The Campaign Builder's Guild

Well I figured I'd provide a link to the devolping world of Sulos, so that I could foster some healthy responses from this fine community. The world is very new; I only started building her on the fifth, but she's rapidly coming along. I would greatly appreciate any and all feedback, suggestions, and comments, particularly any that could help breathe life into the various nations as they grow. While a simple thumbs up and thumbs down will be fine, I really hope for some insightful responses that will fuel my imagination. Any revisions to the setting will be made temporarily in red, so that those who choose to keep up on the setting can watch it unfold and see their suggestions implimented. A preemtive thanks to all who help.  :p

-Nasty-

P.S. I updated Sulos in a completely ne thread. Here's the new link.    
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=602997 (//hyperlinkurl)

Alright I think Hazra'Ghalduur is fairly complete for now, so let's shift focus a bit shall we?
L'Landra, a capitolist nation ruled by a merchant syndicate, is my current focus. I would really like to add several things to her description. I think I'd like to add blurbs about her privateers, her diplomats, and perhaps a much more in-depth description of the Syndicate themselves. I also am wondering if anybody has any other suggestions that could help bring this economic super-power to life.

I have yet to really think much about the religions of the world either, but given that I do want clerics in my campaign I think I may have to soon. I'd prefer that the religion of my world not be focused on pantheonic deities, but upon ideals and philosophies. I see religion not as the tool of the gods, but as the faith of the people. I envision the faith of the world in decline relative to the rise of industrialization. So the more advanced nations are far less devoted to their faiths, than those in less civilized lands.

And as always if something catches your eye, a gaping hole, or a question that needs answering, feel free to mention it. I will do my best to answer any and all questions pertaining to Sulos. As always keep your eyes open for new stuff, which will be in red type, so you don't have to re-read everything you've already seen to find the recent additions.

-Peace-

So do you want the privateers to be legally sponsored by the L'Landra government?

Will deities be involved at all in your religions?

I read the new bits on L'Landra and it's still looking good. I'll try to keep up.

;) Túrin

QuoteSo do you want the privateers to be legally sponsored by the L'Landra government?

Legally? Well no they legally step beyond their bounds, but the syndicate doesn't mind so much because it cannot be traced back to them. Who's to say the Syndicate hired them? Who's to say missing ship and crew weren't just lost at sea?

QuoteWill deities be involved at all in your religions?

maybe. I know the Kashra is like hippy commune that worships a spiritual force, and even though you folks haven't seen it yet, in Kesh the people worship their immortal kings. I don't know what I'm going to do with Rhoenheim though...other than those three faiths, I don't plan on adding anything else.

The faith of Rhoenheim is the common faith of the whole world (and I know nothing about it yet LOL!). I suppose it makes sense for the pantheonic approach so that it can appeal to all people. I don't think I'm going to even allow the option of worshipping a specific deity above all others. When a cleric needs to lift a boulder he prays to the god of strength, when he has a long sea voyage he parys to the god of storms for safe passage, etc. I just don't like the idea of domains tied to alignments. I want gods to be primal forces, not people from different worlds.

QuoteI read the new bits on L'Landra and it's still looking good. I'll try to keep up.

Wow I just added those. Any suggestions about what I can add to L'Landra. I really want it to mirror Hazra'Ghalduur in size and scope, as it will be the focal point of the entire world when all is said and done. I was thinking of adding changelings, who I think could be of immense value to the syndicate, and yet be a completely unkown species of people living right among the common folk. However I would really prefer they were a crossbreed of humans and dopplegangers rather than true breeding race, so I can contol the population of them better.

I'll check back soon.

Expanding on the Syndicate might be interesting. Just a little bit more info could make them even more mysterious than they are now.

I'm also interested in the nobles. Are they merchants/traders or something like that as well, or are they more like "normal" nobility. If the latter, what role do they have to play in this new society?

I've never liked changelings or doppelgangers in society much, because I feel they present more trouble than they are worth in the (pseudo-)realism area. Just my opinion though. Perhaps in a very limited way, such as the Syndicate secretly being an association of the changelings of L'Landra.

Other stuff of interest I usually like to see with nations: specific organizations, locations, cities and NPCs. Also, does L'Landra have any military?

As for the Rhoenheim pantheon, will you be using PHB deities or creating your own?

;) Túrin

QuoteExpanding on the Syndicate might be interesting. Just a little bit more info could make them even more mysterious than they are now.

That's the thing I have to expand without revealing too much. I think I'm going to add a paragraph about the numerous rumors, and ideas people have been circulating about the Syndicate. I also want to really dig their claws into L'Landra, so that their removal from power would utterly destroy the nation. Hmmm...how does one go about that?

QuoteI'm also interested in the nobles. Are they merchants/traders or something like that as well, or are they more like "normal" nobility. If the latter, what role do they have to play in this new society?

Clearly this was not a very detailed break down of all the social classes, just a brief summary, but none the less, I can answer these questions. The nobles are very much like merchant sponsers. They foot the bill, and the guilds to make all the arangements for the boats, merchandise, crew, etc. Then when the profits roll in they split them "evenly" with the guilds. Obviously people skim off the top whenever they can. The nobles are like pampered wealthy elite who were born with money, and spend most of their time living like Paris Hilton.:D

QuoteI've never liked changelings or doppelgangers in society much, because I feel they present more trouble than they are worth in the (pseudo-)realism area. Just my opinion though. Perhaps in a very limited way, such as the Syndicate secretly being an association of the changelings of L'Landra.

Like the Mahk'Talaa of Hazra Ghalduur? See my problem is I don't want them in huge numbers, nor do I want people to know about them, but dopplegangers are really too powerful to build an international intelligence agancy around (too many uber powerful NPCs if you ask me)They weren't a perfect fit, but you get the idea what I was looking for, the syndicate is very shady. I'll try to think of something better.

QuoteOther stuff of interest I usually like to see with nations: specific organizations, locations, cities and NPCs. Also, does L'Landra have any military?

Specific organizations are right up my ally, so expect more of those. locations and cities, I'm sort of avoiding only because the image hosting sight I used for my map can't support any more detail. I will eventually get into that stuff and share it here, but it won't really work too well with the WotC boards. L'Landra does not have any known military, but she may have something hidden up her sleeve. Usually however L'Landra can just convince somebody else to fight for them, or divert battle away with threats of economic sanctions and embargos. They don't need a military.

QuoteAs for the Rhoenheim pantheon, will you be using PHB deities or creating your own?

No way I'm using the Greyhawk pantheon! I used them when I was ten years old...they are waay to played out for me. I'll come up with my own (no alignments, and no domains, just aspects, and influences).

Very good work so far, nice rich detailing.

QuoteLegally? Well no they legally step beyond their bounds, but the syndicate doesn't mind so much because it cannot be traced back to them. Who's to say the Syndicate hired them? Who's to say missing ship and crew weren't just lost at sea?

Just to pick this niy, though, to be a privateer, one mustbe legally sponsored by a government(see the U.S. Constitution), otherwise you are just a pirate.

QuoteJust to pick this niy, though, to be a privateer, one mustbe legally sponsored by a government(see the U.S. Constitution), otherwise you are just a pirate.

The privateers are supposed to patrol the seas and regulate trade. They are responsible for stopping smugglers and pirates. They indeed paid to do so.

That said, most of the privateers go a few steps beyond their authority. They cannot burn ships, or execute criminals legally, but they do...

P.S. I didn't think you were nit picking. I thought that was a very valid question.

House Jundora seems like they are a little crazy. I can see why as their job is almost worthless and they might as well be gone. Anyway, u condradict yourself saying... "No crime is more heinous in L'Landra than trade violations,". However, you also say that... "The punishments are lenient enough that they not only fail to stop the smugglers, but they actually encourage them."
So, which is it?

QuoteHouse Jundora seems like they are a little crazy. I can see why as their job is almost worthless and they might as well be gone. Anyway, u condradict yourself saying... "No crime is more heinous in L'Landra than trade violations,". However, you also say that... "The punishments are lenient enough that they not only fail to stop the smugglers, but they actually encourage them."
So, which is it?

The idea behind them is that they are heavily invested in the shipping industry, so smuggling and piracy really hit them them in the wallet more than any other house. They've taken it upon themselves to enforce the laws as they see fit, because the current laws don't protect their interests well enough. The laws as they are written are fine for almost everyone else. Smuggelers lose their cargo, pay some hefty fines, and theoretically learn their lesson. They're suposedly better off just paying the taxes, submitting to inspections, and conducting legit buisiness transactions.

I also don't see that as a contradiction. I see it as a loophole in the legal system.

The truth of the matter is if they only get caught one out of ten times, they still turn a profit, so they keep doing it. The smugglers aren't really hurting the other houses too much, because they just a little nuisance. However House Jundora makes their money in shipping, so some extremists among them have deciding to take matters into their own hands. It's the old if you can beat em'...join em' thing.

Does that make more sense to you now? Should I add more detail?

P.S. They are not useless. If L'landra had no control over the shiping industry they couldn't tax the cargo, and regulate the trade, which keeps the global economy within their ability to manipulate. If other nations could control their own trade, they could cut L'Landra out as the middle-man, and where would they be then?

P.S.S. I hope my minor tweaks reflect what I had originally tried, and apparently failed to portray in my first go at it. Let me know what you think now. Maybe I'm the crazy one, not House Jundora

You guys are pretty quick. I had comments on House Jundora like ten minutes after I posted it. I didn't have a chance to post anything here stating that I added any updates. That rocks!

That said, check out House Vylunn in the very last part of the Syndicate entry. I wanna know how it comes across, because if it's anywhere near as misleading as Jundora was, I'm gonna have my work cut out for me. They should come across as a guild in a very risky position with potential for both huge gain and huge loss.

Are there any requests about what you folks would like to see next. More about L'Landra, something yet unexplored, revisions to anything already written?

I have some really cool ideas about Kesh and the Blazing Sands of Ilsen, but they are particularly foreign concepts in relation to what I already have. I think that I should wait on them until I get the more European flavored nations out of the way.

Do you have any suggestions about Rhoenheim? This nation has me sort of stumped. I know that they are going to be the center of the most widely accepted religion, and that they have a particularly strong military, but beyond that...

What about Kashra? This nation seems so one dimensional too me so far. I know they aren't that important to the world as a whole, but Kashra just feels like it's missing something.

Sylescnia is also pretty shallow thus far, but I do have some interesting ideas about how to liven her up.

Does anyone even care about the elves and dwarves? I haven't even really thought about them (Tair'Shola & Thoth) yet, and nobody seems to be clammering for it.

Point me in a direction, give me a suggestion, and I'll attempt to deliver.  !alien

One thing to remember about a rich country like L'Landra:  it always has enemies.  greedy ones, that seek a piece of the action.
If you are following the Dutch model, trading does not stop with a nation just because they are attacking you.  The French found more than once, to their embarrasment, that their best supply lines came from the nation they were attacking.  

And trade is but one leg of the power triangle.  Industry and finance are the other two.  L'Landra goods need to be the desire of all right thinking people.  And they should be in the business of loaning money.  Lots of it.  All of that trade profit needs to be reinvested in friend and foe alike.  Such investment keeps everyone in check.

If religious intolerance is to be a factor in your campaign world, L'Landra should be the sanctuary from such madness.  

QuoteOne thing to remember about a rich country like L'Landra: it always has enemies. greedy ones, that seek a piece of the action.
If you are following the Dutch model, trading does not stop with a nation just because they are attacking you. The French found more than once, to their embarrasment, that their best supply lines came from the nation they were attacking.

Ideally I'm setting up Kesh as both L'Landra's most profitable business partner and her greatest potential enemy (economically). Also Hazra'Ghalduur is certainly a threat. Their whole nation is facing a cultural identity crisis, and their status as the world power is clearly threatened by L'Landra. So yep enemies are there, just not open threats.

QuoteAnd trade is but one leg of the power triangle. Industry and finance are the other two. L'Landra goods need to be the desire of all right thinking people. And they should be in the business of loaning money. Lots of it. All of that trade profit needs to be reinvested in friend and foe alike. Such investment keeps everyone in check.

Did you check out House Tsalir? Banking, coin minting, currency exchange...I got that covered  :D

QuoteIf religious intolerance is to be a factor in your campaign world, L'Landra should be the sanctuary from such madness.

I haven't really explored relion yet, but I'll keep this option in mind.

Any specific comments on the material thus I've written thus far?

maybe L'landra could be a patron of house Tsalir?  sorry if that doesn't make sense, i've only read the CBG thread.

Quotemaybe L'landra could be a patron of house Tsalir? sorry if that doesn't make sense, i've only read the CBG thread.

Please explain. I'm not sure what you're suggestiong here. Are you asking if the entire nation could be under the the thumb of House Tsalir? If so, it's very unlikely. There are too many other powerful Guild-Houses that would never allow a single one to gain control. The Syndicate is made up of numerous different men with many different agendas; House Tsalir is but one of the factions (though a very powerful one)competing for influence over the Syndicate.

Ok, I definitely should back out now.  i feel really confused...  maybe if you clarified te relative positions of L'landra and Tsalir?  If you don't want to, that's cool, but when I read too much I get my settings mixed up...

QuoteOk, I definitely should back out now. i feel really confused... maybe if you clarified te relative positions of L'landra and Tsalir? If you don't want to, that's cool, but when I read too much I get my settings mixed up...

L'Landra is a nation ruled by a secretive syndicate of various merchant guilds (more or less). Tsalir is one of the guilds with significant influence within the Syndicate. Does that clear things up for you?

Quotei've only read the CBG thread.

This is why you've got no idea what's going on. Follow the link in the first post to the WotC board. There you can see all you need to know in the first two posts. I broke it down into spoilers so you can easily find what you need to without reading through everything. Check out the second post; ther in you will find a spoiler talking about L'Landra as a whole, and a second spoiler that talks about the Syndicate.

alright, I read the stuff back at WoTC on L'landra and house tsalir.  I've got it now, and I guess my question didn't make much sense.  I must give honorable mention to the nation with the undead nobility however, it sounds awesome in my opinion...

Yeah Sylescnia is really cool in concept, but boy is it lacking in content. I need to work on that quite a bit. Maybe I'll go back there next.

Any other comments, questions, or concerns?

Well, for Sylescnia, you could start by identifying and elaborating on specific nobles.  Perhaps a new type of monster is in order, to add flavor to the nation.  also, describing the organiations of he priests and druids in the region could help.  Just some things you could work on...

I've been trying to avoid specific NPCs thus far. At least until the world as a whole shapes up, so as fun as it might be to make a nobles, I don't want to write them up while Rhoenhiem right next door is completely empty.

I do think the druids certainly deserve some attention, and probably the lycanthropes too.

The preisthood is also pretty important but they have stronger connection to Rhoenheim, where they're from. I think I need to build Rhoenhiem first, and then go back to Sylescnia to add more. I hate getting all scattered like this.  !dodge It's driving me nuts.

Added some nice stuff to Sylescnia about the source of the evil which has permeated the nation. Finally I have included some elves! But these elves are not the wholesome friendly type. Check out Sylescnia if you haven't already.

Thanks for taking my advice, and I'll check it out now.

EDIT:  My honest opinion is that the twisting of souls who visit Sylescnia was a bit too wordy to state that the land is corrupted, but it's your perogative to leave it.  I liked the banshees though, nice touch.  I totally didn't think of the druid's as allies of the lords though, and it should surprise any players you have if you don't tell them beforehand.

QuoteMy honest opinion is that the twisting of souls who visit Sylescnia was a bit too wordy to state that the land is corrupted, but it's your perogative to leave it.

Hmmm...I wouldn't ask for opinions if I had no intention of heeding advice. What would you suggest I change to make it less "wordy." Thus far (IMHO) Sylescnia is the least wordy of all my stuff. There such a thing as over-doing things though. I just looked it over and found glaring gramatical errors LOL! so I fixed those, but beyond that it didn't seem too bad to me. Give me specifics, or even a quote that exemplifies the problems. It's really hard to edit your own work, so please give me a hand.  !sad

QuoteI liked the banshees though, nice touch. I totally didn't think of the druid's as allies of the lords though, and it should surprise any players you have if you don't tell them beforehand.

Yeah, I really wanted to make the lords powerful, but not just in a personal context. I wanted them to have their claws in everything. I'm glad you approve.  :D

Thanks again for the feedback!

Ok, I've thought it over a bit, and it would seem that the large piece about mercenaries becoming cold and abusive was a bit stretched.  I suppose you could just say that the area has that one planar trait that makes everyone who visits too miserable to want to leave...  Just a thought...

Fair Enough.

Keep in mind that, honest criticism will prove longer in the long run than a "good job" every 5 seconds.  After all, that was what this guild was made to support.  I'm just doing my best to help, although I would advise asking someone else for a second opinion before making any substantial changes.

QuoteKeep in mind that, honest criticism will prove longer in the long run than a "good job" every 5 seconds. After all, that was what this guild was made to support. I'm just doing my best to help, although I would advise asking someone else for a second opinion before making any substantial changes.

I expect more honest criticism than good job comments so that's not an issue for. I just find it odd that this area is the one you don't like, because it seems like the runaway favorite with everyone else so far.

If you check the thred, I just scrapped a whole nation...I wasn't happy with it, and when I got confirmation from somebody else that it wasn't too hot, I completely cut it. I have no problem taking bad news when I understand (and agree) with the nature of it.

With all that out of the way, I will take a serious look at that paragraph about how the evil of Sylescnia seeps into the souls of men, and see if I can't make it better. It really doesn't seem that wordy to me. It's only a tiny paragraph after all, and this thing's up to well over thirty pages in MSWord.

I do see what your saying in that it could be probably be summed up in a sentence or two, but do really need to? It'd be a totally different story if your gripe was with a spoiler that hasn't already seen such overwhelming approval.

I've heard absolutely nothing about Kashra, The Academy, or the last two merchant houses of the Syndicate, so those areas are of slightly more concern to me. I don't know if they're being glossed over, deemed unimportant, or just silently approved.

My thread is getting a huge number of hits though, and repeat reviewers, so that seems like a good sign. I only started writing this thing on the 5th (although I did have some ideas already in my head).

Anyway, I took no offense...I just found it hard to see things from your point of view on this one. Don't take that as resistance or resentment.  8)

i read the Academy, and I can tell you the reaction you have ben getting is probably silent approval.  There deosn't seem to be much left to change there, or much to add without putting too much in.

I also read Kashra, and I can say that it does look good.  you might want to look into how a group of such peaceful people could be motivated to essentially perform acts of genocide against the bugbears present in the region.

EDIT:  i just looked over al'Arach, and it seems to be great, but also missing something.  Perhaps if you described important people in their organisation, or went into whether they actually can read minds and are loyal elsewhere.(spoiler blocks, mind you)  then you might have something else to write about.

Just my thoughts...

Quotei read the Academy, and I can tell you the reaction you have ben getting is probably silent approval. There deosn't seem to be much left to change there, or much to add without putting too much in.

Well that's good.

QuoteI also read Kashra, and I can say that it does look good. you might want to look into how a group of such peaceful people could be motivated to essentially perform acts of genocide against the bugbears present in the region.

Genocide? The bugbears live in Hazra'Ghalduur now; they're not wiped out. They were simply displaced from their homeland.

A)The humans were forced from their homes into lands already owned by bugbears.
B)Humans and bugbears fight over the territory.
C)The bugbears kill the human leader, but lose the war.  
D)The surviving bugbears rebuild in Hazra'Ghalduur

It's sust two species fighting for the right to live their own lives, in a nation they can call home. There's certainly enmity, but no designs on extermination.

I'm glad you liked it though.

Quotei just looked over al'Arach, and it seems to be great, but also missing something. Perhaps if you described important people in their organisation, or went into whether they actually can read minds and are loyal elsewhere.(spoiler blocks, mind you) then you might have something else to write about.

Sometimes isn't it just better to leave a few things unanswered? There isn't much of a mystery if the whole thing is right in front of you. I want to create a setting that inspires stories; why spell out everything now? If I do that, I've written a novel, not a campaign world.

As for the important people thing...yep I will need those. But I'll need them everywhere. Before I populate Sulos with NPCs, I want to have the big picture in front of me. Sure I could make the vampiric lords of Sylescnia next, but I've got so many other questions to answer first. Each little section has ties to the others, how can I make the vampiric lords when I don't know anything about the priesthood which is converting their people?

Spoiler blocks are all well and good, but trying to hide something from a player, is quite a bit more difficult than leaving a speculative unanswered scenario, that the DM is left to extrapolate for himself. It's gets people thinking. I prefer to leave myself, or any other DM who uses this stuff, the options to fill in the blanks themselves. <Empowering DMs=Good>

There's a difference between vague and lifeless, and intentionally unfinshed. At no point should you come out of any of these spoiler sections, without asking yourself "what's missing"? Notice how the intro descriptions for each nation begin with a question? The answer isn't in the spoiler...it's in the adventure.  

That said, I'm glad you've taken the time to go through this piece by piece. You've certainly given me many things to think about. I appreciate all your suggestions, even those I don't completely agree with. Feedback of any kind is of course helpful, because even if I don't like the specifics, it may inspire me in other ways. Thanks man...

No problem.  Sorry I missed the hobgoblin thing, bt the way it was worded inclined me to believe what I said.  I also didn't read too much of Hazra'Ghalduur, so that could provide a reason as well.  Don't worry about the detailing either, I was kinda scrambing for a way to make my criticism constructive.

anyway, you have given m several interesting concepts to throw into my world, so I suppose it's an even trade-off.

Excellent. Glad to have been of service.

So, this is the infamous CBG Sulos thread.  Do you prefer to see comments here on this board or back on the WotC boards?

It makes no difference to me. Wherever you feel more comfortable.