The Campaign Builder's Guild

The content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

The following are variant features for the monk class.  They are meant to capture more of a western feel than the standard monk class.  Earlier feedback has already helped to shape this material, so any comments are welcome.


Monk Class Features

Western monks are not martial artists.  Accordingly, all western monks have the merciful strike class feature described below.  Most also have the protective aura class feature.


MERCIFUL STRIKE

A monk with the merciful strike class feature does not practice unarmed combat styles or wield exotic weapons.  Instead, he learns to wield simple weapons, which he can use in melee to quickly subdue his foes.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: A monk who has this class feature does not gain flurry of blows and does not gain unarmed strike (or any later improvements to those class features).  A monk with this class feature is not proficient with any of the following exotic weapons: kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, siangham.

Benefits: A monk with this class feature gains Simple Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat, and any simple melee weapon wielded by the monk gains the ki focus magic weapon property for as long as the monk wields it.

Also, whenever a monk with merciful strike hits with a simple melee weapon, the monk deals 1d6 points of nonlethal damage in addition to any other damage dealt.  (This bonus damage is always nonlethal damage, even if other damage dealt by the attack is lethal damage.)  At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the amount of this bonus damage increases by an additional +1d6 points of nonlethal damage.


PROTECTIVE AURA

A monk with the protective aura class feature instead of fast movement does not learn to move swiftly, but does gain abilities that help him to hold his ground.  He learns to shrug of harmful effects, and to help his allies do likewise.

Level: 1st.

Replaces: A monk who has this feature does not gain fast movement at 3rd level (or any future improvements to that class feature).  A monk with this class feature does not gain the normal bonus feats that other monks get at 1st, 2nd, and 6th levels.

Benefits: At 1st level, a monk with this class feature gains Iron Will as a bonus feat.  At 2nd level, he gains Great Fortitude as a bonus feat.  At 6th level, he gains Lightning Reflexes as a bonus feat.

Also, starting at 3rd level, a monk with protective aura is surrounded by a 10-foot-raius emantion whenever he is conscious.  Any time the monk or a living ally within this emantion takes damage, up to one point of lethal damage per five monk levels (minimum 1) is converted into nonlethal damage.  (This effect does not stack with other effects that convert lethal damage into nonlethal damage.  Damage that is already nonlethal damage is unaffected.)  At 6th level and every three levels thereafter, the radius of this emantion increases by 10 feet.

I'd honestly have to say that while it's a great concept, its implementation isn't all that great, so no, it isn't all that fun.  But it could be.

Basically, you've removed the thing that, for me, truly defines the monk class: the ability to flip out and kill stuff with his bare hands.  In lieu of unarmed strike and all that comes with it, the scholarly monk gains a slightly better weapon proficiency, the ability to aid another with greater efficiency, the ability to imbue weapons with inner power, and the ability to cause fatiguing, rather than greivous harm, as well as a better skill selection.

The problem is that while this may balance the scholarly monk, it is a rather unremarkable class because of it.  Removing unarmed strike means that quivering palm should go as well, and the general thematic shift from East to West should result in the abandoning of the slow fall and evasion abilities.  The bonus feats will also need to be either changed or removed, as most of them involve unarmed combat.  Removing these abilities would allow you to add more unique class features that are more in keeping with a European theme.  You mention the "secret truths of the supernatural world", so I would suggest creating some abilities that better reflect that.

Sorry I can't be more constructive than that at the moment; school awaits.

Hope this helped.
-Angel

Quote from: Salacious AngelBasically, you've removed the thing that, for me, truly defines the monk class: the ability to flip out and kill stuff with his bare hands.

In a setting with no Eastern-style martial arts, would you then be of the opinion that I should drop the monk class?

For that matter, would it make more sense for a monk (in the European sense of the word) to be a bard variant that has nothing to do with the monk class at all?  (A bard variant in the sense that monks are support characters with lots of knowledge skills and buffing abilities, not bard variant in the sense that monks have bardic music.)

QuoteIn a setting with no Eastern-style martial arts, would you then be of the opinion that I should drop the monk class?

I know this wasn't directed at me personally, but I felt I should chime in. I personally almost never use monks in any European inspired setting. I wouldn't advocate dropping them altogether, but making them rare isolated monastaries, that are mysterious, and not well known by the public. It solves the conflicting flavor issues, quite nicely; people just don't know much about those monks who live high in the Alps.

QuoteFor that matter, would it make more sense for a monk (in the European sense of the word) to be a bard variant that has nothing to do with the monk class at all? (A bard variant in the sense that monks are support characters with lots of knowledge skills and buffing abilities, not bard variant in the sense that monks have bardic music.)

IN the European sense of the monk they should be experts, adepts, or something similar. Learned men with a handful of unique skills, but not suitable as heroic adventurers. At least bards travelled, saw the world, and lived interesting lives. Monks with their vows, caligraphy, and butter churning don't seem all that exciting in European history.

The Rasputin/Nostradamus angle however could be really cool. Fortune tellers, and prophets, with mysterious arcane powers to manipulate and charm people. That's awesome. If this is what you were alluding to with bard comparisons, I give it the thumbs up.

-Nasty-

Hmmm...  I suppose I should clarify what role I want the monks to be playing.  I'm looking for a monk that fits the Dark Ages stereotype for a monk, a fellow whose monastary is one of the few places in the world that still remembers the knowledge and civility that was part of an earlier golden age.

In the rough draft that I started with, I was going for a non-lethal combatant who demonstrates mercy and cooperation that the savage folk of the modern age lack altogether.  All of the other traditional monk-ish stuff like evasion and slow fall came from a spiritual awareness and oneness with the world, not from martial arts training.

Of course, that still leaves Angel's complaint that the monk isn't cool if he can't beat you down with his bare hands.

QuoteOf course, that still leaves Angel's complaint that the monk isn't cool if he can't beat you down with his bare hands.

Quoted for truthery. (Rasputin was still cool though, just not what you wanted)

Except for quotes from earlier posts, the content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

Quote from: nastynate

QuoteOf course, that still leaves Angel's complaint that the monk isn't cool if he can't beat you down with his bare hands.

Quoted for truthery. (Rasputin was still cool though, just not what you wanted)

And I suppose that +6 bonus to damage with nonlethal unarmed strikes just isn't going to cut it when it comes to beating someone down with your bare hands.

What if every nonlethal attack made by a scholar monk uses either its normal base damage or the base unarmed damage dealt by a normal monk of the appropriate level?  As in, 20th-level scholar monk attacks for nonlethal damage with a quarterstaff and deals 2d10 damage.  Then he attacks again, and again, then he attacks with the other end.  2d10 damage each attack.

Its not as deadly as a normal monk, but then again, he's got 40 extra skill points at that level and can give a near-by ally a +2 attack or AC as an immediate action each round.

Would that restore some coolness to the class?

QuoteAnd I suppose that +6 bonus to damage with nonlethal unarmed strikes just isn't going to cut it when it comes to beating someone down with your bare hands.

It isn't actually. A standard core monk can already choose to deal non-lethal dmage with his unarmed strikes; and he deals far more of it.

QuoteWhat if every nonlethal attack made by a scholar monk uses either its normal base damage or the base unarmed damage dealt by a normal monk of the appropriate level? As in, 20th-level scholar monk attacks for nonlethal damage with a quarterstaff and deals 2d10 damage. Then he attacks again, and again, then he attacks with the other end. 2d10 damage each attack.

Tha standard core monk still deals more non-lethal damage, and she has the option to deal lethal if she wants to.

QuoteIts not as deadly as a normal monk, but then again, he's got 40 extra skill points at that level and can give a near-by ally a +2 attack or AC as an immediate action each round.

Neutering the combat ability of the monk is not offset by a few extra skill points. The aid another option is cool, but out of flavor, and better suited to other buffing or flanking type classes, like the marshal, rogue, or bard.

QuoteWould that restore some coolness to the class?

I think if you want to shift away from combat and more towards the scholarly approach, you need to give the monk something really special and unique. Whatever you choose to give them should not be a weaker combat ability, but something that plays to their scholarly strengths...like the archivist's knowledge based buffing abilities.

-Nasty-

EDIT: I agree with your desire to get away from the oriental flavor, but the abilities you have proposed don't really do that. In addition you are stripping away power from a class that is already in the middle of the pack (which could push it down to the bottom of the barrel). Keep at it though. I like the idea.

Quote from: nastynateWhatever you choose to give them should not be a weaker combat ability, but something that plays to their scholarly strengths...like the archivist's knowledge based buffing abilities.

My first choice was both a weaker combat ability and something that plays to their scholarly strengths.

But alas, archivists are not OGL.  Neither are artificers.  Neither are true namers.  Dang OGL.  It doesn't include anything fun for scholarly types, not without full-blown spellcasting.

If you're looking for a peaceful scholarly type, who tries to promote compassion and good values (as opposed to busting heads), take a look at some of the stuff from BoED. Specifically, the vows (poverty, non-violence, peace, etc...) and the apostle of peace PrC.

If you want non-eastern flavoured bare handed head busting, take a look at Senkennonei's Outlaw of the Open Fist class from his Irlslindur CS.

Quote from: supadupamanIf you want non-eastern flavoured bare handed head busting, take a look at Senkennonei's Outlaw of the Open Fist class from his Irlslindur CS.

It's a good class.  You can also make combat-oriented Western monks by replacing the monk's normal unarmed benefits with equivalent favored weapon benefits to make a weapon-master monk (or with the soulknife's mind blade ability to make a Jedi-like monk).  Those are some of my favorite monk variants, though they don't really work for the scholarly monk concept.

QuoteThat's a good suggestion, of course, and would have been perfect, but I'm trying to use only Open Game Content. Nothing from outside the SRD, Unearthed Arcana, and independent d20 publishers (unless I make it up altogether). That rules out every WotC splat book that has perfect material for peaceful scholarly types.

When I suggested you look at the archivist for inspiration, and Supadupaman suggested looking at the book of exalted deeds, I don't think either of us wanted you to cut and paste class abilities from unlicensed sources. At least I know I didn't.

Make up something yourself with flavor similar to these sources, and mechanics that match. Try using the cloistered cleric as the base from which you work, rather than the monk class. It fits what you are trying to do better than the martial arts style eastern monk of the PHB. Heck maybe even give them 8 skill points/level (since they won't have much fighting capability) and then come up with some cool new ability that fits the theme (possibly with inspiration from the apostle of peace or the archivist).

-Nasty-

QuoteFor that matter, would it make more sense for a monk (in the European sense of the word) to be a bard variant that has nothing to do with the monk class at all? (A bard variant in the sense that monks are support characters with lots of knowledge skills and buffing abilities, not bard variant in the sense that monks have bardic music.)[/

Quotethat's where i'd go with a european monk. Perhaps he gives the party resistance/cures against various supernatural attacks--charms, compulsions, negative energy attacks, whatever. (I'm seeing euromonks as studying the methods of various nasties and knowing how to combat them, or help allies combat them--and otherwise being a morale-improveing support character.)

Giving him many of the defenses of a monk seems like it would make sense. I mean, euromonks wouldn't be flipping out and killing people, but they'd still be unarmored combatants, right?

Thanks for the feedback.  The reminders about existing scholarly classes were particularly helpful, as they convinced me not to recreate existing abilities with a variant monk.

Instead, I am going with my earlier musings - and brainface's suggestions - and making a support/defensive type monk.  See the edit that I've made to the OP for details and let me know what you think of this version of my variant monk.

The new version is much better. I still think a scholarly monk needs more skill points (on par with a rogue). The bonus non-lethal damage isn't bad, although I think it could be better. Maybe + 1d6 per five levels starting at fifth. Something good, but not tied to the PHB monk in anyway, so it won't cause confusion in it's application.

The aura idea is wonderful, though the 50' radius is huge! That should definately be smaller. You could try an aura of 10' that gradually gets larger as they gain levels. Also if it's usuable once per round as free action, why not make it constant, and they can assign a new ability as a free action? that seems to make more sense to me.

Cutting down the number of uses of the aura is a bad idea I think. monks don't have any game breaking abilities in their arsenal, and some will not even be usable by the people around them most of the time (like the AC bonus)...unless the non-lethal bonus damage is available as an aura effect; that would be very potent indeed. I'm assuming however that the aura only grants (Su) effects, and that the non-lethal bonus deamage is (Ex).

I like this version and it could be awesome with some minor tweaking and clairification. I think it is balanced, though it would make a better cohort than PC. That however may just be my personal taste showing through on things however.

-Nasty-

Except for quotes from earlier posts, the content of this post is Open Game Content, as defined in the Open Game License version 1.0a Section 1(d).

Quote from: nastynateI still think a scholarly monk needs more skill points (on par with a rogue).

The bonus non-lethal damage isn't bad, although I think it could be better. Maybe + 1d6 per five levels starting at fifth. Something good, but not tied to the PHB monk in anyway, so it won't cause confusion in it's application.[/blockquote]

Yeah, that wording was kind of confusing.  I'll probably just change it to 1 die per X levels, as you suggest.  On the other hand, I think one die per 5 levels may be too much; see my response to the quote that follows.

QuoteCutting down the number of uses of the aura is a bad idea I think. monks don't have any game breaking abilities in their arsenal, and some will not even be usable by the people around them most of the time (like the AC bonus)...unless the non-lethal bonus damage is available as an aura effect...

Even though the aura itself is supernatural, it can grant extraordinary abilities, so the nonlethal damage bonus is available as an aura effect.  That - along with the ability to toggle between improved evasion and spell resistance for the entire party - was my primary reason for thinking I might want to cut back on the aura uses somewhat.

Also, if I limit the number of uses of the aura, I don't have to take away the fast movement ability from the monk.  (A continuous aura that can grant a massive enhancement bonus to speed is way too powerful, but an X per day aura that has that option is more reasonable, and more versatile than a continuous aura that can't do that.)

Quote...the 50' radius is huge! That should definately be smaller. You could try an aura of 10' that gradually gets larger as they gain levels.

I wanted the range of the aura to compete with the range of bardic music buffs, all of which easily compete with a 50' range.

(I had picked 50' because that's the raius of a bless spell.  If I were going to make the aura usable only a certain number of times per day, I was going to tie it to a bless effect that also applied to the monk's allies.)

QuoteAlso if it's usuable once per round as free action, why not make it constant, and they can assign a new ability as a free action? that seems to make more sense to me.

Good point.  Unless I decide to give it uses per day, I'll probably just make it continuous.

QuoteI think it is balanced, though it would make a better cohort than PC. That however may just be my personal taste showing through on things however.

Cohort's good enough for me.  I just want a non-combatant monk variant to be around in some capacity other than NPC class.

But I agree that I will have to do some tweaking and clarification before I finalize things.

I've editted the OP so that it now uses the format of the PHB II.  I've also simplified things a bit, so hopefully, the variant monk class features are unique, easy to use, and balanced.

Eric this latest version is brilliant! The only thing I question is if the aura converts enough damage to non-lethal damage. It scales on a level similar to damage reduction, but it doesn't actually negate any. You could probably increase the amount of damage converted, or possibly even use damage reduction in place of it (although that might be a little too powerful). Just something to consider, and this is wonderful even if you elect to leave it just as it is.

Quote from: nastynateThe only thing I question is if the aura converts enough damage to non-lethal damage. It scales on a level similar to damage reduction, but it doesn't actually negate any. You could probably increase the amount of damage converted, or possibly even use damage reduction in place of it (although that might be a little too powerful). Just something to consider, and this is wonderful even if you elect to leave it just as it is.

I'd thought about making the aura convert more damage, too.  In the end I was conservative because the monk is giving up very little to get the aura (the ability to choose three bonus feats instead of having them assigned, and a speed bonus that doesn't stack with very much).

Besides, having both lethal and nonlethal damage can effectively double the strength of healing spells used on you.  I didn't want to make parties with both a cleric and a monk too powerful.  (Otherwise, every cleric ever is going to take a monk cohort without thinking twice about it.)

Quote from: Epic_Meepo

Quote from: nastynateThe only thing I question is if the aura converts enough damage to non-lethal damage. It scales on a level similar to damage reduction, but it doesn't actually negate any. You could probably increase the amount of damage converted, or possibly even use damage reduction in place of it (although that might be a little too powerful). Just something to consider, and this is wonderful even if you elect to leave it just as it is.

I'd thought about making the aura convert more damage, too.  In the end I was conservative because the monk is giving up very little to get the aura (the ability to choose three bonus feats instead of having them assigned, and a speed bonus that doesn't stack with very much).

Besides, having both lethal and nonlethal damage can effectively double the strength of healing spells used on you. I didn't want to make parties with both a cleric and a monk too powerful.  (Otherwise, every cleric ever is going to take a monk cohort without thinking twice about it.)

Like I mentioned there's nothing at all wrong with this build as it is. It's just a little difficult for me to imagine the non-lethal conversion being too powerful, even if it does effect the whole party; your point however on the synergy it has in conjunction with a cleric is well made, and I wouldn't want the monk to be a "must have" cohort. I'm glad to see some of my suggestions helped.