I've been brainstorming ideas about the source of the various powers of Sulos. I've tried to draw parallels between certain creatures, planes, and abilities and classes. Here are some of my ideas, though they need lots of work.
The Arcane Font
The Arcane Font is connected to the Elseworld, the demons who dwell there, and harnessed by those who serve them, descend from them, or have stolen the secrets of magic from them. Few people in the modern age serve the demons, though in the distant past demonic pacts were a means to channle unbridled arcane might. Today those that manipulate the power of the Arcane Font, either feel it welling up from within them from their blood, or they have harnessed and tamed it by other means. Spontaneous casters feel the power of demonic heritage flowing through their veins. Wizards on the other hand have harnessed the power of the font, by stealing the knowledge of the arcane from those who have more direct channels.
The Font of the Mind
The Font of the Mind is connected to the Mindscape and the Aberrations native to the plane. It is harnessed by those who have unlocked the inherent power that lies within thier minds. While much of the power of psionics comes from a connection to the Mindscape, there are those who have tamed the powers of the mind, and no longer need to draw upon the font. Most manifesters draw the power of psionics from their mental link to the mindscape; the erudites however have learned how to steal the power of psionics and bend it to their will, without any connection to the mindscape what so ever. How such a thing is possible remains a mystery, but as with all the fonts, mankind has found ways to control them without serving the source from whence it is drawn.
The Divine Font
The Divine Font is connected to the power of the ancient gods and their angelic servants. Souls touched by the power of the Divine Font learn to channel the energy. Divine casters either have their powers granted through divine servitude (like clerics), or feel it within their very souls like druids, paladins, and favored souls. The archivists however have learned to harness the power of the Divine Font without any spiritual connection to the soul. Their soulless magic is harnessed through the study and manipulation of knowledge left behind by the ancient clerical orders, or taken from others who have more direct channels to the Font, much as wizards have stolen the power of the arcane.
The Font of Sulos
The Font of Sulos is also known as science, technology, or simple enginuity. Those who draw upon the materials, laws, and physics natural to world also draw upon the Font of the Sulos. While the other three fonts are drawn from extraplanar origins, the Font of Sulos is a much more tangible and measurable thing. Inventors, engineers, scientists, and doctors have learned to harness the power of the Font of Sulos. Many of those who draw upon the power of the Font of Sulos have tamed the powers of other fonts, and bent them to the laws of Sulos. Wizards have tamed the Arcane Font, Erudites have tamed the Font of the Mind, and Archivists have tamed the Divine Font.
I'd like to tie four classes to each font. For example The Font of the Mind: Psion, Psychic Warrior, Ardent, and Lurk. The Font of the Divine: Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid, and Paladin. The Font of the Arcane: Sorcerer, Bard, and two others (I'm undecided but maybe hexblades and warlocks). And the Font of Sulos: Archivist, Erudite, Wizard, and some sort of inventor type (maybe like the Artificer). I wish there were some sort of technomancer / scientists / tinkerer type class that I could use here. Anybody know of something along these lines?
I'm not a huge fan of either the Hexblade or the Warlock, and I'd like to find something better to use in their place. I'm thinking of combining the two classes to make a full BAB warrior with the eldritch blast ability, but w/o invocations. I'd also like to make the assassin a base class rather than a PrC. Do these ideas sound like they have potential?
I like the Fonts. They are closely tied to the tone/theme of Sulos, and also closely tied together (I'm always a fan of analogies of this sort: wizards have harnessed the Arcane Font the same way archivists have harnessed the Divine Font, etc.). Very interesting.
As for the Font of Sulos, is that supposed to be anything more than a thought-construction?
As for the eldritch blast warrior, I doubt that would work. It seems redundant: when you're going to play a fighter/mage, will you be learning fireball and magic missile? See my point?
;) Túrin
The Font of Sulos and the Arcane Font remind me a lot like the parallel worlds of Fullmetal Alchemist (Their world and our's), I really like the overall concept. It'll be fun to watch. :)
QuoteI like the Fonts. They are closely tied to the tone/theme of Sulos, and also closely tied together (I'm always a fan of analogies of this sort: wizards have harnessed the Arcane Font the same way archivists have harnessed the Divine Font, etc.). Very interesting.
That's what I was gunning for. Different fonts harnessed in simlar ways.
QuoteAs for the Font of Sulos, is that supposed to be anything more than a thought-construction?
I kind of envision the world with numerous parallel planes each attuned to certain fonts. Sulos is attuned to law and science (the power of man to dissect, understand, and bend the world to his will). The Elseworld is attuned to evil and magic. The Mindscape is attuned to chaos and psionics. And the plane of Pholtus is attuned to divine magic and the soul.
QuoteAs for the eldritch blast warrior, I doubt that would work. It seems redundant: when you're going to play a fighter/mage, will you be learning fireball and magic missile? See my point?
I do see what you mean, but both classes are terrible. I think a full BAB blaster would be nice mechanically, and pretty simple to do. Just replace fighter bonus feats with eldritch blast, and switch up the class skills a little. Presto! I don't think it's really
that redundant; a fighter / wizard / eldritch knight for example has
way more options.
QuoteThe Font of Sulos and the Arcane Font remind me a lot like the parallel worlds of Fullmetal Alchemist (Their world and our's), I really like the overall concept. It'll be fun to watch.
That's kind of along the lines of what I was gunning for. With only the Font of Sulos, the world would be much like our own; the other three fonts enable the people of Sulos to draw upon the powers inherent to other parallel planes.
-Nasty-
I think it's just plain sweet. Very cool way to use the planes too. I assume planar travel is impossible in Sulos? And the Font of sulos doesn't grant any powers either, that just seems kind of wierd to me... I might suggest making the font of sulos a martial thing, like fighters, barabarians, etc. as they seem to have no place here. either that or reduce it to the three planar fonts.
Anyway, a full BAB caster seems kinda dumb to me personally, I would suggest looking for another base class or finding something different to use... Not sure what else though. Thenagain, just using the warlock with ifferent fluff could work just as well. seeing a sorcerers in Sulos are pretty much like how warlocks are made out to be normally.
QuoteI'd like to tie four classes to each font. For example The Font of the Mind: Psion, Psychic Warrior, Ardent, and Lurk. The Font of the Divine: Cleric, Favored Soul, Druid, and Paladin. The Font of the Arcane: Sorcerer, Bard, and two others (I'm undecided but maybe hexblades and warlocks). And the Font of Sulos: Archivist, Erudite, Wizard, and some sort of inventor type (maybe like the Artificer). I wish there were some sort of technomancer / scientists / tinkerer type class that I could use here. Anybody know of something along these lines?
I'm not a huge fan of either the Hexblade or the Warlock, and I'd like to find something better to use in their place. I'm thinking of combining the two classes to make a full BAB warrior with the eldritch blast ability, but w/o invocations. I'd also like to make the assassin a base class rather than a PrC. Do these ideas sound like they have potential?[/quote]
Both ideas have potential. I've worked on a melee warlock before, though I cut out the eldrich blast and gave it invocations: Oppostite idea of yours, but still workable. The Assassin base class has been done numerous times, and I even think their are some published ones out there. You'd have to mess with Assassin alignments, but those are both viable options. Great stuff. :)
QuoteOnly thing I can think of is the Artificer, and maybe Dragonmech had a class that could do similar things. I'll look though my dragonmech book, see if I can find it. Also, I'm working on a technologist class for Datrik and a few other worlds, and while I'm not sure it will work with Sulos, it will be easily adaptable. I would say for Arcane to use Hexblade and Warlock, since I love both of them, but since you don't, using a mixture betwen the two and an assassian would be viable, IMO.
Keep me posted on your technologist class. It might be too out there for Sulos, but I may be able to draw upon it for inspiration.
QuoteBoth ideas have potential. I've worked on a melee warlock before, though I cut out the eldrich blast and gave it invocations: Oppostite idea of yours, but still workable. The Assassin base class has been done numerous times, and I even think their are some published ones out there. You'd have to mess with Assassin alignments, but those are both viable options. Great stuff.
Yeah I like the concept of a full BAB blaster who could be the arcane shocktrooper. I don't care about the invocations, because I want them to be primal channelers of raw energy, rather than refined casters. I think it could be a fun class too.
I'll see if I can find an assassin base class somewhere. A little google digging never hurt anybody.
Thanks for the feedback
-Nasty-
QuoteI think it's just plain sweet. Very cool way to use the planes too. I assume planar travel is impossible in Sulos? And the Font of sulos doesn't grant any powers either, that just seems kind of wierd to me... I might suggest making the font of sulos a martial thing, like fighters, barabarians, etc. as they seem to have no place here. either that or reduce it to the three planar fonts.
Planar travel is not impossible at all, but it is rather unknown and very dangerous. Much like the deomns who come to Sulos, the people who travel to the elseworld could suffer charisma damage (I haven't really thought much about it yet).
The font of Sulos
does grant power. In the same way we harness the power of our world, through science, formulas, mathmatics, and so on. Sulos has things like electomagnetic energy, thermal power, convection, fire and so on. Sulos is Earth-like; unlike the other planes which have laws and forces all their own.
Martial classes do not have the ability to harness or channel any force other their own bodies and their tools. They still have a role within the setting, but unlike a psion, cleric, or wizard, there is no need to explain their abilities. They are very strait-forward in their functionality.
QuoteAnyway, a full BAB caster seems kinda dumb to me personally, I would suggest looking for another base class or finding something different to use... Not sure what else though. Thenagain, just using the warlock with ifferent fluff could work just as well. seeing a sorcerers in Sulos are pretty much like how warlocks are made out to be normally.
A full BAB
caster already exists in the Hexblade, Paladin, and Ranger. There is a precedent already in place. However I have not suggested a caster, but an arcane blaster and shock trooper. I want to strip the warlock of their frilly invocations and turn them into an arcane warrior. Maybe somebody who channels the raw power of the arcane into a simple and crude weapon; nothing so refined as a spell, just the energy from whence spells are created.
-Nasty-
Didn't Cymro have an assassin class for Altvogge?
Quote from: TúrinDidn't Cymro have an assassin class for Altvogge?
I think he did actually.
However is looking like I'm gonna go with it like this.
Arcane Font: Sorcerer, Bard, Demon Knight
Divine Font: Divine Knight, Druid, Favored Soul
Mind Font: Lurk, Psion, Psychic Warrior
Science Font: Archivist, Erudite, Wizard
-Nasty-
Looking good. Yay for symmetry!
Quote from: nastynateArcane Font: Sorcerer, Bard, Demon Knight
Divine Font: Divine Knight, Druid, Favored Soul
Mind Font: Lurk, Psion, Psychic Warrior
Science Font: Archivist, Erudite, Wizard
-Nasty-
You said that arcane power was demonic in origin; so the bard wields demonic power? I'm interested to see how the bard is described now. I also understand you're searching for symmetry, but there's one small issue: you have only one full caster for the arcane and mind fonts, but two for the divine font (druid and favored soul). Just currious.
I do like the set up. I'm sort of doing a similar thing in my setting, except the different forms of magic are tied to different extraplanar beings (the beings who tend to wield said magic): Divine magic is tied to Outsiders, Arcane magic is tied to Elementals, Psionic magic is tied to Aberrations, and Natural magic is tied to Fey.
QuoteYou said that arcane power was demonic in origin; so the bard wields demonic power? I'm interested to see how the bard is described now. I also understand you're searching for symmetry, but there's one small issue: you have only one full caster for the arcane and mind fonts, but two for the divine font (druid and favored soul). Just currious.
It's not as difficult to explain thematically as you might imagine. Arcane magic is drawn from demonic bloodlines, but not all who have demonic blood flowing through their veins ever realize or even understand it. Much like draconic blood and sorcerers are loosely connected in the PHB, in Sulos it's demonic blood.
Thus a bard is an individual with some ancestral connections to the demons, but he might not even realize it. The class was first used by the elves more than 5,000 years ago, when they were still the unwitting servants of the demons. They were generals and commanders during times of war, and many became powerful blade singers. The modern image of the class only masks it's origin.
I know the divine font has two full casters, but it doesn't bother me too much. I thought about making a nature based font, but it was even more difficult to balance things out then. Perfect balance isn't ever going to happen, but so long as things are
mostly balanced, I'll be happy.
QuoteI do like the set up. I'm sort of doing a similar thing in my setting, except the different forms of magic are tied to different extraplanar beings (the beings who tend to wield said magic): Divine magic is tied to Outsiders, Arcane magic is tied to Elementals, Psionic magic is tied to Aberrations, and Natural magic is tied to Fey.
I knew about the elemental-arcane connection, but I hadn't realized that you were doing it accross the board. Great minds as they say...
-Nasty-
Quote from: TúrinDidn't Cymro have an assassin class for Altvogge?
Indeed I do, one that is arcane...
So where do the fighter, monk,rogue, etcetera, fit in the fonts?
Quote from: CYMROQuote from: TúrinDidn't Cymro have an assassin class for Altvogge?
Indeed I do, one that is arcane...
So where do the fighter, monk,rogue, etcetera, fit in the fonts?
Yeah I checked it out (Altvogge's assassin), but what I think I'm going to do is leave them as a PrC and find a way for bugbears to qualify strait from their humanoid levels. I may rework the prerequisites of the PrC, or I might tweak the bugbear a bit.
They don't draw upon any external source of power for their abilities. A fighter trains hard, works out, studies combat, but he doesn't ever learn about convection and apply it to his craft, not does he tap into a power inherent to a lost bloodline. He just has never learned how to do such things.
The fonts explain the origin of the various powers at work in the world...not much need with a fighter or rogue to explain how they do what they do.
Thankfully there are no monks (well not fighting oriental flavored monks) in Sulos, so there's no need to worry about that.
-Nasty-
Quote from: nastynateA full BAB caster already exists in the Hexblade, Paladin, and Ranger. There is a precedent already in place. However I have not suggested a caster, but an arcane blaster and shock trooper. I want to strip the warlock of their frilly invocations and turn them into an arcane warrior.
Well, you could always just take the hexblade and replae their spellcasting with an equivalent eldritch blast ability. But then again, I'm not so sure that a full BAB and an eldritch blast ability compliment one another all that well. If you can kill someone with ranged touch attacks, why bother honing your BAB? Eldritch blast hits just fine with a warlock BAB, and it doesn't benefit from multiple attacks for a high BAB.
Quote from: Epic_MeepoQuote from: nastynateA full BAB caster already exists in the Hexblade, Paladin, and Ranger. There is a precedent already in place. However I have not suggested a caster, but an arcane blaster and shock trooper. I want to strip the warlock of their frilly invocations and turn them into an arcane warrior.
Well, you could always just take the hexblade and replae their spellcasting with an equivalent eldritch blast ability. But then again, I'm not so sure that a full BAB and an eldritch blast ability compliment one another all that well. If you can kill someone with ranged touch attacks, why bother honing your BAB? Eldritch blast hits just fine with a warlock BAB, and it doesn't benefit from multiple attacks for a high BAB.
Xathan and I made the class and it really kicks royal buttocks! Check out the Demon Knight thread. Its a half-fiend transformational class, with blasting capabailites, that also has some fantastic melee capability. (this class does benefit from multiple attacks BTW)
-Nasty-