So I'm thinking about a project that moves Oriental Adventures to 4e, what, in your opinion, did OA need the most work on? For me, it's the names. I don't understand and oriental language, so it just made it harder for me to work with. What about you?
One thing I've been thinking about, is a race of tree people.
I call them the Kodama, they are dryads essentially, only they would be apart of the new type "Spirit". They have no face, only two glowing eyes, so they usually wear masks where their faces are supposed to be. They also have leaves for hair for photosynthesis.
So are these Kodama shaped like humans, then?
You don't really need to make a "spirit" type. The beauty of the Feywild and Shadowfell from 4E is that they function as the Spirit World and the Under World for many cultures. "Spirits" are fey.
As for OA, in my own games I have taken extensive efforts to ensure that separate classes for my world's orient aren't necessary. In the days of 3E, I took the OA Samurai and adapted it to be a Knight, giving it a little more so that it wasn't just a fighter with an ancestral weapon and more skill points.
Now in 4E, I'm trying to decide if I actually want to use Oriental names for classes and races in the oriental area; I probably will, as it helps color the player's expectations. My Valkyrie in the west are Tengu in the East, for instance.
Very good point on the Feywild and Shadowfell, I think i will just call them Fey. My Kodama are humanoid shaped. I actually just doodled one up and he looks pretty BAMF. One thing I like to do is rid myself of the Planes, and instead make them physical parts of the world. I'm not sure when we started making up alternate planes of reality (first edition probably) but our ancestors (Ancient greeks i think) actually believed the Underworld could be visited by walking. So, the spirit realm and the realm of the dead are all visitable by walking (albeit very very far walk).
What I'm going to do with the classes (Samurai, ninja, wujen, shujenja) is NOT make new classes. Instead, I want to just use the 4e classes. So you might be a Warlord or Fighter or Paladin with Katanas who follows a strict code of conduct and refer to yourself as a Samurai. For those players, i'd ask them to pick powers that match what they'd think a Samurai would have. However, I do plan on making Samurai paragon paths, but nothing that just says "SAMURAI"
Some thoughts include elemental Samurai (Earthbound Samurai, Fireweaver Samurai etc.) or Wuxia style Monks (Gliding Palm Monk, Monk of a thousand fists) and include powers that reflect those ideas. The Asian Archetypes, in my view, should be more like "Class Builds" like what they just published in Dragon earlier on building a warrior wizard in their Character Concepts article.
I really kind of want this setting to be InuYasha meets Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. Enough fantasy and wondrousness with lots of action and intrigue and realism. Like an easy blend.
Anyone ever seen the mini-series Shogun? Think of this setting like that. A stranger comes to an island and discovers a whole new world
I am half Japanese, so I have, in a sense a better understanding of oriental culture. I've liked and not liked OA. I've explored L5R Rokugan. The L5R storyline is epic and detailed, however Rokugan itself, I find jarring. Part of the essence of Japanese is that they are an island culture. Rokugan is more like Chinese/Korean in geography, with a heavy Japanese culture overlayed. I understand the idea of not just depending on Japanese culture, as Asian cultures are rich and variated. But just to put the "japan" on continent and keeping Japanese culture seems a weak mixture.
I've considered using the basic classes for their Japanese counterparts and just given them new titles - Samurai/Ronin instead of Fighter, for example. But I'd think you'd need to a specific, cultural feats that help separate them from the basic fighter. Aijutsu, combined quick draw and attack, and the like.
Shogun by James Clavell was hated by the Japanese, because Clavell needed some artistic license to his story, so he changed the names and history of events that actually occurred. An English ship's captain did shipwreck off Japanese waters, he was in fact invited to reside at the Shogun compound, by Nobunaga (not Toranaga, as Clavell used). Much of novel is based on a true story, why Clavell had to change names is a bewilderment to the Japanese!
Sengoku is another RPG game and ruleset, that may be worth checking out, at least for storyline and historical aspects to a Japanese fantasy campaign. Sengoku is the "age of war" the time before the Shoguns controlled the state, when clans were incessantly fighting their neighbors for control of territory. Noteably, the Yakuza did not exist at this time as it took the dominance by the Shogunate to maintain order and allow a black market to flourish in relative peace.
I love Tengu, Kappa, and Oni, as well as the folklore stories of Kiozumi Yagumo/Lafcadio Hearn.
GP
Remember Oriental encompasses- Japan, China, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand/Burma? i think too, Samuri are a warrior cast from ONE of those nations. What where the most common infantry types of the OTHER nations? What about the peasent spearman (most of the mainland), the hords of crossbowman (china), The Huang Kuwan (doubt i spelt that right) the Korean calvery with large bladed lances, rocket artillery.
For religion and magic you got Japanese Shintaoism, Buddism, Thai black magic (alot like jamaican voodoo from my reading), reincarnation, ancestor spirits, elemental manipulation based magic, martial art grand masters, ect.
i think just useing the classes as they are, with new names, power names, and some unigue feats and powers to really add the flavour and make it different is the best way. It will work for the martial classes, the western rogue, ranger, and the magic classes tho, THATS where the problems come in. There just arnt any "rangers like aragon" tho i imagine there where some people who hunted in the wilderness. Rogues are more about trickery than theivery, and assasins/spies all use stealth secondary to their main job skill killing or retrieving the right information. its do able but need alot more attention to make something genuinly eastern.
Magic... wizards and warlocks just dont fit with eastern styles and history. I think your going to need wait for 4ePHB2 with the Druid (maybe Wu-jen too) for less flashy elemental based magic...
2 cents.
I agree whole heartedly on the chinese/korean point of Rokugan. When you look at Japanese myths you run into all these sea and water spirits. I want to explore that a lot.
I also want to make dragons more unique. Instead of saying Red Dragon or Blue dragon, or Lung dragon for that matter, I instead want to have unique Solos that are the Demon Princes of the setting (Demon prince on the level of power they have.)
I just watched Temple of Doom. Meh, but some interesting points about Indian myth (even if the film is a little inaccurate in their depiction of India)
I like the idea of a death cult however. Kali-Mah... Kali-Mah... Does this have a spot in the Spirit Kingdom? I think so.
I've been thinking of a few new Races.
The first are the Ogres, not the dumb drooling savages we commonly think of, but dark, intelligent sorcerers who wield long forgotten magic and pay respects to the Oni. The Ogres would not be out right evil (for the most part) but instead would be the kind of person who is not afraid to use dark magic. They would also have a strong presence naturally. (Physically on par with the Dragonborn)
Then we have the Celestials (possibly given a better name than that) They are refugees from the Spirit World who have come to live in the Modern World.
The Kodama of course are my Tree people, living amongst the forests of the Real World, they are the ancient protectors of the world.
The Naga, the first race of intelligent beings, they live underground, in the hidden places of the world. Physically, they are the upper body of a human, lower body of a snake people.
Samurai came in multiple flavors, not just the local lord's retainer, though this is the most familiar one. In Japan, most of the bureaucrats were hatamoto, which was a subclass of samurai, if you will. All the police officers were samurai as well, though they were of the lowest status. Actually during the Sengoku period, lower class peasants were given 2 weeks training with a spear in unit combat training and added to the local lords forces. These were called Ashigaru, and many became samurai families over time, if they pleased their lord.
There were ranger like samurai who acted as wardens, bandit hunters and heroes to fight off monsterous threats from wilderness.
Actually, most Ninja began as samurai houses that fell out of favor by the local lord or by the Shogun and were forced into changing their occupation. Because ninja skills were taught only to samurai class, originally (as dishonorable as that seems), so when a house fell out of favor, many became Ninja houses instead.
Traditional Yakuza is indeed less thievery, more traditional crime organization activity like control of prostitution, gambling, narcotics, weapons smuggling, black market, extortion, protection rackets. However bands of specialized thieves did exist in old Japan each group to a specific niche like home-robbers using long poles with hooks to grab objects, even while the woman of the house is home (without her knowledge.) Thievery existed in Japan.
Wilderness Bandits were far more common, however, as well as Inland Sea Pirates.
Magic, that's really up to you. The magic in OA did not appeal to me, nor seem very Japanese, so waiting to see a 4e Wujen - I wouldn't wait, but that's up to you.
GP
Quote from: Gamer PrintshopShogun by James Clavell was hated by the Japanese, because Clavell needed some artistic license to his story, so he changed the names and history of events that actually occurred. An English ship's captain did shipwreck off Japanese waters, he was in fact invited to reside at the Shogun compound, by Nobunaga (not Toranaga, as Clavell used). Much of novel is based on a true story, why Clavell had to change names is a bewilderment to the Japanese!
I highly recommend this book as an enjoyable way to get a feel for japanese culture. It may not be entirely accurate, but I'd say it's enough to give your setting the proper feel.
Quote from: Rose Of MontagueQuote from: Gamer PrintshopShogun by James Clavell was hated by the Japanese, because Clavell needed some artistic license to his story, so he changed the names and history of events that actually occurred. An English ship's captain did shipwreck off Japanese waters, he was in fact invited to reside at the Shogun compound, by Nobunaga (not Toranaga, as Clavell used). Much of novel is based on a true story, why Clavell had to change names is a bewilderment to the Japanese!
I don't disagree, I was just saying how the Japanese feel about the book/movie. Still, yes, its a great introduction into Japanese culture.
There's a Japanese movie called RAN, which is completely in Japanese with subtitling in English, and strangely enough its Shakespeare's King Lear redone as a Japanese story is a great movie. Like all great movies with subtitling, after awhile you forget that you are reading. This is a bloody, bloody movie, however - still worth checking out!
GP
Which would you rather see? New Japaneses races based upon Shinto myth or the Core Races fitting into Japanese society?
They need to tone down the SPLAT! effect of expansions. That's the only concern I have for publication, although I never intend to use it in my game.
SPLAT?!
I'd steer clear of core races, no need for a Greyhawk in Japan feel.
GP