The Campaign Builder's Guild

The new Kishar website (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home) is up.

[note]For a while now I have been working on revising and reworking my main setting, Kishar (my only current setting).

Oh, and credit for the banner goes to Ishmayl.

I strongly recommend viewing the site in Firefox.  The menu is problematic in IE7, though I'm working on it.

If you find yourself confused on any points, find typos, bad links (especially please), inconsistencies, or other issues, please let me know.[/note]

I am curious what people like and would like to see in more detail, and what things perhaps need a little work.

Post all comments here.

[ooc]Not sure where to start?
On the main page of the site, at the bottom is a tour that should give you a good idea where to begin.  There's now a fair amount of information up, so this pointer should help.

Kishar is a semi-dark fantasy world, drawn from mythology and folklore.  Many of themes and concepts come from Hinduism or Indian philosophy.  Most of these ideas are explained in the Cosmology page, which is why I recommend starting there.

All the various supernatural creatures (animas) come from various folklores around the world, appearing in whatever area of the world corresponds to their point of origin.[/ooc]


Where did this come from?
Curious about the inspiration for a name or country?  I'll try to explain a little below.

Agria
Agria is mostly inspired by northern Africa.  The name I just made up with a word that "sounded" right for the source of inspiration.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Kerm [/td]
[td] The ancient empire of Mali [/td]
[td] modification of â,¬Å"Kurufaâ,¬Â? [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Bregia [/td]
[td] savanna [/td]
[td] Plain in Arthurian legend [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Simbel [/td]
[td] Ancient Egypt[/td]
[td] Abu Simbel in Egypt [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Kush [/td]
[td] Cush and the tribes of the Sahara [/td]
[td] ancient country [/td]
[/tr]
 [/table]

Asaland
Asaland â,¬' far eastern Asia.  The name comes from Norse mythology.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ayutthaya [/td]
[td] Thailand [/td]
[td] former capital of Thailand [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Bana [/td]
[td] Philippines [/td]
[td] Derived from Banaue (terraces) [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Camda [/td]
[td] Cambodia[/td]
[td] Derived from Cambodia [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Guiyu[/td]
[td] Ancient China [/td]
[td] Made up to sound right?[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Gogur [/td]
[td] Korea [/td]
[td] Derived from Goguryeo [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Sundaland [/td]
[td] Indonesia/Malaysia[/td]
[td] Real name [/td]
[/tr]

[tr]
[td] Taprobana [/td]
[td] Tibet [/td]
[td] phantom island and real island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Terza [/td]
[td] Japan [/td]
[td] Made up. [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Xionga [/td]
[td] Mongolia [/td]
[td] Derived from Xiongnu [/td]
[/tr]
 [/table]

Hyperborea
The north pole and Greenland.  Name comes from Greek myth.

Kalakti
South America.  Derived from Kalakmul.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Teoti[/td]
[td] Aztec civilization [/td]
[td] Derived from Teotihuacán [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Zacoba[/td]
[td] Maya civilization [/td]
[td] I donâ,¬,,¢t remember; thought I had a reason [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Tollan [/td]
[td] Central America[/td]
[td] Name of Aztec city [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Muiz[/td]
[td] Columbia and Venezuela [/td]
[td] Derived from the Muiscas[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Vilcaana [/td]
[td] Inca Empire[/td]
[td] Derived from Vilcabamba [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Valdiv [/td]
[td] Indonesia/Malaysia[/td]
[td] Derived from Valdivia [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Tamaochan [/td]
[td] Western South America[/td]
[td] mythical location in Mesoamerica [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Mictlan [/td]
[td] Land of lamiae [/td]
[td] Aztec myth [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Pacar [/td]
[td] Chile [/td]
[td] Derived from Pacaritambo [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Huar [/td]
[td] southern South America [/td]
[td] Derived from Huari culture [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Aymar [/td]
[td] Southern South America [/td]
[td] Aymar [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Chima [/td]
[td] Southern South America [/td]
[td] Derived from Chimar[/td]
[/tr]
 [/table]


Lemuria
Lemuria is inspired by the mythological land of the same name.

Rapan is inspired by Rapa Nui (Easter Island), which is sometimes associated with Lemuria.  


Midgard
Midgard is inspired by Europe and the Middle East.  The name is from Norse myth.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Bjarmaland [/td]
[td] Early Russia [/td]
[td] Norse mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Celtic Isles [/td]
[td] British Isles [/td]
[td] pretty obvious [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Cercet (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Cercet) [/td]
[td] Scythia/Sarmatia [/td]
[td] Derived from the Cercetae tribe [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Daga [/td]
[td] Romania [/td]
[td] Derived from Roman Dacia [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Elysium (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Elysium) [/td]
[td] Rome [/td]
[td] Greek mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ersony (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Ersony) [/td]
[td] Greece [/td]
[td] Made up; Hellas too heavily tied to real-world Greece [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Hesper (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Hesper) [/td]
[td] Italy [/td]
[td] Derived from ancient Greek name for Italy [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Hunaland  (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Hunaland)[/td]
[td] Early Germany [/td]
[td] Norse mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Lyonesse [/td]
[td] Early France[/td]
[td] British legend [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Nostir [/td]
[td] Scandinavia [/td]
[td] Made up, with the intent it would sound â,¬Å"Norseâ,¬Â [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Reidgotaland [/td]
[td] Poland [/td]
[td] Norse mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Nagryth (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Nagryth) [/td]
[td] proto-Celtic culture influenced by Germanic cultures[/td]
[td] I completely made this one up [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Thule [/td]
[td] Iceland [/td]
[td] Ancient European legendary island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Valador (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Valador) [/td]
[td] (loosely) ancient Phoenicia [/td]
[td] A real name, but not related to anything [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Jotunheim [/td]
[td] Siberia; Jotunheim [/td]
[td] Norse mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Nazca [/td]
[td] Nazca (Peru); I know itâ,¬,,¢s out of place [/td]
[td] A real place! [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Nidafjoll [/td]
[td] Nidafjoll [/td]
[td] Norse mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Naraka [/td]
[td] A land of darkness where a demon rules [/td]
[td] Hindu mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Shambala [/td]
[td] Nepal [/td]
[td] Tibetan mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Kirahr [/td]
[td] India [/td]
[td] Named after Kirran, which is derived from Indian name [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ahlia [/td]
[td] Arabia, Persia, Mesopotamia [/td]
[td] It just sounded right [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Antia [/td]
[td] Anatolia [/td]
[td] Derived from Anatolia [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ophir [/td]
[td] Ophir [/td]
[td] Jewish mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Airyana [/td]
[td] Jordan/Israel [/td]
[td] Iranian mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Lanka [/td]
[td] Island of the rakshasa [/td]
[td] Hindu mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Gore [/td]
[td] Spain [/td]
[td] Celtic mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Momur [/td]
[td] Fae island [/td]
[td] British? Folktale [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Baltia [/td]
[td] Legendary island [/td]
[td] Roman mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Ogygia [/td]
[td] Crete [/td]
[td] Greek mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Icaria [/td]
[td] Mediterranean island [/td]
[td] real island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Bospor [/td]
[td] Crimean island nation [/td]
[td] Kingdom of Bosporus [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Buyan [/td]
[td] Buyan [/td]
[td] Russian mythology [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Antillia [/td]
[td] Antillia; Isles of the Blessed [/td]
[td] Phantom island; Greek myth [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Atlantis [/td]
[td] Atlantis [/td]
[td] Greek mythology [/td]
[/tr]
 [/table]

Mahimata
Central and South Africa.  The name comes from Indian mythology name for a mother goddess.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Kongo [/td]
[td] Congo [/td]
[td] Derived from Congo[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Libi [/td]
[td] Lybia [/td]
[td] Greek mythology/real country [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Genna[/td]
[td] South Africa[/td]
[td] Derived from Ghana Empire [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Zanj[/td]
[td] South African nation [/td]
[td] Arab name for eastern Africa [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Awkar [/td]
[td] Ancient Ghana [/td]
[td] Real region of Ghana [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Aksu[/td]
[td] Ancient Ethiopia[/td]
[td] Derived from Aksum [/td]
[/tr]
[/table]


Muspelheim
Muspelheim is inspired by the Norse mythological land of the same name.

Niflheim
Lemuria is inspired by the south pole.  Name comes from Norse myth.

Norumbega
North America.  The name comes from a legendary settlement there.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Saguenay[/td]
[td] South/Central North America [/td]
[td] Legendary country [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Drogeo [/td]
[td] Northern NA [/td]
[td] Phantom island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Estotiland [/td]
[td] Canada[/td]
[td] Fake land formerly on maps [/td]
[/tr]
 [tr]
[td] Bacalao[/td]
[td] Newfoundland [/td]
[td] Phantom island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Groclant [/td]
[td] Groclant [/td]
[td] Phantom island [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Elekax[/td]
[td] Alaska[/td]
[td] Derived from original name of Alaska [/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

Terraust
Australia.  The name comes from ancient geography.
[td] Nation [/td]
[td] Inspiration [/td]
[td] Name[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Sanesian Islands [/td]
[td] Polynesia [/td]
[td] Made up [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Zelandia [/td]
[td] New Zealand [/td]
[td] poetic name for New Zealand [/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td] Dougherty[/td]
[td] Part of Australia[/td]
[td] phantom island [/td]
[/tr]
[/table]

The Wasteland
The name comes from Celtic mythology.  The names of the prior kingdoms there, also come from mythology.

Classy-looking website. After a quick perusal, I'd say the first thing you need is a map with darker lines. Once you set up an entire site for a campaign world, the map becomes an important feature, and the one you have is so light (on my screen, anyway) that its hard to see anything but the text and the white background.

Quote from: Epic MeepoClassy-looking website.

Thanks.  I found a website a better way of organizing content than a static layout.  But I cannot take credit for all of it's design.  I received help from brainface and another friend from an old gaming group.

Quote from: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=369048Epic Campaign Maps[/url] thread on WotC's Campaigns board.  Khoras (http://www.khoras.net/) also has some awesome maps.  

Ive recently been incorperating norse mythology into my campaign world and I would be interested to know more about how you have incorperated the Yggdrasil into your world. Where is it located? how big is it? Is it actually the tree that shelters the world(s)? or is it a magical tree located somewhere in the world?

Quote from: KalinIve recently been incorperating norse mythology into my campaign world and I would be interested to know more about how you have incorperated the Yggdrasil into your world. Where is it located? how big is it? Is it actually the tree that shelters the world(s)? or is it a magical tree located somewhere in the world?

Thanks for the question, Kalin.  Norse mythology is one of the more interesting ones, and I suppose I've more of that than some others, though I still probably draw more from Hinduism and Gnosticism.

To the specific question:

Yggdrasil is a physical tree on Kishar, located on Atlantis.  Atlantis was submerged beneath the waves since the fall of the Encaran Empire 10,000 years ago, but the Omega used an ancient sidhe magical device to resurface it.

The Encarans found the tree and felt its power, and thus built a temple around it, and their capital city (Ys) around that.  At the base of the tree it is hollow, with a cavern for the Star of Life.  One would have to descend fairly deep into the earth to reach it.

The tree stands nearly 700 feet above ground, though it may sometimes appear somewhat smaller, but its roots run much deeper, stretch far physically, and farther when seen metaphorically as energy reaching throughout the planet.  It is a physical representation of the life of the planet and the Goddess, and thus when things are well, it is at its full height and well in bloom, but may dwindle in times when the planet is weakened.

The tree is not, however, as in Norse cosmology, a cradle upon which all worlds rest.  It has nothing to do with planar layout or anything like that.  As stated, I do add some new twists.

Good luck with your own interpretation.

Well, I replaced the map, making it darker.  It kind of adds shadows behind the text, but I think it's still much clearer.

I may still work on the map section a little.

I also added a little more formatting updates.

Other suggestions?

Some of the names on your map are still hard to read, especially the names of the islands.

Quote from: Phoenix KnightAtlantis was submerged beneath the waves since the fall of the Encaran Empire 10,000 years ago, but the Omega used an ancient sidhe magical device to resurface it.

Good luck with your own interpretation.
[/quote]

thanks, and sorry about all the questions, but i really like your setting and would like to know more

QuoteClassy-looking website.

Agreed. Possibly even snazzy.

Oh, Kalin, I appreciate questions.  Besides the encouragement of someone showing interest, they force me to think about aspects of the setting.

I'll try to answer them in order.

I agree the map is far from perfect.  A side effect of darkening the image was that the text became harder to read both because shadows popped up around it and because the lines it sits on top of were now closer to its color.  Eventually I'd like to have a wonderful, full color map, as I mentioned in an earlier post.  For the more immediate future, I may try to work to darkening the lines in photoshop before having the text layers.  Computer graphics art is not easy for me, though I might want to learn eventually.

Atlantis was the center of the Encaran Empire and the site of their capital, Ys.  I hope to add history of the world to the site eventually.  However, the jist of it is that they were the first race, established an empire that ruled Kishar for 6000 years, but were destroyed when the fae rebelled against them and drew the other races to their side.  Terrible fae magic destroyed Atlantis, causing the entire island-continent to sink beneath the waves (though it is possible that this was not the intent of the fae); this effectively spelled the begining of the end for the encarans.  Following the war, they were subjected to genocide which only ended when the fae believed the entire race destroyed.  Encaran ruins still litter Kishar across the world, remanants of a more advanced age.  The empire fell about 10,000 years ago.

Can Yggdrasil be harnessed by anything?  Not directly, though I suppose in a sense, ley lines flow from it, and they can be harnessed.  See "The World" on the site, the same area that mentions Yggdrasil.

The encaran temple does still exist around Yggdrasil, though it is in ruins.  The real wonder is that it survived at all after 10,000 years beneath the sea.

No one directly protects the tree, though, until recently it was at the bottom of the ocean, anyway.  The tree is incredibly thick and resilient, so it would be hard to permanently harm.  I suppose if one tried, they would attract the attention of Ladon, the primal dragon guardian of the Goddess (he doesn't live on Atlantis, but he'd probably come in a hurry).


Thanks, brainface, both for the compliment and for your help in setting it up.

Okay, well, first of all, very nice website for it. well made, well layed out and looks pretty.

I like the quotes added in all over the place (i enjoy those things. they add a nice touch of extra realism to a setting). Haven't had a chance to read through the fiction yet, but hopefully i'll have a chance soon.

I like the map. It can be a bit difficult to view, cause of it's size, but that's a minor thing. More importantly i like the fact that it's heavily inspired b names of places from different earth mythologies and these places somewhat corespond the the real life locations of the people who beleieve them. i had considered something like this for a setting of mine, too.

...and i have run out of time, but will continue this later.

Quote from: Captain ObviousOkay, well, first of all, very nice website for it. well made, well layed out and looks pretty.

I like the quotes added in all over the place (i enjoy those things. they add a nice touch of extra realism to a setting). Haven't had a chance to read through the fiction yet, but hopefully i'll have a chance soon.[/quote]
Yeah, the quotations are to kind of give people a feel for how characters in the setting might think.  Right now, I only have a very short piece up (the same one that was previously on my hold Kishar post here).

Incorporating various aspects of mythology and folklore became an increasing focus as the project grew.  I worked harder to incorporate more of them, and later to name almost all new stuff after mythical or historical places.  Also, you'll see the names for almost all animas (certainly all major ones except maybe a few fae) come from some mythology.  I hope to have information on specific animas soon - I've been working on that all day, but it's a long process.

The map needs work, but I think having a mediocre map is better than no map.

I look foward to seeing your thoughts on the setting when you have more time to look it over.

Okay, I now have a new maps page.  I spent quite a while on it, but the map is cleaned up a lot, and hopefully will be easier to read.  It is still just a broad political map, with no color of terrain, but I'll worry about that in the future.  I want to focus on other content first.

I have the map in two sizes now, the original full size (about the size of four pieces of printer paper), and half size.  Also a smaller map of a few of the continents.  I have cut outs for the other continents, and may post them later.  But Midgard and Khaltesh are those most standard stories would take place in, as that covers Europe and Asia style countries (you can also see Agria on the Midgard map).

Fairly significant updates.

First of all, I have a review badge (thanks ElDo!)

I added quite a bit more detail about the structure of angels (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/angel) and archons (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/archon).  For any of following it, I changed the chief archon from Ma'at to Shamash (Shamshiel), for semi-complex reasons, but partly because he could be more easily equated a being actually called an archon in some religious texts.

Theres also anima pages for a few new types of anima, such the djinn (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/djinn).

I also added a cast page, which lists a brief description of characters in the setting.  At the moment, it's just the named Primordials and a few aeons.  The name links to a more detailed bio.  There's only a lot of detail for a few, like Mithra and Theletus, but there should be enough to give the general idea of who a character is and where they fit into the cosmic hierarchy.  I am, of course, intrested to hear if there are specific characters anyone would like me to write more on.

There were also a few glossary updates, and now there are links to a map for each continent (except the ones for the north and south poles).

I added a few questions from posters here to the FAQ.

Anyway, I would appreciate some input on what areas everyone would like to see more work, as well as any inconsistencies one sees.

-Happy Holidays

Looking through the long list of primordials ive noticed that you missed Loki and Kali, was that intentional or did you just miss them by accident?


Edit: I havent found any inconsistancies yet but i havent read all the new stuff yet, once i read through it all ill give you another report.

Kalin, I sent you a PM with a review badge for your many comments.

Quote from: KalinLooking through the long list of primordials ive noticed that you missed Loki and Kali, was that intentional or did you just miss them by accident?

It is intentional.  I have not quite decided what to do with those two, for different reasons.

Kali, I considering making an archdemon Primordial, for she has demonic aspects.  But the deity is a lot more complicated than that, with other aspects.  I also use most of the TriDevi stuff as variations incarnations of a mortal soul (the Alpha, the feminine half of the Omega, which is in many ways similar to the Trimurti).  Thus I may actually make Kali a historical woman, or just a metaphor.  Since all that is really the subject of The Omega Crucible (parts of which I ran as a campaign), which is what I really want to write the novels on, it's a big deal, but I don't want to get too much into it.

Loki is also complex.  Obviously he betrays the Primordials at some point, and I considered making this in the past, and thus making him a demon.  In the myth, he does so and sparks Ragnarok, but that wouldn't work well here, since that would mean he probably wouldn't be around as a Primordial.  I also considered that he be yet another aspect of Theletus (Prometheus), that would eventually betray the Conclave in order to further his schemes with humanity.  While I like this idea, it has some issues I'm still trying to work out.  Loki is certainly more malicious a trickster than the trickster figures that Theletus is usually representing, and moreover, that would mean he has two Primordial identities (if I make Loki a Primordial), which even he would be hard-pressed to pull off.  Of course, there are some similarities in the Loki myth to those of Prometheus (being chained to a rock, association with giants, defying gods, and so forth).

I wanted to go ahead and get information on the others up, without delaying while I try to figure out where these two fit in.

Hmmm... I'm not sure how to say this, but Kishar looks fairly schizophrenic to me. On one hand you have some TRoS, low-fantasy, "chop up the guards" earthly variant, and on the other you have page after page about aeons, demons, spaceships and titans.

Are there dragons?
Are dragons, sorcerers, giant jewels and continents rising from the depths low fantasy?
How much does the story of Ahriman, Proteus and Theletus impact the focus of the world? Ever?
Who is "Logan," how did he "slay" Omega, and why isn't this talked about in greater detail?

It seems like while you try to craft a setting about men, you write about gods. Are gods the center or focus of the world?

I don't want to tell you what to do, so I'll just quickly mention a personal take. If I were in the same spot, I'd either work to move the setting back to its roots and de-emphasize the supernatural or I'd cut out the old ties to a mundane-ish world and kick the divine struggle into full-focus. In a DivSet world you'd want both, but they conflict greatly, detracting, in my eyes, from the flavor of the setting. I see Kishar as highly ethocentric (ConSet/BlindSet), but with two conflicting centers. For best results, downplay one or the other. ;)


Sorry if that's a bit harsh, but I'm trying to give honest feedback. Great work on the maps, website and divine detail though! Top notch!
 -Rael

I appreciate the review, Rael.

Quote from: RaelifinHmmm... I'm not sure how to say this, but Kishar looks fairly schizophrenic to me. On one hand you have some TRoS, low-fantasy, "chop up the guards" earthly variant, and on the other you have page after page about aeons, demons, spaceships and titans.

reality[/i] of the world, which was a much grander tale that combined elements of mythologies with science fiction (in a sense, a mythology that to into account modern conceptions like the Big Bang and Chaos Theory).

We see a similar dichomoty between the fantastic ancient past (battles of cosmic beings and whatnot, as found in myths of most western cultures), and the modern world where such things are nearly gone.

More on my reasons in a moment.

QuoteAre there dragons?
Are dragons, sorcerers, giant jewels and continents rising from the depths low fantasy?

How much does the story of Ahriman, Proteus and Theletus impact the focus of the world? Ever?[/quote]Who is "Logan," how did he "slay" Omega, and why isn't this talked about in greater detail?[/quote]It seems like while you try to craft a setting about men, you write about gods. Are gods the center or focus of the world?[/quote]I don't want to tell you what to do, so I'll just quickly mention a personal take. If I were in the same spot, I'd either work to move the setting back to its roots and de-emphasize the supernatural or I'd cut out the old ties to a mundane-ish world and kick the divine struggle into full-focus. In a DivSet world you'd want both, but they conflict greatly, detracting, in my eyes, from the flavor of the setting. I see Kishar as highly ethocentric (ConSet/BlindSet), but with two conflicting centers. For best results, downplay one or the other. ;)[/quote]
It is definitely driven by a central vision (though disentangling the vision of the setting from the vision of the epic story I am telling in it is tough), so yeah ethocentric all the way (I guess ConSet, probably).  I suppose part of the vision does involve a truly complex universe where these cosmic beings are playing with men's lives - but two important points I seem to have lost along the way:
1) It's in the background.  It affects the overall world and plot a lot, but it is not the main focus.
2) People don't know about it.  Main characters in stories might discover part of the truth (hence why I needed to record and figure out what that truth was), but it's never really something men will understand.


It's not harsh; it's constructive.  I would rather hear about a weakness and fix it or consciously decided to disagree, than go ahead and never know.  Thanks very much for your insight. I will get to working on your points over the next few weeks.

If you have suggestions for drawing to focus back to human society, without my having to lose the background mythology, I'd be interested to hear that, too.

Oh, and thanks for the compliments on the site and the maps.

Yay! My fears of another "seraph incident" are banished.

I can totally understand the want of a deep history to not only the world, but the entire universe. This is certainly possible while keeping a focus on the mundane. I think the easiest way is simply to tie your mythos to men (I use the term as a truncated form of "human," for all the feminists listening). The coolest way to do so, though it would certainly require some re-writing, would be to have Teletus tell the story to a mortal. In the World of Darkness book, one of the coolest fiction blurbs is from the perspective of a man telling of his childhood meeting with a god. The god explained the nature of the universe in a circle of flame, but always you see the fragility of life through the eyes of a boy, not from an objective view of a titanic war.

Shows how much I knew about the Star of Life... 6 inches! Heh.

I'll be keeping an eye on the website. Keep up the good work,
 - Rael

Quote from: RaelifinThe coolest way to do so, though it would certainly require some re-writing, would be to have Teletus tell the story to a mortal.

Actually, I really like this idea.  I kind of started a narrative history of Kishar (it's history, not the cosmic stuff) related by an immortal that was there (Esras's Chronicles).  I stopped the project when I decided I wanted to reexamine some of the basic conceptions of the world (things like the decision to remove orcs from the setting).

I think I want an objective truth presentation (which would not appear anywhere but here in the brainstorming stages - since part of the point behind the project is also for my benefit, as the author, of recording the way things are, so I can tell how to present them), but I could also include a narrative version.  Theletus might be an interesting teller, but he is cryptic as a way of life, so I might consider some other character, possibly.

It may be a few days before I can get any update on this field, though.  I want to mull over the idea a little.

I actually got a little inspired and worked a bit on the cosmogony, incorporating your idea, Rael.  I thought of a character Prometheus (Theletus) might actually have told the story to (from a prior campaign), and so related it that way.  But I think in such a way it doesn't dilute the nature much.

Check it out (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cosmogony).

I also fixed a few broken links and typos, and added a little bit to a few cast pages.  I'll look at the other issues before too long.

I am getting ready to re-work the history of Kishar, but to do so, I need to first consider what races will populate the world.

In a way, this is part of the source of the Nature of Fantasy thread, as I am trying to consider whether I include a variety of races and still have the setting feel dark and grounded, since it is supposed to be a mytho-historical inspired setting (and there weren't lizardfolk there to the best of my knowledge).

I basically have immortal beings, called animas (spirits), which covers everything from giants, to  fae, to demons.  I have no real problem throwing stuff in the this list, 'cause it exists on the outskirts.

But for mortal races, the question becomes, can I keep the mood with all this?  The world and story is very much dominated by humanity and explores ideas such as the fate and nature of mankind.  I am torn between liking how things fit in, and wanting to focus the setting.  I can see setting up most other races as being almost monstrous, entities out in the wilderness, and thus not upsetting the feel too much.  But I'd like input on what should stay, what should go, and so forth.

Edit: I believe I have this resolved.

[spoiler=old post]For those unfamiliar with my earlier versions of Kishar, I currently have 17 mortal races.

Humanity - the focus and pretty self-explanatory

Anurans - various species of amphibians, from giant hulks, to more lithe frogmen.  I'm kind of fond of these, actually.  They're generally kind of on the fringes.

Catfolk - various subraces for all major great cats.  I found some references to cat people in some mythologies (Maori, most prominently, I believe), and I've struggled to include everything to appears mythically (one of my goals), in one form or another.

Centaurs - obviously a must from a mythology perspective.  I could make them animas, but I don't think it's really appropriate or necessary.

Dwarves - a tough one.  In Norse mythology, they would fit clearly into the anima category, being a kind of demi-god.  The original history I had (which I hope not to diverge from too much) had them as moderate players, but not major ones.

Encarans - a misnomer to call them a mortal race, since they are the lone immortal race among the mortals.  Nevertheless, they are not animas, and are, in fact, related to humans.  Also a very central race to history and the state of the world, so there's no question they are in.

Gnolls - a classic fantasy race.  I seem to recall some mythological basis for dog/hyena people, but I don't remember where.  In Kishar I was going to have them be wandering nomads in plains in Agria (similar to northern Africa), specifically Bregia.

Goblins - another obvious keep from folklore; the question, of course, is whether they should be animas, since goblin is really a more generic term for evil faerie.  I could make them Unseelie, but that makes any plotline involving a goblin army far less likely.

Insectoids - here's one I could stand losing.  Originally, I had created Kishar for a D&D campaign and was going to allow thri-kreen.  When I distanced myself from D&D and considered more seriously writing about the setting, I dropped all reference to stuff they created.  I can't remember any mythical reference to bug men, either.  They're worth keeping only if it seems worth continuing to play up the Star creating huge varieties of races.

Kobolds - Since they're in folklore, they're keepers.  Like goblins, however, they could go as fae.  In Kishar, I had originally distanced them strongly from being wicked by making them noble and even honorable members of the Eliscian Empire.  Now that feels a little too cute...I might want to keep them being enemies of goblins, though.

Lizardfolk - I think there was some reference to lizardmen in some Pacific Island myth, and maybe Australian.  I had bunches of different species, spread all over the place.  They even have the Lizard Isles named after them.  Do they belong?  I'd be loathe to drop them, they're definitely too primitive to be animas...Actually, maybe making them more primitive and war-like (ironically closer to D&D lizardfolk) might make them feel more like something out of Conan...

Lupines - wolf-men.  I don't know that there is refernce to them, but they seem to go well with certain Native American themes and fit well into the northern reaches similuating North America and Norway.  In the histories, they were very war-like, but became reclusive later.

Minotaurs - obviously from mythology.  They could be animas, but I was thinking of making them a primitive tribal society.

Nezumi - another one I could stand to lose, despite the fact they appear in a campaign.  I think I may have just seen them in OA (and Mt:G) and thought they worked well and felt mythical.  I don't know, I do have kitsune as animas, but they are from Japanese myth.

Oannes - Babylonian myth.  Fish-men.  Basically my version of sahagin (sahuagin in D&D).  I don't think having an alien, violent race beneath the sea detracts from the feel as long as they are relatively unknown and don't crop up much.

Ursians - bear men.  Yeah.  It felt cool.  Kind of like lupines, I see them as being seen by the people of Norumbega as reclusive spiritual guides, found only in the far north.  Since they are mainly found in lands where humands aren't (Shola), they're kind of a unique situation.

Vanara - Hinduism.  Definite keeper.  I don't really want to make them animas, but I might if it feels absolutely necessary.

So...Any thoughts or ramblings (considering this post was kind of me rambling to collect my thoughts) at all related would be appreciated.[/spoiler]

While mulling over the above races issue, I decided to elaborate a little on the Outer Realm (mentioned in the Cosmogony).  Site updated with a little basic information on it.  It's basically my version of the source of Lovecraftian horrors.

Quote from: Phoenix KnightInsectoids - here's one I could stand losing.  Originally, I had created Kishar for a D&D campaign and was going to allow thri-kreen.  When I distanced myself from D&D and considered more seriously writing about the setting, I dropped all reference to stuff they created.  I can't remember any mythical reference to bug men, either.  They're worth keeping only if it seems worth continuing to play up the Star creating huge varieties of races.

I originally created my own setting to allow thri-kreen, but i quickly scrapped that idea, i just could not make them fit in seamlessly with the other races.

If you going for a more historical approach remove the thri-kreen, they arent worth keeping to just play up creation.

Yeah, you're probably right.  Maybe it helps to hear it from someone else.  I'll cut them.

So, one down, 16 to go.

This issue was resolved.

Well I moved dwarves to a type of anima, getting them more in-touch with their Norse roots.

That leaves:
Humans
Anurans (amphibian people)
Canids (canine people)
Catfolk
Centaurs
Encarans
Lizardfolk
Minotaurs
Oannes
Ursians
Vanara

The only one I'm still up in the air about is ursians.  I kind of like the idea of big bear men, but I still have some reservations on this one.  Still, I think I'm ready to get to work on race descriptions.

In thinking about some of the feedback I've gotten, particularly from Salacious Angel and Raelifin, I've decided I wanted to try to explore and maybe codify the themes I'm exploring in the setting and stories set in it.  I avoided doing so in the past, partly to have readers draw their own conclusions, and partly because the vision I had driven the setting was more complex than I think I can easily summarize.  But it may be helpful to try (ambitious as they admittedly are).

[ooc]
Themes
Fate:
History is immutable...
One of the obvious and most drastic themes I explore is that of fate.  I may need to talk about the notion in more detail later.  But the underlying idea, is a kind of determinism (perceived by those aware of it as the Chains of Fate).  The issue is most clearly seen when taking from the perspective of characters that are prescient or in some cases can even travel through time, but no matter what actions they take they cannot avoid the path ahead.

Also, there is the issue of self-damnation.  The very nature of characters in the setting is self-destructive, much as we find in Greek tragedy.  Here we find the fatalism of Norse mythology, but not the acceptance one sees there.

Importantly, it is not some conscious being running the show, but rather an infinite chains of causality (as in Determinism, or Chaos Theory applied to the entire universe).  As such, it is even more cold and unfeeling, for there is no one to appeal to or blame.

The Role of Humanity:
All souls are drawn from the same Source
Certainly the setting strives to explore the reason for human existence and meaning of life stuff.  There is a certain notion of divinity in all souls, however base they may seem.  So we see emphasis on reincarnation, connections between souls, and the question of the ultimate plan, if there is one.

Sin/Redemption:
The world is caught in sick cycles of sin and tragedy
Characters in the setting are rarely what we consider classic heroes.  They are defined both by their good qualities and their (often fatal) flaws.  They get caught in cycles of sin and tragedy, and redemption seems unattainable.  And they are forced to face not only their pasts, but to question whether they are responsible for the "sins of the fathers" and for their own actions in past lives.

Blurred Morality:
Everyone has an agenda
Along similar lines, I try hard to make sure there are few true heroes or villains.  There are people, very complex people, each with complex schemes.  Along these lines, we also see the dichotomy between perception and reality.

The Nature of the Divine:
What makes a god?
As was pointed out, however much the focus may be on humanity, there is a lot about the divine, too.  It's distant, but I try to explore how one might move from some objective truth (some historical figure, for example), to this person becoming ingrained as a divinity in the eyes of people.

I also try hard here to not make any "holy" divine beings (other than in the tautological sense of holy being divine).  These beings also have agendas, and the best of them will use and betray to achieve them.
[/ooc]

[ooc]
Tone
Appropriate to the themes, we see a dark world, were characters often feel devoid of hope.  It is gritty, deadly serious.

Whatever supernatural lies under the surface, magic is rare and feared in the world.  Gods are distant, and many doubt such beings exist.

Beneath the surface, the setting has some science-fiction elements, as well.  Though the people of the world may never see it, we see issues like the Big Bang, time travel, spaceships, aliens, and so forth.
[/ooc]

Okay, that's what comes to mind.  I'm done rambling on this subject for now.

Well, a pretty major update to the site (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home)!

First, a slightly rewritten intro (on the homepage (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home)), which I hope evokes the tone and themes more clearly and is more compelling.

Secondly a new Races (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=races) section.  Since I wanted to separate the concept of race from culture (since most races have several cultures), there's not a lot of cultural info for most of them.  I'll include cultures within the pages for those regions.  But that left me wondering what to say about several races.  I would love to hear how everyone thinks the races can be improved or elaborated on.

I updated the FAQ (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=FAQ) a little, and added a few characters from the quotations to the Cast (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cast) section (instead of FAQ).

I also rewrote the Cosmogony (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cosmogony) (again); credit to Raelifin and Salacious Angel for their suggestions.

I added a new section for doppelgangers (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/doppelganger).  I also added a little more detail to the grigori (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/grigori), and added theme quotations to the archons (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/archon), muses (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/muse), and geans (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/gean).

I appreciate any feedback or suggestions.

nice intro

I have a few questions about the races and such:
How has the human race become the dominant race? what was it like before humans took over?
why has the human race left many parts of the world wild and unknown? what makes these places dangerous?

If the encarans are immortal and posses so much power that they can effect gravity, and they are so much more advanced than the human race, why is it that they do not rule the world instead of the humans?

I had more but my computer stuffed up and i lost what i was going to post, ill have another look at Kishar later when my head stops hurting

QuoteBorn of the union of man and protean, doppelgangers can assume the appearance of any person. Most serve the goals of their progenitors, creating chaos by infiltrating mortal societies and undermining order and peace.

I think this is what you meant (corrections in bold), it didnt really make sense before.

Thanks for the corrections.  I'm bad with typos, so it helps when someone catches them.  Plus it means someone is reading it, which is encouraging ;)

Quote from: Kalinnice intro

I have a few questions about the races and such:
How has the human race become the dominant race? what was it like before humans took over?
why has the human race left many parts of the world wild and unknown? what makes these places dangerous?

If the encarans are immortal and posses so much power that they can effect gravity, and they are so much more advanced than the human race, why is it that they do not rule the world instead of the humans?[/quote]I had more but my computer stuffed up and i lost what i was going to post, ill have another look at Kishar later when my head stops hurtingp[/quote]
I look foward to seeing your ideas.

Edit: Okay, I updated the doppelgangers and encarans.  After re-reading your question, I realized I needed to clarify something.  Encarans cannot affect gravity, per se; they can shift their own center of gravity.  This is a physical/mental thing, not one derived from technology.

Well, seeking a little advice again.  Before getting too far into my history, I need to decide how giants fit in.

In the past, I had them just another race created by the Star.  But I decided to make all giants animas, and descendents of titans.

Those familiar with my Cosmogony (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cosmogony) know that I have titans as a powerful primeval space-faring race that were defeated by the Primordials and imprisoned on Tartarus forever.  One set of giants (hecatonchires) were easily explained: the Primordials mutated titan genetic material to create guards for the titans.

The others, I am uncertain of.

One idea I had was that the titans created some lesser giant race (gigantes), and these somehow came to Kishar in a prior iteration (see The World (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=overview)), died, and were absorbed into the Atman.  Perhaps this gave the Star their genetic material?  Any trace of space-farring technology (or advanced technology of any kind) would be long lost, and other giant races would have evolved from them.

I could have a similar situation if they came from another planet but were pulled through some kind of wormhole (ala Stargate).

While I could accept either alternative, I'm not sure I really want a sci fi answer to this question.  If it was in the distant past, it's not a huge deal, but still.


The other possibility would be that Gaia or (unlikely) another Primordial programmed the Star with the titan genetic material.  Or Theletus asked her to (but why?).

For the sake of consistency, I need to figure out how each creature fits into the grand scheme.    And to write history, I need to know where they will first appear in that history.

Insight welcome, as usual.

Edit: Actually, I think I may have worked out how I want them to fit.  I went with the gigantes spaceship idea, in a prior iteration.  Which eventually gave rise to a giant civilization which later died out.  It kind of filled some gaps and helped things work together once I got in the right mindset.

I'm still interested in how you will reply to Kalin's question. It sounds interesting and it could be a cool source of conflict or adventure in your campaign world.

Quote from: KalinHow has the human race become the dominant race?

Mithra[/url].  Before all that the fae (mainly elves) ruled the world with magical power, but their abuse of that is what caused the Demon Age (I may rename this).  I suppose the world was in a semi-post-apocalyptic state after this afair, though it was many thousands of years ago.

Quote from: Kalinwhy has the human race left many parts of the world wild and unknown? what makes these places dangerous?

A more complicated question.  Some parts remain unknown or uninhabitted because of physical barriers or geographic location.  Others because of physical features.  For example, Muspelheim is not only a volcanic wasteland, but the home of fire giants and dragons.  There's little reason human would ever want to go there.  Even with superior numbers, the humans around Jotunheim would never be able to succeed in conquering that frozen land or taking it from the frost giants (which are simply too powerful).  Other lands are simply unknown - just as people in ancient Egypt probably knew nothing about South America, the same is true.  In some cases, there are lands no human knows about.

Within more civilized lands, areas remain wild for much the same reason areas of ancient earth may have remained wild.  The land might not be suitable for farming, so there would be little reason to venture there, and in the mean time, superstitions (in the case of a fantasy world, often grounded ones) grow up about spirits or monsters in those lands.  It is in the wilds that we may see fae, dragons, and other animas, as well as the other races of the world.  Even a tiger is a major threat to a human.  Could a tribe of human take one down?  Sure.  But why?  For the right to trek around the jungle and get some tropical disease?

I hope that starts to answer the questions.  Obviously, as I get more information up on the site, you can see such things in more detail.

And these questions help me to see what need to be included on the site, so keep them coming.

I like your answers. So basically the Jotunheim of the Norse essentially exists literally in the same world as that of humanity then.

Quote from: TybaltI like your answers. So basically the Jotunheim of the Norse essentially exists literally in the same world as that of humanity then.

Yeah, exactly.  While some of the place names are made up (usually based on words sounding appropriate for the theme of the region), many are drawn from mythology.

On the maps (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=map) page you can see the whole world.  Jotunheim can be seen on the Midgard map.  It is the huge region in the north east.  The islands of Nostir are basically the Norse area of my setting, but many names are drawn from Norse mythology.  You can see Muspelheim east of Jotunheim (Nioavellir sits between the two), and Niflheim is basically the south pole.

On a side note, I did prehistory today.  I might get to the Encaran Age tomorrow.

Minor update:
I changed the names of the two main dwarven nations to be closer to thoes in Norse myth.  Nioavellir became Nidavellir, and Khazan became Nidafjoll (I also decided Khazan was a little too close to Tolkien's Khazad; it may have unconsciously inspired the name).  Really, I just changed the maps.  You may have to refresh tha page if you check to see any difference (at least I do with FireFox).

Nidafjoll also sounds more in keeping with your mythology; Khazad has always sounded slavic to me anyway.

I find it interesting that you have a little of everything in your cosmology--but I'm curious as to the degree to which it is common knowledge.

Quote from: TybaltNidafjoll also sounds more in keeping with your mythology; Khazad has always sounded slavic to me anyway.

I find it interesting that you have a little of everything in your cosmology--but I'm curious as to the degree to which it is common knowledge.

Thanks.  I knew I wanted to rename it, so I started trying to find another name of a dwarven location from Norse myth (since dwarves are from Norse mythology).  I already had Nidavellir, and finding Nidafjoll was a little more difficult (it was kind of obscure).  But I'm glad to hear it sounds more in keeping.

Excellent question.  The answer is to say, no one knows it; really any of it.  As Theletus mentions, he's telling Kimi something no human has ever known.

If the question is then, why write it, I would say, for a couple reasons.  First, for myself - knowing the truth helps me in creating the myths cultures will have, in creating history for stories, and in making the world seem more alive, even if readers don't see the whole truth.  Secondly, for independent entertainment it provides (for myself in the experiment of incorporating so many mythologies), and of readers here, who I hope get some enjoyment out of it.

Ironically, while I draw a lot of names from Norse myth (and some from all mythologies, though in the Cosmology you also see a lot of Greek), I would say it is really Hinduism (especially) and Gnosticism that have the greatest impact on my conception of the setting and where I am going with the overall story I am telling.

Edit: Tybalt, I sent you a Review Badge for your several comments.  Keep them coming.  The interest is always encouraging!

Quote from: TybaltI have a question for you on your cosmology--which will be pertinent to me developing my own. Did you just take those elements of myth that you enjoyed and kind of mesh them together, within the structure of anima/creation that you present or what?

NO[/i] animas currently listed on the site.  All Primordials and most major spirits in general (even most minor ones like fae) common from some mythology or another.  Every named demon, angel, genius loci comes from some myth.

For example, many great heroes (Perseus, Heracles (as Harclas), etc.) are encarans.  Others were human, or some other race.  In some cases (especially with such heroes), I went for obscure or bastardized versions of the name.  Others I went straight up.  Many encaran names are like this, though I did just make up a few of those.  You can see much more of that when I get the history up in a few days.  It's mostly done, but I want to refine and add a timeline.

There was a lot work, brainstorming, and so forth to reconcile all those various mythologies in a way that I hope does not belittle any of them.

I'm not sure if that's any help to you, but I hope it answers the question.  If you can be more specific about what you're interested in, maybe I could clarify my reasons for doing it a certain way.

At last, a megatastical site update!

As promised, I finally have the history of Kishar up on the site.  It's long, but broken down into sections so you need not try to tackle it all at once.

[note]A side note, "The Shadow" (lord of the Land of Shadows) I may replace the name with Raktavija (Indian demon).  While in reality it is still really Asmodeus, I am uncertain which alias I want to use.  Using the Hindu name would also avoid possible confusion with Lucifuge, the Lord of Shadows (in Umbra - see Cast and Cosmology entries).[/note]

Also, some updates and name changes for a few races.

An update to the glossary and cast pages.  A few other minor updates.


I'm very interested in what people think of the history.

Also, I'd be curious if people have suggestions for filling out some of the less detailed races.

Thanks in advance ;)

A less major update than yesterday.

I know have up info on the alfar (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/elf) (elves), svartalfar (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/svartalfar), ophidians (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/ophidian), and rakshasas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/rakshasa).

Also, a minor update to the glossary, and to the fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/fae) page.  Oh, and as of yesterday's major update I've tried to start using the "fae" spelling consistently, so let me know if you see "fey" popping up somewhere.

Also, minor technical update, I change the vanir to the aesir (as "ancestors" of the Primordials (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/primordial)).  It seemed to make more sense.  For those that asked before, I did wind up removing Kali and Loki from the Primordial list.  Loki will be an alias of Theletus (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cast/Theletus) (Prometheus), and Kali will be more of an idea than a physical entity (though she is physically represented, just not named Kali (probably)).

I welcome some insight and reviews.  Also, if anyone has a preference for what anima (or anything else) they'd really like to see detailed next, by all means, let me know.

A minor update, but an important one.

I did go ahead and decide to change The Land of Shadows to be called Naraka (as the Hindu purgatory).  It was given this name by the people of Kirahr after it fell under the sway of the demon lord.  This demon (still Asmodeus) will now be under the alias of Ravtavija (a Hindu demon general) not "The Shadow."

While I kind of liked the Land of Shadows (Celtic myth), it really described Scathac (which was the Isle of Skye), and I already had a country named Scathac.  Plus, I didn't really want to the use the name "The Shadow" however much it fit the land, because Jordan uses it a lot.

Also, an update to the details of Asmodeus (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cast/Asmodeus).

I am reading through the Kishar material, I've been going through the History, but I think I'm going to look through the current Races before I go back to History.

Glad to hear it.  Races is somewhere I'd really like to expand on, anyway.  But I'm unsure what else to say about many of them, especially because I see their cultures being dependent on the region they are in.  So I could use some insight there.

Another new update (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home).

First, a new popout menu system!

Also we have a bunch of info on some kinds of fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/fae).  This includes the dvergar (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/dvergar) (dwarves), and alfar (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/elf) (elves), as well as goblins (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/goblin) , hags (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/hag), and several others.

Also an intro for giants (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/giant) and dragons (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/dragon).

I also have stuff up for Iao, an Old One chief.  But I plan to rewrite a bit based on feedback from my alien madness thread.

More later.

Phoenix I really like how you've made the Fae more cohesive, I'll have to be humble and take a page from your book since I wasn't sure how to present such thoughts, if that's okay. Also I really like how you just bluntly called all dragons children of Tiamat. That's similar with me but then as you know I'm using Babylonian mythology in my game. BTW, I like that you have included the Lindworm, which was always one of my favourite of the odder type of dragons.

Thank you.  Of course it's okay :)

Yeah, you can see the history of Tiamat and the dragons in the first chapter of the History (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=history) section.


I like lindorms, too.  Good old Scandinavian serpent dragons.  For those not familiar... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindorm)

For today's update to the site (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home):

First, some may have noticed I dropped the gradient background in favor of plain white.  Someone said it was distracting, so I'm going with this.  After all, I do have a lot of text, and want to be as reader-friendly as possible ;)

Today mostly saw more fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/fae) updates.
I added a minor detail to the svartalfar (that their kingdom is called Svartalfheim...really).

We also now have information up for brownies, elementals, hobgoblins, satyrs, selkies, and kappas.  So yeah, mostly Seelie today.  I'll probably get a bunch of Unseelie tomorrow.  Maybe.

The usual minor updates to glossary and cast as I think of new characters or terms that should be included.

I also added a short quotation for aeons (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/aeon) (they didn't have one), as well as restructuring the list to make it clear which emanation they were in, as well as clearly pairing the syzygies.

And that about covers it for today.

For today's update (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home), we have yet more fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/fae).  The list is now relatively complete.  While there are certainly more fae-like races I can (and eventually will) pull from other cultures, I'd say about ready to move to another category of work for a while.  Plus, most of the big names are done.

The new ones include Adhene, Aziza, Huldra, Leprechaun, Nix, Pixie, Bogle, Glaistig, Kelpie, Kobold, Powrie (redcap), Puca, Spriggan, Tengu, and Yara-ma-yha-who.  Not too bad for one day's work, right?

The bogle (also known as bugbears, bugganes, and a dozen others), is one of my favorites of the new batch.

Also, a minor update to merfolk to note that it is indeed the same race as merrow (the Irish name for them).

And another minor cast update to include a few more animas and important characters from history.

Let me know what you think.

Out of curiousity can a player play any of the fae types in your game? You are putting together a very comprehensive 'monster manual' that appears to have a strong contextual basis for the existence of all these creatures.

Well, really I'm more working on background for novels at this point than games.  If I were to run another game in Kishar, I would discourage a player from playing a fae or any anima.

I think it's important to realize that all animas are gods compared to humans, and generally are worshipped as such.  Even something like a goblin is more than a human soldier is prepared to deal with.  In the case of fae (and most animas) this is because of magical powers possessed by these creatures ranging from superhuman strength or speed, to enchantments, and so forth, in a setting where humanity does not really have access to anything like that.

But it would depend on the game.  If I were running The Riddle of Steel, I could see, in certain games, allowing it while requiring a high priority for Race.  In D&D, you could assign a level adjustment.  I'd suggest most fae level adjustments ranging from +3 to +6, but that's just a guess.  Some are obviously more suitable than others, however.  For all their powers, many have strange disadvantages (besides not fitting into human society) - iron burns some fae like acid.  Others turn to stone in sunlight (like dvergar).  And generally the fae are not well-liked on most of Kishar (see the history for examples and reasons).

While I had not thought of it in those terms, I am indeed putting together a "monster manual" for my world.  That is, I'm collecting every creature I can find from any real world mythology or folklore and working them in.  Rather than randomly throwing in bunches of stuff kind of hectically, I'm trying to creature a universal mythology for the setting.  So yeah, maybe tengu (Japanese) would not have been part of the traditional Unseelie Court (Scottish); but they fit well enough.

So it is gratifying to hear I have a strong contextual basis for the existence of all this stuff.  While an enjoyable labor, I did have to think a great deal about how I wanted everything to inter-relate.

Today's update (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home): Giants (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/giant)! (with the usual minor cast updates for important giants).

Animas are slowly but surely being filled out.  That should actually be about all the giants I need in the world.

I haven't yet accounted for fitting in Argus, but I may see he's a freak gigantes or something.

Most other generic giants are ogres.

Again, kudos for consistency. I like how you use classical ideas rather than conventional D&D ones. For instance 'ettin' to cover the Norse types of giant. Your descriptions are succinct, easy to read and clear.

Quote from: TybaltAgain, kudos for consistency. I like how you use classical ideas rather than conventional D&D ones. For instance 'ettin' to cover the Norse types of giant. Your descriptions are succinct, easy to read and clear.

Thanks, I really appeciate it (especially knowing I have a regular reader :)).  The biggest part at each stage has been doing lots of research.  Wikipedia is a great resource, as are several online sources, and a number of hard-cover books I already had.  

Actually, ettin was an interesting decision.  I was kind of torn between using it in the traditional sense, where it was a slightly later name for "jotuns", and the much later English folklore where The Ettin was a three-headed giant.  Obviously, I decided to stick with the alternate for jotun.  Besides, jotuns could have multiple heads anyway.  Norse giants were an interesting project in general.

As for today's update (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home): dragons (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/dragon)!

It actually took a lot less time than giants to get all the research and so forth done, and certainly less than the fae.

Though now I will need to expand on the idea of the Celestial Court at some point (mentioned in long dragons).

I guess daevas will probably be next.  I have been putting off the genii because I expect them to pretty complicated, except for maybe the types of nymph.

I know i need to do another reveiw of Kishar, but there is so much information now i dont know where to start :), not that thats a bad thing, you wouldn't happen to what something specific you might want reviewed

I really like the entry for the dragon section, it's quite vivid. I noticed you added the structure for oriental dragons. In general it is evocative and clear. The classification at the start clarifies the relationship between such seemingly different creatures as say hydras, lindworms and cloud dragons.

Quote from: TybaltI really like the entry for the dragon section, it's quite vivid. I noticed you added the structure for oriental dragons. In general it is evocative and clear. The classification at the start clarifies the relationship between such seemingly different creatures as say hydras, lindworms and cloud dragons.

history[/url].  But, uh, cloud dragons?  I don't recall any such beast :?: (I suspect you meant wyrms, my take on European dragons).  As I mentioned previously, I am fond of lindworms, too.

Edit: uh, I must have hit the fortune button when typing.  That was weird.

Sorry, I know you didn't, I was actually thinking about them because of my campaign...I meant Long Dragons.

Quote from: TybaltSorry, I know you didn't, I was actually thinking about them because of my campaign...I meant Long Dragons.

Ah, well that makes more sense then.  I didn't remember seeing them in New Edom.  Have you mentioned them before?

Anyway, for today's update (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home): daevas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/daeva).

Daevas are my version of non-cosmic demons.  That is, true demons are like what you imagine in the Exorcist.  They cannot be killed, and are normally not even physical entities.

Daevas are closer to what you except from demons in a game like D&D.  A mortal could theoretically kill one, though it would be hard.  This includes rakshasa and oni, probably my favorites.

Those of you paying lots of attention may notice I replaced the ophidians with the lamiae.  This is because I had invented ophidians to be a gerneric snake people, sense it seemed to fit well in both Egypt and South America.  But I prefer to stick with all creatures from mythology, and lamiae were close enough.

Anyway, that's not a huge update, but it may be all I can get done for today.  We'll see.

For today's update, I have: genius loci (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/genius_loci).

These spirits of place include nymphs, lares, leshy, and so forth.  Generally, they are created by and in service to a gean (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/gean).

Today's update: the undead (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/undead)!

Uh, it has nothing to do with Valentine's Day.

Anyway, I break them into two categories: Ghosts (incorporeal), and the Lost (corporeal).

Let me know what you think.  

For today, I have several kind of random updates.

First, therianthropes (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/therianthrope) (were-beasts).
I also added leviathans (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/leviathan) (as sea dragons).
There's monsters (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/monster) (my this wierd thing doesn't fit anywhere else category).


Aaaaaaaand, the phoenix (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/phoenix)!


So, before long I hope to working in some more information derived from my alien madness thread on the Outer Realm.  Any requests for a favorite creature, let me know.  The bestiary is really getting fairly complete, though there's always more obscure creatures to add which I've glossed over.  And a few classics I've skipped, too.

What struck me in particular was that you have a good universal explanation for the existence of undead, that all therianthropes (which is a word you MIGHT want to consider changing, it sort of has me mumbling to myself when I read it...why pick that btw?) are the results of a curse.

I also like that you have a clear explanation for why "Night of the Living Dead" happened. ;)

A few criticisms:
I'd like to know more about how these curses come about, and why transformation into in some cases such very different animals. Why is it predators for example? I think that if you are going to offer an explanation it ought to be thorough.

Why do Hopping Corpses attack people?

Also your Monsters link doesn't seem to work.

As always, thanks for the review, Tybalt.

Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therianthropewikipedia link[/url]) because it a more correct term for general were-beastry.  Lycanthropy technically refers to werewolves, only.  Another term would be zoanthropy, which sounds better, but technically means the mental disease of thinking you are an animal.

In the earliest conception of my world, I only had werewolves.  But wanting to incorporate mythology from all cultures, I expanded the idea.  Importantly, the "curse" was supposed to be a blessing from Gaia, but became corrupted during the Dark Age when Ahriman came to Kishar.  Esras (the guy telling the history) talks about Ahriman's arrival (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=history/meridian) in his histories, but doesn't mention the curse (mainly because he doesn't really have that information).

Quote from: http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/monsterTry this[/url].

Thanks again.

Edit: Yeah, the original link was bad.  I fixed it.

Well, first off, I added some more details to the therianthropes (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/therianthrope).

The details are in several areas, but most prominently:
[ic]All the bloodlines represent predators, for these were the forms Gaia thought would provide the greatest aid to humanity. However, such a choice also made them perfect for the corruption of the curse, playing on the savage nature of such creatures. According to legend, each bloodline traces back to a single individual given that blessing. The further from the progenitor, called the Alpha, of a bloodline one gets, the weaker the power.[/ic]
I hope this better explains the existence of different bloodlines.  As I added elsewhere, they are all predators (besides the obvious fact that mythological were-beasts correspond to those types in those areas), because those would have been the "most powerful" animals to aid against the demons and asuras.

Which brings me to another update:
I changed from using the name daeva to asura (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/asura) to represent the non-cosmic tainted animas.  Daeva was a little ambigious, since it is negative in Persian culture, but related to the positive deva in Hinduism, where I draw more names and influence from.

I added a new kind of asura, the daitya, which includes some of those mentioned in the history.

I added a couple new monsters (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/monster), namely the catoblepas and the manticore.

I created a new category, the devaputras (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/devaputra) (children of gods, from Buddhism) to cover the offspring of mortals and cosmic beings.  Doppelgangers were included here, and I now have entries for nephilim and cambions.

One other important note to avoid confusion.  In cleaning up various names (and I may not be totally done), I changed Eliscia to Elysium.  The two were obviously cognate, but I wanted to draw the clear mythical parallel (and a certain irony in that Elysium tried to conquer the world, for those reading the history).

I also fixed the history links in the first section (Prehistory).  I swear they worked at some point, but when I tried them today, I found I had a copy/paste error.  My apologies to any that tried them.

If you find broken links or inconsistencies of any kind, please let me know.

Well, I have been trying to keep with daily updates.  But I'm in the middle of a significant revision of some of my cosmological ideas and basic terms, and I won't get that done today.

So today's update is really short.  For your viewing pleasure, I present the Qilin (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/qilin) (kirin) a single new monster.

By the way, a question for anyone that has read the original stories for ki-rins.  Do they fly?  They fly in D&D and M:tG, but none of the three sources I found for researching them mentioned flight.

Anyway, I hope tomorrow of the next day will see a revised conception of cosmology (basics, not planes or stuff), as well as some information on how magic works in Kishar.

As promised, today's update was fairly significant.  First, I re-wrote the home page (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home) a little, to make the tour more of an explanation of where to start, since there's a fair amount of material now.

Secondly, I rewrote the Cosmology (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cosmology) page.  This page now explains in more detail the nature of reality (including some information previously on the The World overview page).  I recommend every reader start here, because the concepts are pretty important for the setting.  Some of these are the same, some are refined, and in some cases I changed a few terms (mostly due to more research).

Speaking of The World (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=overview), this now much short page only talks about unique features of Kishar (where stuff that applies to the entire universe was moved to Cosmology).

Planes (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/planes) and Alerternate Realities (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/alternate) each now have their own pages.  I hope to get more details on the Alternate Realities, especially Otherworld, in time.

Also as promised, an overview of Magic (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/magic) on Kishar.  The list of Projections is not totally complete, but it'll do for now.  Regardless, it should give an explanation of how magic works in the setting.

Since there are a lot of new terms that need updates, I will be updating the Glossary soon.

I welcome insight and feedback.  Like much of the material, this has all gone through many evolutions to reach this point.

Today's update:
I updated the glossary (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=glossary), a lot.  While perhaps not exciting, I think for a setting with many terms and concepts outside the fantasy norm, it is important.

I did a few monsters (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/monster), namely the chimera and peryton.

I also finally got to incorporating my alien madness thread into the Outer Realm (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/outer) Old Ones.  I used information from the thread, explained all of the Elohim now, and added the Ewah and Harmas.

The Ewah is from Native American mythology.  The name Harmas, like the names of most other Old Ones, comes from a gnostic text I was using as source material.  But I might choose a different one.  I'm not sure I like it for what they are.

I hope I am not being a jerk, but I tried to look at the web site linked to in the first post and the text was too tiny to read.  

Has anyone else experienced this?

How can I get around it? because form discussion here it sounds like an interesting setting but I can not read the tiny text.

Hold CTRL and press the "+" button, your browser should automatically increase text size.

Assuming you're using Firefox.

Quote from: Optic DoritosHold CTRL and press the "+" button, your browser should automatically increase text size.

Assuming you're using Firefox.

Internet Explorer, and I'm on a borrowed computer, so I'd feel weird downloading a different web-browser to use.  And what + button?  The only + is the uppercase of =.  Laptop with no number pad.

Oh well, found my own stupid way around the problem: copied and pasted it into a Word document.

On to start of review:

Quote. Even as we strive for redemption, we sow the seeds of our own damnation; we can never escape our basic nature. We are driven towards our invariable end, not only in spite of our efforts, but because of them.
-Gaedren, Omega

Men and spirits alike are trapped in the eternal dance which weaves their own destruction. But in all souls lies a spark of the divine.[/quote]Kishar is the central world in a fantasy universe. Many aspects may seem familiar: many cultures resemble those of ancient earth, incorporating aspects of many mythologies, often with new twists.[/quote]The laws of reality are perceived by men much as they see the ocean. They see a fraction of the surface. They cannot see its breadth. They know it is deep, but they do not begin to how imagine how deep or complex.
-Theletus
[/quote]All reality is emanated down from the Absolute Plane. This is the true consciousness of the universe, the source of all creation, Brahman. This force is the absolute truth, beyond the imagination of all beings. From it emanated all the planes (loka) downward, creating the universe. A single thought formed a Word, its utterance creating the totality of space and time from the infinite vibrations it created. The beginning and the end.
Then came the Atman, soul of the universe. It is the river of souls from which all souls emerge. It is one with Brahman, but in the shattered state of all souls, they cannot see this; their perception is blocked by Maya - the illusion cast by physical reality, prakriti.
[/quote]Some souls are perpetually drawn together, seeking each other in lifetime after lifetime. These souls may be soul mates, or perhaps just connected to each other in ways that cannot be perceived. This connection has sometimes been called the Web of Souls. Those that are drawn together may be friends, lovers, enemies, but they will find each other more often than not, not even conscious of the pull they invariably hold for each other.[/quote]CYTHRAWL
In the very first moment of creation, a second consciousness also arose. The opposite of Brahman, this force was the Cythrawl. Even as the Physical Plane arose, the Cythrawl manifested in that physical universe as the Abyss, a supermassive black hole at the center of creation. This gaping maw seeks to devour all that is, to return all creation to oblivion. Rather than perpetuate the cosmic dance of creation, preservation, and destruction, it seeks absolute entropy, nothingness.
This terrible force carries the Taint, a corrupting influence which can infect matter and energy alike. Those that embrace it gain its terrible power, at the cost of their souls.
[/quote]Even the greatest of heroes cannot escape their destiny; those destined for greatness are those most likely to have tragic fates. Time is relentless, and for all one's struggles against fate, one cannot change it. Yet it is perhaps the willingness to try anyway that makes those same people heroes.[/quote]
Are you at all familiar with the works of Joseph Campbell?  He had some interesting things to say about heroes.  

Wow a lot of big ideas to digest there.

@ElDo, neat I didn't know that either.  But trying it messes up the menu.

@khyron1144,
Thanks for the review.

The main text of the site is set to 1em (the quote is 0.9em, so 10% smaller), which means it should be the standard font size as determined by your browser.  If you are having a hard time reading it, that is some effect of the browser or else the monitor, so I can only say to play with the options.  I guess it seem really small on really high resolution, but that's not my area, so I don't really know that for sure.

Quote from: khyron1144Sets a nice cheerful tone for the world, doesn't it? Good mastery of style and voice, though.
<snip>
More grimness. So grim that commas are a rare commodity. I like it, though.

I don't know if it's your intention, but this would certainly give DMs a much better opener for a campaign than: well, you're all in the same tavern when a mysterious stranger approaches your table...[/quote]Are you at all familiar with the works of Joseph Campbell? He had some interesting things to say about heroes.

Wow a lot of big ideas to digest there.[/quote]
I am somewhat familiar with Campbell, though it's been a long time since I've read or listened to him.

I actually work hard in the setting to make clear "good guys" pretty rare.  Anti-heroes are more likely.  A little healthy moral ambiguity and all.

I'm glad you think I've big ideas :)  I actually was a philosophy major in college, and I do want the setting to explore some deep themes.

Thanks again.  I look foward to hearing more of your thoughts, as well as any way I might improve my work.

Words such as dimension and field and infinity are nothing more than conveniences for mathematicians and scientists. They are not descriptions of reality, yet we accept them as such because everyone is sure someone else knows what the words mean.
-Avatar, God's Debris by Scott Adams


That's what the ocean metaphor reminded me of, for what it's worth.  Don't ask me why.

I like the quotation khyron.

Anyway, for today, I don't have that much that is ready for posting.  What I've got,

Will O' the Wisp (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/willowisp) - I settled on making it a ghost, though it was a hard choice between that and faerie
Shedu (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/shedu) - I made it genius loci, though it was another hard choice

Also, some cast (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cast) updates, including Camazotz (bat death god and progenitor of vampires), and links to the Elohim I posted yesterday.

And a bit of other minor stuff, including a note that minotaurs are also found in Ahlia (I decided they were the same as "bull men" in Mesopotamian myth.  Close enough, anyway.

I noticed the thread sat with 666 views for a while.  Should I read someting in that? :demon:

Anyway, for today:

Minor update in the form of adding the dhampir as a footnote to vampires (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/vampire).

More importantly, I finally have a page up about regions (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions) (in the world menu).  Specifically, I have details for Nagryth (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Nagryth) and Valador (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Valador), two nations of Midgard.  I will be working on details regions based on the order I intend to use them in writing.  Meaning that I hope to get details for many nations of Midgard soon, with some for Khaltesh and Agria, but it may be a long time for places I don't expect to use much, like Kalakti and Norumbega (while having them is important to the versimilitude of the world, one cannot expect to use every region of a planet even in an epic).

Anyway, regions has been a long time coming, but I wanted history and mythology and all done first.  So I really welcome some feedback here, as well as any thoughts for improving or adding to the depth of these cultures.

Ah, no new content today.  I spent the day renaming some regions and thus re-doing all those maps.

A quick list of name changes, so as not to confuse anyone:
Khaltesh -> Asaland (Norse name for Asia)
Shaldon -> Cercet
Tersh -> Hesper
Elmet -> Hunaland
Chonland -> Reidgotland
Ket -> Daga (I found out there is a Greyhawk country named Ket!  The things you learn)

Anyway, that gets rid of most of the old names from when not all nations were based on anything (i.e. an early version when I was just making up names for some places), with the exception of a few I'm especially fond off.

I think getting the right name for something is really important, hence all this work.

I also added some names to other lands on the maps, and moved one or two.  Remember, if using FireFox, you may need to hit "refresh," or you may see the old map until you do (it seems to store .jpg info).

I hope to have details on a new nation tomorrow.  Maybe.

Today's update: Hunaland (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Hunaland)

(the germanic country directly north of Nagryth).

Enjoy!

Today's country: Cercet (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Cercet)
(kind of a Scythian country)

I also did a bit of updating on Magic (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/magic).  This an area I'd definitely like some feedback on, too, and one that hopefully doesn't require reading the whole setting.  So have a look ;)

I like it.  I like how original it is.  The names give it a Hindi feel.  The story at the beginnig serves well to make the reader hungry for more.  Reading about the different kinds of magic, it feels just similar enough to core rules that it's not hard to grasp, but it's still very different.  just one thing:  

QuotePerhaps how it works is less important that its effects.

I believe you mean "than it's effects."  If it weren't its own website I wouldn't bother correcting.

You are correct.  Always good to have help with typos ;)

And, yeah, most of the terms are drawn from Indian philosophy, though many have analogous forms in other cultures.

Thanks for giving it a look, Seraph.

Ah for today's update:

Hesper (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Hesper)
Elysium (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Elysium)

I also added some more detail to several types of ghosts, especially larvae, which I decided to reclassify by the Indian name, bhutas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/bhuta).  This includes the addition of some classics like the rusalka.

And a note on the jikininki (everybody's favorite corpse-eating ghost) to the preta (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/preta).

Also added a little to the glossary.

Enjoy.

Today's update is more limited than the last couple.  I've been busy with RL issues.  But I do have a bit of stuff.

First, a page on religion (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=religion).  It's big enough I think I eventually will need a separate page for each major religion, but for now the Eclesian Church the only one detailed on the site, so it will do.  This major religion is spread through every country I've detailed so far, so it seemed appropriate.

And now, for something completely different, a new random asura: the ahuizotl (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/ahuizotl) (from Aztec lore).  Bonus trivia: a D&D version is found in the Fiend Folio.  It's actually pretty close to the mythological one, which is often not the case in D&D.

Other important notes: I changed the name from geans (which I made up) to devas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/deva) (Hindu).  
For anyone that cares about my reasons: I originally didn't want to use the name because I was using the Persian daeva for non-cosmic demons.  I swapped this with asura, partly for consistency's sake in using mostly Indian terms.  This has freed me to use the term deva to refer to nature gods.

I know the menu's looking a little screwy right now (the third level overlap).  I'm working on it.  Those popout menus may look nice, but they can be difficult to formate sometimes.

I've still got a ways to go in reading your thread so my reviews are not complete.

First of all, I have to say again that I love how you have not just pasted some different myths and such together but have attempted to make them all cohesive. I think one of the outstanding examples of this is in your presentation of magic. You have a very clear system that is based on magical traditions that make sense when described. It is easy to understand it when reading it and I appreciate that--I have always loathed reading fantasy magics described where I felt I had to apply myself to studying a set of odd rules to figure it out. What's cool about yours is that different regions or traditions could easily call it different things or focus on particular aspects of it and still make it the same thing.

I generally enjoy the way you have a little story at the beginning of every chapter in your site, that gives you a brief but striking example of what is to follow.

As for the monsters: I generally liked them though what pleased me most was the description of the catoblepas, which is vivid enough to be considered as stolen for my game. ;)

I also liked that you actually made sense of the existence of dopplegangers. Sometimes the traditional D&D style of just having monsters pop into a campaign world because they're neat and would be an unusual challenge for players is irksome.

One criticism: I don't like the name "Lyonesse". It jolts me every time I read it. Since most of your other place names are either unusual or made up entirely (I assume they are either made up or very obscure) it is weird for me to read about a place name that I know about. I know you may like it a lot but I thought you should know that for someone who is familiar with the name it looks odd.

Perhaps I overlooked it but I'm curious about the status of genders and thralls in your pseudo scandinavian cultures.

I've been out today, so today's update is less complete than others again.

First, two new animas:
Shadow Knight (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/shadowknight) - a servant of demons that can skim Umbra and thus travel almost instantly (bad news)
Gorgon (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/gorgon) - (like the most famous, Medusa)

I also added some info on two more religions (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=religion) (I may do much more religious detail tomorrow); these include the old Ahlian Pantheon (the now fading pantheon based on Babylonian mythology), and the Cult of Dagon (everybody loves a crazy cult).


@Tybalt, thanks for another great review.  Glad to see I still have a regular reader :)

Quote from: TybaltI also liked that you actually made sense of the existence of dopplegangers. Sometimes the traditional D&D style of just having monsters pop into a campaign world because they're neat and would be an unusual challenge for players is irksome.

One criticism: I don't like the name "Lyonesse". It jolts me every time I read it. Since most of your other place names are either unusual or made up entirely (I assume they are either made up or very obscure) it is weird for me to read about a place name that I know about. I know you may like it a lot but I thought you should know that for someone who is familiar with the name it looks odd.[/quote]
You've heard of Atlantis, right?  :D
Seriously, almost all of names come from folklore or bastardized historical names.  Only a handful are completely made up.  I actually went through I phase a couple days back where I got rid of most of those, too.

I made a special effort to include in some way or fashion every mythological land I came across.  In some cases, like Tartarus, it is another planet.  In others, like Svartalfheim, they are on an alternate reality.  But most, from Jotunheim to Mu, appear right on Kishar.

Your point does make me think, however.  To some extent, it is a concern with using all place names from history/mythology.  Anyone that has studied that particular culture may recognize it.  Of course, that's also part of the point.  Perhaps I will edit into the first post a clear table explaining the inspiration for each culture, and the etymology of place names.


As far as Scandinavian cultures go, the land that is truly representative of those cultures of Nostir.  Since you're interested in, I'll try to make it one of the next I detailed.  Thus far I haven't done a lot of research on gender roles in those cultures, so I cannot answer that question until I have.  I can say that in Norse cultures magic was considered "unmanly" and thus magic will probably be even less accepted among men than among women.  Each major post is usually accompanied by doing a lot of research (mostly online) first.

For today:
Ersony (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Ersony)

I've also done some more work on religion (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=religion).  It's not finished, but you can check out what's up if you like.


I also edited the first post to contain a table of what all the various nations are inspired by and where the names come from.

I'm going to check the other stuff later, but I would agree that including the material you suggested on Lyonesse would help make it more contextual.

Quote from: TybaltI'm going to check the other stuff later, but I would agree that including the material you suggested on Lyonesse would help make it more contextual.

Yeah, I did go ahead and add that to the first post.  That way I can explain about countries mentioned but not yet detailed on the site.

After your suggestion, I considered making it just an island, but then I'd need a new name for the country, and it would still be there.  I'd like to keep the name, partly 'cause I like it ;), and partly because I've tried to use all the folklore/mythology names I could find.  Hence Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu, Muspelheim, etc.

Anyway, for today:

First, I fixed the menus.  They should look a little nicer today.  If anyone is having display problems with the site, let me know.

Today's big update: religion (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=religion).  That pretty much details as much info as I have on all the religions.  I might want to think a little about non-human faiths (though most mortal races in a land may share the faith), and I may want some more details in a few areas.  But overall, I feel it's a fair accomplishment. :)

I also added a new, important genius loci: the woodwose (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/woodwose).

Today's update:
More animas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/animas).

First, a random Unseelie from Hindu myth: Abarimon (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/abarimon)

Now on to more important stuff.

I made genius loci a sub-category of the new category: devata (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/devata).  These are nature spirits.  It includes several that were previously genius loci (nymphs, maruts, etc.), as well a bunch of new ones like adityas, vasus, and gandharvas.  Genius loci (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/genius_loci) have now been specifically relegated to spirits of a place, with no physical form beyond the place itself.

Also, a few new asuras (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/asura):
Danavas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/danava)
Pishashas (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/pishasha)

I continue to be impressed by how well you are meshing everything together.

What stands out:

I like the Abarimon because I have always been fascinated by creatures limited to and possibly created by a location. It makes things more mythical.

I found your description of the bar-lgura very succinct and vivid. The ahuitzotl as well I found really creepy. You have a knack for describing things as more than just stat monsters and as things that would be awe in spiring or scary or beautiful in and of themselves.

It would be neat for you to possibly do another one of your short stories to entice the reader to peer at more of your stuff actually.

Thanks Tybalt.
The Abarimon was kind of a weird creature, included mostly for completeness.  I'm glad you liked it.  It was kind of a toss up about whether it should be Unseelie or Seelie.  It's wild nature led me to eventually decide Unseelie.

The ahuitzotl is one of my favorites wacky monsters.  I mean, it has a tail hand.

Quote from: TybaltIt would be neat for you to possibly do another one of your short stories to entice the reader to peer at more of your stuff actually.

Can you clarify what you mean?  Do you mean the snippets at beginning of a few sections like the minotaur or sea serpent?

Or another short story like in the fiction section?  I had kind of temporarily abandoned that section (you can see I haven't updated it with new names for Elmet, etc.).

I hope to work on getting a short story published in a mag before too much longer.  I just haven't been quite ready to write on it yet.  

Either way, I could work on something to add.


Anyway, I updated daily from Feb 7th through March 2nd.  Pretty good.  Had I known how close I was to the one month mark, I might have tried harder to keep it up ;)  But there haven't been updates for the past two days.  For today I do have something, though:

First, since Tybalt expressed interest in my Norse culture, I present Nostir (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Nostir).

Also, a big step: Organizations (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=organization)

I also did a few animas over the last few days, though I'm not sure I remember them all:
Barhishad (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/barhishad)
Agnisvatta (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/agnisvatta)
Danava (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/danava) (was this up before?)

Anyway, I may try working on maps a bit (maybe mountains and stuff), so it might be a while before another update.  Maybe.

Wow, you've done a lot of work lately. I was kind of amused to see you put the Deep Ones in there with another name. ;) the organizations are all nicely written up--I notice in particular how there are several groups vying for psionic strength, which is interesting, and how few of these groups are genuinely altruistic which makes contextual sense. Cool that you have a way of putting in real life organizations that make sense in given the context of your world such as the Templars and the way they conduct themselves.

(OOC: recommend use of spellchecker for some stuff--extortion is spelled 'extorsion' in your entry for one of the knightly orders)

Quote from: TybaltWow, you've done a lot of work lately. I was kind of amused to see you put the Deep Ones in there with another name. ;) the organizations are all nicely written up--I notice in particular how there are several groups vying for psionic strength, which is interesting, and how few of these groups are genuinely altruistic which makes contextual sense. Cool that you have a way of putting in real life organizations that make sense in given the context of your world such as the Templars and the way they conduct themselves.

(OOC: recommend use of spellchecker for some stuff--extortion is spelled 'extorsion' in your entry for one of the knightly orders)

I had to look up deep ones in Wikipedia.  It said:

Quote from: WikipediaThe Deep Ones are a race of frog-like, ocean-dwelling creatures with an affinity for mating with humans.

Whoa.  Based on the name, I first thought you were talking about the Dwellers.  Now I'm guessing you meant the Danavas (one of the main kind of asuras in Hindu mythology).  I really should read more Lovecraft.  I've only read about five of his stories.  They ranged from pretty good, to really good (I really liked the haunted hotel in New England, for which I cannot remember the name of the story right now).  I made them amphibious because the myth said they were banished beneath the sea.  I had to take liberties since there wasn't a physical description that I found.

Thanks for the typo info.  I sometimes forget to run spellcheck in AceHTML.  I wish there was a way to make it auto-check like in Word.

Thanks for the review :)

Been a while since a new update.

What I've been working on is the new, full-color maps (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=map).

The world map gives the general idea, while the continent maps are more zoomed in and thus show names of cities and rivers, etc.

You will note I did take out the Lizard Isles.

Since the file names are the same, remember to hit refresh if you've viewed them and are using FireFox (or they otherwise still look black&white).

I also updated some old details (a fair bit of minor stuff), and added two new animas:
barghest (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/barghest) (hellhoud, etc.)
wendigo (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/wendigo)

I really like the latest descriptions. The barghest one is far better than the one in the DMG. I think the wendigo depiction is very classic but succinct.

BTW, yes, I'm glad you discovered Lovecraft, very interesting source of inspiration.

The maps are nice to look at and most important easily readable--for that part of your site what you want are maps that don't give you a headache to try to read. It's very clear how you have broken down the regions.

Thanks as always Tybalt.

I'm glad you liked the barghest.  It actually is broken down into several different monsters in D&D (barghest, hellhound, yeth hound), but all are really talking about the same kind of black dog, so I generally try to make that just regional different names for the same creature.

I started reading Lovecraft maybe two years ago (probably a little less).  I should read more, though I've been mostly reading Robert Jordan lately.

The maps definitely took effort, so I'm glad they please.  It was my first effort in Photoshop.  For those using that program, you can add a white outer glow to black text, which makes it more readable on color background.  In some cases (rivers, etc.) I still had to use a slightly smaller font than I wanted to make it fit, but it sounds like it is still  legible.

A minor update of a few more animas (and some minor glossary updates):

Encantado (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/encantado)
Swan Maiden (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/swan_maiden)

Cait Sith (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cait_sith)
Cu Sith (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cu_sith)
Hippocampus (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/hippocampus)

Might have some more significant stuff this week.

For today, a new kingdom: Lyonesse (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Lyonesse)

Today I present two new nations:

Daga (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Daga)
Reidgotaland (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Reidgotaland)

There's quite a few nations up now.  This is an area I'd definitely like some feedback on.

I took out the Fiction section, at least for a while.  I'm in the process of working on a piece I hope to eventually have published, and it invalidates some of that material.  Besides, it still used some old names for countries.

I like your additions re: the Atlas. It is interesting to see how the fall of Elysium affecting nations differently. I also like too how you blend your own ideas with some stereotypical ones.

Yeah, the stories I'm working on mostly take place before all this, but the site assumes the current date is like 3 years after the fall of the Elysian Empire.

I really haven't been working on anything lately (other than the short story I submitted for publication), but I guess I should get back to it this week.  I suppose I haven't been around as much this past week, either.  I'm pretty close to finishing the details for mainland Midgard, so maybe I'll work on that tomorrow.

Anyway, I'd love to hear any suggestions or feedback you have (or anyone has, of course).

One of the things I look for in a campaign site or book is the sense of the dynamic. What is the nation actually doing, and is there a sample of it? Most game books present this as being only apparently dynamic but in fact as being static. I realize that this is mean to present the nation in question as a passive body that the adventures/pc campaign will add leaven to...but I like a little more personally.

It would be interesting to know what the civil war is about for instance in Reidgotaland or the aristocratic regaining of power in Daga's details a little--I'm aware that you have an ambitious project to hand so I'm hoping you will take this as interest and not criticism. Also it would be interesting perhaps at some point to have a sidebar on the different orders and factions and how they affect nations in particular.

I like both those ideas.  I'll try to work them in sometime this week.

I think you're right about published settings - there's a tension between trying to create something alive and something static enough your book won't be outdated by the time the next one comes out.  Maybe that's why you don't often see active wars and so forth presented in most countries in these books.

But in presenting a particular year in history, and in working more for novels than gaming, my project is somewhat different.

Anyway, thanks.  Certainly I take it as interest, but constructive criticism is also helpful and welcome.

So a new update:

First of all, the maps (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=map) page now features a map displaying the breadth of the Elysian Empire (as well as the map for the Encaran Empire) at its height, to give everyone an idea of how far it reached.

Secondly, we have several new regions (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=region):
Bjarmaland (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Bjarmaland)
Jotunheim (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Jotunheim)
Nazca (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Nazca)

You will also notice that each region now has another section after history in which the roles of any of the organizations (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=organization) present in the region are explained (thanks for the idea Tybalt!).

I also added details to the political situation in Daga (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Daga) and Reidgotaland (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Reidgotaland), as suggested.  This should give a little bit better idea who the major players are in these nations.

As always, input welcome.

Wow, you must have been really inspired when you did those three. I like the little information at a glance insert, that's handy. One thing I like about your writeups on the countries is that there is instant clarity about what the land consists of.

The two that stand out for me most are Nacza and Jotunheim--the explanations of a giant dominated land and its ignored yet oppressed people and the sad haunting of a civilization come to an end are very nicely written up.

Sorry if this is just gushing but I really liked those entries. I also like your write up of the knights of Lamorak btw--one of the most obscure of the knights of the Round Table in spite of his rating in the Table hierarchy. Glad he has some legacy. ;)

I'm glad you liked it.  It's gratifying to know I have a regular reader.

Nazca is obviously loosely based on the real Nazca (in Peru), and Jotunheim on Norse mythology.

Lamorak was kind of an obscure knight, wasn't he?  I've made an effort to include many heroes/deities of myth/legend, though often altered from their original form in varying degrees.

So it's time for another big update.

First, the site (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home) has a new look.  My hope is that slightly brighter colors will be less fatiguing in the long run.  Also, there's a new menu.  While they popout suckerfish-style menu system had its advantages, I think this straight-forward one may be more user-friendly.

There is now an Updates page so you check to see when stuff changed :)

Beyond some minor corrections and adjustments, we now have a Calendar (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=calendar) page.  At one point I was using the Gregorian Calendar, but the closer I got to thinking about publishing fiction, the more I decided I needed a different calendar.

Several new regions are available for perusal:
Ahlia (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Ahlia)
Kirahr (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Kirahr)
Naraka (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Naraka)
Nidafjoll (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Nidafjoll)
Momur (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Momur)
Shambala (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=regions/Shambala)

Finally, I removed the Outer Realm and Old Ones (the Lovecraftian aspects of my setting).  I still need to update the history/cosmogony to reflect this.  It was a hard decision, especially after getting such great ideas from my Alien Madness thread.  I hope to use some of it in the future.  Ultimately, however, I decided to gear the setting even more towards mythology, which meant ditching the wacky stuff with no basis in folklore.  The other factor was a desire to slightly compress the number of hostile factions, in order to create a more cohesive setting for my story.

Because the Dwellers (a race of Old Ones) were a major force in history, I need to really rethink how I want their role to be filled.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what anyone thinks about the new material and layout.

I really like the new site. We all know how much color is tied to psychological perception and the new scheme makes the material seem fare less dense. Likewise I no longer weep tears of blood when trying to navigate. Bravo, now I can give Kishar more attention.

Good gracious, tears of blood?  I think that only qualifies as a miracle when it comes from a statue.  So the suckerfish menu system offers its condolences for your ocular discomfort.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts.  In its lifetime, Kishar has gone through a lot of revisions, and may still go through more.  I suppose it's a long road to getting things where you really want them.

It's neat that you have mythic type lands in your world. In so many cases the standard D&D thing of having almost any largely human city have a bunch of minotaurs tending bar or else even worse human style cities with humans in funny suits--well it bores me. But I like how you for instance have a nation run by a Hindu demon lord or an actual hidden kingdom of the dvergar or a remote land of the fae, that's very cool.

I'm glad to hear that.  The world is by-and-large human.  And I'm still considering dropping some of the other mortal races (lupines and ursians have been on nebulous ground for a while - they may be better as another spirit race).

But the world is still a fantasy world, so there does need to be a place for supernatural creatures to exist.  There's definitely not many places where you'd find minotaurs tending bar.  The first read through of your post I read "minotaurs in funny suits."  The image of a minotaur in a tux gave me a laugh.

PK, how did  you make your map?

Quote from: IshmaylPK, how did  you make your map?

It's done almost entirely in Photoshop (6.0).

I started with a hand-drawn pencil sketch of the basic outline of the land (no features) spread across several pages.  I scanned it and did the best I could to line up the pages.  I wound up having to go over most of it with the PSP pencil tool to make it darker and add more detail anyway, so, in retrospect, it might have been easier to do it all in Photoshop.

I made lots of different layers - one for each type of feature, and generally one for each different color of shaded areas.

It was my first computer map (and my first Photoshop image), so I'm fairly happy with it.  If you'd like more information or specifics about how I did certain things, PM me, and I'd be happy to share.

Hey Phoenix Knight, I vaguely remember you asking for mythologies which you had forgotten, and I thought I would point out soemthign I'd like to see in Kishar.  If you have already, I couldn't find them, but have you written up anything for the Sirens of greek myth?  The Sirens, and their mythical counterparts from other cultures are a staple in history, and I really think that they should have a place in your world.

Just a thought, and keep up the good work dude!

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueHey Phoenix Knight, I vaguely remember you asking for mythologies which you had forgotten, and I thought I would point out soemthign I'd like to see in Kishar.  If you have already, I couldn't find them, but have you written up anything for the Sirens of greek myth?  The Sirens, and their mythical counterparts from other cultures are a staple in history, and I really think that they should have a place in your world.

Just a thought, and keep up the good work dude!

Thanks for the interest, Rose.  

I have sirens (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=bestiary/merfolk) as Unseelie fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=bestiary/fae).  After some research, I found they were largely described in much the same way as mermaids (sirens were sometimes more bird-like than fish-like, but not always, and both were known for singing sailors to their deaths), so I decided that merfolk were the Seelie kind, sirens the Unseelie.  I originally got down that path from The Riddle of Steel, which uses a similar definition.

I'm thinking of adding a bestiary index which would list all the different names of monsters and link to them.

So I've made a number of minor and some moderate-size updates since last post.  The site (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=home).

First, I've finished revising the Cosmogony (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/cosmogony) and History (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=history) sections.  All reference to the Old Ones/Outer Realm have been removed (I hope; if you find one, please let me know).

While revising history, I settled on each iteration lasting 24,000 years (rather than a million), both to bring the cycles more in line with Indian Yugas, and because the large stretch of time no longer served great purpose without the Dwellers.  You can check out the Timeline (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=history/timeline) to see the revision and when various Eras ended.

I also did a bit of revising the Bestiary.  You can see that several types of creatures got condensed or became sub-headings under one big heading.  For example, under fae (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=bestiary/fae), check out the shifter or sprite.  Fae, giants, asuras, and devatas saw the most of this stuff.  There's also slightly more short story monster intros and fewer quotations.

So anyway, enjoy.

EDIT: I did get around to adding that Bestiary Index.  It lists all the various creatures on the site, including the many different names.

So there haven't been any updates for quite some time.  Partly because I knew I couldn't access hosting so I wasn't working so much (now I no longer have that excuse), but mainly because I was working on other things for my career and personal life.

Among them, The Echoes of Dreams (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?32817), which I posted about on a separate thread, and some Kishar fiction I hope will one day grace the pages of a fantasy magazine (we shall see).

Anyway, I have still been thinking about the setting.  I came to the decision to remove the ursian race.  The jury is still out on lupines, and felids are on only slightly more solid ground.

My reasoning: I think were-bears (and maybe fae shifters) can largely fill the same role while being a slightly darker alternative and being a little truer to mythological/folkloric sources.  I mainly saw ursians in my Norse, North American, and Arctic settings.  I think berserks which are werebears work fine for Norse, and some kind of skinwalkers for the Native American settings (and possibly the Inuit regions).

I have mixed feelings about felids and lupines.  On the one hand, they're kind of cool.  On the other, I think when writing (and that's really what this project is all about, fiction), it works better not to have too many different elements you want to introduce, so you can focus on all of them.  Especially in a gritty, serious world.

I also became more certain in the decision when working on Roaa for EoD.  I think a fairytale world (the world connected to Roaa) may be ideal for animal-men.

Bear-men seem a little surreal to me, for whatever reason.  I can use surreal, but I prefer to keep mortal races real, and animas surreal.

On the other hand, many of the other mortal races are definite keepers, drawn from mythology.  Anurans and saurians are not, but I'm probably too fond of them to axe them.  Plus, I think their alien natures and exotic locales may mitigate the problem there.


So, I'm posting all this to see if anyone has input or opinions on the matter, especially in regard to felids and lupines, and whether they are best relegated to mystical creatures such as shifters and werebeasts.  It'll be easier to remove multiple races from history all at once than one at a time, so I'll wait until I've made my decision.

I'm for removing them. I think they don't mesh well with the general world.

I think that thus far your world's creatures maintain the versimilitude and therefore keep the ursinids and felinids out of it. They as you say might better fit in with your faerie tale world.

[blockquote=Phoenix]Gaia is Kishar. Originally named Jord, she was once one of the most influential of the devas. But when brought a proposal from the aeons, her goals changed. She merged with a lifeless rock, becoming a living planet. Through her power, she coalesced the akasha into the Star of Life, leading to the creation of life across Kishar.

Exhausted by her great deed, she slept. She speaks softly, working through others. She is forever protected by her guardian, the great dragon, Ladon.[/blockquote]

I don't know why this struck me so much, but perhaps due to my own appreciation for epic cosmology that is beyond the knowledge of the folk of the setting.  The bit about her speaking softly somehow makes this more dynamic, perhaps reaching through the ages to the current day.  I like.

I also find it very interesting with your Brahmahn and Cythrawl's dual coming into the world.  I again did something similar, and I think it speaks to our similar respect for duality/harmony/opposition in mythology.  Assuming I am right there...

(do a quick spell check on the organizations page.  I'm having my players fix all my spelling errors...)
I like the organizations.  I am big on factions, so the trading guilds make sense to me, and I'd like to know moRE about the organization of the Midgard Trade Alliance.

Forgot to mention how much i like the minataurs

Way to raise a thread from the grave, LV!

As may be apparent by the "last updated" date being May 2007, I haven't messed with the site in ages. In fact I might have taken it down if I still had access, but until the CBG update, I don't. I've significantly revised the setting since what you've seen on the site, and even the more recent threads.

My focus has become working only on what I need for my writing. And because I'm trying to publish (fiction, not the setting), I've wanted to post fewer spoilers online. Hence my Writer's Corner thread seeking critiques for my novel.

That said, I'm deeply gratified by your compliments and interest in the setting.

Many of my cosmological constraints are still similar to what you find on the website, but they have been refined and streamlined a bit more.

Glad you liked the organizations. Only a few survived the refining of the setting (partly because I revised back my world back 400 years to the time the stories take place, as oppose to what's on the site which related to gaming), though, and the MTA was not one of them.

(Since my current writing is in word, not HTML, I hope the spelling will be better. I've seen plenty of errors on the site, but obviously can't fix them.)

Nice to hear there's a minotaur fan out there. One of Kishar's goals is to try to include all mythological creatures (and in newer revisions very few creatures not from mythology, so anurans and catfolk are out). Because very few supernatural creatures appear in novel 1, I haven't done much work on them lately, but I'll keep in mind you liked the old take on minotaurs when it comes time to write about them again.

Thanks for the review.