reformers of their own faith who want to overthrow the entrenched oligarchy is one of the things that most temples keep armed clerics on hand to defend themselves against.

Quote from: KindlingAre any of the civic insitutions other than food production entirely run by the clergy (medical services, for example)?

Yes, it seems reasonable given their access to healing spells that clerics would be responsible for much of the city's medical needs as well. The clergy does not entirely run them but are by far in the best position to offer these services.

Quote from: KindlingWhat regard are the priesthood held in by the noble houses? Rivals for political power? Respected advisors? Tools to be exploited?

All of the above, at various times!

Very nice. A couple more...

What sort hierarchy would a cult or temple in Torizzod usually have for its clerics? I know I sort-of invented the Hungering Cold, but I would still like its worshippers to fit roughly into the general pattern for religions in the setting. I'm essentially wondering what sorts of relationships Ulrynn might typically have with her superiors and/or inferiors in the church.

As well as the politically and socially active mainstream of the priesthood, is there any kind of more insular or isolationist monastic-type tradition to any of the cults?

Are there any deities that the Hungering Cold might regard as more specific enemies, rather than just the general temporal and political rivalries that any cult might hold for another? What's the deal with the Gravemistress, for example? She sounds like another death-themed deity, so I can imagine there might be a rivalry there of some sort. Is the Gnarled Root a nature deity? If so, again, I can see the veneration of life being anathema to the Hungering Cold's worship of death's Boundless Silence.

I made up the Gravemistresses, Kindling.

In my head she is a drow, female manifestation of Kyuss.

Hmm, a quick wikipedia-ing reveals that Kyuss's stated dogma is extreeeemely similar to that of the Hungering Cold.

A thought I had was that perhaps a point of divergence for worshippers of the Hungering Cold (Cold Ones? Coldites? Hungered?) is that their faith revolves around a kind of merging with their deity in death, and a becoming a more passive part of the Boundless Silence. So maybe more individualistic and active versions of the afterlife and/or undeath are Abominations Unto The Hungering Cold, and the souls involved are percieved as blasphemous Voices disturbing the sacred stillness of the Boundless Silence.

I can modify the Gravemistress, too. I see her as basically a god of decay and unlife, all about the power and fecundity begat by death and rot. She's the "Mother of Maggots," as well. Basically, a death-god who is also an Earth Mother, all about fertility and creation but through putrescence and death, for her all death is simply an opportunity for transformation, etc.

That works, gives a pretty clear divide between the two. The Gravemistress is all about the physicality of death, whereas the Hungering Cold is a bit more spiritual in focus.

Maybe they could be sects that actually follow what were originally two different aspects of the same deity, that at some point started to be interpreted as separate gods as the cults diverged from each other?

Depending on the cosmology/theology, that kind of schism could be either a reflection or even a cause of an actual split of the deity itself if we went that route.

The Hungering Cold is genderless, right?

As I had imagined it, yes. More a cosmic force than a truly anthropomorphic deity.

Quote from: KindlingAs well as the politically and socially active mainstream of the priesthood, is there any kind of more insular or isolationist monastic-type tradition to any of the cults?

I think that all the cults would have this to some degree, but after reading the comments in this thread and also re-reading Ulrynn's biography, it occurred to me that one good way to express any religious split in practice might be that the Hungering Cold has a more ascetic tradition compared to some other death-oriented cults, like the Gravemistress. The idea of the cold symbolizing being more austere and free of corrupting influences seems like it could be thematically fitting. So, if you like this idea, I'd make the Hungering Cold sect more ideologically "pure" to a degree, at least to the extent that nobles are not allowed (or at least, not usually allowed) to buy their way into the sect's hierarchy with substantial "donations" like most of the other cults-- this would provoke the ire of nobles who would like to do exactly that, naturally, but would also give them a certain aura of integrity, at least in the eyes of those concerned with such things.

Quote from: KindlingMore a cosmic force than a truly anthropomorphic deity.

That actually fits in pretty well, too... I thought that a lot of the drow sects were so corrupt because they were corrupt from the top down. They serve demonic or abyssal patrons who have their own wicked motivations, and are happy to bargain for power. The currency is a bit more esoteric-- blood, sacrifices, souls-- but the basic idea is the same. A sect that doesn't interact so closely with a creature showing such naked ambition of its own would likely be more austere.

Quote from: KindlingWhat sort hierarchy would a cult or temple in Torizzod usually have for its clerics? I know I sort-of invented the Hungering Cold, but I would still like its worshippers to fit roughly into the general pattern for religions in the setting. I'm essentially wondering what sorts of relationships Ulrynn might typically have with her superiors and/or inferiors in the church.

Hmm... how about this? Each temple is run by a High Priestess, who has authority over the other priestesses, themselves in their own hierarchy-- the High Priestess commands the Senior Priestesses, who command the Revered Priestesses, who command the Adept Priestesses, who command the Initiate Priestesses. Each sect might have more thematic artful titles, like the Hungering Cold may give them coinages referring to cold, silence, and death.

Quote from: KindlingAre there any deities that the Hungering Cold might regard as more specific enemies, rather than just the general temporal and political rivalries that any cult might hold for another? What's the deal with the Gravemistress, for example? She sounds like another death-themed deity, so I can imagine there might be a rivalry there of some sort. Is the Gnarled Root a nature deity? If so, again, I can see the veneration of life being anathema to the Hungering Cold's worship of death's Boundless Silence.

The Gnarled Root is just a name I dropped because I liked the sound of it, but thinking about it more, a name like that would suggest a sort of veneration of life, particularly the sort of life you'd find in the Underdepths. It seems like the best choice for an ideological rivalry, because it would imply a certain vibrancy and zest for life (with all of the drow hedonism that goes along with it) that I would think would offend followers of the Hungering Cold on a very basic level.

Yeah I really like the sound of all of that, sparkle. Really works well for my initial character concept, fits in very nicely with the vision I had for her.

I'll try and come up with some flavourful titles for the different ranks of priestess of the Hungering Cold. What rank would Ulrynn be as a level 4 cleric? I'd assume adept, but possibly eyeing up a relatively imminent promotion to revered? Not that I would expect to have a squad of junior priestesses at my beck and call, of course.

EDIT: Naming idea - It's customary for priestesses of the Hungering Cold to address those of higher rank to themselves as Mother, those of lower rank as Daughter and those of equal rank as Sister. To this title, the following adjective is added to denote specific rank, where necessary: Quiet for Initiate Priestesses, Tranquil for Adept Priestesses, Frozen for Revered Priestesses and Eternal for Senior Priestesses.
The High Priestess stands above this system and is referred to as the Breath of Emptiness.

Quote from: KindlingWhat rank would Ulrynn be as a level 4 cleric? I'd assume adept, but possibly eyeing up a relatively imminent promotion to revered?

That sounds good to me. It would be a good hook to go adventuring-- she's looking for a way to prove her loyalty and service to the Hungering Cold.

Quote from: KindlingNot that I would expect to have a squad of junior priestesses at my beck and call, of course.

No, not necessarily, but with the more tactical combat focus of this game, if circumstances warrant it, I could see it being reasonable to give Ulrynn some backup. With other players commanding undead and summoned monsters and such, it seems fair enough, anyway. So it does remain a possibility!

Quote from: KindlingNaming idea

I like it!

Just a reminder! The first session is tomorrow (April 7) at 1pm CDT.
Please have your character sheets ready by then.

From talking to several of you, the sense I got was that the group will be meeting at the Emberfall Cabal with a vague plan to go exploring the Crypt of Phantoms. So that will be the main thing. Of course, what the exact details are, how well you all know each other, and such are up to you.

Morwen would definitely be up for that plan, but if other people have different rumours or stuff they're interested in I'd be fine with other things. Morwen needs money for her experiments (those black onyx gems are expensive!) so any kind of treasure-gathering adventure is great.

100% for Crypt

I'm down for the crypt!

Quote from: TangentialI would like to tie in Zzlang'kor to Areza Baenafin by saying they became associated only after the Cabal - through mutual friends perhaps - at which time he became fascinated by Brazilith's company. Areza has recieved several anonymous payments in recent months that have helped keep her and the salon afloat [[lets say 600 gp]], which she may or may not have traced to Zzlang'kor.

Works for me! So is the plan for Zzlang'kor to have turned down invitations to join her exclusive little club so far, or is he a member in addition to being an anonymous patron? (I don't think Areza has traced them back yet, it'd be more interesting if that came up in game.)

For other people:

@Ghostman: If you want, Malagaun could have been invited to join the Cabal as a respected mercenary, or he could actually start off employed by the Areza as a bodyguard/exploitative consultant as the Cabal is gearing up to move into "go out and do things."

@Steerpike: Morwen would have been invited to join the Cabal pretty early on, seeing as she's is a noblewoman and all that, and I'm thinking might have been the first actual noble member of the Cabal - Areza would have offered a generous grant of whatever she thought would entice Morwen to join, just to get at least one noble on board (even an outcast one).

@Kindling: Ulrynn probably would have been invited early on too, since she's a priestess and all that. I'm not entirely sure what Areza could have offered her to join - but another thought occurs to me, since Ulrynn isn't a noble either. What if Areza and Ulrynn are childhood friends, and while they drifted apart while Ulrynn started her preisthood and Areza started her social climbing, they recently reconnected?

@Sparkletwist: If you want, there'd be room in the Emberfall club for other members who could provide plot hooks and all that, even if they aren't part of the active group that goes out on adventures and all that. :)

I updated my sheet, with information about Malagaun's demonic ancestry.

@ Xathan: It would be very much in character for Malagaun to be a regular patron in the Sable Web. That might be how he came to know Areza. Another possible angle would be some kind of connection between Errah-ull and Brazilith.

@ Tangential: I like that proposed shared background with Zzlang'kor.

So how'd the rest of the session turn out? :)

We only went minutes beyond you. The iron struggle between archon and statues + scorpion remains dead locked. Good stuff!

Yeah, the addition of a haste spell will hopefully turn things in our favour. Morwen actually kinda sucks vs. boss monsters with DR, especially Constructs. I think in general we'll fare better against squishy foes and undead.

EDIT: If we run into a lot more constructs we should probably return to town and re-equip (adamantine ammunition, scrolls of true shot...?).

I didn't anticipate it would turn into such a slugfest, I admit. However, the party has handled themselves well. I won't reveal too much about what else is in the Crypt, but I will say that what you have seen so far is a pretty good sample of what is to be found there.

The XP reward for this session will be a bit lower because the main encounter didn't yet end, but you guys did have some good RP (which let you overcome some goblins) and took care of some skeletons, too. So all of you please PM me how many XP you think you should get.

Sorry about slowing down the battle there with my rules issues last night. I was trying to make use of the tactical grid positioning but wasn't well enough read up on the rules to do that, so it turned into a confusing mess-up.

Quote from: Steerpike
Yeah, the addition of a haste spell will hopefully turn things in our favour. Morwen actually kinda sucks vs. boss monsters with DR, especially Constructs. I think in general we'll fare better against squishy foes and undead.

Same, at least for now. Once we get to higher levels of summon monster I can start calling up things that deal energy damage, which completely ignores DR. Read over the fight - those things are brutal! Think I'm going to summon a variant archon, which will swap out the improved natural armor for Magic Attacks - which will hopefully bypass the DR. If not, going to go for the far more squishy fire elementals and try to get some burn damage in, which should also bypass DR.

QuoteEDIT: If we run into a lot more constructs we should probably return to town and re-equip (adamantine ammunition, scrolls of true shot...?).

Adamantine ammunition would be great. Dunno how much true strike would help - at least we would hit more, but we wouldn't bypass that DR. Maybe bear's strength for the extra damage? or magic fang for the summons? Or any spell that does energy damage, since energy damage just bypasses DR. (Really, we need a wand of magic missile right now.)

Suddenly, I regret spending all my gold on a fancy inn and fancy slaves. :P

Quote from: sparkletwist
I didn't anticipate it would turn into such a slugfest, I admit. However, the party has handled themselves well. I won't reveal too much about what else is in the Crypt, but I will say that what you have seen so far is a pretty good sample of what is to be found there.

I'm actually kinda glad it turned into a slugfest. The whole thing very much feels like what would happen if a bunch of young arrogant drow, sure in their own power, went off half-cocked into the depths of an Eye Tryant's lair - finding themselves in over their heads by a bit, but still getting to look awesome while doing it.

Magic attacks might be OK but the scorpion has spell resistance, so that could be an issue (one of my spells fizzled against it).

I mentioned true strike just for AC reasons - Ulrynn's arrows just kept bouncing off. But yeah, bear's strength could also work.

Quote from: Steerpike
Ulrynn's arrows just kept bouncing off.

Only because Sparkbot was being difficult.

Well, since this wasn't nearly as awful as I feared... perhaps we should try again. :grin:
New doodle! (http://doodle.com/y296a8b8ikvu93rx) (As before, all times are CDT)

I still need to hear from Kindling and Tangential about XP, also. :)

>.>

Adding up and dividing everyone's vote (which varied quite widely, by the way) I got a total 450 XP for last session... which was, interestingly enough, actually really close to my own vote.

Speaking of XP, are we on a Medium progression? The XP in the character thread seemed to suggest so but I can't actually find any mention of progression rates.

Yes, medium progression.

I don't think we should try to have a game any time in the immediate future. People don't seem to be all that available and I'd rather wait a little longer than push into a game with only 3/5 when we're in the midst of a tense battle. (Admittedly I could use a little more prep time too) So I will put up another Doodle soon to look ahead another couple of weeks.

My next week was pretty much always going to be a no-go, so I probably didn't help. My schedule is a bit in flux at the moment, but I should be able to firm things up soon.

Let's try this again. :) New doodle! (http://doodle.com/fba5hxqgfqp8ks8y)
As usual, all times are CDT.

The next game is Tuesday April 21 at 1:00 pm CDT.

woo!

Just a reminder! The next session is tomorrow (April 21) at 1pm CDT.

Ghostman, Steerpike, and Xathan, please PM me what you think you should get for XP. This time the reward can be bigger because the party defeated the major constructs.

Also, unless anyone objects, I think Ulrynn and Zzlang'kor should get the XP reward too, because they were present and helped out, and it keeps the party's advancement in sync.

I totally wrote down that this was to be played today and not Tuesday. I am very sorry. You nailed Zzlangkor's interactions in the Tale's that were ever so worth reading.

Quote from: sparkletwist
Also, unless anyone objects, I think Ulrynn and Zzlang'kor should get the XP reward too, because they were present and helped out, and it keeps the party's advancement in sync.

Yes, I agree with that being a thing that we do. :)

Each character receives 1350 XP. This means everyone should have a total of 10800 after these two sessions.
As for loot, from the sale of the scorpion-thing's parts you get 1200 gp, or 240 gp each. In addition, Morwen and Malagaun each have gotten a masterwork longsword, and Azera has the tail crystal from the scorpion.

Tuesdays have worked out pretty well for us so far. How is everyone's availability on the 28th? Would another 1pm CDT game work?
I could probably even start a little earlier to give us more time before Xathan has to leave, if that works.

If not, I'll make a new Doodle.  :yumm:

Works for me! I could go earlier if it works for everyone else. :)

I could do that time or earlier.

That time works, and earlier would be even better.

Ok, let's do Tuesday April 28th at 12:00 pm CDT then.

Three should be enough for some continuing adventures, but of course Tangential and Kindling are welcome if they can make it, too.

Reminder! The game is tomorrow (the 28th) at noon CDT.
I hope to see all of you there. :)

Another good game. :D

Those present, please send me a PM with your XP vote, as usual.
Also, do you guys like this method of doing XP? Should we stick with it?

I'm cool with it. I think I've learned I underestimate XP when I'm a player compared to other people.

The votes are in. 1100 XP for the last session.

Here's a new Doodle (http://doodle.com/cp5xwzfv73gqrrg2).

Shall we try this again?

All times are CDT, usual.

http://doodle.com/5pms5vbguxvnufrg

Any interest in trying to get this going again?

The big thing is I haven't seen Xathan around lately. Anyone heard from him?

Haven't seen him around in awhile... he hasn't signed in for about a month. Hopefully he'll be back soon!

Ask and I am summoned, apparently.

Life is crazy, but I'm going to tentatively say yes, I am in!

When, approximately, is a good time for you guys?
Should I make a Doodle?

(I wonder if Tangential is still around. Maybe I can summon him the same way I summoned Xathan... :grin: )

I have somewhat limited time but would certainly be up for a return to the Underdepths.

non-thursday weekdays, after 4pm cst, are ideal for me, or during the day on Monday.

Count me interested.

Hmm, how is the afternoon (or night for Ghostman) of Monday the 31st?
Like let's say around 12pm CDT (10am PDT) on the 31st? Is that too early for you, Steerpike?
(If this shot in the dark doesn't work I'll make a Doodle...)

Unfortunately I'm actually working that Monday!

Ok, let's try a Doodle! (http://doodle.com/xh39576cgnzpbd4b)
All times given are in CDT (UTC-5)

I am interested in trying this out and I can (possibly) make some of those times.

Excellent. Also this is a poke to everyone else to fill in the Doodle! :grin:

The Doodle is filled. Both the 11th and 12th seem promising but neither one can accommodate everyone, unfortunately.

I personally have the most flexibility on the 12th so I'll ask, would a time later in the day than 1pm CDT help accommodate more people-- like around 4pm CDT or so? That is, could Xathan and/or Polycarp make it then, while still being able to have Steerpike and Ghostman?

(Otherwise, the 11th seems better. Steerpike, any possible flexibility there?)

I can do a later time on the 12th, barring any possible complications I couldn't foresee. :P

I could potentially do later on the 12th, but have 0 flexibility on the 11th, unfortunately.

To make planning easier, basically my schedule is now such that Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays are more-or-less a total no-go. I can do some times during Tuesdays and Thursdays (especially in the afternoon) and weekends. This schedule will last for about 4 months or so.

Starting later on the 12th works for me.

Ok, for the time being, let's schedule it for ~4:00 pm CDT on September 12th.
I'll come on a bit early so we can convene as soon as everyone's there.

The 12th is tenuous for me, because I am probably starting a 2,000 mile car trip on the next day.  I might make it, but I can't really commit.

Just a reminder to everyone that the game will be on Saturday the 12th at (or before, if everyone can make it) 4:00 pm CDT.

It's looking more likely that I will be able to make this, though I might have to leave around 7.  I'll try to show up a little early in case other people do too.

Hey guys. Just got informed by work they're moving me back an hour, so I'm going to be home a little before 5 CST. Go ahead and start without me, I'll jump on as soon as I get home.

The situation was that the party was considering whether to go into another battle that was likely to be quite tough, or skip back to the inn and rest first.
Areza is the one who ultimately controls the ring so she'd have a lot of say in it. What would you rather do?

Skip back to inn to rest seems the most prudent thing, we spent a lot of spells last time iirc, so that's what she would want to do.

About the XP voting system, I'm more and more feeling that it's not really doing much good. So, while I'm not going to ask us to abandon it, since for all I know others might be enjoying it, I'm personally going to settle on a fixed XP/session rate. I think 1000 XP would be a good rate because at medium progression starting at level 4, it translates to 6 sessions = first level-up, and then 8 more sessions = second one. That's a decent pace IMO, given how lengthy breaks we tend to take between games. So from now on I'm always voting for 1000 XP, regardless of what happened in the game, and making that public here -- I don't see any harm in doing so.

I don't think it's a secret that I am a big fan of a narrative-focused, player-driven sort of game. As such, in a game like Pathfinder, where character advancement is a pretty big deal and an important part of play, I feel like it's important to give players a say in how character advancement happens. And I'm happy with whatever players end up saying.

Granting advancement every N sessions is a perfectly reasonable method of allocating experience. To me, all you're doing is stating that that's your preference-- and that's fine with me, because the idea of having the vote was to let players have a say in that. So, perhaps I'm just being optimistic, but to me it feels like the XP voting system is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing.

Hi, sorry I have missed this. I think because of my new job and having just moved it's fair to say I probably won't be playing Ulrynn in this any more - at least in the near future. Good gaming to you all though and thanks for running the game sparkletwist!

I'd like to have another session at some point but scheduling seems a bit tight and, given that there's a pretty big overlap between this game's players and Fimbulvinter's, I'm happy to cede the next good "time slot" to Fimbulvinter. So maybe after that we can try to set up another session!