I'm sure everyone is aware of the four stat system that I made a link to a while back for my Pokemon SAME system. I've devised an 8 stat variant.
The core mathematical concept of the system is that any point you receive to be placed into any stat, you can put it anywhere you desire without it affecting game balance. One point in Str is the equivalent of putting one point into Tgh or Eva or Acc or whatever. It's all evenly priced.
So let's begin with describing the system.
Every character has 8 Stats they can increase by gaining levels. Four physical, four mental/magical. Four offensive, four defensive. They are:
Strength (Str): Increases the damage you deal with physical attacks.
Toughness (Tgh): Reduces the damage you receive with physical attacks.
Accuracy (Acc): Increases your chance to hit a target with physical.
Evasion (Eva): Decreases the chance of you being hit with physical.
Intuition (Tui): Increases your chance to hit a target with magical.
Wisdom (Wis): Decreases the chance of you being hit with magical.
Intelligence (Int): Increases the damage you deal with magical.
Willpower (Wis): Reduces the damage you receive with magical.
Every character also has 20HP and a Speed Rating to determine the order of action in a round.
When a character has his HP reduced to 0, he is out of the fight. He's not dead, he's just out. So you can remove an opponent using luck spells, and at 0HP, the enemy will fall into an open sewer for the rest of the fight.
A character's Speed Rating (Spd) is Acc + Eva + Tui + Wis
Your chance to hit a target is 1d20 + Acc vs 8 + their Eva, for physical attacks. If you beat their Evasion Score, your attack deals damage. For every 2 additional points you beat the Evasion Score, your attack deals an additional point of damage.
When you are hit by an attack, you don't just take damage. You actively roll a dice to reduce it. In this system you reduce the damage you take from physical attacks by 1d20 + Tgh vs the base damage of their attack + their STR + bonus damage from a high attack roll. If you have an item that reduces type specific damage, you can apply the appropriate resistance.
For magical attacks, replace Str with Int, Tgh with Wil, Acc with Tui, and Eva with Wis.
Adding skills to the system was easy. There's actually no discernible classes, and no skill points, and skills auto-scale with level. So they're only based on your stats. Higher stats = better skills.
(//../../e107_files/public/1190594889_33_FT0_same_8stat_skills.png)
A run down of the skills:
Stealth: Your ability to sneak, hide, and steal. Also useful for juggling.
It's a static number equal to 8 + Acc + Eva
Athletics: How much you work out. This skill is used for swimming, climbing and determining how long you can physically exert yourself. Sometimes you roll a d20 and add your Str and Tgh, and sometimes you just need a high number to be able to do something at all.
Acrobatics: Your ability to jump, skip, dance and balance on surfaces. Often a d20 + Str + Eva against static numbers.
Fortitude: Your ability to resist the affects of liquor, spicy foods, and poison-like effects. Tgh + Wil < 8 you have no resistance, while Tgh + Wil > 23 you're immune to poison-like effects.
Tinker: Your ability to mess with mechanical devices. 1d20 + Acc + Tui to disable locks and shit.
Forgery: Your ability to copy what you see. The quality of your forgeries is 8 + Acc + Int.
Mathematics: Your ability to process complex equations. With enough math, you can calculate and predict the real world, and learn to do just enough to meddle in Fate.
Detection: Your ability to find stuff that most people miss. 1d20 + Tui + Wis vs either Stealth, Forgery or Mimicry, or a set number for hidden objects.
Mimicry: Your ability to act like someone else. Your acting ability is 8 + Tui + Eva. Also enables you to mime the actions, or even outright do what someone just did via FF's Mime move with enough points. Heck, with enough points you'll even be able to do it better.
Feng Shui: Your ability to move and arrange furniture. :-p
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Also, just like Pokemon SAME, I'm going with quest based level ups. On your way to fight Volvagia, you will aquire the Megaton Hammer. After playing Gopher Popping with Volvagia, you will become tougher and get a shiny medal, as well as move the plot on.
Level - Benefit
Lvl 1 +3 to any stats
Lvl 2 +3 to any stats
Lvl 3 +3 to any stats
Lvl 4 +1 to all stats
Lvl 5 +3 to any stats
Lvl 6 +3 to any stats
Lvl 7 +3 to any stats
Lvl 8 +1 to all stats
Lvl 9 +3 to any stats
Lvl10 +3 to any stats
Lvl11 +1 to all stats
Lvl12 +3 to any stats
Lvl13 +3 to any stats
Lvl14 +1 to all stats
Lvl15 +3 to any stats
Lvl16 +3 to any stats
Lvl17 +1 to all stats
Lvl18 +3 to any stats
Lvl19 +3 to any stats
Lvl20 +1 to all stats
Level benefits: The three points you get at 14 of the levels can be place in any of the stats in any amount (max 3). However, the highest stats may not be more than 8 points greater than the lowest, and no other stat may be more than 6 points greater than the lowest.
Interesting. I'd like to see a system using these stats, which are very similar to yours:
Strength
Dexterity: Coordination
Agility: Speed/Reflexes
Constitution
Intelligence
Wisdom: Mental Resilience
Perception: Senses
Charisma: Mental Strength
The one problem I discovered was making a non-skill use for perception.
I'm not sure about your system, as there is a lot to absorb at once. I'll see if I can digest it all.
Is your system mathematically balanced? As in, is having 10 points in Strength is just as good as having 5 points in Constitution and 5 points in Perception?
Do save or dies exist in your game?
I have to day it's elegant. However, there are some skills there that are missing.
Quote from: Stargate525I have to day it's elegant. However, there are some skills there that are missing.
Maybe, or they've been collapsed into another. Sound them off and I'll explain where they are.
Racial Traits for an upcoming game:
Immortals:
High Elves - Eternal spirits of the Forest given a humanoid form of flesh and blood. Lithe and agile, these creatures value magic, nature and art in all their forms.
Stats: 3 bonus points to place in Acc, Eva, Wis or Tui. -3 to Tgh.
Dark Elves - The cursed children of dark elves born on moonless nights. Lithe and agile, they are the dark reflections of High Elves valuing magic, battle and subterfuge in all their forms.
Stats: +3 Str, 3 bonus points to place in Acc, Eva, Int and Wil. -3 to Tgh, -3 Wis.
Half-fiends - Dark creaures often born of tainted mortals. Potent sorcerers and vicious warriors, but often runty and frail.
Stats: +3 Acc and +3 Int, -3 Tgh and -3 Wis.
Steeling - A new soul infused into a collection of metal objects. Often a suit of armor, but sometimes a pile of junk is accidently animated.
Stats: +2 Tgh, and +2 Wil. - 2 Eva and -2 Wis
Junk Stats: -1 to all physical stats, +1 to all mental stats.
Armor Stats: No additional modifiers.
Clockwork Automaton Stats: +1 to all physical stats, -1 to all mental stats.
Mortals:
Humans - What you are in the real world. You can be a cooler one in the game.
Goblins - Small feral humanoid. As a player, you are hardier and more intelligent than others of your kin.
Stas: -3 Str, -3 Tgh, -3 Wil. +3 Acc, +3 Eva, +3 Tui.
Hobgoblins - A large tan skinned humanoid. Slightly smaller than a human, but more agile and nimble.
Stats: -1 Str and -2 Tgh. 3 bonus points to place in Acc, Eva and Wis.
Necropolitan - A necromantic creation with the purpose of feeding vampires more blood than a human is capable of. Pale and ugly, and weak willed.
Stats: +3 Tgh, -3 Wil
RP rule: Necropolitans can never say the word "no" or any of its homonyms. "Dead people can't say no!"
perception skills (spot, listen, search), for one.
Quote from: Stargate525perception skills (spot, listen, search), for one.
Tomato, tomahto. I called it Detection.
Attacks, Equipment and Vanity
A small yet noticeable problem with aw few RPGs is the apparent broken mechanics regarding item creation. Especially when it comes to Magic Item Creation(tm). A decent example is the D&D3.x version of it. You take a portion of your wealth, a portion of the points you need to become more powerful, add them together, sprinkle some downtime, and POOFshiftone you have a more magical book than before. While this makes sense from a flavour stand point, it's complete crap from a mechanics stand point. Because of the way the game works, loosing any XP means you're behind on the power scale significantly.
Another problem comes from where the game assumes certain equipment dependent characters must have a certain level of equipment to work properly, but then don't get the GP or the random treasure results to pull it off, and they can't trade in the old stuff at full price to try to get close. They can't request a friendly item crafting PC ally to help, 'cause he need the XP and downtime to make his Bugg's Rope of Rope Trick. He can't get the basic buff spells from priest casters cause they need those slots for more important buffs, debuffs and rebuffs, as well as their own emergency buffs of awesome sauce.
Enough ranting. In this system, equipment are part of the character's stat block. When a character gains a level, he learns a new move, and it can be for any reason the PC desires. Characters find treasure to become more powerful after the boss fight, or they go home and finish their secret project.
Ex1: Drizzt and Conan just stabinated a white dragon. Drizzt levels up and gains a new move called Frost Blade allowing him to deal cold damage with his weapon strike.
Conan also gains a level and learns Overheat, allowing him to raise his Atk by setting himself on fire.
Ex2: Batman just finished the "WTF is The Joker up to Quest" and gains a level. His new move is Batwing Assault, 'cause he's been retrofitting an Avero Arrow for the past two months, and the PC wants the move now.
Quote from: Rocket MisfireAttacks, Equipment and Vanity
A small yet noticeable problem with aw few RPGs is the apparent broken mechanics regarding item creation. Especially when it comes to Magic Item Creation(tm). A decent example is the D&D3.x version of it. You take a portion of your wealth, a portion of the points you need to become more powerful, add them together, sprinkle some downtime, and POOFshiftone you have a more magical book than before. While this makes sense from a flavour stand point, it's complete crap from a mechanics stand point. Because of the way the game works, loosing any XP means you're behind on the power scale significantly.
Another problem comes from where the game assumes certain equipment dependent characters must have a certain level of equipment to work properly, but then don't get the GP or the random treasure results to pull it off, and they can't trade in the old stuff at full price to try to get close. They can't request a friendly item crafting PC ally to help, 'cause he need the XP and downtime to make his Bugg's Rope of Rope Trick. He can't get the basic buff spells from priest casters cause they need those slots for more important buffs, debuffs and rebuffs, as well as their own emergency buffs of awesome sauce.
Enough ranting. In this system, equipment are part of the character's stat block. When a character gains a level, he learns a new move, and it can be for any reason the PC desires. Characters find treasure to become more powerful after the boss fight, or they go home and finish their secret project.
Ex1: Drizzt and Conan just stabinated a white dragon. Drizzt levels up and gains a new move called Frost Blade allowing him to deal cold damage with his weapon strike.
Conan also gains a level and learns Overheat, allowing him to raise his Atk by setting himself on fire.
Ex2: Batman just finished the "WTF is The Joker up to Quest" and gains a level. His new move is Batwing Assault, 'cause he's been retrofitting an Avero Arrow for the past two months, and the PC wants the move now.
A very interesting concept. However, while removing some problems of the standard systems, it creates a few of its own. For example, you cannot take away an "item" given to a character because it's not the item but rather the character's ability. It also destroys suspension of disbelieve in certain situations. Now, batman has refitted his glider, but it gets destroyed in a battle with Mr. Freeze. Now, as Batman apparently has not lost the trait or ability - what happens? Does a new glider magically materialize in the BatCave? Or does it boil down to the "you must be that high to hit the orc" problem that the DM can arbitrarily negate a player's hard earned abilities nillywilly?
Quote from: Ra-TielQuote from: Rocket MisfireAttacks, Equipment and Vanity
snip
A very interesting concept. However, while removing some problems of the standard systems, it creates a few of its own. For example, you cannot take away an "item" given to a character because it's not the item but rather the character's ability. It also destroys suspension of disbelieve in certain situations. Now, batman has refitted his glider, but it gets destroyed in a battle with Mr. Freeze. Now, as Batman apparently has not lost the trait or ability - what happens? Does a new glider magically materialize in the BatCave? Or does it boil down to the "you must be that high to hit the orc" problem that the DM can arbitrarily negate a player's hard earned abilities nillywilly?
Item/abilities can be negated by the abilities of other creatures, such as causing the Silence status condition to block magic actions, or using Paralyze to remove a physical actions. An idea I've been considering is the concept of ability chains. Although there are ways to block an entire portions of a character's abilities, it is suggested that when mooks use anti-actions they can't completely nerf a character's power, only small portions of it.
When a character learns a new ability, it's either based off another earlier version, or new move set that starts a new chain. Anti-actions such as Disarm basically shut down a chain of abilities. There's always a method of restoring the chain and most characters are encouraged to have multiple chains. For instance, Batman has the Bat-jutsu, Bat-vehicle, Bat-belt and Bat-cape action chains, but Disarm can only remove one at a time, and it's not guaranteed to succeed.
So if you think it matters, you can have a large portion of abilities have an integral item that is necessary to perform a set of actions. Fire Wands for throw Fireballs, Shinning Hammers to smite undead, Shields to Block and Defend, Hood of the Nin to throw stars, Flag of the Jolly Roger to cause Fear. And then using the Disarm action allows you to shut down one chain of actions. If it matters to you.
Action - Disarm: No damage. No related chain. Upon selecting, decide weather it is a mechanical attack, a magical attack or a mental attack.
Roll for Accuracy as normal. If the attack hits, there is a 1 in 6 chance of the target losing a Chain of Abilities that relies on a piece of equipment for the rest of the fight.
Retrieve Weapon: No Damage. No related chain. Upon selecting, decide weather it is a mechanical action or a magical action.
At the beginning of your next turn, you regain access to a chain of abilities that was disabled based apon you losing an item earlier in the fight.
Flying Excalibur: Power 23 physical close-range attack. Adamantium Type.
You loose access to the Excalibur Chain, and you cannot use the Cleave ability.
Retrieve Excalibur: Power 23 physical melee attack. Adamantium Type.
Your target must have been subject to the most recent Flying Excalibur attack for you to use this. You regain access to the Excalibur Chain of actions. If your target has been removed from the fight with this attack, you may use the Cleave ability with an Excalibur Weapon Strike.
Designing Attacks and Actions
The most important aspect of games that involve combat is the results of actions designed to resolved the effects of face stabbing. While I've already mentioned the modifiers and results of attacks, I haven't given a baseline to compare damage. And that's because there isn't one. This system has a huge variance in the potential damage a character can inflict, and because of the Soak roll, increasing the damage of the attacks not only increases the likelihood of an attack reducing a target's HP, but also the maximum amount of HP that can be removed by the attack. It is possible to have attacks that can deal anywhere from 1 HP to all HP; there's a possibility to have attacks occasionally 1-hit-KO.
The baseline I use for damage is 17 for important characters and 14 for mooks. I play tested this. Attacks on average took 3 hits to remove a mook, but the chance of 1-hit-KOs kept the PCs cautious and encouraged them to have points in defensive stats, especially for when a boss monster showed up.
But wherever you set the bar for damage, a good set of guidelines for making more varying attacks is in order.
More/Less Damage, Less/More Accuracy - Trade on a 2 for 1 basis.
For every increase in damage, decrease accuracy by 2.
Or for every decrease in damage, increase the accuracy by 2
High Damage, No-Crit - Increase the attack's damage by 5. The attack doesn't gain any extra damage from the Accuracy Roll exceeding the Evasion Score.
Low Damage, High-Crit - Decrease the attacks damage by 5. The attack gains an extra point of damage for every point the Accuracy Roll exceeds the Evasion Score after the first.
More Targets - For each maximum target possible, reduce the attack's damage by 1. To keep gameplay fast only one Accuracy Roll is made. Note that attacks that only affect one target don't loose 1 point of damage, because it's not multi-targeting.
If the attack is to affect every thing in an area, only reduce the damage by 7.
If the attack is to affect every enemy in an area, only reduce the damage by 10.
Auto-hit - Reduce the attack's damage by 4. The attack still does damage, even if the Accuracy Roll is lower than the Evasion Score.
Piercing - Reduce the attack's damage by 4. The attack will reduce the target's HP by 1, even if the Soak Roll is higher than the total Damage.
A more in depth look a skills.
A skill has two stats that powers it.
Each stat powers 3 skills, with the exception of Toughness and Willpower, which only affect 2.
The highest stat can be no more than 8 higher than the lowest, and any other may not be more than 6 higher than the lowest.
With a base 6 added to all stats, and 42 points to go anywhere, each stats will have a value anywhere from 0 to 18, with proper allocation. An 18 means you have 10s everywhere else with 2 extra points.
18,12,10,10 10,10,10,10
The highest you can get a pair of stats is 17 and 15, with the lowest stat at 9, but not enough points to make 10 the lowest and get a higher pair. At least two stats will be at 9.
17,15,10,10 10,10, 9, 9
If you allocate your points evenly you get 11 everywhere with 2 extra points. Meaning you'll get 22s in most of your skills.
12,12,11,11 11,11,11,11
If you leave one stat bear minimum (6), the highest stat you can get is 14.
14,12,12,12 12,12,10, 6
Therefore, the highest you can get a skill is 32, from a 2-stat specialist. The others will be between 28 and 18, and very likely to be the lower end.
The one stat specialist will have one skill at 30, then 28s, and the rest most likely 20, but a top of 22.
The evenist will have 22s all over, with a few either 23 or 24.
The short end specialist will have a maximum skill level of 28, and a minimum of 16.
So, at which point does a stat become superhuman? At which level does a skill become useful? Incredible? Godly? Ridiculous, if ever?
The Perks of Ultimate Skill and Utra-Stat
The maximum number a stat can have is 18. I feel really good about this number. As a reward for characters that put all of their points into one stat like this, I'm giving out a godly ability for having an 18 in a stat.
If you have an 18 Str, all of your physical attacks will remove a minimum of 1 HP, even if the defender's soak roll exceeds the attack's damage. If the physical attack is a piercing attack, the minimum HP removed is 2.
An 18 Int grants the same benefit, but for magical attacks.
If you have an 18 Acc, all of your physical attacks gain the auto-hit modifier, while previous auto-hit attacks known gain +4 damage.
An 18 Tui grants the same benefit, but for magical attacks.
If you have an 18 Eva, all physical attacks that affect you do not gain extra damage from a high Accuracy Roll. The attack deals minimum damage. Additionally, if you are subject to an auto-hit attack, the attack still misses if the Accuracy Roll is lower than your Evasion Score.
An 18 Wis grants the same benefit, but for magical attacks.
If you have an 18 Tgh or Wil, for every round that you have 0 HP you have a 1 in 6 chance of arbitrarily having 1 HP at the beginning of your turn.
So, having an 18 in a stat is really cool for your character.
But having an 18 in a stat means you can't have a 32 in a skill, which should be a really big thing. And we shall make it a big deal.
So, having 2 points in a skill will grant usage of it. and every three additional points you have will grant you a better skill use action. Let's use Feng Shui as an example: [table=Skill: Feng Shui][tr][td]Ranks[/td][td]Benfit[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2[/td][td]You learn the action "Move" which allows you to move from one row to another.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]5[/td][td]You can chop wood with your hand. You also learn the action "Bust In" which may be used to destroy simple barriers like wooden doors and chicken wire fences.
You learn the action "Barrier" that you can use to create a simple obstacle.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]8[/td][td]Your Accuracy Roll penalty for targeting characters in other rows with a melee or reach attack is reduced by 1 for each row difference. The Accuracy Roll penalty for targeting you with a melee or reach attack is increased by 1 for each row difference.
You learn the "Block Move" ability, which can stop opponents from using the "Move" action.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]11[/td][td]You learn the action "Escape", which allows you to remove a grounded condition from yourself.
Obstacles created by your "Barrier" action count as medium obstacles.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]14[/td][td]You learn the action "Move Other", which you may use to change any character's position by one row.
As a free action on your turn, you can use the action "Move".
Your "Bust In" action is upgraded to "improved Bust In", allowing you to destroy or bypass medium obstacles.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]17[/td][td]You learn the ability "Momentum Attacks" with may allow you to use the "Move Other" action in addition any attack action you make.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]20[/td][td]Obstacles created by your "Barrier" action count as strong obstacles.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]23[/td][td]Your "Block Move" upgrades to the "Improved Block Move" ability, which may also stop you're opponents from using the "Move Other" action.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]26[/td][td]All of your melee and reach attacks are treated as close-range attacks.
You learn the action "Break Thru", which allows you to smash you-sized holes into strong barriers like brick walls and break down iron doors.
Obstacles you create with your "Barrier" action count as incredible obstacles.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]29[/td][td]You learn the action "No Wall" where you remove or bypass, depending apon it's nature and composition, any obstacle or barrier.
You are immune to the grounded conditions.[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]32[/td][td]Opponents you target do not gain the benefit of another's Cover or M-Cover ability, but the user of Cover or M-Cover still takes damage if his ability is successfully used.
The Accuracy Roll penalty for targeting you with a melee or reach attack is increased by an additional 1 (+2 total) for each row difference.[/td][/tr][/table]