Discuss this thread. (http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52772.last)
Looks neat. But could you perhaps provide an example with a chapter heading, main headline, sub headline, subsub headline, and a table? To let us see if it all works together as a style. :)
Also, if you want to have it primarily as a PDF, have you considered using the landscape format WotC is using for Dragon/Dungeon? Landscape format with 3 columns allows you to read a whole page without scrolling on most screens.
Despite the paucity, the message was pretty clear. you are running a campaign where everything fell apart (most recently) 400 years before, and things have been in decline since.
you got the message across.
Updated.Quote from: serifThanks.[/font]
Quote from: serifI'm not sure about all those subs but I just uploaded the entry for humans. Does that help at all? It is showing a bit more of the format, as currently planned, outside of the very general pages. In the least, it shows the format of the races. Also, after all of the separate racial entries, I think I may have some quick reference tables for normal height, weight, and lifespan. Perhaps that could help further?[/font]
Quote from: serifYes, I have considered it. I'm very torn on that. I think once I have a full section complete, I will 'release' two versions of it. One of those will be like this, the other landscape. No promises, though.
Would landscape format make it easier to read and, if so, would you read it and give your thoughts more frequently? [/font]
Quote from: serifThanks. However, that is not exactly the message that I was trying to get across. It isn't so much that things are in decline as much as they are stagnant.[/font]
I've been messing around with OOo a bit, and got the following. If you find it useful, feel free to yoink it. :D
The archive with the ODF file:
File: 1215716207_233_FT51787_template.zip (//../../e107_files/public/1215716207_233_FT51787_template.zip)
PDF conversion:
File: 1215716207_233_FT51787_template.pdf (//../../e107_files/public/1215716207_233_FT51787_template.pdf)
I just hope the styles and formatting are being preserved in the ODF file. :-|
Quote from: Ninja D!Updated.
Just saw it too late. Well, I guess I should refresh my tabs more often before replying. :P
Quote from: Ninja D!Thanks.
You're welcome. :D
Quote from: Ninja D!I'm not sure about all those subs but I just uploaded the entry for humans. Does that help at all?
I meant a simple file with some filler text ("lorem ipsum") to show how you imagined your headers and tables to look like. ;)
But I think I misunderstood your question anyway. I thought you were asking about the layout of your files (colors, font styles, columns, etc) and how it looked like. But I guess you were more interested rather in the layout of your content (giving enough information, written using appropriate language, etc) instead of the presentation of the content.
Or am I wrong again? :huh:
Quote from: Ninja D!It is showing a bit more of the format, as currently planned, outside of the very general pages. In the least, it shows the format of the races. Also, after all of the separate racial entries, I think I may have some quick reference tables for normal height, weight, and lifespan. Perhaps that could help further?
I would definitively suggest using 2 columns (eventually 3, depending on font size). Also, I'd greatly recommend using font styles (e.g. redefining the "heading 1" or "text body" styles instead of selecting a line and changing its formatting manually). This won't affect the process of writing stuff much, but when it comes to "making it look shiney" you definitively get an advantage there.
Anyway, I think you should add another block for "game rule information", and perhaps a blob about "physiology" (if only to keep the races' writeups consistent in case you got any race with a different biology, e.g. insectoids or unisexual creatures).
Quote from: Ninja D!Yes, I have considered it. I'm very torn on that. I think once I have a full section complete, I will 'release' two versions of it. One of those will be like this, the other landscape. No promises, though.
But keep in mind that you cannot simply change the page layout from "portrait" to "landscape". While today's wordprocessors can do much, they can't do everything and you'll probably still have to correct the layout when tables or images/graphics get involved (e.g., manually moving them around to a more suitable location, or correct an inappropriate page break, or something like that).
Therefore I'd say it's best if you decide rather at the start of your writing process than at the end. And if only to save yourself a lot of trouble and time. ;)
Quote from: Ninja D!Would landscape format make it easier to read and, if so, would you read it and give your thoughts more frequently? [/font]
It really depends on what you intend to do with your setting. If you want to print it out and bind it, it depends if you can get along with "sideways" books. But if you use it only as a PDF file, then I'd say use landscape. At least imho landscape format makes reading stuff on a screen much easier as it saves you a lot of scrolling up and down.
Hope that helps. Keep it up! :)
Setting preview:
I can't put my finger on it, but I feel the "headlines" in the setting preview isn't so good in the right side. Maybe it has something to do with the direction we read in. I see it haven't been mentioned before, but it was something I looked at and thought a bit about, so it might just be a matter of personal preference. It is no fatal flaw :)
I like the text in the setting preview and I also believe the message is clear (though I had read the comments first, so the fact that the world is stagnant might have been imprinted in my head).
Humans:
I like how you have reduced the average human lifespan to 40 years.
I haven't seen how you are describing the other races, but one thing I was wondering is if you want humans to be the diverse and adaptable race as for instance D&D makes them? (Is this setting for a specific rules system?)
I believe that 4e introduced a negative trait to humans (easily corruptible), whereas they seemed to have no negative traits in earlier editions (in contrast to the other races). Are you planning something similar?
Since Ra replied just before me:
I too understood it as you wanted response on the formatting and layout.
Quote from: serifWith my first post, I was mostly asking for comment on the layout of the files, so you were right. I hadn't presented enough content at that point to ask for much more. As I add more, though, I would like feedback on the content.[/font]
Quote from: serifYou really think that would make it look better? Later on today, I will try it out and see what I think of it. You might be right, since that is how a lot of gaming books do it.[/font]
Quote from: serifIn what way does this help? Does it speed things up in some way I don't understand?[/font]
Quote from: serifI understand what you're saying and it makes sense, given what I have said. However, I will be using the races as they are mechanically presented in the PHB. This stuff is just how they fit into my setting.[/font]
Quote from: serifI figured I would have to rearrange things but maybe you're right. It might be easier to go with landscape.[/font]
Quote from: Ra-TielHope that helps. Keep it up!
Any and all feedback helps right now, especially things related to format. Thanks, I appreciate it.
Quote from: serifRa seemed to feel otherwise as the format her presented has the headlines on the right as well. I, personally, wasn't sure about the positioning but I felt that having everything be right-aligned was boring and that centered didn't look quite right. If others feel the same as you, I may still look into changing it.[/font]
Quote from: serifI do understand, in part, how LordVreeg got his idea. In a way, it does sound like things are in decline. However, I had hoped that 'It is an age of maintaining' would clarify that. It didn't seem to sound quite right to my mind but if it served that purpose, I thought I could deal with it.[/font]
Quote from: serifThanks. Though I have / am considering increasing that to maybe 50, it makes more sense to me than the 75 years presented in the PHB.[/font]
Quote from: serifThis setting is for D&D 4E. I do want them to be very diverse, yes.[/font]
Quote from: serifI'm not sure what you mean. Was there something mechanical for that that I missed? I intend for humans to be the most diverse, some with great potential for corruption others with less. Nothing mechanical, though.[/font]
40 years is quite short, but the average lifespan might also be longer with magic available (depending on how rare magic is in your world).
No, nothing mechanical in regards to corruption. I just remember that they said that in earlier editions, the flavour text of Humans suggested that they had no bad traits. I just thought your own flavour text might come across the same way (and since your setting is for 4e, you might want to adopt the corruption element).
Quote from: Ninja D!With my first post, I was mostly asking for comment on the layout of the files, so you were right. I hadn't presented enough content at that point to ask for much more. As I add more, though, I would like feedback on the content.
So apparently I did made my Insight check. :D
Quote from: Ninja D!You really think that would make it look better? Later on today, I will try it out and see what I think of it. You might be right, since that is how a lot of gaming books do it.
It wouldn't necessarily look better automatically, but it would help reducing wasted space.
If you want, you can make the following experiment:
- Make a new document with default font size 12pt
- Make the document only contain 1 column
- Take the d20 SRD and copy&paste about 20 spells from it into the document
- Make another new document with the same default font size
- Make this document contain 2 columns
- Copy&paste the same spells into this document
Which one do you find easier to read, and which one has less "white space" on the right side, especially right next to the stats of the spell (level, duration, range, etc)?
Quote from: Ninja D!In what way does this help? Does it speed things up in some way I don't understand?
Imagine you wanted all your level 1 headlines to be size 20pt, bold print, underlined, and font color "dark green". Later, after writing 200 pages, you decide that size 24pt, italics, not underlined, and font color "blue" would fit your style better.
If you used the appropriate styles, all you'd have to do is modify the appropriate style and all associated headlines would change automatically. If you formatted each entry manually, you'd have to parse through your document and replace/reformat ever headline by hand.
Some documentation about styles can be found here (http://documentation.openoffice.org/manuals/oooauthors2/). Look under "Writer Guide" on the right side, the files are "Ch6 - Introduction to Styles" and "Ch7 - Working with Styles".
Quote from: Ninja D!I understand what you're saying and it makes sense, given what I have said. However, I will be using the races as they are mechanically presented in the PHB. This stuff is just how they fit into my setting.
Ahhh, ok. :)
Quote from: Ninja D!I figured I would have to rearrange things but maybe you're right. It might be easier to go with landscape.
It ultimately depends on your preferences. If you personally prefer portrait, go with that format. Don't let us talk you into something. ;)
Quote from: Ninja D!Any and all feedback helps right now, especially things related to format. Thanks, I appreciate it.
No problem. Glad I can help a fellow gamer. :D
Quote from: serifThat was my way of thinking as well. Magic is not overly common but it logically could have also led to other advances that would be more mundane and readily available. Balance that with disease carrying creatures that we don't have and I would figure somewhere in the 40 to 60 year range, most likely 40 to 50.[/font]
Quote from: serifI think I did include something about criminal organizations in some cities but I'll look into adding more.
Sorry, I don't believe I have need to quote you, Ra. Thanks to both of you, though. I appreciate it.[/font]
Updated.
Also, if old files that have been uploaded can be deleted to save server space, my last two can go.
Updated.
Updated.
I really like the formatting of the file, minus all the blank space. It might be for the best to condence those mostly empty pages into each other, just so there's less pages to scroll through.
As for the setting itself, I'm under the impression that you're making a "traditional" 4E PoL (Points of Light) setting? The only thing I would like to see different than what you've done so far is actually detail the human cultures present on this island continent. You say that 400 years ago it was one empire, so there should still be cultural traits that haven't been disolved away just yet. While the people are not united under one ruler, they would still share a culture; imagine the Mediterranean after the fall of Rome.
I do like the small sense of Dark Ages isolation you've presented. I think that goes well with the PoL mindset. How fantastic of a world are you going to present; will there be floating cities or other fantastic terrains? What other races are you looking to add? I'd really like to know about the history of the world too.
Much more detail will eventually come. This is just the early stages. A lot of the blank space will also get more filled in. I was thinking about working on this when I got home but my GF just punched me in the nuts so I'm not feeling much like it at the moment.
Figuratively or Literally?
Quote from: Ninja D![...] my GF just punched me in the nuts [...].
:huh:
Perhaps it's just her cute way of telling you that she doesn't want children? :P ;)
</offtopic>
Perhaps, but I wouldn't call it cute.
What made you pick the tone that you did? It seems to me like a very boring way to approach the setting. "Let's appreciate spending time with out loved ones today" might be very pragmatic and fulfilling, but it isn't very exiting.
Why don't you have tieflings? You're running a straight up 4E setting, but you cut one race out just for kicks?
You say, with regard to humans, "The most common look is usually dark hair and eyes, leading some to believe this is how the natives once looked." What about skin?
What makes your setting more interesting than the core 4E setting?
What role do goblins have? And what is their relation to halflings?
Quote from: serifIt is more the tone of the land in general than anything else. (Assuming you are referring to "it is an age of maintaining".) The PCs will obviously encounter more exciting things but in this world, people are less likely to help them out. They will have more of a, "No way, I'm just a farmer, this is NOT my problem" kind of attitude.[/font]Quote from: serifTo tell the truth, I really don't like them. In the end, though, I think they will be included. Though the PDF that I currently have posted here only mentions the Civilized Races and the Non-Civilized Races, there is actually a third group. This third group I think I will call the Legendary Races. These are the races that do not 'officially' exist, but there are rumors that they are out there. Maybe they lurk in the shadows, maybe they live underground where no one will ever see them. Whatever the case, they are not widely known. I think that I will include Tieflings in with these Legendary Races.[/font]Quote from: serifMy bad, I thought I had mentioned that. They generally have fairly light skin, though slightly darker is not too uncommon.[/font]Quote from: serifDragonborn pirates.
Or maybe I'm not going for more interesting, just different. It's just the setting done my own way. One big point of interest is that at one point, this now solitary island was a big part of the global community. It traded with a few other nations on the mainland and had some highly sought after commodities. When civil unrest broke out on the mainland (I picture a kind of domino effect where one powerful nation was overthrown and that led the people of other nations to revolt) this island continent was far from the first thing on anyones mind and was forgotten about so that when the same thing happened there, no one was around to notice.[/font]Quote from: serifBeing that I am fond of goblins, they are likely to often be the main antagonists in any campaigns that I run here. They have no special relationship with halflings but halflings are often prey for goblin raiders since they are usually weak and traveling in small groups (even with children).[/font]
And thanks, Raelifin.
I think I may now be reworking this from the ground up with a bit of a different approach.
Updated
There were a couple of main inspirations for this "race". One was the Imperials from the Elder Scrolls video games. I liked how they stood on their own but were also quite obviously Roman at their core (though several of my friends somehow failed to notice this even though the first person you report to in Morrowind is named Caius). Another was when Xeviat stated that in his setting there was a human culture that was pretty much an continuation of the culture of the fallen empire. The third was just an interest in the Roman culture and empire.
This is one part bump and one part preemptive strike against what I think could be a question asked.
Later I should have an expanded entry for the Imperial people as well as the first draft of their religion and their calendar (which is used by all people of the island continent).
So I won't put all of that up tonight. Instead, here is just the expanded entry for Imperials.
Updated.
Updated
07/22/08 11:15 AM Update
I uploaded a PDF of the religion followed by the Imperial people. It is inspired loosely by Roman mythology, condensed. Very few deities are currently listed and I will likely update this religion with more deities and far more detail in the future. Also, I plan to do Channel Divinity feats for all of the deities. I may start on that today.
I also uploaded the Imperial calendar. It follows the same form as the calendar from Un. This will also need some updating and detailing as time goes on but what I have now is good enough to show. For simplicity, I am going to say that this calendar is still widely used by the people of the island continent, Imperial and otherwise.
Yesterday I updated the racial entry for Imperials. It has far more detail than the original version and it includes both fluff and crunch. The crunch may still be searching for balance but it is at least close enough for the moment.
As always, feedback is appreciated. Any questions you may have about the fluff I would be happy to answer as it may help me flesh out the Imperial people even further. Comments on the balance of the crunch would be even more appreciated as I am far from a master of that. Of course, any comments you have will likely get some response from me. Thank you for your time.
Updated.
I expanded Religion - Imperial by adding two Channel Divinity feats and a Paragon Path for the goddess of death.
I think I'll be actively looking for feedback on the Imperials for a while longer, though I may start working on the next group.
Update : My entry on dwarves is nearing three pages. More comments on Imperials?
The main thread now has an general overview of the human, dwarf, and elf people. It can be found here. (http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52772.0)
Updated : Goblinkind now has an overview.
Updated : Dragonkind now has an overview.
Updated : Halflings added to humankind.
Updated : Slightly updated the PDF you see when you click 'Imperial People'
Updated : Slightly updated the PDF you see when you click 'Imperial Calendar' (removed Ages)
Updated.
I uploaded a PDF for the Highlander people. You can see it by clicking on 'Highlander People' beneath their place in the Humankind section. Feedback would be great. It's still a work in progress but the fluff is there, mostly. More detail will come someday.
As a reminder, the main thread can be found here. (http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52772.0) [/url]
I updated the Highlander PDF (including the link in my previous post).
UPDATED : I added a PDF for Highlander Religion to the main thread.
Here's something for the discussion thread : I think I'm going to get rid of halflings and probably tieflings. Also, I'm going to change the dragonborn a bit and I've changed goblins a lot.
I added a PDF describing the Noma.[/url]
I think I am going to work on presenting my information in the main thread a bit more, instead of all the PDFs. Hopefully this would allow people to look over it more easily.
I've done a lot of updating to the main thread today. Please have a look and let me know what you think. Once again, it can be found here. (http://thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52772.0#post_53033)
I updated the main thread with the first entry of my Design Notes on humans.
Updated.
I added the first entry of my Design Notes : Humans to a spoiler in the first post. I also made a post for Highlanders.
Updated.
I just made a massive update to the post on Highlanders and will soon be posting the second entry of Design Notes : Humans.
Don't get me wrong, I know people are probably not reading this at all. I'm still doing it, though, and I'll still at least keep the community updated here anyway.
Updated.
I added a section about the Noma religion. I will also post entry three of my Design Notes : Humans now.
Updated
I added entry four of Design Notes : Humans I will probably be doing more setting work later today.
EDIT: I have made a minor update to the religion of the Imperials. It can be found under the Pantheon headline.
EDIT: I have updated the entry for Noma. This update was a bit slow going but I feel they are now fleshed out better than before.
EDIT: I added the last entry for Design Notes : Humans and added a link to the thread dedicated to humans of the setting.
I've been reading the design notes, and find some of the things interesting...but I guess no one else is. Oh, and if you are planning on making a weaknesses for humans, or any other race for that matter, just look at their strengths. Humans are adaptable, proud and accomplish huge amounts of work in their short lifetimes in core D&D. So this may make them power hungry, which naturally leads to corruptibility. Another common human weakness in settings is racism-they may think of themselves as better then all the other races, because of their accomplishments. Or you could try something totally different-humans are wonderful inventors and technicians, to the point that over the generations they are getting weaker and weaker because life is so easy for them.
Also, when are we going to get some material on Dwarves and Elves? I'm interested to see how their going to work out in a mostly human population. Also, great job on the humans. This is a good, solid setting, and the little Design Notes captions are great, and I stole-I mean used you're idea :demon: for my setting.
I have some for the dwarves on my computer. I also needed to finishe up Highlanders. For the time being, this setting has been on hold. My current DM has shown that I may not need to hate the default setting as I do. I was condsidering today working on a different setting that has been in my mind for a while. Still, part of me really wants to return to Faded.