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The Archives => Campaign Elements and Design (Archived) => Topic started by: Stargate525 on July 03, 2007, 02:43:45 AM

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 03, 2007, 02:43:45 AM
Or, My Players do the Darndest Things.

My players decided, upon arriving in town, that they would set up a tavern in the house I granted them as their base of operations. Not being one to complain, I winged the first session, then sat down afterwards and figured out exactly how to do this. The following is what I came up with. Feel free to comment or critique, as I want to see this refined.

First you determine the patronage of the tavern. To do this you count the number of seats and assign them a die roll, like so;

 [table=patronage per eight hours]
[tr][th]Name or Attribute[/th][th]Max seated[/th][th]Die roll[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Banquet Hall[/td][td]-[/td][td]none, allows banquets to be held[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Private table/booth[/td][td]-[/td][td]x2 normal for table[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Longtable[/td][td]6-8[/td][td]4d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Large Circular Table[/td][td]6[/td][td]2d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Circular Table[/td][td]4[/td][td]2d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Square Table[/td][td]4[/td][td]2d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Small Table[/td][td]2[/td][td]1d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Booth, Large[/td][td]6[/td][td]1d10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Booth[/td][td]4[/td][td]1d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Half Booth[/td][td]2-4[/td][td]1d8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Stool, pair[/td][td]2[/td][td]1d4[/td][/tr]
[/table]
You've also got a number of modifying rolls that aren't based on seating. The ones I have are listed below;
[table=Non-seating modifiers][tr][th]Modifying event[/th][th]roll modifier[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Music/Entertainment (perform 10-)[/td][td]-3d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Music/Entertainment (perform 10-20)[/td][td]+1d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Music/Entertainment (perform 21-25)[/td][td]+2d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Music/Entertainment (perform 26-30)[/td][td]+3d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Music/Entertainment (perform 31+)[/td][td]+4d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]VIP recently came here[/td][td]+1d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Newly Opened (first three days)[/td][td]+1d10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Famous for specific drink/food[/td][td]+3d4, +1d6 on that item's sale[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]On a busy intersection/road[/td][td]+2d8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Received a good review within a week[/td][td]+1d6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Received a bad review within a month[/td][td]-3d4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Is in a particularly low-traffic area[/td][td]/2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Is in a particularly high-traffic area[/td][td]x1.5[/td][/tr]
[/table]

[table=Quality of Tavern][tr][th]Rating[/th][th]Modifier[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]10 (five star restaurant, seats booked months in advance)[/td][td]x2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]9 (french name, Suit and tie only)[/td][td]x1.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8 (the soup is 8.50)[/td][td]x1.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]7 (fancy place, mom makes you wear slacks)[/td][td]x1.4[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6 (clean, family owned resaurant)[/td][td]x1.2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5 (average)[/td][td]-[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]4 (Mc Donald's)[/td][td]x.8[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]3 (a filthy taco bell)[/td][td]x.7[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2 (health inspectors have nightmares)[/td][td]x.6[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1 (rats won't even eat here.)[/td][td]x.5[/td][/tr]
[/table]
 [table=Overall Tavern Fit]
[tr][th]Fit[/th][th]Modifier[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Perfect Fit[/td][td]x1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tavern is a bit out of place[/td][td]x.75[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Local "Rebels" go there to make a statement[/td][td]x.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sticks out like a sore thumb[/td][td]x.25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Locals despise it[/td][td]x.1[/td][/tr]
[/table]
Take all the dice and roll them, then take that and multiply by the quality modifier. The result is how many people walked into your tavern today. Once you have the number, note it, as it will be used to determine the profits.

Each drink has a demand associated with it, from 1-10. The higher the number the more will be drunk. The table is as follows;

[table=Drinks][tr][th]gp/gal.[/th][th]Demand number[/th][th]#sold/people[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]21+[/td][td]1[/td][td]2d10/100[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16-20[/td][td]2[/td][td]1d4/90[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11-15[/td][td]3[/td][td]1d6/70[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6-10[/td][td]4[/td][td]1d8/50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1-5[/td][td]5[/td][td]1d10/45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].81-.99[/td][td]6[/td][td]1d12/40[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].61-.8[/td][td]7[/td][td]2d6/35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].41-.6[/td][td]8[/td][td]3d6/30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].21-.4[/td][td]9[/td][td]2d10/25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0-.2[/td][td]10[/td][td]3d10/15[/td][/tr]
[/table]  

the number on the left is how many gold pieces a gallon of the stuff would go for at the price you're selling it. This will require some calculation beforehand, as you will need to figure this out for every drink your tavern sells. The middle number I use to give my players an estimation of the sale rate of the drink without giving them all the table.

These die rolls are made individually for each drink. The number rolled is the amount sold of that drink, so then multiply that times the price and you have your profit.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Tybalt on July 03, 2007, 03:23:29 AM
That's not too bad. I'd add that you can also do a simple table to determine how good a tavern is. 1 being a vile pit of despair, 10 being a place with gorgeous staff and velvet lined seats that serve expensive wines and an exquisite menu.

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Ravenspath on July 03, 2007, 08:20:47 AM
My players are doings something similar except they are building an entertainment troupe/management agency to run also as a spy ring.

In the DMG II there is actually a section on PC's setting up a business, starting costs, profitability and how to figure profit. I'm modifying it a bit but it has some good points about starting costs including licenses, bribes and such. It aslo talks about partners versus staff and such. It may give you some more ideas, even if you aren't using d20.

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 03, 2007, 10:04:06 AM
@Tybalt: That's a good idea. Consider it added.
@Ravenspath: Yeah, I've seen that one. I just don't like that table too much, doesn't go into enough detail and things.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Ravenspath on July 03, 2007, 10:30:09 AM
Agreed, it is lacking but it brought up some points like bribes that I had not thought about. I like what you said in your post about figuring profit. I need to come up with some more details for the troupe. Maybe I will come up with a table based on the prestige of the tavern the performers are in with how many tables filled.

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 04, 2007, 12:10:32 AM
Tables have been updated.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 05, 2007, 09:14:57 AM
Quote from: Stargate525Take all the dice and roll them, then take that and multiply by the quality modifier. The result is how many people walked into your tavern today. Once you have the number, note it, as it will be used to determine the profits.

Are you rolling once for each table type or once per each table?  e.g. Roll 2d6 once for the three Large Circular Tables or roll 2d6 three times, once for each table?  I'm guessing once for each table.  After you have the rolls and modifiers finalized, how are you using that final number to determine the profits?  How does the number of people walking into the tavern today figure into the number of drinks sold, what about meals?
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 09:26:34 AM
Quote from: NarytAre you rolling once for each table type or once per each table?
Once per table.

Quote from: NarytAfter you have the rolls and modifiers finalized, how are you using that final number to determine the profits?  How does the number of people walking into the tavern today figure into the number of drinks sold, what about meals?
that number is rounded to the nearest ten, then noted. Say you had 50 people walk in, and the only thing you sold was ale (for this example a 9 on the demand number scale) so for every ten people, you roll 2d10, making the total number of ales sold 10d10. Once you know how many are sold, I assume you know how to figure out profit.

Meals would be handled the same way, except they would probably have a table with smaller rolls on it, simply because no one walks into a bar and orders 2+ meals.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: LordVreeg on July 05, 2007, 10:43:38 AM
Interesting variation.  3 of my players are extremely enterprising and own a number of establishments.  Love the charts and the use of them.

with any business, you also need a list of fixed costs, normally based on the pay rate or the rental rate of the space.  How much does staff cost, building, bouncers, protection, food cost vs waste/spoilage and basic materials cost?  if it was just gross profit-cost of goods= profit, every restauraunt ever opened would still be in business.  The rule of thumb is that most entertainment business' take three years to turn a profit.

So keep what you have, because it's really nicely done.  But at the end of every week, hit the players up with a bill that is 20-30% of the gross profit for the week (d%).  This assumes basic fixed costs, payroll, etc.  Better musicians, Make them run it like business.

modify from there.  never let them know these exist.
thief guild/bribery issues +2-11%
Bonuses given prior week -2-5%
 capitol improvement made within 2 weeks -2-5%
 capitol improvement made within 30 days -1-2%
 major competitor focussing on them +1-8%
etc.

Also, you might want to add capitol expenditures to non seating modifiers, such aS CAPITOL IMPROVEMENTS and advertising.  gotta go!






Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 05, 2007, 01:13:59 PM
Quote from: Stargate525
Quote from: NarytAre you rolling once for each table type or once per each table?
Once per table.

Quote from: NarytAfter you have the rolls and modifiers finalized, how are you using that final number to determine the profits?  How does the number of people walking into the tavern today figure into the number of drinks sold, what about meals?
that number is rounded to the nearest ten, then noted. Say you had 50 people walk in, and the only thing you sold was ale (for this example a 9 on the demand number scale) so for every ten people, you roll 2d10, making the total number of ales sold 10d10. Once you know how many are sold, I assume you know how to figure out profit.

Meals would be handled the same way, except they would probably have a table with smaller rolls on it, simply because no one walks into a bar and orders 2+ meals.

Thanks for the clarifications, great information all around.

Adding in fixed costs would be a grand addition as LordVreeg mentions.

I'm trying to fit all of this into a spreadsheet for a bit more ease of use and will share it here when/if I can make it work.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Ravenspath on July 05, 2007, 02:44:27 PM
Dang Naryt! :fencing:

I was just about to do that too. I figured put those wonderful tables into Excel and let it do all the math for you!

I look forward to see what you create!
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: sparkletwist on July 05, 2007, 04:05:05 PM
On the issue of quality, I would suggest that it would not necessarily be a completely linear arrangement, and would depend on the environs as well.

If the community is more affluent, the modifiers may be even more harsh for a sub-par tavern, for example.

The reverse is more interesting: A five-star establishment in a poorer community might be seen as an uppity extension of the ruling oligarchy, and people wouldn't go there-- or the local bourgeoisie might take a liking to the place, and try to keep the plebs out. To take this one step further, it may even be seen as a symbol of the fundamental class struggle in society, and prone to the wrath of the third estate. There's a couple of adventure seeds in there, too, I dare say.

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 05, 2007, 04:14:54 PM
Quote from: Stargate525[table=Drinks][tr][th]gp/gal.[/th][th]Demand number[/th][th]#sold/people[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]21+[/td][td]1[/td][td]2d10/100[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16-20[/td][td]2[/td][td]1d4/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11-15[/td][td]3[/td][td]1d6/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6-10[/td][td]4[/td][td]1d8/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1-5[/td][td]5[/td][td]1d10/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].81-.99[/td][td]6[/td][td]1d12/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].61-.8[/td][td]7[/td][td]2d6/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].41-.6[/td][td]8[/td][td]3d6/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].21-.4[/td][td]9[/td][td]2d10/10[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0-.2[/td][td]10[/td][td]3d10/10[/td][/tr]
[/table]

Quote from: Stargate525
Quote from: NarytAfter you have the rolls and modifiers finalized, how are you using that final number to determine the profits?  How does the number of people walking into the tavern today figure into the number of drinks sold, what about meals?
that number is rounded to the nearest ten, then noted. Say you had 50 people walk in, and the only thing you sold was ale (for this example a 9 on the demand number scale) so for every ten people, you roll 2d10, making the total number of ales sold 10d10.

OK, the table is listed in gold pieces per gallon but as per the second quote, we're actually figuring servings and not gallons sold (unless we're selling ale by the gallon tankard :huh: ).  That being the case, am I correct in thinking that we'll need a price per drink as well to actually calculate each day's incoming coin or am I just missing something obvious?
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 05, 2007, 04:30:25 PM
Quote from: sparkletwistOn the issue of quality, I would suggest that it would not necessarily be a completely linear arrangement, and would depend on the environs as well.

If the community is more affluent, the modifiers may be even more harsh for a sub-par tavern, for example.

The reverse is more interesting: A five-star establishment in a poorer community might be seen as an uppity extension of the ruling oligarchy, and people wouldn't go there-- or the local bourgeoisie might take a liking to the place, and try to keep the plebs out. To take this one step further, it may even be seen as a symbol of the fundamental class struggle in society, and prone to the wrath of the third estate. There's a couple of adventure seeds in there, too, I dare say.



It seems to me that you could take the current tables as a tavern perfectly fit to its environment and then apply another multiplier for lower quality fit:

 [table=Overall Tavern Fit]
[tr][th]Fit[/th][th]Modifier[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Perfect Fit[/td][td]x1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tavern is a bit out of place[/td][td]x.75[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Local "Rebels" go there to make a statement[/td][td]x.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sticks out like a sore thumb[/td][td]x.25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Locals despise it[/td][td]x.1[/td][/tr]
[/table]
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 05:36:39 PM
Woo, discussion!

Quote from: NarytIt seems to me that you could take the current tables as a tavern perfectly fit to its environment and then apply another multiplier for lower quality fit:

 [table=Overall Tavern Fit]
[tr][th]Fit[/th][th]Modifier[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Perfect Fit[/td][td]x1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Tavern is a bit out of place[/td][td]x.75[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Local "Rebels" go there to make a statement[/td][td]x.5[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Sticks out like a sore thumb[/td][td]x.25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Locals despise it[/td][td]x.1[/td][/tr]
[/table]

I love it, consider it added.

Quote from: NarytOK, the table is listed in gold pieces per gallon but as per the second quote, we're actually figuring servings and not gallons sold (unless we're selling ale by the gallon tankard :huh: ).  That being the case, am I correct in thinking that we'll need a price per drink as well to actually calculate each day's incoming coin or am I just missing something obvious?
Yeah, you'll need a price per drink. The reason that's not listed is that my game's list of 50+ items, and I'm sure your's would be different.

Quote from: NarytThanks for the clarifications, great information all around.

Adding in fixed costs would be a grand addition as LordVreeg mentions.

I'm trying to fit all of this into a spreadsheet for a bit more ease of use and will share it here when/if I can make it work.
Thanks, that will be added.

The irony is since I don't have excel, the system's creator won't be able to use it!

Quote from: LordVreegInteresting variation.  3 of my players are extremely enterprising and own a number of establishments.  Love the charts and the use of them.

with any business, you also need a list of fixed costs, normally based on the pay rate or the rental rate of the space.  How much does staff cost, building, bouncers, protection, food cost vs waste/spoilage and basic materials cost?  if it was just gross profit-cost of goods= profit, every restauraunt ever opened would still be in business.  The rule of thumb is that most entertainment business' take three years to turn a profit.

So keep what you have, because it's really nicely done.  But at the end of every week, hit the players up with a bill that is 20-30% of the gross profit for the week (d%).  This assumes basic fixed costs, payroll, etc.  Better musicians, Make them run it like business.

modify from there.  never let them know these exist.
thief guild/bribery issues +2-11%
Bonuses given prior week -2-5%
 capitol improvement made within 2 weeks -2-5%
 capitol improvement made within 30 days -1-2%
 major competitor focussing on them +1-8%
etc.

Also, you might want to add capitol expenditures to non seating modifiers, such aS CAPITOL IMPROVEMENTS and advertising.  gotta go!
Soon I'll get a list of employees, as well as overhead.

As for capitol improvements, what do you mean? If you're going to improve the place, it should show up in either a quality bump or some other bonus. I don't see why it need be its own bonus.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: LordVreeg on July 05, 2007, 05:56:12 PM
Sorry.  I was typing while taking 2 calls.  Something had to give.

[blockquote=the immaculate Stargate fivehundered and twenty five]As for capitol improvements, what do you mean? If you're going to improve the place, it should show up in either a quality bump or some other bonus. I don't see why it need be its own bonus.[/blockquote]

2 ways.

First off, after rent/purchase of a business, I have always taken 20%-30% of the total gross of a business and charged it weekly to the owners as 'weekly expenditures', ie, salary, bribes, training costs, unexpected trips to the store for lemons and Vneersberry syrup, wetc.  Then I adjust for a a few other factors.  But I have never told the characters that capitol expenditures will reduce costs.  In other words, buying a bigger iceroom reduces spoilage, buying a case of wine glasses in bulk saves from having to buy them in an emergency, having a bard that can actually detect enchantments to watch for malfesance,etc.
So capitol expenditures reduce costs...but are costs in and of themselves.

However, they also improve the customer experience, and can bring back clients.  And I don't know how many of you have tracked the effectiveness of different advertising mediums through source codes, etc, but a good business can do 80% through repeat/referal business.  

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 05, 2007, 07:59:15 PM
Quote from: Stargate525
Quote from: NarytThanks for the clarifications, great information all around.

Adding in fixed costs would be a grand addition as LordVreeg mentions.

I'm trying to fit all of this into a spreadsheet for a bit more ease of use and will share it here when/if I can make it work.
Thanks, that will be added.

The irony is since I don't have excel, the system's creator won't be able to use it!

While I am writing the spreadsheet in Excel, I am also using it as an exercise in learning OpenOffice Basic and will also post the converted OpenOffice spreadsheet here...when it's done.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 08:57:37 PM
Quote from:  His Lordship Vreeg2 ways.

First off, after rent/purchase of a business, I have always taken 20%-30% of the total gross of a business and charged it weekly to the owners as 'weekly expenditures', ie, salary, bribes, training costs, unexpected trips to the store for lemons and Vneersberry syrup, wetc.  Then I adjust for a a few other factors.  But I have never told the characters that capitol expenditures will reduce costs.  In other words, buying a bigger iceroom reduces spoilage, buying a case of wine glasses in bulk saves from having to buy them in an emergency, having a bard that can actually detect enchantments to watch for malfesance,etc.
So capitol expenditures reduce costs...but are costs in and of themselves.
Aha. I see what you mean. I'm not sure how to implement that into a handy chart, but I'll give it some thought. Suggestions welcome.

I was thinking doing payroll as its own cost.
Quote from:  His Lordship VreegHowever, they also improve the customer experience, and can bring back clients.  And I don't know how many of you have tracked the effectiveness of different advertising mediums through source codes, etc, but a good business can do 80% through repeat/referal business.  
There's truth in that.

Quote from: NarytWhile I am writing the spreadsheet in Excel, I am also using it as an exercise in learning OpenOffice Basic and will also post the converted OpenOffice spreadsheet here...when it's done.
:D
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Sado Oddfoot on July 05, 2007, 10:36:23 PM
Quote from: LordVreegSorry.  I was typing while taking 2 calls.  Something had to give.

[blockquote=the immaculate Stargate fivehundered and twenty five]As for capitol improvements, what do you mean? If you're going to improve the place, it should show up in either a quality bump or some other bonus. I don't see why it need be its own bonus.[/blockquote]

2 ways.

First off, after rent/purchase of a business, I have always taken 20%-30% of the total gross of a business and charged it weekly to the owners as 'weekly expenditures', ie, salary, bribes, training costs, unexpected trips to the store for lemons and Vneersberry syrup, wetc.  Then I adjust for a a few other factors.  But I have never told the characters that capitol expenditures will reduce costs.  In other words, buying a bigger iceroom reduces spoilage, buying a case of wine glasses in bulk saves from having to buy them in an emergency, having a bard that can actually detect enchantments to watch for malfesance,etc.
So capitol expenditures reduce costs...but are costs in and of themselves.


You have to, of course, have to have HIRED people before you put that in, but there is an exact cost of everything in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Dark Lotus on July 05, 2007, 10:45:53 PM
i already have a spread sheet made in excel.... cuz im in stargates campaigne.... and our tavern rocks....
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 10:49:45 PM
Quote from: Dark Lotusi already have a spread sheet made in excel.... cuz im in stargates campaigne.... and our tavern rocks....
Hello Josh. :)

That spreadsheet only does subtraction of inventory and addition of alcohol. I think the above is talking about adding in a function to hit a button and get all the information spat out at you, right?

Quote from: Sado OddfootYou have to, of course, have to have HIRED people before you put that in, but there is an exact cost of everything in the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook.
And hello Colton.  

You will be getting hired people. Unless you want to have to make and clean up 6+ rooms every day. I'll be getting the prices from the guidebook.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Sado Oddfoot on July 05, 2007, 10:53:44 PM
Oh, and Nathaniel, because I'm an ass :P On the "Non-Seating Modifiers" Table you put Music/Entertainment 10-20 twice.

Just thought that you should know =]
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 10:56:34 PM
Quote from: Sado OddfootOh, and Nathaniel, because I'm an ass :P On the "Non-Seating Modifiers" Table you put Music/Entertainment 10-20 twice.

Just thought that you should know =]
fascinating. I have no CLUE what that was supposed to be...
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Dark Lotus on July 05, 2007, 10:59:45 PM
it calculates all total profit in exact change
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Sado Oddfoot on July 05, 2007, 11:03:32 PM
What about a modifier for a newly renevated tavern?

What about a modifier for an older Tavern? [Perhaps like 1d6 per month (or maybe a standard d10 per year) of ownership or something]

And you'll have to make a modifer for the Inns... afterall, I'm sure not EVERY room is filled up per night.

Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 05, 2007, 11:05:48 PM
Quote from: Sado OddfootAnd you'll have to make a modifer for the Inns... afterall, I'm sure not EVERY room is filled up per night.
That'll be under 'How to Run an Inn in Twelve Easy steps!' I'm planning on a DVD series, you see.

It'll probably be a percentage roll, with modifiers.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: LordVreeg on July 05, 2007, 11:10:55 PM
for inn, population vs traffic have a lot to do with it.  Don't we all have those towns that used to be really thriving, that now have the 2 beat up inns, and aren't aging the wine so much as going through it really slowly...
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 06, 2007, 12:39:56 AM
Quote from: LordVreegfor inn, population vs traffic have a lot to do with it.  Don't we all have those towns that used to be really thriving, that now have the 2 beat up inns, and aren't aging the wine so much as going through it really slowly...
oh yeah. It'll be affected by the number of people in the tavern, and that's affected by the traffic.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 06, 2007, 09:19:25 AM
Quote from: Stargate525
Quote from: Dark Lotusi already have a spread sheet made in excel.... cuz im in stargates campaigne.... and our tavern rocks....
Hello Josh. :)

That spreadsheet only does subtraction of inventory and addition of alcohol. I think the above is talking about adding in a function to hit a button and get all the information spat out at you, right?

Yes, so far the thing allows you to enter the number of tables available, indicate which of the non-seating modifiers are in effect and set the quality of the tavern.  Once all of these are set, just run the macro and it spits out all of the data for one full week of business.

Now that I have a basic model in Excel, I'll convert it to OO today and see about posting the file.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 07, 2007, 03:38:31 PM
OK...first run of the spreadsheet in  OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/) format.  There is one macro embedded in the spreadsheet called DiceRolls.  One modification that I made was to remove the Banquet Hall from the Seating table as it has no effect on every day operation.  Feel free to email me (use the link below) with questions or problems.  Once it's finalized, I'll look at converting the spreadsheet into Excel format.

File: 1183836472_376_FT33502_tavern_generator.zip (//../../e107_files/public/1183836472_376_FT33502_tavern_generator.zip)
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 09, 2007, 02:32:17 PM
Excel version of the spreadsheet
File: 1184005937_376_FT33502_tavern_generatorxls.zip (//../../e107_files/public/1184005937_376_FT33502_tavern_generatorxls.zip)
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Naryt on July 10, 2007, 03:34:50 PM
OK, I've run through this a number of times with a small tavern run in a widow's home.  She has one long table that seats 8, two square 4 seaters and two small two seaters.  She runs the only tavern in town on a busy road to the capital (about a day's travel out) and she is the only importer of Velunan Fireamber and Furyondian Emerald Pale outside the city.  Now here's what I'm seeing:

[table=Daily Patronage]
[tr][th]Day 1[/th][th]Day 2[/th][th]Day 3[/th][th]Day 4[/th][th]Day 5[/th][th]Day 6[/th][th]Day 7[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]40[/td][td]42[/td][td]41[/td][td]30[/td][td]36[/td][td]40[/td][td]47[/td][/tr]
[/table]
                                                                        
[table=Drinks Served]
[tr][th]Drink Name[/th][th]Day1[/th][th]Day 2[/th][th]Day3[/th][th]Day4[/th][th]Day5[/th][th]Day6[/th][th]Day7[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]Velunan Fireamber[/td][td]6[/td][td]1[/td][td]2[/td][td]5[/td][td]2[/td][td]1[/td][td]3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Furyondian Emerald Pale[/td][td]11[/td][td]12[/td][td]8[/td][td]13[/td][td]11[/td][td]16[/td][td]12[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Whiskey[/td][td]11[/td][td]10[/td][td]19[/td][td]17[/td][td]21[/td][td]16[/td][td]9[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Brandy[/td][td]17[/td][td]22[/td][td]14[/td][td]16[/td][td]16[/td][td]14[/td][td]17[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Rum[/td][td]14[/td][td]32[/td][td]18[/td][td]22[/td][td]18[/td][td]23[/td][td]15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Gin[/td][td]11[/td][td]37[/td][td]31[/td][td]26[/td][td]18[/td][td]34[/td][td]15[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Table Wine[/td][td]21[/td][td]31[/td][td]32[/td][td]33[/td][td]41[/td][td]23[/td][td]20[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Mead[/td][td]32[/td][td]42[/td][td]50[/td][td]44[/td][td]41[/td][td]42[/td][td]31[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Ale[/td][td]42[/td][td]39[/td][td]35[/td][td]45[/td][td]42[/td][td]61[/td][td]26[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Beer[/td][td]63[/td][td]62[/td][td]67[/td][td]71[/td][td]54[/td][td]64[/td][td]43[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]Total Drinks Each Day[/td][td]228[/td][td]288[/td][td]276[/td][td]292[/td][td]264[/td][td]294[/td][td]191[/td][/tr]
[/table]

The problem is that with only 30 customers on Day 3, she's still selling nearly 300 drinks.  That's 10 per costumer.  While she does keep a very well stocked and varied supply, 10 drinks/customer is quite high even with her famous drinks.

I modified the drinks table as follows:

[table=Drinks][tr][th]gp/gal.[/th][th]Demand number[/th][th]#sold/people[/th][/tr]
[tr][td]21+[/td][td]1[/td][td]2d10/100[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]16-20[/td][td]2[/td][td]1d4/90[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11-15[/td][td]3[/td][td]1d6/70[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]6-10[/td][td]4[/td][td]1d8/50[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1-5[/td][td]5[/td][td]1d10/45[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].81-.99[/td][td]6[/td][td]1d12/40[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].61-.8[/td][td]7[/td][td]2d6/35[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].41-.6[/td][td]8[/td][td]3d6/30[/td][/tr]
[tr][td].21-.4[/td][td]9[/td][td]2d10/25[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]0-.2[/td][td]10[/td][td]3d10/15[/td][/tr]
[/table]

I am also rounding to the nearest 5 instead of nearest 10.  The result is that now our widowed tavern owner is selling between 25 and 100 drinks a day with much wider variations.  The interesting thing that this provides is that it is now entirely possible for our little tavern to see days where no drinks are bought at all excepting one or two of her specialty drinks.

  NOTE
You can easily make the above changes to either spreadsheet by simply editing the Calculations sheet and changing the demand values in the Drinks Sold table.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 16, 2007, 11:33:14 PM
It's a good change, and a problem I should have seen. The reason that hasn't cropped up in my game is that the largest variety they've had is three drinks. With a larger selection, that will obviously get thrown out of whack.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: LordVreeg on July 17, 2007, 10:50:27 AM
Very good change.  I tend to have 4-5 choices of beer, 4-5 wines, and 4-5 liquors at an average Igbarian inn, though the 'Upper Crust' has 5 times that.  
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Túrin on July 19, 2007, 05:27:17 AM
If I understand what you're doing here correctly, you determine the amount of drinks of a particular type that are sold based on the price of that drink and the number of customers present, independent of the other drinks that are available.

This means that other things being equal, a tavern with two types of drinks on the menu will have total revenues twice as large as a tavern with one type of drink.

Basically, this means taverns can have their profits scale towards infinity (linearly!) simply by making more types of drinks available.

To prevent abuse, accounting for the variety in the menu in determining the number of drinks per type sold is an absolute must.

Aside from this small flaw, a well thought-out system. Good work!

Túrin
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Stargate525 on July 19, 2007, 12:38:53 PM
I recognize the problem. If you've got a suggestion on fixing it, I'm open to hear it.
Title: How to Run a Tavern in 12 Easy Steps!
Post by: Túrin on July 19, 2007, 01:07:52 PM
Make total profit depend directly on the number of customers (i.e. total revenues for one night = Xd6 sp, where X is the number of customers that night), adjusting for the quality level of the tavern (so a very high profile tavern that appeals to the rich and serves mostly expensive drinks might instead earn Xd4 gp per night, while some backwater peasant tavern that serves only the cheapest of ales earns Xd12 cp per night).

The actual numbers are somewhat random, but you get the idea.

Túrin