The Campaign Builder's Guild

So I have had flash working overtime. Partly cause I just love drawing, but also cause I want to run a campaign. Before we really get into this I just want to say that I love creating worlds just for the sake of creating. I have come to realize how, like building with legos it is an art which requires that all the interconnecting pieces come together as flawlessly as possible. I have been quite happy so far with how my world has come together so far. But I really like to make a project more than my own, I want people to put forward their own ideas. I have my own style and I feel that things are less bland if other people integrate their styles into it instead of it just being boring old me. So anyhow, here is the world as it stands.

Map of the Region (http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/9688/karroshd6.swf)
(its an swf so you can right click and zoom in and drag it around for a better view)

Key:
Red Dot + Star: Capitol
Red Dot: City
Blue Line: Trade Route (Water)
Orange Line: Trade Route (Land)
White Line: Border
Deep Green: Heavy Forest
Green: Fertile Land
Light Green: Semi-Fertile Land
Yellow: Wasteland
Brown: Mountainous Areas
Light Blue: Shallow Water
Blue: Deep Sea

It is a very small continent (slightly smaller then Alaska). The climate is a mix of grassy plains and forests, as well as vast expanses of unfarmable wasteland. It has several groups of mountains as well as several volcanoes including 3 massive shield volcanoes that have formed over a moving hot spot (think Hawaii) which crept north till it met the tectonic plate division that is the reason for the mountains. I haven't yet done a separate graphic for them but they are the mountain on the island at the northern tip of the mountain range and the two progressively farther south and west of it).

There are six countries, they have a bit of history already.

Denkirn Republic

Denkirn is the oldest nation, at roughly 800 years of age. The first settlers to arrive landed here, at Pikes Point (named for the captain of the expedition). The settlers were from a country that was being politically and militarily pushed around and were seeking a new life away from all the trouble. After the area around Pikes Point became too crowded a group of them moved on, looking for fresh crop and grazing land. The results of that ended up leading to the formation of the cities to the south of Pikes Point, all of which prospered from the large deposits of iron they discovered in the hills and mountains of the area. About this time a group of settlers funded by the rival government landed at Gherrysol. In time this was discovered by explorers from Pikes Point. This lead to the formation of an alliance between the original cities (Pikes Point, Ridgetown, Glensdale, and Hastebay). The Denkirn Alliance would become the foundation for the government of Denkirn. The alliance never had to fight against the newcomers, and as time erased the memories of their original homelands, the Denkirn Republic and the Sovereignty of Ghent became economic partners.

Sovereignty of Ghent

When the smaller nations rival learned of the settlers attempt to colonize a newly discovered land they sent their own vessels. They landed and founded the city of Gherrysol. From their they began expanding outwards until they met explorers from the original settlers. Instead of fighting for land they sent out ships to explore the nearby mainland. This led to their expansion onto its shores and brought about a rapid colonization of the area. Denkirn later followed in this unofficially with settlers individually moving over. The resulting mix of cultures has ever after shaped the mainland. The expansion continued on, with Ghent becoming a military powerhouse from the need to fight off the native creatures (some of which were truly frightening) as well as having to quell the ever more common unrest from citizens in the east. This eventually led to the breakaway by eastern Ghent and the formation of Maegon and Nordan. Regardless of this Ghent enjoyed a great deal of prosperity thanks to numerous natural resources and a large military to protect those resources. As time wore on Ghent eventually lost all ties with its homeland and there has been no news from the west since. With Maegon to the east and an inhospitable wasteland to the north Ghent would eventually send on its own colonists. These ended up founding the nation of Clowhdrent which has over time become totally seperate from Ghent.

Democratic Republic of Maegon

The citizens of Eastern Ghent had a great deal of separation from the main governing body and little say in what happened. Their growing unrest eventually became too great and they rebelled against their home country. The war was mostly skirmishes with the great distance that had caused them grief, now aiding them. Ghents supply trains became stretched and prone to attacks from raiders. In the end the king decided to seek peace rather then suffer from the hit and run attacks that were having great effect on his troops. In the end the two sides reached an agreement and the people of East Ghent split into two new sovereign nations. The southern nation became the Democratic Republic of Maegon and has remained on friendly terms with its neighbors to the north (and on economically friendly towards Ghent).

Socialist Republic of Nordan

With the success of the civil war, the northern half of East Ghent split off, forming a socialist state. The people of Nordan have prospered greatly from their position as the hub of multiple mainland trade routes. As a culture they value interdependence and their socialist style is held up by the people themselves with major nationwide decisions made by a council of representatives from every community. Over time, Nordans expansions to the east led to the seperate nation of Kaergirk.

Democratic Republic of Kaergirk

Kaergirk is a nation that has since broken off from Nordan. It still has close ties to Nordan, both economically as well as politically.

Sovereign Nation of Clowhdrent

Clowhdrent is the result of Ghents expansion into the east. Their great distance from their home nation however has led to a completely separate state. While they still keep trade open with their home nation, they now are for all intents and purposes a sovereign body. They have a generally neutral outlook on their neighbors and have become wealthy from their fertile, vast expanses of land.

Nomadic Tribes

The descendants of colonists from the same nation as the Denkirners, they have become a series of tribes wandering the open wastes. They were the last group of colonists, however their ships foundered in a storm and beached on the mainland. Their attempts to build a town failed when they found the land all but impossible to farm. They ended up spreading out, looking for better land, many of them in time learned how to live off the wastelands and have formed family groups who wander the open desert in search of food and watering holes for their animals.



So thats basically what I have so far. It isn't anywhere near complete. I have many questions that still need to be answered and I am sure there are many others I haven't thought of yet. The history still needs to be filled in and I need to think of names for the original nations as well as various rulers and important people. So I would like any thoughts and comments on the development of this land. I am also looking at potential plot hooks so if you have ideas for placement of things that could function as such I would love to hear them (a few of my friends already gave me ideas such as the ruins of the nomad town becoming home to a nest of creatures). So please throw out your ideas, I am a bit rusty after going so long without designing something like this.



Update: The wiki can now be found here (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Unconquered_Realm:Main_page).

I like the map. It kind of reminds me of those IG continent/world maps only it's been touched up (this is good - I always thought those maps were awesome). Did you have a specific system you intended to use? What races exist? It sounds to me like this may be all-human, which is also cool. It's always nice to see this kind of setting, or at least get that vibe from one before being informed later that the other races exist :D.

Yes I was thinking of all human. I can't remember where I saw it but someone used an all human setup with the 'racial bonuses' based on where the people were from. So that is another something to figure out.

Anyhow an added note. I got talking with my sister about that bit of land on Northhaven near denkirn and west ghent. The question is... after 800 years what has stopped humans from colonizing it. One idea was that it is infested by wurms. Would make for some interesting storylines as well as a different feel to the city fortifications in the area (how does one defend against something that lives underground). So that is another thing I would like to look into. Is using that a viable option? If so how would it affect the development of settlements on northhaven and the mindset of the people?

Wurm infestatins would be unuasual, especially if there were many different types of wurms.  You have a ready made, terrorizing place to adventure, especially if there was ever anything else there for them to explore.  Or if the wurms are intelligent...

Intelligent beasts would be a frightening thing most certainly. I will have to look into that, could make for a great plot setting.

Back to the original question, is there anything standing out to anybody here that needs to be fixed? Or more importantly is there anything that you see that could make a good setting for a plot device of some kind?

On a side note I updated the map, all of the areas are now named.

--------------

Ok apparently I am not being very clear (a common problem I fear). I have many questions so I will start with the first one.

Looking at the map does anyone see any potential for plot hooks (the wurm one is being looked into)? Are there any areas that stand out and make you say "dang if you did this here that would make for an awesome quest"? I am looking for areas that I can add story/quest content too that will really draw the players in.

First -
If there is only one ocean (the Naemus Ocean, which is a good name, by the way), I don't think it would actually have a name.  If people only think of it as the ocean and there are no other oceans then it won't develop a name.  It would just be the Ocean.  Just like if we had more than one moon they both would've developed different names, but it is, instead, just the moon.  (Your best bet for keeping the name would be having a history of another continent I didn't realize about or having a religious meaning for the name.  Otherwise, I could also see you splitting it up so there is a Naemus Ocean and another ocean on the other side of the continent.  If they didn't know this little world is round that would make sense for them.  Just a thought.)  Reading on, there is more to this world so you could certainly leave it as Naemus Ocean.  I suppose, for me, it just feels awkward.  Will you be examining the rest of the world?  Also, what time frame is this -- in other words, when did the first settlers arrive on Pike's Point?

Second -
I love the map!  It has a great pseudo-hand painted style which is hard to achieve.  Furthermore, having it as a .swf is genius.  Very easy to navigate.  The political borders, however, are a bit difficult to find.  I'd bring those out more.  I'd also use two different stamps for the mountains, or change up the size of the mountains.  That's the only thing that doesn't flow in the map, in my opinion.  Otherwise, good job there!

Third -
Poor Ghent!  It just can't seem to stay in one piece.  First it loses contact with its homeland, then it fractures into three, then it makes a new colony that also becomes independent.  (Sounds like Britain.)

Fourth -
I have to ask (the political science major inside of me is curious): how did a nation develop to be both the central trade hub for a continent as well as socialist?  Unless the foreign traders are also socialist, this would be very difficult and unlikely.  Perhaps you can expand a bit more on what, exactly, you mean by communism keeping in mind that this is a trade hub.

Fifth -
As a theme, this region seems to be entirely devoid of conflict.  The closest thing we have to a war is the ancient civil war of Ghent, which ended quickly due to the king wanting a peaceful solution.  And that seems to be a theme throughout the continents, as political conflict is, instead, all given a Switzerland syndrome.  So far I'm seeing a pretty picturesque world where all conflict is in the past and the closest we come to problems arises in Clowhdrest being "neutral" toward its neighbors.  Everyone else has strong economic ties.  Not to sound like a warmonger, but was this the intention?  

Sixth -
Clowhdrest is awkward to me.  What's the point of that 'h' in the middle?

Seventh -
The wurm idea is interesting.  Are we talking giant earth-borrowing worms with segments and acidic maws?  Or draconic wyrms?  What picture are you trying to draw - I've never seen the spelling, wurm, before.  It does seem like a good solution and certainly adds conflict (in response to my #5).  

All of that having been said, let's see what happens!

QuoteFirst -
If there is only one ocean (the Naemus Ocean, which is a good name, by the way), I don't think it would actually have a name.  If people only think of it as the ocean and there are no other oceans then it won't develop a name.  It would just be the Ocean.  Just like if we had more than one moon they both would've developed different names, but it is, instead, just the moon.  (Your best bet for keeping the name would be having a history of another continent I didn't realize about or having a religious meaning for the name.  Otherwise, I could also see you splitting it up so there is a Naemus Ocean and another ocean on the other side of the continent.  If they didn't know this little world is round that would make sense for them.  Just a thought.)  Reading on, there is more to this world so you could certainly leave it as Naemus Ocean.  I suppose, for me, it just feels awkward.  Will you be examining the rest of the world?  Also, what time frame is this -- in other words, when did the first settlers arrive on Pike's Point?

Second -
I love the map!  It has a great pseudo-hand painted style which is hard to achieve.  Furthermore, having it as a .swf is genius.  Very easy to navigate.  The political borders, however, are a bit difficult to find.  I'd bring those out more.  I'd also use two different stamps for the mountains, or change up the size of the mountains.  That's the only thing that doesn't flow in the map, in my opinion.  Otherwise, good job there!

QuoteThank you, it took me a long time to make. Its still in the works though of course. I will put what you said in my list of things to do as I tend to agree with those points.

QuoteThird -
Poor Ghent!  It just can't seem to stay in one piece.  First it loses contact with its homeland, then it fractures into three, then it makes a new colony that also becomes independent.  (Sounds like Britain.)

Fourth -
I have to ask (the political science major inside of me is curious): how did a nation develop to be both the central trade hub for a continent as well as socialist?  Unless the foreign traders are also socialist, this would be very difficult and unlikely.  Perhaps you can expand a bit more on what, exactly, you mean by communism keeping in mind that this is a trade hub.

Fifth -
As a theme, this region seems to be entirely devoid of conflict.  The closest thing we have to a war is the ancient civil war of Ghent, which ended quickly due to the king wanting a peaceful solution.  And that seems to be a theme throughout the continents, as political conflict is, instead, all given a Switzerland syndrome.  So far I'm seeing a pretty picturesque world where all conflict is in the past and the closest we come to problems arises in Clowhdrest being "neutral" toward its neighbors.  Everyone else has strong economic ties.  Not to sound like a warmonger, but was this the intention?  
[/quote]
Sixth -
Clowhdrest is awkward to me.  What's the point of that 'h' in the middle?
[/quote]
Seventh -
The wurm idea is interesting.  Are we talking giant earth-borrowing worms with segments and acidic maws?  Or draconic wyrms?  What picture are you trying to draw - I've never seen the spelling, wurm, before.  It does seem like a good solution and certainly adds conflict (in response to my #5).  

All of that having been said, let's see what happens!
[/quote]
Lesser Wurm
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 4d10+20 (42 hp)
Speed: 10 ft. (2 squares) Burrow 30 ft. (6 squares)
Init: +2
AC: 19; touch 11; flat-footed 17
-1 size, +2 dex, +8 natural
BAB/Grapple: +4/+12
Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+6, 19-20/x2)
Full-Attack: Bite +10 melee (2d6+6, 19-20/x2)
Space: 10 ft.; Reach: 5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Rend (2d6+9)
Special Qualities: Tremorsense 60 ft.
Saves: Fort +10 Ref +6 Will +0
Abilities: Str 22, Dex 14, Con 20, Int 8, Wis 8, Cha 2
Skills: +8 Listen
Feats: Weapon Focus: Bite, Improved Trip
Environment: Underground
Organization: Solitary, Troupe (3-5), Nest (6-15)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: None
Alignment: Neutral
Advancement: 5-10 HD (Large), 11-15 HD (Huge)

The ground parts with a shower of debris as a hooked beak thrusts up into the air. The wurm may be small compared to others of its kind, but to most humanoids this is a massive beast not to be taken lightly. It shakes dirt off its body displaying a sleek brown head atop a long coiled form, all covered in chitinous plates. The wurm turns its eyeless face towards you and with a sudden shriek lunges, its gaping maw open and ringed with razor-sharp teeth.

Lesser Wurms are subterranean ambush predators. While they occasionally hunt for the small creatures that populate their domain, they much prefer the meat found above ground. These creatures are roughly 10 feet long and weigh about 1000 pounds. Each wurms head ends in a sharp hooked beak, which is lined with serrated teeth. They use these for tearing flesh off their prey, taking off great hunks of meat regardless of whether or not their meal is still alive. Their hide is covered in thick, bony plates which help them move through the earth, and give added protection against anything they may try to eat. Lesser Wurms can burrow through all manner of soil and rubble but cannot go through solid stone. While they can crawl on solid ground it is a difficult task that leaves them prone to attack. For this reason they are generally limited to areas where the bedrock is deep enough to support them. In the open wilderness Lesser Wurms commonly form nest groups, congregating for safety and to help bring down prey that smaller groups of wurms can't handle.

Combat:
Lesser Wurms only attack to bring down prey, or to defend their nest group. They are far more cunning then regular animals and fully capable of creating crude traps to catch unsuspecting prey by surprise. Being ambush predators by nature, Lesser Wurms rely on simple ambush tactics. A favorite of many Wurms is to dig a series of pits in a prey rich area, then ambush the prey and drive it into the pits, where it can be devoured more easily. If a Wurm finds itself over matched it will generally retreat underground for safety.
Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a Lesser Wurm must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.
Rend (Ex): A Lesser Wurm that wins a grapple check after successful bite attack establishes a hold, latching onto its opponent's body and tearing the flesh. This attack automatically deals 2d6+9 points of damage.
[/spoiler]

This again is just for Northhaven, however I am not against wurms on the mainland. This would like I said in my earlier posts, change how cities were designed. They would have thick walls that extended down to bedrock, and would be located where the bedrock tended towards the shallow side. People would likely congregate near these bastions, making them much larger then a normal city would be for a country of equivalent size. There would certainly still be settlements, but they would be found on and near rocky places (such as mountains) and you would find little or no civilization out where the bedrock is deep.

And this is just for the wurms, I was thinking of having many other types of nightmarish creatures. So yes, we will see what becomes of this. :)

I like the map, good deal.

Thanks :)

Ok there is still of course the main question (what plot hooks can you come up with looking at that map). Lets add another one that I am wondering about.

Does anybody know a good source of wurm/worm stat sheets? I did that one in the spoiler up above of. So things like that. Sure you have things like purple worms and gricks from the MM, but there really is almost no variety, and not really much that a low level adventurer can handle. I am talking level 4+ party; obviously don't want a level 1 to be able take on any type of worm as it would lessen the fear that should be so strong in regards to these deadly monsters.

On a side note the wiki can now be found here (http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/index.php?title=Unconquered_Realm:Main_page).

I like the map '" nicely drawn and it makes a lot of sense. There are a couple of things I see in it which you may wish to give some further consideration to, and since you're getting plenty of feedback on your socio-economics and politics I'll limit this post to geophysical considerations.

Your shield volcanoes look good '" I'm not sure yet just how your plate tectonics lie tho '" they could go a couple of different ways. Currently however, your water depth indicates a major trench or other sudden drop off running just off of your eastern coast. The way you have extended the mountain range through the string of island peaks off of the coast of Maegon makes a lot of sense, but would normally imply the shelf extending much further east ward '" shallow water from the drop-off due east of Noryma Is. extending south around the cape of the Grey Mountains in a (fairly) straight line. The sharp drop off implies the underwater mountain range ending in deep cliffs which would result in a great deal of seismic and/or volcanic activity all the way down the coast (and making the coastline sunami central. . .) which doesn't sound like your intention with the northern plate.

You haven't said which hemisphere this island lies in '" as drawn however, it is clearly in the southern hemisphere. The reason is that the major oceanic currents and wind patterns will run in a roughly counter-clockwise fashion '" prevailing winds would carry the moisture down out of the northeast and the mountain range will produce a rain shadow resulting in the deserts/wastes as you have depicted them. In the northern hemisphere they would water the western region and produce rain shadows on the eastern slopes. Given the arable land along the western edge of the range I would recommend when you go into more detailed terrain that you place your highest elevations (ridgeline) much closer to the eastern slop than the western '" imagine the western plate riding up over the eastern which is being pushed under the range (this would be consistent with the shallow waters extending eastward as well). The result is that the western 2/3 or ¾ of the mountains would soak up a lot of rain, creating the fertile land you've shown and feeding the Raimeil River and still produce the rain shadow further west since the clouds would have been sucked dry by the time they get there.

Okay '" 1 economic/political consideration '" I'm surprised that no-one is claiming control/responsibility for the length of the Raimeil River. It is such a major trade route (probably the most significant single route on the entire map) and bordered by a thick riparian highway concealing both banks. Without significant military presence from one or both nations at the ends of the route all the way along it river piracy would swiftly run rampant. Most likely a single warlord would eventually gain control and provide 'safe passage' in return for tribute '" a reasonably stable situation which would still irk both nations to no end and provide numerous potential plot hooks. . .The Last Saskatchewan Pirate (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHAl1tWvvPA)

Excellent ideas. See this is the kind of help I need because I have no official knowledge of that kind of stuff. I only have the basic knowledge that tells me things like "a mountain range poking out into the ocean will end in island chains" and that sort of stuff. I will see what I can do about these points.

On to the point about the Raimeil River. The wasteland that it runs through has not only some incredibly nasty creatures, it is also home to quite a few tribes. Some of them don't like foreigners running up and down 'their' river. The governments of the countries involved decided that rather then annex the territory and add to the administrative mess they would just use armed convoys instead, perhaps with heavily fortified stopping points along the river. I don't know how well that would work out just yet but it was an idea I had and another potential point to add plot hooks to. So anyhow both countries involved take part in protecting traders using the river.

A mutual river defense pact would certainly be workable. The primary concern to look at then would be expense - good trading partners will be even more concerned about insuring that they don't get stuck footing the majority of the bill. Depending on the nature(s) of the threat(s) this could be interesting - e.g. need for significant magical assets which one or the other may not have. Clearly the nomad tribes don't find the wurms quite as big a problem as their more "civilized" neighbors. . . Are their eyes by any chance solid blue?

I've found this  World Builder's Guidebook (http://www.amazon.com/Builders-Guidebook-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/0786904348/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209097244&sr=8-1) to be helpful. It isn't really edition specific in any way. It can offer some help in considering where/how plates collide or separate to determine seismic and volcanic activity. This place could have a lot of (Icelandic) geothermal phenomenon as well.

The more I look at it, the more the Lesser Wastes scream "magical desert." Rain shadow would only account for the northeastern half and the way the rivers run thru and around make it seem even more odd. The Damen and it's tributaries look aas if they should be flowing southeast to empt into the bay at the edge of the waste. Try doing a crude topo of the region from Longbeam Lake south to below Lake Plaedin - not real detailed - just play with your general elevation trends directing the water courses in the region. Heavy alkali soils might explain the extent of the lesser wastes. Are they growing to merge w/the Graem Wastes or shrinking portions of a once greater desert?

All that I've said notwithstanding, magical effects could produce a lot that would seem to defy geophysics. A large maelstrom over the ocean to the northeast could produce the weather patterns on an island in the northern hemisphere. An ancient magical cataclysm could explain a lot of wasteland, lack of human habitation (until resettled) and the presence of far more dangerous beasts than the planetary norm. The trick with all of that would be not inadvertently re-creating Anauroch (Forgotten Realms). Of course, if you wanted to use the Phaerim (FR uber-nasty monstrous magical race) then Anourach would be a great source of ideas/material.

The burning question as I look at all of this is, "What's in those deserts? How do the nomads manage not only to survive, but actually prefer living there when the neighboring countries are so peaceful?" When I first read the description I wondered about that since they would still have quickly found hospitable areas to settle. I'm guessing they made landfall on the NW coast and now live primarily in the semi-fertile regions surrounding the Raimeil River. Mongolia like arid steppes and tribes? Something makes the wastelands seem the better place to live and it's obviously not the avoidance of oppressive governments unless there's an over-riding religious problem. If so, was it one they arrived with, or developed as they explored the wastelands? Even nomads tend to trade for what they can't find/produce themselves - in this case I tend to think metals and forged items unless they have access to resources no one else knows about (and forges also require fuel). Since they're clearly well enough armed to pose a problem for the river traffic the weapons had to come from somewhere - and you can bet the merchants and politicians bordering their territories have been asking these questions for a few centuries. (Either that or they've developed some very impressive magical/psionic capabilities to make up for the lack of physical assets.) In any case, inquiring minds will no doubt be willing to pay a lot of money for less cautious minds to seek the answers.

The nomads have become expert slayers you could say. Living in a much more exposed position they have had to learn how to aggressively defend against the nasties. Life isn't easy for them but they manage where most other people would die. When they first landed many of them did die, though when they first landed they also attempted to build a fortified town (similar to the fortified towns of the nations), that didn't work out though. I am thinking of adding that as a potential area to explore (abandoned town ruins could make for a creepy place to explore).

The southern wastes though aren't from a rain shadow, they have very poor soil. The wastes to the north are from a rain shadow but I am not yet sure whether they are shrinking or growing. In regards to the topography map I can certainly do that.

Magical effects would also be interesting but I want to limit them mostly to the reason why the nature here is so nightmarish. Which brings us back to hammering out my geographic and climate based errors.

As for why the nomads are there I was thinking perhaps there is a sort of spice in the sands that they could scoop...

*hears the copyright police sirens*

...umm, nevermind...

Anyhow that is a good question that I never thought about to be honest. The nomads need a reason to stay there. Part of that is obviously that they and the nations are strangers to each other. Though that is not enough to keep them out in the desert. There has to be something, I am not yet sure what though.

Well took me awhile but here is the image:

General Topography (http://img236.imageshack.us/img236/3338/karrostopographymx3.swf)

I likely need alot of help with this as I have almost no knowledge of how to do topography in a realistic manner.

Looks good. Basic topo simply arises from plates colliding or seperating - if you have a general idea of relative plate locations (edges) and direction of movement the terrain will arise (and fall) accordingly. You might want to extend your negative elevations of key underwater features off your north and eastern coastlines as affect the volcanoes and the southern island peaks. Even without that tho' what you have here will provide you with the basic considerations for any detailed local maps you require later to support adventures.

Ok well here it is with the submarine topography. Any feedback on fixes would be awesome.

Full Topo Map (http://img236.imageshack.us/my.php?image=karrostopographyox1.swf)

Sorry to take so long getting back - was grinding hard on CeBeGia history proposal project.

Looks good. I tend to think that the eastern shelf would actually bulge outward a bit, but don't see that the current shape is unreasonable - you've taken the submerged portion of the mountain range into account now which is the main thing.

The basin between the island and mainland and related shallow trench to its south are unusual features but certainly plausible. (If the whole thing were elevated to raise your shallowest contour region above sea level the basin would be below it - probably a lot like Death Valley.) If you plan to add any aquatic races this would be a good area to take advantage of. Regardless, it's likely capable of supporting a heavy fishing industry.

Awesome, thanks for the help and ideas. I will put them into consideration.

For now I am going to start putting things together but I plan on coming back and asking more feedback once things are more built up.

Again thanks ;)

A lot of what I was talking about from the Old World Builder's Guidebook regarding geophysics in setting physical and map design (tectonic plates, climate/environment issues, etc.) can be found in this free product:  A Magical Society: Guide to Mapping (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=55266&filters=0_0_0&free=1).

I will give it a look, and if what you say is true I feel certain it will have excellent information on how to go about this in the future. Thank you very much.

Update:

I gave it a look over and am amazed by how well done it was. This is a treasure trove of knowledge and I again thank you for pointing it out to me. I have begun reworking my continent to better fit it (thanks to your help though the landmass itself now fits just fine, just need to rework the continent). From the guide I have been able to place my continent between the tropic and dry-transitional bands with a large chunk of it being wet transitional. The deserts fit thanks to the large rain shadow provided by the mountains. With all of this in mind I am moving things around a little bit trying to get them to fit together right (ah good ole legos).

Anyhow, I have come to realize though that how my map is set up and with how the world works, it would be extremely difficult to have actual nations. I am thinking instead of perhaps city states of sorts, possibly with some allied to others. This could make for some interesting variety in terms of culture and also helps make the abnormally high percentage of people in cities feel even more natural.

As to the nomads. I don't want them to be all that technologically deficient. Thus I can explain away their keeping to the less fertile and more dangerous desert by it having deposits of high grade ores (ideal for weapon and armor smithing). They comb the desert looking for this as the regular local cycles (both weather and creature migration based) force them to move to less harsh lands. This also helps explain how they are a threat to the powerful cities that trade up and down the river. Their superior weapons and armor coupled with hit and fade attacks is quite successful at taking on the armored merchant ships that float the river. That river is the only major water source in that area of the desert (the northern area will become wet transitional as it peaks up past that rain shadow) so they of course are going to come into conflict with these strangers who try to use it. The nomads will be wanderers but they consider the territory they are currently in as theirs (Nomad tribes are bound to a pact to respect other tribes current territory and avoid it. This helps prevent needless bloodshed as whoever finds the ore first usually gets it). So on that point a strange ship floating through it is violating their sacred space and when it ignores their signals to turn back and leave, is bound to be attacked. So this all hopefully explains why they live there and are so protective of the area.

I am proud to announce that the unconquered realms now has a campaign badge.

(http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/6/6d/URBadge.JPG)

Quotehttp://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/6/6d/URBadge.JPG

I am also proud to be able to award it to someone who has put alot of time and effort into helping me make this setting work. Snargash has been a great help, and without that help I wouldn't be nearly as far as I am. Thank you very much, you may wear your badge with pride as you please. :)

just skimmed that - gotta run to work, so I'll read deeply once I'm settled in in a couple of hours. Idea looks really cool tho - I like the thought of nomads actually being ahead of the curve compared to the cities for once. Implementing it realistically could be a challenge, but not an insurmountable one. Glad the source book helped you too.

I am thinking of getting my base for that off of the Saracens. Their technology and culture was equal to or more advanced then the Europeans of the time. Looking over how they operated may help with integrating the nomads realistically.

The Saracens are an excellent refrence, you may possibly want a Saladin type leader which is how a scattering of tribes of nomads can be a threat to Ghent.

I was wondering other than Ghent being "Communal" what defines the others city-states culture or differences. With Denkirn and Ghent from two different established nations form the mainland they could have rather different cultures, architecture, government style.

But i do have to ask, with all the rebellion, civil war, succession, and what not.. all of them are one "awsome" terms? Not one of them is still harboring a grudge? :)

I have done away with the nations (except as a reference from the colonization days). Now days the cities are independent (with some forming loose alliances). I updated this info on the wiki but I should probably say it here.


The original settlers arrived at Pikes Point and spread out from there forming Denkirn. They were fleeing the invasion of their country by a much more powerful enemy nation. The enemy nation didn't want its enemy to have free reign of this new land so it sent its own settlers. They set up shop at Gherrysol and formed the nation of Ghent. Both new nations expanded to fill much of Northhaven. Ghent continued to get aid from its homeland for awhile and expanded to the mainland. Its expansion uncovered some nasty surprises but nothing they couldn't handle with heavily fortified cities. About this time someone found a way into the previously inaccessible valley in southern Northhaven (heh that sounds funny). Unfortunately in the process they opened up the blockage that had stopped nightmarish creatures in the valley from reaching the rest of Northhaven. Chaos ensued as entire cities were destroyed by these horrors. The only places to survive where heavily fortified major cities. The resulting chaos fractured the young nations (the lack of new ships arriving from its homeland further tearing apart Ghent). It took a long time for humans to regain a foothold on their territory. Even now though, they are dependant heavily on their fortress cities to keep them safe from the outside world. Trade takes place but it is with heavily armed and armored caravans. People freely wander out to explore the vast wilderness, but many are never heard from again.

So then we have a land of many different factions. City states and city state alliances. Wandering nomads who have managed to learn how to coexist with nature travel the wastes, getting powerful off the rare ores and herbs found within. So it is a very hostile world. And yes the city states aren't all chums. Some vehemently hate each other. However, the danger of moving an army through land to attack an enemy city has limited the area to very few wide scale engagements. Raids though are another matter, happening quite regularly between enemy forces.

Thanks to this split of power between so many factions, the nomadic tribes are actually quite powerful (they are more organized then the city states are... though there numbers aren't as high).

I gotta tell you I like this version much better in terms of anticipated playability - fracturing your political map can provide a lot of possibilities. I could see you wanted to move the setting away from large scale conflicts (wars, major trade stuff, etc.) but this will allow you to set up a delicate - dynamic - balance rather than a very static, everyone happy kind of status quo. A lot of adventures can be created which in some manner help to preserve the status quo here - in an of itself a potential major goal. Remember, Uncle Nicky grew up in the Italian city states. You can go as heavy handed or as subtle as you like - both even, and done right, your players won't even be sure which is which. Bug hunts have more to offer since they're as much an obstacle to other adventures as bounty targets themselves. You now have potential high-risk ruins with significant treasure options over-run with plausible monsters.

Re: nomad metallurgy, one thing about a fantasy world is you can reasonably make slight changes in reality with major ramifications. Usually forge technology develops first from improving purification techniques followed by alloy and crafting techniques. Here you could easily present the nomads with what at first seemed like a low-grade, impure iron ore in near-surface deposits which were/are easy to mine. Once first used though, it could have become obvious that the impurities actually improved the metal's properties. It doesn't have to be a something "real." City states become stuck doing things the old fashioned way - hard rock mining in the mountains, etc., producing standard grade metal products, at significant risk to life and limb. . .

I like that idea very much. It would mesh smoothly and would work well with nomadic tribes (who can't exactly cart around a huge blast furnace). Another question I am thinking of. Instead of different species there will be different races of humans. There are those of course that we can see right now clearly such as the nomadic tribes and the city dwellers of the islands and the mainlands. There are some that I am not so sure about but we can separate out all the different peoples as we go. Anyhow the question is, how best to go about the crunch/fluff for different races. I want to keep them balanced and in key with their regions and culture. So for example the nomads might have a higher than normal resilience thanks to living all their life in a harsh environment. This might give them a +2 constitution bonus. I am still not sure about the others, anybody have any ideas?

Well, growing up in certain towns might produce a CHR bonus - a culture very heavy into politics and or/trade might well display a population very skilled in their social interactions.  WIS as a matter of alertness and perception might be developed, but it would be harder to produce a rational for a particularly "wise" culture. Part of the trouble tweeking ability scores is that they cover a lot of applications. Fast reflexes might develop in some environments but that would make the population better archers. You'll do much better focusing on skill bonuses/penalties and certain feats.

You're kind of looking at applying regional templates (for culture and/or physical environment) to humans. Try getting an idea of what it's like to live (where ever), describe the effect this would have and offer a little bit of crunch that reflects the descriptions. Of course, what I'm suggesting is only my preferred process. Clearest examples of its use are my dwarves (Rimenosha) and the aquatic ("monster") race, the Wahnahleesharah - both started with a sort of tactile/kinesthetic visualization/meditation upon what it would be like living in their physical environments. I would approach this with a similar exercise to immerse in what it would be like living in a given city/culture (including environmental elements) - putting myself there and then describing how I would be different from how I am now because of it. The thing to consciously avoid regardless of process would be overly min/maxing the templates into instant crunchberries. 2nd ed. Forgotten Realms did a decent job of regional kits that didn't go overboard - they were meant as minor things which could be stacked w/class kits (which sometimes were a bit much).

I like that idea. Here is my attempt at doing that. Tell me what you think. Is it too good? Does it need more? Etc...

Quote from: RaceNorhavers

The plentiful resources of Western Northhaven have made the area renown for its craftsmanship, especially in ironworking. The cities here are home to the largest forges in the entire realm, with the Grand Forge in Glensdale towering over the rest of the cities buildings. From a young age, Norhave children are taught the basics of metalworking. Though in the end not everyone takes up the hammer, yet the area still enjoys the largest and most skilled population of smiths. Their traditional passing on of smith craft has guaranteed them a spot as a prominent trade point.

Stats:
+2 bonus to craft checks involving metalworking
+1 bonus to appraise checks for metal items

Norhave Cities:
Pikes Point
Ridgetown
Hastebay
Glensdale

You can probably go a little further, if it looks like it would warrant a level adjustment you've gone too far. If it's close (add another feat or skill bonus and you'd need to adjust level) but *all* the templates are equivalent, you'll probably be okay but may need to make opponents a little tougher (max the HP for the first monster hit die or two, elite rather than average arrays for NPCs, etc.) Environmental racial variants (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm) should provide a good idea while racial paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm) will demonstrate passing the upper limit as they constitute full class levels. You will probably want to make some of the bonuses a little more "useful" krunchwise - I'm afraid few players will see any deciding difference between a +2/+1 craft/appraise benefit and say, +2/+1 perform/bluff, (tho' I could certainly find ways to do more with the latter in-game) making character's home-of-origin pretty irrelevant to them. Balanced against a CON bonus to nomads, its no mystery which they'll choose. . . (The latter could be scaled down as bonuses to Survival and Ride.)

A note about your example and verisimilitude, unless the city is situated at a major trade junction through which an abundant and wide variety of ores pass, they're not likely to develop that broad of a metal craft skill. Different ores will come from different geological sources - some combinations are certainly possible. e.g., Copper and tin appear relatively close to each other in Thailand (where bronze was most likely first discovered by accident) but most places had to get the minerals from two different sources; copper was abundant around the Mediterranean basin, but the Romans imported most of their tin from colonies in Cornwall. Kingdoms may develop diverse metal trades but the geographic limitations of city states will tend to produce economies based upon monopolies or near-monopolies of various resources and commodities, mineral and otherwise. (And fierce rivalry and/or price fixing within the near-monopolies.) W. Northhaven sounds like a "rust-belt" state in this case.

I also applaud your move towards city-states.  Snargash's notes (and a good Breakdown of some of the best of 'Guns, Germs, and Steel') about resource management and trade routes was nice.   His earlier comments about the racial kits from 2e is more in keeping for what I like to do with character bonuses.
what type of steed do the nomads ride?

The nomads don't have steeds yet as I am unsure how best to implement that just yet. The resource thing is interesting. However Northhaven in general is a major traders stopover so I could see its cities flowing with trade goods, especially ores since I do want to make them prominent smithy locations.

As to race creation this is a bit difficult for me, I have never dabbled much in creating races or creatures so I am a bit stuck with what is an ok level to put them at. Any ideas would be appreciated. I will look over the links given of course though. Its just a process that I may end up needing help with.

This is tough so for the time being I will simply work on the fluff. Crunch will hopefully come about after I have the fluff in order. So please ignore the previous statements on racial bonuses for now. However I am open to your interpretations of how best to turn this fluff into crunch.

Paolis/Paolian (Pow-lees/Pow-lee-an)
The Paolian peoples are descendants of the first settlers to Northhaven. They are a pragmatic group who generally see more importance in utility than beauty. This echoes through their culture, even back to the days of the arrival. It is said that when Edward Pike founded the town of Pikes Point, the first thing placed wasn't a statue or a flag, but the foundations of a wood mill. Their utilitarian outlook continues on even today, long after the government of Denkirn failed and left the Paolian cities to fend for themselves.
The primary Paolian settlements echo their builders pragmatism. The grandest buildings within their walls are not the palaces or churches, but the forges and mills. This has not gone unnoticed by other peoples and the Paoli enjoy a constant influx of travelers and merchants, many of them eager to make use of their vast industry.

Culture:
The Paoli place great importance on hard work and slothful tendencies are greatly frowned upon. By the age of five Paolian children are maintaining the home while their parents are hard at work, commonly at one of the vast workshops. Generally the children have been apprenticed to a master of a craft before they even reach puberty. Apprentices work in large groups under their headmaster, attempting to master their chosen profession. Most succeed in becoming general craftsmen of their chosen school, however a select few can find themselves quickly climbing the ranks towards a headmasters position of their own.
Meanwhile, in the ranks of the nobility can be found some of the hardest workers of all. The noble families got to where they did through diligence and great effort put towards their community. Nobles who show lazy tendencies can quickly find themselves without a title. As a whole they are generally brought up as overseers. As an overseer a noble is required to take part in the most dangerous jobs and to be available as often as possible. Their stations pay well and are a great honor to hold, but a great burden is placed upon them to uphold the traditions of society. Many nobles have given up their positions because of the overwhelming responsibility.

Appearance:
The Paoli tend towards a lean yet rugged appearance. By adulthood most Paolians have well callused hands and somewhat tan skin. As a people they tend towards darker hair, especially black. The men normally keep their hair trimmed short, including their beards which are rarely more than goatees and simple mustaches. The women however grow their hair out straight and long, normally tying it up with cords into simple buns or ponytails. Their eyes are generally dark like their hair, browns and dark greens are prevalent among the Paoli. Clothing in Paoli society is like the culture, utilitarian. Even womens dresses are adorned with hoops and pockets for holding tools and items. Colors are generally basics such as brown and gray and others that don't show wear and dirt as well.

Settlements:
The Paolian people have since spread out and they can in some shape or form be found in nearly every city on both Northhaven and Kharoyl. However their culture is most prevalent in Western Northhaven, especially in the cities that their ancestors first founded. After the founding of Pikes Peak the Paoli expanded southward, founding the settlements of Ridgetown, Grayhollow, Hastebay, and Glensdale as well as numerous smaller settlements. The opening of the pass led to the destruction of most of them. All that remains are the grand cities with the exception of Grayhollow, it having been overrun by wurms. Much time has passed, yet each of the Grand Paolian City States still retains its utilitarian architecture. This has lended the area a unique feel not seen elsewhere.