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Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 28, 2007, 04:40:51 AM
This is the system I've devised using the Unearthed Arcana rules to create three generic classes:
Warrior
Expert
Chosen

---> http://deismaar.pbwiki.com/Generic-Classes

I've transposed abilities from the Druid, Rogue, Paladin (somewhat limited), Wizard/Sorcerer and my own homebrewed non-magical Cleric and Ranger classes as selectable Feats. I've also allowed the ability for players to select a new Class feat every 5 levels.
This is meant to accompany my new Armor Class rules: Reflex as AC/armor as Damage Resistance as listed here --> http://deismaar.pbwiki.com/Armor+Resistances+by+Weapon+Type



Please PEACH!

Cheers~
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 28, 2007, 04:51:08 AM
Expanding to include the NPC Aristrocrat and Commoner. Not using Adepts, since spellcasting isn't commonplace in my campaign.
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 29, 2007, 01:33:49 PM
Feats list finished; expanded number of feats per level for Warrior and Expert.
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Xeviat on July 29, 2007, 09:59:54 PM
First off, what are the bonus skills gained at 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels? Does this mean an extra class skill?

Now, for the breakdown. I believe in a class calculator I have pieced together from various sources. I don't claim that the designers used such a system, but the fact that my system works on the majority of the classes stands for a lot. Each class ideally adds up to 200 points, with an even spread of abilities. The system is based on the notion that 1 feat equals 2 points.

Warrior
d10 HD: 44 points
2 SP: 16 points
1/1 BAB: 60 points
1 High Save: 24 points
S, M, Sh, L, and Med Proficiencies: 10
20 Bonus Feats: 40
Total   194 points

Expert
d6 HD: 28 points
6 SP: 48 points
3/4 BAB: 45 points
2 High Saves: 30 points
S, 1M, and L Proficiencies: 5 points
11 Bonus Feats: 22 points
Total   178 points

Chosen
d4 HD: 20 points
2 SP: 16 points
1/2 BAB: 30 points
1 High Save: 24 points
S Proficiencies: 2 points
5 Bonus Feats: 10 points
Spells: 100 points*
Total   202

So, all of your classes except your Expert are reasonably balanced. Your Warrior could use a few extra proficiencies at first level. Your expert needs a full 20 bonus feats. Your caster is fine.

I would like to recommend that you consider the notion of your classes. Are classes just a skeleton for what someone is working on the most that level (combat, skills, or magic), or are they supposed to be roles for the world. If they are roles, I'd recommend you consider separating some of the feats that are derived from classes, and possibly make talent trees rather than blanket bonus feats. It seems that you got a lot of ideas from True20, and one thing they did is limit certain feats to only being taken with your feat gained when you gain a particular class (expert feats can only be taken on a level in which you gained a level in expert, for instance).

I do like the scope of many of your feats. They put the "oomph" into feats. I'll look over them more closely later.
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 30, 2007, 10:32:49 AM
Kap'n, can you point me towards the Class Calculator you've cobbled together or post how the formula works?

As for the Feat trees, I totally agree. That's what I intend to work on this week; it's going to be a real doozy to integrate these feats into the existing tree.

I had thought about having a division of feats, sort of in the way that fighter-only feats work now (but allowing people to have the option of taking warrior-only feats if they spend two slots [much like how crossclass skills work in 3.5]).

As for the bonus skills, it's a free skill that players can choose to make a class skill (much how bonus feats work).
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 30, 2007, 11:10:33 AM
Ok, here is the revised listing. Let me know what you think, Kap'n - I've Bolded the Skill Point changes:

Warrior
d10 HD: 44 points
3 SP: 24 points
1/1 BAB: 60 points
1 High Save: 24 points
S, M, Sh, L, and Med Proficiencies: 10
20 Bonus Feats: 40
Total 202 points

Expert
d6 HD: 28 points
9 SP: 72 points
3/4 BAB: 45 points
2 High Saves: 30 points
S, 1M, and L Proficiencies: 5 points
11 Bonus Feats: 22 points
Total 202 points

Chosen
d4 HD: 20 points
2 SP: 16 points
1/2 BAB: 30 points
1 High Save: 24 points
S Proficiencies: 2 points
5 Bonus Feats: 10 points
Spells: 100 points*
Total 202

Am I calculating the points correctly here, using your formula?
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Xeviat on July 30, 2007, 11:47:36 AM
Heh, you figured it out pretty well there. Here's the basics of the formulas:

1 Feat = 2 points (Here's the point of contention. I believe that a bonus feat is worth 2 points, no matter if you can choose it or if it is preset. The PHB designers seem to feel that a selectable bonus feat is worth 3 points or so. Unless you can change the feat daily, you only get the same amount of power from it).

HP: 5 hp = 2 points
SP: 5 sp = 2 points

This is based off of Toughness (improved to 5 instead of 3) and Open Minded.

BAB: +1 = 3 points (this includes the bonus for getting extra attacks)

Proficiencies: Any full proficiency group is 2 points. If a character only gets a small portion of the group, they get 1 point.

Saves: +1 to a save is 1 point (based off Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, and Great Fortitude, which are +2 for 2 points).

I'm impressed that everything fell into 202; hah. Why would you rather greatly improve skill points than add extra feats to the expert?
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Moniker on July 30, 2007, 12:04:51 PM
I wanted to balance out the two classes in that the Expert excelled in Skills, whereas the Warrior took the cake with Feats. In essence, the Expert is the catch-all role for those who're more focused on using skills as their safety net, whereas Warriors rely on combat ability to save themselves.

As for the archetypes, I am still developing them (and considering modeling them off of the Forgotten Realms d20 Backgrounds). The "classes" themselves are nothing more than a role, as opposed to the definition of who the character is, whether he be a sly information broker, a canny soldier, a grizzled veteran, an elusive spy, an arms dealer or the like.
Title: Generic Character Classes Revised
Post by: Xeviat on July 30, 2007, 04:13:37 PM
I believe this could be best handled by limiting the bonus feats to those related to the class. Look at the Rogue; they have less combat ability, but they have abilities at almost every level. Things that enhance ones skills (mobility, senses, stealth) are easily expert abilities.

Remember, most d20 games are based around combat; most players want to fight and build their character based on how they want to fight. While a warrior fights with force and tactics, an expert fights with skill, trickery, mobility, and other specials.

I think the expert needs more bonus feats, but I would limit each class's selections of feats to feats related to their role.