This thread is now the discussion thread for Datrik. You can find the rest of the information on Datrik in the Homebrews section (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?4696.0)
Original Post
[spoiler]Originally posted on the Wizards Boards: (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8632176#post8632176)
This is a work in heavy development. Everything here is subject to change at a later date. I am looking for all the feedback I can get. Thank you for your time. Everything posted here is PEACH and SIHO.
Basic premise â,¬' Long ago, the world was bombarded by a string of meteor showers that left the surface of the world completely uninhabitable. The surface of the world is barren, lifeless, and completely airless: it is a total void; uninhabitable by the life that was native to the surface prior to the day the sky fell. With the meteors came alien life forms, which began to repopulate the void and reform it in their own image.
However, the natives of the World were not defeated. The fled below, into the caverns that extended beneath the surface. Unlike most worldsâ,¬,,¢ underdarks, the underdark of this world is divided into a few distinct layers. The first layer is much like your typical underdark, a twisting maze of tunnels with caverns that rarely exceed the size of a large city. The second layer is actually one massive cavern, separated by columns of rock the size of mountain ranges. Called the lowerlands, it is native to as many species of fungus as the surface once held plants. Bioluminescent fungus provides light for the lowerlands, and most of the races of the surface fled here. Below that is the deeperdark, which is much like the underdark but exists below the Lowerlands. The final layer is the flames, a series of tunnels and caverns that flow with the molten lava of the core itself.
Here, the people of the world make their home. Working newfound magics and forsaking old, they forged a new existence in the World Below. Some seek to reclaim the surface world. Others seek to discover what caused the day when the sky fell. Still others seek personal power, and the majority, as always, seek to get along as best they can.
Tone: Horror, and Mystery are the two most common tones found. High adventure and exploration also work well here.
Themes: Discovery (of ancient ruins buried in the Lowerlands, of what caused the sky to fall), Survival in a harsh environment, The Old Wyas vs. The New, Civilization and its construction, Religion vs. Technology vs. Magic, and evolution, both magical and natural.
Other information:
There is not any psionics, arcane, or divine magic, excepting Warlocks. Magic systems that will be uses are Invocations (from the Warlock), Incarnum, Truename, Pact, and Shadow magic (once they are released, I will be adding information about them â,¬' I have seen enough to know they belong in this setting.) Also, I am considering making a new magic system or two for this setting. Irregardless, it redefines traditional party roles, because the best thing a party can hope for as far as a blaster goes is a warlock, and a truename mage is probably the best resource they have as far as healing. Pact magic is the only way to directly gain the power of the gods, though they are seeking to regain the ability to spread divine followers.
People who manipulate crystals, which may be a new form of magic in and of itself, will advance technology. Technology will be applied on a case-by-case basis. Mecha will appear, as will power armor, as will certain forms of advanced weaponry. Living constructs and regular constructs will duplicate robots. Cybernetics may appear as golemtech, and I might develop an Internet like thing using the Ethereal Plane, the Realm of Dreams, the Plane of Mirrors, or the Plane of Shadow as a medium.
The traditional races are, for the most part, out. Dwarves are nearly extinct, elves fled magically to one of the worldâ,¬,,¢s moons, Orcs underwent mutations, halflings died on the surface, and gnomes went the route of the dwarves. New races appeared, either in the magical fallout from the meteors hitting, from the meteors themselves, or from the depths beneath the world.
More will be coming soon. Tell then, what does everyone think?[/spoiler]
So we see what races are out.
What races are in?
How aboot the paladin and ranger and druid? What are the fixes, if any, for them without their spells?
It would seem the setting you describe is a natural for psionics.
If nearly all of the core races (except for humans) died out, why even have them in the first place? They seem like unwanted bagage to me.
Please post more info!
I'm working on races, and should have them up later on. It's the end of finals week, though, so I'm worked to the bone right now. :@ To answer your questions, though:
@CYMRO - I'm making a variant ranger that combines ranger abilities with scout abilites, and gives limited meldshaping (similar to a soulborn totemist). Paladins are replaced by lawful good soulborns, and the druid is replaced by the totemist and a new class that focuses on shapeshifting. I'm not a big fan of PRCs, so these will all be core classes.
As for psionics, I am considering puting it in there. In fact, odds are good I will. I'm just worried putting psionics in would make the new systems of magic less appealing, which would hurt what I have in mind for the setting - i want to emphasise the new magic types.
@ Raelifin - I thought about that, but I want some civilizations to have go extinct. Putting them in there means that the civilizations that are lost are ones the players understand and have a slight emotional attachment to. However, they do add some baggage, and since I'm looking to emphasise new stuff here, I might cut them out later.
Thanks for your feedback. Look for an update this weekend, but I might just sleep through the whole thing. :P
I think for magic if you try to untilze too many systems you find they get a little overwhelming. I really like the idea of making warlocks the primary arcane casters, and as of right now I agree that psionics can fill in the gaps very well. I reserve judgement on the tomb of magic until I see it in action. Conceptually in a world w/o arcane or divine casters I can see how you could make room for it, but it's really hard to build around them until we see what they can actually do. (Incarnum IMHO is terrible. Use it if you like, but magic tied to alignment turns my stomach)
I do really like the idea of a subterranean world, and a blasted surface too hostile to live on any longer. What kind of adaptations were the people (are humans all that's left from above?)forced to make to live in the darkness? I'd like to know a little more about how things work. This is a big departure from regular D&D which may require some serious rules addendums and additions, so you've got your work cut out for you.
Keep us posted, and add a link to your WotC stuff so we can see what else you've already got in the works.
-Lata G-
I agree too many systems might be too much, but if I cut out Arcane and Divine (excepting warlocks), then I should be fine, IMO. I am keeping Incarnum in there, but I'm almost totally reworking the flavor of it, to the point where I am removing its alignment ties. There is a 90% chance I might even remove the alignment system, or replace it with d20 modern's allegance system, or at least use it in the style of Eberron, where it hardly means anything except for a few spells and effects.
That is definatly the hardest part, adapting the rules and inventing new ones where needed. I'm thinking on those, and will definatly have some stuff on that posted by Monday or Tuesday.
Here's the Rathian, (http://boards.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=8539027) an LA +1 race. The flavor is still limited, since I'm still not sure what niches need to be filled. They are probably going to fill an elvish niche, an anchient but poweful magical (incarnum) race, only without the elvish civilization: more wild, but not feral.
QuoteI'm not a big fan of PRCs, so these will all be core classes.
Neither am I. Full classes or nuttin'! :D
well, prestige classes would be fun for this campaign setting, but if you don't like 'em, throw 'em out. i'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out. anything specific you want help with/on?
Not yet, but I'm really going to be needing help with balance issues - I have a habit of squeezing as many things onto a single idea. Also, I just need feedback, especially on finer details, since I tend to overlook them.
Oh, and for a quick preview of Incarnum, here's how I'm going to work it. An Incarnate or Soulborn can be of any alignment. Upon taking their first level, an Incarnate picks one of the following aspects: Void, Core, Sun, or Storm. Incarnates that choose void shape soulmelds as an evil incarnate, those that chose Core or Sun shape soulmelds as a Lawful or Good incarnate (not sure which goes with which), and those that choose Storm shape soulmelds as a chaotic incarnate. At tenth level, a Incarnate can choose a second aspect, and can from then on shape soulmelds that are restricted to that aspect. A good Incarnate could choose Void, a lawful one Storm.
Soulborns start with two different aspects.
What do you think?
i'm not familiar with how incarnum works, so I'm afraid I will be of little help in tis area of discussion...
I'll be posting an update soon, but for now, I really need help!
I'm stuck at the moment - this world can go one of two ways. One way would include the technology and psionics, the other would have none of the technology and no psionics or maybe just no technology type stuff. I really canâ,¬,,¢t do much more until I decide, but I canâ,¬,,¢t make up my mind. My question is, what do you guys think about this?
This is one of those things where you need to follow your heart. Nobody but you can decide on your core ethos statement.
True. I'm gonna have to sleep on this one. Still, advice and opinions would be much appreciated to help me put things in perspective. My mind tends to go into a chatoic jumble when I need to make big decisions for anything creative, so focusing points are much appreciated.
Iâ,¬,,¢ve decided to put this world on the backburner until about mid-April, when complete psionic comes out. After getting TOM, I realized the flavor for most of the magic systems didnâ,¬,,¢t mesh with the flavor of Datrik, and therefore donâ,¬,,¢t belong in it. Both Psionics and Incarnum fit the flavor I was going for perfectly, so Iâ,¬,,¢m going to be making them the two magic systems of this world, along with the Warlock and possibly Binder. This means I need to do some mental retooling of Datrik before I can work on it, and so Iâ,¬,,¢m letting it sit around. When complete psionic comes out, Iâ,¬,,¢ll have more material that will fit this world, and until then Iâ,¬,,¢ll still be making stuff, but it isnâ,¬,,¢t going to be my primary setting for now.
The first thing that comes to mind is that you should probably choose two types of spellcasting and go with them: You don't want to have more than 4 primary spellcasters, with two from each system. But this could change, depending on the way things are explained: unless you want a ton of magic running around, you should keep things limited.
First, a few questions: Are the "aliens" in the world above Aberrations? Are there going to be Aberrations in the deep underdark and the core? If so, perhaps Psionics is their form of magic, and you'll definitely want a PC/NPC (read: low CR/low level adjustment) aberration race to make up the bulk of NPC spellcasters (utilizing all four psionic classes). Imagine reworking the Kaorti from MM2 into an aberration race; wild kaorti wilders, scheming kaorti psions, powerful kaorti psychic warriors, and skulking kaorti soul-knifes. Humanoids may be capable of psionics, but it would be seen as so horribly evil (read "alien") that they would be ostracized; then you could have groups of psionic humanoids living in the underdark, working for the "aliens" to sabotage the humanoids.
The beauty of the ToM classes is that there is only one class for each subset. I definitely think the Binders would work great as a slightly dark, slightly horrific Cleric. You could even toss in the alternate cleric from Heroes of Horror; deities haven't yet reestablished their connections to call clerics/favored souls, but that doesn't stop people from searching.
If you want Warlocks, you have to decide upon the nature of their heritage. Are they demon-born? If they are, then where to the demons come from. What part, if any, did demons play in the falling of the sky. Maybe they aren't demon-born, and they are just "sorcerers", a product of man's evolution, a defense mechanism.
Keeping with the general oddness, do use the Magic of Incarnum classes. If I remember correctly, there are two full casters and two half-casters, correct?
On more of the classes: you have no reason to combine the ranger and scout, just use the scout. Fighters and Barbarians fit all the needed combative roles, especially with the warrior/caster Incarnum class. You can afford to drop the Bard.
I only make so many suggestions about the classes because I think you should keep things as restricted as you can. If there are 20+ base classes, you have to realize that they are going to be common enough to be filling those caverns.
Some Questions: How survival-based are the settlements? Are things peaceful enough to generate NPC classes, or is it going to basically be the PC classes and commoners? (You could go that direction easily).
Lastly: What did cause the falling of the sky? Or is this a big campaign hinging secret that you'd like players to discover eventually?
Some words of encouragement: I don't think you're trying too hard to be different. You have an interesting take on the classic apocalypse scenario. You may also have done it in a way that can actually support multiple campaigns, as it isn't going to be fixed anytime soon.
Keep it coming. Let me know if I can offer any more help.
The Aliens are aberrations, but although Alien = Aberration, Aberration does not = alien. There are some Aberrations that are native to Datrik. (The aliens are going to have an extraterrestrial subtype or something along those lines.) I like the idea of tying psionics to the aliens, and I am definitely going to make a PC/NPC alien race or two. The Kaorti are similar to what I want in feel, but not in appearance or ability to what I am going for. If I go this route, which I find very appealing, I think I might make psionics related to aberrations or aliens in the same way sorcery is related to dragons â,¬' including most PC psions having aberration blood.
I was thinking about taking HoH archivist and making it a binder or truespeaker class, as both would fit it flavor wise, and I really, really donâ,¬,,¢t want the PCs having access to any Cleric or Wizard spells, and I might restrict psionics for the same reason, especially if I tie psionics to Aberrations.
On the vein of warlocks, I have two options Iâ,¬,,¢m considering
1) Warlocks are born, but not by accident. Powerful Incarnates and Shadowcasters, working together in the last days of the war, were able to permanently infuse the blood of certain people with the warlockâ,¬,,¢s powers. Certain families, because of this, are almost always warlocks, but illicit affairs and bastard children mean warlocks can pop up anywhere
2) Warlockism is a natural occurring phenomena that began around the time of the sky falling. Some people think the gods infused certain people with this power to help defend humanoidanity, while others think it was nature giving her children this power as a defense against things whoâ,¬,,¢s existence was anathema to her. Some point to the visages as granting warlock powers. Regardless, warlocks happen randomly, without rhyme or reason.
No sure which one to use, but either one would fit the bill. I might even consider warlocks have it in their blood from celestials, fiends, and/or dragons, like sorcerers do in normal DnD.
As for MOI, it has two full casting classes and one half casting class, but if I include the ranger I will be making it a Meldshaper, replacing its half divine casting with half soulmeld casting, that would make it two full and two half. I like the scout, though, and it would be nice to have another roguish type class running around. I might put both in their â,¬' the scout more part of the military, the Incarnate ranger the defender of nature in its new form.
I am going to be keeping the classes somewhat limited in scope, but not too much so: I love options. Here are the classes I plan on including
[spoiler]
In = Incarnum Class, Iv = Invoking class, B = Binding Class, S = Shadow class, T = Truenamer class, P = Psionic Class
Almost Definitely In
Incarnate (In)
Soulborn (In)
Totemist (In)
Ranger (In)
Warlock (Iv)
Fighter
Rogue
Barbarian
Scout
Binder (B)
Shadowcaster (S)
Truenamer (T)
Hexblade (Iv or S)
Maybes
Archivist (B or T)
Witchborn Killer (Homebrew Iv)
Shapeshifter (For those who miss druid wild shape)
Shadowsmith (S) Take the PrC in ToM and make it into full class.
Soulknife (P) â,¬' probably the only socially acceptable psionic class, though I need to do some work on it to fix it if I include it, because as is it is too weak.
Aliens Only
Psion (P)
Psionic Warrior (P)
Wilder (P)
Dementist (Homebrew P)
[/spoiler]
As is, without the maybe classes, I have 13 classes. With maybe, I have 17. Not too bad, IMO, though this is for now. A PC could play a psionic class, but it would be even worse than trying to play an arcane class in Dark Sun, as far a stigma goes â,¬' and it would be damn near impossible to hide, once combat started.
As far as survival and setting, the setting has had enough time where there can be a few NPC classes, mostly commoner and experts. However, both have their HD increased by one step, their attack bonus made to be Ã,¾ (if the expert isnâ,¬,,¢t already), weapon proficiency changed to all simple weapons, short sword, and light crossbow, and armor proficiency changed to light armor and shields. Everyone gets some combat training, even farmer types, so they are slightly more dangerous in combat than in normal DnD, and wonâ,¬,,¢t die as easily. No lasting settlement fails to train their people in the basics of combat and defense, which is what these minor changes represent. Their arenâ,¬,,¢t any warriors â,¬' people who donâ,¬,,¢t get full combat training and become fighters or other military types go back to commoner life.
As for what caused the falling, Iâ,¬,,¢m not telling. :-P I plan on testing this world in a PbP game over here and on Giant ITP, and maybe on the Wiz boards, so I donâ,¬,,¢t want to give it away. Big mystery there, and part of the setting is about mystery.
[spoiler]Also, I havenâ,¬,,¢t really decided yet. Thatâ,¬,,¢s the real reason. :P[/spoiler]
Thanks for the help, Xeviat. I'll look over some of your stuff later on today. :)
"Warlockism" is my new favorite word.
Quote from: Epic_Meepo"Warlockism" is my new favorite word.
Glad you like. Making up words is fun, and it was the only one that could describe what I had in mind. :)
Races of Datrik
Finally, I have some of the races up. Questions, as always, are much appreciated. These are all bare bone information only.
[note=elves]Elves exist in Datrik, but they live on the first moon of the world, the emerald moon of Slyvathinos. Slyvathinos will be a setting in and of itself, and Elvin interaction with Datrik is minimal, as of now.[/note]
Rathians:
[spoiler]Our race is a failure. Our sacred duty was compromised, and now the darkness we guarded the world against is in the hands of the evil ones. We are a failure. And with that knowledge comes our liberty: for with our fate no longer bound to the ruins above, we can make our own destiny, and find a success in the ashes of ruin.
-Hitha Silvereye, Remaker spiritual leader and Rathian Totemspeaker
The rathians are an old tribal people who were native to the surface along with humanity and the shimmerfolk. On the surface, the rathians were masters of incarnum, who wielded that power as part of their own body. They worked with the elves to safeguard ancient ruins that no When the sky fell and the world was drained, the Rathians fled underground, leaving their charges unguarded. Now they live in the mushroom forests of the World Below, divided into two factions. One, the Reclaimers, seek to develop new ways to use incarnum that would allow them to reclaim the surface and protect the ruins from those who came with the Void. The others, the Remakers, believe that Rathians are now a free people who must find their own destiny. Remaker totemists, working with Athentui psions, were able to develop the first primitive methods of binding incarnum to inanimate objects, and many of the wonders enjoyed today that utilize incarnum are their work.[/spoiler]
Tirkiki
[spoiler]̢,"We are".
-Tirkiki Drone being spoken to once severed from its queen. Not much more information could be gathered, as the creature was only unable to mutter fragments of words that did not make sense in context. The phrase "We are" was a response to the question "Do you understand us?," and was spoken in the Tirkiki language.
The tirkiki are an insectile race that lives in great hive cities hanging from the ceiling of the lowerlands. Divided into breeds, Tirkiki are an odd species to comprehend. The Queens rule the Tirkiki. The Drones, Workers, and Soldiers all actually completely lack independent thought: they are extensions of the Queen that birthed them, much in the same way fingers are extensions of the human that grew them. The Free are Tirkiki especially bred for independent thought, and serve the Queens as advisors and ambassadors, since most races try to interact with Tirkiki that are extensions of the Queen as if they were independent beings. The Free also occasionally undertake missions for their Hive or even wander off on their own, which form the bulk of Tirkiki adventurers.[/spoiler]
Glimmerfolk
[spoiler]Sing for the sun, still in the sky.
Sing for the wind that will never die.
Sing for the people who live and grow.
Sing for the life we found below.
-One of the 347 verse of the glimmerfolk Joy, an epic song of hope.
The glimmerfolk are a people in constant celebration. Renowned for their great works of portable art and their epic songs, the glimmerfolk travel from city to city in the lowerlands, spreading their way and their message of hope. They are creatures of passion and beauty, and liaisons between glimmerfolk and members of other races are common. Most human cities welcome glimmerfolk for the breath of fresh air they bring, and have laws protecting glimmerfolk in their territories.[/spoiler]
Tuorth
[spoiler]My honor is my pack, my blood is my den, my heart is my kin, my soul is my blade.
- Recitation of Tuorth warriors before battle, a ritualized version of the 3rd principal of gruâ,¬,,¢dagâ,¬,,¢poth
The Tuorth are a lupine warrior race native to the Lowerlands. They spend the darktimes, the nights of the lowerlands, out hunting in the darkness. By day, they congregate in cities called dens, where they keep the young and the weak. Tuorth life is centered around the principals of gruâ,¬,,¢dagâ,¬,,¢poth, the Laws of the Pack. Highly ritualized and bound in honor, Tuorth often seem inscrutable to outsiders. However, non can deny their martial prowess, and a member of another race who is adopted by a Tuorth has the most stalwart ally that could be hoped for. Some noble houses perform great services to have a pack of Tuorth adopt that house as Pack, which gives them deadly and powerful bodyguards and soldiers to bolster their ranks.
Makos
[spoiler]Coming soon![/spoiler]
1. Which were the races with which you were unhappy?
2. What about them in your opinion seems unsatisfactory?
3. Am I correct to assume these races are in addition to the PHB races (with the exception of the elves of course)?
4. What kind of interaction do these races have with one another? What about with the PHB races?
5. Should I continue asking questions, or wait for a response?
-Nate-
I was unhappy with the Tuorth, but when writing up their description I got the idea for The Laws of the Pack, which really improved them for me. The Tuorth prior to that were pretty much Orcs with lupine features - they didn't have anything distinguishing them, and I wasn't too happy with them.
The others are the Tirkiki. I love the concept, but what I have down doesn't feel quite...right. I don't know, I just can't get down the Tirkiki in a satisfactory way. What I now have is the best idea for them so far, but it still feels somewhat off for some reason.
3) I was originally going to exclude all PHB races, but I'm thinking now that would be a bad idea. With such an exotic setting, making the races too exotic would make the players too off balance, and lessen their interest in the game. If I do keep PHB races in, I might still cut out dwarves and gnomes regardless, or at least alter them significantly. (I'm not a huge fan of either race). So that one remains up in the air for now. As an alternative, I might put the PHB races on the moons with the elves, which would keep familiarity and yet have them distant and rare enough to keep the setting unique. (Interlunar and lunar to terrestrial travel does happen, just very, very rarely.)
4) Interracial relations work something like this:
The Rathians have good relations with Athentui humans, who are a group of humans who built up a psionic culture in the Lowerlands, and with the Tuorth, who they share territory with. They rarely interact with Tirkiki hives, and when they do, they (like most races) have trouble understanding which Tirkiki are free and not, which leads to confusion. The Rathians have poor relations with the Glimmerfolk, who will have a description up shortly, but are basically wandering nomads with magical powers and a flighty disposition. The Rathians find them irritating and irresponsible.
The Tirkiki actually have trouble distinguishing between other humanoids, except for the obviously lupine Tuorth, so treat most races equally. They have a lot of trouble understanding the value of individual life, since 90% of the entities in Tirkiki society are not separate entities of a queen, leading Tirkiki (especially the queens) to regard killing a humanoid as even less of an offence then we would regard giving someone a small cut. This lead to a lot of altercations when humanoids entered the territories of hives at first, and relations are strained. Most Tirkiki hives wonâ,¬,,¢t kill individual humans, though they have trouble understanding why. Free Tirkiki have an easier time understanding why not, though some do struggle.
Glimmerfolk have good relations with humanity, who sees them as nice breaths of fresh air and welcome additions to any community, though they never stay long. Tuorths and Rathians dislike glimmerfolk, finding their flighty ways irritating and their lack of commitment a sign of weakness more than anything else. Glimmerfolk are terrified of the average Tirkiki, for the Glimmerfolk value individuality above all else, and the Tirkiki are the ultimate in communal society.
5) The more questions, the better. Just understand the more you ask, the longer it will take me to reply, but other than that, ask as many questions as you can think of.
Glimmerfolk info added.
I think your insectoid race is very poor as a PC race. Their lack of individuality, inability to communicate effectively, and mechanical detachment from death make them terrible adventuring companions.
What if however, they adopted their adventuring party as their new hive? It might work well if they applied those same quirky behaviors to the defense and protection of their adventuring companions.
Keep at least humans on your world. The players will want something they are familier with, that isn't completely alien to them. It would be nicer if you kept an evem mix of new races and old races four new races, along with maybe dwarves, humans, halflings, and gnomes? Just throwing it out there...feel free to ignore this; it just gives things a nice balance.
Do you still need some Tuorth ideas? I have an intimate familarity with Werewolf:the Apocolypse, so I've got all sorts of tribal lupin-like lore stored away in my brain that I never use.
-Nasty-
That's an interesting thought, adopting the adventuring party as their new hive. I should have defined the personallity of the "Free" caste of the Tirkiki better: they can communicate with other races, they have individual personality and free will, and they understand that their death is like a queens death, only less important in their society. However, they will be more likely to be followers, not leaders, have difficulty resisting mind influencing effects, and are more likely than most be self-sacrificing, even with their lives.
Oh, I will at least keep humans there. Humans almost always need to be on a world, IMO, to provide a baseline and a sense of familiarty, and to give a point of comparision: everything else is always judges in how it is different from humanity, since we ARE humans.
As for the other races...I might. That's still up in the air. Eliminating elves, half-elves, and half-orcs and having the setting contain only dwarves, halfings, gnomes, humans, and my four homebrew races might be nice. I'd have to seriously rewrite dwarf and gnome culture to like them, though: which I could do. I'm definatly going to think about it.
Thanks for the offer for the Tuorth ideas, but I think they are coming along nicely in my mind. I don't want to make them too much like Werewolves (never played the game, and know very little about it, but I hate making the Tuorth too like something already made if I can help it.)
Again, thanks for your help, Nasty - You've really helped me solidify some things in my mind, and I have new areas to think about.
Your welcome. Let me know if you need anything else.
-Nasty-
Posting this incomplete fragment here so I don't lose it, since I'm on my girlfriends laptop.
[spoiler][note=Using the Coven]The Coven is designed to be usable in any campaign setting, though it is geared towards Datrik, since an international organization of vampires becomes much more sinister when the sun no longer sheds its harmful rays. Still, any world in which vampires should/do play a large role can utilize the Coven. Although shadow magic plays a large role in the Coven, it is easy to substitute that for simple shadow and darkness spells, or even just Illusion in general, and still keep the flavor.[/note]
In the shadows of the cities of Datrik their name is whispered by those who know the deepest truths of the darkness. On the surface they struggled against a foe that they could not overcome. Now beneath the surface, the Coven can move freely, for the suns hateful rays no longer stand in their way. Although by no means open, the Coven has become bolder and bolder.
The Coven is an organization of vampires, founded by the Dread Vampire Culardin over three thousand years before the Voidfall. Since then, it has expanded, and when the Voidfall occurred, the vampires were the first to move to the lowerlands. Now, the Coven sits in every major cavern, and has a figure in almost every city.[/spoiler]
Vampires eh? I've been thinking about them recently too. I feel like the Sylec are particularly underexplored in Sulos. I've been wondering about how I could add more to them in a nice little sidebar. Now you've got my gears churning again.
-Nasty-
Ishy, could you lock this thread? I'm going to make two new ones, one for feedback, one for info: spreading it out makes things much easier. :)
Scratch that, actually. I'm just going to use this as the discussion thread instead. New information is up, check out the Aberrations and Incarnum for brand new material. I've cut out the insect people for now, though they are not gone forever, and I'm still working on what to do with the core races.
The aberrations (there's no way I'm gonna try to spell their names Ytholasomethingorother) seem really cool and really nasty. The only thing I think is kind of cheesy are the tentacles that end in mouths. I think they should end in scalpal-like hooks, cuz it's creepier.
I like how there are lots of rumors, but no hard facts about when, why, and how they came to Datrik. That's perfect for anyone who actually wants to DM something in the setting. Leaving some of the details in the hands of the indivudual who runs the game is great, and enables you as the writer to keep your options open too.
I haven't checked out the Incarnum stuff yet, but that's just because the whole system turns my stomach. For the sanctity of Datrik however, I will do it anyway. Everything else is so great, that I'll have to give them a fair shot I suppose; you haven't let me down yet Xathan.
-Nasty-
QuoteThe aberrations (there's no way I'm gonna try to spell their names Ytholasomethingorother) seem really cool and really nasty. The only thing I think is kind of cheesy are the tentacles that end in mouths. I think they should end in scalpal-like hooks, cuz it's creepier.
I like how there are lots of rumors, but no hard facts about when, why, and how they came to Datrik. That's perfect for anyone who actually wants to DM something in the setting. Leaving some of the details in the hands of the indivudual who runs the game is great, and enables you as the writer to keep your options open too.[/quote]I haven't checked out the Incarnum stuff yet, but that's just because the whole system turns my stomach. For the sanctity of Datrik however, I will do it anyway. Everything else is so great, that I'll have to give them a fair shot I suppose; you haven't let me down yet Xathan.[/quote]
I'm really interested in your thoughts on Incarnum: I'm divorcing it entirely from alignment, since that cheese reeked of "Hey, let's make these more suited for Minis than for actual RP," but the system was interesting enough to me to keep it in there. Basically, I hated incarnum at first for the alignment bull, and the "using souls" thing - WTF is up with that? I made Incarnates instead embody the fundemental truth behind things, allowing me to create Uncarnates (who badly need to be renamed) who embody the anti-truth, which is sort of like a fundemental lie. Basically, an Incarnate is various truths made incarnate, as the name implies. I'm trying to reflavor it for people who hate the flavor like you and I, so I hope I can breathe a breath of fresh air into this system for you. :)
Ok, since we here in Datrik are setting of the week, I have some thoughts to post.
Races: I'm more and more dissatisfied with my races, except for the Tuorth. I want the races to each embody some principals of Datrik. The Tuorth show the untamed savagery of the lowerlands, and the rest showâ,¬Â¦what? Iâ,¬,,¢m not going to scrap them as races, just not sure the Glimmerfolk and Rathians really do anything for Datrik. Meanwhile, the Tirkiki are going to be made more horrifying and put on the surface as an Alien race. Iâ,¬,,¢m going to make Vampires play a large role in Datirk, and allow them to breed with humans. (Vampires will be a monsterous race more than a template). As a result, Iâ,¬,,¢m going to add a vampire blooded race, as well as an aberration blooded race, and then something else. Four now races follows the Eberron model, and I like that way of adding races.
Sanity: Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking adding sanity rules into Datrik, to fit the whole setting better. Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure if I like the existing sanity rules, but Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure how else to do it. Anyone know of any good d20 sanity systems out there? Or ideas for them?
Tech: Iâ,¬,,¢d love new tech ideas; Iâ,¬,,¢m stuck on this more than anything else. Iâ,¬,,¢m making golemtech = cybernetics, but I need help on vehicles, weapons, and armor. Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking of Carapace armor, which would be like powered armor but bound to your life force. Not sure how to handle that mechanically, and I would like to keep it separate from Golemtech.
Quote from: Xathan, Last Of The FallenOk, since we here in Datrik are setting of the week, I have some thoughts to post.
Sanity: Iâ,¬,,¢m thinking adding sanity rules into Datrik, to fit the whole setting better. Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure if I like the existing sanity rules, but Iâ,¬,,¢m not sure how else to do it. Anyone know of any good d20 sanity systems out there? Or ideas for them?
There's the open-source one from Unearthed Arcana (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedSanity.html). Woo-hoo for the OGL!
Oh, and I just read you may not like that one. I think it works fine, but that's just me. :)
Quote from: Elven DoritosThere's the open-source one from Unearthed Arcana (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedSanity.html). Woo-hoo for the OGL!
Oh, and I just read you may not like that one. I think it works fine, but that's just me. :)
I'm thinking of using it. I just think it feels too...rigid, inflexible. I'm not sure, I'm definitely going to give it another look over.
"They spend the darktimes, the nights of the lowerlands, out hunting in the darkness. By day, they congregate in cities called dens, where they keep the young and the weak."
Can you explain some about what causes the darktimes and daytimes in the lowerlands? I can't find anything about it.
Wow, I can't believe I never posted about Brightmoss, the source of light for the lowerlands. Here's a blurb from awhile back, though it needs to be developed more:
Brightmoss:
Brightmoss comes in two varieties, sunmoss and glowmoss. The source of most of the lowerlands light, sunmoss is a naturally bioluminescent fungus that sheds a light blue light and grows only on the ceiling of the lowerlands. Sunmoss goes through a cycle, gradually growing brighter for ten hours and then growing dimmer for twelve, giving Datrik a somewhat lopsided day/night cycle. Most creatures have adapted their day/night cycles to the brightmoss cycle. At its brightest, the light is similar to that of an overcast day, and at its darkest, the light it releases is slightly brighter than a night lit by the full moon.
Glowmoss grows more sporadically, usually in patches on the â,¬Ëfloorâ,¬,,¢ of the lowerlands. Unlike sunmoss, glowmoss gives off a steady light that is equivalent to the light of a torch. Many cities keep rocks covered in glowmoss hanging from buildings as a light source during night, and travelers keep glowmoss encrusted rocks as a safer, longer lasting alternative to torches.
Quote from: Xathan, Last Of The FallenI'm thinking of using [insanity]. I just think it feels too...rigid, inflexible. I'm not sure, I'm definitely going to give it another look over.
Regarding sanity, there are actually several variants of the base sanity system in Unearthed Arcana all rolled into one, but I'd be wary. Many of the harsher versions make some degree of crippling insanity almost entirely inevitable while the rest seem to make insanity little more than a minor annoyance.
I'd almost rather see a "paranoia" system instead of a sanity system. The more wierd things a character sees, the jumpier he gets, represented by some shifting modifier to various checks (instead of just dumping long-term, debilitating mental illnesses on PCs when they reach their breaking points).
Of course, that would require developing some sort of new "paranoia" mechanic instead of using existing sanity mechanics, so I'm not sure if you really want to bother. But then again, the sanity mechanic was designed for the orginal Call of Cthulu game and, IMHO, doesn't translate well into the d20 System.
The paranoia mechanic idea you mentioned sounds closer to what I had in mind. I don't want the PCs just going stark raving mad a certian point. I'll definatly play around with that idea, thanks for the inspiration.
So, there is a lot here that I really like, and a lot that I don't get-- likely as a result of being unfamiliar with most auxillary books from WotC. Essentia and Incarnum are mysteries to me, and I really can't comment intelligently on them without more background.
I am loving the change of venue to underground, as opposed to something more traditional. It's a big effect of something very complicated-- you've done lots of things here to create a sense of "otherness" in the setting that will be memorable to players and disconcerting to characters.
I wonder about societies underground. What kind of civilization is there? What sort of cultures exist among the people, or is it a free-for-all to survive? How do the different races really fit in (or, as you point out, do they at all?)
For me, the latter question is the hardest part. I have four visions of underground society for Datrik in my head, and I might include all four. I know that there has to be civilization, to facilitate the development, production, and use of advanced technology, but other than that I'm waffling.
Culture type one is a survival culture, where might makes right and the strongest survive. It is a free for all, usually made from when military units escaped the Voidfall but had no way of contacting other civilization, and therefore degenerated into barbarianism.
Culture type two is a transplant culture, where the people just tried to restart their old surface culture from before, only in a new context. This has been met with varying degrees of success, with some, especially agricultural cultures, failing miserably, while others, especially militaristic cultures, working spectacularly.
Culture Type Three is a culture that sprung up anew in the Lowerlands, or a culture of peoples native to the lowerlands. These tend to not have much history, even among the native races, though they have a lot more history than the ones formed by non-natives.
Culture type four is a scavenger culture that came across some of the lowerlands ruins, inhabited them, and claimed them as their own. These ruins are often inhabited by things, though, so the cultures survival largely depends on what inhabits the ruins and how long until they awake it.
Those are the thoughts I have for now, but I need to develop more, especially some specific cultures.
This is a very evocative and creepy setting. Kudos.
Okay, let's get down to business. You mentioned earlier being a little ambivalent about the place of psionics in Datrik. Have you neglected the Power Word: Rename option? With a little work - which might not be to your taste, I know - psionics could simply be a more refined form of Warlockism, with warlocks as written being the remnant of the original specially-bred strain and psions, &etc being Arcanists or Eldrich, calling upon more versatile forms of the same substance.
I absolutely love your treatment of Incarnum. And yes, I am going to rip it for my own setting in some way, might rename the 'alignments' or something. I hope you don't mind.
Speaking of alignments, you mentioned earlier the possibility of using the Eberron model of using alignments for just a few spells and creature types. PLEASE DON'T. If you use alignments, play them. If you don't, pitch them in the dustbin and get on with the game. (Eberron's alignment situation infuriates me. I've said it before, I'll undoubtedly say it again - a monarch who signs a peace treaty and then proceeds to secretly foment war is not a Good person.)
Regarding cybertech/golemtech - do you have access to Chaositech, from the good lunatics at Malhavoc Press? All about how Lovecraftian critters from beyond are introducing new 'additions' to the natural life forms of the material plane as step one in 'breaking the seals'... rename a few things and tinker with the fluff, and I think you'll find what you're looking for.
Speaking of natural life, what about water and food? Do the lowerlands have extensive supplies of fresh water? Or even salt? And what is the basis of the food chain down there? And how is it changing? Is everyone slowly eating away at the various fungi, adding another layer of desperation to the already desperationy atmosphere, or has a supply of fast-growing easily cultivated 'shroom that makes a good bread and beer been found?
As for what the Glimmerfolk and Rathians contribute to the setting, here are my thoughts - the Glimmerfolk are the reminders of beauty, in a world getting slowly uglier. Instillers of hope, even as they find themselves in regions where they cannot hope to thrive. And the Rathians are reminders of a different kind - reminders of strength. The resilience of those who cling to the old ways mocks the void, and the foresight of those who move on to new ways enlivens the spirit, and stirs the resolve.
As for vampire blooded characters - the traditional name for such beings is dampir, and there are several versions in various d20 sources. Were you thinking of using one of those, or of making your own race?
Edit: Oh yeah, and as for me, my new favorite word is humanoidanity.
Questions:
How big is a Jauntrat?
What does Rilan look like?
Does "Third, he can scry and tread without mirrors, the only known being to do so." mean that you've removed Psionic Teleport?
What is Gorctho?
Wouldn't the Ynothlosh, being uncarnum, be illusions?
Also, I don't read through discussion threads. Is there content here that hasn't been moved to the big thread?
QuoteOkay, let's get down to business. You mentioned earlier being a little ambivalent about the place of psionics in Datrik. Have you neglected the Power Word: Rename option? With a little work - which might not be to your taste, I know - psionics could simply be a more refined form of Warlockism, with warlocks as written being the remnant of the original specially-bred strain and psions, &etc being Arcanists or Eldrich, calling upon more versatile forms of the same substance.
I absolutely love your treatment of Incarnum. And yes, I am going to rip it for my own setting in some way, might rename the 'alignments' or something. I hope you don't mind.[/quote]Speaking of alignments, you mentioned earlier the possibility of using the Eberron model of using alignments for just a few spells and creature types. PLEASE DON'T. If you use alignments, play them. If you don't, pitch them in the dustbin and get on with the game. (Eberron's alignment situation infuriates me. I've said it before, I'll undoubtedly say it again - a monarch who signs a peace treaty and then proceeds to secretly foment war is not a Good person.)[/quote]Regarding cybertech/golemtech - do you have access to Chaositech, from the good lunatics at Malhavoc Press? All about how Lovecraftian critters from beyond are introducing new 'additions' to the natural life forms of the material plane as step one in 'breaking the seals'... rename a few things and tinker with the fluff, and I think you'll find what you're looking for.[/quote] Speaking of natural life, what about water and food? Do the lowerlands have extensive supplies of fresh water? Or even salt? And what is the basis of the food chain down there? And how is it changing? Is everyone slowly eating away at the various fungi, adding another layer of desperation to the already desperationy atmosphere, or has a supply of fast-growing easily cultivated 'shroom that makes a good bread and beer been found?[/quote]As for what the Glimmerfolk and Rathians contribute to the setting, here are my thoughts - the Glimmerfolk are the reminders of beauty, in a world getting slowly uglier. Instillers of hope, even as they find themselves in regions where they cannot hope to thrive. And the Rathians are reminders of a different kind - reminders of strength. The resilience of those who cling to the old ways mocks the void, and the foresight of those who move on to new ways enlivens the spirit, and stirs the resolve.[/quote] As for vampire blooded characters - the traditional name for such beings is dampir, and there are several versions in various d20 sources. Were you thinking of using one of those, or of making your own race?[/quote] Edit: Oh yeah, and as for me, my new favorite word is humanoidanity.[/quote]
Hehe, another favorite of mine. Humanoidanity and Warlockism. Making words is fun.
â,¬ÂHey, Iâ,¬,,¢m an English major. Plenty of jobs for that. I could always go to a factory and make more English!â,¬Â â,¬' A comedian who was at our school.
QuoteHow big is a Jauntrat?
What does Rilan look like?[/quote]Does "Third, he can scry and tread without mirrors, the only known being to do so." mean that you've removed Psionic Teleport?[/quote]What is Gorctho?[/quote]Wouldn't the Ynothlosh, being uncarnum, be illusions[/quote]Also, I don't read through discussion threads. Is there content here that hasn't been moved to the big thread?[/quote]
Not really, though Iâ,¬,,¢ll give it a glance to make sure.
Here's my two cents...
Not to rush you, but all of the information that can be should be put into the other thread. This will make it easier for anyone to understand what you have, instead of searching thorugh 3 or so different places to find information.
I really can't say much more until stuff is collected and finalized. It looks good so far, though.
Ok, I moved everything from here to the other thread. alot of it is verbatim, so I need to add flavor and make it read better, but everything over on the homebrews thread is mostly set in stone at this point.
I just read your geography section, and if yo want to add mystery to your terms, you could call rooms "chambers". just a quick thought.
Quote from: CYMROQuoteI feel like I need new terms, that the ones I have donâ,¬,,¢t feel right. They lack a sufficient air of mystery to me. Help would be greatly appreciated.
Occlusion or mur = wall.
Terebration or druse = door.
Bourse or stafa = room.
Ooo, I like those, and I also like chambers...I might us a combo of the two, mixing them up with CYMROs terms for more scholarly usage, while the others for more common use.
BTW, CYMRO, please direct all future comments to this thread. Thanks. :)
QuoteBTW, CYMRO, please direct all future comments to this thread. Thanks.
Can do...
I get cornfused easily...
Too many divergent threads...
:confused1: :confused:
it's ok, dude - sorry about the confusion, lol. :P
I added the Rathain's stats to the homebrew thread: feedback would be much appreciated.
You probably covered most of my questions in this thread, but after reading the first page, I didn't feel like reading the second page (besides I should be working).
They should have listened to the little prophetic anthropomophic chicken. While reading the introduction I was wondering if the "aliens" were the ones that sent the meteor storm, but after reading more I like the fact that reasons behind the storm and invasion are left vague and undefined. I see the mushroom forests, but where are the inverted mountains?!!! :P
Races:
Rathians- I don't know much about incarnum so I can't comment to much. I do like the failed guardians concept. The turmoil it has brought and how they are dealing with their failure. A PC of this race should have much to work with from a roleplaying perspective. I also like the weapon familiarities for this race.
Glimmerfolk- Are these the shimmerfolk you mention in the Rathians block? They would probably make good bards if that class still exists in this setting.
Tuorth - A wolf like race, very nice. With cattle and other surface creatures mostly extinct what do they hunt?]
Makos and Thrikiki - One and the same or two different races?
Dwarves, Gnomes, and Halfings of the PHB races other than humans these seem the most likely to survive. Dwarves especially, since their cities are usually built within mountains. I know you don't care for them, but they don't have to play a major role. Small pockets may have survived, but many of the cities were destroyed when the meteors crashed into the mountains.
Magic:
Incarnum- Don't know anything about it so I can't comment on this.
Innvocations - Warlocks the only arcane casters left and breed true, very interesting
The Abberations:
Ynothlosh - Do they visit the underground? Are encounter with them no existent? Has there been evidence of any experimentation to support some of the rumors as to why they are here? This could possibly lead you into how some inhabitants of the underdark now have psionic abilities.
The Planes:
I skipped this section, because I haven't done much with different planes.
Fauna and Flora:
I was wondering how you were going to distinguish between night and day fo the Tuorth. I would imagine that some people would have tried to grow the glowmoss, possibly even the brightmoss, on cloth that could be wrapped around a club or similar item to replace the torch, instead of carriing around rocks. I'm glad I had already eaten lunch when I read the domesticated Animals spoiler. An illegal hallucinogen is a great addition to this section. A major food source that has a drawback I like it.
Other:
What is used for currency? What economic systems are in place? What about fish, or something similar, in the underground water systems? You have a knack for making settings very different from the norm. Now if you could only harness your powers into finishing one. :P
Quote from: 14pxRaces:[/size]
Rathians- I don't know much about incarnum so I can't comment to much. I do like the failed guardians concept. The turmoil it has brought and how they are dealing with their failure. A PC of this race should have much to work with from a roleplaying perspective. I also like the weapon familiarities for this race.
Magic:[/size]
Incarnum - Don't know anything about it so I can't comment on this.
Innvocations - Warlocks the only arcane casters left and breed true, very interesting[/quote]
The Abberations:[/size]
Ynothlosh - Do they visit the underground? Are encounter with them no existent? Has there been evidence of any experimentation to support some of the rumors as to why they are here? This could possibly lead you into how some inhabitants of the underdark now have psionic abilities.[/quote]
The Planes:[/size]
I skipped this section, because I haven't done much with different planes.[/quote]
Fauna and Flora:[/size]
I was wondering how you were going to distinguish between night and day fo the Tuorth. I would imagine that some people would have tried to grow the glowmoss, possibly even the brightmoss, on cloth that could be wrapped around a club or similar item to replace the torch, instead of carriing around rocks. I'm glad I had already eaten lunch when I read the domesticated Animals spoiler. An illegal hallucinogen is a great addition to this section. A major food source that has a drawback I like it.[/quote]
Other:[/size]
What is used for currency? What economic systems are in place? What about fish, or something similar, in the underground water systems? You have a knack for making settings very different from the norm. Now if you could only harness your powers into finishing one. :P[/quote]
Lots of good questions that I don't have time to answer right now, I'll get to that in the very near future, since they all need to be answered. Thanks, and I know...I'll finish something as long as I get constant feedback for it, because feedback is what maks me work. :P
Quote from: High Seraph Xathan, The RisenQuoteMakos and Thrikiki - One and the same or two different races?
Geckos with a climb speed, a bonus to the climb skill and a bonus to diplomacy when selling car insurance.
QuoteQuoteTuorth - A wolf like race, very nice. With cattle and other surface creatures mostly extinct what do they hunt?
Perhaps they hunt Makos... Stemming from a long feud between the two races. Just a random thought from my head.
QuoteGeckos with a climb speed, a bonus to the climb skill and a bonus to diplomacy when selling car insurance.
Perhaps they hunt Makos... Stemming from a long feud between the two races. Just a random thought from my head[/quote]
That's actually a really, really cool idea. Consider it ganked. :D