I have noticed a glut of TWaD posts in the tavern recently, and I think the community might be better served if we took our ooc discussion somewhere else and allowed the tavern to return to its "random miscellanea" state. The last thing I want to do is flood the front page with a lot of TWaD stuff that most posters don't know about and new members won't get. This is from the FAQ:
Quote from: Code of ConductCheck your bad mood at the door, and have fun.
That is very important![/i]
Some ooc material will naturally go in the TWaD thread itself - this thread doesn't mean all ooc is banned from the game thread. I'm not exactly sure where the dividing line is, but we'll figure it out along the way.
Hah. It's quite amusing really. We all united to crush Inveran, and now we're all trying to repair the damage we did to it. We've all gone apologetic. :P
The betrayal certainly took me by surprise. I did wonder why the League and the Machta were suddenly so eager to fight Otahvy.
I think AllWillFall2Me is going to win some kind of award for "most duplicitous." :ninja:
Which reminds me, there will be some awards later down the road - things for posters like "best storytelling" (always the highest award) as well as stuff for individual states like "most heinous warmonger." :D It's a tradition for forum games like these. I may work on a TWaD badge for the signatures of the lucky ones.
Three notes.
One, I'm glad this is here, as I was thinking about suggesting the same thing.
Two, I second Wen's amusement, and would furthermore like to add that I now know if I complain enough, I'll always be fine. ;)
Thirdly, I ask you to remember that revenge is a dish best served cold. That is all.
I should have read everything first, and all I have to say is Wow.
Wow, and that you people are insane. Honestly, you could have assassinated him or, you know, done something less severe than destroy and pillage the nation, then try and stitch it back together.
I think a little bit of insanity is always a good thing for these games. That, incidentally, is why I'm so good at Risk.
well you may have just turned Inveran into the conniving bastards of the bronze age, so...
Yeah... but the thing is, none of us can now really trust anyone - even our so-called allies. Much less you. And I have suspicions about this 'ball'...
On the other hand, Celend will cripple your economy once it's back up and running, or possibly demand that you become a vassal. In which case we can all say 'well, really we did it to save you from that...'
Which is ironic, because of the three of us involved, I am the only one who hasn't committed betrayal, so really it should be my word that's being trusted.
And as for Celend, they have no reason to do it. It's better to skim off a flourishing economy than it is to heavily pull from a failing one, and I'm sure they know that. As for aligning ourselves with them, I didn't have a whole lot of choice, did I?
And I'm confused as to your post. Are you threatening not to give back Mandarian Inveran?
It caught me by surprise as well. I knew Otahvy and the League had been conniving, but I also feel like they are pretty firm allies and that the League had some issues with the Inverans. When I realized that Machta-in had betrayed Inveran as well, that floored me. I had no idea that would happen.
I found it quite funny. And Otahvy survives again. (Though I'm thinking that within the next two or so updates it'll have a civil war, but we'll see.)
And now for something completely different...
I think we need to run that council session IC, since it's a perfect time to negotiate and get some good roleplay done in character.
That was my intent, but I need to know who is and who is not attending first. If there is enough interest I might open a temporary thread for it. I'd appreciate clear declarations of intent to attend in the main thread.
It might not have been clear, but I intended to invite every nation to the council, in that second letter.
AS pertains to the "most duplicitous" award, how does it affect my standing if I'm constantly plotting ways to kill the Grand Archon and declare the League beholden to no man?
At this point I'm considering declaring it, when the time is right, a mercenary nation.
I was never quite certain how this bad blood between the captains and Inveran started. To be honest, we should be fast friends and allies. Especially now that we're both pawns of Celend.
I think it stems more from ideological and moral beliefs. The League of Free Captains are just that -- free men who enjoy their freedom and the sea. Inveran is much more imperious, which I could easily see rubbing the Free Captains the wrong way.
Of course, are they Free Captains or Free Paying-Tribute-to-Celend Captains?
Quote from: Stargate525I was never quite certain how this bad blood between the captains and Inveran started. To be honest, we should be fast friends and allies. Especially now that we're both pawns of Celend.
Heck, the only reason we betrayed you was a mix between paranoia and shame at being 'dishonoured' by refusal of the Machta's gift.
And I still say that's not really a good enough reason to betray us...
We don't have bad blood. The Captains actually didn't want you dead. What it was, was your conflict with Otavhy was pitting an ally of the Captains against an ally of the Captains, one with slightly greater ties (My holding in that area is almost a duchy of Otahvy). When offered by another ally, The Machta, the chance to strike you, it was the Captains ruling the "Greater good". Two allies pleased, and one hamstringed, unlikely to do anything like this again, versus one dead, one pleased.
My state is my popular vote amongst the leaders. There were some who opposed the decision.
jharviss does point another"strike" against your leader.
My people are entirely willing to forget that even happened. And we agree about the servants of Celend.
Okay, something I will be bringing up is a combined effort against the Auri. They've been crashing our party long enough, and by the sounds of things, they seem very, very rich.
Plenty of land and goods to go around, no?
i believe that in my last post on TWaD i adressed that
I know; that's what gave me the idea. But at the council, the leaders of the entire world will be there, which will be a perfect time to plan.
indeed
Hey Mith, how many of the NPC nations are coming, and are the Auri going to attend?
Celend is obviously coming, and probably Yaffa too. It's unlikely that states with no stake in the middle sea are going to bother, and it's uncertain if Celend would even let them interfere. Certainly the Auri have nothing to gain from attendance.
I've been wondering what will happen concerning the Auri, and I also look forward to actual meeting Celend. I have had no contact with them -- which many would argue is a blessing. Nonetheless, I know that I am indebted to the League and will probably do whatever is necessary to help them.
My forces are going to be spread really thin this round... Oh well!
This may be a little late, but why in God's name did the Mandrians rebel in the first place?
Quote from: Stargate525This may be a little late, but why in God's name did the Mandrians rebel in the first place?
This was actually planned before I even knew about the betrayals. The Mandrian leadership was very against your planned attack against Otahvy, and it was decided that they would attempt to seize control of the capital as soon as Aristo left. Mavda and the higher leaders surmised that the escalating tensions between you and Otahvy would eventually endanger the Mandrian population in Inveran. They knew well about Otahvy's execution of Invernessi and worried that you might do the same to them, especially given your demands on Otahvy for Mandrian slave labor. If you were unable to get this labor from Otahvy, would you get it from Mandrians already in your land? Mavda wasn't sure but he didn't want to find out either.
Had Aristo successfully defeated Otahvy and still had his fleet intact, Inveran would have easily been recaptured, though Mavda would have tried to get other powers to back him up. At the very least, Mavda hoped that he would be able to get the League to provide his people sanctuary, just like the League gave a few Invernessi sanctuary in Maducreon when Otahvy started executing the Inveran delegation. The rebellion would have been a fairly minor occurrence had it not coincided with the surprise upset victory at the Battle of Four Fleets; it might not even have succeeded at all, since it was largely through the total destruction of Inveran's military and the highly demoralized state of its population that Mavda was able to so neatly seize power.
Wouldn't it have been grand if Otahvy had been completely destroyed and then I start playing Mandrian Inveran, and then Inveran would have to fight me all over again? Ahh, that would've had a great deal of irony written all over it.
You know, just occasionally, it would be great to be able to figure out the general disposition of my own people before a, doing something completely against their wishes, and b, going into the 25 year turn.
Understanding their people was something few kings did. It just didn't happen. I'm still trying to figure out my Mandrian peoples.
Hey, Mithidates, I was wondering what those little dark blue patches near the coast are? There's one in Otahvy across from Nilburg, another at the end of the river flowing through Tescha, and another in Ruthern. They were there in the old map and in the one you remade, but I can't quite figure out what they are. Thanks!
They're the land holdings of the Free Captains, Jharviss.
As for understanding the people, I know that it didn't always happen, but I should at least know about murmurs of uprising before they completely take my capital. Especially since everyone in the government is elected by the people, directly or indirectly.
Perhaps doing what you're doing now, giving your people a voice will fix that, aha. But I must say it does make the game more interesting and in this instance was pretty logical. (I'll just wait for that comment to come back and bite me.)
I apologize for ignoring so many states, but I reason that there are quite a few who I have not heard of and/or have not heard of me. i.e. Kashtu and Nargaq. And others who are all but dismissed by the thinking of the Vrenas in general.
Also, I'd just like to say that you're doing a really great job running this, Mithridates.
I second Amikaligula's final statement. Superb job.
I third Amikaligula's final statement. Sup- oh, wait. Nevermind.
Great job, Mith!
Fourthed. My complaining really mean I enjoy it. I don't bother to complain about stuff I hate, usually my protest in that regard involves lighter fluid...
I'm under the opinion that Amikaligula deserves a "Most Likely to Have a Civil War... again" award. That, or the "Most Interesting Way to Give Orders" award. Both would be deserved.
Agreed. If I had to say, my nominations would be Jharviss for 'Luckiest Bastard' award and AWF2M for 'Most Untrustworthy.'
i give myself the award for "Surving against the Auri"
That might just deserve an award. I was quite surprised.
Indeedy. And AWF2M definitely gets "Most Untrustworthy". As far as the civil war goes, yes, but Stravam is practically a separate city-state at the moment anyway. I'm having fun playing the different factions because when I do it's like I have multiple personalities and I don't know how one will react to another. That incident at the dock got more heated when I expected.
Hey, I'm very trustworthy.
You just need to get my word.
And provide enough reason for that word.
OK, I'm devoutly mercenary. But I have values.
I've got a feeling goading Celend will either be extremely gratifying, or a horrible, horrible move.
If I'm lucky, the Archon will draw steel against someone and kill him...
No, if you're lucky, I'll kill him somehow, and start a war between Celend and myself, with myself being beaten, but celend weakened enough for you to strike a finishing blow.
If you're unlucky, I'll kill him, and somehow, you'll get blamed, and Celend will crush you.
I call killing him.
;P
The thing is, if you kill someone, I'll have to arrest and kill you. Rules of the festival, see?
What we need is for him to attack you, then you kill him. Self defense isn't punished, and the war begins.
True, but if Inveran arrests and executes a free captain, Otahvy will, due to moral obligation, have to crush the rest of Inveran (and, I believe, Otahvy will be helped by the Mandrians off-shore and any Free Captains that come to Otahvy's assitance).
But the League will be at war with Celend.
And Celend will be destroyed by the League, Otahvy, Machta-in, and Andos (who will all come to help).
And all three will then be weakened.
And Ar-Auriban will win crush us all.
But, somehow, Nargaq will win.
QuoteIf I'm lucky, the Archon will draw steel against someone and kill him...
The Grand Archon, like all the Archons, is a eunuch, and Orman is almost 60 years old. He is personally unlikely to be stabbing anybody at the conference. The Agah, sure, he might run you through good and proper - but the Archons, literally and figuratively, don't have the balls. 8)
Thanks for the thoughts, Jharviss.
Mith, I knew there was a reason I disliked them.
Star, who says I would stab them? That's just asking for trouble.
I think I should have an award for 'Most easily insulted and probably slightly mad ruler'.
But yes. The Machta's planning to goad the Archon too...
Quote from: JharvissTrue, but if Inveran arrests and executes a free captain, Otahvy will, due to moral obligation, have to crush the rest of Inveran (and, I believe, Otahvy will be helped by the Mandrians off-shore and any Free Captains that come to Otahvy's assitance).
Which is totally insane, as I Warned you people of the consequences, and took it of your own free will.
course, when has that ever stopped anyone from punishing someone for something that was their fault?
Celend's getting on a lot of peoples' backs. The Free Captains don't like them because they're vassals, the Machta doesn't like them because they stopped his bid for the Inverness, it's unlikely that the Mandrians will like them once they meet the Archon personally, and even Inveran's beginning to get annoyed with them.
I smell Celend's downfall... :P
Okay, first Celend, then the Auri...
I find it a bit frightening that the player nations are developing a hit list.
hey everyone, i will be back on tuesday and reply to people and what not. (life takes up so much time >.<)
My only concern about facing off against Celend is those "meaningless" numbers Mith handed out earlier.
As I recall, Celend had more that double anyone's, including Nargaq.
Now, that may be partly because of my vassal status, but even taking me out of the picture still leaves them highest.
It's gonna take a lot of power to bring them down.
Did the Despotissa's captains ever say anything about attending?
Maybe I should be Most Machiavellian instead of most untrustworthy.
Quote from: AllWillFall2MeMy only concern about facing off against Celend is those "meaningless" numbers Mith handed out earlier.
As I recall, Celend had more that double anyone's, including Nargaq.
Now, that may be partly because of my vassal status, but even taking me out of the picture still leaves them highest.
It's gonna take a lot of power to bring them down.
Of course, if we split them in two, then each side is half as strong, and warring with itself besides.
*nods*
But how would we do that? :P
The "meaningless numbers" were meaningless in that they do not precisely reflect power - for instance, swordsmen impact the scores just as much as bladesmen do, even though in most situations swordsmen are probably superior. They also don't reflect things like organization and morale - or for that matter, leadership.
That said, while the specific numbers themselves are meaningless, the overall statement is more or less correct; Celend has a lot of troops (you don't need a spy to know that). Those numbers don't reflect vassals, either, only the state itself.
No, the Despotissa has made no comment as to the conference. Presumably they received Inveran's invitation.
Quote from: WensleydaleBut how would we do that? :P
Oh, I can think of more than a couple of ways...
Create a schism in their religion; since its a theocracy, the walls will come tumbling down.
Get their economy to rely more and more on us, then pull our support. Massive economic depression is always fun.
Assassinate the Archon (not at the peace conference!) and blame it on Kuregn. Not a civil war, but two bigass countries dueling to the death, and we clean up the survivor.
On another note, I think we may need a 'half-update' this time, to get the whole Inveran capital thing sorted out, and lead into the peace talks.
In international diplomacy, especially during this time period, it doesn't matter what laws were put down. If an ally of mine is struck, and he did something that was reasonable, it would be logical for me to strike back.
The "laws" of the council of peace mean nothing if they mean the death of an ally.
By the way, what happened to Kuregn? Why don't we just randomly target them?
And for what God-awful reason did we decide that Celend is a more dangerous threat than the Ar-Auriban? The Auriban have been growing and destroying for decades, and we just keep ignoring them. Maybe we're all just stupid water-borne nations.
Quote from: JharvissIn international diplomacy, especially during this time period, it doesn't matter what laws were put down. If an ally of mine is struck, and he did something that was reasonable, it would be logical for me to strike back.
The "laws" of the council of peace mean nothing if they mean the death of an ally.
By the way, what happened to Kuregn? Why don't we just randomly target them?
And for what God-awful reason did we decide that Celend is a more dangerous threat than the Ar-Auriban? The Auriban have been growing and destroying for decades, and we just keep ignoring them. Maybe we're all just stupid water-borne nations.
We don't like Celend because they're a bunch of pnasies who send their vassals to do their own work.
Kuregn, with a youngling on the throne, is not a half bad idea.
And as for the Auri, we're smart water-borne nations, and realize that since they don't have a navy, they can't get to us, and that it would be much better to simply wait for them to collapse under their own weight.
Quote from: Strgt55And as for the Auri, we're smart water-borne nations, and realize that since they don't have a navy, they can't get to us, and that it would be much better to simply wait for them to collapse under their own weight.
I'm sure Nargaq will be comforted by this logic.
That, or the Auri get so large that they become able to produce ships faster than we can sink them. I would be more worried about that. Ships can always be built.
That, Jharviss, would require a level of infrastructure that is utterly insane, and would probably be logistically impossible in the bronze age. It is a scary thought though...
Not so. I have one port that produces ships of war, and I would imagine that is true with all of my water-borne allies (save, perhaps, the Free Captains, who could probably make new ports pretty fast). The Auri, with their size, would likely have several ports, as well as living in a wood-plentiful region (which I'm not sure that they do, though they probably have a good amount of wood regardless). I think it's all quite possible.
I suppose the question really becomes how fast can we sink them. And if we don't exist anymore, I'm pretty sure they can build ships faster than we can sink them.
They're in grassland and plains, so wood is an issue. Also, if we've got their ports blockaded, unless they can build ships faster than it takes to board them, we won't have an issue.
Sounds like we've got a strategy then.
Quote from: JharvissSounds like we've got a strategy then.
For dealing with the Auri? Wait until they turn towards us, if ever, and then blockade their ports?
Quote from: Strgt55They're in grassland and plains, so wood is an issue.
Guess what Nargaq and Ruthern have a lot of.
Quote from: MithridatesQuote from: Strgt55They're in grassland and plains, so wood is an issue.
Guess what Nargaq and Ruthern have a lot of.
I have a plan:
We burn them to the ground.
Hey, it worked for Stalin!
In all seriousness, I do think the Auri need to be handled, but it works in a kind of reverse of what Stargate said. I have NO army. I currently have one of the strongest fleets in the world (I think), but I have no troops other than those manning the ships. You want me to send sailors into the desert/plains to fight them?
Although...If I built land ships...(I should mention that I want to achieve something that was never done IRL. Hence my trials at floating cities, war whales, etc.)
Hmm. What if, I took the skins of whales, inflated them using burning whale blubber, and then made Hot Whale balloons? That'd scare the crap out of any nation we wanted to fight!
But as allies of the Auri, I really have no big incentive to do anything. At least the Celenites are irritating me.
or, provoke Kuregn into attacking one of us (pretend all of our ships and armies were destroyed), run and hide behind Celend, let them fight it out, and clean up the mess.
Quote from: Strgt55or, provoke Kuregn into attacking one of us (pretend all of our ships and armies were destroyed), run and hide behind Celend, let them fight it out, and clean up the mess.
Ooh, yes. If Kuregn's leaders are still as arrogant as they used to be, that shouldn't be hard. That was one of the things I was planning - the Machta aren't exactly fans of Kuregn.
That sounds like a plan!
you know, you guys really cannot ignore the Auri. If they overrun Nargaq, they will get my huge copper supply, and since they already have quite a foothold in the east, they will have plenty of tin. with so much tin and copper they will be able to make an even superior army, which they will be able to send upon ships which they make from the trees of Nargaq to conquer your nations. So, in fact, you should protect me at all costs and to give this message to your people I will probably come to the council thing
Hmm. Atlantis's plea for survival has not fallen on typically deaf ears. Perhaps if we were to enlist the aid of Celend, we could marshal a force able to defeat the Auri. And with Celend's army so far from its lands, we could easily turn on it/convince Kuregn to attack. Pit the three greatest powers against one another.
Holy Crap you's evil...
With war on epic scale such as that, I'd be a bit worried about crossfire... Although it would be a frikkin masterstroke to simultaneously have the three largest powers wipe themselves off the map.
but that would practically leave me in complete control of the southe-eastern part of the north. If i destroyed arannia nothing coulr really be done about it seeing as i am so isolated from all the powerful nations and even you see-borne nations combining your army *scoffs* could not defeat me
Quote from: Atlantisbut that would practically leave me in complete control of the southe-eastern part of the north. If i destroyed arannia nothing coulr really be done about it seeing as i am so isolated from all the powerful nations and even you see-borne nations combining your army *scoffs* could not defeat me
Actually, we probably could. If you've got coastline, we can kill you. :P
wow, i show up for the first time in two days and blam! someone speeks of destroying me >.<
Atlantis, you're forgetting that the land left by Celend and Kuregn would probably be split evenly between Machta, Inveran, and maybe Otahvy.
That makes us significant threats on land and sea.
Quote from: Strgt55Atlantis, you're forgetting that the land left by Celend and Kuregn would probably be split evenly between Machta, Inveran, and maybe Otahvy.
That makes us significant threats on land and sea.
Oooh, POWAH.
Y'know, I think another NPC nation should appear out of the rest of the Inverness, a collection of the tiny little principalities that were left over from the formation of the Machta and Inveran. That would make Invernessi politics even more... uhr... subtle than they are now.
subtle? Pah, they wouldn't last. You or I would slowly absorb them one by one.
You got it! I'm taking Kuregn and all of the western part of that continent. It shall be a part of the Otahvian Empire! And then we're going to have an Augustus vs. Marcus Antonius type war between Puul and Rodonso, and Puul's going to win because Rodonso is going to fall in love with the Despotissa, and they're both going to commit suicide, and then Puul is going to rule justly to the end of the empire, when barbaric Baktashi come and invade.
Quote from: Strgt55subtle? Pah, they wouldn't last. You or I would slowly absorb them one by one.
Meh, it depends. The Machta-In started off as a bunch of minor principalities which one equally small principality absorbed, and now if it wasn't for Celend and certain other big countries it could finish off most of the world's nations. So, it's always possible that that nation could grow equally powerful. Although we'd still probably be bigger than it.
Quote from: JharvissYou got it! I'm taking Kuregn and all of the western part of that continent. It shall be a part of the Otahvian Empire! And then we're going to have an Augustus vs. Marcus Antonius type war between Puul and Rodonso, and Puul's going to win because Rodonso is going to fall in love with the Despotissa, and they're both going to commit suicide, and then Puul is going to rule justly to the end of the empire, when barbaric Baktashi come and invade.
At which point the then Mandrian Empire will split into hundreds of different little countries and a few hundred years later some posh feller will invent the rifle and the entire process will happen all over again. :P
As the discussion thread got pushed to the wayside and everyone started OOCing everywhere else.
I would recommend that if you take over Arannia, just have a civil war. Let the rebels win, make some structural changes that you'd like to make, and play it with a new name (if you so choose). I think it would be fun to go in and start playing this round from the standpoint of a rebel, and then at the next round your rebel is now the national hero and leader.
Just a thought.
On a side-note, this council for peace is about to prove why no peace conference has ever really been succussful.
Quote from: Stargate525Atlantis, you're forgetting that the land left by Celend and Kuregn would probably be split evenly between Machta, Inveran, and maybe Otahvy.
That makes us significant threats on land and sea.
What? Was I not invited to the war?
Quote from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_David_AccordsI must protest this statement![/url]
Or the first recorded peace treaty (http://nefertiti.iwebland.com/ramses-hattusili-treaty.htm), from 1283 BC.
Hey Mith, it might be helpful if we could have a more detailed map of the Middle Sea, instead of having to regard one that's small and cluttered with name markers.
Done. It's not actually more detailed, just enlarged and sharpened. There are innumerable small rocks and islands in the Middle Sea, but the ones shown are the only ones significant enough for an actual self-sufficient village.
Good enough for me. I'm assuming that there are more islands supportable in there than just the dozen though, right? I mean, those are pretty large if a village or two can only have a small sliver of the island.
If we're not careful, this entire conference is going to explode in our faces, and Celend's fleets will sail away without their archon and every nation who has attended will be without a ruler. :P
That would be rather insane. Hooray for Anarchy through peace conferences!
Well, the thing is, the Machta has brought 3/4 of his rather substantial navy and armed forces here. I mean, they'd probably be destroyed by Celend's pretty rapidly, but not before they'd slaughtered most of Inveran's population and everyone in the palace. Although, even if the Machta escaped, Celend's counterstrike would obliterate him.
So unless he's absolutely insane, he'd never...
...we're screwed.
To be honest though, I'm seeing a world war in two-three turns, since most of the player nations are buddying up to the larger ones, while doing their best to piss each other off.
and Arvadera is going to be the Swiss while the rest of the world blows up *grins*
Unlikely. It's very close to the Machta's territory. And let's face it, Sha'naa is a crotchety old man who went to war with his ALLY over refusal of an arranged marriage. It seems only too likely that EVERYONE is going to be affected. :P
true, but other nations are closer. Arvadera just have to make sure not to tick of its nearest neighbours. (and hope you have managed to tick off atleast one of the nations that's closer to Machta-In then Arvadera.
If we're not careful, Rodonso, the Machta and his guard will start laying about them with whatever weapons come to hand. After which, Inveran will become a bloodbath and probably be reputed as being cursed forever after. :P
Or, Inveran will take it as a mandate from the Dragon Saints that their way is to be marked by blood, and begin a campaign of singlehanded conquest with no quarter given.
Quote from: Stargate525Or, Inveran will take it as a mandate from the Dragon Saints that their way is to be marked by blood, and begin a campaign of singlehanded conquest with no quarter given.
It's hard to leave an island when you had to borrow fishing ships to get here. :P
Quote from: WensleydaleIt's hard to leave an island when you had to borrow fishing ships to get here. :P
Well it sure as hell wouldn't be immediate. And besides, our sailors are so good we could kick the ass of your galleons fighting off a floating piece of driftwood.
Meanwhile, then from the sound of it captain Okay and King Meas will sit at a descreet part of the docks and watch the show....and probaly take bets too.
On this island? Unlikely. The Machta's men probably wouldn't kill a Free Captain, but the Celendi might. And King Meas hardly has protection. :P
right...emphasy on descreet. *nods, nods*
Yes, how much force did you bring exactly, Tillumni Sephirotica?
ah, I probaly should had detailed that, my bad *scratches the back of his head*.
anyway 2 Galley, each with 25 spearmen in addition to the crew. (by the way, I can't quiet remember how many passenger a galley can transport, so I'm kinda aiming low)
Quote from: WensleydaleOn this island? Unlikely. The Machta's men probably wouldn't kill a Free Captain, but the Celendi might. And King Meas hardly has protection. :P
Why do people keep assuming my boss is as willing to kill me as I am him?
In other news, I submit that Ruthern, for not attending, be fully converted to a League State!
Anyone who wishes to join the Empire of the League, sign up now while you still get a fancy hat!
I'm a little bummed Lindus didn't take to my baiting.I had a big speech prepared and everything if he started calling me names. Suffice to say, Okar and Inveran have some backstory.
If an actual treaty gets going, I'm totally using my "clout" to establish League merchants as inapplicable for hostile actions. The league itself may side, and fight, but the merchants don't count.
[quoteStargate525]
And besides, our sailors are so good we could kick the ass of your galleons fighting off a floating piece of driftwood.
[/quote]
They all died, remember? :sosad:
;)
Quote from: MithyThey all died, remember? :sosad:
But it's a lifestyle for them! We're still mostly fishing in daily sustenance. That's right boys, our fisherman can take on your 'highly trained' sailors and win! On a piece of driftwood! With the use of only one hand!
Quote from: AllWillFall2MeIf an actual treaty gets going, I'm totally using my "clout" to establish League merchants as inapplicable for hostile actions. The league itself may side, and fight, but the merchants don't count.
Oh that's going to go over real well...
Well, it falls in with my intention of eventually turning the League into a mercenary state.
Merchants' actions are separate from warriors', who are in turn lent to those most willing to get them.
Sadly, the peace treaty won't stop people executing your merchants. Especially nations like Otahvy and the lovable Andos, which care very little for writing. :P
Speaking of which, I <3 Andos. And Otahvy.
It's very amusing how everybody's treating this from a kind of post-WW1 perspective, when really, if somebody defeats someone else in war, they can do what they like. :P
Yeah, so Captains selling weapons which will eventually be used to kill other captains... That'll turn out real well.
which some of the nations have very little interesit in...it sets a bad precedence.....not that the auri seems to care. *waves pom-poms for the conviniently positioned Nagdaq warriors*
Wen, double standard! You're fine when Otahvy does it, but God forbid Inveran try doing something warlike...
Otahvy's my FRIEND.
Quote from: WensleydaleIt's very amusing how everybody's treating this from a kind of post-WW1 perspective, when really, if somebody defeats someone else in war, they can do what they like. :P
If this was really done bronze age style, the more likely outcome would be that the victorious leaders would exact a hefty tribute and be done with it. Why bother actually ruling a bunch of foreigners when you can just beat profit out of them at regular intervals?
Celend approaches the matter diplomatically only because they have a vested interest in preserving their own vassals. If Inveran hadn't appealed to them for aid it's unlikely they would care in the least about how the islands of the Middle Sea were divided up. Kuregn and Celend both have agriculture-heavy economies that depend very little on the island trade networks; your states are largely irrelevant to them unless paying them tribute or providing them with military service.
Because ruling them means the Machta has more power, and can exact tolls whenever he wants.
Not to mention money money money.
Anyway, Mithy, I sent a letter on the main thread. :P
figured it might be a good idea to post orders from agreements done during the meeting to be posted here.
reduce tax on The Leagues trade ship, and allow thier ships to dock in Avarderas ports for no fee, if they agree to protect Avarderas water.
reduce tax on Inverness trade ship, with higher priority for Avadera trade ships to deal in Inverness, untill Inverness have rebuild thier trade fleet. this include lumber from Avaderas forest which will be sold to Inverness at a price lowered to only cover expenses, untill thier fleet is rebuildt.
You've got the right idea, but orders should be posted in the regular thread, not this discussion thread. I don't check this thread when updating; the main thread always gets re-read before an update. If you want to make sure orders are included, repost them in the main thread with your other orders.
Are you covering them all? Then add:
Border line established between Machta and Inveran.
It's INVERAN. The Inverness is the island chain that Inveran and the Machta-In both control. If you mean the Inverness, that includes me. :P
To repeat myself on this new page,
[ooc]orders should be posted in the regular thread, not this discussion thread. I don't check this thread when updating; the main thread always gets re-read before an update. If you want to make sure orders are included, repost them in the main thread with your other orders.[/ooc]
This thread is a discussion only thread and has no bearing on the game itself.
ohh, right, my bad Inveran it is then. sorry..getting late..mind's not working right....ehehe
and will do Mithy.
Hey im relatively new at the world creating thing, but this seems like a really fun game and i would like to join. If it wouldn't be too much trouble.
Yo! I'd like to get back in! Should I create a new one, or can i kickstart Ruthern?
Quote from: Locknpop4lifeHey im relatively new at the world creating thing, but this seems like a really fun game and i would like to join. If it wouldn't be too much trouble.
Check the instructions on the first page of the main thread for how to join - I need a state description and location, then you can jump right in.
Quote from: Sir VorpalYo! I'd like to get back in! Should I create a new one, or can i kickstart Ruthern?
That's your decision - though it may depend on how willing you are to face down the Auri. Ruthern is most certainly next on the Agah's list.
New one it is! I'll have the stuf for it by tomorrow after noon, tonight i'm swamped with studying.
Next on the agah's list? are you implying he will destroy Nargaq? HA! NARGAQ WILL NOT PERISH! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!
but if he does destroy it im gonna start really far west
K. Where should I post the new one? Here or on the main thread?
The system at this point seems to be that you PM me your description and location, I check it over and make any comments/changes, and then you post it in the thread.
so... how is the god-touched fish coming along?
It's about 50% done. The downside of having this many players is that it takes longer to write these things.
Circumstances have conspired to take a great deal of my time in the past week; specifically, this is the last week of my present job, and I am preparing to move across the country on Saturday. Additionally, I have had a great deal of trouble getting my internet to work at home.
Nevertheless, I will try my utmost to get this update out in the next few days. It's around 75% done right now. As this is a big milestone - year 200 - this will be a deluxe update, featuring some new maps and (just maybe) our first taste of fantasy in TWAD.
*celebrates*
We've got new maps, we've got fun stuff, we've got our cool DM, who could ask for anything more?
oh goody goody! god carp, good carp. *tries to resist*...*fails*... magicarp...
Fantasy? Yay! that might add shamans to my army, so i can fire lightning bolts at people!
Not before I did to my navy.
Then, nobody truly COULD stand before the might of the SEA! MUAHAHAHA!
GLEE!
Sea serpent harvesting: a guide by the Free Captains.
Charm and it's uses: A guide to international diplomacy.
well, he only said fantasy, not magic. perhaps that just means a herd of centaurs are going to join the Auri(they do seem vey close to their horses) and kick our butts.
a thrice hurray for the hard working gm! oh, and good luck with your moving. *squee excited*
The update is 90% done. There is a possibility that it will be out tonight, but if it isn't, it will be out tomorrow.
*Hugs the slimy, scaled form of the Holy carp as if it were a brother*
*watches as AWF2M slowly suffocates the DM in the air.*
Put him back man! I'm still trying to figure out how he's typing without hands, in the water...
The update should be out tomorrow.
Quote from: amikaligulawell, he only said fantasy, not magic. perhaps that just means a herd of centaurs are going to join the Auri(they do seem vey close to their horses) and kick our butts.
This would probably be a good time to stop giving me ideas!
But yes, I said fantasy, not magic - though fantasy could conceivably include magic.
QuotePut him back man! I'm still trying to figure out how he's typing without hands, in the water...
Holy[/i]. It's a miracle.
Quote from: Holy Carp!The update should be out tomorrow.
tomorrow being tuesday? I've got you posting at one in the morning on tuesday, so I'm curious.
Quote from: Holy Carp!Holy. It's a miracle.
Praise be to God, for he has led the Carp verily to typeth!
The written update is complete, so the whole thing should be posted as soon as the maps are finished.
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Update is up.
As usual, let me know if there are errors or omissions.
Quote from: AllWillFall2MeGLEE!
Sea serpent harvesting: a guide by the Free Captains.
Soon.
These turtles will be turned.
Turtles, bah.
We've got what, four, five players in Middle Sea trade now? This is rapidly turning into a game of economics.
Well, It wasn't, then SOMEBODY decided to undercut my profit marign. I am a reckless adventuring people. Making me focus on money is gonna turn cutthroat.
hooray for price wars, where everyone benefits but us!
Eventually one of us will loose, for there can be only one...
Mithy Carp: There is a discrepancy between my forces and army/navy listing that confuses me. Did my forces decrease or should my Andosen spearmen replace my spearmen?
Oh, to the rest of you, I might be rather busy for awhile, so sorry in advance for any lack of participation...
Quick question: I seem to recall Yaffa renouncing Celend's suzerainity. Did this in fact happen, or no?
Ami: That was a typo and will be changed.
AWF2M: Yaffa is still technically a protectorate but is effectively independent.
Well, that was a long post.
This entire sea is just WAITING to burst into conflict. I'm not sure who'd win if Kuregn went against Celend, but I imagine wise people would stand aside from the conflict. And, well...
One spark, and the world is going to explode. The only people safe from it are Andos, and they've got their own serious problems.
It's gonna be a bronze age world war I, and hopefully Kuregn will take the Germany/Austria-Hungary side.
Quote from: Stargate525It's gonna be a bronze age world war I, and hopefully Kuregn will take the Germany/Austria-Hungary side.
We can all hope.
Either way though, I get the feeling that the Peace of Celend is going to be about as effective as the Treaty of Versailles was in 1939.
Quote from: WensleydaleEither way though, I get the feeling that the Peace of Celend is going to be about as effective as the Treaty of Versailles was in 1939.
I agree. It's looking to me like you're gearing up for a Hitler-esque natural rights assault. Hopefully I'll end up like Poland instead of France.
Yeah, I was thinking that. In some ways, the new Machta is quite Hitleresque. Not in that he's into genocide, but that he believes it's the natural destiny of his people to colonise and conquer, especially in the Inverness, and that the Invernessi are denying the gods' will.
Quote from: WensleydaleYeah, I was thinking that. In some ways, the new Machta is quite Hitleresque. Not in that he's into genocide, but that he believes it's the natural destiny of his people to colonise and conquer, especially in the Inverness, and that the Invernessi are denying the gods' will.
Which is patently ridiculous, because you know that the Machta-In was founded by escaped Inveran prisoners...
Quote from: Stargate525Quote from: WensleydaleYeah, I was thinking that. In some ways, the new Machta is quite Hitleresque. Not in that he's into genocide, but that he believes it's the natural destiny of his people to colonise and conquer, especially in the Inverness, and that the Invernessi are denying the gods' will.
Which is patently ridiculous, because you know that the Machta-In was founded by escaped Inveran prisoners...
Muahahaha. Cultural and linguistic evidence points elsewhere! *razz or whatever it is*
All I want to know is why the hell everyone picks on me?
As evidenced by the latest diplomacy post, you just pick fights with the wrong people. :)
Yeah, but still. Free Captains have no problem, Otahvy has no problem... Oh, wait, an Inveran ship, let's give them hell...
In this case, the free captains played ball.
And another crisis averted because of my kickass debating skills!
You mean another crisis you initiated averted by said skills.
I just have to share that this made my day:
Quotefather did you hear the news? a hippo killed juhad when he was trying to cage it and remove its teeth. it is a sign from the divine everyone in the village has taken it as such and are honoring the hippo as the divines' pets. there is to be a hippo sacrifice once per lunar cycle and more people are trying to capture them for other uses such as plowing the taro fields or for food. i even heard one of the soldiers tried riding one and unfortunately he is no longer with us.
Quote from: AllWillFall2MeYou mean another crisis you initiated averted by said skills.
Besides the point...
*prepared to hide behind Nargaq, in case all hell breaks lose down south again*
No irony meant, then Avardera got some of the must nifty neighbours. bunch of tunnel digging, empire defying mean sons of a bear to the south, and insane warrior women who'll try to kill you with thier bare fist, if you only manage to disarm them. (by the way, hope you don't get too stressed with what ever you're up to Ami)
so I guess it's really Kashtu and Yaffa that's in deep trouble, who's in must trouble depends on where ever or not they'll wander an army through the desert, or sail it over the sea.
oh, on a side note, unless it's for specific kind of trade agreements, like embargo, rates and such, can it then be assumed that ones nations traders asils to where ever there's profit, despite any communication or lack there off between the nations?
I'm definitely worried about being caught between the hammer and the anvil if Kuregn goes to war with Celend. I need to persuade them to take their war elsewhere.
The Machta's brother is even more psychotic than he himself.
...
Oh dear. War is inevitable.
Thing is, if you're the agressor, this should prove rather enjoyable...
Yeah. He's unlikely to invade Inveran, though. He's only about fourteen, however, and idealistic and violent. He was the only real choice that wasn't likely to spark civil war or at least dissent, though.
Quote from: WensleydaleYeah. He's unlikely to invade Inveran, though. He's only about fourteen, however, and idealistic and violent. He was the only real choice that wasn't likely to spark civil war or at least dissent, though.
Phooey. Your nation needs a good civil war, and a friendly nearby ally to help 'put down the rebellion.'
I'm temped to just goad you into attacking Inveran, truth be told.
I think you Southerners need to find some stronger liquors to trade to my Northerners. What's funner than six-foot-spear wielding psychotic barbarians drunk off their asses?
six-foot-spear wielding psychotic barbarians who's drunk off thier arses and have to learn how the hack to herd sheeps for the first time in thier life. *grins*
I've actually herded both sheep and goats and found that that while sheep are not exactly easy, they are not completely impossible. Goats, on the other hand, herd you more than you can ever hope to herd them. Admittedly, I determined my strength does not lie in herding, but I have heard that this is the usual with goats.
That said, I'm sure the Andosens will manage the actual herding part quite easily, but the matter of when to shear the sheep will take some education.
So how would we get units (such as Andosen spearmen) added to the official list? The Machta-In has plenty of raiders, for example, who prefer a hit-and-run style of tactics but can hold their ground if necessary (although they are much more likely to retreat to the nearest ship and strike again somewhere with less armed forces and more plunder).
I think it involves years of natural develiopement and requre that the fishy actually know of it. I think it took the andosen spear(wo)men around 100 year or so, to develiope? the Mach-ta in raiders sounds abit like marines, which have adopted hit-and-run as thier main tactic.
on a related note, then I'm starting to love the dynamics between Avardera and Andos.
and darn can the Inveran people stir up a good conflict!...both of them! looking forward to see where things go.
OR overbearing will, in the case of my turtle-riders.
THE SEA IS LIFE!
I'm extremely curious to see what this will do. I'm also curious to see what the Machta will do about a full-on blockade.
You know Stargte, I was considering my own blockade of Machta, but now you've accused me of being highly mercenary. I must think on this.
I can't wait until paper, so i can invent pinates. I wonder what shall fill them?
Oh ya, the Andosens invented gravity. (that's gotta count for a +1 somewhere)
How about a +1 to falling damage?
You should fill your piñatas with arrowheads, to toughen your children.
Now, to plot the downfall of the Inverness. AND YES I know that means both of them.
Wait, what?
Why would you blockade the Machta? You're still allowed in!
I'll use my vast fleet of galleys to pwn u?
Actually, a blockade will cause the Machta-In to attack you. He was going to blockade Avardera, but if not...
Quote from: TillumniI think it involves years of natural develiopement and requre that the fishy actually know of it. I think it took the andosen spear(wo)men around 100 year or so, to develiope? the Mach-ta in raiders sounds abit like marines, which have adopted hit-and-run as thier main tactic.
on a related note, then I'm starting to love the dynamics between Avardera and Andos.
and darn can the Inveran people stir up a good conflict!...both of them! looking forward to see where things go.
Remember this WORD: INVERNESS! INVERNESSINVERNESSINVERNESS! Not Inveran! :P
And yeah, that's true. But raiding is a way of life, really. It was less so for a short while under Sha'naa and his predecessors, Padre and Sedoon, but this Machta will probably bring it back to life again, because he's a psychopath.
you know, I was about to wonder why Avardera would be bloackaded...but I guess continouing refering the Machta-in as Inveran could do that *smile sheepishly*
QuoteSo how would we get units (such as Andosen spearmen) added to the official list?
Fight More[/i]
The Machta-In has fought what, one battle? Two? And both were naval battles. It's conflict that spurs on military development.
But I hasten to add that new units are not better by definition. Andosen spearmen are not "elites," they're just differently equipped and trained, to the point where I felt the "Spr" designation didn't aptly describe their strengths and weaknesses anymore.
It's possible to get "elite" units - think Persian Immortals, or the Varangian Guard - but if you do get that kind of unit you'll generally only have one, it won't be something you can readily re-train.
Quote from: Holy Carp!QuoteSo how would we get units (such as Andosen spearmen) added to the official list?
Fight More[/i]
The Machta-In has fought what, one battle? Two? And both were naval battles. It's conflict that spurs on military development.
But I hasten to add that new units are not better by definition. Andosen spearmen are not "elites," they're just differently equipped and trained, to the point where I felt the "Spr" designation didn't aptly describe their strengths and weaknesses anymore.
It's possible to get "elite" units - think Persian Immortals, or the Varangian Guard - but if you do get that kind of unit you'll generally only have one, it won't be something you can readily re-train.
Ah. I was just wondering. I guess raiders probably fall under the same designation as most other troops. Hmm...
Quote from: Stargate525Wait, what?
Why would you blockade the Machta? You're still allowed in!
Which would make me look all the better.
He insulted my friend, and a trade partner. Also, it would be a show of solidarity between my people and yours, it would remove a player from Inner Sea trade, and since, as he mentions, one on one, he'd crush you, it'd merely heighten the "Inveran gets in trouble and I fix it" vibe I've been building with foreign powers. I'd have deliberately forsaken the potential for exploitation for the benefit of my allies and a rival.
On the other hand, if I let you blockade him, him destroy you, and then I destroy him, that would further strengthen my position, hence my dilemma.
Quote from: AllWillFall2Meit'd merely heighten the "Inveran gets in trouble and I fix it" vibe I've been building with foreign powers.
Huh? What the hell have you bailed me out of before that you didn't cause in the first place?
dark dealings are afoot...
awww man this game is so much fun
i seriously couldn't stop smiling the whole time i was typing things up
To this end, and considering the amicable relationships between our people, I request the hand of your son and heir, to be the Most Despotic Consort of Kuregn and to join our realms in personal union.
oh snap
Eyah... This is less than good.
you are so screwed
Quote from: Locknpop4lifeyou are so screwed.
Not really. Nothing has changed; Kuregn and the Machta are still allied, and it's still in Celend's best interests to keep me as a productive, alive, and contributing vassal.
Maybe. But Celend may have their own problems if Kuregn comes straight for them. I know I'm worried.
And if Kuregn goes straight for Celend, war WILL break out in the Middle Sea. Will. Definitely.
im gonna be gone for thirteen days. im leaving tomorrow
Ugh, I come home to discover I have two computers available to me, neither of which will reliably load this website, leaving me out of the loop.
Hopefully I can weasel something before the time's up.
Ah, I can write a set of orders for you.
one, The Free Captains surrender as an independant nation.
two, all land, properties, and population are to be given to Inveran...
..meybe not?
I have the same problem that AllWillFall2Me has. That is all.
Oh this update is going to be fun... Everyone's aligning themselves for war, but no one's yet touched off the fuse.
except in the north....as the famous qoute goes......the dices are thrown~
this might just be a make or break turn for Avardera and Narqag *sweatdrops*
And for the Inverness. And for the League, who're playing a SERIOUSLY dangerous game here. If Kuregn wins, or, heck, if Kuregn loses, the League still stands to lose out, because of its small territory.
Now I wish we had a die-rolling emote.
I don't think any of us know how this will turn out.
Well, I might.
Nope, not even you! YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
...Please don't penalize me...
I do, too. It was all revealed to me by the runes. Cannibal cabbage! Who saw that one coming?
I seem to have everything I need, so the update should be out in the next few days. Big changes ahead - at least one player nation gets annihilated ("at least" because the update isn't done yet!).
buh-buh-bah-duh, bah-buh-duh-buh-duh-buh-duh...
Buh, buh, bah-duh, bah, bah-duh bah-duh bah-duh.
My bets are on me or the League of Free Captains, although come to think of it, Inveran might fall too.
Hey, Kashtu is caught between Kuregn and Celend, we could be crushed like a circus peanut under an elephant's foot. (If they choose to...)
So the Machta did trigger the Machta-Inveran war? Huzzah.
My money's on Nargaq. Cause of Death, final push from the Auri and her allies.
That's my bet, too. Also, as the Auri fleet was by Andosen waters and we were attempting to aid the Nargaq, I read "At least one...I'm not done with the update" as mithy carp hasn't decided whether or not to have the Auri attack and destroy Andos. I didn't even think of the conflict between the other two empires...well, we shall all know soon enough...I like ellipses...
OOOOO...I'm on the edge of my seat...
aww, I hope Andosen gets out of this one alive....perhaps just getting thier fleet smashed to campfire wood. they are too nifty neighbours to have (even if they give poor Mea stress from time to time)
I'm really excited about this one though..especially because we know that PM's have been floating around~....no pun intended.
So the current votes are...
Nargaq - 2
Machta - 1
Kashtu - 1
Andos - 1
Free Captains - 1
And Inveran - 1. :P
It turned out to be just 1, though 2 if you count Arrania - I don't, as it's no longer a player state.
Really, though, Nargaq had a slim chance there. A powerful enemy, and not one but two allies who ended up switching sides.
Also, Inveran got favorable results on the ever-so-secret competence tables for the first time ever, much to the Machta's chagrin. Damnable named characters!
By the way, I release you from PM secrecy now - you can, if you want, talk about them. Most were made pretty obvious by the posted events, though.
And I don't know why anybody voted for Kashtu kicking the bucket - the last thing either side wanted to do was make more enemies. Kashtu might have had enough power to swing the direction of the war in one way or another. Now that the balance of power has shifted, however... Oops, I've said too much. More update to come in the next few days.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v220/stargate525/hammertime.gif)
Hey Carp, how fared my spearmen in the Auri stuff?
So basically we're back where we were before the war began?
Awesome, it's ongoing. :P
You. Will. Totally. DIE. ;)
I don't see why. My army's apparently large enough to hold you off my home territories until I've built some more boats, and we're pretty much back where we started. :P
Quote from: WensleydaleI don't see why. My army's apparently large enough to hold you off my home territories until I've built some more boats, and we're pretty much back where we started. :P
Thing is, your army won't stop me from simply blockading your harbors and killing off your ships one by one. Not to mention the total trade-stop that would put on your nation.
So I take it Inveran did not send spearmen to help Andos take Averra after all? Oh well, at least we tricked the Auri into thinking we were dead.
Quote from: amikaligulaSo I take it Inveran did not send spearmen to help Andos take Averra after all? Oh well, at least we tricked the Auri into thinking we were dead.
No, we didn't.
My spearmen were supposed to go help the Auri, although I didn't see them mentioned in the Nargaq siege block.
Gregor decided that his cause was best served by defending against the Machta; after all, it was entirely possible that Kuregn could send the other half of its fleet and any number of soldiers, especially after 217 when Celend sued for peace. Inveran assisted in the attempt to sneak men into Nargaq, but after that failed and Nargaq was crushingly defeated by the Auri and Avarderans it was decided that Invernessi aid was no longer necessary. The Auri contingent alone outnumbered Nargaq's defenders many times over.
Oh, yes, I understand. I was just making sure I was correct in that assumption. Heck, it's only luck and the ill-fate of the Arranians that saved Andos, anyway, not their strategy. They had never really been up against the Auri before Averra...
And on that note, about how many, if any, Andosen forces were able to escape? The war-chiefs were skeptical about the battle being worthwhile to begin with and were under orders not attack Averra's citizens, on the one hand. On the other, Andosens are not one to run from a fight, especially if fellow clan members are pinned down and cornered, and, as the citizens attacked first in their eyes, they would certainly have had no qualms in killing them any longer.
So what I can't conclude is whether or not the remnants of the Andosen fleet managed to break through the Avarderan's blockade here and there to bring detailed tidings of the battle.
The fleet itself did not suffer great losses; the Avarderan ships chased them away but were more interested in blockading the city than hunting down canoes. Of the warriors within the city, very few escaped, though they took many Avarderan townsmen and soldiers with them. There was simply nowhere to go. The King might have shown leniency to the few prisoners, but he was comatose, and the Avarderan soldiers were less concerned with showing mercy.
now that my nation has died can i make a new one?
Yep. Same procedure as last time. You should probably wait until the full update is out, however.
And no vengeance!
That, of course, goes without saying. No trans-civilizational memory! :)
This is going to be a really big update, as far as I can tell. It may not be finished until this weekend.
I'm actually considering starting a new nation as well - just so one side of the Invernessi conflict can be 'GM'-led.
If that be the case, can I just take it?
No. :P
Quote from: WensleydaleI'm actually considering starting a new nation as well - just so one side of the Invernessi conflict can be 'GM'-led.
If you want. Of course, given the personal union, in a turn or two you may be playing Kuregn.
*crosses fingers for turtles*
...
Kicks and giggles.
Since we're on the topic of beginning new states... we'll be seeing more of a map that is becoming much more crowded when the update comes out. I don't have a problem with players taking control of existing states, though some are "antagonist" NPCs that I am keeping around for the sake of the story (at least until somebody offs them).
Ones that I am willing to part with include Dol, Balan, Atamn, and the Nem-Ammar. As the east becomes more well known I might give away Etropahan, Cyrenahan, and so on. The point is that many of my NPCs are not sacrosanct, and if you're in need of a new state at some point we can probably work something out.
The update should be out at some point on Friday.
What about Celend? :P
(Joke, joke).
Yeah, I'm not giving them up yet. And eunuchs are unlikely to participate in royal marriages...
You can't play the Auri either, but you could play Atamn, which now has an Auri royal dynasty closely related to the Agah.
i, myself was thinking of playing something southwest of Otahvy, that i created.
Bwaha..I love how you played up the difference between Avarderas people and Avarderas ruler....the whole "for the people, but not off the people"
things are sure to be tense between Andos and Avardera now.....can't wait to play the kings son, now king, handling of this~
New update, so on, so forth. You know the drill - tell me if something is terribly wrong. You may now post to your little heart's content.
You are an evil, evil man. Or are checking if I'm one.
Finally, access to a newborn, possibly tamable giant turtle, and all I have to do is overpower an innocent tribe of turtle worshippers.
Potential Gain at the expense of others, or potential loss for the benefit of them.
sigh
As a question, how canny are the people of my nation? Given time, I personally could develop a con to get these turtles peaceably, but I don't know if they could, given their relative lack of education.
The League is basically a ruling class of seafarers over a fairly loosely controlled base of commoners; in many ways the League is the closest thing to a textbook "empire" of any state in this game. The ruling class ("ruling" doesn't mean they're all rich) of captains, navigators, sailors, and merchants is in constant contact between League settlements, but the League commoners of, say, Maducreon have absolutely nothing in common with the fishermen-pastoralists of the Whale Isle or the farmers of Norpost. It reminds me of, say, Carthage - very few of the total population of the empire was Punic (Phoenecian), but basically all the ruling class was.
That 70-90% of the League's population (the regional commoners) are not at all educated in any way, shape or form. As with most commoners at this time, virtually none are literate, and many may never have even seen writing before. They don't know much about what's outside their village.
Because of the League's broad trade links, its commoners are probably more exposed to goods and ideas from foreign lands than most commoners, but they may only dimly perceive the vast and complex economic and political network that makes these things available.
On the other hand, the ruling class is a bit more of a mixed bag. A sailor would probably not be literate or educated in anything more than sailing; that's all he has to do. A merchant would be more "canny," because he has to know foreign tongues, needs a basic grasp of writing (enough to do mathematics, at least), and has a better understanding of the world in general. Those kind of people, however, are a relatively thin upper crust of League society.
I wouldn't underestimate the abilities of a merchant class - they may not know calculus or game theory, but I don't think there's any doubt that I could be hoodwinked by a canny Phoenecian trader who came forward in time despite my college degree and his lack of one. Some things don't really change with the "advance" of civilization. :)
Of course, I try not to give out black-and-white dilemmas, and I wouldn't assume immediately that peaceable restraint and violent exploitation are your only options... indeed, assuming that what you want (taming turtles) is even possible at all.
Hmm. So we gained a pirate haven, and lost a weakling northerner island. In my opinion, that's a good trade. :P
Also, I can't wait to see how Kuregn progresses in the next update. The Despotissa's got a very interesting method of completely and utterly conquering other nations.
And I'm shocked. Inveran came out well in a conflict! That's just amazing.
I think we've got our first Jihad and Crusade going on here between Inveran and the Machta.
The question is, who will come out on top?
so, its impossible to ride lions into battle?
Some animals I can see being tamed... for example, check this out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3NueKXS6dk). Big carnivores, however, would be more likely to eat you than let you ride them. I mean, you can tame lions for a circus, but they're still dangerous - just ask Siegfried and Roy. I don't think riding lions is doable.
I think it has more to do with the instincts of the animal in such cases. Ever try and get a cat to do something it doesn't want to? Now make it bigger than you and less domesticated.
Though it could also be "innocence" on the part of the animal. One of my dogs frequently nips people because he forgets he can't lick you with his mouth open. When a cat swats his paw on your hand, it's cute. When a lion does, that arm is broken.
Turtles, on the other hand... ;P
I was reading an article on why it is that the big animals of Africa were never domesticated (with the single exception of the North African Forest Elephant, which is now extinct): Zebras, African Elephants, Hippos, Rhinos, etc.
The possible reason they gave was that humans had evolved around these creatures long before the advent of domestication, so those big animals knew us as hunters and predators long before they knew us as potential friends or sources of free food. I don't know how true that is, but it seems at least possible that, given a different evolutionary history, we could have zebra cavalry instead of horse cavalry.
I've also heard it suggested that horses in particular were probably domesticated as livestock, first - that is, for food. Only after that domestication did people consider that they might be useful to pull loads. After all, domesticating an animal just to stand in a pen and accept food is probably a lot easier than teaching it to be a useful draft animal and war steed.
Edit: But of course, there's always this:
[spoiler=Oh Snap]
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/WalterRothschildWithZebras.jpg)
[/spoiler]
then can i release armored lions into battle?
Well, yes, but there's not much of a guarantee that they would eat the enemy and not your men. They're probably more useful in controlled circumstances (like the Roman Coliseum, for instance).
ok
Well, I feel screwed. I mean, I didn't lose anything... unless you count the complete loss of coherent political unity. No faction in Kashtu has the power left to get anything done. This is going to be a bad turn.
So we stayed (mostly) out of the war, no one attacked us, yet we lost completely.
that oh snap pic made me laugh
hippos are big lazy freeloaders
I'm feeling dead in the water right now. I mean, usually I have plots within plots spinning, but right now I'm so busy with other stuff, and so...not at war, that I'm finding it hard to figure out what to do. (This does not mean I WANT war, Oh Holy one)
Everybody wants war. The problem is that nobody wants to lose at war!
To be fair though, any problems with Kuregn are problems the League brought upon itself - there's almost no way Yaffa could have fallen with the League fighting on Celend's side.
In times of slump, drastic changes are usually called for - just see snakefing's brand new military coup. Of course, it remains to be seen how that works out. :)
[spoiler=OH SHI-]
(http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/06_01/hippoSPL0706_468x297.jpg)
[/spoiler]
Ah well, that military coup may not even last until the next update. I haven't decided. For sure it won't be smooth sailing. There are factions in Kashtu that won't be pleased. If the military is gaining power, someone is losing it...
Quote from: Holy Carp!To be fair though, any problems with Kuregn are problems the League brought upon itself - there's almost no way Yaffa could have fallen with the League fighting on Celend's side.
Damn. I just figured that, between a nation run by eunuchs, and one who's leader was titled Despot, I should side with the one least likely to crush me under their boot should I cross them. Guess I overestimated their power.
I'm thinking of having a religious wave. Blending these new tribal beliefs with the teachings of Father Sea.
Well, "despot" didn't always have negative connotations - despotes simply meant "lord" in byzantine greek. It's similar to how "tyrant" used to mean an illegitimate, but not necessarily bad, ruler. I used it in that sense - an absolute monarch, but not necessarily a "despotic" one.
Haha, I knew that tidbit, but I read it the same way AllWillFall did. I live connotations, they just make everything more interesting.
If I get Nargaqi tunnelers, I think I might try starting up a sub race of dwarfs, or at least mountain-dwellers. So how's that coming, Mithy Carp? I know it won't be easy getting through somewhat hostile territory, but once there the messengers have designed it in such a way that phrases from when the Andos fought alongside the Nargaq will stick out and let them know Andos is still there while, hopefully, keeping the Auri in the dark by not mentioning Andos out and out.
I figured that was a venture best approached in the next update. I prefer to use the inter-update diplomacy for things that are relatively instantaneous (at least, relative to 25 year turns), like sending messages.
I'd keep in mind that Nargaq hasn't just been defeated, but destroyed. Many died in the wars with the Auri, and many more from subsequent starvation and disease. Many that remained assimilated into other local tribes or the Avarderan kingdom.
Of course, actually getting into Nargaq won't be terribly hard - the Auri hardly have the manpower to regularly patrol such an enormous stretch of land, and they don't even set foot - or wheel - in the highlands. The question is if you'll find anything left.
you know..that "Oh shi" picture gave me this mental image of tamed hippoes getting released to defend the vands in thier home territory. I mean..just imagien a group of spear men marching through and along marshes and swamps..then suddenly...a hippo, with corner teeths the sice of a mans fist, propelling it self out of the marsh and plowing through the ranks.
by the way, what's happening in Runethain now adays?
funny you should mention that Tillumni because thats my plan. exactly my plan actually hippos would be the ultimate defense
Just to be certain, the Anarvi are the people north of Stravam, right?
Well, at least one of the people. She may or may not speak for all of them.
Kuregn is either trying to trick me, or they are really desperate. Either way, it seems like a better idea to push back at them.
Where is Artash, anyway?
Considering that were it not for Celend and certain other minor factors, Kuregn could crush you like a flea on a whim, I think that was slightly over-the-top. :P
Umm, yeah, but remember, we're talking about the guy who led the military coup here. Diplomacy ain't his strong point.
True, true. Nor does self-preservation. On the other hand, my previous (or something) ruler was, shall we say, somewhat... insane? So I can't talk.
Jharviss has told me he needs to bow out of the game for now. Otahvy will now be NPC-controlled.
then Haphazzard needs a reply to one of his letters.
?
haphazzard is awaiting a reply from Otahvy, I think.
he is indeed.
So who will Othavy choose...
One does wonder.
Yes, by "Message sent north" I meant to Otahvy. I just didn't state it because my people didn't know who they were. Perhaps I could have put Otahvy up there and just not mentioned them in the message. Either way, that's who I was referring to.
This update should prove to be rather interesting, yet again. Inveran or the Machta must die, there's no longer any two-ways about that.
Or it could end up like last time... :P
I half suspect that the "snake-headed demons" are just the Andosen witches wearing their masks. But it is definitely something that would arouse the Cultusts of Svyorn's curiosity.
Andos is pretty damn awesome. Seriously, Amikaligula, ever since you started it I've wished I got there first. And the way you do the whole politics thing and convey the lack of unity amongst certain elements is awesome. Then again, if that happened in the Machta-In, enemies would crush it from all sides, so...
Quote from: WensleydaleOr it could end up like last time... :P
What, triple betrayal and homeside revolution? I doubt that.
No, I mean we both go against each other, ships are devastated, there's a victory for one side... but then it can't actually follow through on it. Like in the last turn, were it not for your competence roll, we'd've won - but you couldn't invade us, then. And then in the other turn, we smashed you, but then Sha'naa couldn't follow up on it either.
It wasn't that you couldn't have, it's that you decided not to. If you had followed up on the betrayal instead of giving us aid, Inveran would have been gone.
Celend would have crushed me, though.
Again, you could have, you just decided not to.
The lack of unity is more from centuries of isolation but for the other Vrenas inhabiting a relatively small area. They of course warred with each other over the resources and borders of their holdings for centuries. So, while it might seem like a formality when Andosens tell foreigners their Geethouse name ("Of Ovaytyes", for instance), it is actually quite significant culturally, as it tells if they made war with another Andosen's ancestors. This does not mean automatic hatred if this is the case, however. Much of Andosen culture, especially law, is based on shared sense of honor and dishonor. So when Vrenas war with each other, they are actually demonstrating Andos' unified philosophy and, so long as they stick to conventions, such as not executing hostages if demands are met, even obeying the law. The Vrenas can actually be quite unified, especially when serving as functionaries of the Ryvan-Holme, that council being the epitome of justice and unity in Andos. They are most united when it comes to unite against foreign interlopers. This dates back to one of the first Ryvan-Holme meetings, during a plague, when inhabitants of the eastern coast where trying to gain entrance to the Seven-Fjords area but where being refused as they where recognized as possible spreaders of the plague. Seen as foreigners, the easterners where driven back and the the Vrenas went back to disputing their borders and warring with each other, all the while helping each other patrol their easternmost frontiers.
I cannot wait till the next update, but I feel that way every update. Why do I have the feeling that Avardera and Andos are on the verge of war? Even with the reopening of trade, neither side seems pleased with the other.
Frankly, Ive lost interest of the conflict with the discovery of the easter realms. But as for the Strava...
I'm willing to listen to advice here, as I'm rather torn. On the one hand, she has more important concerns to the west and north, as she is consolidating power for Stravam, first and foremost. On the other, she might feel rather spurned by King Maes V, as he released her from her word, something in Andos usually reserved for those whose services you do not value. She is rather cooler than her mother, but she still has a temper, and an ever-inflating ego.
since you might had missed it, but the Atrava might not had, then if the Strava have even some amounth of interest in Avarderas politic, then she'll know that Meas V is the older brother of Meas IV, and that the only reason Meas V is regent, is because his younger brothers sons wasn't old enough. not sure how well I've managed shows, but frankly, Meas V isn't as good as dealing with people as his younger brother, being more an adminstrator type, which is why he didn't get first in the trials.
I could give some advice for how to deal with Avardera, but personally, then I'm more curious as to how you'll make use of the above knowledge.
check the spoiler if you want some though
[spoiler=tips] wait it out? let the old man die in his bed, and try to get his succesor to be more cooperative.
suggest some kind of even agreement in the waters between Andos and Avardera, where neither give up soveriegnity?
encourage trade by suggesting favorable rates, or organising cartel business with Avardera in what ever goods they both export and let that warm up the fronts?
[/spoiler]
it's really the classic dilemma of nobody wanting to leave them self at a disadvantage, after boths side percieved breach of trust.
Funnily enough, the Strava is in the same boat. She is more of a civil engineer than a politician. Indeed, she is not particularly popular among the Ryvalnya. Also, S travam is not known for their keen politics. She probably cares little for the politics of other lands. In fact, having never met the king face-to-face, she may very well assume he is a son of the last king. Or, come to think of it, she probably has no idea that it works that way, "succession"still being a rather alien term, having not worked its way into the Andosen mindset.
Whether her successor will try again with your successor has yet to be seen, I'm more trying to decide if the current Strava will turn relations between Avardera and Stravam sour or remain apathetic.
Yes, I know, "update now!" and all that. I've been working on some other projects right now, and I assure you we'll get there soon.
Not to be a, uh, 'nudge,' but...
Anyone have any guesses how this turn will end up?
Andos will ascend unto Heaven and be as gods, obviously. Is there any question about that?
On a more serious note, if there is anything I can do to help, mithy carp, just tell me. I mean, I have no investment in the south and probably won't for quite some time. Just putting that out there.
I'd just like to extend my apologies - I've had no time recently. I'm looking for work, and I've also been doing a great deal of campaign volunteering. The update has been half done for a while, and I'll go ahead and set a deadline for myself. I will to my utmost to produce the update by the end of Tuesday.
Okay, I actually need one more day.
oh the suspense is killing me...
So close...yet..so far!
I'm not 100% certain anymore, but what in God's green earth was my entire army doing in the lost lands instead of massing for a spearhead against the Machta's capital, like I ordered?
Wow, I was out of it that last round. I mean, forgetting to post final orders? Geez. Need to get my head back in the game.
Quote from: Stargate525I'm not 100% certain anymore, but what in God's green earth was my entire army doing in the lost lands instead of massing for a spearhead against the Machta's capital, like I ordered?
The Dragonlord was protecting his interests. Had the Lost Lands colonies fallen, Inveran would have been without any means to rebuild or expand its fleet. It was immaterial anyway, however, because the Machta won at sea; Inveran's army would not have been of any use there. The land battle was really only a sideshow; everybody knew it was the sea battle that mattered, and Inveran happened to lose.
It's just that I find it a tad bit implausable that a single sea battle screwed Inveran over.
Quote from: Stargate525It's just that I find it a tad bit implausable that a single sea battle screwed Inveran over.
As much as I would like to regale you with the tales of each and every engagement of every protracted war, I have neither the time nor the ability. You will, as in most games, have to settle for some level of abstraction.
On the other hand, some single naval engagements were (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_trafalgar) decisive (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Salamis), especially in this case where the total navy of Inveran probably only amounts to a few hundred men.
Your orders in particular were to skirmish and avoid pitched battle save under certain circumstances; it would be impractical for me to detail those skirmishes, especially considering that your state is just one of many and my updates are page-long attempts to cover 25 years of history.
Additionally, you are not necessarily out of Inveran. I'm willing to allow you to continue as either of Inveran's successor states, Numenas or Ilneress, though neither controls much territory and they would both prove a challenge. Or, you could pick an entirely new state.
aww man this update was an emotional roller coaster for me
I'm taking Numenas and Dragonlord Gregor II.
INVERAN WILL CONTINUE!
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to grovel to heathen eastern nations...
Just noticed this; Cine the Machta-in just absorbed the majority of a nation that was nearly 100% Dragon Saints Worshipers, what happened to them? None of 'em show up in the Machta's statblock.
Oh, yes. I was wondering about that. I mean, the Machta might have force-converted them, but then, it would've been mentioned, right? And I doubt people would be particularly happy about that either.
The point is noted and the stats will be corrected accordingly.
Ooh, stargate! Wily, you are.
A Questionnaire
With the coming of our 10th update, I thought it would be an appropriate time to step back and examine what we're doing, where we're going, and what you'd like to see next. I have a few questions for you, if you'd like to answer them. Of course, these are just prompts, and if you have other feedback I'd be happy to hear it and talk about it.
About TWAD
1. What do you think of the stats/rules? Would you prefer them to be more detailed/complex, or more free-form? Where do you think the stats/rules are weak, and where are they strong (e.g. military, religion, trade, and so on)?
2. How is my level of interference and control? Would you rather I do more (unexpected) things with your states, or act as more of a rule arbiter?
3. What do you think of the game setting? TWAD tries to be more realistic, avoiding anachronisms and being sparing with the fantasy. How would you change it?
4. 25 year turns - too much time to develop characters, too little time to advance technologically, what?
About the Future
1. What kind of settings would you like to see in a future forum game (iron age, medieval, modern, high fantasy, post-nuclear apocalypse, colonization, historical scenario, sci-fi, and so on)?
2. Would you be interested in starting a new and different game soon, or continuing TWAD (understanding that I can't reasonably GM more than one of these)?
3. I've been thinking about running a "senatorial" forum game, where instead of everyone running their own state, players roleplay people/factions/families of a single state and vote on that turn's orders. This would theoretically encourage more roleplaying and diplomacy while lessening the workload for everyone (you only have to produce one set of orders, and I only have to process one set of orders). What do you think of that?
Thanks!
Hmm. I actually think TWAD is perfect as it is. You don't interfere too much, whilst allowing for changes within states not written in by the leaders. As for the future, I love TWAD myself, but senatorial could also be... interesting. Although JUST voting wouldn't be as good. The idea of 'families' within a state (or groups, or parties - hell, it could be a modern soviet ex-satellite state in the style of Novistrana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novistrana)), with orders being along the lines of 'search for talent', 'canvass suburbs', or even 'assassinate political opponent' would be very interesting.
... actually, I'm considering doing a game like that now.
Quote from: WensleydaleOoh, stargate! Wily, you are.
Why thank you. ;)
Quote from: Holy Carp!1. What do you think of the stats/rules? Would you prefer them to be more detailed/complex, or more free-form? Where do you think the stats/rules are weak, and where are they strong (e.g. military, religion, trade, and so on)?
I like how the stats are relatively simple, although I'm having difficulty equating, say, a prosperity of 4 to real-world examples. That's really the only weakness I see.
Quote from: Holy Carp!2. How is my level of interference and control? Would you rather I do more (unexpected) things with your states, or act as more of a rule arbiter?
I think it's just right.
Quote from: Holy Carp!3. What do you think of the game setting? TWAD tries to be more realistic, avoiding anachronisms and being sparing with the fantasy. How would you change it?
I could do with a little bit more insertion of the unusual, along the lines of the turtles and the hot air balloons; I don't want wizards running about by any means.
Quote from: Holy Carp!4. 25 year turns - too much time to develop characters, too little time to advance technologically, what?
I like the 25-year turns. I think we'll be due for a large skip sometime soon, but for play, 25 years seems good.
Quote from: Holy Carp!1. What kind of settings would you like to see in a future forum game (iron age, medieval, modern, high fantasy, post-nuclear apocalypse, colonization, historical scenario, sci-fi, and so on)?
sci-fi colonization. New solar system, dozens of planets, hundreds of moons, and factions fighting for them.
Alternatively, there was a game called 'evolution' on a different forum that was alot of fun. It's alot like the senatorial one you propose, except we decide the development and evolution of a species.
Quote from: Holy Carp!2. Would you be interested in starting a new and different game soon, or continuing TWAD (understanding that I can't reasonably GM more than one of these)?
TWAD MUST NEVAH DIE!
Quote from: Holy Carp!3. I've been thinking about running a "senatorial" forum game, where instead of everyone running their own state, players roleplay people/factions/families of a single state and vote on that turn's orders. This would theoretically encourage more roleplaying and diplomacy while lessening the workload for everyone (you only have to produce one set of orders, and I only have to process one set of orders). What do you think of that?
I'm not keen if it means TWAD dies. If you run them both, I'd certainly participate.
TWAD
1.I think that later on down the road, the 1-10 scale for the stats might cause some problems. I would rather have a point system based on accomplishments. For instance, it makes sense in the current system that Avardera's construction of their great road conferred +1 to infrastructure. Yet, when comparing the stats, it seems iniquitous that this is no more than Andos' expanded goat trails. It seems to me that it would be better to just use a point system rather than a scale.
2.I think you are doing absolutely great with your level of control: I don't feel stifled and I still can't predict what will happen from one update to the next.
3.Again, I think you are doing great. While I would like a little bit more fantasy elements in the game, I see how it might present balance issues in the game.
4.Like you said, too little and too much. I cannot suggest any better time frame. What I do suggest is mini-updates for important events, such as battles and natural disasters and important discoveries. By mini-update I mean summarizations as opposed to full stat updates. In fact, I would suggest holding the stats of a battle until the actual update and instead give something like the following:
[spoiler=Y-affiliated nations]Y had a magnificent victory over X in the battle of Z, all but completely destroying the armies of X. Join us in the spoils of war as we make the final press![/spoiler]
[spoiler=X-affiliated nations]Y overcame our forces as the wind was against us. So we had to withdraw, but our forces will still triumph.[/spoiler]
Or even send the players involved a PM and let them state it as they wish. Although this would primarily concern only pc related nations, major battles "heard around the world" should also be recorded here, as well as the year they happened, which would give an estimate of how long until the next update.
Future
1.I'm not to fond of the colonization idea, as it seems that if it was to be good, there would be more like running a business simulation. I'm not too fond of the historical scenario either, but aside from those two, I think they all sound good.
2.I would like to continue with TWAD
3.I actually really liked Stargate's precursor to "colonization" ("noble war"?), especially the idea of having a certain number of agents in the beginning. That could be very fun and interesting, though the long-run complications of having a lot of agents and an extended family should be considered.
Hmm. Tell me, how many of you would be interested in joining if *I* ran a relatively modern game based around the ideas I mentioned before?
I'd still play TWAD, and if I staggered my updates with Mith's, it could mean we'd have something to do a lot of the time.
I think I would, though I wouldn't be sure until you fleshed it out a little bit more.
Hmm. Let's say I created a fictional eastern-european, perhaps ex-soviet, state controlled by some form of dictator, inside which you could create factions (ranging from Mafiya groups to political parties etc) which would influence politics there. This is of course just an example - I'd be willing to create any kind of state, within a fictional or non-fictional world. You could try to influence politics, get rich, assassinate the president or even ascend to the presidency yourself, and your group could range from a single character to a multinational organisation (foreign embassies, anyone?). If it was democratic (or if you managed to make it a democracy) you would have a say in the running of the country. This would not necessarily be the aim, however.
Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I was also thinking of adapting a "faction" approach, similar to Noble War, to a senatorial game.
When I used to run these on other forums, I came up with a few ideas that I never put into play. One of them that I was thinking about using here was a senatorial factional game, where each player represents a prominent family within a city-state on a major trade route, like a fictional Silk Road, with the local culture drawing from high medieval China and central Asia. Each family would run their own affairs and have one member on the ruling council with one vote.
The inherent problem with senatorial games is that they are only enjoyable for all so long as they remain republican; a Julius Caesar ruins the game for everyone else, because it's not a cooperative game anymore if one player becomes dictator and sends the rest to Siberia.
I would caution you about modern era games - they tend to be very difficult to run and play, thanks to 1) the complexities of modern technology and politics, 2) the high degree to which players understand those complexities from their first-hand experience, and 3) goddamn nuclear weapons, which have prematurely ended more forum games than I could possibly recall.
Though I said I could only run one of these, I was considering a senatorial game because in theory it wouldn't take as much work on my part.
Ahh yes. Nukes.
However, there are, as we have recently seen, strong deterrents towards soviet satellite states acquiring nuclear weapons (that is, the fact that Russia will point THEIR nukes at them if they're given american ones). So.
I'm not trying to discourage you, I'm just saying that when the greatest possible loss is losing a forum game, the nuclear option tends to be a great deal more attractive, especially when you're already losing and feel like a graceful defeat is too underwhelming. Interpret that however you see fit. :)
it might be interesting to have an alternate history where nuclear physics has never been put to use as a weapon, resulting in several possibilities:
a)While the U.S. did eventually beat the Japanese, it was far bloodier than deploying the a-bomb and resulted in an easy victory by a war of attrition on the part of the Soviet Union. Which potentially means that much of the world was a soviet state at one time.
I dunno about that. I think carpet-bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki would have done the same thing.
No, not really. Even though the A-bomb did massive structural damage, it was the psycological damage that caused the Japanese to give up. When your family jumps into the river to get away from your flaming house, but ends up getting boiled alive instead, you re-think the whole "to the death" ideal. Or how about when you look over to the person next to you and his face has literally melted off his skull? You don't quite get that effect from a carpet bombing.
QuoteI'm not to fond of the colonization idea, as it seems that if it was to be good, there would be more like running a business simulation.
It might just be my odd idea of "fun," but I think that would be pretty sweet actually. Don't think there isn't politics in business. Especially if one or two businesses are on the black market...
Quote from: HaphazzardQuoteI'm not to fond of the colonization idea, as it seems that if it was to be good, there would be more like running a business simulation.
I could certainly angle at least a part of the game towards that, sure. Hell, I'd HAVE to if we were going to make a 'vaguely' realistic political scenario in the state I was envisioning.
i am unable to continue to take part in TWAD.f You may do waht u like w/ artash.
Ok Atlantis, thanks for telling me.
oi, just want to give my apoligice and a heads up that I'll start posting and replaying starting tomorrow, just been abit busy up untill now.
sorry about the lack of heads up.
i like TWAD the way it is, but i understand the workload and if you wanna change i will still hang around
Not gunna lie, I love the figures for the military units.
Quote from: HaphazzardNot gunna lie, I love the figures for the military units.
Most of them are either directly from or based off of graphics made for Civ2 by Fairline, a particularly talented Civ2 icon artist. I have basically his entire "collected works" on my hard disk from my Civ2 days and thought they would add a nice touch. :)
[ooc]Announcement!
As noted in the main thread, orders are due on Monday. More importantly, we're entering a fast update stage, where I will attempt to update weekly (more or less).
What's happening is that we are eventually moving towards a "time skip." We'll end the first chapter of TWAD and resume at a later time frame.
This begs a few questions. First of all, I want to know your preferences for a time frame - I'm thinking early Iron Age, but I'm open to other suggestions.
Secondly, I want to know what you want to do about the time progression. I want to strike a balance between continuity and creativity: if I make the map a blank and let everyone make states from scratch, there will be no continuity with the original TWAD. On the other hand, if I extrapolate all the states in depth and present you with a finished world, you won't have much room to be creative and make your own states.
One thing I have considered is that the "second chapter" will coincide with the first "age of cavalry," where cavalry finally eclipses the chariot and nomadic horse archers gain the upper hand. I could give every player a choice - assume control of an existing settled state, or create a nomadic group from scratch that would have the option of settling later.
I am, as ever, open to suggestions.[/ooc]
Hmm. I think both Celend and Kuregn would be crumbling by that point, if one hasn't already defeated the other in battle. So.
Personally, I think I'd be more in favor of continuity over creativity. As long as there are things happening or things to do in the world, there is plenty of room for creativity. There just needs to be enough scope for people to do things and impact the course of history.
I'm confused. I assumed that you'd simply continue the world based on our orders (more general for the longer time period, of course). Clearing the world doesn't make sense. I would also think the default would be to continue playing the nations we currently control, or their later reincarnations.
I agree with stargate in my assumptions. However, the problem with this is that, realistically, some of our nations, if not most, will not exist anymore...so perhaps we should focus on reincarnating our distinctive cultures?
If that makes sense. What I'm trying to point out is that maybe we could preserve the cultures we've created, if not the lands (as that might not be particularly realistic). Perhaps the focus in our orders should be more on reincarnation or even having the option of starting from scratch?
I think many of the nations could be the same. Remember, this isn't reality, so we can bend the timeframes of existing nations in many respects. Also, late early bronze to middle iron is just over a thousand years. If you look at culture, it's not that huge of a gap.
First I'll draw on a bit of precedent -
Despite the part of the stats that say "early bronze age," we're getting into the middle bronze age. With chariots, you might say we're already there. The jump in "earth time" would still be long, 600-800 years or so.
If we compare a map of the Mediterranean in about 1600 BC with 1000 BC, however, we see a lot of similarities. Egypt is still around. The Hittites are gone, but their cultural descendents, the "neo-Hittites," have arisen. The Thracians have expanded into northern Anatolia. Babylon is still around. Elam has formed a state; the Greeks have expanded. Newcomers have also arrived on the scene. The later map is different from the earlier one, but there is a clear link - one proceeds from the former, and many cultures have survived.
Of course, I'm open to suggestions, and if you'd rather have a shorter jump we can do that. It's up to you.
I don't really want to clear the map either, I was just expressing the problem inherent to extrapolation, which is that I end up doing a lot with states because of the long time period.
I'm okay with plenty of extrapolating. It stands to reason that some of the existing states will still exist, others will be swallowed up, and so on. The map of the "known world" might expand a bit...
Perhaps once the extended history of the period is posted, people might have an option to continue the country/culture they had before, if it still exists, or to take up as a newcomer.
We will be able to give final, borad orders, right? To nudge how we want our nation te develop?
Snakefing, that's basically what I was thinking. If a state in Chapter 2 is a more-or-less direct descendant of a Chapter 1 state, it will be given a "reservation," meaning that a player of the original state gets first dibs if they want it. If they don't, the reservation goes away and anyone can take it.
Stargate, I'm a little hesitant to accept "long term" orders, as ancient Babylon didn't really have a 100-year plan (or a 800 year plan, for that matter). Government just doesn't work that far in advance, and people can't think that far ahead. I would prefer to extrapolate from your short term orders - the decisions you have already made and the ones you are still making will influence the final result. You have been "nudging" since turn 1. :)
I'm beginning to think that a skip to the middle/late bronze age would be more appropriate; think 3-4 hundred years rather than 6-8.
Quote from: Holy Carp!I would prefer to extrapolate from your short term orders - the decisions you have already made and the ones you are still making will influence the final result. You have been "nudging" since turn 1. :)
I'm not saying a unified plan, I'm saying more of a 'state of direction.' For example, if I were giving broad orders for ancient babylon, I'd say 'land grab and build an empire,' Romans would be the same, Great Britain in the 1300-1800s would be 'increase trade and build naval power,' etc.
It's more reliable than extrapolating the orders which, at least for me, are a bit chaotic, and since I'm considering taking a rather different tact with Numenas than Inveran...
That works for me.
I am fantastic at choosing poor times to walk away for a weekend. Though in my defense, I was on a bus from Friday-Sunday.
I like Stargate's line of thought.
If you post orders before I'm finished with the update, I'll include them.
Despite our hopes for weekly updates, I must delay this update by a few days for personal reasons.
don't worry too much, we know you try your best, just get the personal stuff sorted out first, neh?
No, we insist that TWaD comes FIRST! :P
In seriousness, do we have an ETA?
The update will be up before I go to bed. The map, probably tomorrow.
oh you fiend... And here I thought I was going to be able to turn in early...
Update done, map will come tomorrow, give me any corrections as usual!
Yeah...
Where is Numenas? :cry:
Yeah, I just noticed that! You got lost in the cut and paste. I'll post Numenas when the map goes up later today.
Map posted, post away.
I feel like a bother, but did anything come of the expedition I sent Eastward?
Yes, I've been waiting for this all day. Literally the only reason I got up this morning (other than classes and food).
Quote from: Stargate525I feel like a bother, but did anything come of the expedition I sent Eastward?
Well, it was conducted, but nothing notable came of it. The eastern border of Xukhia ends at the foothills of the "Black Veil," a tremendous mountain range home to a particularly warlike mountain people. It was of little interest to the merchants of Numenas.
aha. Thank ye.
And I suppose, likewise, nothing developed out of trying to capture Hayar ships?
Believe it or not, I only just now noticed this game occuring xD
It looks amazing, I don't suppose there's room for me to join at this late stage?
shame on your for not being observant! :P
Yes, yes, shame on me, I suck, et cetera... But... Can I join? :D
Quote from: amikaligulaAnd I suppose, likewise, nothing developed out of trying to capture Hayar ships?
It happened occasionally, and perhaps minor improvements were made, but there was no resultant discovery important enough to note.
Quote from: KindlingYes, yes, shame on me, I suck, et cetera... But... Can I join? :D
Well, we're not too far from ending this chapter - there may be only a few turns left before we fast-forward a few hundred years and start a new one. That said, if you still are interested in playing these few turns, I have no objections.
Maybe I should wait for the next chapter... How long might that take?
Not sure. Given that updates seem to take about 1-2 weeks and we'll probably go through at least another 2 or 3, possibly a month.
If you'd like to play in this chapter, go ahead and PM me your prospective state, or ask any questions you have here or by PM.
Which reminds me...
[ooc]Announcement
Despite the delay in the last update, we are still in fast update mode! Your orders are due next Tuesday.[/ooc]
well, here's my prospective state... tell me if I've done anything wrong, Im not sure if I understand correctly...
Name: Zorvia
Government: Theocracy. Power lies with the Sacred Council, made up of the 13 Matriarchs and Patriarchs. Administration and local government are handled by the lesser clergy.
Religion: Zorvian Dualism is the belief in the sibling-deities Tysk and Usk, the first representing the sky, and the latter embodying earth and the sea.
Culture: Zorvians are principally shepherds, and move with their flocks. As such, there are no static settlements, but rather tent-towns that move with the seasons.
The exception is the Sacred Keep, a fortress-cathedral at the heart of the land, which houses the Sacred Council and their attendants.
Horses are rare in Zorvia, but camels are commonplace, employed both as mounts and pack-animals. In fact, the Zorvian nation relies on them so much, it would probably collapse without camels.
Plant-pots are widely used to create easily-transportable herb gardens, allowing the Zorvians to add a variety of different flavourings and sauces to an otherwise repetitive diet of mutton and sheep's-cheese.
This also allows them to have a constant supply of dye-producing plants on hand, resulting in an abundance of brightly-coloured clothes.
The arts are highly prized by Zorvians, but theatre as such does not exist in their culture. However, poetry, music, painting, sculpting, storytelling, and many more are widely practised in Zorvia.
Location: Imagine a triangle, with Celend, Beitar and Nem-Ammar as the points. Roughly in the centre of this triangle, lies Zorvia.
As for other questions... well, perhaps a tad more clarity on how the orders work?
That all looks fine to me. You can go ahead and post that in the main thread.
The orders are just a concise, out-of-character way to sum up the things you want to do. Ideally they should be a "concentrate" of your in-character stories and posts, but it's alright to put things in your orders that aren't mentioned IC (as everybody does).
The point of the orders is to make things easy for me. I skim through the thread whenever I'm making the update, but it helps to have all the OOC info in once place so I don't miss anything important.
Because your state isn't on the map yet and doesn't have stats yet, your orders for the first turn should remain rather vague (for instance, military orders are hard to do when you don't know your military units yet). Once your stats are up (when this coming update is posted) you can get more specific.
Cool cool, I shall post it, and my first IC-ness. When should I do my first set of orders? Straight away or what?
Doesn't matter, as long as they're in by the due date. I don't read them until the due date anyway, so you can post them now and edit them, or wait to post them until later.
hey guys my life is swamped right now so i have to drop for a bit. the play im in just started running and between that and school my schedule is full. I hope to be back relatively soon though. if it isn't too much trouble
eheh, small heads up, due to being busy must of today, then I gotta post final orders wednesday, hope you don't mind and sorry for any trouble it causes.
Not a problem.
Update posted!
What of my attempts to build a road suitable for chariots to link mainland Andos to the Sorghedai?
That is a project still under construction. It was hampered somewhat by Hayrine raids into Andosen lands in the east.
Yeah, yeah, I know. I'm in the process of getting a new job right now, which takes a lot of my time. Not to worry, I haven't forgotten you!
Don't worry dude, personal life definately takes precidence over the game.
...?
Quote from: Stargate525...?
Can I use the bad economy in my defense?
Look, I haven't forgotten about you all or this game, but I really have commitments right now that require my time. Updating is a big investment of my time and right now it just isn't a priority. I'm sorry I can't give you more concrete deadlines here, but things just don't work like that.
I appreciate your patience. I'll let you know when things change and I'm able to put some time here and into this community in general.
No you can't, we understand completely, we forgive you, and thank you.
Just glad to see you haven't dropped off the face of the earth, ya know.