Over my years of DMing and playing, I've grown to not like the Favored Enemy mechanic. The first game I ran had a ranger in it, and it was difficult to find a balance between using creatures the ranger had favored enemy in (this was 3.0 too) and using other creatures; I didn't run random anything, and I feel that I may have not given him favored enemies enough. More recently, when I ran a bit of Red Hand of Doom, a player played a Ranger and took Goblin and Dragon as his favored enemies, because he knew there were going to be Goblins in it and he felt that Dragon is always useful (a note to those who haven't played the adventure; there are at least 5 potent dragon BBEGs, and a horde of hob and other sorts of goblins). Needless to say, his favored enemy felt to be a bit much at times (especially having +4 vs. goblins).
As a player, I've always felt that the Favored Enemy bonus is too much in the hands of the DM. Sure, Sneak Attack is in the DM's hands as well, and Smite Evil is in the DM's hands, but it feels worse for the Ranger.
I haven't finalized the exact ability, but I might be able to base it off of the bounty hunter's "Familiar Foe" ability from Star Wars Saga Edition:
Quote from: Star Wars SECR page 209Familiar Foe
By observing your enemy in combat, you know how to defeat him more easily. If you spend a full-round action observing an opponent in combat, you gain a bonus on attack rolls against that opponent and a bonus to your Reflex Defense [Reflex Save and AC rolled in one] against attacks made by that opponent equal to one-half your class level (rounded down) [this is a PrC, so it caps at +5]. The effects last until the end of the encounter. You canot use this ability until after your opponent has acted during the combat.
I'm not sure I want to directly port this over, as it doesn't help for a ranger who is tracking down a specific quary. But, the Knowledge skills could prove useful, requiring a Knowledge skill check against certain DCs based on how much you know of the creature or group of creatures (such as DC 10 if you've viewed the creature or group act, or DC 15 if you're gathering facts from tracks or first hand accounts, or DC 20 for far removed information ...). The following Knowledges have creature types attached: Arcana (constructs, dragons, magical beasts), Dungeoneering (aberrations, oozes), Local (humanoids), Nature (animals, fey, giants, monstrous humanoids, plants, vermin), Religion (undead), The Planes (outsiders, elementals).
But I'm not sure these are entirely within the flavor of the class. I just don't like that the favored enemy is set, and that it could be an always or never ability (if it comes up too often, it might as well always be on).
Any thoughts?
To some extent is the responsibility of a DM to cater to his players' characters. To some extent, it is the responsibility of the ranger to choose enemies that come up in the campaign (that's probably how they become favored enemies). A ranger that takes "dragon" as his 1st level favored enemy has only himself to blame (how did he become an expert dragon hunter without gaining a few levels in the process?).
Your proposal accomplishes its goal of a more general ability. I think I would personally prefer an ability that does not require an action to activate before it takes effect. But people have different play styles. In 3.5 I haven't found favored enemy underpowered (it probably was in 3.0).
As for flavor, it depends on how you see the ranger. If you see him as a defender of nature against unnatural threats, it might make sense he hunts oozes and aberrations. If you see him as the woodsman/hunter, probably only animals, magiical beasts, and monstrous humanoids make sense.
I agree that I've never liked Favored enemy. It has always seemed odd to me that a ranger picks and enemy from the start that he will carry out a personal genocide against for the rest of his life; and over the course of his life, he chooses 4 more such enemies. It has always just seemed pretty antithetical to the nature of the ranger.
I don't know if this is where you are going with your Foe Hunter or not, but an idea I've had is along the same lines as a bounty hunter. A ranger can have one designated foe at any time (and it can last over the course of levels, days, weeks, years, or the ranger's entire career if the foe is quite the nemesis). The ranger picks his first foe at level 2. Against that foe, he gains certain bonuses (+X to stealth, +X in combat, etc). When that foe is defeated (either by the ranger, or another being), the ranger may choose a new foe after a certain amount of time (either 1 week/month game time, or 1 level). That way, it's not like there was another foe in queue, but rather that the ranger picked his new foe for some particular reason. Anyway, I haven't worked out the details yet, but it's one of my projects to get to eventually.
It only makes sense (if you want rules to make sense) that a Favored Enemy is developed as the ranger is played. My take on variations of this skill has always been to ask my players to determine their Favored Enemy from the list of creatures they have encountered 'in game', and to have them actually research that creature class after they have actually fought it. This makes sense in longer term games, but would be useless in a shorter term ones.
The other skill that is being discussed, the 'Designated Target' would be very useful and would be a wonderful addition to any Assassin-style skill lexicon. I could use that...thank you.
I'm trying to make it so that a ranger could designate a singular foe or possibly a like-minded group. I'd like the ranger to be able to establish this bonus before wading into battle, but to have the option to establish it in the heat of battle in case they run into a creature they are unfamiliar with.
My original ideas (before the Star Wars book got me thinking on it again) was to have it be a Knowledge check of the type of knowledge attached to the creature, against the DC to learn about them in the PHB/MM3+. The bonus would be based on the Ranger's level. This would help with the "realism" of a ranger who learns to fight the unnatural (dungeoneering: aberrations and oozes), to hunt the normal (nature: giants, animals, ect), or the magical (arcane: dragons, constructs, magical beasts) ... I'd reduce the creatures into less knowledges for my games, but that's just me.
If I can get some consensus on what method of organizing this, I can get the ability put together so it can be analyzed. Any ideas?
Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I tackled this same issue a couple of years ago, and you might be able to pick apart my solution for ideas that work for you. I do like the way you're working this favored enemy substitute as a function of expertise rather than rage, and I did it the same way. Note that my fix accommodates bounty hunters and assassins, but also private detectives and trackers.
[spoiler=Relentless ability for LC's hunter class]Relentless: A hunter's strength is his ability to focus on specific target, seeing with the eyes of his prey. By concentrating on a specific individual for days or even weeks, a hunter gradually increases his understanding of his target's motives, mannerisms, habits, and commonly-used strategies, gaining a talent for predicting his prey's movements. When a hunter focuses on tracking a specific target, his intense study yields results in the form of a bonus to skill checks made against that individual. The hunter adds his Relentless bonus to all Bluff, Listen, Spot, and Sense Motive checks against the hunted target, as well as all Survival and Gather Information checks made to find the target with the Track and Urban Tracking feats. In addition, the hunter adds his Relentless bonus to all weapon damage rolls against the prey he pursues.
At first level, the hunter has a maximum Relentless bonus of +2. Whenever a hunter designates a new individual as his chosen "prey," his Relentless bonus is set to zero. At the end of each day in which the hunter spends at least one hour on his prey's trail (this includes attempting to track the prey, engaging in combat with the prey, spying on the prey, or simply speculating on the prey's activities), the hunter's Relentless bonus increases by 1. The hunter's Relentless bonus resets to zero if he chooses a new individual as his chosen prey, or if he fails to spend one hour a day on his prey's trail for a number of consecutive days equal to his current Relentless bonus.
For example, Eld is a third-level hunter, who has been hired by a private firm to investigate Republic Senator Elric Val, who is suspected of making under-the-table deals with Ithyria. Eld has been discreetly spying on Senator Val for over a week, so he has been enjoying his maximum Relentless bonus of +2 against the Senator for quite some time. Then, Eld receives word that Rusty Jase, the slaver who sold his brother to Ithyria, is back in town. Thirsty for revenge, Eld designates Rusty Jase as his new prey. His Relentless bonus resets to zero, and he no longer gains any advantage while spying on the Senator, but he begins to accumulate Relentless bonus against Rusty Jase as he tracks the slaver day by day, making sure nothing can go amiss with his planned revenge.[/spoiler]
I like it, but I don't like the time required; that seems awesome for more story driven games, but it would be hard to work into a standard dungeon/wilderness crawl.
But I'm glad to have the validation of my ideas seeing your similar ideas gives me (strange sentance, don't dwell on it too much). Thanks.
Ok, Kap'n.
It sounds (or reads) like you are looking for something of a 'Detect Weakness' kind of ability, where even if a character has never seen an opponent before, they can observe and 'detect' weaknesses by observing them. Not like the forknowledge of an emeny and the tactics studied that emulates a 'Favored Enemy', but more of an ability to almost instantly decode the fighting style of a creature. Not something that takes hours or days, but an ability that gives an advantage based on the study of a few minutes.
Obviously more rare than a 'Favored Enemy' skill, and maybe 1/2 the ability advantage, but more constantly useful. Sound right?
QuoteBut I'm glad to have the validation of my ideas seeing your similar ideas gives me (strange sentance, don't dwell on it too much). Thanks.
Same here, really. I definitely share your concerns on the inadequacies of the PHB version of Favored Enemy mechanics, and I'll be watching your workaround with interest.
Perhaps I will adopt one of the "fast" versions mentioned in this thread. I think a class with a "slow" tracking ability and a "fast" tracking ability would adequately illustrate the kinds of things we want to portray.
For the most part, yes. As I said, I'd be fine with some action to activate (like the aforementioned Bounty Hunter ability), or possibly attaching it to the creature knowledge skills, but the crux of what I'm trying to do is put Favored Enemy in the hands of the player and not the DM. As it stands now, if the DM is primarily using goblins, there's little reason for a Ranger player to not funel all of their favored enemy points into Goblin and having a full +10 damage per hit against them.
To me, Favored Enemy was balanced with random dungeons in mind, not structured campaigns. If a ranger is meant to always fight their favored enemy, then favored enemy is worth more than weapon specialization+greater specialization; if it's meant to work on only a fraction of the creatures, then it puts extra work on the DM to ensure that the ranger gets the proper percentage of favored enemies.
I'd like to eliminate that.
Is anyone still interested in this? I'm almost done with my setting's classes, and my setting's ranger, the Scout, is almost complete. I just need some final opinions on this.
Quote from: LordVreegIt sounds (or reads) like you are looking for something of a 'Detect Weakness' kind of ability, where even if a character has never seen an opponent before, they can observe and 'detect' weaknesses by observing them. Not like the forknowledge of an emeny and the tactics studied that emulates a 'Favored Enemy', but more of an ability to almost instantly decode the fighting style of a creature. Not something that takes hours or days, but an ability that gives an advantage based on the study of a few minutes.
entirely[/i] in terms of "I fight intelligently and pay close attention to my opponents during battle" doesn't exactly scream "scout!" to me; it strikes me as the purview of a dedicated weapons expert.
[blockquote=brightest crayola]Which leads me to an important question: If an ability is most easily conceptualized as "weakness detection", why is it being designed as a class ability for scouts, rather than for fighters (or at least, as a feat fighters can take if they so choose.) An ability that can be described entirely in terms of "I fight intelligently and pay close attention to my opponents during battle" doesn't exactly scream "scout!" to me; it strikes me as the purview of a dedicated weapons expert.
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I tend to agree. AS this evoled and as questions got answered, It was becoming an ability that would need an especial study of fighting styles in order to break them down quickly. I would create a major skill involving humanoid combat and a sub skill with non humanoid variations
I might need to change the name of the Scout to Hunter, as this ability is meant for that angle. The Scout is an expert class that focuses on stealth, senses, and mobility. It is meant to be a spell-less replacement for the Ranger. I like skirmish, but I don't like that it isn't that much more unique than sneak attack; where making a new version of favored enemy would be.
Instead of it being a full-round action ability, what if Scouts could have a number of favored enemy creature types active at once, based on their level (starting with 1, gaining 1 ever 5 levels or something). Activating it would take an amount of time studying, based on what you have to study (like it might take a single combat against a creature on hand, or hours if studying in a book or studying tracks ...).
Again, thanks for the discussion.
Maybe rangers could select a creature type they are familiar with, instead of one they are genocidal towards. Bonuses to diplomacy (or handle animal, as appropriate), gather information, heal, knowledge-skills, sense motive and tracking would benefit a friend as much as a foe. A bonus to damage may be in order, too.