Ok, I am still very much in the early stages of this, and I guess it's not that original, but I am toying with the idea of a Victorian Steampunk setting with elements of 17th Century Ceremonial Magic and Alchemy. For now we'll use London (or at least a fantasy interpretation of London) as the basis for the setting.
1. Crime and Scotland Yard
From theft to prostitution to gruesome serial killings, the Police are up to their necks. Mystery abounds and fills the city like the thick London fog. Most often the explanation is simple: a crime of passion, greed, revenge; but now and then something comes up that defies explanation. Now and then something comes up that would seem to be the work of something . . . supernatural. How can you enforce the laws of the City on something that does not obey the laws of Nature?
2. Secret Societies
Behind the proper and respectable face of London lies a secret, or many secrets. Secret Societies, performing esoteric and arcane rituals, invoking untold spirits, angels, and demons gather, cloaked in shadows. These men come from London's upper crust: judges, writers, landlords, bankers, lawyers, even members of Parliament. What are the goals of these fraternities? How wide and how deeply do they penetrate the city? How much can be learned about them, and how much do they already know about you?
3. Alchemy
Eccentric fellows lock themselves away with their chemicals, seeking to uncover the mysteries of life. It is said they seek riches, seeking complex formulae to transmute lead to gold. But there is more to the business of Alchemy than monetary gain. There is power and understanding to be gained. But how long can one seek wisdom and power at the expense of society, health, and potentially sanity? How far can you delve into the unknown, and what are the consequences?
4. Steampunk
The train whistle sounds, bringing in tourists and travelers, businessmen and those who simply seek to be lost among the crowd and go unnoticed. The well-to-do lumber off in their Steamers: Horseless carriages whose small steam-engines let out a thick white cloud from the tall pipes in the back. The gray of the overcast sky is broken by the outlines of dirigibles transporting passengers above the hustle and bustle of London's cramped city streets.
Done well this kind of alternate history could be really awesome. What kind of flavor would you be thinking of using for the supernatural? Straightforward gothic (feathered angels, horned demons, Stokeresque vampires, werewolves, etc?)? Lovecraftian pulp? Something more exotic? Is magic an ambiguous/furtive force widely disbelieved in and practiced only in the gaslit confines of a gentleman's laboratory, or do peddlars hawk scrolls in foggy London streets? Is steampunk wholly technological or does it possess arcane elements?
In case you aren't familiar with them Susanna Clarke's Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel, William Gibson's/Bruce Sterling's The Difference Engine, and Neil Gaiman's short sory "A Study in Emereld" in Fragile Things might well be worth a read or at least a wiki. The Iron Kingdoms campaign setting also does a lot of stuff similar to what you're going for. Not the same, mind you, but worth checking out to cull ideas from, perhaps, in case you haven't seen it...
My thoughts were as follows:
1. Magic and Technology are separate. Steampunk is not magical in nature, and at present I do not plan for there to be magic items of any sort available for regular purchase. (There might be a few items of an . . . interesting sort at a curiosity shop, but it's not as if people are running around with flaming swords)
2. Magic is mysterious. All magic is conducted in secrecy, usually in dimly lit rooms, perhaps in gathering halls of an organization, or in the home of a wealthy leader figure. No one "Hawks scrolls on the corner." Again, only a curiosity shop might be able to get away with it.
3. There's definitely plenty of room in this for Stokeresque Vampires and Werewolves, Jekyll and Hyde, and suchlike characters. Granted they wouldn't be all over the place, and their existence would be largely unknown. For the angels and demons, think Mephistopheles in Doctor Faustus. They might not always manifest in physical form however, and their effects could be subtle--easily ignored as coincidence.
ETA: Actually, they probably wouldn't manifest physically at all. They'd be more of a presence than a "creature."
From what you've posted so far it seems magic will have a very occult feel to it, something Lovecraftian but without all the unspeakable madness stuff trampling everything.
Since you reference London I'm going to guess that it is set on Earth, so my next question is how historically accurate is the world? (aside from the whole steam punk thing). Are there actual historical characters to be found, with a twist to make them fit the setting? Certain people I can see would be the alluded Jack the Ripper, Charles Darwin and events of this time such as the Irish Potato Famine, the two Boers Wars and the Crimean War. As well as dealing with India (the British Raj started in this period).
Also, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide was published in this era as well, perhaps based on true events?
Quote from: LlumFrom what you've posted so far it seems magic will have a very occult feel to it, something Lovecraftian but without all the unspeakable madness stuff trampling everything.
Since you reference London I'm going to guess that it is set on Earth, so my next question is how historically accurate is the world? (aside from the whole steam punk thing). Are there actual historical characters to be found, with a twist to make them fit the setting? Certain people I can see would be the alluded Jack the Ripper, Charles Darwin and events of this time such as the Irish Potato Famine, the two Boers Wars and the Crimean War. As well as dealing with India (the British Raj started in this period).
Also, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hide was published in this era as well, perhaps based on true events?
Yes, magic is very occult, although it's funny: when it comes to something being "Lovecraftian," I tend to think of the unspeakable madness stuff trampling everything as the most important part. But if the occult nature is enough to make you consider it Lovecraftian, then Lovecraftian it is!
As for the historical accuracy of it, I'm not sure quite how strict I will be with it yet, but I expect there will be at least allusions to real historical events . . . even if some details are changed. I may leave certain details to specific campaigns. Things like the Potatoe Famine, the Crimean War might serve well as specific campaigns (or in some cases more a backdrop to specific campaigns)
On another note, I'm not totally sure about what system I might use to implement this setting. I must confess I haven't looked much beyond D&D thus far, but some aspects may need to be more freeform. Vancian casting for magic is definitely a no. d20 doesn't seem like the best system for this in general. Something classless I think could be good. . .
While I always found the occult side of things defining for Lovecraft, I guess most people wouldn't see it as such.
For the system, you could go with GURPS, while fairly complicated can handle anything. You could homebrew something (what I would do) but that isn't for everyone. Nether of those options have classes.
4e doesn't have Vancian casting so that's a possibility for something more familiar (albeit only vaguely). Although it still suffers from the class aspect.
For the historical side of things that seems like a good practical view, and a steampunk Crimean War (perhaps support by occult military division) sounds interesting, to me at least.
Quote from: LlumWhile I always found the occult side of things defining for Lovecraft, I guess most people wouldn't see it as such.
For the system, you could go with GURPS, while fairly complicated can handle anything. You could homebrew something (what I would do) but that isn't for everyone. Nether of those options have classes.
4e doesn't have Vancian casting so that's a possibility for something more familiar (albeit only vaguely). Although it still suffers from the class aspect.
For the historical side of things that seems like a good practical view, and a steampunk Crimean War (perhaps support by occult military division) sounds interesting, to me at least.
4e doesn't have Vancian casting, but I don't think it's any better an alternative for capturing the feel Ceremonial Magic. It DOES have rules for rituals as being separate from other powers, but I don't think it's adequate. And classes are still an issue. I've been curious about totally skill-based systems lately, and I might go that way with it.
Now, as far as the Steampunk Crimean War, I really don't see there being an "occult military division." This is not to say that there wouldn't be occult influence over the Steampunk Crimean War, but this would be conducted secretly, under the table even for those benefitting from it. It would be behind the scenes--a summoning circle in an officer's tent, or something to that effect. Or even something conducted from afar.
Your right, I didn't mean to imply that their would be a blatant occult division that operate on the battlefield, my apologies. I thought of it more as a small division looking after occult interests for each side of the military, maybe a handful of people or something.
Dirigible Airships
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3252/3022757959_c3de9df049_o.jpg)
The invention of dirigible airships owes a great deal to a happy accident. James Murdoch, in collaboration with Josiah Pemberton and a few others, performed experiments to test the viability of gas lighting on London's city streets and in homes, businesses, theaters, and all over the city. Receiving for his birthday, a number of helium balloons, Murdoch stumbled across the idea for a dirigible airship. It was not a completely foreign idea: Balloons had been used for flight before. But it was at this moment that the airship we think of today was conceived in the minds of Murdoch and Pemberton. Murdoch, who had worked with Watt on the Steam Engine, envisioned an aircraft propelled through the power of the steam engine and kept aloft by lighter-than-air helium or hydrogen gas. Murdoch's desire to pursue the dirigible aircraft clashed with Pemberton's desire to continue working on gas-lighting. After some argument, the two split, and Murdoch sought Watt's aid in creating a steam powered airship. The above is a blueprint of an early dirigible. A small boat suspended from a massive helium balloon, at the stern is a propeller, powered by a steam engine below deck, with an exhaust chimney behind the wheel. A rudder-sail in the rear controls horizontal movement.
Looks great. Though from a purely mechanical (physics, not crunch) perspective, capturing the smoke/hot air as an extra lift would be a good idea. Also ballast is important, since your burning fuel (lowering the mass) of the ship.
The ballast issue confuses me. I find it difficult to see how ballasts help once you've left the ground. If the point of the ballast is to counterbalance the lift, and from the beginning, when you're running on full fuel, there is enough lift to bring the whole airship (ballasts and all) off the ground, how is it that ballasts help in the least once you're losing fuel weight? I haven't been able to find an explanation of how this works.
As far as capturing the smoke/hot air for extra lift, I can see the value of this, but don't yet know how to go about doing so. I mean, the ideal place to store the air would seem to be a balloon, but it seems that the main balloon would get in the way.
. . . unless perhaps there was a sort of hybrid balloon structure. A pocket of some kind in the body of the main balloon might, perhaps, allow the type on envelope needed to gain lift from the hot air. If hot air were, in fact, an important part of the flight of the Airship, then this could help deal with the ballast issue. If the balloon structure contained an amount of helium insufficient to reach neutral or positive buoyancy, it could depend on hot air to achieve the necessary lift. The fuel would work double-time, as a steam engine powering the propeller and creating the byproduct of lift. As fuel weight decreases, lift increases, but when necessary for landing, hot air could be released from the envelope, thus drastically reducing lift and bringing the Airship to the ground. That . . . might work. Maybe.
I know it's not exactly 17th century, but when it comes to the whole "magic is occult" thing, I get the urge to ask how familiar you are with a certain Mr. Crowley. I'd have a very hard time thinking up a historical figure that would better fit that sort of Faustian-Occult tone.
Speaking of Faustian, I don't think you should give up entirely on the idea of angels and demons having physical manifest. They might just not manifest in the big, flashy, "hi, I'm a demon. Do the horns, pointed tail, cherry-red skin, and goats feet give it away?" manner. Poe's Never Bet the Devil Your Head (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Never_Bet_the_Devil_Your_Head) is a good example of this, and a Victorian example, as well. I would suggest making some sort of allusion to Poe, but he really wasn't that big in his own lifetime; such a character would probably be best worked in as a sort of cameo in a given campaign.
Right, the whole ballast because of the fuel thing is me being bad at sentence structure. I meant to say that their is no ballast at all, which helps when you need to climb rapidly for some reason, (avoiding collision, storm, multiple possible reasons). Sorry for the confusion, my bad, I not only didn't get what I was trying to say across but looked like a tool :P
For the secondary balloon I was thinking something like the main helium balloon has a rigid frame, then their was a wrap around balloon, U shaped or encircling the rigid structure, forming an outer balloon membrane that would be connected to the smokestack.
Also, is that a sail behind the smokestack above the propeller?
[blockquote=SDragon]I know it's not exactly 17th century, but when it comes to the whole "magic is occult" thing, I get the urge to ask how familiar you are with a certain Mr. Crowley. I'd have a very hard time thinking up a historical figure that would better fit that sort of Faustian-Occult tone.
[/blockquote]
Indeed, he fits the tone very well, and while he himself doesn't exactly fit the time period of Ceremonial Magic, the secret societies Crowley associated himself with--The Golden Dawn, A.'.A.'., Ordo Templi Orientis, all derived a great deal from the Ceremonial Magical tradition. In fact you could say that the activities of these secret societies essentially WAS 17th Century Ceremonial Magic (just, you know, not in the 17th Century). So I do intend to borrow from the ideas of Crowley and his contemporaries, even if they wouldn't make appropriate NPCs.
[blockquote=Llum]Right, the whole ballast because of the fuel thing is me being bad at sentence structure. I meant to say that their is no ballast at all, which helps when you need to climb rapidly for some reason, (avoiding collision, storm, multiple possible reasons). Sorry for the confusion, my bad, I not only didn't get what I was trying to say across but looked like a tool :-p
For the secondary balloon I was thinking something like the main helium balloon has a rigid frame, then their was a wrap around balloon, U shaped or encircling the rigid structure, forming an outer balloon membrane that would be connected to the smokestack.
Also, is that a sail behind the smokestack above the propeller?[/blockquote]
Ok. A lot of my ballast confusion comes from the research I've done thus far for the Airships, that seemed to suggest that they should be there, but didn't seem to give a proper explanation of why, or how they worked (except in the case of a Rigid-Frame Hydrogen filled Zeppelin--even though hydrogen was dangerous and they preferred helium--where they simply expelled hydrogen, which doesn't exactly count.) The examples of "ballasts" I came across included atmospheric water condensers and they felt for some reason anyway too high tech to me.
And yes that is a sail, although it's purpose is for steering rather than propulsion.
Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumThe examples of "ballasts" I came across included atmospheric water condensers and they felt for some reason anyway too high tech to me.
True, I had though of something along those lines and it didn't make a lot of sense to me ether. Yet I had another thought, with all the steam being used, where do they get the water from? I'm guessing a recycling system to reuse the water, condensing it back into water.
Now this would potentially have condensing technology, which would come in handy in gathering potable water, since weight is an important factor so bringing tons of drinking water isn't the best solution. I don't know how this could be worked out (maybe resident science geek Nomadic has some ideas) but could be possible.
Steampunk technology isn't that far behind modern technology, mainly it just lacks the electrical and digital components.
Finally I had one last question, would their be steam powered analogue computers?
Quote from: LlumFinally I had one last question, would their be steam powered analogue computers?
No. To be honest I've just never been a fan of steam powered analogue computers. Something about them annoys me. I guess I want advanced technology, but not totally modern technology either. I don't know; I guess I have to figure out where I want this to really be technologically. If I don't push it forward in a significant way from the actual technology of the era, then it doesn't mean anything. But how far do I want to leap forward? It's something I have to think about and come to a decision on. But no computers.
Yes, figuring out where the tech level really is can be definitive...and figuring out where popular tech and where experimental tech are at can be two different things.
( I point to the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen comical books as an excelent way to envision this.)
And in terms of magic, is this the kind of steampunk where the general populace belives heavily in the progress of technology, but views magic as superstition?
Quote from: LordVreegAnd in terms of magic, is this the kind of steampunk where the general populace belives heavily in the progress of technology, but views magic as superstition?
Yes. Superstition, viewed with a mixture of cynicism and fear--The general belief that it's all nonsense, but the seemingly unjustifiable fear of "but what if it's not?" And a deep seated fear of those who observe this "superstition," as much over the morality of such a person than fear of their "powers." Crowley was mentioned above. Think of the kind of reactions he received.
I just thought of something for that airship. You could set up the balloon to be able to split and unfold into a parachute-type thingy, thus allowing you to go down in a very controlled glide. On second thought... it probably wouldn't work.
While it has a 'tech' level beyond what you're describing, I'd recommend China Mieville's books (particularly Perdido Street Station) as a reference. Has the similar gothic/Victorian London feel while still maintaining a distinctly non-Earth historical atmosphere.
I'll second the reference (Mieville is probably my favorite fantasist), though notably in Mieville's book the fantastic is everyday and omnipresent, whereas it seems that this setting is going for a more furtive, invisible, subtly delivered fantastic. And there are lots of steam-powered analogue computers... ambitious steam-powered analogue computers.
Ok, just a little teaser of what is soon to come:
Werewolves, and The Beast within.
And later:
Luddites
Freak Shows, grotesque spectacle
Prostitution, the hidden empire
And much, much more!
Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumOk, just a little teaser of what is soon to come:
Werewolves, and The Beast within.
Run and Hyde, everybody!
Er, I mean...
Now who's to say Hyde isn't his own thing? He would make a great NPC.
True. Especially if the PC's are in the Rue Morgue, but ah, that's been done.
By the way, not to distract your current creative priorities, but what are you doing with firearms? Do we have rifling yet? Repeating shots?
I'll work it out more fully in the future, but so far what I'm thinking is:
Rifling Yes
Repeating Shots--At least the revolver, but I think you may mean more in the sense of machine gun. I haven't decided about machine guns. The Gattling Gun appeared midway through the REAL Victorian period, so it's probably in. I mean, in a steampunk setting, if anything it'd make sense to ramp UP the tech. Don't know about semi-automatic rifles and the like yet.
Semi-auto rifles-- specifically the Winchester and the Spencer-- were in America in the late 19th century, so I don't see why they couldn't be in here. A steampunk Gattler, however, is just plain really cool.
I do have reasons for asking about firearms, by the way, and depending on your cooperation, I might be watching the development of this setting very closely...
Which reminds me, you said you want secret societies. One thing that always got me about secret societies is, since they're secret, you don't know how many are really out there. Great fodder for conspiracy theories. Are the Knights Templar in league with the Freemasons? Are they for, against, or neutral to the NWO? How does the Illuminati fit in? Maybe-- just maybe-- they're all just separate branches of a single organization of unimaginable influence! Anyway, "alternative press" websites might be useful here.
If you're doing secret societies, you might want to look at something along the lines of:
Born in Blood (the Masons are descended from underground Knights Templar who plotted the Great Peasant Revolt of ...)
Holy Blood, Holy Grail, The Messianic Legacy, and The Da Vinci Code (there's a secret society called The Prioiri de Sion who know where and who the potential Merovingian claimants to the throne of France are and they want the Merovingians re-instated because the Merovingian kings of France were descended from Jesus and Mary Magdalene, oh, and this group is a splinter group of The Knights Templar)
Also, concerning the occult and demonic presences, you might want to look at the version of The Goetia edited by Crowley.
World of Darkness might be a good system for this sort of thing, too. I'm thinking of either the Vampire or Mage mechanics. You could customize it however you wanted, adding different types of powers and such, changing the skills, and tossing White Wolf's setting completely, but as a template I think it would probably work well. It's got a simpleness to it that is easily adaptable.
[blockquote=SDragon]Semi-auto rifles-- specifically the Winchester and the Spencer-- were in America in the late 19th century, so I don't see why they couldn't be in here.[/blockquote]
I'm looking up Winchester, Spencer, and Semi-automatic rifles, and thinking they all probably all acceptable. Various versions of the Winchester "Repeating rifles" were available as early as the 1830s, and from there to Semi-automatic seems basically to just be removing the lever from the equation. FULLY AUTOMATIC rifles make me wince. This isn't the Matrix. I don't want PCs running around with Uzis and M-16s.
On Secret Societies
The possibilities are endless. They are, after all SECRET societies, so I can include new ones if I like, even thought there are already so many historical ones to work with.
Freemasons
Knights Templar
Rosicrucians
Theosophists
The Illuminati
The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn
And there are probably many many more. How they interact with one another is as much a mystery as everything else about them.
[blockquote=Acrimone]World of Darkness might be a good system for this sort of thing, too. I'm thinking of either the Vampire or Mage mechanics. You could customize it however you wanted, adding different types of powers and such, changing the skills, and tossing White Wolf's setting completely, but as a template I think it would probably work well. It's got a simpleness to it that is easily adaptable.[/blockquote]
I was looking at game systems, and I thought the World Of Darkness system was one of the more viable options. I'm not sure I like the specifics of Vampire in every case (although they might be useful when it comes to designing Vampires in my setting, if I end up using their core system). I haven't seen the specifics of Mage yet. I also like One Roll Engine, from what I've seen.
Now, back to work on my Werewolves . . .
Quote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI was looking at game systems, and I thought the World Of Darkness system was one of the more viable options. I'm not sure I like the specifics of Vampire in every case (although they might be useful when it comes to designing Vampires in my setting, if I end up using their core system). I haven't seen the specifics of Mage yet. I also like One Roll Engine, from what I've seen.
Now, back to work on my Werewolves . . .
Why not check out the specifics for Werewolf? Interesting fluff, if nothing else. Definitely WoD style, although it might be a bit too Native American for your tastes.
Quote from: Seraphine_Harmonium[blockquote=Acrimone]World of Darkness might be a good system for this sort of thing, too. I'm thinking of either the Vampire or Mage mechanics. You could customize it however you wanted, adding different types of powers and such, changing the skills, and tossing White Wolf's setting completely, but as a template I think it would probably work well. It's got a simpleness to it that is easily adaptable.[/blockquote]
I was looking at game systems, and I thought the World Of Darkness system was one of the more viable options. I'm not sure I like the specifics of Vampire in every case (although they might be useful when it comes to designing Vampires in my setting, if I end up using their core system). I haven't seen the specifics of Mage yet. I also like One Roll Engine, from what I've seen.
Now, back to work on my Werewolves . . .
I will also recomend the World of Darkness. In the old WoD there is a Victorian Vampire setting you may want to read.
Also take a look at any WoD corebook. There are many secret societies with their focus, agenda, routines, ceremonies. You can get some neat ideas from them.
So were are those wolves?
Quote from: Halfling FritosSo were are those wolves?
:rimshot: Yeah. I guess I lied. With 3 projects going on simultaneously now, and drowning in a paper or 3, I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on them. So a bit more of a delay I guess. I expect I'll have some time over the break though.
I hope so. I'm really looking forward toward the development of this setting.
By the way, while looking up GURPS stuff, I managed to come across this (http://codepoet.org/~markw/gurps/). You might find it useful, or at least interesting.
Quote from: Halfling FritosI hope so. I'm really looking forward toward the development of this setting.
By the way, while looking up GURPS stuff, I managed to come across this (http://codepoet.org/~markw/gurps/). You might find it useful, or at least interesting.
Ooh, very exciting! I shall definitely look at that in more detail when I have a bit more time! For now, to re-immerse myself in school-work.
Wait, 17th century? You mean the 1600s? Victorian times was in the late 19th century.
I'm making a Victorian 19th Century setting, but I am incorporating 17th Century Ceremonial Magic. Ceremonial Magic was still used to a certain extent in the Victorian Era by certain secret societies (and is still used today actually, by some with an occult bent). So I am playing up the idea of the secret societies practicing these old ceremonial rituals from the 1600s. It's not really even an anachronism. 17th Century Ceremonial Magic just refers to the time it was developed as a system (by figues like John Dee)
I find anachronism great. It lets you work the eccletic way and if done right the results are fabulous.
Quote from: BlueSilenceI find anachronism great. It lets you work the eccletic way and if done right the results are fabulous.
It's not actually an anachronism, really. I misspoke, and have since corrected the error. It is not an anachronism because Ceremonial Magic never fell completely out of use, and therefore is acceptable as part of a Victorian Setting. I just plan to play it up a bit. Make it a bit more common. It will still be secretive, as it always was, but more people are in on the secret in this "world" than in our world at that time.
Fun Fact: Bram Stoker was a member of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn. Oh what a tangled web we weave . . .
Just a fun way in which Vampire Stories are connected with Magic and Secret Societies. (I almost spelled it Magick, but then I remembered that was a Crowley thing, and he came a bit later)
I remember reading that fact in the Dracula´s edition that I have. Now, looking at it, it says that Crowley comes also from the Golden Dawn.
I got once a Crowley´s book but I dont know if it was the translation or what but I lost interest in reading it. Now I hear the name more often as well as Magick.
Quote from: BlueSilenceI remember reading that fact in the Dracula´s edition that I have. Now, looking at it, it says that Crowley comes also from the Golden Dawn.
I got once a Crowley´s book but I dont know if it was the translation or what but I lost interest in reading it. Now I hear the name more often as well as Magick.
Crowley's Magickal career started with the Golden Dawn, and he quickly became one of the highest ranking members, but after a fallout with Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers, he left the society to establish his own. I've never read a whole book of his, but from the snipets I've come across, his writings seem very sensible, which is surprising considering the reputation he's received over the years.
Quote from: Seraphine_Harmonium(...)his writings seem very sensible, which is surprising considering the reputation he's received over the years.
'Sensible', I perceived it too. Maybe I will read some of it some day.
How are you doing with your work? Any updates? I looking forward to it.
Yes. Though I have stayed off this just due to the sheer volume of stuff I am doing, I like the concept and idea, and SD's link (or 1/2ling Fritos, for now) was sheer joy.
Quote from: BlueSilenceQuote from: Seraphine_Harmonium(...)his writings seem very sensible, which is surprising considering the reputation he's received over the years.
'Sensible', I perceived it too. Maybe I will read some of it some day.
How are you doing with your work? Any updates? I looking forward to it.
The idea of the Werewolves is pretty clear in my head, and to a lesser extent on paper, but it's just in note form. It will be another day or two before it's ready to post.
Quote from: Halfling FritosQuote from: Seraphine_HarmoniumI was looking at game systems, and I thought the World Of Darkness system was one of the more viable options. I'm not sure I like the specifics of Vampire in every case (although they might be useful when it comes to designing Vampires in my setting, if I end up using their core system). I haven't seen the specifics of Mage yet. I also like One Roll Engine, from what I've seen.
Now, back to work on my Werewolves . . .
Why not check out the specifics for Werewolf? Interesting fluff, if nothing else. Definitely WoD style, although it might be a bit too Native American for your tastes.
I did check it out, and ironically their crunch is more appropriate than their fluff, which is (as you suspected), too "Native American" for this particular setting. Good Stuff in general though, and a good deal of the abilities could be kept with different fluffy explanations.
Right, well, that was a case of lack of clarity on my part. What I meant was, you should check out the specifics of the crunch, and that the fluff is interesting, even if it isn't of any use for this setting.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3226/3101535659_eb9618ed2a.jpg)
There are many paths to power; some subtler than others. There is the politician who seeks political power, the general who seeks military might, the explorer or scientist, author or actor who seeks fame. Then there are those who seek power in . . . unconventional ways. London is a curious city. So prim and proper, so sensible, so concerned with overcoming the wickedness in us, in . . .
suppressing it. But all around us we can see filth and strife and bawdiness. Prostitutes litter the streets, a testament to the power that those elicit urges, pleasures, and desires hold. There are those who seek power in what others suppress. There are those who would strike a hard bargain with the darkness, with the primal side of man'"the sinful side, for a slice of that power. But as they seek bestial power, the line between man and Beast becomes blurred, and the definition of 'humanity' comes into question.
Werewolves are the product of a bargain with dark forces: a demonic pact conducted in an esoteric ritual out of the
Key of Solomon, or some such esoteric text. To imbue himself with a great bestial power, a magician may call forth a demon, and take it into his body. The demon grants them power, but at the cost of their control, for the demon, though housed by a human Host, retains autonomy of spirit, resulting in a constant bid for dominance. The magician may give himself over to the Beast, or he may fight or he may fight the demon urges at every turn, but sooner or later the Beast will gain the upper hand. In the City of London, where a façade is the modus operandi, none exemplify it better that the werewolves. There are, after all, many who speak of their 'inner demons,' but few who can mean it literally.
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Calling the Beast:
[ic]Samuel stepped into the Circle. He had been chosen by lottery to be the recipient'"to be the host for the spirit. He was a bit nervous as he still wasn't used to Magick. He had done a few Ceremonies since his induction, but he was by no means a veteran. Still, the order had made it an equal chance, and so he had been chosen. Arthur had instructed him as to what to do. Arthur seemed to know what he was doing, although he admitted that he had never done this particular Ceremonie before. That did little to quiet Samuel's nerves, but he stepped into the center, taking arduous care not to disturb the lines on the ground Arthur had drawn with the chalk. What they were doing now was dangerous work, and it was important that the symbols were all inviolate; their lives may depend on it. As Samuel stepped into the circle, his companions closed the gap where he had stood and began to chant. They spoke in Latin, invoking the demon'"Andras was its name. Arthur was leading, reading out from the Book while the others followed. That was when he saw it: the smoke. Candles burned along the rim of the Circle, but their smoke, when it was visible was white. The smoke Samuel saw had no apparent source, and wafted, thin and black. . .[/ic]
While a lone magician can call a demon and become a werewolf, a demon will more readily respond to the combined energies of a group of like-minded individuals than to the call of a single mage. Calling the Beast involves a lengthy and intricate ritual in which a Circle must be erected on the floor, usually drawn with chalk, but other substances are acceptable, including oils, charcoal, and ink. The important point is that the boundaries of the circle, its demarcations, and contained symbols, glyphs, runes, and sigils are not marred smudged, or otherwise violated during the Ceremonie. A very skilled magician could even draw a circle in the air, so long as they could manage to avoid them all, but to do so would require a great exercise of visualization that is unnecessary to the working of the ritual. Symbols drawn visibly work just as well and are easier to respect. It is important, especially in workings such as this, that the symbols be not disturbed, for a break in the circle and its symbols is a break in the magic that binds the demon. An unbound demon is a dangerous and unchecked force, which can attack the magician, or even attempt possession, which comes with none of the benefits of lycanthropy, and none of the control.
If everything is executed properly, then the demon will appear. There is often no physical sign of the demon, only a presence in the air, or an image in a mirror. If there is a physical form, however, it is nothing but shadows and wisps. As long as the demon is bound it cannot take on a true corporeal form. At this point the magician can communicate with the spirit, state his intent, and make the bargain.
The Sigil: Each demon has a very specific sigil by which they are called and bound. To summon a demon requires explicit knowledge and implementation of its personal sigil. This is very important to making the pact with the Beast, but the knowledge of the demon's sigil has other effects as well:
Excepting the initial transformation, in which the host magician accepts the demon into his body, and thus initiates the change himself, the demon within a circle containing its sigil is bound from causing the host to transform into his Gauru form.*A werewolf in a Death Rage somehow lured into a circle with the demon's sigil will instantly revert to human form.*
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Note: A lot of this is repetition of the Being A Werewolf section from Werewolf: The Forsaken, but bear with me for Setting specific fluff.The Two Worlds:
[ic]'
Why, this is hell, nor am I out of it.
Think'st thou that I, who saw the face of God
And tasted the eternal joys of heaven,
Am not tormented with ten thousand hells
In being deprived of everlasting bliss?''"Mephistopheles in
Doctor Faustus, by Christopher Marlowe[/ic]
As creatures of dual nature, werewolves are equally part of this world and the Spirit world, or, in the case of demons, Hell. Demons on earth traverse the Shadow Realm: a hellish reflection of the material world. The Shadow Realm is the world of spirits, and in it can be seen all manner of spirits that likewise walk the earth: demons, angels, and certain kinds of supernatural creatures. If a werewolf wants to look across the boundary between the worlds to see what is happening on the other side, the player rolls Wits + Em¬pathy + Primal Urge. On a success, the character can see a blurry image of the Shadow Realm for one turn (sacrificing his perception of the material world). In this way werewolves can see spirits who have escaped into the physical world (but not yet taken a host or fetter) even if they remain invisible to normal humans.
If a werewolf wants to physically cross the Veil into the Shadow Realm (or exit it), he must first find a locus. A locus is a wellspring of spiritual energy that erodes the Veil and attracts spirits of all types who feed on the energy that has welled up. Having found one, the character stands in the locus's area of influence (which grows wider the more powerful the locus is), and, erecting a Circle with his demon's Sigil, the player rolls Intelligence + Presence + Primal Urge. When he enters the area of influence of a locus, a werewolf is in¬nately aware of it, though he does not know exactly where the locus is. To find the locus specifically, have the player roll Wits + Investigation + Primal Urge.
Essence: No real change. See Werewolf: The Forsaken.
Shapeshifting and Rage: For their characters to willfully change forms, the players roll Stamina + Survival + Primal Urge. On a successful roll, the character assumes the form the player selected and his traits change as listed on the character sheets. (For the purposes of shapeshifting, always roll the character's unmodified Stamina, regardless of what form he's wearing.) Changing shape takes one full turn, in which the charac¬ter can do nothing else. Should the player choose, though, he can spend one Essence for his character to change instantaneously without a roll.
When the bargain is made and the demon takes its seat in the host, the werewolf gains the ability to augment himself by the essence of the Beast within. Besides the natural human state, he has three forms which he can utilize at will. These forms are granted by the pact itself, and can be freely utilized without risking Humanity. They are the Dalu (a more bestial and muscular humanoid form, in which werewolves practice rituals), Urshul (the savage form of a terrifying dire wolf), and Urhan (the form of a normal wolf). Should a werewolf in any form suffer enough damage to fall unconscious or die, he automatically reverts to his mortal Human form.
There is a fifth form: Gauru: The Beast. It is the form of war, in which they unleash the power of their Rage. A werewolf can willingly assume the war form just as he would assume any other, but doing so is to travel down a dark road, and to place one's own sanity in jeopardy. (SEE: Losing Humanity) Using the Gauru form is different and less stable than the other forms. For instance, the werewolf can take on the war form only once per scene, and he can remain in it for only a number of turns equal to his Stamina + Primal Urge. (Again, use the character's unmodified Stamina to make this determination.) What's more, each turn spent in the Gauru form, the werewolf must roll Resolve + Composure to maintain control. Failure results in a Death Rage in which the demon inside is able to wrestle control away from the host. If the werewolf succeeds at fighting off the Death Rage, when he has exhausted his Gauru form he either switches immediately back to his Human form, or the player must roll or spend Essence to switch to another form. While he is Raging (i.e., in Gauru form), the werewolf can do nothing but attack or move toward an opponent whom he intends to attack, and he cannot use complex weapons such as guns or bows. Nor can he gather the presence of mind to talk. On the plus side, though, he is immune to wound penalties while he is Raging, and his bite and claw attacks inflict lethal damage.
The Death Rage: A werewolf whose Rage is upon him is a fearsome foe who makes his enemies tremble. A werewolf who loses himself to his demon's Death Rage, however, is a danger to not only his enemies but to his allies and even to himself. When the demon wrests control away from the host, the werewolf becomes a mindless killing machine, un¬able to distinguish friend from foe and unable to stop him¬self from ripping and tearing anything he can get his claws and teeth into. A Death Rage can be prevented, but once it has begun it must run its course. To prevent a Death Rage, the werewolf's player rolls Resolve + Composure and hopes for a success. If he fails, the werewolf assumes his Gauru form (without a roll or Essence expenditure; even if the character has taken that form once in that scene already) and attacks anything in reach. The Death Rage ends at the end of the scene, only when everyone around the werewolf is dead or the werewolf himself is dead or incapacitated.
A werewolf is in danger of Death Rage when he suffers aggravated damage, when a wound is marked in one of his last three Health boxes, or when he is hurt or terribly humiliated outside a combat situation. The latter circumstances outside combat rely on Storyteller discretion, but the humiliation ought to be fairly signifi¬cant. Slipping on the ice on a sidewalk and having some pedestrian snicker probably wouldn't threaten a Death Rage, but having a lover cheat on you with your best friend certainly would. The Beast inside is strongest at the Full Moon, and at such a time, a werewolf suffers -2 to their dice pool to resist a Death Rage.
Health and Regeneration: No real change. See Werewolf: The Forsaken.
Sharpened Senses and Tracking:
[ic]
The Beast knelt, lowering its snout to the earth. The London fog had begun to set in already, giving the air and all around a damp smell. It might have confused a lesser predator, but the beast had tasted his blood in that candle-lit room and the bloodlust overtook it. It could still taste the issue of his veins in its mouth, could summon up the smell in its mind despite the fog. Then, sucking up the scent a final time, the beast caught up the path of its prey and bounded off at unnatural speed. Its quarry did not have long.[/ic]
No Real Change. See Werewolf: The Forsaken
Silver: No real change. See Werewolf: The Forsaken
Losing Humanity:
[ic]The cold woke him rudely. Samuel looked about with groggy eyes to see the grimy alleyway and the refuse that made his bed. Clambering to his feet, he braced himself against the brick wall to his left. Where was this place? He stumbled toward the street, strangely unsure of his feet, when he stepped in the puddle and the sharp cold shot up his bare foot and leg. He had no shoes. He had not clothes at all.
What in Bloody Hell happened last night? Blood. He was covered in blood. He began to panic.
Whose blood was this? How did this happen? Where am I and why am I here? He searched his memory of the night before.
The Circle. Men in robes. The Order. The Book. The Sigil. What happened next? He raised a bloody hand to his bloody face. The images had stopped. He only imagined a memory of pain and terror, of screams and cries for help. Something had gone wrong. Something terrible had happened, and he was the cause. He looked once more at his bloodied hands and slender fingers, and they looked to him as claws, talons, knives. It was only a passing fancy, but it aroused a terrible thought.
I killed them. No, it couldn't be. Could it? No, I'm making it all up. It's just a wild fancy. A smell drifted across his memory, a smell of mingled blood and perfume. That perfume'"he knew that smell. It was Arthur's ceremonial oil. The anointing oil.
The blood. The perfume. The Screams. And the thought, the irrational thought that refused to leave his mind.
I killed them. I killed them. I killed them. Tremors fell upon him, and Samuel collapsed on all fours. He was shaking violently and spasmodically. His body twisted and contorted as by some other force besides his own, and he could feel it creeping up his spine'"a thick black presence filling his veins and dominating his rebellious muscles. It burned as it twisted inside him, working its way into his head. Then he heard it speak. It spoke in strange words of a language he did not know, but he knew what it wanted. He knew what it was.
The Circle. The Order. The Book. The Sigil. The Ceremony. In his mind Samuel stepped into the circle.
The incantation. The summoning. He felt again the punch against his chest as it all began.
The pain. Eyes not his own watched from his skull as his skin burst forth a thick-haired hide. His nail blackened; grew thick and long. A voice not his own let out a bestial yowl.
The fear. He could sense their fear. He could see it, and feel it a part of himself. It drove him, it filled him with a strange lusting. They scattered.
The Book. Arthur's book lay inside the circle, fallen amidst the panic, and there lay Arthur just outside the Circle.
The fear. The panic. The desire. Arthur wanted the book, but Arthur wanted to get away. Could it be risked? Arthur crawled away.
The pain. The convulsions. Samuel screamed in agony, and fell to his knees. Arthur could no longer resist, he reached for the book, his hand crossing the boundary of the circle, and Samuel's senses shot learned new acuteness. His eyes locked on Arthur, as Arthur's hand closed on the book. Yelping with terror, Arthur scrambled away, his cloth robes smudging the chalk circle on the floor. The bonds were broken.
The Scream. The Blood. The Pain. Samuel turned from the bleeding Arthur to see a robed man holding a smoking pistol. Filled with rage, Samuel leapt after his attacker, biting into his neck and ripping out his carotid artery. Looking wildly around, Samuel found the room abandoned. A trail of blood marking where Arthur had stumbled away. . .
What have I done? What have we done? The crushing fear, the despair, and the guilt welled up in Samuel as the Beast came over him. He'd done murder, and seemed about to do so again . . .[/ic]
The balance between man and beast is a tenuous one. In constant conflict between man and the demon inside them, a werewolf must be careful if they are to avoid losing their humanity, and giving themselves over to the Beast. A man can only do so much horror before they lose all trace of their humanity and become a true monster. At Humanity 7, where all Werewolves start, sins and misdeeds can cause moral degeneration in the form of lost Humanity. When the character commits such an act, a number of dice are rolled based on the severity of the sin. The worse the sin is, the fewer dice are rolled. If the roll fails, the character loses a point of Humanity (Willpower can't be spent on this roll).
Werewolves with reduced Humanity will justify their sins to themselves, becoming more imbalanced. In the future, it will take a more grievous sin to reduce their humanity further. At Humanity 6, to kill a human while overcome by the Beast can spark such a role, while at Humanity 4 you will forgive yourself killing anything as long as you are legitimately overcome by the beast. At Humanity 2 you can give into the Beast, and kill willfully, as long as you aren't hunting them for food.
Characters who do lose humanity also risk becoming unhinged mentally. If a degeneration roll is failed, immediately roll the character's reduced Humanity as a dice pool. This can be any form of minor but pervasive mental disorder such as depression or a phobia.
Lunacy:No real change. See Werewolf: The Forsaken.
Little old lady got mutilated last night
Werewolves of London again
... I love it, it just sounds so awesome. I can't comment too much on the crunch since I am not familiar with it. However, the fluff was excellent. It really evoked the feelings of loss of control to the possessor.
Well, aside from what I've already told you, I do like the part on becoming a werewolf. It's definitely a change from the norm, and fitting, as well. Is lycanthropy still contagious?
I didn't read much of your being a werewolf, because, well, the WoD stuff kind of made my eyes glaze over a bit. If there's anything in there that's already setting specific, can you point it out for me? Keeping the whole Spirit World connection does seem appropriate, though.
Quote from: Halfling FritosWell, aside from what I've already told you, I do like the part on becoming a werewolf. It's definitely a change from the norm, and fitting, as well. Is lycanthropy still contagious?
I didn't read much of your being a werewolf, because, well, the WoD stuff kind of made my eyes glaze over a bit. If there's anything in there that's already setting specific, can you point it out for me? Keeping the whole Spirit World connection does seem appropriate, though.
A lot of it is just semantics changes. There were a lot of little changes, either in terminology, or wording, with some additions and deletions that suited it to the setting.
This important setting specific differences would be:
[blockquote=Shapeshifting and Rage]What's more, each turn spent in the Gauru form, the werewolf must roll Resolve + Composure to maintain control. Failure results in a Death Rage in which the demon inside is able to wrestle control away from the host.[/blockquote]
and
[blockquote=Death Rage]The Beast inside is strongest at the Full Moon, and at such a time, a werewolf suffers -2 to their dice pool to resist a Death Rage.[/blockquote]
The latter is mostly to tie in the classic "werewolves transform at the full moon" which was not in WoD werewolf. To make the classic idea fit the demonic/conflict interpretation, I chose to have the Moon
affect transformation, rather than cause it.
I have not read anything but the very beginning in this thread and I have not been following it at all. However, seeing that it says "steampunk" in the title, I feel the need to drop in and point people at this (http://www.whereismyeyeball.com/2d/starwars.html) lovely gem I learned of today.
Quote from: Ninja D!I have not read anything but the very beginning in this thread and I have not been following it at all. However, seeing that it says "steampunk" in the title, I feel the need to drop in and point people at this (http://www.whereismyeyeball.com/2d/starwars.html) lovely gem I learned of today.
That is
incredibly cool. Bowler hats and everything. With all due respect, though, the cast seems a bit incomplete...
[ooc]Ok everyone, this post amounts to me first spouting off a bit of actual history, before delving into a buch of possibilities for the development of an alternate timeline for Steampunk'd London around the reign of Queen Victoria. Be prepared, it's rather lengthy, and, as you will see, a lot of it is still in the consideration phase & subject to change.[/ooc]
First Century CE: Lanterns filled with hot air float above China'"a kind of primitive hot air balloon, but this was not applied to human flight until 1783.
875: Abbas Ibn Firnas flies a primitive glider, which while capable of slowing decent, had no way of steering or landing.
1206: Al-Jazari releases the Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices, describing 50 mechanical devices & their construction, including clocks, pumps, suction pipes, automatic doors & gates, hydraulic automata, humanoid robots, and analog computers capable of simple functions.
Late 15th Century: Leonardo Da Vinci draws up plans for an ornithopter'"a flying machine for that replicates the flight pattern of birds'"and a helicopter, among other inventions, but neither of these are tested at a scale to demonstrate human flight.
1777: James Watt releases the Watt Steam Engine, a vast improvement over the Newcomen model, in efficiency, but the Watt engine still operates on low pressure steam, and thus remains in limited utility. Mistrusting the technology, Watt uses his patent to prevent high pressure steam for many years.
1784: William Murdoch designs a 'road locomotive' or 'steam carriage' but his employers Boulton and Watt dissuade him from seeking a patent. Had it been created, it would have been the first automobile. Murdoch also invents Gas Lighting, Pneumatic Tube Messaging, and the Sun & Planet Gear. He is a brilliant innovator & make many improvements to Watt's Steam Engine which Watt claims as his own.
Early 19th Century: Murdoch and a man called Perkins each invent 'steam guns.' Perkins' gun is capable of firing 1000 musket balls per minute at deadly velocity, but is not adopted by the military either out of cost concerns or simple stubbornness.
With all of this happening (or almost happening) in our actual history, it isn't hard to imagine the kinds of things that could exist in an alternate history. What if the principle behind the Kongming Lantern were applied to larger balloons? What if the Chinese had hot air balloons by the 5th Century? Balloons could be used for spotting, & for firing down upon invaders. Perhaps the Mongol invasions take the Knowledge of manned Hot Air Balloons along the Silk Road, into the Middle East & Eastern Europe by 1250? The Umayyad Caliphate ruled Moorish Spain from 781 to 1421 (or something like that). Mongol invasions reaching the Middle East could bring technology to Umayyads & influence such characters as Abbas Ibn Firnas. Would it really be possible for the Chinese to create balloon of that size (to generate that amount of lift) at that time? The models seemed to have gotten by on a candle, but fuel for a large balloon would be heavy. It might not be then that the course of history diverged after all, but let's keep their balloons in mind, and presume that the Mongols did still bring their little balloons to the Middle East (for Signaling).
Perhaps at Ibn Firnas? He did manage to create a flyer of sorts. He was able to make a controlled descent, but crashed because without a rudder he could not steer, and he had no means of landing. Perhaps he could have gone back & fixed his mistakes. He would not have been capable of achieving lift'"humans are too heavy & not strong enough to operate wings that way. That was where Da Vinci came in, bringing in a system of pulleys to make up for this. Perhaps Firnas died before he could conceive of pulleys, but managed to make a flying machine. What would be the use of this device? It would certainly make for a pleasant diversion, but in what way might it significantly impact the course of history? It wouldn't seem to have much military application. It would need to start from very high ground. The pilot could then make use of projectile weapons or possibly grenades (once gunpowder comes onto the scene). But how easy would it be to get atop a high enough position to make a descent? It could presumably be done from a castle wall, but it would be a suicide mission; anyone who flew out from the wall would land behind enemy lines & be captured. Actually, if a number of them left at once, they could seriously harass enemy troops, dropping grenades or shooting arrows until they landed, and then assaulted the enemy forces hand to hand. They could be designed to look like dragons to sow fear in the enemies. Fire spitters? Actually, this could seriously affect the outcome of certain battles.
While Al-Jazari seems quite important, it doesn't seem like his inventions would have a huge effect on the actual course of history. His automata were practical, but their use was largely prescribed'"hand washing, drink pouring, music playing. Perhaps these could have become wider spread than they did, paving the way for a steampunk culture that includes automatons & robots.
Da Vinci? Leonardo designs an ornithopter that allows for lift, & thus actual human flight. Requiring operation of pulleys, etc, by both hands & feet, the pilot is completely occupied with the flying of the craft, & can't actually put himself to other task (like shooting or dropping grenades). Unless they could release the controls & drift for a few moments. Seems like it would still need to start from a height; starting from the ground you'd never get lift. You would, however, be able to flap wings, & thus gain height. This way, you could fly circles over enemy troops, ultimately returning to the castle walls. Also, Da Vinci's helicopter, while shown to work, has problems, such as the entire craft spinning. Perhaps he goes back to redesign a way to isolate the rotation. It's possible that this could require pedaling. Anyway, sets stage for more impressive helicopters.
Regardless of when the first changes in the timeline start occurring, it is still the First Industrial Revolution that launches everything forward at speed. Watt's Steam Engine provides the spark for powering all kinds of vehicles and devices. Murdoch invents Sun & Planet Gear, thus turning the vertical motion of Watt's piston engine into rotational energy. This sees a number of uses: Murdoch applies it to his own Steam Carriage, to Dirigible Airships, & even to Da Vinci's helicopter. Steam power quickly takes over; steam trains connect the farthest reaches of Britain by land, and Zeppelins drift above the sky. In London, small, commuter zeppelins take people across the city. Perhaps the Pulzonov application of Steam Engines in the Steel Mills gives early rise to high-rises and sky-scrapers (but with an appropriately Victorian aesthetic)This way the zeppelins never really have to land & deal with weird Ballast issues & venting gas. Saves resources this way'"more efficient. Large Zeppelins could serve as homes for the rich or as war machines. They would be outfitted with cannons and Gatling guns, & perhaps other odd technologies.
Al-Jazari's automata have long ago created robots for practical use. There is, as of yet, however, no artificial intelligence per se. They can be programmed to perform specific tasks under specific circumstances. The range of tasks they can perform has expanded since Al-Jazari's time, to include mining activities, pulling carriages, opening doors, and even defense. The latter, however, they have not proven to be very good at, due to the lack of intelligence. They can make basic attacks, and may be able to locate 'enemies' but they have no capacity to dodge or parry attacks, nor any ability to adapt to their enemies or vary their attacks. As such, automatons are not often used in such capacities. Complex tasks are still left to humans. Automatons have made their way into the textile industry, however, running looms automatically, able to safely navigate small spaces formerly worked by children. Women and children are now kept out of the factories and at home, where they can be proper Victorian housewives. Sexist attitudes are perpetuated. Women do not work in textile mills, nor can they work in the mines any longer. Women in the mines had been an issue, because women, not wanting to ruin their clothing, would work in the nude, raising a number of problems, including associations with prostitution, and that without clothing, there was no symbol of the difference of men and women to keep the women ideally feminine'"Which was another problem: working in the mines was not womanly work.
With women and children out of work, replaced by hydraulic and steam powered automatons, poverty reaches new levels, women riot for jobs, Luddites storm factories & destroy machines, and workers go on strike. Some women stay home and teach their children, who now also are unemployed, and some even become teachers. This means that in spite of a very high unemployment and poverty rate, education and literacy on the whole improve. Many women, however, without other means to aid their families, are forced into prostitution. Brothels grow in number, as do Asylums and reform houses devoted to saving 'fallen women.'
Unemployment being an issue across the board, a number of interesting phenomena develop, such as street performers of such types as musicians, comedians, clowns, mimes, mountebanks, magicians, freak shows, channelers, mediums, and hypnotists; a surprising number joining convents and monasteries seeking not only salvation, but a roof & food to eat; some are even desperate enough, bored enough, or crazy enough to put themselves in harm's way as adventurers, hunting monsters & seeking out criminals on commission.