How horrid are they?
Should they be avoided at all cost?
Is it okay if it's subtle?
Let's say that you create a game where Alaghi (ape-like humanoids that might not have made the cut in 3e) are relatively prominent. Is it automatically bad to name their king Louie? Is it okay so long as he doesn't call anyone man cub or start scatting?
I know this is ultimately a personal taste thing, but it would help to see what others think.
A pun is a play on words intended for humor purposes. Think of the Pelf's Rancid Arrow spell for a D&D example.
An allusion is a reference to something. Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett contains many allusions to Shakespeare, particularly MacBeth.
Depending on what you are alluding to, allusions can be great. If you want a serious game, do not make allusions to silly things. Subtle allusions are also good for serious stories.
Puns are only good if you want a humourus setting. I could see running a setting with puns built in, but I would never even consider intentionally doing what you are talking about for most of my settings.
That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy it if I was playing in a game and someone did. But I wouldn't do it myself.
Quote from: Phoenix KnightPuns are only good if you want a humourus setting. I could see running a setting with puns built in, but I would never even consider intentionally doing what you are talking about for most of my settings.
Sometimes it happens without you knowing it. For instance, one of the Gods in my setting is named Vidac Ni. His worshipers don't utter the first part of his name for fear of dirtying it, and their military arm uses the part they can say as a battle-cry. I was watching monty python last night when it hit me.
Completely on accident, I had created the Knights who say Ni.
Quote from: Stargate525Completely on accident, I had created the Knights who say Ni.
Are they fearful of shrubberies?
:-p:
But technically, that's not really a pun. A pun is play on words, not a reference or tribute to some other work.
Like I said; I would never intentionally put one in. And while amusing, I think finding that would be enough to trigger one of my infamous rewrites.
I had to come up with the terrifying cult leader of a group of necromancers' name on the spot. Hadn't thought of the leader yet, but they found it our.
Went a little like this.
"umm... it is ...ur uh... Mortos... the Firelord" "Bwahahahahah"
The name sounded familar and suitably "necro-ish" so i just figured i had heard something similar recently and decided to steal it. About half a second after my friend Greg started laughing i realised i had been watching Invader Zim a few days before and had had inadverdantly named my BBEG after "MORTOS DER SOULSTEALER!"
Now i can't refer to my menacing BBEG without him laughing. Kinda kills the aura of fear.
Allusions and puns are great. Nuff said.
Oh, and the Alaghi made it into Monsters of Faerun, though that supplement is 3.0. I don't know if it's been further revised or not.
Quote from: WitchHuntAllusions and puns are great. Nuff said.
Oh, and the Alaghi made it into Monsters of Faerun, though that supplement is 3.0. I don't know if it's been further revised or not.
Okay. I don't have that one. I don't run FR, so FR books are not high on my must buy list, but I will probably get Monsters of Faerun one of these days for 3e Pterra Men and Alaghi now that I know.
Quote from: KorumaineAre they fearful of shrubberies?
No.
Quote from: Phoenix Knight:-p:
But technically, that's not really a pun. A pun is play on words, not a reference or tribute to some other work.
Like I said; I would never intentionally put one in. And while amusing, I think finding that would be enough to trigger one of my infamous rewrites.
I dunno what I'm going to do with them yet, to be honest.
Quote from: Phoenix KnightDepending on what you are alluding to, allusions can be great. If you want a serious game, do not make allusions to silly things. Subtle allusions are also good for serious stories.
Puns are only good if you want a humourus setting. I could see running a setting with puns built in, but I would never even consider intentionally doing what you are talking about for most of my settings.
That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy it if I was playing in a game and someone did. But I wouldn't do it myself.
I did once run a game where the PCs fought monsters from the April issues of Dragon, like Death Sheep and Killer Spruce Trees, some of which were pun-based. It was fun. It was technincally set on the same world as my current game, (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?24955) but it was very definitely an earlier iteration. The events of this adventure are probably retconned out in current campaign history to whatever extent it might matter.
I am necromancering this thread. My work on Island City (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?54621) kind of ties in.
The backstory is a marriage of two of Shakespeare plays. Almost all the NPC names are borrowed from somewhere.
Quote from: khyron1144An allusion is a reference to something. Wyrd Sisters by Terry Pratchett contains many allusions to Shakespeare, particularly MacBeth.
Wyrd Systers has more than just Macbeth influences; it contains just as much Hamlet. Pratchett's style in these early books is a full-out pastiche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastiche), which is something above and beyond a simple allusion. Part of what I think makes it work so well is the thorough commitment to the pastiche form; if Pratchett were telling an unrelated story with a few sly references to Macbeth scattered about, I don't think it would have worked nearly as well.
I was once part of a big game where we had a whole bunch of silly things like the Decanter of Endless Slaughter and the Great Glistening Fruit Horde of the Fell Dragon Faug
Mostly it varies on a case-by-case basis.
I try to avoid puns, but the right kind of allusion can be useful. Sometimes, other sources are a form of inspiration. In some cases, you try to change it to make it unique, but other times, it is suitable to pay homage to your source.
I had a magic rug maker that you could weave different organic food options out of.
...It was called Fruits of the Loom.
Quote from: LordVreegI had a magic rug maker that you could weave different organic food options out of.
...It was called Fruits of the Loom.
Excellent! You made me snicker!
As for my opinion on Puns and Allusions, I say damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead. The more the merrier.
I think it depends on the type of environment you want your players in and how you want your setting to feel. Allusions, however slight can really help anchor your world for your players, because it will help them create mental visuals, even if they don't consciously get the reference. Puns are better in worlds that meant to be a little jokey, like my current project, Orrery. (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?76342)
For most gritty settings, allusions work fine, but puns and in game name gags don't. The one thing against allusions and puns, at least in my book, is that they can take players out of the game, if not handled with care.
I'm going to fourth (or fifth?) the sentiment that puns should only be willfully placed in a game if you're going for a light toned game. You don't really need to inject comedic relief into your games, as the players will generally do that for you.
Allusions on the other hand can be really useful. One thing I like to do is sneak in references purposefully to get the players to suspect something. Sometimes it's a red herring, other times the reference is spot on. It keeps my players on their toes.