The Campaign Builder's Guild

[spoiler=Ashkardia]http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?41732 (//Ashkardia)[/spoiler]

While I am trying to give my own setting some meat on the bones, I am still not sure which rule system I should use for it.
I have not yet found a system with which I am happy - our local matador of RPG, DSA would be impossible to adjust (or at least that would be much too much work, and I'm not that happy with the system in the first place) and I have not yet found a system that really fits to the moot and atmosphere I want for Ashkardia. The system should support (support, not only allow) a game with low magic, gritty realism and a high number of different species.

Now, we have the usual suspects:
I could use D20, I guess, but I have to change it in several ways.
Advantages of D20: Well, it's D20. It's like the standard game system, most people know the rules, there are as lot of people who know it and play it and there is plentiful of materiel. And the basic mechanics are pretty simple.
The disadvantages are also big: First, I think that classes and levels are a drawback for a modern RPG and should be avoided - I prefer smoother character advancement and more flexible design options. Than there are some problems with the combat system, that is too abstract for the more medieval and gritty feeling that Ashkardia should have, and I would have to completely rework the magic system. A lot of work, and I am not sure if this work pays off.

The second option would be GURPS. I like Gurps, and I think it is quite easy to make it fit into most settings, but I have always preferred it for more modern settings; the system is very exact and scientific in its rules and that is not really an advantage for a medieval themed game. The other problem is that Gurps is not really a system on it's own - it's a tool kit to create an own system, which means: It will also a lot work to make it fit - especially for the magic.

Unisystem is one of my personal favourites - it's the game mechanics behind games like All Flesh Must Be Eaten or Witchcraft, both excellent games and a system that is like a compromise between D20 and Gurps rules; I particularly like the magic system and I wouldn't have to change that much.
On the downside, I have learned that there is not enough character variety in Unisystem- after a while, PC's start to resemble each other more and more. This is especially a disadvantage when I start to create the templates for the numerous different species in Ashkardia - there is just not enough variety to make them unique without making the single members one trick pony stereotypes. The other downside is the relative rarity of the system - a lot less people know the rules of unisystem than for the two previous games.

The last system I found in my archives and that seemed fitting was Harnmaster - like for the Unisystem it wouldn't be much work to adjust the game rules as they are to the setting (apart from creating the species templates and ignoring the unnecessary parts like divine intervention) and the moot and really gritty system would fit perfectly into Ashkardia. The magic system would not really be like how I imagined Ashkardian magic in the first place, but
it would be adaptable.
The disadvantages of Harnmaster are various - first, the system is very gritty, perhaps a bit too gritty for a lot people. It is also not very wide spread, and since it is more complex than most systems, it's not easy to explain to new players. And there is no such thing as balance in that game. A character's abilities are mostly based on luck and some good rolls at character creation makes vast differences between character power; likewise, ability adjustments for more powerful species comes without any drawbacks, meaning that a mixed group will be per se imbalanced.

What system would you prefer and/or suggest? I'm really grateful for your assistance.
 
 

I personally believe that it is a mistake many world designers make is just taking a game system that they like or use and then creating a seting that is not matched to it at all.  
Let me ask a few questions...
How lethal do you want the game to be?  Do you want a sword blow to have a chanve to threaten a beginnign charanter?  Do you want that same blow to  have some effect aon a character that has been played for 10 sessions?  for 20 sessions?
what relative threat level do you want large or gigantic creatures to be relative to that beginning character?  the 10 session character?  The 20 session character?  
Speaking of advancement, in most basic terms, how fast do you want the PC's to advance compared to the power level of NPC's in the world?
I understand the term low-magic, but what kind of people cast spells?  what type of spells are cast, and how do they match up with the system?
Sorry if it is painful, but I don't want to give advise without asking the pertinent questions...
 

Quote from: LordVreegHow lethal do you want the game to be?  Do you want a sword blow to have a chanve to threaten a beginnign charanter?  Do you want that same blow to  have some effect aon a character that has been played for 10 sessions?  for 20 sessions?

Speaking of advancement, in most basic terms, how fast do you want the PC's to advance compared to the power level of NPC's in the world?[/quote]I understand the term low-magic, but what kind of people cast spells?  what type of spells are cast, and how do they match up with the system?[/quote]

Magic is rare and limited to those who are born with it and trained in the Arts; those who are born with the gift but not train it, become intuitive magicians, who only know a habndful of spells. Those with a weak Gift, the vast majority of spellcasters, become hedge mages or local sages; only a very small minority which are born with a stromng Gift and who are trained from early on become powerful magicians.
Most people will live their whole life without recognizing a true wizard.
There is no divine magic or other supernatural powers that come from deities or other powerful beings; magic comes from within (there are still spellcasting priests though, but they are just priests who happen to be spoellcasters as well).
Magic is rare. Magic is powerful, but it is not unfailable - iron is essentially antimagic and offers protection and magic needs its time - while it is possible to do almost anything with magic, it needs its time and powerful spelll need several hours or days to be casted.
Dependant on the society, wizards are hated and persecuted or revered and worshipped.

MMMmmm.
Really good answers.  I had almost the exact same issues, except that low level magic is common, but high level magic is extrememly rare. That took a while to work out...and I need to tell you that with very, very similar issues, I could not find a system that got close to what I wanted...so I had to build my own from the ground up.
And don't worry about the commonality of your system; if the setting is worth it and memorable, they will play.  I have a waiting list on both my groups and my online game, and we don't use a published system (I think we're technically a cult, when I think about it).

So I am going to extrapolate a few things here, based on what you have said.
d20 has too many opposites from the way you want to go.  I think this one breaks what you and I both agreed on in that the game you want to run is an extremely poor fit, in terms of development, in terms of 'common threat level' (that 1-3 sword blow bit), magic, the importance of size, class versus skill based...you'll end up very frustrated.

You'll need to go with a low-hp setting, and one that emphasizes the protective value of armor.  Whether it is the larger creature damage, or surviving multiple blows, it sounds like you need a system where the choice to wear heavier armor is based on how often a person expects to get hit.  Which is why our real knights and warriors wore armor...

It aslo sounds like you'd prefer a system that gives more weight to rewarding how the characters are played versus too much advantage of s few lucky rolls.  Sounds to me like i'd take the Harnmaster and add more skills and even out the initial generation, at least based on the feeling you are giving me.  It sounds like all the systems will need some revamping, but that one needs less revamping based on play and more revamping based on character generation/developemnt.

Yesterday I tried a test round of Harnmaster with my old hometown group. They hated it, and they hated it thoroughly. The system is too deadly and too complicated and, and this is why they hated it that much, it is too detailed making it even more cluttered.

I discussed it with them and we came to the conclusion that Harnmaster is probably not the right system for us - to much bookkeeping, too much blah and detail. Seriously, I like stuff like hit tables and rules for wounds and blood loss. But Harnmaster is too detailed and too inflexible for my taste.

Therefore this will not do it for me. Ashlkardia should be more accessable.
And, since I have new material since ...err... tomorow, I think I will try to create a specific Ashkardia D20 System, which will include the features of other, more low fantasy D20 settings and systems such as Conan, A Game of Thrones and Midnight.

My greatest problem will be the magic system, but thanks to my friends, i think I have found a basic frame for this that will fit into what I think works well for Ashkardia.  

I understand. Really, I do.  I haven't played Harnmaster for years and years, but I remember the pure inertia of some of it.

So are you going to go Vancian with the spells or with a mana/spell point system?
Spell recovery in a day or flexible?
Different mana types or single?

I am brainstorming about it right now.
Right now I'm mostly orienteering on the spellchanneling rules of Midnight - I will get rid of the vancian magic system and replace it with a more fitting spell point system. Additionally, spell casting will effort a Concentration check to be successful...
And there is more, but it's quite ripe yet.

How about the HERO system?  Yes it's an accounting hassle, but you get slow but steady advancement, farmers with rusty knives will remain a threat for a while, and magic will be tough to build as the points to build with are fewer and the points needed to build something are 3-4 sessions worth.  I haven't checked out the most recent edition of it but when my group used it, we thought it was the most flexible, imagination supporting and broadest system we've ever played.  It is also the most number-crunching intensive, nit-picky game we've played.

What is the great difference between Hero and Gurps? As far as I know, both systems are quite similar  - so what is the point of Hero when I have already most of the Gurps books?

Maybe you've got some cash to burn?

If GURPS just ain't precise enough, HERO is about 1,000 times more exacting in terms of nailing down the specifics of mechanics, powers etc..  I think that would be it's selling point.  Mechanically, power balance wise, it is very solid. If you can stand some game mechanics intruding on the roleplaying and don't mind the work it takes to manuver the system, go with HERO.

If you want a 'plug and play',easy to teach, roleplay friendly system, then GURPS is the one.  Especially if you've got a bunch of the books already.

I like them both, but I do prefer HERO because of the mechanics.  Not to everyone's taste, just my two cents.

Thanks, 'll have a look at HERO when I have the possibility.

After a long and hard brainstorming I found the followinfg set of rules for Ashkardia D20:


1.: Paths
Originally, I wanted to use Gestalt rules, but since the number of available base classes in the campaign is more limited and I am not willing to see characters who have both an activator level and full casting, I dismissed the idea. Instead, there are paths. Every character chose one path during character creation, which gives him several additional abilities or features when he advances in level. Unlike a class, a path cannot be changed and most path features are less significant than class features. The whole path stuff is very similar to the bloodlines found in UA, but I have stolen borrowed the from the excellent midnight campaign setting.

2.: Ability scores
There are two fixed settings of ability scores for Player characters. Every player chose one of the settings and distribute the scores as ever he wants.
Score One: 18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8
Score two: 16, 14, 14, 12, 12 10
Ability modifiers per race are distributed afterwards.

3.:Hitpoints
A character's hitpoints are not determined by rolling any dice. Instead, a fixed and somewhat lower amount of hitpoints every level. The starting amount of hitpoints does not change. The Constitution bonus is still added to the gained amount of hitpoints per level. A D4 conforms to 1 hitpoint/level, a D6 2 etc.

This also applies to all kinds of monsters, but for them, hit dice are scaled by size (larger creatures are tougher than smaller ones). I'm not sure if the hitpoints of PC's should also be scaled by size.

4.: Defense
There is no AC. Instead, there is a defense bonus based upon either the BAB or the Reflex Save plus the dexterity bonus. This Bonus is added to a normal roll, like a Save where the attack roll is the DC. Shields, Dodge and Deflection bonus increases the defense. Armor, however, does not.

Defense:
BAB or Reflex Save +Dexterity + other Bonus (e.g. Shields)+ Size Modifier+D20

Flatfooted: When caught flatfooted, only half the Defense bonus is applied to the Defense check.

Touch Attack: Touch attacks give a flat +4 bonus to hit.

5.: Armor
Armor gives Damage Reduction. So does natural armor and all stuff, which is not better suited to give a defense bonus.

6.: Classes and Races
All races are a bit stronger (roughly equivalent to a former LA+1 race) to allow a broader bandwidth of traits, and while classical melee classes are improved, most spellcasters are somewhat nerfed)(but rarely to an amount that would make them significantly weaker). Especially dead levels were hunted and are now nearly extinct, as well as alignment restrictions. Ashlkardia will use the classes presented in the Tome of Battle.

7.:Spellcasting
Instead of a fixed number of spellslots, spellcasters get a number of spellpoints which can be distributed among his or her spells. This is described en detail in the main thread.

8.: Damage Steps and Wounds
The more a character is injured the harder it gets for him to fight on. There are for different damage steps which brings penalties to all throws, checks and saves (including damage)  based upon the relation of total hitpoints to suffered damage.

Damage Steps/Penalties
Full Hitpoints (unharmed): No Penalties
¾ of Hitpoints left (Hurt): -1
½ of Hitpoints left (Wounded): -2
¼ of Hitpoints left (Mauled): -3

Example: A knight with 40 total hitpoints takes a heavy hit by an ogre's club, dealing him 11 points of net damage. His Hipoints sink under the ¾ margin, and he suffers a '"1 penalty to his throws.

9. Alignment
The alignment system is completely ignored. Anyone who tries to argument with childish terms like good or evil is to be undressed covered in mustard and tossed into the next dog pound.
Instead of 'good' or 'evil' spells, those spells are applied to Living Beings like protection from living', or Detect Living' or unliving beings (e.g. undeads or outsiders).

10: Equipment and Treasure
The amount of treasure is halved, as well as the wealth per level. There are no possibilities to buy magical items, only custom made and to the double listed prices. If you want to have a specific magical item, you should have an equivalent fancy one to change. The experience cost of item creation is doubled.
Due to the generally more powerful classes and races and the additional path bonus, the characters are roughly as strong as before, but less dependant from their equipment. The character, and not what he or she is carrying is the important part.

11: Small Stuff
All characters are considered to be illiterate as long as they don't have a rank in Decipher Script.

Sneak Attack and similar abilities gives a flat +2 damage bonus/ level instead of a dice to balance these abilities with the overall lower hitpoints.

Critical Hits are dependant on the success margin, not the roled number. A hit is considered to be critical if the margin is ten or more, -1 per additional point of thread range (e.g. a keen scimitar would only need a 6 point margin to score a critical hit).

The Wild Magic Feats do not exist. The Eschew Materials becomes a sorcerer class trait instead of a freely accessible feat.

Spells who are known for their imbalance are either banned from the game or somewhat weakened, e.g. with reduced durations or durations dependent from the invested spell points. The following spells are banned: Ropetrick, Mage's Magnificent Mansion, Baleful Polymorph, Polymorph any object.

The Duration of the spells Alter Self is reduced to 10 rounds/level (and can be extended for 2 additional rounds per additional invested spellpoint). The duration of Polymorph is reduced to 1 round/level, +1 round per invested spellpoint. Both spells are considered to be one level higher.