So I was struck by a thunderbolt idea while I was making coffee at Barnes and Noble Cafe' I'm thinking about taking themes from WW II (such as qualities of the different faction) and combining them with High Fantasy
For example: The Elves were hit the hardest during the last war, after years of living in squalor, the proud elves have risen again, bent on the destruction of all the lesser races. The elves were the first of the gods' creations to walk the land, and they will be the last. The Elves are a powerful magical juggernaut, having already struck out against the neighboring Half-Elves to scrub away all remnants of the bastard off shoot.
you like that? Nazi Elves! what's not to love? Instead of airplanes they ride aerial creatures (giant eagles, owls, hippogriffs etc.) instead of tanks they ride giant fire breathing lizards. Let me know if I have a good setting here.
I know that Turtledove wrote a fantasy story based on WW II but I have yet to read it (I hope to read it soon)
I have no idea how the factions are going to be, and be forewarned that the leaders of the generals and kings of these factions may be similar to their real world counterparts, don't expect to see Adolf Shimmerleaf.
I think it'd be a very interesting setting if you really gave it the feel of WWII but kept it medieval fantasy. When I say that, I mean you should have all of the elements of the war -- explosions, trenches, even "submarines" (sea-serpents?) -- and then go fantasy. I think this setting has the potential to be pretty cool, but I think it's also something that would first have to be over the top, then brought back down to a realistic point.
Very hard to say.
GURPS WWII: Weird War Two has some ideas on this.
Plus the entire GURPS line is extremely conductive to such cross-genre games...
Check out Fiendspawn, if you ever get a chance. It's much closer to Eberron-esque fantasy then it is to "high" fantasy, but the WW2 theme in it still might be interesting.
well the thoughts that I had were about air forces, The Elves may fly on giant eagles launching enchanted arrows, then when I thought about the b-52, I came up with the idea of the Sky Chariot, the chariot is the size of a boat that allows for 2-6 people to sit comfortably and to operate some of the weaponry aboard. It's enchanted to be buoyant and pulled by flying creatures that are tethered to it.
I can see some big ocean battles with giant ships covered in armored plating.
A thought on factions:
The Elves: devastated by the last war, they have rallied around the idea of destroying, once and for all, the scourge of the lesser races. In the eyes of the Elves they are the perfect race and will not suffer the weak to live.
The Dwarves: They are a cold and dour people, who at one time had been allied with the elves, but now work together to put a stop to their Alliance. The Dwarven campaigns are some of the deadliest, bitter, and most terrible of aspects of the war.
Half-Elves: Having put a stop to the Elves before, the Half-Elves feel themselves being crushed under the Elven juggernaut. They are the Elves' first target because of their ancestry, by the midpoint of the war half of the Half-elven kingdom is destroyed and occupied until the Humans arrived to help.
Humans: At first, the Humans desired neutrality, hoping to avoid any blood shed similar to the last war. However, after a treacherous attack by the Orc Empire, the Humans have rallied and pushed to liberate the Half-Elves and to return vengeance for the thousands of lives lost at the Orc attack.
Orcs: After centuries of isolationism, the Orc Empire longed to expand, seeing an opportunity in the Humans, the mighty Orc warriors staged what was meant to be a coup de grace against he slumbering nation. Instead, their attack, while successful, rallied the humans making them a stronger foe then they could ever imagine.
Gnomes: Gnomes had always been an artistic race that have been inventing and innovating for centuries. When Garick Redtree came to power he established a fascist regime of nationalism, military power, and strict censorship of any opponents.
Quote from: GnomemasterI know that Turtledove wrote a fantasy story based on WW II...
And don't forget J.K. Rowling. The last three Harry Potter novels are supposedly based on themes from WW II.
true, this is a more direct representation of a world at war. I thought about the way adventures would probably run, players might be spies, or they might be soldiers, or freelancers.
I also had another idea for a unit: Soldiers who specialize in deep strikes may use featherfall to leap out of airships, they could also use invisibility on themselves to make it easier for them to sneak on through enemy lines.
Quote from: GnomemasterI thought about the way adventures would probably run, players might be spies, or they might be soldiers, or freelancers.
Don't forget archaeologists. As in: Indiana Jones stopping the Nazis from getting their hands on the Holy Grail. After lots of fight scenes, dungeon-delving, and trap-finding, no less).
Incidentally, are you thinking of having a monolithic evil like the Nazis? Or is your setting going to be more like the First World War where everyone was fighting but there were few clear-cut villains.
definitely the latter, In my opinion, monolithic evil is often too simple, and for a campaign setting like this i don't want the game to run like this:
Players: Can we be elves?
DM: No, elves are all evil in this world, you can only be human, dwarven, or half-elf.
Players: Awww... No Legolas...
To me, that's too rigid. Plus, why go to all the trouble of thinking so much about elves only to say "No elf players unless you are evil"
To me, each faction is working to further it's own goals which they see as good. Each faction wants to win the war regardless the costs, that's why Humans put every man and woman they can into the trenches, that's why the Elves made a pact with the devil, that's why Gnomes create massive war engines regardless of the costs.
So as I thought about it, I wondered, what kinds of advantages and disadvantages would each army have over the other? this is what I got:
Humans: Pro: Humans breed quickly and every citizen is required to serve 5 years in the military. Therefore, the Humans Army is vast.
Con: Humans tend to be generalized warriors, there are very few elites in their army.
Elves: Pro: They made a deal with Asmodeus, he would bolster their ranks with demonspawn, and they would dedicate their kills to the devil prince.
Con: Elves have a small army that is magically strong but physically weak. They do not breed nearly as quickly as humans.
Quote from: Epic MeepoIncidentally, are you thinking of having a monolithic evil like the Nazis? Or is your setting going to be more like the First World War where everyone was fighting but there were few clear-cut villains.
No clear cut villains?
Let's add things up shall we?
- Germany strikes first against France through the Schlieffen plan.
- Germany attacks Russia.
- Treaty of Brest-Litovsk; harsh treaty by the Germans annexing large parts of Russia. Ridiculous, accepted because Lenin has little choice in the matter.
- As the Allies push back on the Western Front, the Germans deliberately ruin industry within occupied areas out of spite.
- The Allies do not invade Germany, and instead call for a cease-fire.
- Despite the precedent of Brest-Litovsk, the Allies end up with a treaty that, while far from perfect, was not the harsh control-measure that the Germans would have demanded had they one. (Brest-Litovsk as a precedent.)
I am aware the war would have probably broken out even without the Central Powers striking first, but we can't judge on what "might have happened", only what actually did.
Okay, its not so clear cut as in the Second World War, but I think it was clear who was the aggressors here.
Quote from: JharvisI think it'd be a very interesting setting if you really gave it the feel of WWII but kept it medieval fantasy. When I say that, I mean you should have all of the elements of the war -- explosions, trenches, even "submarines" (sea-serpents?) -- and then go fantasy. I think this setting has the potential to be pretty cool, but I think it's also something that would first have to be over the top, then brought back down to a realistic point.
Trench warfare sort of ended with the First World War. By the time of the Second World War, mobile, hard-hitting forces, last seen as cavalry, had made a comeback in the form of tanks. German Blitzkrieg let them use tanks to break stalemates in a way that couldn't be done in WWI.
But more on-topic:
Sounds good. An idea that comes to mind is the idea of a "glorious victory". In D&D, combat doesn't tend to be very grim, on the grounds that its not real. If you played up the glory of the war in propaganda, then made it quite dark at the front lines, you'd get the feel of that kind of idea, although that would be WWI than II.
Bombing could be fun, going for the more WWII angle.
Quote from: Zafuel- Despite the precedent of Brest-Litovsk, the Allies end up with a treaty that, while far from perfect, was not the harsh control-measure that the Germans would have demanded had they one. (Brest-Litovsk as a precedent.)
Still, that is the most generous description of the Treaty of Versailles I have ever heard.
Just to chime in: why not mix it up a little with Shadowrun? Perhaps in the middle of the war some side or another accidentally releases a biological weapon that has unforseen consequences. Instead of killing the enemy (or one's own populace, depending on the weather), those infected go through a horrible transformation and becoming what we know as elves and halflings.
A few weeks later, the virus mutates and starts spreading uncontrolled through all continents, infecting many while leaving others untouched. This creates dwarves and half-orcs.
Never having been confronted with such a horrible situation, the war parties call for a cease-fire. Now, several years after the war, new nations based on races instead of nationality start to form. And with some new races, old ideaologies seem to be very popular...
Quote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: Zafuel- Despite the precedent of Brest-Litovsk, the Allies end up with a treaty that, while far from perfect, was not the harsh control-measure that the Germans would have demanded had they one. (Brest-Litovsk as a precedent.)
Still, that is the most generous description of the Treaty of Versailles I have ever heard.
Agreed. The Treaty of Versailles was a pretty harsh control-measure if you ask me. Not Brest-Litovsk harsh, but still fairly harsh.
People like to argue that Germany was the bad guy in WWI just because Germany really
was the bad guy in WWII. But in the First World War, pretty much everyone was to blame and pretty much everyone did nasty stuff to their enemies. Everyone was too proud to back down at first and too bitter not to grind the other guy into the dirt later on.
If there were any real villains in WWI, it was The Black Hand, the secret society of assassins who decided they would try to create a Slavic state by systematically murdering aristocrats in Austria-Hungary. By assassinating Archduke Ferdinand, they provoked the whole Great War. Germany would never have been in a position to be an aggressor if not for their actions.
Incidentally, any D&D campaign based on WWII might want to also draw upon WWI, because if ever there was a real-world organization that would make a perfect D&D villain, it was The Black Hand. They were called The Black Hand, they were a secret society, their self-proclaimed objective was widespread assassination, and their symbol was a skull and crossbones. What more do you need in a D&D villain?
Quote from: Epic MeepoQuote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: Zafuel- Despite the precedent of Brest-Litovsk, the Allies end up with a treaty that, while far from perfect, was not the harsh control-measure that the Germans would have demanded had they one. (Brest-Litovsk as a precedent.)
Still, that is the most generous description of the Treaty of Versailles I have ever heard.
Agreed. The Treaty of Versailles was a pretty harsh control-measure if you ask me. Not Brest-Litovsk harsh, but still fairly harsh.
True enough. I wasn't meaning that Germany was "evil", but the Central Powers
did strike first. And yes, Versailles was harsh, and poorly written, but with Brest-Litovsk as a precedent...
Quote from: Elven DoritosPeople like to argue that Germany was the bad guy in WWI just because Germany really was the bad guy in WWII. But in the First World War, pretty much everyone was to blame and pretty much everyone did nasty stuff to their enemies. Everyone was too proud to back down at first and too bitter not to grind the other guy into the dirt later on.
are[/i] they going to get it right?
Anyway, I can't help thinking that WWI would make for a better campaign than WWII. Trench warfare, mass slaughter, and no real right and wrong would allow for a lot of open-ended -ness and unique fights. If you went with the whole "incompetent buffon" general myth, it could make for some great adventuring moments. Magical artilery, etc
Of course, it should also be pointed out that WWII loses a lot of moral clarity on the eastern front. :)
The alliance with Stalin was entirely one of convenience and mutual benefit, rather than any sort of shared democratic values between him and the US, UK, France, etc.
Good arguments. I think the most important thing to remember is that this isn't
Quote from: GnomemasterGood arguments. I think the most important thing to remember is that this isn't
...?
Quote from: sparkletwistOf course, it should also be pointed out that WWII loses a lot of moral clarity on the eastern front. :)
The alliance with Stalin was entirely one of convenience and mutual benefit, rather than any sort of shared democratic values between him and the US, UK, France, etc.
Ironically, so was the one between him and Hitler. The Soviet Union seem to have trouble finding bona fide allies, don't they?
These are some really good arguments, I guess the most important thing to remember is that it isn't exactly WW II. I say that the Elves are a lot like the Nazis in that they are driven to racially cleanse the world. The reason I don't really want clear cut villains is so that players can choose to be heroes for any side. In the game, each faction has a little bit of moral ambiguity, I want it so that anyone can say "The Elves are evil, they work with Devils!" well, you could say that about the gnomes, dwarves, humans or orcs
The Alliance
Made up of the Elven Kingdom of Throribas, the Gnome Totalitarian State of Steamblack, and the Orc Empire of Brafar, the Alliance is a loose grouping of armies that work together to take back the world.
Elves: Beren Miriel (Male High Elf Fighter 5/Cleric 6/Disciple of Mephistopheles 3) was a veteran of one of the many wars that left the once proud Throribas in disarray. When he was discharged from the military he found ancestral land now being occupied by the bastard race of the half-elves in the west and the dwarves in the east. After years of bloodshed the Elves struggled to make ends meet.
Miriel spoke out and collected followers, the elven people were drawn to his promises after years of squalor. The elves were drawn to Miriel's doctrine of racial superiority, that the elves were the perfect race and should never suffer to bow and scrape to anyone, least of all the lesser races.
After years of fighting against superior numbers, Miriel made a pact with Mephistopheles, a powerful devil prince, through a strict pact said to be hundreds of pages long, Mephistopheles agreed to aid the elves with legions of devils. No one knows what price Miriel paid for the help, however to some, anyone who would traffic with dark powers is an evil force that must be stopped.
Gnomes: Lead by General Daezrig (Male Gnome Artificer 19), the armies of Hikaltur are one of the most technologically advanced. They are armed with firearms and smoke belching machinery. The ruthless gnome legions delight in greasing their metal creations with the blood of the enemy.
The Gnomes are the most technologically advanced race in Lethacios; they use pistols, rifles, and even some cannons. The Gnomes make use of metal wagons pulled by iron golems with cannons jutting from all sides. Gnomes however have a weak air force and small numbers.
Daezrig is both an engineering and military genius, however he is constantly paranoid, looking for rivals wherever they poke their heads, he leads the people with fear and propaganda. His enforcers are known as the Black Cloaks, skilled mages and assassins who are on the lookout for anarchists and enemies of the state.
Right now I am working on the Gnomes and Elves, but I need some suggestions on the other core races, what makes them unique? any suggestions?
I like the idea very much. You seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:
Tanks - in Harry Turtledove, tanks were huge creatures called Behemoths that were covered with armor and mounted with what amounted to huge magic wands. Something similar could work here, or as an alternate version, those same huge creatures could be pulling steel-plated wagons mounted with ballistas enchanted to have explosive heads.
Submarines: Again, in Turtledove they were creatures call leviathans ridden by men. You could do something similar, or go a bit more odd and have them be a species of artificially bred fish that are full of air pockets and hollow parts allowing men to ride inside of them, and are capable of shooting out high velocity spines - which can be enchanted to explode. In addition, floatable explosives could be slipped out of their gills as reverse depth charges.
Air: Here, the sky is literally the limit. Turtledove used dragons, and that is always a possibility. Other options include people riding gryphons armed with rapid crossbows while the gryphon holds bombs in its claws, flat out airships a la Eberron, or even more extreme examples, like constructs conjured up by magic or, for the elves, flying demons. (Which does raise a question - if the elves are using devils to fight their war, would/will one of the members of an opposite side petition for angelic aid?)
Artillery: The best way I see to handle this would be huge magic wands or spells that can be cast from a vast distance that cause wide area devastation.
Machine Guns: If you're using DnD, which it looks like you are, I'd recommend Machine Guns simply being high level wands of magic missile, since the ability to unerringly strike 5 people a round is a good enough approximation. Rapid fire crossbows that have area attacks also work well - in MnM, there is a 'shapeable' area that covers 5 adjacent squares per rank, which I think works very well for machine guns.
Quote from: EclipseYou seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:
Again, not to derail a thread, but I've heard various debates about what level of occultism Hitler himself was actually interested in. While it's true that he transformed the Thule Society into the Nazi party, he was never a Thule himself; he went to great lengths in later years to weed out as many of the occult-heavy advisers as practical, and the legacy of Nazi mysticism is more closely attributed to the likes of Himmler, Hess, Rosenburg, and a number of junior officers and supporters.
I haven't done
that much research though, so I could entirely be wrong.
Quote from: Elven DoritosQuote from: EclipseYou seem to have a good start on this, especially with the pact with Mephistopheles giving them devil soldiers - a great analogy for Hitler's love of strange super-science and occultism. Some ideas to think about:
Again, not to derail a thread, but I've heard various debates about what level of occultism Hitler himself was actually interested in. While it's true that he transformed the Thule Society into the Nazi party, he was never a Thule himself; he went to great lengths in later years to weed out as many of the occult-heavy advisers as practical, and the legacy of Nazi mysticism is more closely attributed to the likes of Himmler, Hess, Rosenburg, and a number of junior officers and supporters.
I haven't done that much research though, so I could entirely be wrong.
I'm honestly not that sure, either, but for fictional purposes, making Hitler an occultist - especially for fantasy purposes - allows for some interesting plotlines.
Because everythings better with Hitler!
...or maybe not.
Quote from: Eclipse[...] Artillery: The best way I see to handle this would be huge magic wands or spells that can be cast from a vast distance that cause wide area devastation. [...]
While I agree with your suggestion regarding machine guns, I must object here. One of the signature abilities of artillery is its indirect firing of the ammunition, being able to shoot
over obstacles like mountains, forests, or walls. Spells and magic items usually are direct fire, however, thus removing this properties.
Heroes of Battle, IIRC, had magic catapult and ballista ammunitions that released various magic effect on impact. I think this would be the most accurate approximation of "modern" artillery in DnD.
Ahh, I should have been clearer. I'm still thinking in Harry Turtledove terms, where the spells could be cast from a great distance away and without regard for obstacles - but you're right, in a fantasy setting, Catapults make the most sense. I'd enchant them to increase their range significantly, since WWII's artillery was often a fair distance away from the front line.
If you want to go the Turtledove route, however, you can add in the horror that these spells were often powered by mass human sacrifice, which provides an approximation for the Holocaust if the elves use a certain ethic group for the sacrifice.
If you want to have fun with subraces, the elves that are sacrificed could be the drow, which aren't the crazy dominatrix based society in normal DnD, but just happen to be dark-skinned elves with some odd innate magic - which for a race like elves that is magically based, would make sense for an ethnic distinction.
Plus, the idea of elves slaughtering drow by the thousands is...well, intriuging to say the least. The other option would be a different species that lived in elven lands, or something as simple as elves that happen to have slightly different physical features (longer ears, darker hair) and worship a different god, or even an older faith of the same god - though that is a bit too blunt, IMO.
Well, as far as the holocaust goes, I figured that I may move away from that, it just feels too serious to make for a fun game, plus it would tip the scales of this whole "Everyone is a little evil" by making the elves really evil. There is, however, one thing to point out,that part of the pact made with Mephistopheles was that the devils and elves would kill in his name, effectively creating a combat based sacrifice. I'm pretty sure that the rules for sacrifice require a coup de grace and such, but I decided that Mephistopheles isn't that picky.
To answer the DnD question, I plan on creating my own game system which is loosely based on the Warcraft III system, where a hero has a few spells and every level he increases the effectiveness of that spell.
Races of War World
Elves
'Suffer not the weak races to live.'
-Sir Garick Brighthelm, Colonel of the Throribas 234rd
An ancient and beautiful race, the elves were the first race created by the gods (or so they say), their history is one rife with civil wars and fighting. During the Last Great War the elves suffered the most, losing parts of their mighty kingdom to the dwarves on to the East, and forced to make room for the Half-Elves in the west. The elves were forced to pay tithes to the victors of the conflicts in the form of weaponry, mithril, and other substances, once a beautiful kingdom was now a broken husk of its former self.
When King Geridarr died, he left his two sons, the oldest Karidon was groomed to lead, and he was a powerful mage who created much of the arcane weaponry used in the war. The youngest was Beren, who had given up his life of luxury to serve in the army. Beren fought in the trenches against the hordes of humans at the battle of Berkinridge, arguably one of the bloodiest battles. It was there that he lost his arm.
Twenty years later, his arm replaced with a steel prosthetic, Karidon continues to preach peace and understanding between the elves and the other races of the world, in the hopes that a great democratic union can be made between the different countries.
Beren however, had different plans. He broke his rule of staying out of politics and began speaking to the people in taverns and inns. He would leap upon the tables and stir their hearts with his words of elven superiority. To Beren, the lesser races of the world did not deserve to live in their lands. Beren described the Half-Elves as a child who finds his father's sword in the attic and takes it out to play only to kill his best friend because he has no idea what he holds in his hands.
Riots began, a massed militia of elves stormed the Elven palace, when Karidon looked out upon his balcony he spotted his brother riding upon a great blue dragon and pushing his men to continue fighting. When Beren's men stormed through the gates and up the stairs to the King's tower, they found it completely empty, as though no one had lived there for weeks, with a letter addressed the Beren.
No one knows what the letter said, but Beren's coup was a success. When he took power he put a stop to all shipments of weaponry and supplies to enemies. Beren had his journal from his time in the Last Great War published by scribes, entitling it Hilladea Krinnorata. It was an inspirational book that was read by every household.
In the spring of 1394, the peace created by the War Treaties was shattered. A legion of elven warriors, mages, and priests came crashing down upon the Half-Elf fortress of Hiathalan, after three hours of fighting the fortress was taken.
The elves would continue to push on to occupy their ancestral land, Karidon had gone into hiding on another plane of existence, and the elves realized there was no way their superior firepower would be able to withstand the superior numbers of humans if they were to join the war.
It was then that Beren turned to some of his brother's research in demonology and deviltry. Sifting through the notes, Beren was able to find the key to a powerful summoning spell. Using his best sorcerers and wizards, Beren was able to call forth and aspect of Mephistopheles, together they bartered for fourteen hours straight. In the end a deal was struck, Mephistopheles would use his army of devils to bolster Beren's ranks for exchange for the souls of the fallen.
Something I'd like to add. Having shifted the Devil in question to Mephistopheles, perhaps one of the other groups could receive aid from Asmodeus.
The reasoning goes like this: Every soul taken by the elves strengthens Mephisto, bringing him closer to being able to overthrow Asmo, Asmo, to counteract this, sends an aspect to the dwarves, offering them the same deal that Mephisto and the elves enjoy. THis would also show how violent the Dwarf-Elf conflicts are, both of them are throwing devils at each other.
Or, you could have it be that Mephisto's act brought most of the lords of hell to the table, with various races allying with various devils. The a clause in the first deal, essentially brought Hell to Earth. This would heighten your "everyone is evil" theme.
If you go the second route, here are some match-ups I would recommend:
Dwarves-Dispater. Cold, patient, master of Iron. Dwarven warfare to a T.
Humans- Asmodeus. The humans have always done everything they do to the fullest extent, so why not deal with the King of Hell?
Gnomes- Baalzebub. The lord of the Flies is a genius, lending diabolical insight to gnomish engineers.
Orcs- Bel. Hell's General liked the ferocity of the orc armies, and offered his battle-hardened troops.
Half-elves - Mephistopheles. Yes, the Lord of Hellfire is running two sides. It was even a clause in the deal, "Provide aid to those of elvish blood." That's why the elves are working so hard to kill the half-elves, racial purity, and so they alone have the power of hellfire.
I think that's all your races.
that's actually a really good idea, but I don't necessarily want to just make it all about devils. I want the deviltry to stick with the Elves to represent how far they will go to win.
For dwarves, they will probably use a lot of tough beasts of war, like war-rhinoes and dire lions. The tough as nails would be their plus side, the downside is that they are ruthless and often kill civilians as much as soldiers.
The Gnomes get guns, bombs, and even some tanks. They are more technologically advanced.
Humans are more magically advanced than the gnomes, but equal in power, they have some of the most powerful mages in the world.
now, im not dismissing you, I might actually have some regiments that worship those specific demons because of that. My biggest problem is what's OGL and what's not.
Something I would like commented on is including Minotaurs (more like the dragonlance ones than the MM ones) as mercenaries, allowing for any army to field Minotaur soldiers. thoughts?
Quote from: Epic MeepoQuote from: GnomemasterI know that Turtledove wrote a fantasy story based on WW II...
Actually, the hints existed earlier than that. Does anyone remember the scene with the pseudo-"Nuremberg processes" that Harry saw in a pensieve once?
Elf Characters
Elven heroes are often skilled soldiers who lead squads of fiends across the battlefields. They are the officers, spies, and veterans of the Elven army. Most elven characters served in the Last Great War long ago, or at least were alive then.
Adventuring Elves: Elves are very loyal to their king, however, that does not mean there are not malcontents looking for freedom; often elf refugees seek asylum with other armies, or defect to the enemy when they are tired of the company of fiends. However rare that is, usually one will find elves leading small groups. Common Elven ranks are: Private, Squad Leader, Group Leader, Captain, Colonel, and General.
Roleplaying Elves: Often times the elves are stereotyped as haughty play this up to the extreme. Most elves refuse to refer to other races by name, instead calling of referring to Jozan call him 'the human with the healing' or Tordek as 'The dirty thing that kills stuff'. Feel free to refer to other players of other races as servants or your retinue. Use racial slurs (mind, not real ones, just the fake ones provided below) remember that an elf is the perfect being and sees him as such. The world is your oyster, shuck it, eat it, and move on.
Elven Racial Slurs and Relations:
'¢ On Humans: Round ears, buffoon, clumsy, hairy, or child. Elves see humans as boorish or stupid. To an elf, the only thing worse than the smell of wet dog is human, they also think of them as quickly breeding vermin.
'¢ On Half-Elves: half-breed, half-blood, half-human, or usurper. Half-Elves were given a portion of Throribas at the end of the Last Great War, elves see them as thieves.
'¢ On Dwarves: Hair-face, big nose, shorty, or varmint. Elves have always been natural enemies of the dwarves. Ever since the bearded-folk came into existence, they have been at odds with the elves.
'¢ On Orcs: green skin, pig face, squinty, or scum. Elves have never been big fans of the orcs and consider their alliance one of common interests. When the orcs outlive their usefulness the Elves will most likely desert them.
'¢ On Gnomes: little ones, small folk, pipsqueak, or rodent. Elves work well with the gnomes; however they are keenly wary of their allies. The Steamblack is a nation of inventors, they create wondrous works of warfare and the elves fear what may happen if the gnomes switch sides.
'¢ On Minotaurs: cow-man, horny, barn animal, or animal. Elves employ minotaur mercenaries just like anyone else, but are distrustful of their loyalty to the contract and not the employer.
This does look extremely awesome. I've been trying to connect the nations up to their real-world counterparts, and then I realised that you're NOT just being boring and adding fantasy to RL countries with a change of name. Rather, there're some distinct WW2 parallels, but no one country draws ALL the parallels to a nation in WW2 apart from, in a way, Elves.
Quote from: GnomemasterElven Racial Slurs and Relations
Best renaming of the "Race Relations" section of the race description block EVER!
Shucks thanks guys. I liked making the racial slurs, they were fun, especially hair-face, which someone once called me (because I have a beard). Right now I'm beginning work on the Totalitarian Gnomish State, then I will probably move on to another country like the humans. I heard the idea of riding behemoths instead of tanks, and I plan on doing something similar, does anyone have any suggestions of what they would like to see?
Gnomes
'I would gladly give a thousand soldiers for one hundred fully armed gnomes.'
-Major General Heratio Kerinald of the
Thundering steam powered tanks and the earth shattering cannons strike fear in soldiers across the world. Gnomes take pride in the fact that despite their small stature and physical strength, they are still a world power. Gnomes tend to avoid magic; instead they prefer to rely on technological power that in their mind is a constant power rather than being in constant flux like magic.
Gnomes are logical and inquisitive. Some of their most famous inventions include rifles, pistols, grenades, and steam powered tanks. Gnomes tend to be very protective of their creations, never allowing their allies and enemies to get a hold of the plans of their mightiest inventions. Some machines even have self-destruct actions to keep others from reverse engineering their technology.
Steamblack is a peninsula near Throribas with beautiful shipyards and factory cities pumping black smoke into the air with enough weaponry to feed the gnome juggernaut as it marches toward victory. Steamblack has always been a land of innovation; its cities are designed by some of the greatest architects in the world. Gnomes feel a connection with metal, physics, and design, feeling that these things are constants in a world in flux. Magic on the other hand is too unpredictable, and frankly is looked down upon by most.
Once a beacon of democracy, Steamblack has come under the control of General Daezrig, a war veteran from the Last Great War, he quickly rose to power and put an end to the Senates. Now, Steamblack is a totalitarian state that controls all aspects of gnomish life. From production in factories, to books, to the number of children allowed in a gnome family. Daezrig and his Black Party control the gnomes and destroy all opposition.
That is not to say there is none, while most gnomes enjoy the safety and prosperity provided by the Black Party, there are some who feel that freedom is more important. These revolutionaries work in cells so that should the Black Party find and destroy one the resistance still moves on. Revolutionaries are deemed traitors to the state and are executed or assigned to working in the coal mines. Either way the end is the same.
Daezrig is a paranoid despot, fearing that he will soon lose his seat of power; he looks behind for daggers all the time, and often has aides who over step their bounds killed. He is close personal friends with Beren having spent months together in a military hospital.
Quotevarmint
horny
Best racial slurs ever?
Best racial slurs ever.
...of course, that is applying an appelate like "best" to racial slurs, so...
Totalitarian Gnomish State sounds like it's full of awesome and win. I love casting Gnomes as villians - the Gnomish mafia in Eberron is one of my favorite things ever. I look forward to your wicked little bastards.
Quote from: GnomemasterGnomes
'I would gladly give a thousand soldiers for one hundred fully armed gnomes.'
-Major General Heratio Kerinald of the
[spoiler=Condensing post without cutting less bulky]Thundering steam powered tanks and the earth shattering cannons strike fear in soldiers across the world. Gnomes take pride in the fact that despite their small stature and physical strength, they are still a world power. Gnomes tend to avoid magic; instead they prefer to rely on technological power that in their mind is a constant power rather than being in constant flux like magic.
Gnomes are logical and inquisitive. Some of their most famous inventions include rifles, pistols, grenades, and steam powered tanks. Gnomes tend to be very protective of their creations, never allowing their allies and enemies to get a hold of the plans of their mightiest inventions. Some machines even have self-destruct actions to keep others from reverse engineering their technology.
Steamblack is a peninsula near Throribas with beautiful shipyards and factory cities pumping black smoke into the air with enough weaponry to feed the gnome juggernaut as it marches toward victory. Steamblack has always been a land of innovation; its cities are designed by some of the greatest architects in the world. Gnomes feel a connection with metal, physics, and design, feeling that these things are constants in a world in flux. Magic on the other hand is too unpredictable, and frankly is looked down upon by most.
Once a beacon of democracy, Steamblack has come under the control of General Daezrig, a war veteran from the Last Great War, he quickly rose to power and put an end to the Senates. Now, Steamblack is a totalitarian state that controls all aspects of gnomish life. From production in factories, to books, to the number of children allowed in a gnome family. Daezrig and his Black Party control the gnomes and destroy all opposition.
That is not to say there is none, while most gnomes enjoy the safety and prosperity provided by the Black Party, there are some who feel that freedom is more important. These revolutionaries work in cells so that should the Black Party find and destroy one the resistance still moves on. Revolutionaries are deemed traitors to the state and are executed or assigned to working in the coal mines. Either way the end is the same.
Daezrig is a paranoid despot, fearing that he will soon lose his seat of power; he looks behind for daggers all the time, and often has aides who over step their bounds killed. He is close personal friends with Beren having spent months together in a military hospital.[/spoiler]
I was right - awesome plus win.
The idea of Gnomish steam takes rocks my world. Question - could a medium sized creature hijack one of those tanks, or are they all built to Gnomish size, so only small races can us them? Also, alot of problems arrive with guns and DnD - how do you plan on handling them? (Characters with bombs or guns, especially at low levels, can be very unbalacning.) Are you going to have special classes for this new tech?
I'd recommend reading the Dragonmech setting, something I forgot about until just now. They have some pretty fair mechanics for steam weaponry, and include some fun idea for steam-powered cyborgs. Plus, you could even have gnomes in steam-powered battlesuits or some other absurdities.
In World War II, Germany was working on a tank called the Landkreuser P. 1000 Ratte. Well, tank is not a proper term. It was actually called a Landcruiser - a tank built to handle naval armaments. (for an idea of its dimensions - it would have been 35 meters long, "as tall as some churhc steeples, and so wide that manuvering in an urban area would have been either impossible or apocalpytic" (Parsons 13) In the real would, it would have been a huge waste of resources and crippled german war efforts. In a fantasy universe, you're much less restricted.
Question - will the gnomes possess actual flying machines, or will they be reliant on animals for aerial transport? Also, what kind of naval technology does your setting have?
the Gnome tanks are built to fit more than one gnome, the machinery used to drive the tanks looks like two handles, a human with the right training could technically take control of a tank. But most tanks are armed with acid self-destruct sequences. When the pilot dies or something similar, several vials of avid rupture and revert the tank to a pile of melted rubble in a matter of minutes.
To me, the guns and bombs will balance out because gnomes don't really use magic. They use technology, it's just another way of doing a lot of the things magic does. I like the idea of the tank, I saw a cool artist representation of the tank, it looked huge! I'm really excited for the Apocolypse Warhammer 40k expansion, and after getting to watch an apocolypse game, I've decided that this campaign setting will be a lot like that. Huge battlefields with millions of soldiers fighting on each side.
Gnomes use dirigibles, they look like blimps and they are pulled by several aerial beasts of burden (like bullgryphons, half bull half eagle) They also make use of air chariots.
Dream Time: What I would write if I was getting published.
If this were really getting published, I would probably include a book called Regiments of Renown,all about being apart of one of the many different regiments and what kind of bonuses you can get. Like if you were apart of the Penal Legion, or apart of the Rough Riders.
Famous Battlefields would be full of scenarios based upon the most famous of battles in the game's history. most adventures on the battlefield run like flow charts, and scenarios are the encounters that fall into that flow chart.
Then I would have my own Monster Manual, maybe a book all about Weaponry used in the war, including battle magic.
Then Army books about each army.
Yea, that sounds right.
Just as an aside, keep in mind that one problem with a setting based entirely around war is that it will be, by default, roleplaying light and encourage min-maxing. Most settings try to be flexible enough to allow both playstyles (or a mixture of both), but a setting like this just seems completely tailored towards hack-n-slash style games.
Also, with a setting like this, you run the risk of the setting and story becoming the star instead of the PCs. In a war where millions of combatants are on each side, what possible influence could a party of 5 PCs have? It'd be a very overwhelming setting if you aren't careful as a DM.
I'm not trying to be Negative Nancy, but those are two "obstacles" that immediately jump out at me. Otherwise, a very interesting and novel concept.
Quote from: IvarJust as an aside, keep in mind that one problem with a setting based entirely around war is that it will be, by default, roleplaying light and encourage min-maxing. Most settings try to be flexible enough to allow both playstyles (or a mixture of both), but a setting like this just seems completely tailored towards hack-n-slash style games.
Also, with a setting like this, you run the risk of the setting and story becoming the star instead of the PCs. In a war where millions of combatants are on each side, what possible influence could a party of 5 PCs have? It'd be a very overwhelming setting if you aren't careful as a DM.
I'm not trying to be Negative Nancy, but those are two "obstacles" that immediately jump out at me. Otherwise, a very interesting and novel concept.
Well, some ideas on how to balance role-playing with hack-and-slash.
-Envoys, between the warring sides. Have you ever seen Joyeux Noel? (I apologize to the French Language) It's set in WW1, when the Germans, Scottish, and French declared a week-long cessation of hostilities because it was Christmas. Setting up such a deal, and making sure everyone abides by it, could be quite the RP experience.
-Sabotage. C'mon, every army needs a plausibly deniable team to handle enemy installations.
-Heroic unit, a la Saving private Ryan or others.
I agree with AllWillFall2Me, a war setting, even a fantastic war setting like the one I am creating, does not have to be all about the killing. Personally, those are the kinds of games I love, games full of action, so of course the World at War is all about that, but for every "hack and slash" (you call it hack and slash, I call it adventurous) adventure idea, you can create a character who does not have to hurt others. Your mission could be to make your way to the general who is on the front lines away from healing and grievously wounded. My hope is that the Players are the officers of a squad or a group of squads made up of low level warriors and fighters. For roleplaying, you can give each one unique personalities (such as a squad medic who experiments on his patients) and then, it seems that every ambush, every attack is thwarted, because there is a mole inside, who just so happens to be the favorite NPC in the squad.
It's not all about Hack n Slash, only if you make it that way. As for your comment on a war of millions of combatants on each side, what possible influence could a part of 5 PCs have, you're absolutely right. They probably won't make a difference, they probably are just wasting your time. You can tell my grandfather that's how you feel about his time in WW II. I'm just kidding, that's way too harsh as I re-read it, but we hear all the time about those mighty individuals who do something spectacular in combat. The player's have a destiny to become war heroes.
I had an idea about the game, a tank, it will have 3 sections that you can damage. The two sides and the back, if the players lower the HP of one side to 0 then the tank can only move at 1/2 speed (or something similar) if they lower the HP of the back to 0 then the engine ruptures and explodes. This way I feel that players can be a little more tactically minded when facing off against a tank. I don't want the tank to be just another monster.
No feedback on the tank? too bad. I really haven't done a lot of crunch writing, and I suppose that's why people may think that this story is the star. That's not true, the problem is that I'm not sure if I want to spend hours writing 3.5 work only to find that it's all for not. I want to make my own system but that is just piling more work on top. I want to stick to 3.5 but I want to publish it too someday. it's hard.
I could use some suggestions, the writing has fallen to the back burner as other things come forward (like school and work)
Gnome I really like what you've got going on here. Don't think to much about what system to use, lay it all on 3.5 and transfer it later the core writing is the key then the mechanics you shift about all you want. If you need some help on the illustrations give me a shout, I would love to see what the characters drawn out would look like for this setting, even a short story even.
Here's my :2cents: on the whole "do the PCs matter?" issue.
To me, it depends on the type of campaign you want to run. If you want the players to be able to fully appreciate the epic scope of the war that is unfolding, and be instrumental in the direction that it goes-- well, then, you're in for a tough job.
However, my view is, they don't have to. It's background. It's going on around them, they're part of it, but they're not instrumental in it. The setting doesn't necessarily become the star, because it's everpresent, but the focus still remains on the characters. Things happen, but the main focus is on how the characters are trying to just get through it. There will be opportunities for heroism, of course. Not on a grand scale, but the sort of deeds that anyone who was there would never actually forget, even if it was just one of many in the broader conflict. In this case, even if there is a lot of action and violence, there are good opportunities for roleplaying, too, as each character realizes how the horrors they are forced to confront affects them personally.
Whew, This idea really has been on the back burner for me. Here is what I got so far.
First, I bought myself World War II for dummies. It's great because it spans a lot of the information I had wanted to cover. Plus, the more I read into it, the more campaign and adventure seeds I thought of.
I'm including the Halflings as the British
I'm going to return this setting a little closer to WW II's time line. This war was 6 years long (just like WW II) and the DM can decide which year he wants the game to take place in. The year will effect gameplay a little bit (what kinds of technology has been discovered, how do NPCs react, etc)
Expect to see some more posts. The main thing I need some help with is thinking of a good name for the war. So far all I have thought of is The Great War, which isn't that impressive. Any thoughts?
I have actually drawn up a map, one of the coolest things about WW II is seeing the motion and movement of the different armies. I am outlining the major countries, and leaving the smaller countries more undefined.
Here is what I got
Halflings come from the country of Farthing. Farthing has a parliamentary government lead by Prime Minister Michel Knotwise. They are a stout and strong people who suffered greatly during the Last War. You could compare them to Great Britain.
Half-Elves come from the country of Qualinar. They suffered the most from the Elves of Thoribas, and after the Last War claimed much of Thoribas for themselves to serve as a buffer between Qualinar and Thoribas. Qualinar also has a huge defense of bunkers and fortresses called the Line of Qual. The Half-Elves can be compared to the French.
The Gnomes of Steamblack are a fascist country. They have a strong centralized government ruled by a single dictator who controls all aspects of life. They are also the most technologically advanced yet magically inept of countries. The Gnomes can be compared to the Italians.
The Elves of Thoribas suffered during the Last Great War and were blamed for its the bloody losses of the other countries. Lead by Beren Miriel, a charismatic despot, he hopes to conquer the other races, pay his debt to Mephistopheles for the devil's fiendish troops, and return the elves to their rightful place of power. The elves can be compared to the Germans.
The Dwarfs of the United Dwarven Kingdom are a new and young government. Having taken power from the Dwarf King through a bloody revolution, the UDF fights for equality for all. They signed a pact with Miriel of non-aggression and are hardly trusted by their allies.
The Minotaurs of Taura are a loose association of Warlords and tribes. They have no overall government, but are seen as a powerful asset by the Elves and Gnomes due to their huge deposits of magical crystals. The Minotaurs and Taura can be compared to Africa.
The Hobgoblins of Katar have been fighting back the Orcs for decades now. They try to align themselves with more powerful countries for aid. Katar is similar to China
The Humans of Stratton hope to stay out of the war, yet find themselves sucked in when the Orcs stage a surprise attack against them. The humans end up being one of the superpowers in the war. They can be compared to America.
that's all I have for now, there are several other smaller countries that represent Poland and Finland and others. these weaker countries are made up of human and half-elven villages with a weak military.