Hello all! I was hoping to get some help with this writer block I've had for a while now. I'm looking for an original (not necessary :P), creative and fresh idea about the undead in my setting. Let me detail the problem a little more:
First off, it should be very important to keep in mind that in my setting the mythological creatures or any kind of magical beast (a medusa, dragon, werewolf, etc) are very hard/near impossible to beat. Of course, their numbers are so low (there's 1 specimen in the world some of the time) that they wouldn't be able to go and conquer the world on their own.
My problem comes when I think about undead. I really like undead ... and while they'll be very hard to beat just like any other fantastical creature... I want to keep their number higher so they're a real menace to the world. The problem with that, of course, is that there's no logical reason for them not to conquer the world being as they're so physically superior to a human. What's stopping them?
It should be noted that undead are hard to create in my setting... Mainly because I don't want them to appear everywhere and then stop being so scary. I want my characters to really panic when they see one (or any other monster for that matter). I'm toying with an idea about how if a follower of the death god makes a pilgrimage to a certain area of the world just as they are about to die... They'll be granted undeath. That'd probably be the main source of undead. It won't be as easy as just walking there... but it should create plenty of undead in the process.
Any help will be appreciated... It doesn't even have to be a fully-fleshed idea (no pun intended), we could just brainstorm together, if more than 1 person is interested. Thanks in advance!
Quote from: ArgantesAny help will be appreciated... It doesn't even have to be a fully-fleshed idea (no pun intended),
Really?
Quote...brainstorm...
The problem with that, of course, is that there's no logical reason for them not to conquer the world being as they're so
physically superior to a human. What's stopping them?[/blockquote]
Maybe they're just not mentally superior? I mean, it seems very likely that it never occurred to a horde of zombies to attempt that. Besides, what would they do once the world was conquered?
Well what specific kind of udead are you going for here? I mean, there are ghosts and such that die under extraordinary circumstrances and hang around presumably for vengeance's sake. There are ghouls or a more modern interpretation of zombies (as a plague as opposed to necro-minions) who are typically unintelligent, and sometimes even physically weak, but have the advantage of rapidly increasing numbers. There are vampires, whose interpretation varies wildly, from being similar to zombies/ghouls to being more like liches. Then there's the liches, who are incredibly rare because becoming one is so hard to do and who wouldn't conquer so much just because... well... why would they? Presumably they became undead with the intention of living forever... why risk true death?
So to recap, vengeful spirits are rare, and have very specific wants that when met allow them to pass on to true death; zombies/ghouls are a plague with teeth, but can be controlled if you strike back early; liches are rare, and are liches to begin with out of fear of death (and maybe an obsession for whose sake they keep on living), and therefore wouldn't risk their necks unless it had to do with the obsession they "live" for; vampires vary on a case-by case basis, from old-school incorporeal breathdrinkers to dracula-esque counts (liches, but more worldly) to the new-school zombie-plague vampires.
There are also specific variants you could go for. For example, there might be multiple kinds of the same undead... breathdrinkers might be alien or fiendish entities that could grant a state of unlife to a single patron (a dracula-esque vampire lord) while that vampire lord creates vampire spawn of its victims (new school vampires).
Or certain kinds of much weaker and stupider undead might be the result of improper burials (allowing malevolent spirits to posess them).
Anyway, if you're going with undead that are common and pose a threat but that won't take over the world, I figure zombies are your best bet. Keep the rest fairly uncommon.
Hm... Well, what would anyone do once they conquer the world? Haha.. I don't know if I want them to be dumb, it just seems like an easy way out of the problem.
Edit: @Beeblebrox: Yes, I guess you are right there.. I should think more about what kind of undead I want. I'm keeping ghosts in a different category given some setting-fluff, so they're not part of this particular issue.
To tell you the truth I'm not really sure if I want undead to be intelligent or not. I mean... most of the undead population would be ghoul-like (in appearance) but I'm torn apart between the regular mindless plague-like zombies .. or something ala World of Warcraft (A civilization very much like human's... except the population is conformed of undead). I'm very tempted to go with the latter, but I don't want to because WoW already has it and I don't want to copy it (even though it's not a really original idea, but eh). Hmm.. I wonder if there's a third option...
For your consideration: Tome of Necromancy (http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewthread?forum=1&thread=684)
Frank and K team up to smoothen some of the 3.5 rules, then provide some flavour text to get the ball rolling on adventure writing.
Read, animate and watch shamble: [urlhttp://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?6901.60]Zombie Apocalypse[/url] in The Crossroads
There's another setting thread on these boards somewhere, but I can't find it. I once wrote some rules on zombie behavior, it's in that thread.
Quote from: the_takenRead, animate and watch shamble: [urlhttp://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?6901.60]Zombie Apocalypse[/url] in The Crossroads
Zombie Apocalypse (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?6901.60) in The Crossroads methinks.
Beeblebrox pretty much summed up everything I would say about this. Most intelligent undead wouldn't want to conquer the world. The reward is not worth the risk. If a vampire takes over a small country, okay. If a dozen vampires try to take over a continent, sooner or later ten thousand knights are going to band together, have a merry crusade, and drag Dracula into the daylight. The way to live forever is not to flaunt that you don't fit in.
You could go for a WoD type thing. Maybe they already have taken over the world, but nobody knows it. Personally, I think the best route is either that or the "unintelligent" option.
what powers undeath in your setting, Argentes? What reason is there for there to be undeath?
For example, in my setting, the House of Life and the House of Death are diametric real extradimensional places. They are sources of magic, and can be perverted. And though one is not stronger than the other, it takes magic to 'pervert the process' that pulls the soul of a dead person from their appointed path in the Well of Death. Undeath is created by magic using the power of the House of Death and some percentage of the original soul (that % has a lot to do with how powerful and intelligent the undead is)to fill the vessel as it was once filled with the power of the House of Life.
That's the basis of it, though there are legends and other deeper stories. But for your setting, before I try to help with later questions, I need to know why there is undeath, and what power grants them the ability to horribly replicate life after the soul has left the body?
So they have to be completely physically superior? I read a HERO bestiary recently that had a variety of real mythological undead creatures in it and one thing that I noticed about them was that many had a glaring weakness for all the raw power that they possessed, and that each weakness was something that an ordinary person could take advantage of to deal with undead.
Just take the typical zombie example: it's strong, tough, and feels no pain or fear but is incredibly slow and clumsy. They're only going to be a threat to people who are surprised or not any more physically capable. They need large groups to even be a threat, but so long as they can't create spawn they can be contained and eliminated.
Let's take vampires next: a whole big mess of powers, but balanced by a whole big mess of vulnerabilities. They key to defeating a vampire is not supposed to be overpowering it with brute force but by weakening it with it's vulnerabilities and maybe even destroying it that way (i.e. tricking it into stepping out into the sun). This is why they are shown using cunning to rule from the shadows.
I think RPGs place way to much emphasis on the near invulnerability of undead when actual myth gives them unusual weaknesses to balance their powers. I think that you could have all the undeath you wanted so long as you made sure to give each kind at least one weakness that could be exploited not just by heroes but by ordinary people.
I am really fond of the idea that the undead carry through their same actions as they did in life. Meaning, dead farmers still continue to farm, light a candle in their window and settle their children down in the middle of the night. They're not so much violent, unless you interrupt their routine. The same could be said of carriage drivers, dead soldiers who continue to soldier and foresters who carry their axes in their rotted hands every morning and hack needlessly for wood (although lack the strength to fell a tree).
I don't really use malevolent undead that often, although exceptions have always been made for wights. Those who've died an especially violent death tend to rise against those who put them there in the first place. Although I don't often use supernatural creatures in the game, when they've been seen, they're certainly unique and memorable. Employing the use of waves of skeletons in tombs, roving packs of ghasts and ghouls and shadows/wraiths never really suited the type of game I run.
Jim: Morning, Bob.
Bob, the zombie: *moan*
Jim: Ya, I get like that when I haven't had my coffee.
Many thanks to everyone who's replied. You made me think about certain details I hadn't thought about before, and that's good, it's what you'd expect when you're getting feedback from people who have experience in homebrewing.
I figured I would describe some of the things I came up with after reading the couple of links the_taken posted and well, everyone's reply. Let me know what you think about it and feel free to destroy it with criticism :)
I'll try to answer to some of the questions or topics you guys introduced, so let me begin with how undeath started. This is part of the creation myth of the two main races of the world (All of this is just in my head, I haven't written it yet... so.. bear with me, I'm mostly trying to get the idea across and not worrying that much about the literary quality... 'cause then I'd take too long to post this :P)
"(...) The Faceless Elder had just been brought down by Carin and Argantes (the main two deities, light and darkness, respectively), but in the time before time death did not yet exist, so he remained there; helpless but alive. The new Gods stole The Elder's power of creation and started to discuss the new order of the world.
What we now call demons and devils were actually the children of the Faceless and constituted the population of the old world. Neither Carin nor Argantes wanted such creatures in their new lands: they were older than them and were therefore wiser. After a moment's thought, Argantes, in his infinite acuity, planned to create a moment in which every lesser creature of the world would cease to exist, so they could never amount to his knowledge. He called this moment "Death".
Argantes quickly realized the magnitude of this "Death" and what it would mean to the new world. He would not share the power of it with Carin... No, "She is too unpredictable, she has no control over herself" he thought. Soon enough, Darkness went to Light and picked up a fight with her. Things rapidly escalated and before you know it, they started combat. I don't think I could describe the beauty and complexity of a battle between the gods so I won't offend it by trying to do so. What matters is that in the end, Argantes let his guard down on purpose and let Carin deal a lethal blow. Carin was pleased.
The smirk on her face was hurriedly taken away from her, however, as she realized she had been fooled. Argantes was the first to die and by doing so created death. Being as he was now the God of Death, he brought himself back to life, and by this process he had now created "Un-death". (...)"
So that's how death and undeath began in my setting. Argantes grants undeath to some mortals, although not everyone understands the method to gain inmortality: He preached that anyone who would make a pilgrimage to the spot where his blood had been spilled that time Carin "killed" him just as they were about to die, they'd be granted eternity. Unfortunately for mortals... These words were not passed down through the generations in their entirety. People do not know that undeath is only granted to those who make the pilgrimage and reach the place the very same second their lives expire. Argantes does not, after all, grant such a thing so lightly. It's only those with great knowledge of the world and their dark god who can tell when they'll die.
What happens then to those who reach the blessed land at a different time? They are granted unlife alright... But not as you'd think. The spot where Argantes' blood was spilled is now in the middle of a city. The city walls, floors, ceilings, houses and all it holds seem to the be made of stone. Those who were granted holy sight however can see that the walls are actually made of countless bodies of people who are not alive nor dead. This city is habitated by normal people... but ruled by those who reached true undeath.
But that's not all.. In my setting, it's very hard to become a spellcaster. Two of the more "popular" ways, if you will, are by serving one God and gain access to their portfolio... Or... Make a pact with a demon. Demons are the heretics of my world, they hate the new Gods and whatever's related to them. The magic that they share with mortals is not really magic by itself... It's the knowledge of how to corrupt the divine power that Gods give to their worshippers. This magic is of course twisted and a mockery of the gods... So... When a mortal wants to replicate Argantes' Undeath, they create only mindless corpses bent on wreaking havoc.
Additionally, I was thinking that the "true undead" secretly hunt the mindless across the world... This way, normal people wouldn't know of their existence. This is benefitial to the 'true' given that if the mindless were a threat, someone would go in a crusade, as Phoenix suggested, and not only bring down the mockeries, but the other ones as well due to their physical resemblance.
Ok, that took a while, haha... Please, let me know what you think :)
I like the narrative and the unique flavor. I can see you are trying to stress the 'horror' of the undead.
I also can't help but wonder what type of spells your setting will develop.
In my campaign world (which is caught up in a spreading conflict) undead were normally more like the undead in typical tales of the supernatural. Some were cursed, some were guardians, some were mindless haunts and so on. In New Edom burning grounds are guarded by clerics who do hallowing spells to protect the living from the dead. The undead essentially issue from Annwnn/ the realm of Ereshkigal and as evil gains more power in the world it is easier for them to come into being. Certain beings know such lore and can command them.
So, Argantes, what motivates an individual to seek undeath? Power? Fear? Worship? A Power seeker could become a Vampire, or a Lich. One afraid of death could become a Spectre or a Ghast. One who worships the Dark could become a zombie. But why?
Side question #1; Does this city have a reputation for being haunted or cursed? Ruled by the true undead, sure, but what does that mean?
Side question #2; What does Light do about any of this, if anything at all?
I've always been able to bust up writer's block by deciding what a faction represents in a wide metaphoric sense. For instance, since the undead are so rare, could this represent a pilgrimage or an inner journey where a being might achieve enlightenment? If so, then this process could be steeped in lore and secret society mysteries. Layers, that when peeled back, reveal further enigmas. The eventual reward is transcendance and posterity. This kind of thing adds flavor and could begin to suggest situations and stories that should help you find something that sparks the imagination.
If the journey to undeath represents a descent into mental illness, then the vampires might manifest as paranoid and violent homicidal predators. Conversely, they might be morbidly embarrassed at their 'condition' and would go to great lengths to not 'have an episode'. How you decide to handle it will inform how they could be dealt with--dragged into the daylight, or rehabbed somehow. Liches might be portrayed as megalomaniacal Dr. Evil types sitting on thrones, plotting decades in advance and petting skeletal cats. But what do you do with that? What does a Lich represent specifically and what do undead represent generally?
I've found that when I can't answer these kinds of questions for myself, then I'm not ready to develop the faction as a force in the world... yet. But when I can, the events that the faction motivates begin to blossom into full fledged plots. Block broken. I hope this helps without sounding weird and preachy.
Maybe undead in this setting never work together. Maybe each individual undead is bent on getting revenge for its own death or finishing some other kind of personal business in the world of the living. Maybe undead are so rare because it takes an extraordinary amount of passion and hate at the moment of death for a person to crawl back from the afterlife as an undead. An undead would fall apart after getting what it wants (if getting what it wants is still even possible,) but until it does, it has the power to topple armies and crush cities.
Quote from: SlapzillaLiches might be portrayed as megalomaniacal Dr. Evil types sitting on thrones, plotting decades in advance and petting skeletal cats. But what do you do with that?
Create a gnomish Austin Powers. :D
It seems so obvious now.