I'm liking 4E so far, even though I didn't think I would at first. However, I'm believing that for my campaign setting's purposes, I will need to rearrange the way classes work. This is for two reasons - the first is, my setting uses completely different classes than those of core 4E anyway, and second, I just don't really like the 4E class system. I'm pretty sure those two reasons are good enough. Here's my thoughts thus far, but they're far from complete. Some of you krunchers should feel welcome to help me out. :)
I'm thinking that I wipe all classes out. All current classial (yes, I'm still using that word) abilities will be put in one of the four power sources: Martial, Divine, Primal, and Arcane - which is, itself, divided into 4 "sub power sources": Elemental, Runic, Animistic (Spirits), and Shadow. So, the ability "Magic Missiles," would be put in the Arcane (Elemental), "Jaws of the Wolf" (ranger ability) would be put into Martial, and there would be created many new abilities to be put into the various Arcane sub powers and Primal power source.
Now, each new character chooses their power source at character creation. Each character is given a certain amount of points, with which they will be able to buy abilities based on their power source. Later abilities will have the prerequisites of earlier abilities. Once you've chosen a power source, you won't be able to get abilities from other power sources without taking a feat that allows to change power sources.
I'm sure there are a few problems - for instance, if someone wants to play a champion/paladin-esque class, and someone else wants to play a ranger-esque class, there would currently be no way to differentiate between abilities. That wouldn't be a huge problem, but it could lead to boundary issues and role issues if the ranger-type character wants to smite evil-doers, and the paladin-type character wants to wield 2 weapons.
Thoughts so far? Be kind, I'm not a kruncher. :)
try this thread, http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?50153.last
You might find something useful to get you a start. lemmy know if you want any help with more extensive modifications
Actually, 4e is the first time I've been fond of a class-based system.
That said, I wouldn't worry too much about boundary issues in classless. The point of removing classes is to remove boundaries. Besides, what's wrong with a concept of a paladin wielding two weapons? Or a nature warrior that fights evil?
One of the design and development articles mentions the game could be made classless. Is there anything in the DMG about it?
It sounds like you also want to go level-less (based on the point buy ability thing, rather than just having people get powers when they normally would, but from any class). If you want to classless and level-less, are you sure you want D&D at all?
[blockquote_ish]Thoughts so far? Be kind, I'm not a kruncher. [/blockquote]
Kind? Dude, I run skill based stuff. I'm totally in your corner. Your thought process is similar to some stuff my head went through a long time ago.
So let me help you out where your head is going to go.
[blockquote=Ish]Now, each new character chooses their power source at character creation. Each character is given a certain amount of points, with which they will be able to buy abilities based on their power source. Later abilities will have the prerequisites of earlier abilities. Once you've chosen a power source, you won't be able to get abilities from other power sources without taking a feat that allows to change power sources. [/blockquote]
Yep, sounds VERY familiar.
so describe to me in game terms who teaches these skills? Who are the the holders of these powerful secret abilities? In-game, who is holding these skills and can teach them?
[spoiler=I wasn't kidding]
from the Celtrician pbwiki...
"As for development, a world of guilds and factions would be tremendously limited by having the same skills and powers avaialble in every fighters guild, and prestige classes did little do mitigate this. Guildschool uses a skill based set of rules that depends on each organization or guild that a player belongs to or is allied with. Each of these 'factions' has access to almost any skill, but there is a limited amount of skills that they are good at. So instead of having a 'fighter', the character may belong to the Scarlet Pilums of Igbar. And later, may become a Brother of Garcelleti Euridios' School of the White Paladin.
Beginning characters have access to only one major faction and one minor faction, but later development is limited only by the players ability to network, though it is important for GM's to limit access to skills. Social skills become more imprtant is such a setting.
The unique mechanism that Guildschool uses to determine how good a school is at a skill is the experience modifier. So every skill a character has will have a column for 'raw experience' and 'adjustedexperience'. A skill's experience modiefier is also adjusted by the attributes of a character. So a strong warrior from the Defenders of the Land may have an experience modifier of .35 in basic spear, while an average person who tries to learn that skill may have a .1 experience modifier. The Defender of the Land will gain levels three and a half times as fast.
Also, better, more advanced skills are subskills of of more basic, generalized skills, but the level of a subskill cannot exceed or equal that of a parent skill. "
Told you I understood where you are coming from. There are certain pathways that great, intelligent minds will go towards as they grow past the confines of a class based system. Obviously there are some permutations that will be different, but I know that with which you are wwrestling with intimately.
Ba-ha[/spoiler]
You may find some balance issues in doing this. However, if you're like me and you don't think everything needs to be perfectly balanced all the time, this could be an interesting way of doing things. It may be a lot of fun, too.
Of course, you'll have your work cut out for you making all kinds of new powers and such.