The Campaign Builder's Guild

Quote

Keep on the Shadowfell

[/b]
A D&D adventure for characters of levels 1-3.

The town of Winterhaven stands watch over a ruined keep that was once a bastion of good in the realm. This keep overlooks the Shadow Rift, a dark scar in the world that was once a gateway to the Shadowfell but has been dormant for many years. Now, an evil cleric of Orcus, Demon Lord of the Undead, seeks to re-open the gate, and the only thing standing in his way is a small yet determined band of heroes from Winterhaven.

Keep on the Shadowfell is an exciting Dungeons & Dragons adventure designed for characters of levels 1-3. It includes three double-sided poster maps suitable for use with D&D miniatures, as well as information on the town of Winterhaven and environs.

So now, I know that Wizards didn't actually (most likely) steal my stuff, but man, between the title of the adventure, and the background info involved, some of that description sounds way too close for comfort. :(

Ouch. You could object, but I doubt you'd get anywhere with it.

This does not bode well.

Quote from: Rocket MisfireThis does not bode well.

It doesn't? At least we know they're stealing from the best.

In Dutch we have a saying that goes something like: "better well copied than badly created". :)

Túrin

Yeah, there's the "I'm flattered that I'm being copied" saying here in this language too.

Table top RPG gaming is an art that our society generally does not give great (monetary) rewards to with the exception of a few elite, like WotC. When the elite are copying from those that pursue the art for their passion for it and not the bling from being part of the elite, we have a problem.

I love making stories for my gaming group to co-operate in telling. I don't think about how much money I could make if I charged money for it. But if someone were to charge money from my creativity, guess who I believe should get the money?

Edit-> Oh and Link: http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=1046
I started a thread on another board. First response:

Quote from: Captain_BleachWhen did Wizards make their "version?"  If you feel wronged, and they DID steal your idea, then threaten a law-suit.

Well, unless they started working on this one adventure back in 2003 (doubtful?), then I came up with Shadowfell first :)

Guys, I'm not going to post this person's name, but I have actually been talking with someone who went through something a couple years ago.  Here's the conversation:

Quote from: My First PMI've been doing some research lately on some issues that have arisen around the site, and I thought it would be worth my while to ask you about them. I've posted some material on these boards that all of a sudden have a very uncanny resemblance to a new WotC product. I've contacted a few people about the subject, but have not yet received any sort of official word back from anyone, and I've since let the subject drop (with the knowledge that I will never again post anything on these boards that I don't want WotC to steal). Then recently, reading up on [names of threads and posters removed, I referenced a thread at WotC], he removed all his material, and cited an issue you had as his reason. I was just curious what happened. If you don't feel like divulging that information to a complete internet stranger, I definitely understand, but I was just wondering if it was a similar situation to mine, and if there's anything that can be done about it.
Cheers!
-Ish

I suppose, both from the tone of your response, as well as the lack of official word I've received back on the subject, that there is nothing that can be done about this? Whether or not one clicks "I agree," somehow it just doesn't seem right (and that last statement is laced with a bit of sarcasm, which is probably hard to hear over the medium of the internet).[/quote]
No, there is nothing you can do about it other than not post up material you want to maintain sole ownership of.

When you hit "I Agree", you signed a legally binding document. There is nothing you can do, because you legally gave WotC permission to do it. "But I didn't read the contract before I signed it!" is not a defense, and you would just get laughed out of court.

So, yeah, bottom line is that you gave them express permission to take anything and everything you ever put on the boards, and to use it in any way they see fit, and gave them permission to do so without ever paying you, or giving you any official recognition in any way.

Sucks, don't it?
The only way to avoid this in the future, if you still want to show it to people on the boards, is to put it up on your own personal webpage, and then link to that page in your post.

And I'll give you a warning I didn't get.
If you go around publically [sic] saying WotC stole your stuff, you will get a message from the WotC legal department that basically says "Shut your mouth, or we're suing you for slander."  My advice is to let it drop.  Sorry that's not much good news.[/quote]

So what do you guys think of that?  

Did you put Shadowfell on the WotC boards?

Yeah, but it's been awhile... the only way you can find it now is by going to their archives.  It would have been at least 2k5 since I actually updated/posted any campaign-specific stuff there.

BTW, I'm not asking what do you guys think about the legality of these shenanigans.  I know that legally, I signed something in some way that said they could use their enormous resources to pay someone to steal my work, rather than pay them to come up with their own stuff. I'm just curious what you think of the over all "We can use your stuff without paying you" clause?

Need some inspiration?

(//../../e107_files/public/1189021626_33_FT37826_mistake.gif)

That's right. Serve as a warning to others.
You gave Edisons of the Coast Shadowfell. Unknowingly, but you did.

Now what? You can't get compensated for your creativity. But maybe you can help other people in the future.

Add to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast threw posting."

I guess I should state, realistically, there until the game actually comes out, there will no proof one way or the other that they actually did "lift" intellectual property that they themselves did not develop.  But damn, come on... Shadowfell???  :)

Well, one option I read about on the WotC boards was putting everything crunchy under the OGL and designating the important parts (creatures, names, prestige classes, etc) as product identity.

However, as I'm absolutely no lawyer I wonder if that would work. Which "contract" would take precidence, the Gleemax ToU or the OGL? :huh:

Unlikely that you could override the ToU contract unilaterally just by saying so. Although possible - a lawyer might argue that if you put the alternative terms in your post and they don't contest it, they've implicitly accepted the modified agreement.

The thing is, in some ways I sympathize with WotC. Put up message boards, you'll surely get an avalanche of monsters, spells, items, settings, and whatnot posted up. Sooner or later, something someone posted will be "uncannily" similar to something that you've had in the works - after all, we're mostly working from the same cultural and literary basis, so similarities aren't too unexpected.

So they want to, perhaps even need to, protect themselves from baseless claims. And avoid having to document and police themselves for the ultimate source of every idea and notion that crosses their minds.

Thing is, once those terms are in place, it essentially gives the WotC folks carte blanche to skim the boards to more-or-less blatantly rip off ideas and mechanics. Need a monster concept, or NPC for your adventure? Gee, I think I saw something that would fit the bill in the forums ... let me go see ... yup, a little tweak here and there, that will do nicely ...

Ultimately, if you put stuff up on WotC boards, you can enjoy the comparatively wide audience for your stuff, with the knowledge that it might end up in some form in WotC products, unacknowledged. Just take some pride in the fact that they thought your idea was worthwhile.

If you don't want your stuff showing up in someone else's publication, post it somewhere (like here) that doesn't have much commercial interest in ripping it off. We don't need those kinds of terms at CBG because we don't have an independent publishing agenda.

Or just keep it to yourself until you publish it.

QuoteI'm just curious what you think of the over all "We can use your stuff without paying you" clause?

So now, I know that Wizards didn't actually (most likely) steal my stuff,[/quote]

Quote from: Rocket MisfireAdd to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast through posting."

If you do this at least use the proper words.

LC, I've been keeping that in mind the whole time.  I'm not convinced in any way that anyone did steal my stuff.  I just thought it made a good conversation and/or rant-against-WotC topic :)

Quote from: IshmaylBut damn, come on... Shadowfell???  :)

Devil's Advocate time:

1.) Compound names are all over fantasy literature and gaming.

2.) Shadow/darkness is a very common symbol for dangerous and evil stuff, and has a pretty long tradition of use in D&D (negative energy plane, etc.)

3.) "Fell" (the adjective) is a convenient word because it's antiquated-sounding, it basically means "dangerous" and it doesn't share adjacent consonants with "shadow" (so the resulting compound is easier to pronounce clearly than, say, "shadow well" is.)

It's definitely not the kind of word you hear people saying all the time, but commonly-encountered words generally do not make for memorable titles.

QuoteLC, I've been keeping that in mind the whole time. I'm not convinced in any way that anyone did steal my stuff. I just thought it made a good conversation and/or rant-against-WotC topic

True, and ranting is always fun, but I think we might be jousting at windmills here. :)

Quote from: Poseidon

Quote from: Rocket MisfireAdd to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast through posting."

If you do this at least use the proper words.

I've modified the auto-spell checker of my computer to recognize "thru". I spell your "through" T-H-R-U. And that's how I like it.

Quote from: Rocket MisfireI've modified the auto-spell checker of my computer to recognize "thru". I spell your "through" T-H-R-U. And that's how I like it.

except you spelled it T-H-R-E-W. ;)

Quote from: Luminous Crayon[...] True, and ranting is always fun, but I think we might be jousting at windmills here. :)

Which is a perfectly legimate tactic! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=LV_x_EDnFf8) ;)

</offtopic> :P

Quote from: Stargate525

Quote from: Rocket MisfireI've modified the auto-spell checker of my computer to recognize "thru". I spell your "through" T-H-R-U. And that's how I like it.

except you spelled it T-H-R-E-W. ;)

Wah?

Quote from: Rocket MisfireAdd to your.sig on the WotC boards the line "I post with full knowledge that everything I post becomes the intellectual property of Wizards of the Coast, and that I receive no compensation for any intellectual property I give to Wizards of the Coast threw posting."

helo
I r dumbstar
wel u b mi frend

For future, like that anonymous guy Ishmayl was talking about said, we should just link it from here. Or we could spread the word to some true D&D freaks that linking stuff from other websites gives you experience points...

There is a relevant discussion occurring here

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=761045. On the last two pages.

Quote from: Sir VorpalFor future, like that anonymous guy Ishmayl was talking about said, we should just link it from here. Or we could spread the word to some true D&D freaks that linking stuff from other websites gives you experience points...

Like Marriland.com? Or Gia?

Quote from: Luminous Crayon"Fell" (the adjective) is a convenient word because it's antiquated-sounding, it basically means "dangerous" ...

"Fell" is also a noun that means "wide field."

(Plane of Shadow + thesaurus = Shadow Fell)

Believe it or not, I was actually going to use Shadowfell as a name for... something, way back when, before I saw your setting or any of the others on the WotC forums. That being said, I also think it's possible they could be stealing ideas. It's the perfect place to do it. Hell, I've looked at other people's settings before and thought "oooooh, I want to use that... but he's got it.. and i don't want to be a jerk... damn...", and it's certainly happened more than once. I wouldn't be surprised at all if WotC thought something really was nice and decided to use it. So whoever said to be honored that they stole your stuff made a fairly legitimate argument in my opinion, though the capitalist parts of me would rather people made money off it.

Quote from: Epic Meepo

Quote from:  Shadow Fell)
[/quoteOoh, neat; I had no idea.

Quote from: Luminous Crayon

Quote from: Epic Meepo

Quote from:  Shadow Fell)
[/quoteOoh, neat; I had no idea.

My Safari Zone clone will be called "The Pokéfell"

damnation!  I thought I was original :(

Quote from: Ishmayldamnation!  I thought I was original :(

Don't worry. Your Shadowfell is way cooler than WotC's Shadowfell.

Man, I never even thought about copyright issues with stuff posted on boards. My understanding of current copyright law is that whatever you write is yours unless you explicitly assign copyright to someone else - you don't even need that little copyright sign or anything (though it might help in court).

Without an assignment of copyright, or an explicit license to it, no one else can legally use your words except under Fair Use, which allows excerpts to be used "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research". Oh, and the part in quotes there is taken from Wikipedia under the afore-mentioned Fair Use. =)

Of course, I guess a site's Terms of Service IS a contract explicitly stating that sorta thing, but it usually doesn't involve an assignment of copyright or an exclusive license, just a license stating the site has the right to post what you write online (which might even be considered implicitly understood). Now I have to go find and read WotC's ToS.... :|

That said, there is a rather lax attitude about stuff found on the web. I'm pretty sure I saw a poll on theCBG's own home page once that I'd seen before elsewhere. If those running the site copy stuff that isn't their own work and use it on the website in that manner, then that's probably, technically copyright infringement.

Ishmayl, not that a poll is anywhere near the creative effort of a book or campaign setting, but...considering we're comparing it against a single word "Shadowfell" so far...might this be a small case of the pot calling the kettle black...? ;)

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Everything looks to be in order, here.  No sleazy fine print clause covering Wizards' asses against copyright infringement or the like.  If they are engaging in any nefarious naughtiness, they're as culpable as any sort.

This is what really makes me mad about the whole thing. Notice that in the code of conduct it mentions that you must abide by the "Website Terms of Use"? Note that it doesn't link to it! They make you sign a contract saying that you agree to another contract which you don't see!

Quote from: http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Misc/Index.aspx?doc=websitelegalnoticeTHIS[/url].

*shivers*

I have gazed into the abyss.

And lo, it gazeth back.

I'm just glad the CBG ain't got no such insidious legalese.

It doesnt, right...?[/irony]

NOTE: the terms of use is accessible at the bottom of most pages on the site, or by clicking About Us on the Wizards homepage and then clicking Terms of Use.  Clever trick, totally legal (as far as I know), and very, naughty.

I love how they say that, and then tell you you must "represent and warrant that you have rights" to your content.

I'm going to purge Vilydunn - The Nightmare right now. THEY'LL NEVER TAKE ME ALIVE... OR SLEEPING!

EDIT: Well I would have done that, but it seems I'm archived now.

Yeah, I went back and tried to get rid of all my old Shadowfell stuff, but it's long been archived

I've held off replying on this thread to get it right.
About a decade and a half ago (give or take) I had moved to another state and city, as usual, for a singificant other.  In this case, the 'other' was going to Med School.  I found the local gaming community pretty fast, but was surprised at how open the community was.  I had a group set up within 10 days, and it was on.  
One of the 2 local game store owners was actually playing, and he backed me to the point of setting up meetings with possible publishers.  Due to a typically-idiotic romantic falling out, I ended up leaving town, perhaps thinking in my rear brain that kind of business opportunity would just roll by again.
(I was a very special kind of idiot, in retrospect).

It didn't roll by again.  The real world took a toll, and the idea of publishing my game, a dream which frustles around in all of our heads at one level or another, went the way of all things.  I don't think I ever let it bother me, and I started getting less secretive about the mechanics, and even started letting my players help build the system, which helped.  My game still changed and evolved and became more of an artistic outlet.
Then, about 5 years ago, I saw what my old friend from the gaming store had been doing.  I bought one of the more popular computer RPG's and was struck how much I liked the skill-based system...and how some of the skills fed on each other, and how the levels worked within each skill...and then after getting curious enough I found my old friend who used to run the gaming store, who played in my game, in the credits as a developer.

I have to admit, all my formerly dead-and-buried feelings of publishing, all the thoughts of the game-as-art, all my happy-crap internally created dynamic about not caring about who used my stuff fulgerated in an instant at the thought of this guy who played my game for a few months making solid money (this game has gone through multiple iterations and has won awards) on my intellectual property.  

I stewed about this for a while.  I think I have a handle on how Ishmayl feels, because when it happens, it is incredibly deflating.  However, not to excuse any of the callow actions on the parts of the Hasbro Wizards or any other dyvors, after a while I realized that he had at least done something with it.  Obviously (and it is hard to take the onus on myself), if it had been up to me, my game and ideas would all still be a back-room phenomenon.  I don't hate him anymore for it, because he at least played in the game, enjoyed it enough to take some ideas, and go from there.  

Now, in the case of an extant company that encourages people to interact online, that openly promotes the exhibition and sharing of intellectual labors, and does so in a setting that will afford them legal protection to abscond with said labors, I have nothing but the greatest comtempt.  Pre-planned intellectual larceny is all it is.  I decided months ago to share and learn here, where divergent opinions where welcome.  I am doubly happy that I did, and will no longer patronize any Hasbro/Wizards product.

Again, I'm a little more sympathetic to WotC. If you encourage people to post ideas, there is inevitably going to be some overlap between their work and stuff you are working on. And when you are the guy with the deep pockets, you start to worry about people suing you. So you want something to protect you against the possibility of being sued over a coincidence. I challenge anyone to come up with a better policy to protect them against spending money defending themselves against baseless lawsuits, but without letting them abscond with your labors.

The upshot is, if you want to post your ideas somewhere and keep the rights, you need to find a forum that doesn't have a policy like that. CBG (and other places) doesn't need that kind of protection, because we don't have an independent publishing arm, and we aren't a fat juicy lawsuit target.

I can't get too upset at WotC for this, but that doesn't mean I'm willing to give them my stuff either.

Quote from: TerrorCakeEverything looks to be in order, here.  No sleazy fine print clause covering Wizards' asses against copyright infringement or the like.  If they are engaging in any nefarious naughtiness, they're as culpable as any sort.

I'm not an expert in this kind of things, but wouldn't the following excerpt from what you quoted already be a big step in that direction?

QuoteViolation of the Code of Conduct rules is grounds for Site account(s) termination. Termination includes you forfeiting all product/content associated with your account(s) and being no longer permitted use of our online services or tools in any way. Wizards of the Coast staff are the final judges of whether a member's behavior qualifies as inappropriate or a disruption.

It pretty much states that WotC doesn't need a reason to terminate your account (the "final judges" bit), and when they do, "all product/content associated with your account(s)" is theirs. In theory, wouldn't that be enough to take anything they want?

Not that it matters, mind you, because of the bits Raelifin quoted. Though I can see why WotC needs to protect itself, it's still pretty nasty they can just take whatever they want.

Túrin

We could always force every member on WOTC boards to just post extremely crappy ideas.

That would be a good idea... or we could at least protect the 4e-users by petitioning against a Campaign Workshop-type forum for the new edition.

Quote from: TerrorCakeIf there are any other de facto contracts lurking around during the signup process, I don't know of them.

There's also the Terms of Use, which you agree to when you sign up and which is thereafter remarkably hard to track down. That's where the whole "non-exclusive right to reprint anything you post without paying or crediting you" stuff is hidden.

EDIT: Oh, I see people have already mentioned that. But I don't think they've mentioned this yet:

D&D Insider is "powered by Gleemax," so those Terms of Use apply to anything you do on D&D Insider. If you create a character with their online character generator, they can reprint it without paying or crediting you. If you create a map with their online map tools, they can reprint it without paying or crediting you. If you run an adventure through their online game table, they can reprint it without paying or crediting you.

So technically, if you use the D&D Insider online tools, you are letting WotC freely reprint any characters, maps, adventures, or worlds you create or post there.

Heh, I forgot about this thread :)  Glad to see you guys are still chatting about these issues.  I've actually been talking some legalese with a few people, and there's a good chance that the CBG will have some Terms of Use written up specifically for it in the extremely near future, and I just want to assure you guys that there will be absolutely nothing in there - on my word - that even remotely claims ownership to anything you guys put on this site.  Once I get the document drafted, I'll probably post it up for us to discuss.  Maybe.  But either way, I won't steal your shit ;)

Quoted from another thread:

Quote from: Knight of RavensAnnwn...is a reference to a part of the Plane of Faerie as it is being created at Dicefreaks.

Hmmm... Ishy creates Shadowfell, WotC creates the Shadowfell; Dicefreaks create a faerie plane, WotC creates the Feywild.

Funny how that works.

Quote from: Epic MeepoQuoted from another thread:

Quote from: Knight of RavensAnnwn...is a reference to a part of the Plane of Faerie as it is being created at Dicefreaks.

Err...the Faerie Project (which I am not a part of personally), is just an attempt to synch yet another aspect of the cosmology of D&D to the standard established by the team behind Gates of Evil. I know you're not detracting from it, EM, but I thought I'd point it out.

And without reading all the way through this thread (and thherefore I'm possibly making a wrong assumption), I'd at least like to say that I've been burgled in the past by certain interests too. Thankfully the result did not please the million as it was butchered into a shadowy semblance of decency. That part at least was worth it.

Ishy, I want this in the terms of use.

 [ic]We, The CBG, so solemnly swear not to steal your shit. Honest. [/ic]

Done!

Honestly? This is why I /never/ post anything mechanical with any sort of backstory attached to it. Granted, I mainly use M&M, and Green Ronin seems like they'd be more likely to hire you than steal from you, but I don't take any chances. When/if I ever do a DnD setting again, NOTHING is going to be mechanical that's my own creation.

Edit: Read the whole thread, and dear lord, there's some shady crap going on. I'd threaten to stop buying WOTC products, but since I did that long ago...

Quote from: EclipseHonestly? This is why I /never/ post anything mechanical with any sort of backstory attached to it. Granted, I mainly use M&M, and Green Ronin seems like they'd be more likely to hire you than steal from you, but I don't take any chances. When/if I ever do a DnD setting again, NOTHING is going to be mechanical that's my own creation.

And despite my experience, I'd rather not personally. Yeah, someone could take what I've built, but if I don't show it at all (and those that know me can speak of how constantly I'm at this sort of work behind the scenes) then I'm the only dubious benficiary. Given that I don't get to play as often as I wish, that's sort of a downer, really. So ultimately I can't help it.

Quote from: Knight of Ravens

Quote from: EclipseHonestly? This is why I /never/ post anything mechanical with any sort of backstory attached to it. Granted, I mainly use M&M, and Green Ronin seems like they'd be more likely to hire you than steal from you, but I don't take any chances. When/if I ever do a DnD setting again, NOTHING is going to be mechanical that's my own creation.

And despite my experience, I'd rather not personally. Yeah, someone could take what I've built, but if I don't show it at all (and those that know me can speak of how constantly I'm at this sort of work behind the scenes) then I'm the only dubious benficiary. Given that I don't get to play as often as I wish, that's sort of a downer, really. So ultimately I can't help it.

If you're going to use mechanical stuff, you gotta protect it.

Here's what you do: Put the complete OGL in your sig.
State what OGL content sources you draw from.
State that none of the above text is OGC unless it is specifically said to be so.
Put everything mechanical in a seperate post and lable that post OGC.
Make sure to stipulate that you do not claim PI to anything that is PI by WOTC, and that you are using the information you post in a fully non-profit capacity.
Don't post over at WOTC.

That should sufficently cover your ass.

EDIT:
[ooc]Disclaimer: This is not meant as accurate legal advice, and this poster is not a legal professional. Seek legal council if any attempt at profit is made, and this user is not responsible if any legal action is taken against you. In fact, this user is fairly drunk right now, so any information here should be reviewed by someone sober at the very least.[/ooc]

:P

Hmmm, an affidavit and a half I see. Thanks.

The last part about posting at WotC need not be said, however.

Quote from: Knight of RavensHmmm, an affidavit and a half I see. Thanks.

The last part about posting at WotC need not be said, however.

I figured it'd be redundant, but also thought I should be thorough.

Hey everybody just hearing about, the copyright issue.  My whole thing is this, if you post anything on wizards site with out a copyright they are free to use it.  For Legendary Arcanum aka The grand realm, I officially own the copy right to everything within so stated by the library of congress ,and the thirty dollars I laid down for those rights, and wizards would indeed have to ask my permission to reprint anything I see fit to allow them to use except their official stuff.  Just because you place something on their site still doesn't give them the right to use it.  But then you should have the official copyright of your work before you place it anywhere.  It only thirty dollars, or a little more, it will come in handy while protecting your intellectual properties.  These intellectual properties could be worth millions of dollars, at some time in the near future.

QuoteKeep on the Shadowfell

A D&D adventure for characters of levels 1-3.

The town of Winterhaven stands watch over a ruined keep that was once a bastion of good in the realm. This keep overlooks the Shadow Rift, a dark scar in the world that was once a gateway to the Shadowfell but has been dormant for many years. Now, an evil cleric of Orcus, Demon Lord of the Undead, seeks to re-open the gate, and the only thing standing in his way is a small yet determined band of heroes from Winterhaven.

Keep on the Shadowfell is an exciting Dungeons & Dragons adventure designed for characters of levels 1-3. It includes three double-sided poster maps suitable for use with D&D miniatures, as well as information on the town of Winterhaven and environs.

This sounds like a adventure my friend is running in his forgotten realms campaign. lol

The one thing I will tell everybody for sure is get it copy written officially. And if wizards think they could do this with out my knowledge, for sure the lawyers would be called out.

Quote from: Let's take a closer look:hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content

You are not forfeiting copyright, merely granting them a terribly (terribly!) permissive license. You still own the copyright-- technically, and all that. They're just licensed to do whatever they want with it. You could sue, but you'd lose.

Best to just avoid their site if you're concerned. :)

Way back when I was in my junior year of high school (I graduated in the year 2000), I managed to get out of a good chunk of classes one day by going to a webdesign workshop.  
One thing that I remember is to be careful of free website providers, like Geocities because they often claim copyright to anything posted by users.

I've pretty much always assumed that this rules is in effect, especially on company message boards.  If I post a monster on WotC's D&D monsters board I expect that they have the right to it for publication in a book or whatever.  I also expect that for the most part, they won't bother because it's crappy fan-made material anyway.

Quote from: WotC policyhereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content

As far as I can tell, there's nothing here inconsistent with the Creative Commons license terms. If for some reason I felt compelled to post stuff at WotC, I'd attach a CC license -- if I have to give that license to WotC, I might as well give it to everyone.

Good plan--except that you can't CC d20 material or anything with WotC product identity (Yuan-Ti, Beholders, etc.).

But yes, you can CC non-d20, non-PI material and then post it there.

Of course, everyone knows that Wizards have never stolen anything.

On an entirely unrelated note, witches stole my socks! (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?39785)

Quote from: RaelifinThis is what really makes me mad about the whole thing. Notice that in the code of conduct it mentions that you must abide by the "Website Terms of Use"? Note that it doesn't link to it! They make you sign a contract saying that you agree to another contract which you don't see!

Quote from: http://ww2.wizards.com/Company/Misc/Index.aspx?doc=websitelegalnoticeTHIS[/url].

I'm no expert at legalese, but the way they use the word "exploit" seems as if they're acknowledging that they're mistreating content-posting members. Am I reading that properly, or is there something I'm misunderstanding?


And if this was just to cover their asses over coincidentally similar material, then they could easily include a clause stating something along the lines of "in agreeing to this contract, you accept that any similarities between official Wizards of the Coast material and any user content is purely coincidental, excepting any further agreement made between Wizards of the Coast and the submitting user." Granted, that could be easily minipulated to have more-or-less the same effect, but I would think that it gives them that much less room for direct theft.

wizards legalise  

QuoteBy posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.

Copywrite infringement info from wikipedia

QuoteTo avoid infringement claims, the right to make use of a copyrighted work can be acquired through an explicit contract or license with the author or publisher, through purchasing a lawful copy (which may provide a number of rights to the purchaser, as under the first-sale doctrine), and for certain types of media, statutory licenses (such as for reproducing and recording musical works under U.S. copyright law). Even without going through such channels to get prior authorization for use of the copyrighted material, doctrines such as fair use or fair dealing may provide potentially broad defenses to infringement claims. The failure of a copyright holder to bring a timely lawsuit against known infringers may later block such a claim by establishing an implied license, as may other acts or omissions that could informally signal consent to use the work

As seen above copywritten work can be aquired from the publisher or author. Now the question is Ishs work copywritten? and does who has the legal write.  

My work is copy written, but it as also a derivative of fanstasy literature.

 

QuoteUntil the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988, the lack of a proper copyright notice would place an otherwise copyrightable work into the public domain, although for works published between January 1, 1978 and February 28, 1989, this could be prevented by registering the work with the Library of Congress within 5 years of publication. After March 1, 1989, an author's copyright in a work begins when it is fixed in a tangible form; neither publication nor registration is required, and a lack of a copyright notice does not place the work into the public domain.

If this is correct, then Ish  work is then copywritten.  The question comes to play, who had created said material first, Ish or Wotc, and then the question is how valid is the Wotc Legliase.  This is where techincal law jargon come in.  To use the copywritten work it must be and explicit contract of use.  I'm not sure the wizard site is saying that.  They are saying that they can use what ever you put down in there Forum,in any fashion, subventing copywritten law.  Yet the copy written law states it must be a explicit contract of license, meaning they must notify you, as well as ask for permission.   Now it a legal matter to figure out what part of the law is important.  The copy write stature as written or Wizards legalise.

Before it was said why bother pushing something like this if you were going to lose.  My rebuttal to that would be if my work it worth a million dollars I would fight for it.  I've had my work around since 1992, even before wizards forums and website, thus I have the copy write, the decisions would be up to the court of law to decide, and I'm sure there would be a chance of winning.  Dungeons and Dragons itself is a derivative of other genres, and how many time has a company put something out  realizing it was out there and not paying or giving tribute to the true creator, of said material, and have it come back to bite them.

Ish should make the move to at least seek consul and perhaps issue a Cease-and-desist action that can be written by a lawyer, in order to find out if that is what happening.  

Ish don't say owe shucks that the way it goes.  If you think wizards is stealing your stuff, then go after them.  

To answer the direct question, yes my work is copyrighted (proper tense?).  For the other stuff, I'll decline to comment at the moment, except to say that things are being worked on.

not a problem. What I forgot to to say is, that even though a majority of our settings are derivative work of other fantasy works, and often work of similar ideas and thoughts, how we come about putting them together is usually far different and should be at least acknowledged, thus the material is unique to who ever is creating it.  Conan, Lord of the Rings, Narnia, all are apart of the fantasy genre using similar themes, but all together different in  construction and creation, as is our settings.

By the way I always get my tense mixed up, lol.  I'm a tense mess lol

Excelsior