Short and sweet
What is its definition? what is its shape and substance? Whence did it come, and how is it harnessed?
I am not asking for its form in your setting, nor will I, in some thinly veiled act of hubris, flaunt my own. Rather, what could magic be, in ways we haven't conceived?
Magic is anything that defies ordinary convention and the standard rules of reality. Generally in relation to what we know of reality here in the real world.
Building on Nomadic's convention, anything that doesn't in fact break with any laws of nature but appears to do so would be considered magic.
Of course, you could define magic more stringently as a force that directly breaks the laws of nature. If that is the definition, magic will have to be of an otherworldly nature as everything in this world will invariably follow some kind of rule-set keyed to this world (be it known or unknown).
We could imagine our material world as as a lattice of rules that holds the worlds in its known shape. Magic would be when select bars of the lattice are weakened, and the act of performing magic would involve the weakening of this lattice.
But this kind of depends on what type of magic we're talking about. If we are talking fire magic and the like, we could imagine a type of Free Energy, that hasn't yet taken form. Maybe this Free Energy reacts to certain brainwaves or something such, and can be converted into actual energy (like thermal energy for heat or kinetic energy for force).
Telepathy and the like could exist in all humans as a underdeveloped brain center that allows us to pick up on specific brain waves and interpret them. Select individuals, or trained individuals, develop this brain center to act as both a transmitter and receiver of these undiscovered brain waves.
Hope it was something like this you were looking for?
My thinking of what magic is begins with: "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." Now I know the original really means "it looks like what we think of as magic, but actually it's still following the laws of physics", but it caused me to ask a question: "Well if you can't distinguish something from magic how do you know it isn't magic?"
That to me suggests the possibility that at some level the physical laws of the universe themselves act essentially like what we think of as magic: matter and energy and spacetime are connected on some level, such that if someone could manipulate that fundamental level they could do pretty much anything that we think magic could do. How you do this manipulation is the tricky part.
Thing is that I've never liked the "magic comes from 'outside'" idea, or rather I don't really buy into the "outside = other" concept. I think of something "other" as simply being something different, that doesn't present an immediate answer but can be understood if you give it a try. And if nothing is really "other" then it can never really come from "outside", just somewhere else in the Infinite.
Quote from: Crippled CrowHope it was something like this you were looking for?
forms and functions[/i] of magic.
Does it have to be "viable" in the real world (as in it could work that way. perhaps. maybe.), or just in some imaginary world?
Btw, just an idea taken from the series The Lost Room.
The show is about a mysterious motel room that suddenly fell out of reality or something like that, and where all the objects in the room were given supernatural abilities (like a comb that stops time, a motel key that can open up to any door, and a pair of glasses that inhibit combustion).
This is a somewhat alternative idea, and the series also involves a series of Cabals who seek and gather these Objects for different purposes and with various means.
EDIT:
Another idea i considered at a point was the direct manipulation of physical laws, not through spells, but through increasing and decreasing individual laws. So to fly, you would either decrease gravity on yourself, or reverse it, and by enhancing the mass of your hand you could punch through solid steel, and to create fire you would change the temperature at which nitrogen in the air combusts. A slightly alternative, and more flexible, way of casting magic. Of course, conjurations and stuff like that would be incredibly hard, and magic would probably be slightly more difficult to control as you can only change the laws that cause the effects, and not directly cause the effects yourself.
QuoteDoes it have to be "viable" in the real world (as in it could work that way. perhaps. maybe.), or just in some imaginary world?
...like a comb that stops time... and a pair of glasses that inhibit combustion[/quote]...you can only change the laws that cause the effects, and not directly cause the effects yourself.[/quote]And this even more so.
I think my favourite description of what magic is, which I've mentioned here before, comes from Raymond E Feists's Riftwar Saga. One of the characters is explaining it to another using juggling as an example. Juggling is just a trick. Juggling with one hand is just a harder trick. Juggling with no hands is the same, just a new kind of trick. Just because it's harder to do, people call it magic.
I like the idea that magic is what makes the world go round. Everything is magical, from gravity to photosynthesis to running the four minute mile. Performing magic is simply making use of what's already there in a new and inventive way.
I think what is magic can be different depending on who views it. Magic is basically anything that can not be logically explained.
Magic is when you chance to remember the crazy, unsound little superstitions and idle imagination-games you devised when you were a small child. As children, we were the most innately creative little terrors!
I used to lie awake in bed and imagine that my bedroom was taking itself to pieces, atom by atom, particles dissolving away one at a time. I was absolutely convinved that when the ceiling and walls and floor were gone, their absence would reveal yawning black void beyond, and I would find myself falling endlessly into an accursed pit! Hah hah, how cute is that! (No, really, when you are ten years old this is terrifying.)
Hell, I used to think it was "better" if I stepped on the linoleum tiles in a particular pattern while I walked across the kitchen floor. I used to think it was "better" if I stirred the pitcher in a particular direction when I made my kool-ade. I used to think it was "better" if I had my pencils aligned in a particular way on my desk at school. Maybe it was better.
I think the conflation of magic and technology is one of the more disturbing symptoms of our collective oversaturation with fantasy literature, fantasy film, and fantasy games. We're running everything as new iterations of tired old formulae, and there's nothing magical about that anymore! The imaginative process of pioneering a new path is lost. I don't want somebody to pillage a sci-fi novel, hand me a mega-fusion-flamethrower, and tell me it's "magic" because they've replaced all the uranium with unicorn farts-- that's nothing but a let-down.
I always figured magic was some sort of external power than anything internal. Something that required a method by which to activate or access. That method varies depending on what sort of magic user you find. Words, songs, gestures, symbols, runes, dancing are all different ways to gain access to that insubstantial, external source.
Once you have the magic though...I always envisioned it as granting the ability to alter reality. The words and gestures are only as necessary as the individual make them when it comes to crafting the essence to break or change reality.
Magic raises the hackles on the back of one's neck. It is strange and inexplicable, secretive, fed by moonbeams and magnified by celestial winds.
Magic is the tinkle of chimes heard softly behind a person, in an empty room. Magic is the sudden screaming face in the fire, that imprints itself on the soul of the watcher for all the nightmares yet to come.
Magic comes in threes and is warded by circles and items that number seven. Magic is the stigmatic bloodstain and the tears of sainted statues, the sound of the bell tolling after the dome is found broken.
Wielding this is knowingly dealing with the unknown, willingly reaching for the out-of-reach, and a minute-by-minute admission of one's absurdly tiny place in an infinte canvas. Wielding magic is an abacination in an attempt to see more clearly.
Very nice LV.
I don't get it: what's so great about something being inexplicable, unknowable, mysterious, and/or etc.?
And why does magic have to be unknowable (or whatever) to be magic?
If you are exploring it empirically and manipulating it methodically, you should call it what it is: "science."
Quote from: Luminous CrayonIf you are exploring it empirically and manipulating it methodically, you should call it what it is: "science."
So what you're saying is that "magic" is simply a label and not some thing that exists independent of the word "magic"?
In case nobody realized it... I was being a smart alek.
To be serious here for a moment if you are going to do "magic" by changing the fundamental laws of the universe you would need to realize that if you are looking at it like a law it is a universe encompassing one. You change the universal law for fusion and stars go dim or burn up in moments. So then I take it you actually are talking about psychokinesis and the like or the local manipulation of reality (primarily matter) via the mind.
Also while sayings about magic and its existence in the real world (advanced technology as magic or hard stuff as magic) have some merit what I get from the OP is that this is a discussion on the magic found in fantasy (which would make sense considering what this board is devoted to). Thus to look into magic there it is a bit of what I said in regards to something outside the norm for our world. Note I didn't say the world it is being cast in but our real world. It wouldn't be considered magical to us if we could shoot fireballs with our mind in the real world if someone shot a fireball with their mind in the game.
Quote from: Nomadic'¦what I get from the OP is that this is a discussion on the magic found in fantasy'¦'¦'¦Thus to look into magic there it is a bit of what I said in regards to something outside the norm for our world.
What norm are we using? Because from what I've been able to deduce a great, big lot of the stuff that appears in science-fiction lies outside our norms. Even some of the supposedly "hard" stuff.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonI don't want somebody to pillage a sci-fi novel, hand me a mega-fusion-flamethrower, and tell me it's "magic" because they've replaced all the uranium with unicorn farts-- that's nothing but a let-down.
Hehe, I once played in a game where my character had a gun that ionized holy water into a hydrogen plasma and fired that. It was designed for fighting undead, and it worked quite well...
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawSo what you're saying is that "magic" is simply a label and not some thing that exists independent of the word "magic"?
I really have no idea where you are getting that interpretation.
Quote from: SparkletwistEnter in Clarke's quote about sufficiently advanced technology being indistinguishable from magic!
People use that quote to justify all sorts of atrocities.
Quote from: Nomadic'¦what I get from the OP is that this is a discussion on the magic found in fantasy'¦'¦'¦Thus to look into magic there it is a bit of what I said in regards to something outside the norm for our world.
Again look at my note regarding my belief that this is and should be dealing with classic magic (aka - standard fantasy magic). Nothing to do with sci-fi unless the sci-fi in question is using said magic. Also the norm should be pretty obvious here as it is the norm of the world and you are living in that world (at least I think you are... tell me if you aren't... and if so can I come visit your world?).
Okay, so far it seems Luminous, Vreeg and Crow are the ones who seem to be on track. Maybe I should have named the thread something different.
As for magic v science and whatnot, I was just last night thinking that this was turning into a creative cop-out in the fantasy community (of which I am surely guilty). Clarke's law is cool and all but it doesn't help us be
original with magic.
QuoteIf you are exploring it empirically and manipulating it methodically, you should call it what it is: "science."
"Track Reset"[/b]
To be honest this doesn't really have enough to go on to really merit a full discussion. My first post was me being as said a smart alek (you asked for the definition of magic and I gave it :P ). I probably would have said nothing else if people hadn't misunderstood what I had said several times. Nothing personal, I just can't see the point to this thread as it seems something so often discussed in so many ways that there is not much left to discuss.
Quote from: Luminous CrayonQuote from: SilvercatMoonpawSo what you're saying is that "magic" is simply a label and not some thing that exists independent of the word "magic"?
I really have no idea where you are getting that interpretation.
Put another way: Does the word magic refer to only one definable force, or is it simply a word used to label things that fall under the vague heading of "Mysterious, reality-altering" but which in fact may turn out to be separate forces?
Quote from: Nomadic'¦'¦'¦look at my note regarding my belief that this is and should be dealing with classic magic (aka - standard fantasy magic). Nothing to do with sci-fi unless the sci-fi in question is using said magic. Also the norm should be pretty obvious here as it is the norm of the world and you are living in that world (at least I think you are... tell me if you aren't... and if so can I come visit your world?).
Well, okay, then. My question has been answered. The thing is that there's more than one kind of "fantasy + magic" nowadays, and I got confused as to which one was specifically desired. Now that "classic fantasy" has been put forth i can dispense with the science/magic stuff.
'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦Except that makes it easier to think about differences. My problem is that if I don't know the workings of something I can't think of how it's different. Most of what I can think of right now is really just variations on how mages convey instructions to the magic-manipulating force, such as the differences between mages that have to sing and those that have to draw pictures.
The only one with a larger focus than that is this:
-The energy magic derives from is a duality of completely opposite forces which combine, compete, and even, in a way, cooperate to form and run the universe. So magic would draw upon these two forces, each force only being able to alter certain aspects of the universe that the other has no control over.
-However, in addition there are three ways to "do" magic: via the summoning of these energies into the universe from where is lies outside, alter their structures while they are in the universe, and finally release them back outside when they have become tired so they can be refreshed. Each one of these three ways can create only certain effects.
-So if you combine these three methods with the opposing natures of the two forces you actually have 6 different forms of basic magic.
I certainly see the point and think there is much to discuss. Vreeg certainly got it. The point is, what could magic be? New ideas we haven't seen before. Not an examination of its current incarnations, but original constructions. If no-one interested in that facet, well, whatever, but it's a little disappointing as I don't think it was been explored here in this way and it would make for an interesting exercise.
Quote from: Salacious AngelIf no-one interested in that facet, well, whatever, but it's a little disappointing as I don't think it was been explored here in this way and it would make for an interesting exercise.
I'm interested, but my problem is that I don't know what rules to start from. Are we starting from an already-established idea of what magic is? Are we starting from real-world ideas of magic and magic-seeming things? Are we starting from simply defining magic as "reality-altering power"? I'm confused.
"inventing new forms and functions of magic"
Really, interpret that as you will. From any direction, just not "this is how I understand magic to work already", or how "Joe Bob says magic works in his setting". More "what if it was X", "powered by Y", "defined by Z". This can include a new cosmology (as complex or simple as you like), a wacky origin tale, whatever.
Sorry if that hasn't been clear.
Random Example
The Second Creation, Issou, the Uncreator, was ten thousand men as he was one. When he met his blazing brother Toheih in the unformed Sky after Foul Mother Temu fled the world, their blows cut free whole beings, divisions of their fathers of whom they were part, and these foundlings fell to the world and through it, into the darkness beneath.
These creatures, each a representation of their full-bodied father, took with them the memories of First World, the world unsullied by Foul Mother Temu. Nothing more than recollections, but that alone is a powerful thing, an absence preserved by its pattern in the substance of the existent world.
The sons of Issou and Toheih, who live and brood in the shadows of the world, are bold, virile and jealous beasts. The Magi who consort with them are usually women, for the Sons lust after flesh and passion, but an exceptionally cunning man might parlay with them also. They offer the gleaming, primal creations of the First world, and their strength as warriors (and also lovers) without peer. And foremost, they offer the hate of their other half - had their separations not cut away their loyalty to their fathers' Completeness, each would assemble once again and scour the Other from the earth.
It is strange that they cannot remember why they hate. That memory died with the division of their forms, and so they fulminate in their rage without cause or purpose.
Another One
Magic is the double-edged gift the parent leaves for its child: the discontent, the sullied desires of a creature crushed by the mundane truths of the world. This dissatisfaction pours from us like lifeblood, suffusing the artifacts of our youth and empowering them. To wield magic is to seize those artifacts, and to weave from them the hopes and passions that will define a new generation.
There are also the Feends, the mad and petty godlings of desire, who seek the artifacts that they might twist our desires into absurdities.
Only children can work the sorceries of Hope. Adults have another magic, strange, wild and multivariate, and it is called Wisdom.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawQuote from: Salacious AngelIf no-one interested in that facet, well, whatever, but it's a little disappointing as I don't think it was been explored here in this way and it would make for an interesting exercise.
I'm interested, but my problem is that I don't know what rules to start from. Are we starting from an already-established idea of what magic is? Are we starting from real-world ideas of magic and magic-seeming things? Are we starting from simply defining magic as "reality-altering power"? I'm confused.
I'm back at work. this is not my how computer. I am still possessed by an urge to answer this.
Go backward, SCM. I have ben telling people since day one to create the rules to fit the setting, don't cram your square peg seting ideas into some round hole system becasue it is a prevalent system.
SA is asking what is magic like? What would you like magic to be? If you could start again and make spellcasting and dweomercraft actually seem 'magical' again, how would you want that to feel?
Until you have this down, until you understand the exact awe and the particular unease you want it to havem you should not even ask about the system. Make the system fit the stories you want to create, make it fit all tomorrow's parties. Don't let the mechanics get in the way, they are the bridge, not the journey.
Quote from: Salacious AngelIf no-one interested in that facet, well, whatever, but it's a little disappointing as I don't think it was been explored here in this way and it would make for an interesting exercise.
This was the same problem I was having. Now that I see your response though I take it this is simply a showcase for new ideas and concepts regarding magic.
I hope no one used this yet (aleister Crowley's Definition of Magic as best as I can remember it):
Magic is the art and science of causing a change to reality in accordance to your will.
Then of course, there's the Granny Weatherwax definition of magic:
A lot of magic is just knowing one more thing than the other guy.
A random thought I had the other day:
If everything that exists is Nature, then even if magic works and there is a life after death and one or more Gods exist, the set that can be defined as Supernatural is exactly zero.
Quote from: LordVreegGo backward, SCM. I have ben telling people since day one to create the rules to fit the setting, don't cram your square peg seting ideas into some round hole system becasue it is a prevalent system.
SA is asking what is magic like? What would you like magic to be? If you could start again and make spellcasting and dweomercraft actually seem 'magical' again, how would you want that to feel?
Until you have this down, until you understand the exact awe and the particular unease you want it to havem you should not even ask about the system. Make the system fit the stories you want to create, make it fit all tomorrow's parties. Don't let the mechanics get in the way, they are the bridge, not the journey.
I think I'm still confused, but I've come up with a response anyway:
I do not like the idea that anything exists simply because people wish it to be that way. Therefore even when creating a fictional magic system I like to base it on something that already lies outside my own thought. That's why I like the "science is magic" approach I was touting earlier: the laws of physics (supposedly) lie outside human thought and are thus a good base for creating magic.
And as far as I'm concerned mechanics'"'"not just game mechanics but other sorts explanations of how things work'"'"are the whole point. That's why I don't get the desire for things to be mysterious: if you don't know anything about them other than how they appear then you can only ever know them that way. There is no variety in them. It is only by having an idea, even a false one, about how they work that you can imagine them in a different form. But once that happens they aren't mysterious any more.
Quote from: LordVreegGo backward, SCM. I have ben telling people since day one to create the rules to fit the setting, don't cram your square peg seting ideas into some round hole system becasue it is a prevalent system.
SA is asking what is magic like? What would you like magic to be? If you could start again and make spellcasting and dweomercraft actually seem 'magical' again, how would you want that to feel?
Until you have this down, until you understand the exact awe and the particular unease you want it to havem you should not even ask about the system. Make the system fit the stories you want to create, make it fit all tomorrow's parties. Don't let the mechanics get in the way, they are the bridge, not the journey.
Ah but you are forgetting that in a campaign world/creator relation it isn't people creating things. It is instead the creator who plays the role of the rules of his creation. The ideal creator could do this completely unbiased but we as humans cannot be so. Thus while there is merit in your statement you should never be afraid to in the end use your own ideas. That is an important part of creating something.
On your other note I would have to argue that false ideas do not remove mystery. Sure perhaps if there is one wide sweeping concept agreed on by most the mystery is gone. Looking at humans though we can see how rare this is. Religion, exploration, even the carefully monitored research of science can and has fallen under this. Groups will argue nonstop as to the fundamental state of the universe. And yet there is little less mystery about such things. Also on this note I would point out that at least as far as human and human-like species are concerned, you cannot have unexplained mystery without someone trying to explain that mystery away. It's just how our minds work.
Quote from: NomadicAh but you are forgetting that in a campaign world/creator relation it isn't people creating things. It is instead the creator who plays the role of the rules of his creation. The ideal creator could do this completely unbiased but we as humans cannot be so. Thus while there is merit in your statement you should never be afraid to in the end use your own ideas. That is an important part of creating something.
Same thing to me, I'm afraid.
Besides, I also just don't like those ideas. I can't tell you why, maybe I just like to think that humans and similar creatures don't and shouldn't matter to the universe in any way.
Quote from: NomadicOn your other note I would have to argue that false ideas do not remove mystery. Sure perhaps if there is one wide sweeping concept agreed on by most the mystery is gone. Looking at humans though we can see how rare this is. Religion, exploration, even the carefully monitored research of science can and has fallen under this. Groups will argue nonstop as to the fundamental state of the universe. And yet there is little less mystery about such things. Also on this note I would point out that at least as far as human and human-like species are concerned, you cannot have unexplained mystery without someone trying to explain that mystery away. It's just how our minds work.
I was taking "mysterious" to mean "unexplained in any way". My intended statement was "You cannot alter something from its purely-existing form without coming up with an explanation, and thus rendering it 'non-mysterious', i.e. 'explainable in some way'".
Fair enough. Though like I said it is human nature to theorize. With that definition you cannot have mystery since as soon as someone thinks of something unexplained they are going to try to explain it. We humans are just messed up weird like that.
Though I'm somewhat confused as to what you are currently discussing, i have something personal to say on the balance between mystery and pre-determined metaphysics. I find it hard to determine whether you should aim for one or the other. If you set it all in stone, it's barely magic anymore. It loses its flair and becomes just another layer of nature. Too much mystery though, and magic becomes unfocused, uncharacteristic, and in time, uninteresting. Personally, i think i prefer something along the lines of an unknown force, that can produce a limited range of results.
Okay, that was a minor digression, onwards to the ideas.
First, question, has anybody ever come up with a working concept of how runes work? They are cool and all, and always seem magical, but really, it hardly makes sense that a specific shape should be inherently magical.
The only thing i have been able to come up with was that each rune reacted to a pulse of energy, or what have you, by creating a specific magical "tune" as a function of its shape and the way it magically "reverberates". This could also lead to some interesting concepts of rune symphonies and such :)
Other idea, and the one I'm currently using somewhat: Runes are geometric shapes that react with primal ideas in the psyche to conjure up specific emotions. (so runes can't blow up or anything, but they could be used to ward a place by instilling fear, or make people more friendly toward you).
Alternative battle mage idea: instead of shooting fire everywhere, these mages use magic and alchemy to magically boost their physique and mind to make them the perfect warriors; killing machines more or less. Supernaturally quick and strong. Also, you could let all their alchemical drugs have severe drawbacks if you're into that sort of thing.
Another battle mage: Essentially an unarmed fighter who can create an invisible force around and near his hands and his body. Not that he can create massive shields or anything, but he can create small slivers of magic force that he can use to parry and slash out at his enemies. Essentially, this fighter would be able to stop attacks in midair, and slash open an armed mans stomach with a sweeping gesture with his hand, even though he was standing a meter away from his outstretched arm. Could be cool.
I know these ideas are somewhat sketchy, so feel free to add to them. (and too many combat mages... I gotta come up with something peaceful next time.)
Must be some other ideas on the board?
By that definition of mystery it is my intent to say that the idea of "magic is mysterious" just doesn't work out logically to me. Perhaps "mysterious" is the wrong word: I was merely using what others said; "unknowable" may be a better choice. And as it is "magic is unknowable" is another idea I have a problem with: you cannot prove something is unknowable, you can only say that it is unknown to you at this time.
I know this is all probably semantics, but I don't see how something can actually be discussed without providing some logical ground rules.
Also:
Runes and channels: Magic flows through the universe in certain paths. When a rune is drawn it channels that flow through the lines in its shape, changing the flow and thus altering reality. (This explanation can also work for any other magic based upon shapes, such as Full Metal Alchemist's alchemy circles.)
Runes as commands: Runes are not inherently magical. They are simply a means of expressing the caster's desire to the true controlling force in an unambiguous way, each rune conveying the desire for the controlling force to carry out only one kind of effect.
Not to digress, but to work on what Crow said...
it is often critical when really delving into a fantasy culture understanding what affect magic has had. Your digression into combat magics brought this on.
Cows and other animals have been magically rengineered to produce more milk, and farming communes are always within range of Sacred Groves (http://celtricia.pbwiki.com/Sacred+Grove,+Lesser) to enhance the crops rewards. Again, as SA said, not to go into setting specifics too much, but to quote,
"Magic is a cornerstone of a fantasy world. Our nearly universal and eternal fascination with magic is part of the 'What If' that makes people play FRP games. Or, to put in other words, Magic is (for the most part) what makes it a Fantasy role playing game, and not merely an exercise in acting. "
So your magic defines much of the setting (what is Haveneast without the Nightmare) and the way magic interacts with day to day life, or if it interacts, is much of that definition.
If magic is a tool, can the PC's find the original, enchanted raosting pans from Hostem's House of Hospitality? Are graveyards warded to repulse necromantic energies? Can air and water magic mesh to create refrigerated areas?
I think that when defining magic in a system there are a few important points to consider.
1. What is the source of magic? Is it another natural energy that's part of the world, or some other "Magic as science" type thing? Is it fragments of a dream of a dead god leaking into our world? Is it praying to your deity for a miracle?
2. What do people know about magic? Can you have "magic scientists" that can study magic and determine a system for how it works? Have people just figured out a few things about magic through trial and error? Are some lucky few just born with the "knack" to use it, but nobody actually knows what this power is or how it works?
I think one important thing about a magic system is that it needs to make sense and be well defined, even if the people in the setting don't know how it works. LV's posts give a great feel of what magic is like to those who don't understand it. Magic should have a feeling of mystery, and people who use it should be aware that they're playing with something much bigger than they are.
Here's a Q&A I found that can be helpful when defining a magic system for your setting. Original source (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/worldbuilding1.htm)
[spoiler=Magic & Magicians Q&A]III. Magic and Magicians
-----------------------------------------------
1. Rules of Magic
Q: What things can magic not do? What are the limits to magical power? How do magicians try to get around these limits?
A:
Q: What is the price magicians must pay in order to be magicians -- years of study, permanent celibacy, using up bits of their life or memory with each spell, etc.? Does anyone ever try to get around the price of magic?
A:
Q: Is there a difference between miracles and magic? If so, how are they distinguished?
A:
Q: Where does magic power come from: the gods, the "mana" of the world, the personal willpower of the magician? Is magic an exhaustible resource? If a magician must feed his spells with his own willpower, life-force, or sanity, what long-term effects will this have on the health and/or stability of the magician? Do different races/species have different sources for their magic, or does everybody use the same one?
A:
Q: How does a magician tap his/her magic power? Does becoming a magician require some rite of passage (investing one's power in an object, being chosen by the gods, constructing or being given a permanent link to the source of power) or does it just happen naturally, as a gradual result of much study or as a part of growing up?
A:
Q: What do you need to do to cast a spell -- design an elaborate ritual, recite poetry, mix the right ingredients in a pot? Are there things like a staff, a wand, a familiar, a crystal ball, that are necessary to have before casting spells? If so, where and how do new wizards get these things? Do they make them, buy them from craftsmen, inherit them from their teachers, or order them from Wizardry Supplies, Inc.?
A:
Q: Is there a numerical limit to the number of wizards in the world? What is it? Why?
A:
Q: How long does it take to cast a spell? Can spells be stored for later, instant use? Does working spells take lots of long ritual, or is magic a "point and shoot" affair?
A:
Q: Can two or more wizards combine their power to cast a stronger spell, or is magic done only by individuals? What makes one wizard more powerful than another -- knowledge of more spells, ability to handle greater levels of power, having a more powerful god as patron, etc.?
A:
Q: Does practicing magic have any detrimental effect on the magician (such as becoming addictive, fomenting insanity, or shortening life-span)? If so, is there any way to prevent these effects? Are the effects inevitable to all magicians, or do they affect only those with some sort of predisposition? Do they progress at the same rate in everyone? Are they universal in all species, or are some races (dwarves, elves, whoever) immune to these detrimental effects?
A:
Q: How much is known about the laws of nature, physics, and magic? How much of what is commonly known is wrong (e.g., Aristotle's ideas about human anatomy, which were wrong but accepted for centuries)?
A:
Q: What general varieties of magic are practiced (e.g., herbal potions, ritual magic, alchemical magic, demonology, necromancy, etc.)? Do any work better than others, or does only one variety actually work?
A:
Q: Are certain kinds of magic practiced solely or chiefly by one sex or the other? By one race or another? Is this because of inborn ability, natural preferences, or legislation?
A:
Q: Does a magician's magical ability or power change over time -- e.g., growing stronger or weaker during puberty, or with increasing age? Can a magician "use up" all of his/her magic, thus ceasing to be a magician? If this happens, what does the ex-magician do -- die, retire, take up teaching, go into a second career, start a freelance consulting business?
A:
Q: Can the ability to do magic be lost? If so, how -- overdoing it, "burning out," brain damage due to fever or a blow, etc.?
A:
Q: Can the ability to work magic be taken away? If so, how and by whom? (Traditional example: certain spells that can only be worked by virgins; raping such a witch robbed her of her powers.)
A:
-----------------------------------------------
2. Wizards
Q: Does practicing magic have any detrimental effect on the magician (such as becoming addictive, fomenting insanity, or shortening life-span)? If so, is there any way to prevent these effects? Are the effects inevitable to all magicians, or do they affect only those with some sort of predisposition? Do they progress at the same rate in everyone? Are they universal in all species, or are some races (dwarves, elves, whoever) immune to these detrimental effects?
A:
Q: What is the price magicians must pay in order to be magicians -- years of study, permanent celibacy, using up bits of their life or memory with each spell, etc.? Does anyone ever try to get around the price of magic?
A:
Q: How do various religions,if any, view magic? Do any forbid it? Why or why not? Do any require priests/priestesses to be magicians? Do any forbid magicians from holding some or all religious offices?
A:
Q: How long does it take to learn magic?
A:
Q: Is magic a profession, an art, or just a job? What is the status accorded to magicians in this society? Are they the equivalent of shyster lawyers, politicians, and used car salesmen, or are they considered average working stiffs, or are they looked up to and admired?
A:
Q: Are wizards organized? How? What hierarchy, if any, do they recognize? What happens if the person/people at the top get killed? Who takes over? How soon?
A:
Q: Can anyone become a wizard, or does one need to be born with some special talent or gift?
A:
Q: Are different races/intelligent species good at different types of magic? If so, what types are associated with what races/species? Are there species that use magic more or less unconsciously -- for instance, dragons using magic to fly without being consciously aware of it, or werewolves using magic to change?
A:
Q: Can you make a living practicing magic, or do you have to have independent means? If you can make a living, what are you doing -- making magic swords, or making it rain for local farmers? What's a wizard's job market like? What's a wizard's average income, relative to the rest of society?
A:
Q: Are magicians a force in politics, or are they above it? Are there national politics that revolve around magic/wizards (i.e., trying to outlaw, protect, or promote certain kinds of magic, trying to draft wizards into a ruler's army, licensing of magicians, etc.)? Do wizards have a lobby? Do they need one?
A:
Q: Does it require a license to be a wizard? If so, is it more like a driver's license (something nearly everyone in our culture gets upon coming of age) or like a doctor's license (something only a small percentage of the population will ever get)? Who certifies wizards: government, wizard's guild/AMA, local priests?
A:
Q: How do local people view wizards? Are they good guys, bad guys, Clint Eastwood (call in only to get rid of dragons), regular working stiffs, ivory-tower academics, nuisances who make it rain when you're plowing, dangerous folks to stay away from?
A:
Q: How do you get to be a wizard/magician? Does it require inborn talent, study and hard work, practice, or all of the above?
A:
Q: Are wizards barred from certain kinds of government jobs or offices? Do some government jobs require that their holder be a wizard?
A:
Q: If magic requires study, where do you go to learn about it? How do people fund their training? Is there an apprenticeship system, or are there wizard schools, or is it one-on-one tutoring/mentoring? Is an untrained wizard dangerous, or just an ordinary person?
A:
Q: Do wizards have a special language that is used for magic? If so, where do they learn it? Is it safe to chat in this language, or is everything said in it automatically a spell? If so, how can it safely be taught to new students?
A:
Q: Is magic considered a science, or are scientists and wizards enemies or rivals? Are magic and science compatible? To what degree does the presence of magic, magical objects, and wizards replace technology (for example, a chest that is enchanted to keep its contents cold could replace the refrigerator)? Duplicate technology? Supplement technology?
A:
Q: Are wizards above or below the law -- I.e., do they have full rights as citizens, no rights, or can they do as they like without regard to anyone else's rights?
A:
Q: Is the relative power of a country or ruler usually measured by the size of the army, the number and ability of his wizards, or the amount of money at his disposal?
A:
Q: Can two or more wizards combine their power to cast a stronger spell, or is magic done only by individuals? What makes a powerful magician?
A:
Q: What do you need to do to cast a spell -- design an elaborate ritual, recite poetry, mix the right ingredients in a pot? Are there things like a staff, a wand, a familiar, a crystal ball, that are necessary to have before casting spells? If so, where and how do new wizards get these things? Do they make them, buy them from craftsmen, inherit them from their teachers, or order them from Wizardry Supplies, Inc.?
A:
Q: Where does magic power come from: the gods, the "mana" of the world, the personal willpower of the magician? Is magic an exhaustible resource? If a magician must feed his spells with his own willpower, life-force, or sanity, what long-term effects will this have on the health and/or stability of the magician? Do different races/species have different sources for their magic, or does everybody use the same one?
A:
Q: How does a magician tap his/her magic power? Does becoming a magician require some rite of passage (investing one's power in an object, being chosen by the gods, constructing or being given a permanent link to the source of power) or does it just happen naturally as part of growing up, like puberty?
A:
Q: Does a magician's magical ability or power change over time -- e.g., growing stronger or weaker during puberty, or with increasing age? Can a magician "use up" all of his/her magic, thus ceasing to be a magician? If this happens, what does the ex-magician do -- die, retire, take up teaching, go into a second career, start a freelance consulting business?
A:
Q: Is a magician's lifetime normally longer or shorter than average? Why? Does this vary for different races/species? Are there races/species all of whose members are magicians?
A:
Q: Are there fashions/fads in magic -- are herbal spells "in" this year and ritual spells "out," or vice versa?
A:
Q: Are certain spells (as opposed to magic generally) illegal? Why -- because of the effect of the spell, or because of the ingredients or procedures needed to cast it, or what? If so, how would a criminal magician be detected? Apprehended? Punished? Is catching and punishing illegal magicians the responsibility of the magician's guild, or do the ordinary courts have to handle it?
A:
-----------------------------------------------
3. Magic and Technology
Q: Are there magical means of transportation (teleport spells, magic carpets, dragon-riding)? How do they compare in speed, safety and expense to non-magical means? Are there any drawbacks to magical travel (for example, teleport sickness)? How commonly are they used, and for what purposes (industrial shipping vs. travel for fun)?
A:
Q: Are there magical means of rapid communication? How commonly are they used? For what purposes?
A:
Q: Are magical weapons available? Can magic be used in warfare? In what ways? Are spells fast enough to be useful in hand-to-hand combat, or is magic more of a siege weapon, used only for long, slow things?
A:
Q: How has the presence of magic affected weapons technology? Can magic make weapons more effective? Do you have to do anything special to walls, armor, or weapons to make them better able to resist enemy spells?
A:
Q: How has the presence of magic affected weapons technology? Can an ordinary, non-weapon-type object be enchanted to make it extremely lethal (the Frying Pan of Death) or will this work properly only on things that are already weapons? Can ordinary objects be enchanted to make them (or their user) supremely good at something (the Frying Pan of Ultimate Gourmet Cooking, the Comb of No Bad Hair Days Ever)? How common and useful are such enchantments?
A:
Q: To what degree does the presence of magic, magical objects, and wizards replace technology (for example, a chest that is enchanted to keep its contents cold could replace the refrigerator)? Duplicate technology? Supplement technology?
A:
Q: Can spells and/or magical items be mass-produced? Are there magic carpet factories and boutiques selling magic rings?
A:
Q: Can spells and/or magical items be used to increase the efficiency of manufacturing or mass production? Do businesses keep a wizard on retainer, as modern businesses might keep a lawyer or efficiency expert? What, exactly, are they paying for?
A:
-----------------------------------------------
4. Miscellaneous Magic Questions
Q: Are the laws of nature and physics actually different in this world (to accommodate magic), or are they the same as in real life? How does magic fit in? How do magical beasts fit in?
A:
Q: If there are imaginary animals (dragons, unicorns, etc.), how do they fit into the ecology? What do they eat? How much habitat do they require? Are they intelligent and/or capable of working spells, talking, etc.?
A:
Q: Where did civilization begin? What directions did it spread? How was its development affected by the presence of magic? The presence of non-human races, if any? The direct or indirect action of the gods?
A:
Q: In what ways can magic or spells be abused? How often does this happen?
A:
Q: Which peoples/races/cultures are considered the most civilized? Which are most technologically advanced? Which are most magically advanced? Least advanced?
A:
Q: Is magic legal? All magic, or only some types? Do laws vary widely from country to country, or is the attitude generally similar?
A:
Q: What wild animals, actual or imaginary, live in this area? Are any of them potentially useful -- e.g., for fur, whale oil, hides, magical ingredients, hat feathers?
A:
Q: Are there magical beasts, like dragons and unicorns? If so, which ones? How many? Are they common, or are some endangered species? Have any been domesticated?
A:
Q: Are there magical artifacts (rings, swords, etc.)? If so, who makes them and how? Are the spells permanent, or do they wear off after a while?
A:
Q: Where is scientific and/or magical research done -- universities, private labs, under the auspices of the ruler/government, etc.?
A:
Q: Given the magical/technological level of this society, what is an appropriate ration of farmers or food producers to urban residents? If farm production is based on magic, how many urban residents are going to starve if the spells supporting farming (weather, land fertility, etc.) fail suddenly?
A:
Q: What are the major political factions at present? How long have they been around? Which factions are allies, which enemies? Are there any potential new forces on the political scene (e.g., a rising middle class, a university gaining unexpected power because of certain magical discoveries, etc.)
A:
Q: Are magicians a force in politics, or are they above it? Are there national politics that revolve around magic/wizards (i.e., trying to outlaw, protect, or promote certain kinds of magic, trying to draft wizards into a ruler's army, licensing of magicians, etc.)? Do wizards have a lobby? Do they need one?
A:
Q: How much has the presence of magic affected strategy and tactics in general? Is magic used primarily for intelligence gathering (spells of invisibility, scrying, etc.), or are there spells that are of use on the battlefield (summoning a demon to attack the enemy, casting fire storms at them, etc.)? If battlefield magic is possible, how can it be defended against?
A:
Q: Is healing generally a magical process? If so, how does the magical healing talent work? Does a magical healer have to consciously direct the healing process (meaning that lots of knowledge of anatomy, etc., would be required), or does magical healing simply speed up the normal, unconscious healing process in the patient? Is there more than one kind of magical healer (as there are surgeons, eye doctors, etc.)? Are there both magical and non-magical healers, and if so, are they rivals or simply different specialties?
A:
Q: What level is medicine at? Who are the healers? Do you have to have a talent to heal, or just training? Who trains healers, herbalists, apothecaries, surgeons, magical vs. nonmagical healers, etc.?
A:
Q: Is forensic magic possible? Commonly used? Used only for certain types of crimes (and if so, what)? Are the results of forensic spells admissible in court as evidence? Is it something any wizard can do, or do you have to specialize?
A:
Q: Are there separate civil and criminal courts? Human and non-human courts? Is there a separate court or procedure for magical crimes? What is different about each type of court? Are judges or other court officials required/forbidden to know magic? Is evidence obtained by magic acceptable in court? Is evidence obtained by magic considered more reliable or less reliable than physical evidence or eyewitness accounts?
A:
Q: Can magic be used in the arts, and if so, how -- paint that glows, pictures that move, flutes that play themselves, etc.? How do "normal" artists feel about this? Is there a separate branch of purely magical art, such as illusion?
A:[/spoiler]
Just a small question in between posts: How many of you operate with multiple types of magic in your campaign? Not as in different schools, or casting methods, but types of magic that operate vastly differently?
Quote from: PellanorI think one important thing about a magic system is that it needs to make sense and be well defined, even if the people in the setting don't know how it works. LV's posts give a great feel of what magic is like to those who don't understand it. Magic should have a feeling of mystery, and people who use it should be aware that they're playing with something much bigger than they are.
So magic should be mysterious to the people
in the world, but doesn't need to be to the people
outside the world?
One thing I definitely agree with is that magic should feel bigger than the people who encounter it. But I think there's one further question that needs to be asked: is the magic bigger than people as a whole? The way I see this, if magic can understand what "true love" is, or understand that a picture of an animal painted on a cave wall is more than just bits of dirt smeared on rock, then it can still be bigger than one person but is subordinate to the larger people-group of culture.
Quote from: SilvercatSo magic should be mysterious to the people in the world, but doesn't need to be to the people outside the world?
Runes and channels: Magic flows through the universe in certain paths. When a rune is drawn it channels that flow through the lines in its shape, changing the flow and thus altering reality. (This explanation can also work for any other magic based upon shapes, such as Full Metal Alchemist's alchemy circles.)[/quote]
Runes as commands: Runes are not inherently magical. They are simply a means of expressing the caster's desire to the true controlling force in an unambiguous way, each rune conveying the desire for the controlling force to carry out only one kind of effect.[/quote]
Arcane Writs[/b]
The Celestial Bureaucracy is a busy place. Hundreds of thousands of millions of spirit-functionaries and elementals of every possible conception; Administrator Gods who dream awash in the bewildering crush of the world's intentions, sifting, sorting and reconciling its divisions into a comprehensible whole.
Magic is the will of the Bureaucracy, manifest in the miraculous writs handed down by the Admin-Gods. Each writ describes an action, an event or outline of events to manifest on earth. Elementals have these laws written into their very nature, while spirits must carry them on their person. They are obsessively protective of theirs, for to lose it is to lose one's right to exist in the world.
To work magic, a sorcerer must possess a writ. How he does so is up to him: bribe, cajole, seduce or abuse a spirit; split open an elemental and soak its ghostly blood up with a scroll; even petition a God or higher functionary for one. You can even counterfeit one, in theory, but this is a stupid, stupid, stupid thing to do.
Every writ is different, and some are prodigiously more powerful than others. One might read: "On the Morning of the Sixteenth of High Willow, a fearsome flame shall arise in the mid of the road at the crossroad of the West and East roads of Red Hill". Possessing the writ makes it happen, but only if you're at the crossroad at that time. and only once (well you could wait a
year). Conversely, a writ might state "(s)he who possesses this writ is hereby empowered to summon from the mid of any road a fearsome flame no wider than three cubits and no higher than eleven, between the hours of Crow and Toad inclusive."
A canny mortal can often spy the heavenly bureaucrats at work, scurrying restlessly from place to place or waiting anxiously at a spot for the time of their writ's activation.
The greatest of writs command perpetual states, or delineate concepts and the relationships of base materials. The Laws of Physical Orders are held a the heart of the Celestial Archive, hidden from all, for their power cannot be trusted to anyone, god or mortal. Of course, early drafts did get around, and any alchemist would give his left eye and his manhood for a copy.
Quote from: PellanorI think that when defining magic in a system there are a few important points to consider.
Here's a Q&A I found that can be helpful when defining a magic system for your setting. Original source (http://www.sfwa.org/writing/worldbuilding1.htm)
Huge fan of that entire booklet... I have it printed out and bound in hardcopy.
Quote from: Satanic Panic 4EThat's cool. It's even conceivable that said magical current is on a large scale (such as ley lines), and that a "rune" must be built on that scale. So it's technically not a rune now, I guess, more like standing stones: you align the construct with intersecting or proximal streams of magic, allowing the currents to suffuse the stones - becoming "attuned", if you will - then reconfigure them. Generally, a specific act must take place in an area whose magics govern the energies involved; smaller stones have smaller effects, but can also channel smaller streams, to the point of true runes, which can be used anywhere for really petty things like divination.
A further refinement of that concept is to realize that if patterns of lines are what makes the rune then maybe these patterns occur in nature, creating magical places. Maybe this is a manifestation of the gods' will, and seers might be trained or have the talent to find and interpret these manifestations. This again suggests another idea: maybe people originally learned runes by copying patterns they saw in areas of magical nature, and it might be possible to learn runes on one's own the same way and not need to have them taught to you (D&D example: wizards learn formalized runes, sorcerers picked them up on their own and are thus more "primal").
Quote from: Satanic Panic 4EArcane Writs *snip*
You know, this is a very nice idea for a comedic game where writs get mixed-up or have a typo or a celestial lackey mess up for some reason (and maybe gets fired, creating an amusing origin for a PC) or some evil spirit steals someone's Writ of Existence and suddenly the bureaucracy is after them. Basically anything you could come up with regarding a bunch of anal-retentive guys running the universe.
I've got another, though it may not fit the original topic:
Magic is sentient and doesn't like to be ordered around: This could probably be thought of as "magic is a god": magic has its own mind of what it wants to do and doesn't respond to entreaties from mortals. Of course maybe some mortals know how to get magic to do what they want anyway, but they have to be really sneaky about it otherwise the magic will know and come after them. An additional idea is the possibility that magic, for whatever reason, gives powers to mortals. Not the ability to do varied kinds of magic, but more specific powers: the sensory and physical talents of a cat, the ability to create wind, etc. These would only be bestowed, they can't be earned. (I think you could run some interesting themes with this: destiny (granted powers) vs. free will (manipulating magic), cheating (stealing magic) vs. accepting what you have (your one power).)
I'm not sure the next one fits the thread topic, but I think it's an interesting idea:
Magic follows its own rules of inheritance: You don't inherit magic like genes, which are nice and neat and give you percentage chances. No, you inherit magic as if each parent was a bottle of wine and someone decided how much to pour into you. Maybe none, maybe all of it, maybe only 2/3rds of the whole. Twins might not inherit the same amount. And ask yourself: what happens if the wine is actually drained and not copied like a gene? And if the setting includes different kinds of magic then you have yet another question to ask: if the parents have different magic how much of the wine is from which parent? And maybe the wine metaphore comes from magic-sucking demons who've gone conesseur'¦'¦'¦'¦
An alternative version of the writ idea:
Wizards have only one magic power: a sixth sense that tells them when a miracle is about to happen nearby. The people we know as wizards have no control over the magic they claim to control, but are expert actors, proficient at going with the flow and playing on peoples' superstitions. Essentially, they are gifted improvisational actors. Rituals, gestures, and incantations have nothing to do with the miracle, but are only included for the added drama and mystery. Although the sixth sense would probably under most circumstances tell what the miracle involved, it might occasionally be more taciturn leaving the details unsaid. Most wizards could be addicts, living and breathing for the next Miracle Rush.
Magic is the folding and collapsing of time and space. Magical effects have been studied for centuries and have largely been explained in terms of science, but the how and why these events occur still eludes people.
I haven't read the posts after this yet but I wanted to comment on your ideas here.
Quote from: Crippled CrowThough I'm somewhat confused as to what you are currently discussing, i have something personal to say on the balance between mystery and pre-determined metaphysics. I find it hard to determine whether you should aim for one or the other. If you set it all in stone, it's barely magic anymore. It loses its flair and becomes just another layer of nature. Too much mystery though, and magic becomes unfocused, uncharacteristic, and in time, uninteresting. Personally, i think i prefer something along the lines of an unknown force, that can produce a limited range of results.
First, question, has anybody ever come up with a working concept of how runes work? They are cool and all, and always seem magical, but really, it hardly makes sense that a specific shape should be inherently magical.
The only thing i have been able to come up with was that each rune reacted to a pulse of energy, or what have you, by creating a specific magical "tune" as a function of its shape and the way it magically "reverberates". This could also lead to some interesting concepts of rune symphonies and such :)[/quote]
Essentially an unarmed fighter who can create an invisible force around and near his hands and his body. Not that he can create massive shields or anything, but he can create small slivers of magic force that he can use to parry and slash out at his enemies. Essentially, this fighter would be able to stop attacks in midair, and slash open an armed mans stomach with a sweeping gesture with his hand, even though he was standing a meter away from his outstretched arm. Could be cool. [/quote]
Alternative battle mage idea: instead of shooting fire everywhere, these mages use magic and alchemy to magically boost their physique and mind to make them the perfect warriors; killing machines more or less. Supernaturally quick and strong. Also, you could let all their alchemical drugs have severe drawbacks if you're into that sort of thing. [/quote]
For something like this, you don't even need the person to be a mage. I just see this as a person making use of some sort of magical drug to become a better fighter, or maybe even gain magical casting. In a past setting we had a drug called Boost which gave a random 1d20 magical effect for a limited time to the user, while having severe and permanent drawbacks on your health.
Other ideas for magic-users that I'll throw in the ring:
Furthering on your idea of runes affecting emotions, you could have a specific group of negotiators and mediators that use runes that act as a magical drug to make people more peaceful around them when they draw specific runes.
Magic casters that use spirits to accomplish the same things a wizard does. Need a fireball? Burn up a handful of human ghosts and send them to go explode, screaming in agony into a pack of goblins. Okay so maybe that one's a little evil..
Hey, I just got a another idea:
Magic IS the Unknown: Not just another "magic is strange and weird" but magic is literally the substance of what we don't know. It will never be defined and locked in books because that would defeat what it is. When we're children there is a lot of magic because we know so little. And gaining magic power doesn't drive you mad, it's the slow realization that you can't really know anything which just so happens to come with insane power'¦'¦'¦
Mebbe you can also gain power by forgetting things. Mages are actually juvenile naifs, with little wisdom and less experience (they sacrifice the knowledge of their past at every turn in order to gain the power of dissolution). They don't get along well with other people because they're so obsessed with their own ignorance.
wrong thread
Quote from: khyron1144Then of course, there's the Granny Weatherwax definition of magic:
A lot of magic is just knowing one more thing than the other guy.
This suggests the possibility of a "Wizard" class that gets to be a "Wizard" by having a lot of maxed out knowldege skills (or whatever your favored system's local equivalent is) with little to no actual spellcasting ability.
One of my favorite systems, Mayfair Game's DC Heroes had some interesting variations on magic. Powers are divided into the three categories of Physical, Mental, or Mystic. One power, Mystic Link, is always bought in conjunction with another power and all it does is make a Physical or Mental power count as Mystic and thus magic. Among other things this means that a charcter with a Mystic-Linked version of a Physical attack power, like Flame Project or Acid, can be used to hurt Superman because he has a vulnerability to magic.
Another, Sorcery, lets you imitate any other power in the system. If you have the Sorcery power rated at 10 APs, you could imitate one power at 10 APs or two at 5 APs or any combination adding up to 10 APs at any one time. The downside is that you compare the APs of Sorcery you're currently using against your Spirit attribute ( a sort of Mystic hit points) on the resistance table and if it indicates positive RAPs, you take the corresponding amount of Spirit damage.
The third is the Ritual Magic subskill of the Occultist skill. This is another use any power power, but it takes time and components that cost money to use. There's also a chance of failure for this one.
Speaking of ignorance and super-heroes at (almost) the same time reminds me of supervillain in some comic that apparently had all the superpowers you hadn't thought of.
Hmm, sounds like we think of runes in different ways. I think the idea of something working "just because it does" is odd, and for the same reason i dislike gestures and incantations that do not serve a specific purpose. Unless your magic is sentient, or the words actually have power which is an idea i dislike, incantations don't serve much purpose.
Idea here for you that gets around sentient magic in regards to verbal, written, and somatic components. They don't do anything for the magic. In theory the caster could cast just by looking at something and thinking (getting un-mysterious here for a second, not so much strict mind magic as magic being effected by certain combinations of brain activity; electrical signals and such). However the commands used in speaking and moving (whether just with gestures or pen strokes) make casting magic much easier. Indeed only a grand master can control his thoughts enough to activate the certain parts of the brain that can shape magic without movement or speech.
Perhaps the command to fuse an objects matter together and bind it into something stronger requires a gesture with the left hand that matches the strokes for "R" so a magician might learn that when he needs to do this he draws an R shape on the object. Plenty of magicians actually draw it with charcoal or the like since it makes them seem more "magical".
Hmm, if I seem to understand this discussion properly we are looking for new ways to view magic.
When the world was first created fromt he Aether all things were formed, all mass, energy, and laws of being which we today have discovered as "science." However no piece of art is ever made perfect or ever made complete. Magic is when we find the small cracks where creation is not complete, and begin to add our own paint to the masterpiece of Creation. If you prefer a sillier answer you could think of magic as lying to the universe and sneaking little violations past when the Laws of Physics aren't watching very attentively.
Aradoom
-however I'm not entirely sure if thats an original answer, someone may have thought of it before me and if they have please point out who (because as you've pointed out, the mass of fantasy literature has grown rather large)
To go further on what I said... as certain electrical impulses enable magic it might lead to electrical phenomena forming temporary pockets of wild magic. Imagine a lightning strike that ends up causing the tree it struck to glow blue for several minutes or perhaps it spawns small flaming balls that go skipping along the ground.
To give magic a more solid basis in fact here (instead of just that odd phenomena) we can tie it in with life energy. Life is actually a thing that is channeled into something to make it a living being. The rules of entropy still being in effect here, it leaks, it spreads out. All around you is this force (having previously flowed out of the living). When a creature runs out of this energy it dies (wounds and sickness of course aggravate the loss of life energy).
Certain things can attract and interact with this force. Electricity is a very strong manipulator of it. Because living things use electrical signals to transmit bodily commands they can, with proper training, control the flow of energy around them. With this you can do all sorts of things. Since life energy (odd name... perhaps Aether would be a better term...) is actually the fundamental building block for other types of energy (like atoms are for matter) it enables you to control energy of all forms. So there you have it.
- Focus mind
- Electrical impulses drive aether manipulation
- Aether manipulates local energy
- Energy manipulation does the required job
- Tada! Magic
Good idea, Nomad. It somewhat resembles the Free Energy idea i posted in one of my first posts in this thread.
I also designed a magic system based on "Anomalies" at a point, but that mostly involved individuals who were somewhat flawed in regards to the universe, and therefore possessed magical powers (for example, the world might interpret their anger as fire instead, so whenever he got angry he could light fires or the like). I kinda dumped that system though, although i have a player who has the aforementioned ability.
As to the gestures and incantations just being a help of concentration, i must admit i had forgotten that idea... I believe they use that idea in the Riddle of Steel RPG, and also in the Wheel of Time novels, right?
Another energy-based concept: By mutilating their eyes in a magical procedure, wizards lose some of their eyesight, but gain the ability to see energy flows. When things move, they can see streams of kinetic energy flowing through them, when things burn, they can see the heat emitting from the combustion. Using a special wand, they can grab on to that energy and stop or move it, redirecting the flows as they see fit. Removing potential energy can cause objects to hover, redirecting kinetic can stop people in their tracks or cause them to move backwards. Thermal energy can be grabbed onto and be used to burn enemies. This would be much the same as classic magic, but the way it's used would perhaps lead to some creative uses. Also, you have to have a compatible energy source nearby to actually do anything.
Also, in opposition to my earlier post, but closer to what I use personally...MAgic as the divergent replacement for science should follow the same rules of discovery/evolution.