The Campaign Builder's Guild

Please post any thoughts or comments about Marit here.

Thank you.

 :shy:

Hi. I like the idea of the ancient rule of dragons. I assume you will expand on what this legacy looks like a little more specifically...

My first question is this: what are the gods then? Are they merely symbolic?

Sort of post-apocalypse, magical style. Dragons, traditional; gens, mixing it up. I like the non traditional genesis.

A few random comments from my reading:
On a design note: may I ask why you chose to use humans and elves as the native races? I don't have a problem with it, I'm just curious. And are they elves with long lives, or just elves in physique?

And you mentioned the Kin, but I'm not sure what or who they are. Perhaps I missed it.

How big is the land the Gen's claim? I ask because they fought with the Dragons for so long. And besides a hatred between them, I'm trying to see the benefit in a two century war. Perhaps their hatred is just that strong...

Good start!

Quote from: TybaltHi. I like the idea of the ancient rule of dragons. I assume you will expand on what this legacy looks like a little more specifically...

My first question is this: what are the gods then? Are they merely symbolic?

Yes I will be expanding on what the Dragons' ruled looked like then and the impact that it has had on the now. A big part of that will be architecture which I know pretty much nothing about so I need to learn about it.

The gods are... well you see they are... the gods are unknown. And that is how it is meant to be. I am going with the theory that Faith fuels divinity (at least on one level) and that it is the Faith of the clerics that actually give them their abilities. I'm not saying that that the gods don't exist on some level, they just don't walk around in various forms messing with people.

Quote from: KeshFerrarA few random comments from my reading:
On a design note: may I ask why you chose to use humans and elves as the native races? I don't have a problem with it, I'm just curious. And are they elves with long lives, or just elves in physique?

I have always liked elves and humans along with half elves. But I haven't been a fan of the little, flighty elves that somehow seems to come across in some books. My elves look like elves, but are literally darker in skin tones and hair color. Also taller than the typical elves, more human size or even a bit taller. They have kept the pointed ears and the very thin look. They don't live quite as long as typical elves, but longer than humans. (More on this soon!)

Quote from: KeshFerrarAnd you mentioned the Kin, but I'm not sure what or who they are. Perhaps I missed it.

The Kin is the pantheon of the world. All of the gods except one related to at least 2 other gods. In fact most of them are from two families and the offspring of those families.

Quote from: KeshFerrarHow big is the land the Gen's claim? I ask because they fought with the Dragons for so long. And besides a hatred between them, I'm trying to see the benefit in a two century war. Perhaps their hatred is just that strong...

The Gen's land isn't nearly as big as any of the other lands that were claimed by the humans or elves. But it is an island which was the original home of the Dragons as well as their capital city. And who knows what treasures lay buried beneath a Dragon Stronghold!

I have a map drawn but I haven't figured out how to post it to the site yet. As soon as I do I will post it.

Thank you very much for the comments! I will try to post some more this weekend in the other thread.

Quote from: KeshFerrarA few random comments from my reading:
On a design note: may I ask why you chose to use humans and elves as the native races? I don't have a problem with it, I'm just curious. And are they elves with long lives, or just elves in physique?

Quote from: RavenspathI have always liked elves and humans along with half elves. But I haven't been a fan of the little, flighty elves that somehow seems to come across in some books. My elves look like elves, but are literally darker in skin tones and hair color. Also taller than the typical elves, more human size or even a bit taller. They have kept the pointed ears and the very thin look. They don't live quite as long as typical elves, but longer than humans. (More on this soon!)

[spoiler=Pardon me...] :explode:  :explode:  :explode:  :explode:  :explode:  :explode:  :explode: [/spoiler]
-----------------------------------------------------

Trust me, Ravens, you will want to rename your elves. You can include the word "elf" as a derogatory or slang word (like "halfling" in LotR) but calling them elves will just cause more confusion. At this point there are so many variations of elves nowadays that when a reader comes to the word elf in your work, not only will they not have a good grasp of what you're describing, they will have a false preconceived idea.

Quote from: RaelifinTrust me, Ravens, you will want to rename your elves. You can include the word "elf" as a derogatory or slang word (like "halfling" in LotR) but calling them elves will just cause more confusion. At this point there are so many variations of elves nowadays that when a reader comes to the word elf in your work, not only will they not have a good grasp of what you're describing, they will have a false preconceived idea.

Very good point Raelifin. I hadn't thought of that which is kind of odd since I have renamed the draconion/half-dragons. I will have to come up with a good name for them and a good description for them. Maybe that will be my task for the weekend. I appreciate your input on that fact. And I love the smiley you used! That was great.

Okay, I don't know who you are or where you came from, but around these parts, people aren't supposed to appreciate my advice, kapiche? It ruins my grumpy demeanor.

I heard you were lookin' for a badge, too. Howzis?
(//../../e107_files/public/1176566988_9_FT28528_meh.jpg) or (//../../e107_files/public/1176567040_9_FT28528_meh2.jpg)

Let me amend the previous statement.

I can't believe you told me to change the name of the elves! That was just rude! And to spite you I think I will change their name anyway.

(Is that better?)

And I love the badge you created, it is just like I envisioned it. Now if you can tell me how to implement it I would appreciate it! (But don't worry I won't let anyone know you helped.)

Hehe, that's better.

Now, which badge did you want? Left or Right?

Quote from: RaelifinHehe, that's better.

Now, which badge did you want? Left or Right?

The right one with black border.

Marit has been added to the Review Badges page: http://thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Review_Badges#M

To put the badge in your sig or post use the following code:
[spoiler][url=http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?28527][img]http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1176567040_9_FT28528_meh2.jpg[/img][/url][/spoiler]

Example: (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1176567040_9_FT28528_meh2.jpg) (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?28527)

I'm liking this setting very much. I especially like the Bonesmith class - if you are going to put it up, that would be quite interesting to read.

Also, i'm wondering what level of technological progress this world will have. From what you have so far, it seems to be similar to most other D&D settings - medieval-inspired - but there hasn't really been any details about that yet.

What it the plural of Gen?

[quote - Fourth paragraph, first post.]"Not wanting to share the lands with the Dragons they helped start the Dragon Wars."
"The next is that they Dragons and Gen had been lifelong enemies because of some forgotten slight between them."
"Not wanting to tackle the Dragons head on, the Gen used the slaves to cause the downfall of the hated Dragons."[/quote]"No matter what the reason, the Gens were instrumental in the downfall of the Dragons, for they taught the slaves magic."[/quote]"Even before the Dragons Wars ended, the lands were divided up among the humans and elvesSarani, the dominant races of Marit."[/quote]"Alingment will be used as general guideslines rather than a code to be followed at all times."[/quote]If morality and shades of gray are such a big deal, why do you have an alignment system at all? Some people would disagree, but I think having an alignment boxes a character into a specific thinking, even if it's not restrictive. "He's cool, he's LG." etc.[/list]

You note that dragons' colors have no impact on their alignment. Why not shed the D&D preconception that color is the dividing quality for a dragon, and instead move them to a more mythical/traditional role?

I know I'm a stickler for names, but Gen/Genlings aren't an artifact of stealing Genasi, are they?

(http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1164939939_9_FT22019_thinking.png)[/list]

Quote"No gnomes, halflings, dwarves or half-orcs for Players (or even existing in the world)."

Woohoo!

You mention that Marit was "boring" and that you wanted to make it more original. I applaud this, and I think the easiest way to do so is simply to reconsider the basic premises on which your world is built. Why does magic work the way it does? How do you imagine magic? Is magic more elemental than psionics? What can magic do? What influence to magic users have on society? The FR base is a fairly unrealistic one, and it usually makes sense to reinvent certain section of your wheel.

* The mention of gods in both the second and first paragraph was very odd for me to read. It seems like people would naturally worship the dragons as gods. We're talking about GODS here! Why do I hear barely anything about them in the initial paragraph? I find that in almost every society, religion plays a huge part of cultural paradigm.

* APOSTROPHES!?!? NOOOOOOOOOO! I thought for sure that I was free of those!

(http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1164939939_9_FT22019_sick.png)

*What's the scale on the map? (A very hard question to answer, I find)[/list]

Quote"When it comes to matters of protecting their own, the Sarani show an expertise and passion like no other."

Have you ever seen Braveheart? I'd be careful before saying "like no other," as it paint a picture in my mind of a million William Wallaces jumping down from the trees. @_@

Quote"Many Sarani take extended trips across the land and often find it hard to remaini in one place for long."

*cough*cannedadventurehook*cough*

I personally never understood why elves where chaotic. Longer lived society would be more lawful than usual, I would think. I'm glad you changed that.

Quote"Belanika is also often revered for her mysterious nature."

That seems like a very weak reason to me. *shrug*

Wait... the apostrophes are symbolic of an unattainable feeling of meaning in eleven life? And they're in every name? Well... okay. At least it's consistent, even if it's likely to cause me to murder every elf I come accross. :P

Sarani stats are broken for two reasons.
1) Elf stats were balanced in the PHB, as the Con penalty offset the various special abilities.
2) Always count a +1 to a stat as a +2, as the player will always make their con stat odd with an odd bonus.
I'm also not very impressed with the creativity here. Why can they sense secret doors? ;) Hey, I can't help it if I think outside the box.

Quote"Arcane magic is an important part of the genlings heritage since they are the one that taught magic to the other races."

I thought the Gen did that...

Quote"Genlings are unusually optimistic and cheerful, to the point that this can become irksome at times."

Always a bad idea in a medium-dark game.

Once again, the +1 to stats on the Genlings needs to be a +0 or a +2. I'll check out how balanced they are after you fix that. Tell me if you're not sure why a +1 is bad.

Bonesmiths are a very cool concept, and are my favorite part of the setting.
I think you have some real potential here, and that most of what's holding it back is relying on generic RPG (read: D&D) standards that don't help express your ideas. Keep it up. (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_files/public/1164939939_9_FT22019_happy.png)

 -  Raelifin

Raelifin, thank you for your input! I just wanted to give a quick thanks for your thoughts and ideas. Some of them I have been working already and I will post a more extensive response to your questions later.

I appreciate your input!

Raven

Quote from: Realm WeaverI'm liking this setting very much. I especially like the Bonesmith class - if you are going to put it up, that would be quite interesting to read.

Also, i'm wondering what level of technological progress this world will have. From what you have so far, it seems to be similar to most other D&D settings - medieval-inspired - but there hasn't really been any details about that yet.

Realm Weaver, I apologize for not responding to your post before. I missed it. As of right now the level is as you stated, medieval inspired. Though I am still toying with this. I don't want it to go as far as Eberron on steampunk, but I would like a bit more technology I think.

Quote from: RaelifinIf morality and shades of gray are such a big deal, why do you have an alignment system at all? Some people would disagree, but I think having an alignment boxes a character into a specific thinking, even if it's not restrictive. "He's cool, he's LG." etc.

Quote"No gnomes, halflings, dwarves or half-orcs for Players (or even existing in the world)."

Woohoo![/quote]Sarani stats are broken for two reasons.
1) Elf stats were balanced in the PHB, as the Con penalty offset the various special abilities.
2) Always count a +1 to a stat as a +2, as the player will always make their con stat odd with an odd bonus.
I'm also not very impressed with the creativity here. Why can they sense secret doors? ;) Hey, I can't help it if I think outside the box[/quote]Bonesmiths are a very cool concept, and are my favorite part of the setting.[/quote]

Thank you. This is what sparked the whole idea for the rework. I need to develop their history more and come up with some guidelines for their Patterns. And I am sure I will need help with the crunch on that.

I know I didn't address everything you mentioned. But I think I got most of them.

Thank you again for your input. And please keep it coming if you have time.

Hey Ravenspath -- this looks really good.  I'm just starting to look over your setting and am only a couple paragraphs in, but you've hooked me.  I'll note here what I think about things.  Also, I'll also pick out little presentation oriented things (AKA grammar), so here's my warning.

* At the end of the second paragraph your quotes changed to symbols.  You should be able to fix that, I think.  It did it again in the sixth paragraph. Also, I'm rather excited to learn what bonesmiths are.  That just sounds cool.
* In the second paragraph, put "at the time" in parentheses.  It'll read smoother.  And in the fourth paragraph, change help to helped.  
* Could you give a sentence description of what Gen and Sarani are when you introduce them?  I don't need much, but just enough to let my mind wrap around the scope of what they are.
* Sixth paragraph -- "...the best being (and smallest) being that..."  Also, I'm starting to be sad that I don't know what a Gen is, so I can't imagine what a Genling is.
* Elves and sarani are the same?
* Ahh, that type of gen!  Okay, I understand now.  We're straight.

* It took me a bit to decipher your deity family tree, but after looking through it a bit it made sense.  It looks good. I just wish I knew where the brothers came from.  I guess I'll have to wait and see!  Also, how did the two brothers feel about Lady Fate being with both of them?

Okay, very little substance in this review, but I'll get more as you get more.  I've started reading it, so now I can keep up.

Quote from: RaelifinConsider this done. While thinking about some of your questions/points I had one of those brainstorm ideas. I have not updated this in the main thread yet, but will summarize it here. The dragons will be based on the elements. The Gen used to be their slaves on another plane. The Gen revolted there and threw the dragons out. The dragons came here and established a foot hold. The Gen finally found them and destroyed them in Marit too. That gives me back story for the Dragon/Gen. It gets me away from the typical D&D dragons and just make sense to me. This also means that arcane magic will be elemental based rather than the typical D&D based. And I love elemental things in a game. I know there are others out there who have developed elemental magic systems so any suggestions any one has are welcome.

Please go ahead and explain why the +1 is bad.[/quote]
Okay, let's say you're doing a traditional 4d6 keep 3 system. A player rolls a 13, 12, 8, 11, 16, 11.
Now, if we convert that into modifiers, we get +4 net mod.
If they were playing a core race, no matter what stats they assign, the net mod remains static. Now, if you get a +1 to one stat and a -1 to another, if you put odd stats to those that get mods, you can bump the net mod up to +5. If, however, you assign it to an even stat, the net mod doesn't change. This means that it's statistically identical in most respects, but can confuse players and GMs who see it as inferior. (Note that it's still a bit weaker, but very mildly so)

Quote from: RaelifinAwesome! This paragraph inspired me (in conjunction with Dr. Who) to write an entry for Phaeoras (which I haven't posted yet).

Quote from: RaelifinOkay, let's say you're doing a traditional 4d6 keep 3 system. A player rolls a 13, 12, 8, 11, 16, 11.
Now, if we convert that into modifiers, we get +4 net mod.
If they were playing a core race, no matter what stats they assign, the net mod remains static. Now, if you get a +1 to one stat and a -1 to another, if you put odd stats to those that get mods, you can bump the net mod up to +5. If, however, you assign it to an even stat, the net mod doesn't change. This means that it's statistically identical in most respects, but can confuse players and GMs who see it as inferior. (Note that it's still a bit weaker, but very mildly so)

That makes sense. That is why I leave crunch to people that actually understand it. Thank you! I hope to have more addeded soon between the Aspects as posted in the Campaign Elements boards and more backstory.

Thank you again for your help.

Woo! Two thumbs up for Marit Revisited!

Kwestion: Why did you reserve posts if nobody is supposed to post in the thread?

Hah.  Found the discussion thread.  For some reason, the link in your new post threw me back into the forums page...

[blockquote=Ravenspath]

Marit created by the gods
Gods step into world to be apart of it
World grows, gods start to guide rather than lead
Lost Ones (former gods) create Kin (new gods) to help humanity forget them
Lost Ones withdraw even further, only nudging humanity
Dragons enter world to rule it
Lost Ones attempt a defense, but unable to do so
Lost Ones destroyed by Dragons
Dragons rule for centuries
Dragons develop psi powers in humans
Genies enter world secretly
Teach humanity magic
Dragon Wars begin
Dragons destroyed, Genies leave
Marit attempts to stabilize and rediscover itself[/blockquote]

[blockquote=RP]Marit created by the gods[/blockquote]
The Lost Ones, right?  Where did they come from?  and where they completely destroyed, or were some sent back to where they came from...(plot hook)?

[blockquote=RP]Dragons enter world to rule it
Lost Ones attempt a defense, but unable to do so[/blockquote]
Where did the dragon's come from, since they came from outside (genies too, for that matter)
And since the Kin are still around, though their religion has been underground, where did they hide after the dragon conquest?

and if the genies taught the humans magic, and you are thinking of doing a dragon based religion, why not a genie based pantheon as well...especially as the givers of magic  (in my world a lot of deities claim the position of 'patron or provider of magic'.  Such a bunch of worship hungry liars...))

Quote from: RaelifinWoo! Two thumbs up for Marit Revisited!

Kwestion: Why did you reserve posts if nobody is supposed to post in the thread?

Thanks, glad you like the new version. This one feels 'right' to me. And the reason that I reserved threads is so that I actually post to them. If I know I have empty posts I will be more likely to put the materials I have done in them.

Quote from: LordVreegHah.  Found the discussion thread.  For some reason, the link in your new post threw me back into the forums page.

Thanks for pointing that out. Fixed now.

Quote from: LordVreegThe Lost Ones, right?  Where did they come from?  and where they completely destroyed, or were some sent back to where they came from...(plot hook)[

Partially answered now in the Creation Myth post. As for if they are still around? That is something that is unknown as of yet. (Even to me.)

Quote from: LordVreegWhere did the dragon's come from, since they came from outside (genies too, for that matter)
And since the Kin are still around, though their religion has been underground, where did they hide after the dragon conquest?

and if the genies taught the humans magic, and you are thinking of doing a dragon based religion, why not a genie based pantheon as well...especially as the givers of magic  (in my world a lot of deities claim the position of 'patron or provider of magic'.  Such a bunch of worship hungry liars...))

The dragons came from the same place as the genies, I just haven't worked it out yet. They have been at war for thousands of years.

The Kin are not actual beings, but more concepts that the Lost Ones helped develop and perpetuate until they became mythical figures and gods. The religions were underground during the dragons reign, but probably not too far underground in some areas.

The dragons wanted worship and thus created the religions based on themselves. The genies on the other hand did not want to be worshiped. This is one of the major areas of contention between the two races. Not to say that there may not be a cult or two of genie worshipers, they just aren't prevalent.

Thanks for your thoughts. As always questions from the group has sparked ideas for the world. Keep them coming!

Are the Kin gods universally worshipped as presented? One thing Lord Vreeg reminds us of in his campaign world is that people don't always see things as they really are. Your world is one of conflict, so I wonder if religion as you present it might be interpreted to suit particular sides?

The Kin are not worshipped in exactly the same way around the whole land. What I have presented so far is the general idea behind each god. As I begin to develop regions and culture more you will see more indepth looks at how each church or sect views that particular god. Since they are abstract ideas rather than actual beings I feel this is easier to do.

Someone may view Belanika as a subversive deity that keeps secrets that need to be shared while someone else views her as a safe haven to tell/confess their secrets to and thus frees them of that burden. One of the churches I am working on is exactly that, a group dedicated to being confessors. Some people cannot imagine not having that church around, others want it destroyed, or at least under their control.

Great question! Thanks.

read through the 'lost creation myth'
Who had this myth and lost it?
ANd where did the Lost ones come from originally?

[blockquote=rAVEN'SPATH]So the Six became as those who sought,
becoming less and more than what they once were
bound within the cycle they had created.
The Six taught those who would listen,
Learned from those who would teach.[/blockquote]
This is when this myth takes on some personality.
I like this part the best.

Thanks for your comments.

The myth is lost for two reasons. The Lost Ones (the Six) supressed it a bit so that they could become the Lost Ones. And the dragons tried to destroy any references to the Lost Ones they could.

The Six just are, or were. They were from the Void.

Glad you liked the piece and the one part in particular. I wrote this a decade ago or longer and have redone it a couple of times.

I hope to get some more Marit pieces up this weekend so if you (or anyone has time) please take a look.