Long title, I know ... For years, I have been intending on making my own changes to the system. With every year that goes by, I'm able to assimilate more sources into my desired mechanics.
Long ago, I decided on splitting the ability scores into 8, adding Agility and Perception. Recently, after picking up Mutants and Masterminds and True20, I've decided on utilizing the Toughness save mechanic. I'll describe the Toughness save mechanic, for those that don't know about it, before describing my hopes for adding Agility and Perception.
Toughness Saves
Rather than having HP, characters will have a Toughness save. I intend on using high, medium, and low save progressions, allowing for differences between different classes. Barbarians, Fighters, and Paladins will have high (2-12), Clerics, Druids, Monks, and Rangers will have medium (1-9), and Bards, Rogues, Sorcerers, and Wizards will have low (0-6). Constitution will add to the save as well.
Rather than having damage dice, attacks will have a damage score. The score is based on the weapon being used (for the most part, light weapons will be +1 damage, one-handed weapons will be +2 damage, and two-handed weapons will be +3 damage, though different weapons will have different properties that will alter them). To be slightly different than other toughness systems, players will probably roll a d20 and add their attacks damage score to the roll to determine the Toughness DC for the attack.
If you successfully save against the attack, you suffer no ill effect. If you fail by a certain amount, you take 1 injury. Each injury imposes a -1 penalty on toughness saves, but otherwise causes no problems. When you fail by more, you take a wound, which will impose penalties. When you fail by even more, you drop to dying, or die.
One advantage of such a system is that tough characters can take little hits without injury, but they aren't guaranteed to be invulnerable (the attacker can still roll high, or they can roll low, or both).
Crits add a certain amount to the damage dice (+2 normally, basically the normal crit multiplier added to the damage). Armor and Natural Armor grants a bonus to Toughness saves (shields still boost only AC). Str will not grant to-hit anymore (Dex will, which is one reason I want to add an Agility score). This makes damage from Str worth more, and makes +1 damage valuable.
Agility and Perception: With Str damage being more valuable, armor providing increased toughness, and Dex gaining to hit, Dex needs to have it's effectiveness reduced. So, it's definition will change from coordination and agility to just coordination; a dexterous person has good hand-eye coordination and moves with purpose. Agility measures a character's speed and reflexes. Agility will control AC, Reflex saves, Initiative, and the Tumble skill (maybe balance too); Dexterity will cover Attack rolls (both ranged and melee), and the rest of the Dex skills.
Partially to keep things symetrical, and partially because of my future ideas for my world's magic system, I also want to have a Perception score. Wisdom will be altered to govern a character's mental health and mental resiliancy, while Perception will govern a character's senses. The problem with this is that Perception will not have a big single atribute attached to it (int has skill points, wisdom has will saves, and charisma has action points in my games). I could give initiative to perception, but initiative isn't worth as much as the other abilities (1 feat is +2 will saves, but 1 feat is +4 initiative).
So, here, I need ideas on what a Perception score could have aside from important skills. Part of me is considering having a second mental saving throw (Will would mean resisting influence, while the new save would be resisting deception), but I don't think it would apply to much other than Illusions (and that might only succeed in weakening Will saves).
So, ideas anyone?
Quote from: Xeviat[...] Toughness Saves [...]
The main problem with this is, that you'd have the "feature" of auto-failure and auto-success as it would use the saving throw mechanic. You'd have to deal with wizards surviving a dragon power attacking for maximum (with an nat 20 on the save), and epic barbarians dying from a pixie arrow (with a nat 1 on the save). If you changed that, you'd create an exception to the general rule, thus destroying a unified mechanic for similar situations.
Also, rolling both sides is imho a bad idea. It would greatly increase randomness, which always favors the underdog in DnD (which would not be the PCs). This was iirc the same reason why WotC removed 3.0 psionic's "variable save DC" from the system.
Okay, so I'll stick with my standard PCs roll all the dice mechanic. As for auto success and auto failure, I'd have to treat 20 as a success and 1 as a failure, but 1 would calculate the failure based on how badly you failed, not as the worse failure. I would need a situation for 20's auto successing, so I'll check how M&Mm handles that.
And I think it might be okay. HP are abstract, but toughness would be slightly more abstract.
I think you've really stretched yourself having both a Will score and a Perception score. The unfortunate problem is that mental scores weren't quite as great as physical scores to begin with, meaning if you split them you just have less to work with. You know, I've seen a few systems, and I can't honestly remember one that had more than three mental scores (except for HARP, which is needlessly complicated in my opinion).
I think giving Perception initiative is at least a start. Agility already has AC and Reflex, which is pretty good. You might be able to give Search to Perception. Maybe Perception gives a bonus on certain skill checks in addition to the main score. If you're really strapped then I'd suggest giving the ranged attack score to it.
I think mental attributes are simply much harder to define than physical ones. In my personal opinion I've always thought that Wisdom (and "common sense") was not something that could be measured by a score. I think if you really want a 4th score that you are going to have to make up your own mechanic for it.
(One thing you should note when converting is that M&M assumes that ability scores don't add very much, particularly to attack rolls and AC.)
Not only am I using M&M, but also True20. True20 has scores adding to abilities just like normal D&D, since class progressions aren't point-bought (which is why M&M has all of those point value restrictions and what not).
I know that there aren't too many abilities to apply to the mentals, but that's partially countered by the fact that all of the mentals will apply to casting in my games. I'm going to be using an elemental magic system, and each mental score applies to a different element, which is part of the reason I'd like 4 mentals.
Also, I can see there being four:
Intelligence: Memmory and ability to interpret the world around you.
Wisdom: Insight and ability to resist mental effects.
Perception: Ability to percieve details in people and environment.
Charisma: Ability to influence the world around you.
Though I do see many lines between Wis and Perception, I can see situations where one could have high in one and low in another.
In my campaigns, Listen and Spot checks get to be made more often than checks in all other skills together. Depending on the kind of campaign you play in, this can make Perception a vital ability for at least one character to have.
Túrin
That's sort of the current talk about Charisma; charisma has more skills than most other ability scores, and they're suposed to be important. I don't want perception to end up turning into another charisma, where only one person in the party really worries about it, you know?