The Campaign Builder's Guild

In this vote we will decide whether the setting will be pervaded by a common tone. The only idea that was suggested in this regard that garnered some support was Dark / Gritty. Hence this poll offers three options:
a) Dark / Gritty
b) Other
c) None

@a: fairly self-explanatory at first glance. If this is chosen there will probably more discussion on how this is implemented exactly.

@b: If this is chosen a new Discussion: Tone thread will be opened to discuss what the tone of the setting will be. This option is also for those who want the setting to have a region-specific (but pre-defined) tone statement.

@c: This means there will be no general tone statement for the setting. We will leave it up to the individual DM.

As always, discussion is for other threads, though you can post here to give a motivation for your vote.

;) Túrin

Dark and gritty seems much more befitting an oppressive empire and moral ambiguity, as well as struggling city-states fighting for their survival in wild barbaric lands. I'm a dark and gritty person myself however, so perhaps my view is a bit tainted.

-Nasty-

I voted for "dark and gritty", but I'd like to clarrify. I think "harsh" is a better word for what I'd like to see (and I do think that WP/VP needs to be tossed into the rules assortment to help things be a litle more harsh).

i gotta vote against 'dark and gritty'. i get enough dark in the news. 'harsh' i could deal with, sure. (though i see no reason to add in different mechanics for harshness).

my preference though, really, is to just let each dm do whatever--which i suspect is what will happen anyway :)

i've got to agree with brainface,  the tone is really the DMs call.

even if we 'set' the tone officially here, that really doesnt mean anything to individual DMs.

I think a general tone may help us when writing flavortext fro the world,  but I dont think we can decide what type of game a DM runs.

I voted none, for the reasons already stated.  I personally will deisregard any tone implemented in favor of my standard "high fantasy" style.  I would hate to have to rework the setting just to play it in a different manner.  So yeah, leave it up to the individual DM.

I went ahead and voted "None," as I think it should just be the DM's call.  I mean, if I run it, I will probably run it pretty "dark and gritty," but I don't think should be limiting ourselves to that if other people want to run a "bright and bunny-hugging" campaign.

I voted Dark n Gritty, but the others convinced me - I'd like to unoffically change my vote to None.

I like to vote 'Dark and Gritty" because if we didn't have any tone to set our campaign on, we'd have a major variation in the way that DMs play, and to me -when we're creating a COMMUNITY project- it should be closely tied to everyone. Just my thoughts.

Quotewhen we're creating a COMMUNITY project

well, as a community setting, it should also be as inclusive as possible, without sacrificing too much cohesion ;)

So the current score is (I'm officially changing Xathan's vote here) 6-5. It can still go either way, so I encourage anyone who hasn't voted to do so. I'll close this vote Tuesday evening (which means Tuesday morning for the Americans among us).

Hmmm, I gotta be honest, the more I think about it, the more I think this particular poll/vote/discussion is not really necessary - and may even be harmful.  I think we could seriously be limiting ourselves by settling on one particular tone.  Any DM should be able to play any way they like.  Maybe certain aspects of the campaign will be dark and gritty (the racism between different city-states and the terrible, ardous journies through the Barrns), but labling the entire campaign thus, I think, is going to run off potential players, as well as potential participants in its creation....

I don't think I can actually close a poll, but I'm officially ending this vote now. Note that Xathan changed his vote along the way, which means we ended up with a tie (Dark/Gritty 6, Other 0, None 6).

This thread is now open to further discussion of this topic.

To kick of the discussion, I'll offer my interpretation of the voting result: the world will be written in a dark/gritty way. That is, the dark/gritty thing will be used to create uniformity in style when writing up the end result of Cebegia, but will not have a (major) influence on the setting itself.

Túrin

So no entrail-dragging zombie babies for creatures?

Quote from: TúrinTo kick of the discussion, I'll offer my interpretation of the voting result: the world will be written in a dark/gritty way. That is, the dark/gritty thing will be used to create uniformity in style when writing up the end result of Cebegia, but will not have a (major) influence on the setting itself.

Túrin

that statement doesn't make sense to me. wont the writing of the setting pretty much define the setting, in its entirety? :/ Could you clarify this?

Here's my enterpretation: there can be strong elements of both darkness and grit in cebegia, but they wont necessarilly be universal. kids will, on occasion, eat ice cream. but there can also be entrail dragging zombies--maybe not entrail dragging zombie babies :(. unless the zombie babies are also eating ice cream.

Quote from: brainfaceThere can be strong elements of both darkness and grit in cebegia, but they wont necessarilly be universal.  Kids will, on occasion, eat ice cream. But there can also be entrail dragging zombies--maybe not entrail dragging zombie babies  . unless the zombie babies are also eating ice cream.

I officially nominate this as a 'core ethos statement' candidate.

... can I get a '2nd' ?

We already have a core ethos statement. But I'll second that I like what brainface said.

Quote from: TúrinWe already have a core ethos statement. But I'll second that I like what brainface said.

thats really all i ask. :D .

I don't think people really have the concept of a dark and gritty tone understood. Dark and gritty never meant that there's no ice cream...

Think of things like the Crow: dirty, corrupt, violent world. But there was kind hearted beat cop, the crow himself, the little girl, and the whole true love story behind it all.

What about the Professional? Same kind of thing. Drugs, violence, abuse, but the hero was an assassin, who took in an orphan and gave his life to protect her.

A dark and gritty world doesn't have to be Ravenloft. It can just have no clear good guys and bad guys. Maybe there's corruption in everything, and at times the empire seems justified, while at other times they seem like warmongers. Executions might be common public occasions, with questionably expediant trials. Still the imperial guard is led by paladin-like knights in shining armor, who stop to help those in need, and valiantly defend the innocent.

On the flip side, maybe the totem warriors ambush imperial caravans, and kill every man, woman, and child. They might be starving for supplies in their city-states, but it doesn't excuse their ruthlessness. It's the whole concept of violence begetting violence, and the meaning of the war becoming lost in the mess of it all.

All dark and gritty means to me is that the really heroic people are outnumbered by the really nasty people. It also means that most commoners are poor and their living conditions are not so great. It does not mean that children won't play. Think of the children in London who played games in the streets during WWII, while surrounded by burned out buildings ruins...that's dark and gritty to me.

-Nasty-

Nasty's right; don't really have much to say on that. There's a war going on; the city states are being pressured and attacked, and are forced to defend themselves. The Empire will be spreading propaganda to keep their people on their side, or some areas of the Empire (the inner region) won't even know about the war.

One other thing; a dark and gritty tone determines what the world looks and feels like, but it has ne bearing upon the kind of stories you can run. The backdrop and theme may have undertones of hate, prejudice, and oppression, but you could still run a campy action adventure (a la firefly) in that kind of setting. You can still run a love story (a la Casblanca). You can still run a dramitic tragedy (a la Hamlet). You can still run a kick in the door monster bash (a la Doom). Tone does limit story options, in enables them.

-Nasty-

QuoteAll dark and gritty means to me is that the really heroic people are outnumbered by the really nasty people. It also means that most commoners are poor and their living conditions are not so great. It does not mean that children won't play. Think of the children in London who played games in the streets during WWII, while surrounded by burned out buildings ruins...that's dark and gritty to me.

yeahhh... one of the reasons i voted against it was because it still had a vaguely undefined meaning. I'm not convinced everyone here means the same thing when they say 'dark and gritty'. I mean, gawd, it's not like it's in the *dictionary*.

I can agree with your post as a general statement of theme. I guess it's kinda long, though. :) (while i wouldn't have agreed with, you know--'dark and gritty like revanloft')

Quoteyeahhh... one of the reasons i voted against it was because it still had a vaguely undefined meaning. I'm not convinced everyone here means the same thing when they say 'dark and gritty'. I mean, gawd, it's not like it's in the *dictionary*.

That sir was the whole reason for my post. People don't seem to understand Tone as well as I had expected. Tone makes things easier to define and design, not more challenging or limiting. If you don't agree with my vision of "dark and gritty," propose your own. If you think there is a better tone for the setting, propose that one instead.

-Nasty-