This is pretty rough, but I wanted to leave room for revision and additions if anybody else has suggestions or ideas. These are my imperial paladins.
The Knights of the Crown have served the emperors of both the old empire and the new. For hundreds of years they alone were all that remained of the old imperial regime, an archaic order devoted to their unbreakable oath to serve men who no longer held power over the lands of Cebegia. During the dark ages between the fall of the old empire and the rise of the new, the Knights of Crown traveled the lands of the world primarily as lone heroes and adventurers. They were only loosely affiliated during those times, but they did manage to keep contact with one another, and to uphold their oath to defend the crown. While no man had risen to power to claim the imperial throne, the knights managed to seal away the imperial crown and scepter (the symbolic vestiges of rightful rule) in a secret vault, and there they would lie for three hundred years, before a man worthy of knightly fealty, would claim dominion over the lands. When [insert name here] united the first seven city-states, revived the religion of the empire, and drove the wild beasts from the land, the knights knew they had found their new emperor. They reassembled the order, unlocked the imperial crown and scepter, and returned to serve the man they would call [insert name here] I, founder of the new empire.
Since that day the Knights of the Crown have served their emperors through good times and bad, but they have remained loyal throughout. Some of the men to have claimed imperial power have been great kings, while other have been little more than unworthy puppets. The knights understand that not all men will be as just and as pure as they, but that for the good of mankind, they must remain optimistic. Their loyalties are to the ideal of the empire, their code of honor, and the emperor himself. At times they have to choose which of their three loyalties comes first, and it breaks the heart of knight to admit that not all three can always be served equally. Their idealism however is unshakable, and the Knights of the Crown hope that if nothing else, their own benevolent and pure intentions, will rub off on the men whom they serve.
The knights of the Crown were once welcomed throughout the various city-states, during the rule of the old empire and the dark ages that followed. They were seen as pure men, with the drive to improve the lot of mankind, protect the weak, and defend the innocent. They were romanticized heroes who were greeted by swaths of children wishing to hear tales of their many adventures. They were welcomed by the injured and sick for it was said they could heal such ailments with but a touch. They were the fantasies of young maidens, who swooned over the flawless shining armor and charismatic charms. Times however have indeed changed.
While the knights are treated much as they always have been within imperial lands, beyond the domain of the new empire, the knights are seen as traitors and villains who have sworn to serve the enemy. Long gone are the days of a warm welcome. Today when a lone knight dares to ride into one of the rogue city-states, he can expect children to throw rotten vegetables in his direction, he can expect the sick or the wounded to recoil from his touch, and young maidens spit at his feet (if not in his face). At times the knights have lynched by mobs, when they dare to tread within the city-states, and hung from the boughs of trees, or even sacrificed to the Totem Gods to whom the city-states have sworn their allegiance.
It is said that a knight never breaks his oath, but these are trying times. There are numerous rumors of rogue imperials that have severed their ties to the order and the crown, and live among the barbaric folks of the city-states. Within the empire such rumors are dismissed as rebel propaganda, though there are those who have their doubts. The Knights of the Crown consider betrayal the gravest of sins, and should these rumors continue to rear their ugly heads, there is bound to be an investigation. The knights for their part do not wish to fuel the fires, so they cannot conduct such an investigation themselves; too many would doubt the order, if they began to hunt their own kind. It is possible however that they could hire a handful of adventurers and scouts to investigate the matter for themâ,¬Â¦
-Nasty-
I like the whole tormented knight thing, but do you think you should add in there somewhere about some of the knights actually being that bad? I know they are paladin knockoffs, but an extremely smart paladin can still bend the rules of his faith once in a while, right?
Quote from: WixmanI like the whole tormented knight thing, but do you think you should add in there somewhere about some of the knights actually being that bad? I know they are paladin knockoffs, but an extremely smart paladin can still bend the rules of his faith once in a while, right?
These are not paladin knock-offs; they
are paladins, and paladins
don't bend the rules. These are good guys through and through. You won't find a corrupted paladin within the Knights of the Crown; they will be banished from the order, and possibly from the empire if they deviate from the path.
Most paladins belong to the order, and they support the empire. There could of course be rogue
ex-paladins and even paladins who refuse to serve the empire, but they are the exception rather than the rule. Others may be lone heroes, wanderers, or exceptional adventurers, but those are PC stories, not setting defigning organizations or power groups.
The Knights of the Crown saved the imperial crown and sceptor, they helped legitimize the empire, and they serve the ideal of imperial restoration. They are tormented by their devotion to men who will never be as pure and just as themselves, and often have to choose the lesser of many evils. They struggle just as all paladins do, to do the right thing, and they feel guilty when they make the wrong decision. This is how a paladin should act in my eyes, and at least these paladins have each other to lean on for advice and help, where as loners they might otherwise falter.
-Nasty-
Good work nastynate! I think you have captured the image of the paladin we want to see in this setting quite nicely.
I'm thinking though, about the days when the new Empire was just being formed. Some might not have heard the call of the new Empire for some reason, and others might have disputed the legitimacy of the new Emperor's claim to the throne, pointing out that he was not of the same blood as the old Emperors or a similar argument along those lines. Perhaps we could turn them into a bit more than just rogue individuals, but rather a group that is still very paladin-ish in nature, except not loyal to the current(!) Crown. Or perhaps we couldn't. What say you?
Oh, and just for the record, I'd like to state that nastynate's interpretation of the paladin as he gave it earlier (in which he clearly separated the ideas of the divine champion and the paladin) is not the only one possible. In Orden's Mysteries (aided by the absence of alignment) a paladin is a champion of a church (ANY church, in fact) without necessarily giving up anything of his Code. This is something I intended to say earlier, but now I think the chance of derailing the thread with it is significantly smaller, considering that this thread is meant for the discussion of paladins.
;) Túrin
QuoteI'm thinking though, about the days when the new Empire was just being formed. Some might not have heard the call of the new Empire for some reason, and others might have disputed the legitimacy of the new Emperor's claim to the throne, pointing out that he was not of the same blood as the old Emperors or a similar argument along those lines. Perhaps we could turn them into a bit more than just rogue individuals, but rather a group that is still very paladin-ish in nature, except not loyal to the current(!) Crown. Or perhaps we couldn't. What say you?
I was just discussing this very same thing with Tony (natural 20) via IM. I mentioned that all of the old paladins may
not have answered the call of the new imperial regime, but I didn't feel I needed to go into detail here about that yet.
I'm sure there may have been those who disputed the claims of the new emperor, and did not fully support his rise, and perhaps there could even be long lines of paladin families decended from these men. I wanted to focus on the iconic paladin role, rather than every possible exception though.
I personally feel a few rogue lines of paladins who fight for the cause of the oppressed city-states would be perfectly acceptable, and even quite fitting. They should however still be greatly outnumbered by those who stayed true to the crown they swore to protect.
I kept this kind of vague specifically so that others involved in Cebegia could throw in their two coppers, and offer some interesting additions or suggestions. I didn't want to create the whole thing without community input.
-Nasty-
Quote from: nastynateI personally feel a few rogue lines of paladins who fight for the cause of the oppressed city-states would be perfectly acceptable, and even quite fitting. They should however still be greatly outnumbered by those who stayed true to the crown they swore to protect.
-Nasty-
So are we gonna create like a CG Paladin (like in defenders of the faith) or we still gonna go iconic all over it and just make it so that the paladins fight for something else?
As one who didn't like the idea of using paladins for this setting, I find it refreshing to say that I do like this. Good job; it gives paladins a firm place within the setting while leaving it loose enough to have outliers. It's a class by the way you described it, not a PrC, and for that I commend you.
So, I'm assuming they serve the ideal of the empire, not necessarily all aspects of it. They wish to bring peace and order to all, but will oppose tyranical aspects of it. If the emperor becomes a tyrant they would see the emperor as illegitimate and stop serving him, or perhaps even dethrone him, correct?
This gets me thinking about the class duality in this setting so far. It appears that Paladins are the opposite of Barbarians; paladins are warriors who fight for "truth, justice, and the emperial way", while Barbarians are those who fight with wild, unbridled passion.
Rangers are then the opposite of rogues. Rogues opperate best while in a civilized society. Their skills deal with people, and they're best skilled at fighting people (what with bluff for feints working best on intelligent foes). Rangers, on the other hand, are skilled people of the wilds.
QuoteSo are we gonna create like a CG Paladin (like in defenders of the faith) or we still gonna go iconic all over it and just make it so that the paladins fight for something else?
I had no plans to make another kind of paladin. I figure there are simply a handful of paladins who feel that serving the empire may compromise their ethics too much. Most however try to fight the good fight
and serve the crown.
QuoteAs one who didn't like the idea of using paladins for this setting, I find it refreshing to say that I do like this. Good job; it gives paladins a firm place within the setting while leaving it loose enough to have outliers. It's a class by the way you described it, not a PrC, and for that I commend you.
Thanks Xev. I've felt all along that I could work them in without compromising the core conflicts of the setting. I'm glad you approve.
QuoteSo, I'm assuming they serve the ideal of the empire, not necessarily all aspects of it. They wish to bring peace and order to all, but will oppose tyranical aspects of it. If the emperor becomes a tyrant they would see the emperor as illegitimate and stop serving him, or perhaps even dethrone him, correct?
The paladins are idealists. They know that not all emperors will be fair and just, but they hope that by example they can inspire them to change. I doubt they would directly oppose or dethrone the emperor, which could potentially undermine their own position in the empire. It's more like a delicate dance. The emperor needs the knights, and the people love them, so he has to keep them happy. The knights have to support the emperor, because if they don't the empire itself could fall apart. Neither side wants civil war, assinations, or a weakened imperial state.
QuoteThis gets me thinking about the class duality in this setting so far. It appears that Paladins are the opposite of Barbarians; paladins are warriors who fight for "truth, justice, and the emperial way", while Barbarians are those who fight with wild, unbridled passion.
Seems about right to me.
QuoteRangers are then the opposite of rogues. Rogues opperate best while in a civilized society. Their skills deal with people, and they're best skilled at fighting people (what with bluff for feints working best on intelligent foes). Rangers, on the other hand, are skilled people of the wilds.
I guess, but I personally don't want to see
all classes divided in such a way. The dynamic between the city-states and the empire doesn't
have to be completely black and white. That's why I left the door open for paladins without imperial ties. I don't want to cut the class options in half, if somebody runs an imperial or city-state based adventure.
IMHO rogues, fighters, and bards really shouldn't be limited to one or the other. I'd like to leave the options open (like I did with the paladins) without being forced to create variant options.
I have no issues with druids and barbarians being almost exclusively found within the city-states, and clerics and paladins being their imperial counter parts. I just don't want
everything to end up like that. It feels too contrived that way.
-Nasty-
Quote from: nastynateI guess, but I personally don't want to see all classes divided in such a way. The dynamic between the city-states and the empire doesn't have to be completely black and white. That's why I left the door open for paladins without imperial ties. I don't want to cut the class options in half, if somebody runs an imperial or city-state based adventure.
Which, I might add, is also the stance the community has taken in the recent vote about this very issue.
Anybody want me to expand on this idea? I can add much more, but want the go ahead before I get any more in depth.
-Nasty-
I for one say run with it. Note that the classes poll has been closed now so you can work off of that in full confidence.