The Campaign Builder's Guild

The title says it all.  Let's keep discussion here, instead of in comments on the news page... it will be easier to follow that way.

I think that it is a wonderful idea that you're offering the choice between having a hosted site of two types of quality and not.  Personally, I feel that this kind of small community would be greatly improved by offering such services, as long as they don't attack the functionality of the other services.

Unfortunately, I will probably not be using many of the services available.  A forum is good enough for me, right now, and I don't remember enough of HTML to make a website as professionally as I would like.

But kudos on doing the best you can to provide a home for those of us serious about our own campaign settings.  In my opinion, the CBG's already far surpassed many of the other such sites.  Keep it up. :)

Ish, what has the discussion concerned so far?

I think this is an excellent solution!  I didn't use the old interface at all because I found it far too limited.  I will, however, most likely take advantage of one of the two plans some time shortly!  (Need to take care of minor details like rent and utilities first...)

First off I think you get points for using the word 'webbry'.

Personally I like the idea of wikifarm if it can be set up where only the person in charge of those certain pages can make the changes. Wiki's seem to be very easy to update and would be useful for organizing everything. While the professional sites would be very cool also I think for ease of use I would go with the wiki.

Now saying that I don't know for sure that I would use them as a friend and I are working on building a gaming related site (that you will all be invited to join) that will, hopefully, have some form of a wiki on them for both my worlds. But that may not happen for a bit and I would use them for sure. And depending on the policies I may just link from my site to the wiki here.

Okay, I am all for the wiki option.

I'm probabbly gonna end up going for the full on hosting option. Looks pretty nice, though.

I'll certainly be using the wikifarm. Coolness. High-five, Ishy.

Thanks for the responses so far guys.  I'm sure a lot of you could tell from the tone of my news post that I was a little worried about how some of the site may react.  I'm glad to see you guys have proven me wrong.  I love hosting this site. :)

And thanks PK for the turtle pic, that made my day! :)

And us site memebrs love it being hosted!

This is great news.  I've always thought that the CBG would probably be the only site I'd ever want to spend any money on, and with the way things are going, I might end up doing just that.

Quote from: IshmaylAnd thanks PK for the turtle pic, that made my day! :)

No prob :) Though this seems an unusual thread to discuss it in  x.


Obviously there are serious advantages to a website format, so if I were still actively updating the Kishar site I'd seriously consider the $5 a month option.

Wikis are cool too, and probably easier for people that don't know any HTML/CSS.

Musings:

I am glad that the wiki/wikifarm idea [note=Question]What is a "wikifarm?" Does it grow potatoes?[/note] is getting such support. The appeal seems to be that the format is easy to use, which I think is going to be a great path for getting new people interested in using Hosting options, particularly in the case of individuals who aren't comfortable with more intense coding.

I don't know if I'll use it myself, because I'm not familiar with working with wikis at all. I suppose this might be an excellent opportunity to learn.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is that right now, I'm not sure what I'll do. I will probably poke my nose around a few different options before deciding.

Ishy, a question: Would the pay-for-hosting options also help fund the site in any way? The newspost says they will be used for server maintenance, but I don't know what that entails. I know the CBG costs a good chunk of cash to run and that you eat most of the expense out of your own pocket. So would these hosting fees help defray those costs at all?

I ask, because I think a lot of people would be more likely to use the paid hosting option if it turns out that doing so would also help pay for the whole site to run.

Good question LC,
"Server Maintenance" tends to be a bit of a catch-all term.  The CBG costs a certain amount of money a month to run, and that money comes out of my pocket.  A long time ago, the Opal Council had the idea that we could sell a few things through the CafePress site and that would help pay for things.  However, there are two problems with that.  One, no one has bought anything (in fact, ElDo and I have both personally purchased items off the site to give away as prizes, which depletes money from my pocket ;)), and two, the costs of the server are high enough that it would take a quite a few sold items to compensate.  So, the Guild is fronted out of my own pocket.

Since I have bought into the server as a partner, I now pay money for my spot on the server, as well as any paid upgrades that we need to do.  Plus, if I end up needing to get a personal server for IRC (instead of using a shared server), that will cost more money.

So, the short answer is, "Yes, if you pay for hosting, it will go towards helping me pay my portion for the upkeep of the site."  

Now, don't go thinking I'm holding the site hostage for donations or hosting or anything.  I can handle the bill for the time being, and if I couldn't, I would let you guys know (or I would skimp on the server and we'd be back on dreamhost;) ).  Make no mistake though, if you pay for hosting, you are personally helping to keep this site running.

I was hoping you'd say that. This'll make it that much easier to justify a probable future decision to use the paid hosting.

Since this thread looks an awful lot like the current poll question, I'd like to try and spice it up a bit with some wikifarm questions, because I'm not really sure what that is! Hopefully this can persuade me (and others who may be on the fence) about the merits of the wiki format!

1.) What is a "wikifarm"? Is that just a group of wikis?

2.) Can post my setting in a wiki without worrying about Joe Intarnetz having the ability to alter and delete my information at will?

2b.) If I were doing a group project with other members of the site, could we set up a wiki editable by multiple authors?

3.) How difficult (or easy) is it to learn the coding required?

4.) How difficult (or easy) is it to change the look of a wiki page? Is layout and appearance a matter of choosing from a list of preset templates, or can I customize things?

5.) What are some of the benefits of using a wiki rather than a regular webpage? I gather that they are easier to build and less potentially dangerous to the server-- do they have any advantages in terms of how they present content?

Quote from: Luminous Crayon1.) What is a "wikifarm"? Is that just a group of wikis?

It's essentially just a "group" of wikis.  However, it's much neater than that.  The main server part of it will be controlled by me, but anyone that requests one can have their own unlimited wiki to administer.  You know pbwiki?  Well, you would have all administrative capabilities for your wiki, and no one could change your stuff without your permission, as well as you could have your own style that everyone would see.  So yeah... a group of wikies.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon2.) Can post my setting in a wiki without worrying about Joe Intarnetz having the ability to alter and delete my information at will?

Yes, you will essentially be able to pick and choose if anyone else other than you can edit parts of your setting.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon2b.) If I were doing a group project with other members of the site, could we set up a wiki editable by multiple authors?

I think so.  As a worse case scenario though, all the members of a project could be given the username and password for a particular wiki project.  However, with the way I'm planning on setting it up, I believe there will be able to be multiple users on single projects.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon3.) How difficult (or easy) is it to learn the coding required?

Extremely.  You know how forums have a special code called "bbcode" that basically lets you do html without having the knowledge of (or the power of) html?  wikicode is the same way, just different tags.  We'll be using the same wiki we currently have, MediaWiki (I think), so you should get a bit of practice in at the CBGwiki if you feel the need.  

Quote from: Luminous Crayon4.) How difficult (or easy) is it to change the look of a wiki page? Is layout and appearance a matter of choosing from a list of preset templates, or can I customize things?

For the wikifarm, you can change the look of your particular "farm" or project to any theme or style that is uploaded, and anyone who visits your wiki will see the style you want them to see.  There will probably originally just be the 10-or-so MediaWiki default styles, but we'll add more as time goes by.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon5.) What are some of the benefits of using a wiki rather than a regular webpage? I gather that they are easier to build and less potentially dangerous to the server-- do they have any advantages in terms of how they present content?

Well, only that they are much easier to edit and fix mistakes than a regular web page.  But the number ONE benefit is with the security issues, and not with the actual wiki features.

Hope I answered your questions suitable; I'll try to get some more info up about the farm as soon as I've got all the kinks worked out on the test site and know more myself ;)

Quote from: Luminous CrayonWhat is a "wikifarm?" Does it grow potatoes?

Of course not. Don't be silly! It grows cabbages. Quality cabbages (http://www.thecbg.org), in fact. ;)

Okay, more questions, but this time they are about the paid hosting options.

Quote from: Plan 2 From Outer SpaceDomain name routing to personal domain

1 Database (if you want your own forums, wiki, etc)[/quote]do?[/i]

Also, what about people who sign up for Plan 1 hosting and later decide to upgrade to Plan 2 (or sign up for Plan 2 decide to switch to Plan 1?) I assume this is possible? Does it hassle the data matrices or something?

Good questions.

You can register (http://www.register.com/) your domains (http://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/default.asp) from many (http://www.domainregister.com/)  different locations. (http://www.active-domain.com/)  I personally recommend Yahoo's domain registration (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/), but it's up to you.  You can register pretty much anything you want that's available.  www . luminouscrayonisabettergodthanzeus . com is most likely available, but it would be really hard for people to type that everytime they wanted to get to your site.  Right now, we have it set up for one domain redirect per account.  So, if you wanted to cover "Jade Stage" and "Lords of Meta Realm" and "LC's Wacky Blog," then most likely, you would want to register a domain that's a bit more generic than your campaign name - something like www . luminouscrayon . com, which would probably be good.  Then, when you purchased a hosting option, we would just set up a redirect from your files to your domain, and viola!

As for databases, there are a lot of things you can do.  Databases are basically just a way that you can store data (duh!), as well as run applications, which is significantly cooler.  For instance, if you wanted to run blog (especially one that could look however you wanted, and not just be based on some themes that the site administrator has pre-installed), you could install wordpress on your site (with a database) and have your very own blog.  If you felt that flat html and php wouldn't run your site properly, and you wanted to use a CMS (content management system), you could install drupal, e107 (I don't recommend that one), or many others to make a dynamic site.  If you wanted to run your very own zombie game, or one of those Red Dragon games, or something like that, you could as well.  Databases won't be useful for everyone, but you can do a lot with them other than just store data.

We haven't discussed any sort of upgrade plan yet, but I imagine it won't be too difficult.

QuoteAs for databases, there are a lot of things you can do.  Databases are basically just a way that you can store data (duh!), as well as run applications, which is significantly cooler.  For instance, if you wanted to run blog (especially one that could look however you wanted, and not just be based on some themes that the site administrator has pre-installed), you could install wordpress on your site (with a database) and have your very own blog.  If you felt that flat html and php wouldn't run your site properly, and you wanted to use a CMS (content management system), you could install drupal, e107 (I don't recommend that one), or many others to make a dynamic site.  If you wanted to run your very own zombie game, or one of those Red Dragon games, or something like that, you could as well.  Databases won't be useful for everyone, but you can do a lot with them other than just store data.

We haven't discussed any sort of upgrade plan yet, but I imagine it won't be too difficult.[/quote]That's okay. I really just wanted to get to say "hassle the data matrices."

Now, as far as what we can put on these sites, does it have to be related to the CBG? Because I have a FPS clan called Doom Platoon and I'm running it off of freewebs right now.

Vorpal,
Though I would prefer all sites on theCBG.org to be campaign-building-related, realistically, if you're paying for hosting, I'm certainly not going to stop you from posting your Doom Platoon.  And I'm not going to hold it against you either.  So the answer is, yes, you could do that.  

However, for things like the wikifarm, journals, etc, I definitely think they should be campaign related.

Also, any idea when the services will be launched, Ishy?

I have an idea, but I don't know if I should say yet...

However, you guys remember Turin's interview of me in a previous Guide where I mentioned "The CBG v2.0" ?  Well th-

[/ends as a gloved hand muffles his face and pulls him into the darkness]

:sosad:

Suprises are koolio though.

Quote from: Ishmayl[/ends as a gloved hand muffles his face and pulls him into the darkness]

I have seen the top of the mountain...


And it is good.

[/ends as a gloved hand muffles his face and pulls him into interrogatory light]

Originally I stated that I was for plan 1 as I love the idea of a wikifarm. But I have to state I am leaning more towards Plan 2 right now. A friend and I are trying to build a game related site that will focus on reviews and other items. Our current service provider has completely let us down. We have had the site for almost a month and we still cannot get into our forums on a regular basis, upload avatars (when we can get in) and do just about anything on the site. We are trying to cancel with them and would be very interested in hosting the site through the CBG server.

Of course everyone will be invited to join our forums too as I hope to build a close relationship with the CBG and the Alliance. But that is a ways off since we can't get our forums working.

Any further news on the hosting capabilities?

No more news, right now we're just working on getting things running.  I may have a pretty interesting news announcement by the end of this weekend though.

Quote from: IshmaylNo more news, right now we're just working on getting things running.  I may have a pretty interesting news announcement by the end of this weekend though.

I can't stand the antici... [spoiler]... [spoiler]... [spoiler]... [spoiler]...pation![/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler][/spoiler]

Well, "those in charge" didn't have the opportunity to discuss a few things tonight like we had planned, so I have no new news for you, but we're still moving forward.

I actually do have news after all.  It looks like MediaWiki, which is the wiki software we use for our wiki, has a FreeMind plugin that we will be implementing.  Fun, fun!

Quote from: IshmaylI actually do have news after all.  It looks like MediaWiki, which is the wiki software we use for our wiki, has a FreeMind plugin that we will be implementing.  Fun, fun!

Hot!

I've been playing with FreeMind all morning, to the detriment of my other work.

Looks like I'm going to end up moving not only my Jade Stage notes into FreeMind, but also my to-do lists, lesson plans, recipe rolodex, and other delicious trifles as well.

I'm with Luminous here.  Ishmayl, that FreeMind is quite the find.  I can't wait to move my information there.  It's incredible!

that's great news guys, I'll be keeping you up to date on the progress.

Bumping this thread so people don't forget about the upcoming options. Who's excited? I am excited!

I'm interested in who will be using the new options, and how. I'm brainstorming ways to organize and present my information, and would be pleased as punch to hear about some of the methods you folks will be using.

Me, I like CSS/HTML, but the wikifarm is increasingly more enticing. Maybe I'll use both?

I, for one, love the idea of a wikifarm. I'll be posting my stuff on the normal wiki for now, and farm it once that gets here.

It's there a projected release date?

Quote from: LCWho's excited?

The Phoenix is so excited he might burst into flame!

I expect I'll start with the Wikifarm for the Kishar encyclopedia, then maybe use the new hosting options for the main website, with links back to the farm. In this way, I hope to cut down on the number of website documents I need for terms.

But then, it kind of depends on space limits on the wikifarm, too.

Quote from: EclipseIt's there a projected release date?

Not one precise enough to mark on your calendar, but we're assured it is "very soon."

In the meantime, what are you using for your campaign wiki? I might be interested in having a throwaway sort of space to play with my campaign information before the wikifarm goes live, with expectations of transferring it all to the wikifarm later.

So far, not anything - I'm still getting everything organized in MSWord. I'll be transfering it over sometime in the next few days. I'll be using the CBGWiki. :) Same with the transfer to the wikifarm - for now, it's going to mainly be experimenting and getting information down.

Quote from: PhoenixI expect I'll start with the Wikifarm for the Kishar encyclopedia, then maybe use the new hosting options for the main website, with links back to the farm. In this way, I hope to cut down on the number of website documents I need for terms.

But then, it kind of depends on space limits on the wikifarm, too.

I'm really torn between webhosting and wikifarm solutions. I think your mishmash of the two is a pretty good compromise between the two, but I'm still not sure how I want to manage my own stuff. Here's my trouble:

Webhosting: PROS

Lots of control over layout, setup, etc.
Can play with CSS, etc, have lovely fun
A groovy lc.thecbg.org address (and other stuff bundled in Ishy's hosting deal)
Freedom to use images, color, other visual niceties
Surprisingly cheap way to entertain myself
Easy to download a backup of the whole shebang


Webhosting: CONS

Updating stuff is a little more involved, time-consuming
Sometimes code can be frustrating! (but not too bad)
Need to learn more about webpage layout/navigation and design a better version than the one I've got now
Not searchable


Wiki: PROS

Easy/quick to update
Layout is pretty intuitive by default
Incredibly easy for readers to browse/navigate/find information
Searchable (HOT)
Don't cost nothin'


Wiki: CONS

Not as pretty as a custom page
Something else, I suppose?


Honestly, I think my ideal "have me cake and eat it, too" scenario would be a webpage with PHP, CSS, pretty pictures, and other goodies. BUT, it would be easily searchable like a wiki, and heavily interconnected with links the way wikis almost invariably are. (I want readers to be able to easily browse my information nonlinearly.) I will likely have to mix webhosting and wikifarming to achieve this, I think. I just can't make up my mind!

You know, now that I think about it for a while, I can easily see myself using a Wiki as a temporary information dump, to help me get my thoughts in order before transferring everything to a nicer-looking webpage.

I think the wiki format's strengths involving ease and quickness of making new pages and linking ideas together makes a wiki very similar to an "idea map" style of prewriting exercise. I can easily imagine the process of getting things into wiki format jostling the writer's brain into seeing connections and parallels that may have been previously hidden.

Yeah, I found that a bit when making an inter-connected web page.

Quote from: Luminous CrayonWebhosting: CONS


Not searchable

Actually, it's pretty easy to set up a little search box that will search your site.

[/derailment]

Quote from: IshmaylActually, it's pretty easy to set up a little search box that will search your site.

[/derailment]

Tell me. I hmust know.

[/Inigo Montoya]

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: IshmaylActually, it's pretty easy to set up a little search box that will search your site.

[/derailment]

Tell me. I hmust know.
[/Inigo Montoya]

Yes, yes do not keep us in the dark Ishy.

Is this one of the uses of databases in a site?

Whenever I try to sign on to the wiki, I get this error message:

Quote from: Angry WikiFatal error: Call to undefined function wfMemcKey() in /home/brandon/public_html/wiki/extensions/recaptcha/ConfirmEdit.php on line 336

Is there a way I can create pages without logging in?

Edit: I figured out how to create pages, though I still can't log in. :(

Perhaps one could put the more story-like descriptions in the new hosting area, while linking individual terms to the wikifarm, which would serve as a glossary. :yumm:

Túrin

Yeah, that's what I was leaning towards, Turin. Wealths of information on site, whereas explanations about terms, people, and so forth would be more likely to be referenced on the Wiki.

Not sure yet about whether I would transfer the Kishar bestiary.

Eclipse, I'll check out that error when I get home today; I apologize, I haven't had an issue logging in, so I'm not sure what's going on.

Another noob wiki question:

When wikifarms go live, will it be possible to selectively make certain areas editable by anyone, and certain other areas editable only by the author?

Specifically, I am wondering if it would be possible for me to allow anybody to edit the Community Portal page, and any discussion page on my wikifarm, but retain sole editing powahs for other pages (i.e., setting content.)

LC, I believe that should be something that's available as the admin of a particular wiki, but I'll have to do a bit more research on that to be sure.

On a related note, I'm still having trouble signing on to the wiki - is it possible to fix, or should we just wait for the wikifarm?

Yeah, sorry about that eclipse... due to unforeseen circumstances, I now have even less time for bug-fixing at the moment. :(  Please be patient, I am working on many different things for the site, but it may take a bit of time.

oh, not a problem, I completely understand. :) I'm just happy to have the wiki, and the only thing I'd possibly want to log in for would be to upload pictures, which I haven't really needed to do yet - I can still insert them via links. If it would help, don't worry about it at all - I'll just patiently await the wikifarm.

Since it's been a little while, I just thought I'd check to see if there's been any exciting news on these subjects.

Or exciting dates! *hint**hint*

no dates, still a relatively (un)steady supply of news (check front page).  Date won't be determined for a bit, due to several other projects going on, but it's still a priority of mine.

I'm still trying to just get a handle on using the wiki in the first place and having never used one before, don't really understand what all can be done with it. I've used FreeMind at times for a while now (and know it is has a lot of capabilities I haven't learned to make use of yet), so it would be very helpful to me to get some insight on how it can be utilized with the wiki. And what is the wikifarm?