Many of you know that one of the biggest changes in my campaign setting is that I am trying to switch magic to a fully elemental system. In the end, I may have characters put points into chakras, which will be used to determine their caster level for each element, and also as prerequisites for some feats.
My elemental magic will be based primarily on the Japanese/Greek elemental system: Air, Earth, Fire, Water, Void/Ether. Each element will be subdivided into spheres, which will replace the schools of magic. Each element will have three spheres, except for Void: void has 5 spheres, but four are going to be limited in some way based on alignment or other factors.
The spheres I have currently are as follows:
Air
Travel: Spells governing speed, flight, teleportation, and other movement effects.
Perception: Spells which enhance, alter, or trick the senses.
Air: Spells utilizing air, the weather, or electricity.
Earth
Protection: Spells which protect the target, ward intruders, or otherwise increase defense.
Artifice: Spells which create or alter non-living matter.
Earth: Spells utilizing stone, metal, plants, or acid.
Fire
Force: Spells utilizing force and relating to strength.
Charm: Spells which affect the emotions of the target.
Fire: Spells utilizing fire ...
Water
Transformation: Spells which physically alter living creatures.
Knowledge: Spells which seek answers.
Water: Spells utilizing water and cold.
Void
Healing (Positive): Spells which heal and cleanse living creatures.
Light (Positive): Spells which utilize light, relate to the sun, and which harm or weaken the undead.
Destruction (Negative): Spells which harm and taint living creatures.
Darkness (Negative): Spells which utilize shadow, and which create or enhance the undead.
Void: Spells relating to luck, pure magic, and effects combining or not covered by the other elements.
As you can see, many of the spheres match up with domains. This was intentional, as I originally intended to use the PHB classes (with spell-list altertations). Now that I will only use one spontanious caster and one preparatory caster, and divine casting status will be determined by a "Desciple" feat, I'm using the spheres in place of the schools. Right now, I am trying to reconcile the overlap between Perception and Knowledge: Knowledge has to be useful enough, so it will probably have to encompass all of divination, since illusion is more than enough to fill a whole sphere (as long as I use clerical divinations for Knowledge, and possibly add in some psion ones, it might be strong enough to fill a whole sphere).
What say you to this set up? I'd like some assistance with things as I'm having a hard time filing all of the spells into the elements while maintaining thematic balance.
Why is acid part of earth? I really don't get it.
I can maybe see how water and acid go together, but acid and earth?
And lightning with air? May you please explain?
I like it, Xeviat. I find most of the choices intuitive.
But there are seven chakras, and you only have five elements. Do you plan anything for the other two?
You might be vaguely interested in my own use of chakras as tied to supernatural abilities (http://www.thecbg.org/settings/137/index.php?page=cosmology/magic#Projections).
Can you be more specific with what spells you have a hard time fitting in? Everything seems to fit pretty well to me.
Quote from: http://www.shadowfell.org/index.php?page=magic.htmlShadowfell Magic Page[/url]
@Teeter-toter, air is "spells utilizing weather, air, or electricity". So, air has storms in it's domain of powers, and many storms have lightning. Besides, what would you put lightning under?
Quote from: Phoenix KnightCan you be more specific with what spells you have a hard time fitting in? Everything seems to fit pretty well to me.
I think it's more an issue of balance than "fitting." When I did my research on developing an elemental system, I found some elements inherently more powerful than others, which means that some elements just wouldn't get played often.
Uranium, lightning is not strictly an element, in either the chemical sense, or the classical sense (classical is what this is going by, such as the Classical Elements (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_Element) of Greece and China. In the classical elements, it would mostly fall somewhere between Fire and Air.
I'm not saying it is an element, just that lightning comes from storms, which are controlled by the air elemtn in Xeviat's thing.
Quote from: IshmaylQuote from: http://www.shadowfell.org/index.php?page=magic.htmlShadowfell Magic Page[/url]
Me too! :whoa: What is about elements that drives some of us?
Quote from: XeviatWhat say you to this set up? I'd like some assistance with things as I'm having a hard time filing all of the spells into the elements while maintaining thematic balance.
Will some spells be in multiple areas? I don't see a problem with this.
My first instinct would have been to put Force under Earth, but I like what you did with it under Fire and Protection under Earth instead.
Overall I think it looks very good and I repeat the question of others (in other forms). Are you looking for how to fit spells into the Spheres or looking for balance? Or both? Can you give some examples?
Balance, primarily. The largest current problem is with water; Divination is generally a weak school, so things need to be added to the Knowledge sphere to empower it (if certain Clairsentience powers from XPH are converted to spells and added to the Knowledge sphere, there might be less of a problem).
Acid, Electricity, and Cold are odd energy types. I placed them where I did primarily because that is where they are placed in standard D&D convention. I would prefer to have Acid be Earth/Water (Acids are chemicals that, when disolved in water, create excess protons), Electricity be Air/Fire (energized air), and Cold be Air/Water (moving air can super chill substances). But, I'm not sure it would be possible to make reasonably useful demi-spheres. If Acid, Electricity, and Cold are made as demispheres, then Metal could be the demisphere of Earth and Fire, but I'm not sure if these spheres could be made potent enough.
Currently, I explain acid being earth because it is a "corrupted water"; it doesn't serve its functions as water anymore. It does cause some oddities currently, like changing the Earth subtype to be immune to acid, when not all rocks/metals are immune to the same acids, and having Air be weak to acid, but that's a bridge I'll have to cross later.
As for multi-elemental spells, aside from the possibilities of the demispheres above, I'm not considering them.
As for the seven chakras, I am having a hard time with my research on them, but I may have them be this: air, earth, fire, water, void, positive, and negative. If I do this, then void, positive, and negative could each be given 2 spheres (void would be split into magic and luck).
So yes, Ishy is right; I need to make sure that every element is balanced, so that every element gets use. Originally I was going to go with the OA system, and have healing be Water (which greatly increases its usefulness), but then I had a hard time picking where Negative energy spells would go (opposites would dictate that they'd be fire, logic would dictate that they'd be void).
Sun sphere stuff could easily be fire, Healing sphere stuff could easily be water. But, Destruction would also want to be fire, and Darkness gets questionable. All of this would empower Fire and Water, but it might leave Air and Earth in the cold.
I'm willing to generally tweek around the spheres, or even change the spheres, in the name of balance, if it remains logical as to why the elements are what they are.
Aether (void, or in my case the Indian akasha) is more-or-less representative of the force of life, so it makes sense positive energy would be grouped there.
Since the chakras tend to ascend through the basic elements (from earth in Muladhara all the way to air in Anahata), those are easier to assign. The Vishuddha (throat) chakra is associated with life, which makes the natural connection to void (positive energy).
The last two (third eye and crown) are arguably the most powerful, but also the most specialized, at least in terms of D&D spells. They're not associated with elements, so I guess you could say the trade-off for players having to invest points in a chakra with fewer spells, is that those spells are more powerful.
They deal with light, time, and space. Therefore, one could fold things like time stop, teleport, and so forth into them.
In line with associating positive energy with void, I could actually also see associating negative. It is the opposite side of the same coin, so-to-speak (everything and nothing), and it certainly does not fit in another chakra well.
I would say a charka that gives power of both positive and negative energy might be powerful enough on its own, if you wanted to fill out the third eye and crown chakras with other powers. Feel free to steal anything you like from my site as to where powers fall; I don't use D&D magic, so it won't work out perfectly, but it may give you an idea.
On the other matter, in the past I tried the meta-elemental route, too, and discovered there wasn't enough material to support it. One route I tried in the past was that meta-elements were created by combining the skills of the two elements (so they use part of the power from earth, part from water). However, scientifically, acid fits pretty well with earth. The others generally fit where you put them in terms of fantasy norms, if for no other reason.
I have electrokinesis (which would cover any form of lightning ability) in Crown chakra because it deals with energy, but that might not work as well for you if you are trying to balance all the elements.
I would point out another advantage of your current settup is having at least one direct-damage energy type for each of the four basic elements. With sonic (air) you wind up with two in one, but sonic has always been an odd energy type.
I'm not sure you have a balance problem. I'd would say, as with different schools of magic, they simply suit different play-styles. For example, you also have transformation in water, which seems like something that could cover most of transmutation and potentially be very powerful - for the kind of player that prefers that over blasting stuff. If you prefer blasting stuff, maybe water is not the chakra you want to invest in.
One obvious concern is "force" since it is generally the "best" damage type in D&D. Fire resistance is one of the most common, so maybe it's only fair, but on the other hand, there are lots of fire-damage spells, too.
Well, evocations are going to take on their Expanded Psionics Handbook set up: evocation spells will be differentiated by their target and area, while the energy type used will be determined by the caster at the time of casting.
I think it will be simpler for me to make my own definitions for the chakras; I have researched them, and the historical definitions in all of the instances I have read of them don't really work for game balance. Currently, I'm thinking that Lawful and Good characters will have a leaning towards the Positive side of Void, while Chaotic and Evil characters will have a leaning towards the Negative side of Void.
You are right pointing out Sonic as Air; this is another reason for my consideration of demispheres. Fire and Air are both active elements, so I'm fine with them having a damage type of their own for evocations, but earth and water are passive elements and I'd be fine with them requiring mixtures to use the evocations.
But if the only effects of demispheres were different damage types in evocations, and a handful of other spells, I don't think they'd be worth it.
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Here's some more info for the setting's set up. There will be no distintion between Arcane and Divine magic; magic is magic. There will only be two casting classes: the Mage and the Sorcerers. Magi are those who study the elements and learn to master them, while Sorcerers are those born with a mutant chakra that causes them to draw in elemental energy from the world around them automatically (scientifically speaking, sorcerers first learn to cast spells merely as an outlet to release this excess energy, as it might otherwise harm or kill them if allowed to build up).
Sorcerers will be required to choose a focused element, which determines their mutant chakra and also determines their dead chakra. A sorcerer's mutation causes one chakra to grow out of control and expand in size so much that it consumes the opposed element's chakra and takes over its functions. For instance, an Air sorcerer has an attrophied and effectively dead earth chakra, and thus is incapable of using earth magic.
Magi will have the option of specializing in an element or a sphere (I haven't decided yet).
Both classes can take the "Disciple of the Divine" feat, which allows them to select two non-opposed spheres from the deity's spheres. The Disciple of the Divine feat grants domain powers, but links the caster's magic to a Divine source, requiring the caster to abide by a code of conduct and the tenants of their deity's faith. This is the only distinction between an "arcane" or "divine" caster.
Oh, and sorcerers are spontanious casters, while magi are preparatory casters.
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As for energy and elemental spells (spells from the elemental spheres), the evocations will have changable energy types, while elemental spells will be unique to each energy. Gust of Wind, for example, is air, while Energy Ball (a 20 ft. burst centered on the target) is variable. Sonic will not be allowed as an evocation energy type; heck, I might even merge sonic and force; sound travels through all mediums, so it might not have to be linked to air. I've wanted to turn force into more of a descriptor instead of an energy type, and have most force spells deal a form of physical damage (magic missile would be bludgeoning, mordy's sword would be slashing ...). I would need to discuss this more with others.
Looking at the last post...
Section 1: I've used demi-spheres in the past, and I could see them working if you didn't have to pay for them, but they existed as a function of holding both adjacent elemntal skills.
Section 2: I like your divine/arcane set-up, and the magi/sorceror difference seems to work out nicely. Knowing your crunch-manipulating ways, I assume yo've cunngly balanced all of this out already.
Section 3: I've never like changeable energy types, as I'd personally have a caster learn such a spell as a specific energy type and keep it that way. Also, force spells as physical damage is as I've always seen it, but you might want to keep the "damages incorporeal beings" effect for balance.
Finishing Notes: I love the elements too. Personally, I've always aligned them on a compass rose. Starting from North and going clockwise, including demi-elements... Wind, lightning, Fire, metal, Earth, plant/life, Water, cold, and Void/Magic in the center.
Just some food for thought, and I'll watch this thread as well as I am able.
I just recently decided that the Knowledge Sphere and the Illusion Sphere will be switched; Knowledge will be renamed Perception and moved to Air, and Illusion will be Water.
This cements Water as the deceptive element, ever changing, and Air is the element of quick body and mind.
I will be taking XPH Clairvoyant powers and converting them into spells, to further padd up the Divination school so its potent enough to stand next to the other mental spheres.
Sounds good. Good luck, and let us know if your results are effective!
As the system has been unfolding, it recently became apparent that demispheres would be very useful. So, here are the spheres in total once more:
Air: Air, Travel, and Divination; Electricity (Fire), and Cold (Water).
Fire: Fire, Power, and Charm; Forge (Earth), and Electricity (Air).
Earth: Earth, Protection, and Ward; Acid (Water), and Forge (Fire).
Water: Water, Transformation, and Trickery; Cold (Air), and Acid (Earth).
Right now, the biggest issues is making sure each of the demispheres are as large and potent as the main spheres.
Lastly, I've been working on the classes more, so expect to see them soon.
Is "forge" supposed to be like metal? Or is it supposed to be "force?" Or something else entirely?
Forge is metal, yes. I could have just called it metal, but it also deal with the creation of metal items (since you generally need fire to forge metal).