The Campaign Builder's Guild

Hey everyone. Sorry I've been away for so long. That's my m.o. now, isn't it?

First, a quick update about what's been going on in my life. There's some medical stuff. A demotion at work. Dealing with depression. The usual: life.

But, to help with things, I'm trying to socialize more, which partially means playing games again. So, I have a new group ready to start playing D&D soon, so that's good.

5E came out a while ago, and while I'm not super excited about it, I did decide to start fiddling with it. The system is much more like 3E than it is like 4E, and I had a lot of fun fiddling with 3E crunch back in the day. After running a few sessions, I found the Fighter and Rogue to be a bit boring, so I decided to dust off a maneuver system from 3E (Book of Iron Might, a Mike Mearls book done through Malavok Press) and set about updating it to 5E. Here's what I have so far:

[note=change notes]I have switched out the attack penalty system for a rank system. It is now explicit that an attack must be balanced down to rank 0. This will have the system behave more like I intended. I removed a few maneuver effects, and have altered the drawbacks a bit too. Eventually, I may use this system to help balance a spell crafting system.[/note]Review Notes
This maneuver system is modified from the maneuver system presented in "Book of Iron Might" for 3rd Edition D&D, more specifically for the OGL d20 system. The maneuver system was fully OGL, so modifying it is fine, though I'm not 100% certain on the interaction between the OGL and 5th Edition; I suppose if 5th Edition isn't mentioned, it's fine. I'm looking to post it online, but not sell it, so I can probably make it fit into the 5th Edition fansite rules.
   It has been modified for new 5th Edition, with alterations for changed terms, conditions, and methods (there are no attack penalties or AC penalties; Advantage is used). The maneuvers were balanced around the existence of a few pieces within 5th Edition.

   Standard Attack: Attack vs. AC; Hit: [W]+Ability modifier
   Push Maneuver: Str (Athletics) vs. Str (Athletics) or Dex (Acrobatics) (defender's choice); Win: Defender pushed 5 feet, or knocked prone.
   Grapple Maneuver: Str (Athletics) vs. Str (Athletics) or Dex (Acrobatics) (defender's choice); Win: Defender is grappled (grappled condition is "speed 0", ended when it is broken with an action and a Str or Dex check vs. the grappler's Str, or if the grappler is incapacitated, or if the grappler lets go).

   Additional balance guide posts were drawn from the Fighter (Battlemaster) maneuvers, where the fighter has a choice of maneuvers that are all "on hit, spend superiority die to add to damage and target makes X save or suffer Y condition until the end of your next turn". Y conditions include: disarmed, target has disadvantage on all attack rolls against all targets other than you, frightened, push 15 feet, and prone. The fighter could also choose a similar maneuver, with no save, that grants advantage to an ally's next attack roll made against the target. Thus, these conditions must be considered situationally equal.
   I am not certain if I will keep the "Opportunity Attack" drawbacks in the final rules. In 5th Edition, Opportunity Attacks are only provoked via movement out of a threatened zone, and thus might seem out of place on maneuvers.

Combat Maneuvers
   Pen and Paper RPGs are games of rules and games of improvisation. Unlike a computer game, where anything you want to do in game has to be programmed into the game, tabletop games allow for players to have their characters attempt anything they can imagine. Some game masters and players, though, would like guidelines to help them keep the game fair and balanced.
   These rules are adapted from the Combat Maneuver rules presented in Malavok Press's Book of Iron Might, and thus is being published under the OGL. It has been modified to fit into the balance considerations and framework of the new edition.

Building Blocks
Combat maneuvers are composed of two building blocks, as follows:
   1. Effects: Maneuver Effects are the riders added to an attack's effect. A standard attack's effect is "damage", and a standard maneuver adds effects to this. You may throw sand into someone's eyes (Blindness), slice an opponent's hand to make them drop their weapon (Disarming Attack), or attack a foe's legs to slow them down (Movement Damage). Each effect has listed rank.
   Multiple effects can be added onto an attack, and you add all ranks together to determine the final rank of the maneuver.
   2. Drawbacks: Maneuver effects ranks associated with them, and those ranks correspond to the number of drawbacks required to balance the maneuver. Drawbacks range from giving up an attack's damage (in the aforementioned sand throwing, no damage is dealt, only the maneuver's effect) to adding an attack penalty, or even suffering the effects of the attack yourself. A maneuver must apply drawbacks to a maneuver until its rank is reduced to 0.
   The maneuver replaces a single attack, whether that attack is an opportunity attack, a single attack as part of an extra attack sequence, or an attack gained through a bonus action.

Table Rules
Adding these combat maneuvers to your game could slow things down. There are several ways to handle their addition, depending on how you and your players want to handle them.
   1. All Out: For a group proficient with game rules, the simplest thing to do is let the players have full access to the maneuvers. Allow players to choose their own effects and drawbacks on the fly. Some adjudication may need to be done on the fly (how does that maneuver blind both you and the opponent?), but this method allows for the most transparency and flexibility.
   2. DM's Eyes Only: On the opposite end of the spectrum, a group may want to leave the maneuver system fully in the hands of the DM. Players simply decide what they're trying to accomplish, describe their actions to the GM, and the GM puts the maneuver together and asks for an attack roll. An exchange could play out like this:

Player: I want to throw sand in his eyes.
DM: What are you trying to accomplish?
Player: I want to blind him, of course.
DM: (DM selects Blind, a rank 3 effect, and adds Effects Only 2 and Inaccurate). Alright, make your attack with Dexterity with a -5 penalty, and the sand won't do any damage.
Player: (rolls 1d20, adding their attack bonus and subtracting 5) I got a 13, is that enough to hit?
DM: Yes, you throw sand into your foe's eyes. They bring up their arm to rub the sand from their eyes (rolls a Constitution save) and they fail; they're blinded until they make their save.
Player: Excellent. Everyone, run!

   3. Prebuild Maneuvers: A middle ground between the open and restrictive options presented above is to have your table construct maneuvers in advance. These are much like the Push and Grapple maneuvers present in the rules already. These could be treated as special techniques that characters need to learn, or could be options open to everybody. Prebuilt maneuvers will be presented later, but they can't cover everything your group can come up with.
   4. Critical Hits: A 4th option is to only allow maneuvers as additional choices on critical hits. This version of maneuvers is presented later.
   5. Signature Moves: Rather than leaving maneuvers open, a group may decide to only allow maneuvers with the Signature Move feat, presented later.

Spells and Maneuvers
Many spells call for attack rolls. A spell with an attack roll can be used to deliver a maneuver just like a weapon attack. As usual, a DM may determine that a particular spell is incompatible with a maneuver effect, but it is often best to try to say yes whenever possible.

Ranged Attacks and Maneuvers
Ranged attacks come with their own limitations, such as attacks being made at a disadvantage when performed in melee. As such, maneuver effects are fully compatible with ranged attacks. As usual, a DM may determine a particular maneuver cannot be performed with a ranged attack. Ranged maneuvers cannot use drawbacks with the opportunity keyword.

Opportunity Attacks
Maneuvers can be attempted on opportunity attacks, but they cannot use a disadvantage with the opportunity keyword.

Saving Throw DCs
Many maneuver effects require a saving throw and end on a successful saving throw made at the end of a target's turn. Determine the saving throw DC with the following formula:

   Maneuver save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + the ability modifier associated with your attack (Strength for melee or thrown, Dexterity for finesse or ranged attacks, or possibly Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma for spells).

Maneuver Effects
Maneuver effects are presented using the following format. If a specific effect does not call for one of these, it is simply omitted.
   Name (Rank): The maneuver effect's name appears first in each description, followed by the effect's rank.
   Description: The maneuver's effect is described without using game mechanics. This is meant to make it easier to scan the effects for a maneuver effect.
   Prerequisites: Some maneuver effects have additional requirements. A foe might need to be vulnerable to critical hits, for instance.
   Rules: This section summarizes how the effect works.
   Critical Hit: Some effects grant additional benefits if you score a critical hit with them.
   Considerations: Some effects call for special considerations. These are offered to help DMs and players choose effects effectively.
   Special Features: Some effects have options on how to modify them. These are, in effect, special drawbacks, and cannot be combined with drawbacks with the same keywords.

Maneuver	Rank	Benefit
Area Attack	1 per target	Attack an area and all targets in it
Blinding Attack	3	Target blinded, save ends
Bonus Damage	1	+5 bonus to damage
Deafening Attack	2	Target deafened, save ends
Disable Attack	2	Prevent use of one physical attack, save ends
Disarming Attack	1	Target loses weapon
Disrupt Special Ability	2	Prevent use of special ability, save ends
Forced Movement	1	Opponent moves 5 feet
Frightening Attack	1	Target frightened 1 round
Grant Advantage	1 or 2	Grant advantage on next attack against target
Grappling Attack	1	Target grappled until broken
Impose Disadvantage	1	Target suffers disadvantage on attacks or checks for 1 round
Incapacitate	3	Target incapacitated for 1 round
Knockback	1	Push foe back 5 or more feet
Knockdown	1	Knock opponent prone
Movement Damage	1	Reduce foe's speed by half
Restraining Attack	3	Target restrained until broken
Stunning Attack	4	Target stunned 1 round
Sundering Attack	2	Deal damage against object or weapon foe carries

Drawback	Keyword	Rank Reduction	Description
Effects Only	Damage	1 or 2	Maneuver only inflicts effects, not standard damage
Focused Attack	Action	2	Give up extra attack
Free Strike	Opportunity	1 or 2	Foe automatically makes a free strike, perhaps ruining maneuver
Inaccurate	Attack	1	Make your attack with a -5 penalty
Overpowering Effort	Effort	1	Grant Advantage to opponents who attack you until your next turn
Overwhelming Effort	Effort	1	Fall prone after completing maneuver
Reduced Damage	Damage	1	Maneuver only inflicts half damage
Reflective Attack	Opportunity	1	Foe has chance to use your maneuver on you

Area Attack (Rank 1)
With an arching swing, you strike at multiple foes. You nock multiple arrows and let them haphazardly fly at your foes.
   Prerequisite: You must have a way of physically harming the entire targeted area, such as having reach into it. This effect represents a single attack that sweeps through an area, or a volley of ranged attacks fired at the same time, not multiple attacks. Line of sight and line of effect is drawn from your space for each attack, as usual.
   Rules: You attack an area rather than a single target. You may pick as many opponents as you could conceivably reach with your attack. You take a penalty on your attack based on the number of foes you try to strike. You make an attack roll against each foe separately. Roll damage separately for each target you hit.
   Special: The rank of the maneuver is 1 for every enemy you attack, including the first. For example, a strike against three targets is a Rank 3 effect. You cannot score a critical hit with an attack that uses this maneuver.

Blinding Attack (Rank 3)
A cut to the face, sending blood into the eyes. A handful of sand thrown high. However you do it, you seek to blind your opponent, to escape or to take away their ability to attack and defend.
   Warning Flag: Like all maneuvers that impose a penalty on the target's AC (by granting advantage to attackers), this effect makes it much easier to apply additional effects. A blinded opponent should behave logically under the circumstances, either surrendering or fleeing. Only under extraordinary circumstances should a blinded foe stand and continue to fight. All attacks to a foe's eyes should not be blinding attacks; instead, use Inflict Disadvantage (Attacks) for many eye attacks, especially those that are unlikely to permanently damage the eyes.
   Prerequisite: Your target must use eyes or a similar organ in order to see. Eyewear or headwear may prevent or protect against blinding attacks (and require removal first).
   Rules: If you hit, the target of this effect must make a Constitution saving throw or be blinded. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, the blindness ends.
   Critical Hit: On a critical hit, the target is blinded permanently. The DM may determine additional treatment requirements, such as if a player is subjected to such blindness, but a Wisdom (Heal) check during a long rest is a safe start.

Bonus Damage (Rank 1)
A mighty swing with more power, or an accurate strike to a vital area; however you do it, you seek to bring your foe down fast.
   Rules: If you hit, add a +5 bonus on your damage roll. You can apply this effect twice for a maximum of +10 to damage.
   Critical Hit: As critical hits only double dice, this bonus damage is not affected.
   Rank: The maneuver is rank 1 for each additional +5 damage added.

Deafening Attack (Rank 2)
A ringing helm or a quick hit to the ears, you seek to rob your foe of their hearing.
   Prerequisite: The DM must judge that it hears in a manner similar to humans; some animals hear through their entire bodies, making it difficult to deafen them with normal attacks, though an attack that deals thunder damage may work.
   Rules: If you hit, the target of this effect must make a Constitution saving throw or be deafened. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, the deafness ends.
   Critical Hit: On a critical hit, the target is deafened permanently. The DM may determine additional treatment requirements, such as if a player is subjected to such blindness, but a Wisdom (Heal) check during a long rest is a safe start.
   Considerations: This effect is rather circumstantial in its application, but it can prove very useful in certain situations.

Disable Attack (Rank 2)
Cutting muscle and smashing bone, a strike to the hand or a jaw can temporarily rob your foe of the ability to use their natural weaponry.
   Prerequisite: This maneuver is similar to disarm. Rather than knocking a weapon out of someone's hands, this maneuver targets a creature's natural weapons, such as a bite, claws, or an arm. Rather than ending with a Use Object action, it ends with a successful save.
   Rules: Before attempting this maneuver, select one of your foe's natural weapons or limbs. If you hit, your opponent must make a Constitution save or it cannot attack with that natural weapon or limb. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, they regain use of their natural weapon or limb.

Disarming Attack (Rank 1)
A smashing attack to the hand, a pressure point in the arm, or a flick of the wrist, and your opponent's weapon is sent tumbling to the ground.
   Prerequisite: You can use this maneuver only against opponents that are armed with manufactured weapons as opposed to claws, fangs, or other natural weapons.
   Rules: If you hit, the target must make a Strength or Dexterity save (usually determined by the stat used for the attack) drop their weapon. Picking up a weapon is free on your turn, unless you have already used an object; then it will require a Use an Object action.

Disrupt Special Ability (Rank 2)
A strike to a dragon's throat sets it coughing. A wounded eye foils a gaze attack. Even supernatural powers can be disrupted.
   Prerequisite: The special ability you choose to disrupt must come from an obvious source, such as an eyes for a gaze attack or a mouth for a breath weapon.
   Rules: First, choose a special ability possessed by your target. If you hit with this effect, the creature must make a Constitution saving throw or lose the benefit of that ability. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, they regain use of the ability (and it is recharged, if it had recharge rolls).

Forced Movement (Rank 1)
Leading strikes, feints, or perhaps a simple yank, sends your foe in any direction.
   Rules: If you hit, your target must succeed on a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (usually determined by the stat used for the attack) or be shifted 5 feet in any direction. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. You cannot force your opponent into an occupied area. Your opponent gets advantage on their saving throw if you try to push them into a hazardous area, and they stop before they are harmed; for instance, if you try to maneuver someone into a pit, and they succeed their save, they catch the edge.

Frightening Attack (Rank 1)
A primal charge or a show of terrifying skill makes your opponent think twice about facing you.
   Rules: If your maneuver hits, the target must make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you for 1 round.

Grant Advantage, 1 ally (Rank 1)
Your attack sets your foe up for another attack.
   Rules: If your attack hits, choose an creature. That creature gains Advantage to its next Attack Roll against the target made before the end of your next turn.

Grant Advantage, all (Rank 2)
Your attack distracts your foe, or you put their defenses right where you want them.
   Rules: If your attack hits, all attacks made against it until the start of your next turn have advantage.

Grappling Attack (Rank 1)
You grab your foe with a mighty strike, or swing with your weapon and reach out with your hand in the follow up. Maybe you pierce your foe's armor and pin them to a tree, or fire arrows into their sleeves to stick them to a wall.
   Prerequisite: You must have a hand free to grab the target, use a weapon designed for grabbing, or may use a weapon to stick an opponent in place (dropping it from your hand). If you are attempting to pin your opponent with a weapon, they must be adjacent to something you could pin them to. Your target must be your size or smaller.
   Rules: If your attack hits, your opponent must make a Strength of Dexterity save (usually based on the stat you used to make the attack) or it is grappled. On its turn, it may make a check to escape (see grappling rules). If you used a weapon to pin them instead and you are no longer in contact with the weapon, then they can break free with a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check against a DC 10. The condition also ends if you are incapacitated or if an effect moves the grappled creature from the reach of you or the grappling effect.

Impose Disadvantage (Rank 1)
Your attack rattles your foe, impeding their ability to act further.
   Rules: You inflict disadvantage on your opponents attack rolls, checks, or saves. Pick one type of penalty when designing this maneuver. This penalty lasts for 1 round, ending at the beginning of your next turn.
   Critical Hit: If you score a critical hit, the penalty lasts until the target succeeds on a saving throw, chosen by the DM.

Incapacitating Attack (Rank 3)
You knock the wind out of your foe, tangle up its limbs, or otherwise leave it unable to act.
   Warning Flag: This effect could prove deadly for a solitary opponent, since players can lock it down with multiple attacks. Solitary opponents tend to be stronger than the player characters, and usually have higher saving throws, so pairing it with a saving throw can help to balance it. A DM may want to grant an NPC or a player a bonus to resist multiple attempts, or simply say that additional attempts fail (who falls for the same trick twice?). Its high attack penalty means it requires many drawbacks, or a particularly low AC foe for it to work repeatedly.
   Rules: If you hit, your opponent must make a Constitution saving throw or be incapacitated for 1 round.
   Penalty: You take a -20 penalty on your attack roll.

Knockback (Rank 1)
Your mighty attack drives your opponent back. A deft attack at the legs sends your opponent stumbling.
   Rules: If your attack hits, your target must make a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (usually determined by the stat used for the attack). If they fail, you push your foe 5 feet directly away from you. For every additional 5 points by which they failed their saving throw, you push them back an additional 5 feet. Your foe suffers any negative consequences for moving into hazardous terrain. If they hit a solid object, they stop. If a victim of this maneuver hits another creature, it stops before entering its space.
   Critical Hit: On a critical hit, your opponent suffers disadvantage on their saving throw.

Knockdown (Rank 1)
A forceful attack sends them to the ground. A fancy strike causes them to trip.
   Rules: If you hit, your target must make a Strength or Dexterity saving throw (usually determined by the stat used for the attack) or fall prone.

Movement Damage (Rank 1)
A strike to the limb makes your opponent stumble.
   Prerequisites: With this effect, you cannot negate a creature's movement if it moves without the aid of an obvious anatomical means, such as wings or legs. You target muscles, bones, and other physical organs. Thus, you could not negate the areal movement of a creature that magically flies.
   Rules: Pick a movement mode used by your target, such as walking, flying, or climbing. If you hit,  its speed is reduced by half. At the end of each of its turns, the target can make a Constitution saving throw. On a success, its speed is returned to normal.

Restraining Attack (Rank 3)
You grab and pin your opponent. You wrap them in a whip, or bind them tight with another weapon.
   Prerequisite: You must have a hand free to grab the target, or may use a weapon to stick an opponent in place (dropping it from your hand). If you are attempting to pin your opponent with a weapon, they must be adjacent to something you could pin them to. Your target must be your size or smaller.
   Rules: If your attack hits, your opponent must make a Strength of Dexterity save (usually based on the stat you used to make the attack) or it is grappled. On its turn, it may make a check to escape (see grappling rules). If you used a weapon to pin them instead and you are no longer in contact with the weapon, then they can break free with a Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check against a DC 10. The condition also ends if you are incapacitated or if an effect moves the grappled creature from the reach of you or the grappling effect.

Stunning Attack (Rank 4)
A gut-strike that knocks the wind out of your foe. An attack to a bundle of nerves that sends temporary paralysis through their body.
   Warning Flag: This effect mimics the monk's stunning fist. While the number of drawbacks this maneuver requires make it far less efficient than the monk's stunning fist ability, its presence in your game could detract from the unique status of the ability.
   Rules: If you hit, your opponent must make a Constitution saving throw or be is stunned until the end of your next turn.

Sundering Attack (Rank 2)
You direct your attack at your opponent's weapon, or an item they're carrying, attempting to destroy it.
   Prerequisite: You can only attempt to use this maneuver if you are using a natural attack or a bludgeoning or slashing weapon, unless a piercing weapon could conceivably work (per DM). The DM decided what type of damage resistances different items have.
   Rules: You strike and deal damage against a weapon or shield carried by a foe, generally rolling against their AC.
   Special: Sundering an opponent's armor requires special consideration, and it might be better handled with granting advantage to attacks against the target.

Drawback Descriptions
Each drawback description includes advice on how and why you should use it. These comments show how to use the drawbacks in conjunction with a maneuver's description, and they should help you decide how to apply drawbacks to a maneuver.
   One cannot apply two drawbacks with the same keyword without special considerations. Some drawbacks interact with other drawbacks differently as well. Ranged attacks require special consideration; they cannot utilize drawbacks with the Opportunity keyword.

Effects Only (Damage)
Your maneuver does not deal damage with a weapon strike. You throw a curtain over your opponent's eyes, or you push your entire body into your foe to drive them back.
   Modifier: Your maneuver deals no normal damage.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 2. Instead, you can reduce the rank of the maneuver by 1, but the attack also has no attack roll; this drawback requires the maneuver to allow a saving throw or other check to avoid it's effects.
   Usage: This drawback is best used for environmental effects or effects which must be defended against rather than maneuvers that are actively targetted. Standard maneuvers utilize this drawback, replacing an attack fully for a grapple, push, or disarm, for instance.

Focused Attack (Action)
Your maneuver requires additional focus, prohibiting the use of extra attacks.
   Modifier: If you have the extra attack feature, you give up extra attacks in order to improve your primary attack.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 2 for each extra attack sacrificed.
   Usage: This drawback is best used for maneuvers that require extreme aim or extra effort.

Free Strike (Opportunity Attack)
Using a maneuver with this drawback relies upon getting hit by your opponent's attack. Your opponent automatically hits with a melee attack and rolls damage as normal, before you attempt the maneuver.
   Modifier: Your opponent gets to make an immediate attack against you before you attempt the maneuver. You can reduce the rank of the maneuver by another 1 if a successful attack from your foe will spoil the maneuver.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Usage: This drawback is best used for maneuvers that require getting hit by an opponent's attack to function. You might force a beast to bite you in order to put it into a vulnerable position and grapple it, or you might purposefully take a hit in order to leverage a disarm.
   Special: As an opportunity drawback, it cannot be applied to ranged attacks.

Inaccurate (Attack)
This maneuver is particularly difficult to perform.
   Modifier: You suffer a -5 penalty to your attack roll.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Special: This maneuver cannot be combined with Effects Only 1, as it removes the attack roll. Alternately, your DM may allow you to apply this as a +5 bonus on your opponent's saving throw.
   Usage: This drawback is a good choice for an attack that is still an attack with a weapon, representing precision or a telegraphing windup.

Overpowering Effort (Effort)
Your maneuver requires all of your attention, leaving you vulnerable to your opponents attacks.
   Modifier: Until the start of your next turn, all attacks made against you are made with Advantage, and you suffer disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Usage: This drawback works well in place of Opportunity Attack, especially for ranged attacks. It is also good for maneuvers that leave the attacker in an awkward position.

Overwhelming Effort (Effort)
Your maneuver requires so much effort that you must throw yourself fully into it.
   Modifier: After attempting your maneuver, whether or not it is successful, you fall prone in your current space.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Usage: This drawback works for daredevil maneuvers that require leaps or acrobatics to complete. A character could attempt a wild charge by leaping out a window onto a foe, gaining extra damage or initiating a grapple, but falling prone in the process.

Reduced Damage (Damage)
Your maneuver gives up some damage for more accuracy.
   Modifier: If your attack hits, roll damage and apply your modifiers normally, but then half the result. Alternatively, your maneuver could give up your weapon die or your ability modifier to damage, if it is in the same realm as half damage and the DM allows it.
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Usage: This drawback works well to represent maneuvers which rely upon accuracy over power, or maneuvers which do not utilize your weapon in the process. You may build a knockdown effect that still deals your Strength modifier in damage, but gives up the damage of your weapon, such as a shoulder smash or other unarmed attack.
   Special: Half damage is a simple modifier, but dealing only Weapon die or only Ability modifier makes great sense in many situations. Remember that -5 to attack can be applied as +5 to damage easily with the maneuver system, so the Reduced Damage drawback should reduce damage by at least 5. This drawback could be abused by characters with low ability modifiers or who use small weapons.

Reflective Attack (Opportunity)
Your maneuver involves a test of skill that is easily reversed if you should fail.
   Modifier: If you fail to complete your maneuver, whether you miss the attack or your opponent makes their opposed check or saving throw, you instead must make any saving throws or opposed ability checks normally associated with the maneuver to avoid this fate. If you fail, or if the maneuver allows no save or check, your foe makes an attack against you using the maneuver's drawbacks (ignoring opportunity drawbacks). If they succeed, you suffer the maneuver's full effect (including damage).
   Rank: Reduce the rank of your maneuver by 1.
   Usage: This drawback represents maneuvers that can be turned around on you. A disarm or a sunder attempt could result in your weapon falling or taking damage. A trip or a grapple could result in you being tripped or grappled in return.
   Special: As an opportunity drawback, it cannot be applied to ranged attacks.

Maneuver Building Guidelines
(To come; one guideline I may suggest is to have the DM determine drawbacks for off the cuff maneuvers so they aren't chosen specifically to min-max in a given situation.)

Variant Critical Hits
(Critical Hits are double damage in the standard system; technically, they double damage dice, but as this favors spellcasters and rogues, I'm houseruling it to a straight double damage, as it is easier to math too. Standard Damage is worth 10 points; a typical attack is 1d8+5, the Bonus Damage maneuver at 10 points adds +10 damage, and the Effects only Drawback is worth 10 points. As a variant to standard critical hits, I propose allowing the player to choose to add a 10 point effect, chosen at the time of scoring the crit. This makes critical hits more dynamic, and helps represent how lucky strikes can do unique things. A table could be used to roll on for random critical effects as well. Drawbacks could possibly be used, but only the Defense and Effort drawbacks would really fit.)

Signature Move [Feat]
(A few feats in the base system offer things that resemble feats. Grappler allows grapple checks to pin, and both Great Weapon Master and Sharpshooter allow one to take -5 to hit for +10 damage. My thought is the Signature Move feat allows the player to build two maneuvers that balance to 0 or -5 to hit, but the penalty for the maneuver is further modified. Either it will come with a built in reduction of 5, or it will half an effect's penalty; both of these balance against Grappler, Great Weapon Master, and Sharpshooter, but I'm not sure which will be more balanced (as a 5 reduction would allow someone to apply knockdown to every attack, but a half reduction could allow for a very big maneuver to be built. I originally had this feat in 3rd Edition to mimic how the Improved X combat maneuver feats were balanced, like Improved Trip and Improved Sunder.)

I think the biggest problem when porting a maneuver system designed for 3e over to 5e is that 3e did not include the idea of bounded accuracy while 5e does, which changes the math significantly. I contend that some of these penalties are probably too big for 3e, even (I mean, -30, really? You're only rolling a d20!) but when your entire bonus increase from level 1 to level 20 is only four, then a -5 penalty is going to be a much bigger deal and have a significant negative effect on the usability of these mechanics. A -10 is pretty much crippling, and penalties of -20 and -30 are just a joke.

Of course, reducing the penalty via introducing drawbacks can mitigate this somewhat, but... what's the point, then? With the size of the penalties relative to the attack bonuses you're expected to have in 5e, you might as well say every maneuver requires drawbacks and avoid the weird math with penalties. Additionally, if the use of drawbacks is left up to the DM, it could lead to inconsistency, confusion, and slow play down as the DM has to think all this through. If players are allowed to choose their own drawbacks, it'll probably slow play down too, and could lead to an odd sort of min-maxing. For one thing, due to the non-stacking nature of disadvantage, if you're going to get slapped with one anyway, it seems like doing a maneuver all the time is a no-brainer. As another example, you could tack "Opportunity Attack, Total" onto a ranged attack-- where opponents probably won't have much of a chance to hit you anyway-- and mitigate -15 worth of penalties. That's already big in 3e, and it's fairly ridiculous in 5e because of bounded accuracy.

I don't really like Bonus Damage. It's re-introducing Power Attack into a system that supposedly doesn't need it any more-- or at least the idea behind bounded accuracy was that you didn't get massive to-hit bonuses so the idea of trading them for damage wasn't a thing you needed to do any more. Or something. Bounded accuracy doesn't actually work, so maybe it actually is needed.

Ignore Cover seems pointless. If the penalty is worse than the cover penalty, you'd never do it, and if it's not worse than the cover penalty, you'd always do it.

So, yeah. I don't want to be completely negative here because I like the idea of combat maneuver systems a lot. I just don't see this one working very well in practice.

I did state that you cannot use a maneuver while you're suffering from disadvantage, so that issue is out.

I could adjust the math so that rather than seeing the actual penalty, you'll have "rank" numbers and disadvantages would reduce the rank. Guidelines would say to only have final maneuvers totaling to Rank 0 (-0 attack) or Rank 1 (-5 attack).

I also did say that you can't add opportunity attacks to ranged attacks.

Power Attack is in 5E; it's in the Great Weapon Fighter and Sharpshooter feats, which allow -5 to hit for +10 damage.

I do agree that Ingnore Cover is a strange one; I left it in for discussion, as it was in the previous one. Again, no one is going to take the maneuver with the listed attack penalty (unless, maybe, you're shooting at someone who has total cover and thus can't be targeted to begin with); you're going to throw some drawbacks on it. As there is a feat for "ignore 1/2 and 3/4ths cover", I don't want it to compete with that too much.

And thanks for the reply. I don't mind negative criticism, but I did address much of what you brought up in the post.

Quote from: XeviatI did address much of what you brought up in the post.

I'll admit I missed some of the details, which is mostly my fault for skimming, but some text could probably be cleared up; the "Ranged Attacks and Maneuvers" doesn't mention anything about opportunity attacks, for example. However, I feel like the fundamental problem remains, which is that a maneuver system based around huge penalties in a system ostensibly designed around keeping the growth of bonuses in check is an idea that just is never going to work very well.

Some system of "maneuver points" or "ranks" could work better, like what you've suggested in variant critical hits, only something that is allowable for every attack. Another option is that you "pay" damage done, rather than chance of hitting, which has a certain sensible verisimilitude too-- it's not actually harder to hit the enemy, but you're just focusing on doing something else other than doing damage.

I think the trick is getting maneuvers that are worth their opportunity cost to use some of the time, but aren't so good you're going to use them all the time. It's something I've ranted about before, and it's something I don't feel a lot of systems do very well. The idea of everything being balanced around adding rider effects in exchange for drawbacks has a certain appeal to it, although I do have to say that I tend to prefer reductionist maneuver systems so the sheer number of options for effects and drawbacks make my eyes glaze over a bit, but that's just a personal preference. Not having too much analysis paralysis at the table is a generally good thing, though.

I'd suggest to try to whittle the list down, and maybe think of a few key things that you want characters to be able to do, and focus maneuvers on doing each one of them. For example, in Asura (which isn't d20, so the mathematical relevance is limited, but might still be worth discussing when considering general design principles) the basic maneuvers are to add a bonus or inflict a penalty, to deny an enemy action, or to move an enemy around. Everything in the game flows from these core maneuvers-- most status conditions boil down to just a penalty, and things like grappling or disarming are just denying different sorts of actions, after all. This may be too reductionist for D&D, but thinking of things in the most simple terms possible might help.

In the opening paragraph for drawbacks, it says "they cannot utilize drawbacks with the Opportunity Attack keyword".

For paying damage done, that's what the damage drawbacks are for.

Also, you keep referencing "Bounded Accuracy" from 5E's development time, but I'm not entirely sure you've been playing D&D5th. Yes, the number growth is smaller than it used to be, but it's not non-existent. Most PCs will have their attack bonuses increase by +6 over the course of their career, and magic items can boost that another +1 to +4. Magic items aren't entirely assumed by the system math, but they are assumed in the treasure math and the starting characters after 1st level rules. So, that's around +9 to attack from 1st to 20th level. Additionally, the way the CR system works, you are probably going to be fighting a lot of lower level opponents as levels go up, and monster AC averages 13 (what it starts at) all the way up to CR 3. Monster AC grows by the same +6 that player attack grows without magic items, and it scales at the same time as player magic items, but again, if your group tends towards party of 4 vs. 4 or more opponents, you'll see a lot more of those lower ACs. Also, many monsters have even lower ACs, so the chances of having a decent attack bonus over the monster (especially with buffs from the party) is pretty good.

There is already a -5 attack for +10 damage mechanic built into 2 of the feats, so attack penalties aren't unmanageable or unheard of in this edition.

I feel you barely skimmed and are being incredibly dismissive. Your suggestions are basically what a lot of the system already boils down to. I'm working on presenting it in tiers, rather than attack penalties, but the attack penalties will come back in the drawbacks. I'll also post some example maneuvers, as well as spells they compare to, as the "design your own spells" system in this edition is pretty decent.

Quote from: XeviatI feel you barely skimmed and are being incredibly dismissive.

I did read the vast majority of what you wrote, and even went back and re-read quite a bit of it. I've already admitted I did make a mistake because of skimming, but the thing about ranged maneuvers and opportunity attacks is not mentioned in the "Ranged Attacks and Maneuvers" section (despite being quite relevant to both ranged attacks and maneuvers) nor is it mentioned in the actual description of the "Opportunity Attack" drawback-- in my opinion the most logical places to look-- so I still think the information was not laid out as well as it could have been and that's part of why I missed some of it.

As for being dismissive, I'll freely acknowledge I don't particularly like this idea in its present form. However, I've actually put thought into this and tried to be constructive in my criticism. Anyway, let me try again.

I'll give you that I only have a couple of sessions of play experience with 5e. While I don't agree that a lack of play experience is necessarily an obstacle to mathematical analysis of a system, what if I simply defer to your experience and take your word for it on the numbers? Even if I just take your +9, I still stand by my original opinion that a -10 penalty is just too big when dealing with a system where your whole gain from level 1 to level 20 is +9. For that matter, independent of level gain or system balance, a penalty of -10 is half the range of your RNG, which is a d20, and that is a pretty severe penalty at any level. So, my point was and is that applying huge penalties to the attack roll just encourages drawbacks because drawbacks apply equally unworkably huge bonuses to offset those penalties, thus making them the only way to actually perform maneuvers and have any hope of succeeding-- and if that's the point, well, that's fine, but then if the point is to take drawbacks, then the idea of taking drawbacks should be the currency and the balance point, not these unworkably huge attack penalties.

If you just don't agree with that, fine, but I think it's a substantive critique and it's not at all fair to call it dismissive. I got the sense you want to move away from a system based on attack penalties, anyway.

Quote from: XeviatYour suggestions are basically what a lot of the system already boils down to.

Not as I see it, but this could just be you seeing what the system "boils down to" more clearly than me because you wrote it, so what you see as obvious and redundant, I see as something that needs saying based on the current version of the text posted above. For example, I'm aware that reduced damage is one of the currently existing drawbacks; when I suggested the idea of paying damage done as a cost for maneuvers I meant as a complete alternative to the current system. Maybe this isn't an important distinction to you, but it was to me.

Anyway, blunt as my criticism might be, I didn't and don't mean to offend, so I'll shut up now.

I don't want you to shut up. I was hostile in my response to perceived dismisiveness, and I'm sorry. I should have been more clear that I never intended someone to actually attempt a maneuver without using drawbacks; as that is what I intend, I'm retooling it with "ranks". "-5 to hit" and "attack with disadvantage" are drawbacks that will exist, as those are both concepts that exist within the game.

I'm flat out removing opportunity attack as a drawback, as it is simply not a concept that is present in the edition (opportunity attacks are triggered by one and only one thing). Only having "half damage" and "no damage" as drawbacks would severely limit my options on the types of maneuvers that can be built, so I'd rather not do that. Some maneuvers should be hard to pull off.

As for the attack bonuses in the system, there are many monsters with ACs in the 10 to 11 range; without going and referencing everything, I'm fairly sure most of them are low level, though. Player attack typically starts at +5, while monster AC typically starts at 13. They both scale evenly, without any extra AC to make up for potential player magic items. The system thus tends towards a 65% hit rate in the low levels, up to a potential 80%+ hit rate at high levels (from the extra +1 to +3 to hit from magic weapons), so -5 to hit and/or disadvantage aren't insurmountable.

Here's a sample maneuver for a balance point:

Push (current, existing attack option): In place of attack, strength (athletics) vs. str (athletics) or dex (acrobatics) check, successful check and the target is knocked prone.

Knockdown (constructed maneuver): Attack with disadvantage, if you hit, deal standard weapon damage and the target must make a Strength save or be knocked prone. (prone with disadvantage and save drawbacks). This is a wild swing with follow through to knock one's opponent down.

Trip (constructed maneuver): Attack, if you hit, deal half weapon damage (I'd prefer only Str damage, but half is easier to balance) and the target must make a Str save or be knocked prone (prone with half damage and save drawbacks). This is a directed attack to the legs, a less vulnerable spot (thus, less damage).

Quote from: XeviatI don't want you to shut up.

You asked for it. :grin:

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you were saying, but I don't agree with the idea that "it's a concept that exists within the game" should be used to determine if a drawback is valid or not, because every edition of every RPG ever is going to include some bad ideas and mechanics that don't mesh, and this is a good chance to sort them out. For example, I think that if you present a direct choice between "-5 to hit" and "attack with disadvantage" you're offering an overly fiddly choice that will drive optimizers nuts, so I don't think those should both exist.

Anyway, do you feel the current 5e manuevers-- that is, the RAW ones, that you're using as a balance point-- are worth the opportunity cost? This is something 3e mostly did poorly and 4e generally did ok, so I'm not sure how they fare in 5e. For example, when using a push attack, is knocking an enemy prone a significant enough debuff that it's worth your entire attack? If it is, then I think the way you've set up trip is promising. You give up half your damage to make a sort of half trip attack, which has the disadvantage of being conditional on hitting, but also lets you still make some sort of attack and do a maneuver effect, too.

I stand by my view that paying damage done is a promising way to go, supported by the way you've set up trip. This makes sense-- you're essentially trading one form of effect (HP loss) for another form of effect (status or tactical advantage or whatever) on a hit. While you might be right that only having "half damage" and "no damage" as drawbacks would severely limit your options when constructing maneuvers, I also stand by my view that a reductionist approach is probably better so I wonder how many maneuvers you'll really need to construct. That said, there are always other damage options like 25% or 75% (although the math could get to be more trouble than it's worth) or, depending on how you want to interact with the scaling of damage, you could always pay a direct amount of damage done rather than a percentage.

Knocking your opponent prone is worth enough to give up your entire attack. I saw it used very well in a combat two sessions ago. The group was fighting a suit of animated armor. It caught the paladin, the group's sole high ACer, in a doorway. After taking a swing at it and realizing that no one else could get a good shot, she pushed it back away from the door and followed after, letting everyone in. It's high AC meant it was difficult to hit, even for her (everyone's primary attacks clustered around +5, and it had an AC 18). It had two attacks, and was steadily bringing her hp down.

So she knocked it prone; Push is an athletics vs. athletics check, not an attack vs. AC check. She was able to push it down, and the party ranger and druid stepped into melee.

Everyone's damage was basically the same (1d6+3 and 1d8+3). So she gave up her damage to grant advantage to everyone else's attacks.

They went from having 3 attacks for 7.5 damage at a 40% chance to hit to having 2 attacks for 7.5 damage at a 64% chance to hit; that's an average of 9 vs. 9.6. It was a small gain, but one she felt was good (having not done the math at the table) because it felt like it significantly boosted their chances to score hits. If the group had had a heavy hitter, like a rogue or great weapon warrior, the trade off would have been even better. It's not the best in every situation (if it's one on one or even if it's 2 on 1 and your partner doesn't have a significantly higher damage than you), but maneuvers shouldn't be good in every situation.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree on whether other drawbacks are appropriate. As I said, the game already has a -5 to hit mechanic in the game in two feats which give +10 damage as the trade off. They are widely seen as some of the best feats, as they give you something to do when you have advantage against an opponent who is already easy to hit. It also easily models taking better aim to go for a weak spot. I only have disadvantage and -5 to hit among my drawbacks because I personally really like disadvantage as a mechanic, but I also am going to have a "signature move" feat for building slightly priced down maneuvers and I'd like it to be able to model existing feats. (I did the same in 3E, where I was able to model the "Improved X" feats).

I did end up using "trip" in the last session; attack for half damage, then str save or prone. I like half damage for that because the legs are a less vital location. But, again, there are many maneuver effects that are simply too good to just replace for "no damage" that I'd like to be able to model. Perhaps I can bake in saves to the maneuver effects, which would have the same effect; then -5 attack, disadvantage, and no or half damage could be the only drawbacks.

On second thought, paying direct damage done could be very interesting. It would save the potential issue of dagger users being better at maneuvers then great weapon users. It would allow for "variant criticals" very easily as well. I'd have to look over the spell lists to find example spells (like blindness/deafness) to see points where the designers think they're balanced, and then decide whether knowing a spell is a similar opportunity cost as a feat ...

Hmmm ... thanks for the idea.

Actually, after a quick analysis of the numbers, I can't find a situation where it's ever mathematically preferable to choose a -5 penalty over taking disadvantage on a roll. So I'd say directly choosing between these two options is a non-choice because -5 is just objectively worse.

I'm glad you like the damage thing, though, and I agree that it could work well with variant critical hits.

(http://onlinedungeonmaster.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/Advantage_Disadvantage_Probabilities.png)

Based on the die roll needed, here's what "approximately" disadvantage does to you compared to penalties to hit:

1: Nothing, unless a 1 is an auto-miss (like on an attack roll), then see 2.
2: -0.95
3: -1.8
4: -2.55
5: -3.2
6: -3.75
7: -4.2
8: -4.55
9: -4.8
10: -4.95
11: -5
12: -4.95
13: -4.8
14: -4.55
15: -4.2
16: -3.75
17: -3.2
18: -2.55
19: -1.8
20: -0.95

Rounding, it's roughly equivalent to -5 at "need to roll" 8-14.

But if your argument is that it is uneven, I'll give you that. Outside of "need to roll 11", disadvantage is less disadvantageous than -5 to hit; if you normally needed a 16 to hit, -5 to hit means you can't hit it at all. I think it might be fine to leave advantage/disadvantage to conditions.

The only thing I can find in the game similar to a "take disadvantage for something" is the barbarian's Reckless Attack, where you grant advantage to your enemy's attacks against you in order to gain advantage on your attacks. As -5 attack for a maneuver is in the game, and disadvantage for a maneuver isn't, I'll concede the point and pull disadvantage from the drawbacks.

While I'm cleaning some things up, I'd like some help looking over these conditions and ranking them. I've already ranked them, but I need another eye.

Rank 1
Grant Advantage to attacks
Impose Disadvantage to attacks
Impose Disadvantage to checks
Slowed: Target's speed is reduced by 1/2.

Rank 2 (equivalent to an attack)
Frightened: Disadvantage on ability checks and attack rolls while source of fear is within line of sight, can't willingly move closer to the source of its fear.
Grappled: Speed becomes 0; ends if grappler is incapacitated or if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler.
Prone: Must crawl at half speed (standing costs half speed), disadvantage on attack rolls, attack rolls against it have advantage if made within 5 feet, or disadvantage otherwise.
Deafened: Can't hear, automatically fails any ability check that requires hearing.
Poisoned: Disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks.
Charmed: Can't attack the charmer, and the charmer has advantage on interaction checks.

Rank 3
Blinded: Can't see, automatically fails any ability check requiring sight; attack rolls against the creature have advantage, and the creature's attack rolls have disadvantage.
Restrained: Speed becomes 0, attack rolls against the creature have advantage, disadvantage to attack, disadvantage on dexterity saves.
Incapacitated: Can't take actions or reactions (but can still move).

Rank 4
Stunned: Incapacitated, speed becomes 0, can speak only falteringly, automatically fails str and dex saves, attack rolls against it have advantage.

Rank 5
Paralyzed: Incapacitated, speed becomes 0, and can't speak, automatically fails str and dex saves, attacks against the creature have advantage, any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if within 5 feet of the creature. (stunned plus auto crit)
Unconscious: incapacitated, can't move or speak, unaware, drops what it's holding, falls prone, automatically fails str and dex saves, attacks against the creature have advantage, any attack that hits the creature is a critical hit if within 5 feet of the creature. (paralized plus unaware, disarmed, and prone)