Ok, so we made it to no. 74. Horray, huzzay, yippy, w00t! and other generic cries of yayness. Believe me, I am as happy as anyone else the boards have come this far, and it gladdens my heart that we are rising through the ranks. However, of all the websites on the top 100 list, we have the lowest number of views, and I think (unless I missed one) are the only site with more votes than views. That means that we, the posters, need to attract more people to view these boards, which I believe deserve the title of "Best Boards Ever." (BTW, as a side not, I think everyone should click the link to get back after voting. Just to make sure we don't fall behind in the view:vote ratio.) Anyway, onto the suggestions for improvement.
A) The Post: This should be viewable too any visitor, so people have a reason to return to visit again and again. Articles to publish here should cover variant rules (Such as Xeviats Mana system and Nasty's classes) to design articles (I'll be publishing some soon, including articles on incorporating real world religions without sounding like an idiot, how to design a flavorful and balanced race, how to build a setting on the fly for a game, and more), to reviews of DnD products (ElDo's review of TOM was excellent, I'd love to see more like that. Also, I'm going to publish a brief article on how to make the fullest use of the CBG, for new members to view upon arrival.
B) Directory: We should have a directory, easily avaliable to visitors, of all settings that are finished enough to game in. This is largely up to the creator, but once you feel your setting is ready to game in, there should be some master index for people who come here and are looking for a setting to game in.
C) More generic material: I for one am going to be adding to every new thing I create how (and if) it would fit into Datrik, Thaedia, Sooth, Eberron, Forgotten Realms, Oriental Adventures, and Generic DnD (greyhawk). Creatures that seem particularly thematically appropriate will also have entries to how to tie them into Planescape, Ravenloft, or other settings. While that's rather ambitious of me, a 'generic' line for new classes, monsters, races, etc would make them a better resource for visiting posters.
D) Hosting: an index of hosted material would be wonderful. It doesn't have to be anything complex as an automatically updated list, and I would be happy to manually update a list of hosted material every other day or something along those lines (so long as it wasn't complex in HTML). Meanwhile, we should use the hosting area to its fullest, showing new members the power of the tool they are given for free for joining and showing off what we have.
E) Community World: I'll be posting here again shortly, and we all should pitch in. I don't want it to die, and I think it's had time now to mature some before we hop back in. It needed to ripen, if you will, and now that it has I think we should get back to work on it. Plus, once finished, we could publish it for funding to expand the CBG and reward our great admins for all their hard work, plus give the CBG a minor budget to hire an in house artist or whatnot.
That's what I have for now. Discuss these ideas, and any others you may have, to draw, attract, and keep new members coming back.
I'd also like to repost an excerpt from WotC CBG member Green, who seemed to vanish after she posted a mission statement on what she thought the CBG should be.
Quote from: GreenSo far I think this is the start of a guild, and the idea has a lot of potential. Yet, I think there is more that a guild can do and offer besides constructive feedback and a format for presentation.
Some of the things that would make the Campaign Builder's Guild more attractive to me are the following:
1. Standardized format for world-building resources. I prefer having them grouped by academic subject or discipline and offer a brief (paragraph or less) description of the contents of those resources. This helps world-builders find the tools they need more easily. People who want geography can go to those resources. People who want economics can go somewhere else. People who need a website on a specific culture's mythology can find it with less hassle. And so on and so forth for things like languages, cultures, etc.
2. A pro-active approach to world-building. The typical approach is post a setting and wait for response. For many reasons, I don't find this the most efficient way to go about sharing our ideas. I'd like to see setting designers not just create worlds, but analyze them and think about them in new ways. I want to see how everyone's world becomes geared toward a different play experience, not just same old D&D with different window dressing. I want to see growth in designers and their settings. I think there is an alternative to get people more engaged with each other's settings as well as their own settings.
How about this: Let's use new threads to ask questions about our settings. Not something where you just post facts (What races does your world have), but something geared to help you reveal what your world is like (What are sources of racial harmony and conflict in your world?). The things we talk about on the thread don't have to make it to the final version of your setting. By and large, they probably won't. The goal is to make you think, to expand and deepen your understanding of your setting. It may or may not help in the creation of a world, but when (not if) revising comes along, this intimacy with your creation helps you better decide what must stay and what must go.
3. Provide a multitude of ideas and inspiration for methods of setting design. Bottom-up and top-down are far from the only ways of creating an engaging world. Different methods emphasize different aspects, and this reveals different ways of understanding what setting means. By sharing different methods, we can provide additional tools for creating settings as well as more diverse ways of perceiving them.
4. Activities and exercises that help us flex our creative and communicative muscles but don't demand too much time away from our ongoing projects. Maybe one day we can do a thread where we describe the perfect cover for our settings. Perhaps another day we present an aspect of our settings within a certain word limit. Or sometime we can design a short adventure (or adventure hook) for our setting. All in all, these can be things that show what we can do with our settings and show what they are like.
These are just a few things that I think may be interesting and worthwhile things the Campaign Builder's Guild can organize.
A lot of these things were unattainable in the atmosphere of CBG at the time, but I think a lot of it could be accomplished now. With the apparent decline of Cebegia, I think some community projects like those Green proposed should also be considered to attract new members, in addition to Xathan's brilliant suggestions.
no. 4 on Green's list is actually brilliant. I'm getting the idea for a "Master Setting Builder" competition, modeled off of the Master DM Competitions on the wizards boards, where you will be designing/describing something, all with the context of your setting.
I'd be happy to run such a Competition, though it'd be nice to have someone to alternate with to allow me to compete ever so often. :)
Actually, I really like all of Green's ideas, now that I read over them. I think we have no. 1 already: The Core Ethos Nasty posted is a great standarized way of posting settings, at least the discriptions of them. Number 3 can be done in The Post, with articles on it, and I think no. 2 is actually a great idea: I'm going to start posting stuff in my "discussion" threads in that format.
Okay guys, I have to work today, and I have a lot of ideas on thoughts on this. #4 on Green's is something I've been working on for awhile, and most of the things Xanthan brought up at the beginning are things I've brought up in the past, such as how to more efficiently us "The Post," and having directories for campaign settings, both "hosted," and otherwise. I wish there was currently some way of doing prizes for said competitions, and in the future, there may be options available with this, but right now, it would basically just be fun experiments. One reason I'm going to promote a moderator is to take care of some of these things that everyone seems to want to do, but that I somehow either miss or forget about due to the fact that I'm simply not around here as often as most of you guys (work, band, piano lessons, etc). So with that being said, let's keep the discussion going in this thread right now without starting multitudes of new threads, and lets work out the kinks on some of these ideas before we start posting even more things to do that will take time away from working out said kinks ;) See you guys this afternoon.
Quote from: 1558
I believe that's the page that'll up our view count when we click the CBG link.
[blockquote=We should have a directory, easily avaliable to visitors, of all settings that are finished enough to game in.[/blockquote]
I agree, 100%.
QuoteHosting: an index of hosted material would be wonderful...
More indexing = more good!
Currently though, only a few people are making use of the hosting option. I know Turin has a well-detailed page up, but I'm not sure about others that are actually being used significantly. The hosting doesn't have to be strictly for a homebrew campaign, but it should be D&D/d20 - related. That means, don't even think about putting pr0n up , and no sites about your vacation or anything.;) Daggerhart, brainface, and I spent a good bit of time and energy on that hosting option, and I hope it gets a bit more use.
I think that, amoung other things, the Hosting option should be advertised-- the editing software can be a little cumbersome, but hey, it's free for users. That's a serious boon that should be one of the key attractions to the site, in my opinion.
I think I'm going to begin writing more reviews about some of the older books in my collection, beginning with books I like and why, to pad the Post a bit more. As a few others have said, the Post is definitely an option that should be viewable to guests.
I might look into using my Host page some, and there's stuff that I want to do with my site that I can't. Namely, I've been toying with starting a Superhero d20 Project, but I've nowhere the time nor capacity to capture that by myself-- interested users who want to be project members should contact me. I'd probably use my Host site as a base for that project, should it take off.
Here's a few ideas of contests/games we can have that are a little less "Dragon's Den-oriented" and more "Campaign Creation-oriented"
Write a Generic Adventure
People would write up generic adventures for a certain party level (decided at the time of the game). The adventure should be able to fit into [most] any campaign setting. All adventures, at the end of the gaming term, would be put in the "the Post," but the "winner" (posssibly decided by poll vote) would have his adventure featured on the front page, as well as win some sort of prize (to be discussed below).
Create a Monster
Everyone would have to come up with a 100% original monster that could be used in [most] any campaign setting. Again, all monsters would be put in "the Post," and the winner would have his monster shown on the front page. There would be a prize for this as well.
Create a Random Adventure Site
Basically a scaled-down version of the "Create an Adventure" game, one site would be created, along with maps, roaming monsters, ecology, and history.
Best Homebrew Class/Race Game
Anyone could submit their own homebrew class/race to be voted on. All would be put in the "the Post," but the winner would receive a front page article and prize.
For prizes, I'm trying to think of things that aren't going to cost me money (unless you guys want to start paying for this site ;)). Right now, for the "Create a Monster," "Best Homebrew Class/Race" games, the prize could be a [relatively] professionally drawn portrait of said monster/class/race. Maybe I could get one of you guys here that is a little more artistically inclined than I to spend some time to draw up a nice picture, or I also know some artists around here that are looking to help me out.
Now, to Green's #4 favorite, the "Perfect Campaign Cover," for our homebrews, I have an idea. I know a gentleman who has told me he would hand-paint a cover for me as long as I advertise his art gallery, which I have no problem with (since it's fantasy-related art). So, the prize for that could be a very beautifully hand-painted cover as described by the campaign author. So anyway, what do you guys think of these?
Other ideas for the contests/games:
The Origin of: A small chunk of information explaining where an invention, organization, religion, or nation emerged. It'd be cool to see people explain how their flying ships and orc nations came to be, and even inventions as simple as The Wheel would be fun to write an origin for, even if it's nothing more than a few primitive humanoids searching for simpler transportation.
NPC/Artifact Creation : It would also be something to see people create characters or artifacts from their worlds and give their functions/goals/intents, and give a brief history.
:)
I think it's great, but a alot of these are heavily mechanics inclined. If that's what you're looking for, great. but I know I havel little to know experience with building my own mechanics, even if I can move fluff around just fine. Maybe a fiction contest? Just my thoughts...
Quote from: IshmaylHere's a few ideas of contests/games we can have that are a little less "Dragon's Den-oriented" and more "Campaign Creation-oriented"
Write a Generic Adventure
People would write up generic adventures for a certain party level (decided at the time of the game). The adventure should be able to fit into [most] any campaign setting. All adventures, at the end of the gaming term, would be put in the "the Post," but the "winner" (posssibly decided by poll vote) would have his adventure featured on the front page, as well as win some sort of prize (to be discussed below).
Create a Monster
Everyone would have to come up with a 100% original monster that could be used in [most] any campaign setting. Again, all monsters would be put in "the Post," and the winner would have his monster shown on the front page. There would be a prize for this as well.
Create a Random Adventure Site
Basically a scaled-down version of the "Create an Adventure" game, one site would be created, along with maps, roaming monsters, ecology, and history.
Best Homebrew Class/Race Game
Anyone could submit their own homebrew class/race to be voted on. All would be put in the "the Post," but the winner would receive a front page article and prize.
For prizes, I'm trying to think of things that aren't going to cost me money (unless you guys want to start paying for this site ;)). Right now, for the "Create a Monster," "Best Homebrew Class/Race" games, the prize could be a [relatively] professionally drawn portrait of said monster/class/race. Maybe I could get one of you guys here that is a little more artistically inclined than I to spend some time to draw up a nice picture, or I also know some artists around here that are looking to help me out.
Now, to Green's #4 favorite, the "Perfect Campaign Cover," for our homebrews, I have an idea. I know a gentleman who has told me he would hand-paint a cover for me as long as I advertise his art gallery, which I have no problem with (since it's fantasy-related art). So, the prize for that could be a very beautifully hand-painted cover as described by the campaign author. So anyway, what do you guys think of these?
I'm in! These contests/prizes sound GREAT!
Quote from: Natural 20I think it's great, but a alot of these are heavily mechanics inclined. If that's what you're looking for, great. but I know I havel little to know experience with building my own mechanics, even if I can move fluff around just fine. Maybe a fiction contest? Just my thoughts...
I'd hardly say that they're mechanics oriented at all. A good race, adventure or whatever is a fusion of fluff and crunch. You can easily run an adventure or make a race that has cruddy mechanics and still have a great race, but without fluff you're best audience will be powergamers.
Crit, I was just throwing out ideas, there are many, many other options potentially available, including fiction contests and such. But I think, if you're a good fiction writer, then you may surprise yourself with the kinds of fantasy-related things you can come up with.
Quote from: Natural 20Maybe a fiction contest? Just my thoughts...
Huzzah for fiction! And maybe an adventure site description contest. (Or replace "adventure site" with one or more of the following: monster, NPC, spell-effect, something similar.)
For something a little less like a contest and a little more like a game, how about a fantasy-setting-based game of play-by-post Diplomacy? (Not the skill Diplomacy; the Risk-like game where every player is assigned a nation, and military resources to devote to ever-shifting alliances based upon the ultimate goal of world domination.) If nothing else, its a fun way to take an existing campaign world and warp it into something new by simulating a global war.
Quote from: Xathan, Last Of The FallenHowever, of all the websites on the top 100 list, we have the lowest number of views, and I think (unless I missed one) are the only site with more votes than views... (BTW, as a side not, I think everyone should click the link to get back after voting. Just to make sure we don't fall behind in the view:vote ratio.)
Good thinking Meeps. Just keep in mind, everyone, don't vote for the site more than once in a 24-hour period, else they'll ban you from voting and/or delete the site from the registry.
O_O Wow, I sometime forget whether I've voted on any one day. Thanks for the warning. D:
This is definantly a good idea. If roughly half are mechanics-based and roughly half are flavor-based, it would challenge people to expand what they do.
Also, I would suggest having a contest for the Hosting section. An incentive there would definantly get more people to use it.
I would like to request that the the first contest be among the races. Most people seem to include some unique race or another in their campiagn, but it usually does not recieve that much attention on its own. It is always a good thing to re-examine your own work, and the best way for this to happen is through others' criticisms.
My 2 cents...
As far as the Post section is concerned, I once wrote my own article on alignment (yeah, who hasn't?). In it I tried to tie the law-chaos axis to modern day politics as a way to explain their meaning (that was after I had had a few discussions with players what law and chaos really mean). I'm not sure I can fully support the content anymore, but some people might be interested in it. It didn't get posted in Regdar's, presumably because politics were involved. Because of this, I'll at least wait for some admin support before I post. Anyone interested?
As I suggested earlier, the ideas for removing the effect of alignment on your game (specifically, Epic_Meepo's astrological alignment, Vaalingrade's system and my own) could also be combined in a good article IMO.
Túrin
EDIT: And numerous people have created crunch on this website that should be added to the Post.
Turin, politics matter nil to me. Most likely, you won't be able to say anything at all that would offend me more than the fact that we have a 12-year-old autistic frat boy as the president of our country ;) I take that back... that's an insult to the 12-year-old autistic frat boys of the world. Needless to say, I know how to draw the line between fantasy ("We're going to war to stop the insane dictator with WMD's") and reality ("They've got our OIL!"), and will post the article once you have it ready. And yes, I did purposefully throw those in.... so maybe I'm not perfect at separating. Sue me. :)
So, new thought. We should have a thread where people can post what they want to be reviewed, and people who are bored can take requests or whatnot. Part of the problem with reviews is settings can get huge - asking specific questions might help focus that better. Problem is, I don't know where to put such a thread: thoughts?
Xathan, you want me to put my alternate mana system in the Post instead of the Hosting? Sure, I'll get started on it; publicise it.
I just need the assistance to make it OGL compliant.
I'm no legal expert...not sure how that works. I believe Meepo knows - sorry Meepo if I'm wrong. :)
I've had some experience publishing under the OGL, but I'm not entirely sure what "assistance to make [something] OGL compliant" would entail, exactly. What kind of assistance are we talking about here?
If I'm putting a bunch of OGL material, namely my mana system which includes rewritten material from the SRD, what do I have to put on the site to comply with the open game license?
A copy (http://wizards.com/d20/files/OGLv1.0a.rtf) of the Open Gaming Licence.
Done.
-Elven Doritos
AFAIK, you should also modify section 15 to include a copyright: you. i am not sure what the ramifications are of neglecting this.
Also, if you include OGL from sources other than the srd, you have to cite their copyright in section 15.
actually... the license eldo linked lacks a copyright cite-whatever from the srd itself. that may be needed as well.
some examples:
http://www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/ogl.html
http://www.andycollins.net/OGL.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/ogl.htm
You can see the d20 cites copyright from every section of the srd it uses, every other ogl work it uses, and adds its own copyright.
You also need to clearly indicate what in your stuff is Open Content, as opposed to PI. (probably everything, in this case.) Look in some books you own for examples as well, maybe.
Brainface, could you IM me (JAGXeviat) and help me out a bit more? The only material I've used is from the SRD (I'm going to add in the Deities and Demigods spells since they're in the SRD as well), and none of what I post in this specific case is product identity.
I'd like to make this official, as it will be my first true publication (even though its online only), and I'd like it to not get our site in trouble. Heck, I'd love it if it helped inflate our traffic.
(Insert "I'm-not-a-legal-expert" disclaimer here.)
Brainface hit all the main points. In particular, note the part about adding your own copyright to the Copyright Notice section. When adding your own copyright, you need to give the copyright holder's name. Make sure to give your full, legal name, not just your screen name. It's easy to forget that sometimes when your posting online.
Alright; should I just have an OGL notice page, perhaps linked at the bottom of every page?
(Insert "I'm-not-a-legal-expert" disclaimer here.)
That should do it, as far as posting the OGL and the updated Copyright Notice are concerned. You just need one full copy per site (or part of site whose content you control), plus links there from each of your pages.
And it doesn't hurt to include something like "All text on this page is Open Game Content subject to the terms of the Open Gaming Liscence," or some such, right by the link to the OGL. That way you can demonstrate that, yes, you have clearly labelled all Open Game Content. (And that's better labelling than some of Monte Cook's books, by the way.)
EDIT: Dag-nammit! What a stupid post to end up being the first post on a new page!