The Campaign Builder's Guild

The Archives => Meta (Archived) => Topic started by: Xeviat on June 10, 2007, 02:46:02 PM

Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Xeviat on June 10, 2007, 02:46:02 PM
Since this class will not ultimately make it into my setting as a base class, I feel I can afford to post it up here for review before putting it on my web-space. Please, be honest, but gentle. I know that this class is more powerful than the Paladin, but that was the point; my opinion is that the Paladin is slightly underpowered in any role other than a mounted charger, for which the opportunity to use is dictated by the game ran.

So, without further delay, behold the Templar.

[note]I forgot to change the save progression and spell progression. It is currently using an idea I had for a more regular growth, that would help with multiclassing and fractional bonuses. If you don't like it, just use the standard save progressions, and use the current Paladin's spellcasting (don't forget to add the domain spells, though). Thanks folks.[/note]
TEMPLAR[/size][/u]
Templar are warrior priests, defenders of the holy sites and faithful people of the world. They are more militant than clerics, receiving extensive training in the arts of divine warfare. Whether faithful to the benevolent or malevolent deities, templar can be found at or around their temples, protecting the faithful and relics of their faith from a world that may seek to bring them harm. This devotion requires utter obedience to oneâ,¬,,¢s faith, but they gain divine protection of their body and mind.
Adventurers: Templar view their adventures as quests in the service of their faith. Whether their quests are self decided or put upon them by an authority figure, templar take these tasks very seriously. They are typically charged with the defense of their temple, but they are often sent out to strike against an enemy temple or opposing priests, or to bring a divine relic back to their temple. Templar welcome all challenges as tests of their faith and martial prowess.
Characteristics: A templar's divine power grants them several abilities, from the ability to channel energy through their weapon, to spell power, to divine protection. Templar wield their deity's favored weapon with pride; it is through this weapon that they are able to channel their energy. Experienced templar are able to ignore damage and resist many magical effects. Their magic is generally used to augment their battle capabilities.
Alignment: Like clerics, a templar's alignment is dependent upon their deities. Like clerics, a templarâ,¬,,¢s alignment must be within one step of their deityâ,¬,,¢s.
Background: Many people travel to a temple to stay in order to receive insight into the world around them and to serve their faiths. Templar are often drawn from those wishing to serve a deity but who show more physical prowess than mental. Some templar feel a divine calling, and it is these templar who are most often seen abroad performing quests in the name of their faith.
Races: Just as every race has a need for clerics, every race has a need for the battle prowess of the templar. Of all the races, human templar are most likely to undertake quests in the service of their temple, second to the dwarves. The templar of other races are typically charged with the defense of their temple and rarely see the world in large. Of the savage races, templar are rare but often found protecting tribal priests (orc templar are almost as highly revered as orc barbarians).
Other Classes: Templar have deep respect for clerics of their faith, and they are often charged with their protection. Many templar feel spiritually inferior to their clerics, who have a deeper connection to the divine than them, so they may feel more close to more common warriors. Most templar easily understand the need for skill users and the power of arcane magic. Otherwise, a templar's opinion of other classes will be decided by their deity's views; those faithful to an enemy church will gain a templar's immediate animosity, while rogues may be looked down on by a templar of a lawful deity.
Role: The templar is a martially oriented class, and it's role in most groups is as a melee combatant. Few templar choose to focus in a ranged weapon, so most are found on the front line were their defensive abilities can be used to great effect. Due to their often high Charisma scores, templar are often found as the leaders (or at least the face) of adventuring companies.

[table=Templar]
[tr][th]Level[/th][th]BAB[/th][th]Fort[/th][th]Ref[/th][th]Will[/th][th]Special[/th][th]1st[/th][th]2nd[/th][th]3rd[/th][th]4th[/th][/tr]
[tr][th]1st[/th][td]+1[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+2[/td][td]Smite 1/day, detect alignment[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]2nd[/th][td]+2[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+3[/td][td]Deity's Weapon Focus[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]3rd[/th][td]+3[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+1[/td][td]+3[/td][td]Divine Protection[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]4th[/th][td]+4[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+4[/td][td]Domain[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]5th[/th][td]+5[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+4[/td][td]Smite 2/day, War Companion[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]6th[/th][td]+6[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+5[/td][td][/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]7th[/th][td]+7[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+2[/td][td]+5[/td][td]Damage Reduction 1/-[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]8th[/th][td]+8[/td][td]+6[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+6[/td][td]Deity's Weapon Specialization[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]9th[/th][td]+9[/td][td]+6[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+6[/td][td]Mettle[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]10th[/th][td]+10[/td][td]+7[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+7[/td][td]Smite 3/day, Damage Reduction 2/-[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]11th[/th][td]+11[/td][td]+7[/td][td]+3[/td][td]+7[/td][td]Divine Aura[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]12th[/th][td]+12[/td][td]+8[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+8[/td][td][/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]13th[/th][td]+13[/td][td]+8[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+8[/td][td]Damage Reduction 3/-[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]14th[/th][td]+14[/td][td]+9[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+9[/td][td]Greater Deity's Weapon Focus[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]15th[/th][td]+15[/td][td]+9[/td][td]+4[/td][td]+9[/td][td]Smite 4/day[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]16th[/th][td]+16[/td][td]+10[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+10[/td][td]Damage Reduction 4/-[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]17th[/th][td]+17[/td][td]+10[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+10[/td][td][/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][td]1+1[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]18th[/th][td]+18[/td][td]+11[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+11[/td][td][/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]19th[/th][td]+19[/td][td]+11[/td][td]+5[/td][td]+11[/td][td]Damage Reduction 5/-[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]2+1[/td][/tr]
[tr][th]20th[/th][td]+20[/td][td]+12[/td][td]+6[/td][td]+12[/td][td]Smite 5/day, Greater Deity's Weapon Specialization[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][td]3+1[/td][/tr]
[/table]

GAME RULE INFORMATION
Templar have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Wisdom is important to the Templar's spellcasting and Charisma is important to their special abilities, while Strength and Constitution aid the Templar in battle. Dexterity and Intelligence are not required by Templar, though Templar with unique fighting styles may favor these ability scores.
Alignment: Any; must be within one step of deity's.
Hit Die: d10
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (religion), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, and Spellcraft.

Class Features
Proficiencies: Templar are proficient with simple and martial weapons, as well as all armor and shields (except tower shields).
Smite (Su): Templar are able to make a smite attack once per day, an attack infused with their deityâ,¬,,¢s power and their own personal strength. This is a single attack that must be made with their deityâ,¬,,¢s favored weapon. The smite grants an attack bonus equal to the templar's Charisma modifier and a damage bonus equal to the templar's class level (if the attack hits). The templar must declare the smite before making the attack. At 5th level and every 5 levels after (10 and 15), the templar may make one additional smite attack per day.
Detect Alignment (Su): At will, a templar can cast detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, or detect law, as the spell. The templar must choose which alignment they target with this ability at first level; it must be an alignment opposed by one's own alignment and one's deity's (a LN deity opposes chaos, a CG deity opposes evil or law). A templar of a neutral deity with a neutral alignment can choose any alignment to oppose. This choice determines later abilities as well.
Deity's Weapon Focus: At 2nd level, templar gain the Weapon Focus feat as a bonus feat. They must select their deity's favored weapon.
Divine Protection (Su): At 3rd level, templar gain the grace and protection of their deity. From now on, they are protected by a protection effect which protects against the same alignment their detect alignment ability detects. This ability functions as protection from evil, except for the previous stipulation. This can be dispelled (it's caster level is equal to the templar's class level), but the templar can resume it as a swift action.
Domain: At 4th level, templar choose one domain from the domains offered by their deity. For purposes of the domain's ability, their cleric level is equal to their templar level minus 3.
Spells Prepared per Day: Beginning at 4th level, a templar gains the ability to prepare a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the templar spell list. A templar may prepare and cast any spell on the templar spell list, provided they possess a Wisdom score equal to 10 + the spellâ,¬,,¢s level. Alignment restrictions mean that casting some spells is impossible as well.

A templar may prepare a number of spells each day for each spell level based on their class table. Once prepared, a templar may pay mana to cast from these prepared spells freely, but they cannot cast a spell which they have not prepared for that day. Templar also may prepare one spell per spell level from their domain. The saving throw DC for templar spells is equal to 10 + the spell's level + the templar's Wisdom modifier. They gain bonus spell slots from their Wisdom score.

A templar prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does. A templar may prepare and cast any spell on the templar spell list, provided that they can cast spells of that level, but they must choose which spells to prepare during their daily meditation. Templar cannot spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells in the way a cleric can.

A templar cannot cast spells of an alignment opposed to their own, or a spell of an alignment opposed to their deityâ,¬,,¢s alignment. A good templar cannot cast evil spells, and vice versa. Spells associated with the alignments of chaos, evil, good, and law are identified as such on the "School, Subschool and Descriptors" line of the spell description.

A templarâ,¬,,¢s caster level for their templar spells is equal to half their class level.
War Companion (Su): At 5th level, templar gain the service of a spiritual war companion. This companion usually takes the form of a heavy horse (for a Medium templar) or a pony (for a Small templar) to serve as a battle mount, but some templar are gifted with a wolf, eagle, or other suitable war companion (choose from the 1st level druid's list of animal companions). The companion is an elite animal with the planar template associated with the templarâ,¬,,¢s deity's home plane (such as the celestial template or fiendish template).

Once per day, as a full-round action, a templar may magically call her companion from the spiritual realm in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-fourth the templarâ,¬,,¢s level. The companion immediately appears adjacent to the templar and remains for 2 hours per templar level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the templar may release a particular companion from service.

Each time the companion is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The companion also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a companion is a conjuration (calling) effect.

As the templar gains levels, their war companion gains additional abilities (see the Paladin warhorse table).

Should the templarâ,¬,,¢s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The templar may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a templar level, whichever comes first, even if the companion is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the templar takes a â,¬'1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
Damage Reduction (Ex): Starting at 7th level, templar have the ability to shrug off some amount of injury from each blow or attack. Subtract 1 from the damage the templar takes each time they are dealt damage. At 10th level, and every 3 levels there after, this damage reduction increases by 1. Damage reduction can reduce damage to 0 but not below 0.
Deity's Weapon Specialization: At 8th level, templar gain the Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat. They must select their deity's favored weapon.
Mettle (Ex): Starting at 9th level, templar gain the ability to shake off attacks which target their being and mind. If they are the target of a spell or ability that allows a Will or Fortitude save for partial or half effect, they instead suffer no effect on a successful saving throw.
Divine Aura (Su): At 11th level, a templar's divine protection extends to those around them. Rather than being the target of a protection spell, the templar is now the center of a constant magic circle spell, as appropriate for their detect alignment ability. As with their divine protection ability, this can be dispelled, but they can reactivate it as an immediate action.
Greater Deity's Weapon Focus: At 14th level, templar gain the Greater Weapon Focus feat as a bonus feat. They must select their deity's favored weapon.
Greater Deity's Weapon Specialization: At 20th level, templar gain the Greater Weapon Specialization feat as a bonus feat. They must select their deity's favored weapon.

Ex-Templar
A templar who grossly violated the code of conduct expected by their faith (generally acting in ways opposed to the faith's alignment or purposes), or whose alignment changes to more than one step away from their deityâ,¬,,¢s, loses all spells and class features and cannot gain levels as a templar until they atone. A templar who wishes to change deities (due to a change of heart or alignment), becomes an Ex-Templar until they are accepted by their new faith and have an atonement spell cast upon them by a cleric of their new faith. This choice change may change their detect alignment, divine protection, and divine aura ability, and their smite and deity's weapon focus ability will change to match that of the new deity.

TEMPLAR SPELLS
1ST-LEVEL TEMPLAR SPELLS
Bane: Enemies take â,¬'1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and saves against fear.
Bless Water M: Makes holy water.
Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Curse Water M: Makes unholy water.
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Detect Undead: Reveals undead within 60 ft.
Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Divine Weapon: Weapon strikes true against deityâ,¬,,¢s foes. (as bless weapon, but alignment is chosen)
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Inflict Light Wounds A: Touch deals 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Virtue: Gain 1 temporary hit point.
2ND-LEVEL TEMPLAR SPELLS
Bearâ,¬,,¢s Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
Bullâ,¬,,¢s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Darkness: 20-ft. radius of supernatural shadow.
Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Eagleâ,¬,,¢s Splendor A: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
Hold Person: Paralyzes creature for 1 round/level.
Owlâ,¬,,¢s Wisdom A: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Shield Other F: You take half of subjectâ,¬,,¢s damage.
Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
3RD-LEVEL TEMPLAR SPELLS
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Bestow Curse: â,¬'6 to an ability score; â,¬'4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action.
Blindness/Deafness A: Makes subject blinded or deafened.
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Dispel Magic: Cancels magic spells and effects.
Heal Mount: As heal on warhorse or other special mount.
Magic Circle against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: As protection spells, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Prayer: Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies â,¬'1 penalty.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
4TH-LEVEL TEMPLAR SPELLS
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dispel Chaos/Evil/Good/Law: +4 bonus against attacks.
Divine Sword: Weapon becomes +5, deals +2d6 damage against chosen alignment. (as holy sword, except you choose alignment)
Mark of Justice: Designates action that will trigger curse on subject.
Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Poison: Touch deals 1d10 Con damage, repeats in 1 min.
Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Polycarp on June 10, 2007, 03:52:02 PM
I don't think it's really problematic, since you're going for something more powerful than the paladin anyway, but the "divine protection" ability is way, way to powerful, especially for 3rd level.  It means the Templar is immune to possession and dominate spells and abilities, from any source, and that almost no summoned creatures will be able to touch him (except those of his own alignment, and those with good enough spell resistance).  That is an extraordinarily powerful ability, given that it's essentially permanent unless the Templar is in an antimagic field.  I'd rethink that power - that bunch of immunities is a little too good.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Matt Larkin (author) on June 10, 2007, 03:52:47 PM
I would say it works well as a fighter/cleric, since you can get some spells without giving up weapon spec.  For most roles, though, I would probably favor pure fighter or pure cleric.

In terms of flavor, I think it wins out over the standard paladin.  It can fit more easily into more campaigns, and can be more easily justified as organizations.

I personally see the standard paladin as having slightly more appealing special abilities, so I have to debate this class being stronger.  Divine Grace and Lay on Hands are hard to give up for the abilities offered here.

You get weapon spec so late (8th compared to 4th for a fighter) I find it's benefits more questionable.  That is, I think the real thing that bothers me, is I see a Fighter 4/Paladin 4 coming out ahead of this class at 8th level.  Even a Fighter 4/Cleric 4 is probably superior.  Slightly fewer hit points and one lower BAB in exchange for an extra feat, more spells and so on.

I was never fond of the paladin's special mount.  At a glance, I don't see any significant difference between that and the War Companion.

However, I think another thing it does better than a standard paladin is the spread of abilities, which has always been a little front-loaded for a paladin.  The trade-off with this is there is less reason for the class to shine, especially when considered with standard games where many players want prestige classes.

Clearly this class give better spells, though some may mourn the loss of bless weapon (just about the only paladin spell I used often) and holy sword.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Xeviat on June 10, 2007, 04:07:05 PM
Mithridates, does Protection from Evil protect you against mind control when the caster is not evil? The Templar's divine protection is based on their chosen alignment.

As for the domain, in my games I've altered some of the domains. Sun gives turn undead, Healing gives lay on hands, Death gives rebuke undead ... I forgot to mention that. But I don't think that's entirely necessary for this class to work.

At 8th level, this class will have 2nd level spells, their war companion (the new advantage I gave it is the ability to have creatures other than a horse, so you aren't married to being mounted), DR 1/-, a permanant protection from evil effect, a domain, and 2 smites at +8 damage (with no alignment restriction on the smite), where the Fighter4/Paladin 4 will have some lay on hands and some turn (the turning will be useless except to power divine feats), 1 more fighter bonus feat (since the other two have to buy focus and specialization), divine grace, immunity to disease, and immunity to fear+aura of courage.

The core paladin is quite frontloaded, so perhaps that's what's causing that little hiccough.

Oh, and I didn't mean to remove Bless Weapon and Holy Sword; the Blackguard offers evil versions, and I meant to put both versions on it. Their spells aren't necessarily better than the Paladin's, due to alignment restrictions cutting the spell-list.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Polycarp on June 10, 2007, 09:47:04 PM
Quote from: Kap'n XeviatMithridates, does Protection from Evil protect you against mind control when the caster is not evil? The Templar's divine protection is based on their chosen alignment.

Yes, which is why it is overpowered.

Quote from: SRDThird, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect.

So basically, the ability as written is a permanent protection from all dominate and possession spells, and a permanent barrier against all summoned creatures who don't match the Templar's alignment (the quote above is from the anti-Evil variant).  Only the +2 AC and save bonuses apply to evil opponents.  That's enormously powerful for 3rd level, or really for any level, even if the class is supposed to be above average.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Higgs Boson on June 10, 2007, 11:49:50 PM
Like the creator of the revised paladin on the Wizard boards, i agree that a 20th level paladin should be smiting up a lot every day. Thats why he changed the paladin's smites to smites per encounter. gives more reasn to play them past level 6.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Xeviat on June 11, 2007, 02:29:14 AM
Protection from Evil is a 1st level spell that lasts 1 minute per level. This means that you could spend 50 gp a fight to use a potion of protection from evil every fight, using the standard action of course.

The "prevents bodily contact from summoned creatures" doesn't work the momment you attack them or try to force the barrier on them.

Uranium: Oh, I'm with you. But the current smite's attack bonus makes it very potent. I'd like to see smite made more like the Soul Knife's Psychic Strike; a move action to charge it, and it adds damage to the next attack. But I wanted this to insert into anyones game over the paladin (and you can nominally use it to recreate a paladin with my domain changes, to an extent).
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Polycarp on June 11, 2007, 03:21:17 AM
Quote from: Kap'n XeviatProtection from Evil is a 1st level spell that lasts 1 minute per level. This means that you could spend 50 gp a fight to use a potion of protection from evil every fight, using the standard action of course.
Permanency[/i] is a 5th level spell which should cost 500-1000 xp to cast - and whereas Permanency can be dispelled, the ability in question can be immediately resumed for no cost.  I think the example of somebody carrying around pound upon pound of PfE potion for every encounter is a bit of a stretch - especially since the ability, unlike a potion, is active even out of combat.  Nobody can affect him with dominate or possession spells at any time unless they start throwing dispels first, and somehow immediately cast dominate/possess before he resumes the protection.

And speaking of permanency, you'll notice that PfE is not one of the available spells to make permanent.  Spells not on that list often tend to be quite overpowered when made permanent, and I don't think PfE is any exception.

QuoteThe "prevents bodily contact from summoned creatures" doesn't work the moment you attack them or try to force the barrier on them.

Why would anyone force a barrier on a summoned creature in combat?  That rule is there to prevent abuse, not as a check on its power.  Besides, even if you broke the protection by forcing it, you could resume it almost immediately as per the effect description.  Heck, you could swing at it, then resume the protection and heal as needed, and then swing again, resuming the effect each time and killing it at your leisure.  It seems pretty broken to me.

I'm not saying it's totally inappropriate as a class skill (maybe), but I do think it's totally inappropriate at 3rd level.  Even powerful classes, in my own opinion, should not be handing out  immunities and permanent protection from summoned creatures at 3rd level, especially with the potential for abuse this has.  The Paladin gets fear immunity early on, but fear is a fairly rare effect, without the wierd abusive potential of a field that can be dispelled and resumed at will.  I'd either make it available much later or nerf it, maybe by altering it so it only works against evil creatures (all its effects), or so that its a X per day power rather than "permanent, resume at will."

PS. Sorry to be a downer, I like the class.  This point stuck out to me as a potential problem, but it's really the only one I've got comments on.  If you're running a high-power campaign this is a good paladin alternative.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Matt Larkin (author) on June 11, 2007, 08:54:37 AM
On the flipside of the Protection from Evil argument, I think it may be more useful to be able to cast the spell (which of course the templar can anyway), since you can use it to protect your allies.  Few low-level characters face dominate spells, and charm is impractical to use in combat under most circumstances.  Plus, a templar already has a good will save (and a paladin with a strong CHA would have even better).

If healing domain grants lay on hands, that makes a pretty big difference in my estimation of the class.

Though divine grace was still one of my favorite d20 abilities.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Epic Meepo on June 11, 2007, 03:20:44 PM
Quote from: Mithridates[T]he "divine protection" ability is way, way to powerful, especially for 3rd level.  It means the Templar is immune to possession and dominate spells and abilities, from any source, and that almost no summoned creatures will be able to touch him (except those of his own alignment, and those with good enough spell resistance).  That is an extraordinarily powerful ability, given that it's essentially permanent unless the Templar is in an antimagic field.
3rd level may be a bit too early for this ability, but I'd like to make the counterpoint to Mithrades' argument. In the Book of Exalted Deeds, there are two different prestige classes available to 8th-level characters that grant permanent magic circle against evil effects. With that in mind, a permanent protection is not greatly unbalancing.

Even without those two prestige classes, I don't feel that immunity to dominate and possession is all that powerful. In my experience, fear effects are just as common as possession effects. Further, and the ability to avoid being touched by summoned creatures is minor when you consider the fact that your protection no longer applies once you attack those creatures (even if you later drop and restart your protection, it is still the same effect and thus still no longer functions for that summoned creature). Also, summoned creatures with SR have a chance of getting through your barrier.
Title: The Templar: A new take on the Paladin
Post by: Xeviat on June 12, 2007, 02:51:48 AM
I did use those Exalted Deeds classes as a guideline; that's why my Templar gets the Magic Circle effect at 11th level. Having immunity to non-same aligned summoned creatures is good for you, but since you're the warrior of the group, it's not good for your party. I will add a stipulation that if you attack a summoned creature, your ability isn't negated, it just stops working for that creature (nice thought, though; if someone did that in my game while using my class, I'd instantly rewrite it, no arguements).

Plus, at 3rd level, it only makes you immune to Charm Person, which is already a poor choice in combat (due to the +4 Save Bonus you gain for being in combat).

A ring of Protection from Evil, based on the item creation table, would only cost 4,000 gp (2,000x1 caster level x1 spell level x2 duration multiplier); I'm aware that this offers more bonuses for less price than a ring of protection+cloak of resistance, but it only applies to one alignment (and ideally, a heroic campaign should fight neutrals from time to time).

Perhaps its a bit strong, but I don't think it scales well. Perhaps it could work only as SR vs. mind control (as the summoning ward has SR applied). But I ultimately don't think that Templar being immune to mind control is a bad thing; it seems like something their deities would protect them against, and Protection from X is a pretty generic effect.

Oh, and if the 4,000 gp cost projection is off, it's because the spell is a mite bit overpowered.