The Campaign Builder's Guild

So... just finished the rough layout of the adventure I'm planning to run on Tuesday. I'm counting on 2 of my buddies to play it - however, I have no idea what race/class combos they'll pick. To give the party some additional stamina (and to be able to throw some more mobs at them) I'm planning on including a warforged paladin as a NPC.

The adventure itself is nothing complicated. First, escort for a merchant (and getting attacked twice). Second, pursuing kobolds who have raided a farm and kidnapped a girl (skill challenge included ;) ). Third, bug busters. :D

Now, do you have anything to add to the adventure? What's your general impression about it? Too much handwavium? Not enough? I hope I can guide my group with the few NPCs that are involved in the right direction. I hope I'm not using too many minions... :-|

So, what do you think?


File: 1212975971_233_FT0_pol1__a_glimmer_of_hope.pdf (//../../e107_files/public/1212975971_233_FT0_pol1__a_glimmer_of_hope.pdf)

// Edit:
Yes, I know the writeup of the NPC sucks. I was lazy. And tired... :P

The following are my notes as I read through the adventure:

I like how you have a hook for each character class.

I can't say anything about the encounters as I am still waiting for my copy of the books..

Btw, I read something once that you should never let a DMPC outshine the player characters. In 3.5 you could make it a bit lower level, but I am not sure about 4e (and your players are level 1). Based on that, I am not sure if I would have Guardian lie around over 2 dozen kobolds. But it is your call. :)

I like the skill challenge of catching up with the kobolds.
The History skill would only be able to be used once, correct? Possibly the same with the nature skill (or you have to make a different check between each use of nature).
What about something like the track skill (if anything like that is still in the game?)

I see a problem if the players want to escort Gerom to the city before going after the kobolds. In that case, they shouldn't have any possibility of catching up with the kobolds at least.

Your bloodied value and healed from healing surge on Guardian seems a bit off (I am guessing you forgot to update those when you increased his hp).


Besides that, good stuff :)

Quote from: NeubertThe following are my notes as I read through the adventure:

Thanks for your comments.

Quote from: NeubertI like how you have a hook for each character class.

The first session would be completely spend with character creation and getting some background for them (I intend making them use Neceros's 10 Minute background (http://www.neceros.com/forum/index.php?automodule=downloads&showfile=12) ;) ). The adventure is just something for them to do afterwards.

Quote from: NeubertI can't say anything about the encounters as I am still waiting for my copy of the books..

Still waiting? :huh: Damn, that sucks. :(

Quote from: NeubertBtw, I read something once that you should never let a DMPC outshine the player characters. In 3.5 you could make it a bit lower level, but I am not sure about 4e (and your players are level 1). Based on that, I am not sure if I would have Guardian lie around over 2 dozen kobolds. But it is your call. :)

I know what you're trying to say, but is primarily used as a storytelling device (and well possible).

First, it explains why the following encounters with the kobolds are low in number.

Second, warforged have a nifty racial power giving them temp HP and some healing once they become bloodied.

Third, I've given the paladin powers that represent the situation (Valiant strike, eg, gives you a better attack bonus the more enemies are around you), and Lay on Hands allows him to use healing surges as a minor action. (It only says: "target touched", so I honestly can't see a reason why this couldn't be the paladin himself).

Fourth: all those kobolds were minions, thus going down in a single hit. Also, they only have +5 vs Guardian's AC 20 for their attacks, thus only 1 out of 4 attacks would actually hit.

And fifth: he would have used most if not all of his resources (healing potion, healing surges, second wind, action point), essentially going nova on the kobolds' asses. :D

Quote from: NeubertI like the skill challenge of catching up with the kobolds.
The History skill would only be able to be used once, correct? Possibly the same with the nature skill (or you have to make a different check between each use of nature).

To be honest, I don't know. Perhaps a second or third History check allows the players to recall better, where exactly the ruins were. And follow up Nature checks would reveal a bit more about kobolds.

Quote from: NeubertWhat about something like the track skill (if anything like that is still in the game?)

Tracking has been rolled into Perception.

Quote from: NeubertI see a problem if the players want to escort Gerom to the city before going after the kobolds. In that case, they shouldn't have any possibility of catching up with the kobolds at least.

Yes. Deciding to continue escorting Gerom will make them automatically fail the skill challenge. Also, it's possible that Guardian will try to follow the kobolds alone (getting himself killed ultimately), and the kobolds will perhaps have sacrificed the girl to Tiamat already.

If you look at the distances, the characters lose over 2 days if they go to Fallcrest first (Burned Farm -> Fallcrest = 1 day, Fallcrest -> Burned Farm = 1 day, Burned Farm -> kobold lair = 1 day). Also, the Perception DC in the skill challenge will increase by at least 5 points.

Quote from: NeubertYour bloodied value and healed from healing surge on Guardian seems a bit off (I am guessing you forgot to update those when you increased his hp).

Yeeah, I know. Already corrected them after reading your comment. I added toughness later on (completely forgot his first level feat :-/ ) and forgot to adjust the bloodied and healing surge numbers accordingly. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quote from: NeubertBesides that, good stuff :)

Thanks! :D I hope it's as fun to play as it is to read.

"I intend making them use Neceros's 10 Minute background"
Hehe, I just read the thread about that one :)

I'd like to hear how it all ends up. :)
When do you expect to be done with the adventure?

I just went to check my mail box... My books are here a day early! Hurray! :D

Quote from: Neubert"I intend making them use Neceros's 10 Minute background"
Hehe, I just read the thread about that one :)

I find it a pretty cool idea. It gives the DM something to work with and helps the players to get a feel for their characters, without forcing them to write up a 3 part saga about their characters' youths. :D

Quote from: NeubertI'd like to hear how it all ends up. :)

Me too. ;)

Quote from: NeubertWhen do you expect to be done with the adventure?

You mean how long it would take to play through? No idea. I estimate it would take perhaps 4 to 6 hours, depending on how much my buddies are into it. :D

// Edit:

Quote from: NeubertI just went to check my mail box... My books are here a day early! Hurray! :D

Hey, grats! :D Happy reading (and gaming)!

"You mean how long it would take to play through?"
You said the first session will mostly be character generation, so just wondered when the adventure would be over? The Tuesday after I suppose?

Quote from: Neubert"You mean how long it would take to play through?"
You said the first session will mostly be character generation, so just wondered when the adventure would be over? The Tuesday after I suppose?

Ahhh, that one. Ok, I've been expressing myself pretty badly in that case. :(

What I meant is that I want them to not only whip up some stats and call it a character, I also want them to give their characters a bit more depth and thought. Also, I want to discuss the campaign with them, what they'd prefer (more combat, more social stuff, more mystery, etc) and where they can imagine the campaign to go.

While I'm not negative on "kick in the door" style one shot adventures, when I start a campaign I take a different approach.

Just read it through, looks straightforward but still useful.  I'm not sure why 4e stresses burying the fallen so much (it came up in "Into the Shadowhaunt") but I would only give charatces credit if it's role-playing, ie a cleric or paladin rather than a rogue just looking for xp.

I might spread out the kobolds, maybe allowing an ambush as the PC's follow and taking an extra encounter out of the lair to compensate, varying the adventure.  A fight on a forest trail is different than 3 back-to-back tunnel fights.  This could also demonstrate how much more dangerous kobolds are at home, where they have traps to rely on.  Also, I didn't see any traps for the lair, you might want to consider some simple pits at least, based on the kobold reputation for trap-crafting and once again, more variety in combat.  Maneuvering around a pit or carefully placed difficult terrain changes up a combat drastically.  I know that difficult terrain really threw the party for a loop on Game Day, resulting in the collapse of 2 party members.

Also, be very wary of the DMPC.  An early death is the best way to deal with this, I think.  If he falls to an ambushers arrow, he serves his purpose but then is promptly removed from the scene.  He might also charge the PC's with retrieving the farmer's daughter, giving them more heroic motive.

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueJust read it through, looks straightforward but still useful.

Thanks, I guess. ;)

I know it's quite simple, but as an introduction to 4E I guess it will work quite well.

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueI'm not sure why 4e stresses burying the fallen so much (it came up in "Into the Shadowhaunt") but I would only give charatces credit if it's role-playing, ie a cleric or paladin rather than a rogue just looking for xp.

I never even took a look at "Into the Shadowhaunt". It's just something I got from reading a bit of the world info of the default setting, especially the "civilized folks work together and help each other" thing. Additionally, I get the feeling that the default setting is a bit more like Barsaive (Earthdawn), which would make proper burial quite important (you don't want to have self-risen undead on the basically only save roads).

Also, the players won't necessarily know they get the XP for burying the corpses. ;)

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueI might spread out the kobolds, maybe allowing an ambush as the PC's follow and taking an extra encounter out of the lair to compensate, varying the adventure.  A fight on a forest trail is different than 3 back-to-back tunnel fights.  This could also demonstrate how much more dangerous kobolds are at home, where they have traps to rely on.  Also, I didn't see any traps for the lair, you might want to consider some simple pits at least, based on the kobold reputation for trap-crafting and once again, more variety in combat.  Maneuvering around a pit or carefully placed difficult terrain changes up a combat drastically.  I know that difficult terrain really threw the party for a loop on Game Day, resulting in the collapse of 2 party members.

I know that kobolds may be better aided with traps. However, I'm also still new to the system (and took a quite long break from DMing myself), therefore I don't want to get too much into one encounter. I just know that if I do, I'll just mess something up. :(

Quote from: Rose Of MontagueAlso, be very wary of the DMPC.  An early death is the best way to deal with this, I think.  If he falls to an ambushers arrow, he serves his purpose but then is promptly removed from the scene.  He might also charge the PC's with retrieving the farmer's daughter, giving them more heroic motive.

In a larger group I would fully agree with you. However, I've only got two players, and I don't even know the race/class of their characters yet. If something goes wrong I'm very likely to quickly have a TPK at hand, which wouldn't be fun for anyone. Therefore I'm rather having an NPC accompany the party.

Ra-Tiel, I agree that it is a good idea to keep it easy, but the opportunity to see the players faces when they are fighting and suddenly fall into a pit is too good to miss. Mind if I run this adventure for my players (with added trap and ambush)? :D

Quote from: NeubertRa-Tiel, I agree that it is a good idea to keep it easy, but the opportunity to see the players faces when they are fighting and suddenly fall into a pit is too good to miss.

Hehe. Now, I'll see what I have in mind for them in follow up adventures. *needs a "plotting" emot* :P

Quote from: NeubertMind if I run this adventure for my players (with added trap and ambush)? :D

No, of course not. I wanted to add that anyway. So, everyone who wants to run the adventure: feel free to do so. :)

// Edit:
In addition to my plotting from above, I think that 4E gives me a chance to run one of my favorite Shadowrun scenes in a fantasy setting. In 4E divination magic is not all over the place, and the divination rituals are either heavily restricted, or only last for a very short duration.

Imagine the following scene: A nobleman (let's call him "N") approaches the PCs and asks for their help. His daughter ("D") has been abducted by a rival from another noble house ("R") to gain an advantage on N. R plans to use D as a means to pressure N into agreeing to some bad decisions in the court or something. N reveals that R is known for his seedy past, and that he is not above using drugs and magic on those who oppose him (and this would probably be the case why D wouldn't recognize her rescuers). N promises anything to the PCs, for as long as they only bring back his beloved daughter.

[spoiler=Now, the twist is...]In fact N is the bad guy. N wants to have R's daughter abducted to gain an advantage on R. The guards R placed to protect his daughter are labeled "mercs" by N to confuse the PCs and keep their conscience down. If the PCs fail to seriously investigate R's and N's relationship with each other, as well as the pending decisions in court, they will commit several murders and an abduction of an innocent girl.[/spoiler]

Yeah... in Shadowrun this works equally well, just make R and N Johnson's of two rival concerns.

A scene like this would never work in 3.5 because there are so many divination spells that completely spoil things like this, starting with discern lies and scrying at level 7.

You are evil! Remind me always to stay on the same side of the screen as you :P

Quote from: NeubertYou are evil! Remind me always to stay on the same side of the screen as you :P

Lol! :D I'll take that as a compliment.  :demon:

Quote from: Neubert[...] I'd like to hear how it all ends up. :) [...]

[spoiler=Status report]I got to my buddy ("M") at 1pm. He informed me, that my other buddy ("A") had to work and wouldn't be there until 8pm. Ok, I watched him playing Mass Effect for a bit (and making fun of his completely misskilled characters :D ), before we got to character creation. M made a human wizard, and the Neceros Background was put to good use. The wizard actually felt already like a real rpg character and not like a bunch of stats from D2.

Ok, comes 8:45pm and A joins finally. However, he brings his girlfriend ("H") with him. A and H express their will to both play, and we start character creation with them. While I explain the races and classes, A listens and H reads a book. Later H says that she didn't listen and flips through the races chapter just to play "what she found to be the most pretty".

At 9pm, M's girlfriend and wife-to-be ("N") comes home. Now, for the next two and a half hours A and H practice dancing with M and N for M's and N's marriage in around two weeks. Before going downstairs, A told me that I could finish their characters and we could play later.

At 10:30pm I resign to reading the Ctrl-Alt-Del webcomic and put my stuff back in the bag.

At 11:30pm A and H leave.

At 12:45pm I go home completely pissed and frustrated.[/spoiler]

Therefore, I have no idea how the adventure works out, how long it takes to play through, and if the encounters are ok for a level 1 party.

*sigh*

(Yes, I am venting my frustration. Why are you asking? :P )

Yeah, I saw that in the Tavern. :(
If you don't mind me asking, how old are your players?

Quote from: NeubertYeah, I saw that in the Tavern. :(
If you don't mind me asking, how old are your players?

M is around 30, A and H are around 26, and N is around 27.

Anyway, if someone else ran the adventure I'd be glad to get some feedback. :)

I am considering running this as an introduction to 4e for my players. I'll gladly provide feedback, though I don't think I will include the warforged. Or rather, I might change him to another race and make him mortally wounded or die in an ambush (I plan on having 5 players, so the encounters will be beefed up a bit).

Quote from: NeubertI am considering running this as an introduction to 4e for my players. I'll gladly provide feedback, though I don't think I will include the warforged. Or rather, I might change him to another race and make him mortally wounded or die in an ambush (I plan on having 5 players, so the encounters will be beefed up a bit).

Cool! :D

As said, the warforged was only there as the emergency backup for a 2 player party. I'd rather have an accompanying NPC and a little too easy encounters, than a TPK in the second battle.

Hey Ra-Tiel (and other 4e people).
I figured you might like to read the following:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229919

Quote from: NeubertHey Ra-Tiel (and other 4e people).
I figured you might like to read the following:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=229919

Interesting. We didn't made it yet to the skill challenge, so I can't comment on how it worked for me and my players. But thanks for the link, I'm sure keeping an eye on that. :)




Ahhhh, I'm getting old, already forgetting stuff I wanted to post... :-| :P

So, tuesday we finally got around playing AGoH. We didn't get very far, which was most likely due to my extensive descriptions and "easy going" regarding roleplaying and exploration.

[spoiler=The first session...]
The party make up was simple (and it was a good thing I still had my notes for a 2 player party):
(1) human wizard (control wizard):
- Magic Missile
- Ray of Frost
- Thunderwave
- Icy Terrain
- Flaming Sphere
(2) eladrin fighter (great weapon fighter):
- Cleave
- Reaping Strike
- Passing Attack
- Villain's Menace

The introduction of each PC worked quite well. The hooks mentioned in the adventure worked quite well, and the PCs' backgrounds fit perfectly.

The first days of travel went by without incident. The mean a**hole I am, I decided to mess with the players a bit, and described that once they were about one day's travel away from the last settlement, at night no sound of animals was heard, no mice or foxes or other things running around, and their horses went lethargic. At day everything was fine. This was giving them the "wtf?" for the whole evening, and already sparked an idea in my head for a future high level adventure.

Then came the goblin ambush (2 blackblades, 2 cutters). The party was just about to make a rest at a small shallow river, when the wizard noticed movement in a nearby group of bushes and trees. He shouted a warning, and placed an Icy Terrain adminst the goblins, killing one cutter, injuring one blackblade and slowing down the rest. The fighter was without his weapons (he went for longspear and shortbow, which were just lying on the dwarf's wagon) leading the horses to the water together with the dwarf as the goblins attacked.

The blackblades got out of the difficult terrain and charged the fighter and the dwarf, while the last cutter went for the wizard. Both blackblades missed, and the cutter didn't quite reach the wizard. The horses went mad and stormed away, as did the dwarf, leaving the fighter facing the blackblades alone in difficult terrain (the shallow river).

While the fighter was constantly missing with his attacks, loosing his encounter power to a rolled 8, the wizard made short work of the cutter with a Thunderwave. He then joined the frustrated fighter who just couldn't manage to roll higher than a 10 in the fray against the blackblades, using the Thunderwave's push to devestating effect (the wizard had Wis 14).

After one blackblade went down, the other tried to flee. The fighter hit with his OA, but inflicted not enough damage to take it down, and decided to run for the wagon to get his bow the next round. The wizard kept chasing the blackblade and fired his Magic Missiles at him, rolling very low damage. The next round the fighter got to his bow, the wizard took down the fleeing blackblade, and the fighter shot an arrow into the falling corpse with a rolled 19.

After recollecting the horses and calming down the dwarf, the party went on with their rest and then continued to Nenlast. Once they reached the village, the dwarf went about his old-friends business, and the PCs did some great roleplaying with the inhabitants. The fighter was swarmed with the children, who had never before seen an eladrin, and handled the situation very well (showing off his Fey Step ability several times to entertain the youngsters :D ), and the wizard did some good talking with his old mentor (a level 4 wizard who went to Nenlast for retirement).

The next day, the party took to the road again, making the way southwards to Fiveleague House without incident. In the middle of the night, the violet lightning event really messed them up, and the dwarf hinted that the location may be on the far west end of the Vale, which led the wizard to the conclusion it had something to do with the ancient Rakshasa shrine, the Temple of Yellow Skulls.

After a good breakfast, the party continued with their journey, making their way to the west. In the late afternoon, the shadows already getting longer again, the party come to a wooden bridge over a stream whose edge is too steep to cross it without the bridge. On the bridge, they see a single guy in chainarmor and a helbard to his feet. The wizard makes a crazily good Perception check (yet not good enough to see everything) and notices 2 figures hiding under the bridge. The party already expects an ambush.

The fighter walks up to the man, stopping 20 ft before him, talking with him. The bandit demands 10 gold from each for a "save passage", which the fighter declines. In return, the fighter tries to Intimidate the bandit, which fails (again to a very poor roll). The bandit lets his helbard jump into his hands, the fighter Fey Steps behind him and initiative is rolled.

The bandit goes first, trying to knock the fighter prone with his Power Strike, but misses. The four thugs climb out from under the bridge, two at each end. Two thugs gang up with the bandit on the fighter, the two others try to get at the wagon and the rest. The dwarf quickly flees into the wagon, and the wizard makes one thug crispy with his Flaming Sphere. The fighter lands a critical hit with his Villain's Menace, dealing a whopping 24 points of damage to the bandit, but is beaten up by 15 points in return from the thugs and the bandit the next round.

The wizard moves the Flaming Sphere up to the thug attacking him on the wagon and basically incinerates him - completely forgetting that the horses were not trained for combat, and the glowing ball of fire that just rolled by makes them go wild again. The fighter meanwhile finishes off the bandit and Cleaves the thug behind him.

While the wizard is making Acrobatics checks to not fall off the wagon and be run over, the fighter puts the last thug out of commission. After three rounds of the horses running across the plains uncontrolled, the wizard finally manages to get a hold of the reins with Mage Hand (had him roll an attack Int vs AC to simulate the chaotic circumstances and the stress, but he rolled a 18, which was enough even without his Int bonus). He also succeeded at his Nature check to get the horses slow down and calm down a bit.

The dwarf was seriously worked up right now, and had to take a deep gulp from a bottle as soon as he got off the wagon. The party looked through what was left of the bandits, and decided to loot the helbard and the ruined chainarmor (hey, that bandit was basically run through by the fighter with his finishing blow :P ), and are going to sell it in Fallcrest.
[/spoiler]

That's where we had to stop. So far I'm quite pleased with the system. The monster writeup includes everything you need to run the monster right out of the book, no more paging through the PH to get a description of the feat one mob is using or something like that. The combat system runs quite smoothly, I especially like the simplified OA rules (AoOs always ground combat to a hold in 3.5, at least from my experience).

As for selling mundane equipment, I'm going with a 25% selling rate, similar to magic items' 20% selling rate. It seems a bit wrong that you won't ever get anything sold that's not shiny or magical.

Anyway, I'm really looking forward to the next session (which may be only in three weeks due to one buddy's honeymoon) and how the party will handle the kobolds and the giant spiders. :D

However, one thing I've noticed: if you create encounters with ~100 - 150 XPs per player it's quite easy for them. I guess if the party didn't have a wizard the minions would have a greater impact, but for now I'm considering bumping the combats by another 100 or even 150 XPs in non-minions to give the PCs a little run for their money. ;)

Thanks for the recap :)

In regards to your comment: "and already sparked an idea in my head for a future high level adventure."
- What kind of adventure did you think of?

Quote from: NeubertThanks for the recap :)

No problemo. :D

Quote from: NeubertIn regards to your comment: "and already sparked an idea in my head for a future high level adventure."
- What kind of adventure did you think of?

The fighter, while describing the situation to the wizard's mentor, used the words "as if the life was sucked out of them at night". Well, should be pretty obvious where this train's heading, eh? ;) The nearby Thunderspire, with the rumors of the remains of an ancient minotaur kingdom beneath did the rest.

In short, the minotaur kingdom is gone, but not so its spellcasters who remain as lichs and ghosts. They perform some necromantic ritual mojo to bring themselves back to life, using the night as a casting focus to draw on the life force of the weaker and dumber animals, and only in low slices as to not alert the surface dwellers to their machinations. The ritual they are using is weakened or blocked by the signs of modern civilization ("too much intellect there") and therefore doesn't affect animals in or close to settlements.

Something along these lines. As said, it's just a rough idea right now and needs some refinement until it's ready to play. I imagine it being a mid-paragon tier adventure.