My setting, Three Worlds, offers an interesting thought experiment. As those who have read what work I've put into it know, my setting is Earth in the far future; I haven't decided exactly how far, but it will be between 5 and 20 million years in the future. While Three Worlds will be a high fantasy setting, my goal is to design it with believability in mind, so "speculative science" will be the framework for most of the setting.
One element of this that has been of special interest to me has been populating the world with creatures. Tens of millions of years of evolution, genetic engineering, and magical mutation have the potential to create some very interesting things. I've been reading books and watching programs on speculative evolution, but I've reached a point where I need some assistance. I hope that this is an interesting topic for some (I know for a fact that there are some diehard Sci-Fi fans here ... I'm looking at you Stargate ...), and that it can turn out to be a fun adventure in design work.
As I will be switching over to 4E, I'm not looking for stats, just ideas. I'd like to discuss what effects my world's history could have on its creatures, design philosophy of the merits of doing things differently, determining the origin of classic fantasy creatures (like griffins), and some plain old wild and crazy creation. So without further delay, here is the history of the world as it actually happened:
[ic]Mankind progressed rather nicely through the millennia, developing interstellar travel, vast powers of genetic engineering, and even succeeded in unlocking a dormant source of power which could only be described as magic. Mankind's exploration eventually ushered them into the interstellar and interplanar playing fields.
But prosperity wasn't to last forever. First, Earth entered into a terrible ice age; this had been long predicted, so the far northern and far southern cities were protected by climate controlling devices. Second, the Earth experienced a pole-shift, causing it to lose its magnetosphere; even the advanced humans couldn't predict for how long. Their technology fell into ruin, and many people abandoned the Earth to seek a new home. Then the third cataclysm happened: in mankind's efforts to find a new world, they sparked a war. Their colonial ships were destroyed, and a being of terrible power was sent to Earth. Using all the power mankind had left, and with the help of their allies from Earth's reflection and shadow worlds, the being was destroyed, but the cost was high.
Mankind's technology had been ruined, and the knowledge of its creation was lost. Humans had, quite literally, been sent back to the stone age. The massive release of magic caused by the death of the alien being severed the connection between the planes. On Earth's Reflection and Earth's Shadow, humans were exterminated, their technology became forbidden, and even the memory of their existence faded into legend.
But life on Earth had survived the birth of oxygen, the closing of seas, meteors, and mankind; it would survive this.[/ic]
So, unlike many of the pieces of "research" into future evolution, my world doesn't eliminate mankind's influence. There was a period of time where mankind played with genetic engineering. This is the origin of the seven anthromorphic animals, who make up the feral races of my setting (made up of bats, bears, cheetahs, dolphins, rats, seals, and wolves, hybrids which were originally used for military purposes ala Moreaus). Elves are the descendants of the Sidhe, the native people of Avalon (Earth's Reflection), who were stranded on Earth, while Orcs are the descendants of the native people of Sylphenhest (Earth's Shadow) who were stranded on Earth. Halflings are a product of evolution, evolving from tree dwelling monkeys.
Modern Dragons are the descendants of the children of the being that attacked Earth. I haven't yet decided where the reptilian humanoids came from, though they could easily be another product of genetic engineering as they have obvious animal analogs: draconians are reptile-like birds (think velociraptor, though reverse engineered through birds rather than ancient dna), kobolds are lizards, lizardfolk are crocodiles, and (naga) are snakes. I am considering making griffins and hippogriffs members of a group of birds who, by some freak mutation, developed six limbs instead of four. Griffins are predatory members of the group, while hippogriffs are herbivores (though I'm not sure I can keep this, as I think that herbivorous and omnivorous birds are all relatively small ... they'd have to switch to grass and leaves instead of just fruit and nuts); at the very least, hippogriffs will be far less aggressive.
Without forcing everyone to read the entire book, a list of the animals presented in "After Man" can be found at wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/After_Man). Long story short, the author believes that ocean mammals, bears, felines, and canines will go extinct (largely because of our impact on them, combined with them being fairly specialized and thus unable to survive the ice age that is predicted in 5 million years), and their niches would be replaced by rodents, mustelids (badgers, wolverines, skunks), and bats. Now, this book was written with humans being out of the picture. With humans around, it seems likely that dogs would go extinct (as we've domesticated them; the moment human society is knocked back to the stone age, natural selection should breed wolf-like traits back into dogs). The "ancient" humans might have also succeeded in conservation to a large extent.
Mostly, when choosing what animals to make extinct and replace with new animals the choice is more about aesthetics than realism. As I now believe in "if it walks like a duck ...", if I have a six foot long four limbed mammalian pack predator attack my players, they're going to call it a wolf no matter if it descended from dogs or rodents. Again, it is largely about appearances. Final Fantasy 12, for instance, has creatures they call wolves that have horns and spines, but they seem to call them wolves because it fosters immediate understanding (just like if you have a race of short humanoids who live underground and mine, but you call them something other than dwarfs, your players are probably going to call them dwarfs from time to time).
I want my world to feel fantastic and unique, but I don't want its uniqueness to get in the way of understanding. But if some large assumptions about changes can be made, such as canines being largely replaced by rodents, felines by mongooses, and bears by mustelids, it could be purely an image change. Or I could leave real world animals unchanged but use the projections to create some new ones; I'm especially fond of the idea of a flightless eyeless wolf-sized predatory bat stalking caves and jungles.
Does any suggestions on any of the topics posed?
QuoteModern Dragons are the descendants of the children of the being that attacked Earth. I haven't yet decided where the reptilian humanoids came from, though they could easily be another product of genetic engineering as they have obvious animal analogs: draconians are reptile-like birds (think velociraptor, though reverse engineered through birds rather than ancient dna), kobolds are lizards, lizardfolk are crocodiles, and (naga) are snakes.
What if these were attempts of the humans to combat the being? mixing DNA they acquired from it with other reptiles and humans...
QuoteI am considering making griffins and hippogriffs members of a group of birds who, by some freak mutation, developed six limbs instead of four. Griffins are predatory members of the group, while hippogriffs are herbivores (though I'm not sure I can keep this, as I think that herbivorous and omnivorous birds are all relatively small ... they'd have to switch to grass and leaves instead of just fruit and nuts); at the very least, hippogriffs will be far less aggressive.
That's a bit of a stretch, spontaneously growing an extra pair of limbs. The herbivorous part would be relatively easy to explain in that its prey is plant-subtype creatures.
Quotethe author believes that ocean mammals, bears, felines, and canines will go extinct (largely because of our impact on them, combined with them being fairly specialized and thus unable to survive the ice age that is predicted in 5 million years
Uh, not really. I can easily see those animals migrating southward to prey upon the large herbivores found in the equatorial belt, while still adapting to the colder climes. Observe saber-toothed Tiger, arctic wolves, and woolly mammoth.
I'm aware the extra limbs is a huge stretch of the imagination, since (as far as I know) it only happens in Frogs infested with a particular parasite. But just because it hasn't happened before doesn't mean it isn't possible in the future. I just think having griffins and hippogriffs being "normal" animals makes the setting more fantastic (as backwards as that sounds).
As for the mammal extinction thing, I'm just going off of "After Man"'s author's hypothesis. As I said, I'm not 100% comfortable with removing recognizable animals and replacing them with mechanically and thematically identical counterparts whose only difference is appearance. If it acts like a wolf, for instance, it's probably better to just call it a wolf and just have it be a wolf.
But then again, there could be virtues in having a reasonably unique animal population. It could make the world more fantastic as well. This is one of the things I'd really like to discuss with all of you, as this decision will direct the rest.
Arise Chicken ... chicken arise.
Quote from: XeviatArise Chicken ... chicken arise.
Natural evolution (adapting to the ice age)[/list]
Increase in mutations due to Earth's temporary loss of the magnetosphere
Migration from Sylphenhest
Alien Influence (either draconic or from some other cosmic entity)
Simple changes could be due to one thing from this list, while major changes would probably be influenced by several of these.
Because there seemed to be a time when Avalon and Sylphenhest were closely connected to Earth, I see no reason why some creatures from those worlds could have migrated to Earth (and then continue to evolve on Earth). This way you can afford to have some native Earth species to become extinct, only to have more otherworldly creatures fill in the niche (and look similar as well).
For example, you could allow native wolves to become extinct, and later have Sylphenhest wolves migrate onto Earth to fill in the missing niche. Sylphenhest sounds like your setting's equivalent of the Shadowfell, so I imagine that wolves from this world could become insubstantial or even invisible for short periods of time. Such a feature would give them a huge advantage over native predators.
Perhaps the common ancestor of griffons and hippogriffs where native to Avalon, and they naturally had six limbs millennia ago. This way you don't have to justify a four limbed creature gaining a new set of limbs '" it would be there to begin with. In fact you could make a lot of other species that share the griffon/hippogriff common ancestor.
On the topic of hippogriffs: If they eat plants and grasses, I would recommend that you get rid of their beaks. If their diet consists of fruit and nuts, then their beaks make sense (or perhaps really tough grasses such as bamboo). To eat fruit and nuts the beak should resemble a parrot more than a hawk.
Bioengineering seems like the best route to explain human hybrids, or at least how they began. Even they could be subject to evolution, so they need not be the same as their ancestors. Some mutations could have turned them into much different creatures than what the scientists intended them to be.
Magic seems to be the easy way out when it comes to creating new creatures, but it can be useful (especially for the truly bizarre creatures). I always loved the term 'Arcane Radiation,' and often used it in D&D games to describe the aftermath of really powerful spells. Such radiation could give minor mutations to creatures, rather than going with the classic Combine-Two-Creatures-Together philosophy of arcane creations.
I hope this helps.
It is a reference to Aqua Teen Hunger Force: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LxITlJplhw I was casting thread necromancy, witch-doctor style.
Either way, awesome reply, and thank you. You've given me a bunch to think about.
First, yes, the pole shift and ice age are over, long over. Compasses point south, and I've changed the orientation of maps.
I hadn't considered Avalonian and Sylphenhestian migration (oddly except for Elves and Goblins). If it could happen with the humanoids from Avalon and Sylphenhest, why not the animals? Griffins and their line (including drakes, or false-dragons) could be Avalonian, or maybe the more avian griffins and hippogriffs could be Avalonian while the reptilian drakes could be Sylphenhestian.
Thanks on the reference to hippogriff beaks. Since the larger hippogriffs are horse sized, I'm not sure how many nuts (aside from coconuts) they'd really need to be that large to eat. From my understanding, herbivores get larger both to defend against predators and to have a larger digestive system to help them digest cellulose. Since I want them to fill the same ecological niche as horses, they should probably eat like horses; rather than a hooked beak, perhaps it has flattened to be more of a bill? Then again, triceratops and its relatives had a beak of a sorts.
I hadn't considered further evolution of the bioengineered races. I could use that to go in very diverse directions. What ways do you think humans spliced with traits from wolves, cheetahs, cattle, rats, and bats could go? It's possible they could develop to very vastly from their originals.
I'm not sure how much "magic did it" I want to use. You're right that it can be too easy. Then again, it's just as easy as bioengineering, so perhaps I shouldn't be prejudiced against it.
Thanks, it helped a lot.
Quote from: XeviatFirst, yes, the pole shift and ice age are over, long over. Compasses point south, and I've changed the orientation of maps.
Side point: the orientation of maps is pretty arbitrary. Medieval 'T-O' maps had east at the top, and other maps have had south.
Quote from: Age of FableQuote from: XeviatFirst, yes, the pole shift and ice age are over, long over. Compasses point south, and I've changed the orientation of maps.
Side point: the orientation of maps is pretty arbitrary. Medieval 'T-O' maps had east at the top, and other maps have had south.
Not to mention that choosing either the magnetic north or the magnetic south as the direction to which a compass needle points, is likewise arbitrary. The earliest compasses were south-pointing devices, probably because they were invented by the Chinese, who for long had made use of a mechanical device called the south pointing chariot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Pointing_Chariot).
Interesting. Either way, I like how the map looks with south on top.