Need some feedback, please!
The numbers are based purely off of the standards set on page 180 of the 43 PHB in regard to Knowledge checks. The prices are based on 3.5 Craft entry, as are the times for completion. I used Perception, simply because I do not want to introduce any new Skills to the game.
Armorsmithing
(fluff)
Level: 1
Category: Craft
Time: Days equal to the base DC (15, 20, 25)
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: 1/3 book price
Market Price: Special
Key Skill: Perception
Perception Check Result Effect
15-19 Light and Heavy shield
20-24 Cloth, Leather and Hide armor
25 + Chain, Scale and Plate armor
Master Armorsmithing
(fluff)
Level: 11
Category: Craft
Time: Days equal to the base DC (25, 30, 35)
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: 1/3 book price
Market Price: Special
Key Skill: Perception
Perception Check Result Effect
25-29 Light and Heavy shields have +1 AC and -1 Check
30-34 Feyweave, Feyleather, Darkhide armor
35 + Forgemail, Wyrmscale, Warplate armor
Expert Armorsmithing
(fluff)
Level: 21
Category: Craft
Time: Days equal to the base DC (30, 35, 40)
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: 1/3 book price
Market Price: Special
Key Skill: Perception
Perception Check Result Effect
30-34 Light and Heavy shields have +2 AC and -2 Check
35-39 Starweave, Starleather, Elderhide armor
40 + Spiritmail, Elderscale, Godplate armor
Specific Notes:
Standard Artisan's Tools (15gp, Weight 33lbs) are required or Armorsmithing, Master Artisan's Tools are required for Master Armorsmithing (30gp, Weight 33lbs) and Epic Artisan's Tools (30gp, Weight 33lbs) are required for Epic Armorsmithing.
All Rituals can be assisted with.
These Rituals cannot be rendered to scroll, and must be learned through book or teaching (which fufills the requirements to learn the Ritual).
Market Price I am entirely unsure of. What does it truly cost to teach someone how to Armorsmith?
Instead of using perception, I would just make it a check using ½ level, relevant ability modifier (int?) and possibly +5 if the character is trained in crafting armors (which I would base off the background story). I read somewhere (in a thread on this board I believe) that a character that used to be a sailor (points in profession (sailing)) wouldn't make him any better at tying knots (use rope), so in the same way as the example above, for a character with sailing in his or her background story, you would just take that into consideration if the character was on a boat and had to make a check for sailing.
Hope I made sense.
I only got the books earlier today and have only just finished the skills section, so I won't comment on the mechanics themselves yet.
@Neubert: that was me ;)
@Moniker: I wouldn't make it a ritual. Rituals always require the Ritual Caster feat, which would make "mundane" smithing next to non-existent for PCs.
The general approach on other boards seems to be one of these (regarding armor- AND weaponsmithing, examples given for weaponsmithing):
(1) Make it a "hidden" skill check like Neubert suggested. Just 1/2 level + Int or Str, +5 if trained (read: character has reasonable background as a smith).
(2) Make it a skill challenge. Primary skills could include Endurance (smithing is hard work, after all), Perception (notice minor fractures and other bad stuff before it becomes permanent), Nature (remember how certain woods make for a hotter forge), and Dungeoneering (stones, structural stability, etc).
Complexity would be based on what you want to create (Dagger = comp. 1, short sword = comp. 2, longsword = comp. 3, bastard/greatsword = comp. 4, spiked chain = comp. 5), success would indicate the weapon has been finished, failure would show the attempt was ruined and must be started all over again.
Quote from: Ra-Tiel@Neubert: that was me ;)
@Moniker: I wouldn't make it a ritual. Rituals always require the Ritual Caster feat, which would make "mundane" smithing next to non-existent for PCs.
The general approach on other boards seems to be one of these (regarding armor- AND weaponsmithing, examples given for weaponsmithing):
(1) Make it a "hidden" skill check like Neubert suggested. Just 1/2 level + Int or Str, +5 if trained (read: character has reasonable background as a smith).
(2) Make it a skill challenge. Primary skills could include Endurance (smithing is hard work, after all), Perception (notice minor fractures and other bad stuff before it becomes permanent), Nature (remember how certain woods make for a hotter forge), and Dungeoneering (stones, structural stability, etc).
Complexity would be based on what you want to create (Dagger = comp. 1, short sword = comp. 2, longsword = comp. 3, bastard/greatsword = comp. 4, spiked chain = comp. 5), success would indicate the weapon has been finished, failure would show the attempt was ruined and must be started all over again.
With mundane smithing, I fully intend to create a base level 1 Ritual called "Blacksmithing" or Crafting, in line with the Armorsmithing Ritual I've described above (with plans to work in a Weaponsmithing Ritual as well). The reason I've made it a Ritual as that I want to keep it an exclusive skill. Meaning, not every player or NPC can necessarily cobble together a sword, shield and armor (as they could under your suggestion, since anyone can use a Skill untrained).
Quote from: MonikerQuote from: Ra-Tiel@Neubert: that was me ;)
@Moniker: I wouldn't make it a ritual. Rituals always require the Ritual Caster feat, which would make "mundane" smithing next to non-existent for PCs.
The general approach on other boards seems to be one of these (regarding armor- AND weaponsmithing, examples given for weaponsmithing):
(1) Make it a "hidden" skill check like Neubert suggested. Just 1/2 level + Int or Str, +5 if trained (read: character has reasonable background as a smith).
(2) Make it a skill challenge. Primary skills could include Endurance (smithing is hard work, after all), Perception (notice minor fractures and other bad stuff before it becomes permanent), Nature (remember how certain woods make for a hotter forge), and Dungeoneering (stones, structural stability, etc).
Complexity would be based on what you want to create (Dagger = comp. 1, short sword = comp. 2, longsword = comp. 3, bastard/greatsword = comp. 4, spiked chain = comp. 5), success would indicate the weapon has been finished, failure would show the attempt was ruined and must be started all over again.
With mundane smithing, I fully intend to create a base level 1 Ritual called "Blacksmithing" or Crafting, in line with the Armorsmithing Ritual I've described above (with plans to work in a Weaponsmithing Ritual as well). The reason I've made it a Ritual as that I want to keep it an exclusive ability (thus relegated it to being a Ritual). Meaning, not every player or NPC can necessarily cobble together a sword, shield and armor (as they could under your suggestion, since anyone can use a Skill untrained).
TBH, I need crunchy input for the math behind the system to make certain it works out right, or needs to be changed according to some base 43 mechanics I've not taken under consideration. :)
Quote from: MonikerWith mundane smithing, I fully intend to create a base level 1 Ritual called "Blacksmithing" or Crafting, in line with the Armorsmithing Ritual I've described above (with plans to work in a Weaponsmithing Ritual as well). The reason I've made it a Ritual as that I want to keep it an exclusive ability (thus relegated it to being a Ritual). Meaning, not every player or NPC can necessarily cobble together a sword, shield and armor (as they could under your suggestion, since anyone can use a Skill untrained).
Another problem with making smithing a ritual is that you require every smith to spend 50 gold pieces on a ritual book where to scribble down "how to smith 101". I'm not sure if it fits with the old tested dwarven master smith to speak to his apprentice "uhh... Hlordil, go run and fetch me my book, I need to look up how to make an axe". :P
Quote from: MonikerTBH, I need crunchy input for the math behind the system to make certain it works out right, or needs to be changed according to some base 43 mechanics I've not taken under consideration. :)
I hope you don't take my comments too serious. ;) I'm just dropping my :2cents: after all. :)