The Campaign Builder's Guild

[blockquote=Elven Doritos]...during the earlier days the tenor of the conversations was one that burst with a dynamic energy that I felt kinetically linked to'¦ Although we have more members, the forums have been grinding to a halt for a while now, with activity that is sporadic and outside my scope of interest.[/blockquote]
[blockquote=Ishmayl]Currently, I'm feeling a lot of lag around the site, both in terms of the amount of activity on the site from the fine patrons (you guys), as well as the amount of time I personally am willing to put into the site. It seems that there are a lot of people with ideas on this site, but those people rarely follow through and turn those ideas into realities. [/blockquote]
[blockquote=Rose of Montague]Reminds me of better days here, when setting material was flooding the boards and excitement at every one filed me with every new post.[/blockquote]
Although Elven Doritos made it clear that his reasons for leaving the Guild were his own, his departure seems symptomatic of a feeling I've kind of sensed more generally on the forums.  As you guys know I'm a pretty new member of the boards, though I lurked erratically for awhile before joining (simply because you guys have totally awesome and frequently inspiring ideas).  But despite my novice-hood I also feel like a kind of nostalgia is very much in the air.  Lots of previously used elements of the site are now defunct, such as the Campaign Showcase Archives and the CeBeGia.  Drizztrocks in his inadvertent (but incredibly well-meaning) thread-necromancy has been tapping into exciting threads that have lain fallow for over a year now, and there are others, many of them once thriving, that have dwindled into inaction (contests and review-swapping come to mind).  Some of the elder board members who used to be very active have lapsed into long periods of silence (not that I'm trying to blame them in any way '" I get the feeling they're responding to the wind-down rather than causing it).

I'm curious about why this rather tragic decline seems to be occurring.  Is there some sort of vicious cycle operating '" people don't feel like posting because they don't receive enough feedback, and people don't give enough feedback because of infrequent posting?  Older members of the board, who were around during its inception and first years '" what seemed to sustain the boards' energy at that time?  It can't be purely a 'website'/tech thing because the site was more primitive back then, yet it seems like those first months and years were a kind of golden age.  Was posting just a lot more frequent?  Was there a qualitative difference in the ideas being generated?

I find the atmosphere of melancholy a little strange in conjunction with the fervor of voting for the site.  That the Campaign Builder's Guild ranks 8th at RPG Gateway suggests that it is one of the major world-building sites out there.  I certainly think that the CBG continues to outclass the WOTC campaign-building forums.  So is world-building itself declining, as a hobby and art-form?  This prospect makes me particularly sad, since world-building is what initially drew me to roleplaying in the first place.

Or am I off-track with this?  Do most feel that in fact the boards are better than ever?  If you've become disinterested or morose with the boards, as Elven Doritos clearly had, then what would remedy that ennui?

Nothing can ever replace those first few months, or even the first year, of a brand new forum. There's always new faces, new ideas, new concepts... Everything is new. This sense of 'newness' helps invigorate people to post and talk and be active. As forums grow older that initial wave of 'new' dwindles and a general malaise seeps across the board. Its not entirely uncommon for boards to die after that sense of 'new' is gone.

The CBG, like many forums, goes in and out of phases. These phases tend to last months at a time where there will either be extreme inactivity or extreme activity, the pendulum hardly swings moderately. I've noticed that this site in particular tends to be prone to such pendulum swings. Generally, I've noticed that if the forum has 2 or 3 new/active Homebrews going, the traffic is higher than when there is only 1 or none.

I'd suggest the staff and/or interested members do the following to re-invigorate the masses:

1. Post your own Campaign setting. Even if its just in the concept phase, we'll help you nurture your baby into a healthy adult setting!

2. Don't be stingy with your Review badges. Give them to everyone that posts in your discussion thread. The more links are out there, the more likely it is people will go to your setting.

3. Post at least 1 comment on another person's Campaign Setting per day when ever time you log on. It doesn't have to be anything mind blowing, perhaps just a clarification question. Every post counts!

4. We need to make a New CBGeopardy game. That will help showcase older and newer settings and (hopefully) get people interested in other people's creations.

5. We need to have the 'Setting Showcase of the Week.' Each week we rotate a new setting in and provide a link to it on the front page. The more traffic going into a setting, the more discussions can be had.

6. In general, everyone just needs to post more. Even if its in 'Crush My Wishes' or 'Loose Association.' The more posts and traffic, the better off people will feel (so we can get away from this wreaking nostalgia).

Your prompt reply already makes me feel more optimistic!

I'm still relatively new so perhaps you (or anyone else) could enlighten me about review badges?

Review badges are small graphics that a setting creator can give to another user to place in his signature, in exchange for feecback on the creator's setting.  They usually link back to the setting thread itself, creating a cycle of reviews.  Or at least, that was the original idea.

Personally I try and updated my settings every few days (or daily if I'm able to) even if people don't post in my threads. I love it when people do though, I always want other peoples opinions good or bad on what I've posted.

I try and post in everyone's setting thread (preferably something semi-relevant), I know I've skipped some, or haven't posted in it yet, ether because its intimidating (Steerpike's stuff, Seraphine Harmoniums, or I haven't gotten around to it yet, newer stuff mostly)

As for a review badge, I have one(for Divergence, its in my sig), but I haven't managed to get it to link yet.

For more info Steerpike, its a 22x22 pixel image, that somehow can be a link to the setting of choice.

Quote from: SteerpikeYour prompt reply already makes me feel more optimistic!

I'm still relatively new so perhaps you (or anyone else) could enlighten me about review badges?

Rose pretty much covered all the main points :) Oh, their are some rules about the Review Badges in that they have to be 22x22 (so all the badges look uniform :)

Here's an example of a Review Badge from my old (and dead) setting:

Here's what it looks like in your Sig:    (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/RHO1/coolness-copy.gif) (http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52268.last)  

Here's the code for my Badge:   [url=http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?52268.last] [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v614/RHO1/coolness-copy.gif[/img][/url]

Here's a base template to use for your Review Badge:    [url=YOUR THREAD LINK HERE] [img]YOUR IMAGE LINK HERE[/img][/url]


EDIT: Hey Llum, I noticed your setting badge doesn't have a link attached to it... Here's the code to fix that :)

[url=http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?56255.post] [img]http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/4/47/DivergenceReview.JPG[/img]  [/url]  

Thanks for the instructions!  I'll work on whipping up a Cadaverous Earth review badge...

[blockquote=Llum]...because its intimidating[/blockquote]

Heh is that primarily the "wall o' text" effect, Llum?

Well, I have noticed that I don't post as often as I used to, and that I don't spend as much time here as I used to.  This is rather sad, because I like this forum.  I genuinely loved coming here after spending time on the Wizards boards and finding a community.  That, I think was the most important thing characterizing the boards back then.  I wonder if, ironically, its growth didn't overall do more harm than good.  I mean no offense to any members who weren't around for the beginning, but I wonder if the small group who all answered each other's posts on a regular basis (because there was just no one else around) was part of the charm.  There was a degree of consistency to it.  The guild was small, so you knew everyone.  Since you knew everyone, every post increased that sense of community.  As the number of members grew, it got harder to get to know everyone.  What's more, with all these new members bringing new worlds, and old members posting new worlds, the attention of the guild became divided.  It got harder to keep up with old friends, and harder to really get to know new ones.

I can't say anything for certain, but with so much more going on, perhaps some campaigns got neglected.  Perhaps some guildmembers just didn't get the feedback to continue posting regularly.  Perhaps, with less response from a divided guild (attention wise) there was less incentive to create new material, and campaigns stagnated.

Maybe there's a happier explanation:  Maybe some people actually, through the help of the guild, managed to complete a world or worlds of their's to their satisfaction.  With their world complete, perhaps they have no further need of the guild.  Perhaps their time is spend PLAYING in their world.  They've left the nest to go out and fly, as it were.

But in any case, as each veteran left, it was as if the guild was losing a piece of its soul.  The "Old Guard" was starting to crumble.  Those who were around from the very beginning got more and more disheartened with each loss.  In some cases, the pain came gradually, as members were absent longer and longer, until the realization came that they weren't coming back.  In others, such as ElDo's sudden departure, the pain came with the shock that a friend and comrade would be gone, and it could not be plainer that he would not be coming back.

But regardless of how and why exactly it happened, we have lost a good deal of that community spirit.  There's a degree of hijinks I miss in Raelifin's--"vitriolic diatribe" I believe was the term given to it--on my campaign of Avayevnon.  And of course there are contless other anecdotes.  To go on simply with things that involved ME: the ElDo-Seraph Alliteration War, the Tavern chat that stared with "Scary Aryans" and led to the formation of the Fiendish Iranian Commie-Nazi Zombie Ninja-Pirates with Goatees and Awesome Scars, Smilie wars and the Weirdo Invasion.  They were good times for their playfulness.  We could joke and fight and pretend to fight as a joke.

Now with the new group, things haven't quite been the same.  As has been stated before, it's no one's fault.  We just couldn't quite keep it together.  However, there HAVE been a few new campaigns that have caught my interest--Knife's Edge, for instance.  Some of these might be able to bring new life to the guild.  It won't be the same as it was, but hopefully it can be just as good.

My own lack of activity with the CBG has two parts.  The first is that I seem to be in a creative slump, and can't get enough coherent thoughts together for a campaign setting or even to post something smaller.  The second'"

[braces for people to be very irritated]

'"I haven't found much of interest to me on this site in a while.  The campaign settings aren't to my taste, and there haven't been any topics of interest to me on any of the other forums.  The latter could just be a symptom of the general malaise, but the former isn't something expect to change given that most settings I read about on the internet give a strong impression that people want things very different from what I want.  And when something is different from what I'm looking for I usually don't get any constructive thoughts about it, and rather than say something non-constructive I just keep silent.

Quote from: SteerpikeThanks for the instructions!  I'll work on whipping up a Cadaverous Earth review badge...

[blockquote=Llum]...because its intimidating[/blockquote]

Heh is that primarily the "wall o' text" effect, Llum?

Obviously, I'm not Llum.  However, this would certainly be MY guess as to why. I read a little bit of your setting, and that was, frankly, what kept me from getting further into it.  I HAVE intended to get back to it, but it hasn't happened yet.  Considering the original context of the quoted quote, this was also the reason why Avayvenon wasn't getting more reviews.  I'm guilty of it too and I know it.  I WAS thinking about starting up a new thread called Avayevnon: Remixed, or something.  Taking all of my new ideas that have been brought up in the Discussion thread, but not been fit to place straight in the Campaign thread.  Taking into account these criticisms, it would probably at least make an attempt to break the information up into smaller, more easily digestible segments.  Of course, with my new Steampunk London setting, I'm not sure where I'll want to focus my energy.  Oh yeah, and college.  There's that little distraction too.  Oh well, hopefully we can overcome our flaws and come together a bit more.

Well, this will be my first post in a while.

Ironically, I still come to this site, if not daily, several times per day. I just haven't been posting much. Regardless, I read each of Steerpike's examples from up above and couldn't help but have reached the same conclusion.

Personally, I've expected this to happen ever since the CBG wiki. It really began when people started making comments on setting pages in the wiki rather than using the forums here. The critiques were, arguably, a little more efficient on the wiki, but they lost a lot in substance and personality.

I never had much of a go for my own setting on here. My original setting, Aldreia, was on its way to retirement when  I arrived. Now I have the Tephra project, and we have a seven-person company working on it, so discussing Tephra here doesn't work.  Ultimately, I just haven't had a reason to get too involved with the setting creations here, and most of the old settings I kept up with (which weren't many, admittedly), haven't been around.

I would enjoy seeing the place revised a bit, but I don't know how much I'll be around in the future. I put at least 8 hours a day into Tephra, and that doesn't leave much room for other things. ^_^

[blockquote=Seraphine_Harmonium]However, this would certainly be MY guess as to why. I read a little bit of your setting, and that was, frankly, what kept me from getting further into it. I HAVE intended to get back to it, but it hasn't happened yet. [/blockquote]

Fair enough, Seraphine - I certainly wasn't trying to imply any failure of Llum's part.  The Cadaverous Earth is getting rather large (although the beginning is definitely an overveiw and the posts get more detailed as the thread goes on).  I should probably organize a table of contents.

[blockquote=Jharviss]Personally, I've expected this to happen ever since the CBG wiki. It really began when people started making comments on setting pages in the wiki rather than using the forums here. The critiques were, arguably, a little more efficient on the wiki, but they lost a lot in substance and personality. [/blockquote]

Mmm I can see how that might happen.  Wikis are great on a lot of levels, but they don't lend themselves as well to the kind of critical environment people used to enjoy, perhaps (?).

If I remember correctly, the review badges had to be of a certain size (22x22, I think?), so that those of us who got multiple badges could line them up. They were also completely voluntary, so if you had a setting you didn't think was going anywhere, you didn't have to make a badge for it.

For me, I suspect my loss of vigor might have something to do with the growing member count. When it's just a dozen or so guys posting great ideas and great settings, it seems almost... elite, without pretentious snobbishness. Not only is it easier to jump from setting to setting, the settings leave a more memorable impression-- possibly because it's easier to remember the subtle distinctions of each and every setting when there's less settings to remember.

I don't think the quality of the stuff posted has declined at all. While the older stuff is great, so is some of the newer stuff (Cadaverous Earth, Tough Worlds, etc.). The problem is, with more idea to check out, and the same amount of time each day to check out those ideas, we have to become increasingly picky about which ideas we check out; "Tough Worlds To Live In? That sounds interesting, but what's this? Haveneast has new posts, too? Decisions, decisions..." I think the site-- at least those of us who have been around almost since the beginning-- wasn't prepared for having to be picky. We end up putting all our energy into trying to decide which setting to look at, and by the time we decide, we don't have as much energy to actually check the setting out.

I am far and away a VERY infrequent poster when it comes to my own setting material, and I feel bad because I check these boards daily, and every time, I think "why aren't more people posting more on their settings? or more settings?" but it's total hypocrisy, because I go, and have always gone, for up to months at a time without posting more of my own work.

I either don't feel inspired, or don't have time to write. Maybe it's a perfectionist thing I have - I feel I have to set aside a lot of time and mental space to write creatively, otherwise I won't be pleased with the result.

Because of this I can spend hours agonising over the phrasing of a sentence... Okay, that was an exaggeration, but maybe 10-15 minutes.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, except as a sort of explanation of why I'm not more active in terms of the actual setting-creation aspect of the forum.

EDIT: and in terms of giving people feedback on their work... I dunno but I either feel like all I have to say is "well done" or it would be too much of a struggle to put my feelings in an inoffensive way. There's very little posted these days which I feel I can be constructively critical of without basically telling the person to redesign.

In a way that means quality's going up, because the few absolutely rubbish settings I see are HEAVILY outweighed by the ones where all I can say is "I love it"

As others have said, a good deal of the loss of momentum evident in the CBG's history is due to time and the loss of that "new car smell".  Also, a great deal of that stagnation is a side-effect of the rapid growth we have experienced here.  As the days of the old guard crumble before the new age revolutionaries, the old infrastructure has broken down to the detriment of the community.  I have some suggestions on how to fix this problem, listed below.

- Activity amongst the elite: Back in the days that we all remember fondly, there were many experts available to help the inexperienced users find their footing.  Over time, the brighter bulbs gave way to the new blood that didn't want to improve so much as gather admiration for the newest shiny they had pulled out of a garbage pail of sourcebooks.  Bring some class back into the forum, I know limetom has some real knowledge that can be mined and I'm sure others do as well.  Put together the resources you have and use them if you want to see any real change.

- The installation of daily review groups: Based on the old model of reciprocal review, a daily review group would see everyone in a group, made of 4 or 5 users, comment on any updates in the group, seeing that a small number of people see in-depth support and criticisms on their work.  This idea is taken from the "Daily Sketch Groups" of conceptart.org, a well-esablished forum that uses this model to maintain motivation among aspiring artists.

- Real criticism: The community here has gradually grown more opposed to any feedback that isn't overwhelmingly positive.  I know of quite a few settings that really should be scrapped and rewritten to save any dignity.  What the guild does is new and founded on innovation, but that doesn't mean there can't be any guidelines on making a good setting or improving a concept.  A setting can be judged just like any other piece of literature, and therefore improved.  Quite frankly, the users here deserve more constructive feedback than a "good job" every few weeks.  Put some teeth into your criticisms and maybe we'll see some improvement.

And now, I bid you adieu, comrades.  I can be reached through the e-mail address rose(dot)of(dot)montague(at)gmail(dot)com

It's been a good run,

~ Natural 20, Rose of Montague, Crit

[blockquote=(The Late) Natural 20]- The installation of daily review groups: Based on the old model of reciprocal review, a daily review group would see everyone in a group, made of 4 or 5 users, comment on any updates in the group, seeing that a small number of people see in-depth support and criticisms on their work. This idea is taken from the "Daily Sketch Groups" of conceptart.org, a well-esablished forum that uses this model to maintain motivation among aspiring artists.[/blockquote]

I think this idea could work really well.  What do others think?

Kindling, Knife's Edge is always worth the wait.

Quote from: Natural 20And now, I bid you adieu, comrades.  I can be reached through the e-mail address rose(dot)of(dot)montague(at)gmail(dot)com

It's been a good run,

~ Natural 20, Rose of Montague, Crit

Are you leaving too?!

Quote from: SteerpikeThanks for the instructions!  I'll work on whipping up a Cadaverous Earth review badge...

[blockquote=Llum]...because its intimidating[/blockquote]

Heh is that primarily the "wall o' text" effect, Llum?

Actually not I'm afraid of the "wall o' text", I like it. The more to read the better. The main thing that intimidates me is that your setting is so well done in my opinion. I don't find I have anything meaningful to say, so I just kind of keep quiet.

To Seraphine_Harmonium

The main reason I haven't posted in your Avayevnon thread is that it has something like 5 pages of comments, and the way I am is I couldn't post in it until I've read every post (its just the way i am). I'm sure I'll get to it eventually, but I I haven't put aside a time to do it yet, so my apologize.

Quote from: http://www.thecbg.org/e107_plugins/forum/forum_viewtopic.php?56255.post(http://www.thecbg.org/wiki/images/4/47/DivergenceReview.JPG)  [/url]  [/code]

"Tough Worlds To Live In? That sounds interesting
[/quote]

Thank you very much, I tried to make the title as interesting sounding as possible (its an ongoing experiment to see what a good way to entice people to post in my threads)

Quote from: Natural 20- Real criticism: The community here has gradually grown more opposed to any feedback that isn't overwhelmingly positive.  I know of quite a few settings that really should be scrapped and rewritten to save any dignity.  What the guild does is new and founded on innovation, but that doesn't mean there can't be any guidelines on making a good setting or improving a concept.  A setting can be judged just like any other piece of literature, and therefore improved.  Quite frankly, the users here deserve more constructive feedback than a "good job" every few weeks.  Put some teeth into your criticisms and maybe we'll see some improvement.

In echo of my previous statement, I support this whole heartedly, be brutal if you feel the need to be about what I've posted. I would appreciate it.

Quote from: Steerpike[blockquote=(The Late) Natural 20]- The installation of daily review groups: Based on the old model of reciprocal review, a daily review group would see everyone in a group, made of 4 or 5 users, comment on any updates in the group, seeing that a small number of people see in-depth support and criticisms on their work. This idea is taken from the "Daily Sketch Groups" of conceptart.org, a well-esablished forum that uses this model to maintain motivation among aspiring artists.[/blockquote]

I think this idea could work really well.  What do others think?

Kindling, Knife's Edge is always worth the wait.

Review Swapping--granted, not exactly what was suggested here--had at least a degree of success in the past.  The issue (which is always going to be an issue) is getting people to actually follow through and swap reviews.  In any case, there's a thread for Review Swapping; a thread that may be in need of a little necromancy . . .

Another issue of getting people to do review swapping is what does a person do if they can't think of anything meaningful to say, negative or positive?

I, too, visit this site on a regular basis. However, I stopped posting setting information for two reasons:

1) I didn't want to start NEW settings and watch them crumble into inactivity after eight posts because I couldn't think up new ideas for them and had a different setting already in my head (remember the days when I was producing a new setting every few weeks?)

2) I felt I'd finished (or semi-finished) Wonders on the Wiki.

3) I find finding things to comment on in most peoples' settings extremely difficult. I used to look them over and say 'Very good! Would love to hear more on...' but then the community started to complain about such 'useless' feedback, so I stopped. I still flick through settings, but unless I can find some criticism or a point I'm not clear on, I stay silent.

4) I had less free time to devote to working on the guild.

5) I found my settings got very few reviews, especially after they'd stopped being new settings.

6) Some of that cameraderie has gone. Like Seraphine, I remember the 'good old days' when you could recognise any member's login name on sight and had a reasonably good idea of who they were. I don't know whether maybe it's because I haven't bothered to get to know newer members, or what, but I don't seem to know most of the people around here anymore.

And now everyone else seems to be leaving, or hardly ever around. Cymro, ElDo, Luminous Crayon, Crit, Darkxarth, Silvercat, Kindling - all members I hardly or never see online. There are numerous others, too. I don't know - I suppose I've turned into one of those old people who sit on benches and moan about the good old days and how kids these days don't know they're born and other similar rhetoric. I should probably make more of an effort to be around, but studying and work takes up a lot of my time.

To quote Luminous Crayon's very helpful "Art of Criticism" stickied in the Homebrew thread, which might have been forgotten:

[blockquote=Luminous Crayon]Part 1: Dishing It Out

It doesn't matter what you say if you don't get people to listen. Being antagonistic in your communication will alienate your intended audience, so that even if your ideas are absolutely wonderful, your readership will be less likely to take them to heart. I am of the opinion that no matter what you want to say about another's work, there is a way to say it tactfully and respectfully (and therefore, usefully.)

Start With Something Good
This might be the one thing I'll say in this thread that I think is most important, even though it may seem a bit trivial. But whenever you give anyone feedback, begin by pointing out something they've done well. Starting with negative feedback puts your audience on the defensive and makes them less receptive to the remainder of your ideas. So even if 90% of your review is going to consist of things that need improvement, the first thing you mention ought to be something from the other 10%-- point out one of the things you think was really on-target.

But It Doesn't All Have to Be Good
Many people walk on eggshells when they give feedback, because they are trying very hard to avoid offending anybody. This behavior is generally counterproductive, since negative feedback (that is, pointing out flaws that need to be corrected) is a very valuable tool. Imagine if I were to give violin lessons without ever telling my student when a note is out of tune. I might think I am sparing the student's ego, but in reality, I'm just preventing the student from improving her intonation, by not giving her the negative feedback that would help her polish her skills.

Obviously, there is a right way and a wrong way to do this. Waltzing into a thread to say, "Your work is terrible! Absolute rubbish!" will do nobody any good. It is not hard to give negative feedback without starting fights, however, if you are careful how you say things. (Personally, I tend to delete and rewrite large chunks of reviews-- sometimes three or four times-- when I think what I am saying has the potential to be taken harshly.) But I find that when I receive reviews, the most useful comments are the ones that point out the flaws in my work so I can fix them. So please, don't be shy about doing so-- just do it gently.

Be Precise
The more detail you can give in your review, the more useful it will be to the setting's author. Let the setting's author know exactly what you are talking about when you make your comments. (This is why my reviews of others' work are generally full of quotes of the original material. There are plenty of other ways to to it, of course.)

Here are some sample responses to an imaginary setting, all describing the same thing, but ranging in order from least precise and least useful to most precise and most useful.
'¦
Hey, I really like your race information.
'¦
Hey, I really like your version of elves.
'¦
Hey, I really like the amount of detail you put into elven customs and traditions.
'¦
Hey, I really like the whole idea of elven shazam tradition, and the way it affected the outcome of the War of the Three Tribes. In particular, I like the way your work on customs and traditions seems to be interwoven into history and global politics (see also: the lizard armies' behavior at the Council of Middlemarch), because it makes it feel very believable and real.


Embrace the Power of Questions
Especially because the work on these boards tends to be complex works-in-progress, a few well-crafted questions can be very effective. Questions serve many purposes in a review, and are probably the most efficient way to deliver a lot of impact in a very short comment. When you ask a question in a review, you are doing all of the following at once: 1.) pointing out something that may be insufficiently explained, 2.) encouraging the setting author to provide more detail on that subject, 3.) encouraging the setting author to consider some aspect of their work from an outside point of view, and 4.) indicating an are of the work that you find personally interesting.

Questions open up discussion in ways that mere statements rarely do, and because of that, they are particularly useful for keeping a setting talked about. Personally, if I am going to get a one-sentence response to some of my work, I much prefer a good question to a "Hey, good job!", because the question allows me to answer it, while the compliment just gives me an opportunity to say, "Thanks, glad you liked it."

Recognize Relativity
Music theorist David Lewin remarked that when writing about a piece of music, deciding between "I like it" and "I don't like it" is not as valuable or as useful as deciding between "This engages me (whether I like it or not)" and "This bores me." I'm inclined to agree with him. We all have certain pet peeves about this hobby, and some people are simply never going to like a high-magic world, or a steampunk setting, or a world with dwarves in it, or whatever. However, it's valuable to keep in mind that these are all opinions, and even an element you severely dislike can be very well implemented.

Again, there are useful ways and not-so-useful ways to comment about this. It is probably a good idea to avoid comments like "I stopped reading your setting as soon as I found out it has dwarves in it!" or "I suggest you get rid of all your dwarves," because the former is pretty pointlessly rude, and the latter is in direct contradiction to the author's apparent vision of the setting (and therefore, not very useful.) If you must discuss your rabid loathing of dwarves in somebody's setting thread, consider perhaps "Why did you choose to write dwarves the way you did?", which will hopefully open up a detailed and productive discussion about whether dwarves are strictly necessary, and how their presence in a setting could be fine-tuned and improved.

The two big pieces of advice on this subject are as follows: 1.) DON'T use someone else's thread to go on a crusade against some idea, and 2.) DON'T avoid reading somebody's setting just because it contains things that provoke a negative reaction in you. I won't name any names, but there are quite a few settings on this site that at first glance, I thought I'd dislike, but after reading a little more, I really cherish.

Take Your Time
Some of the work here is long and detailed, and we are only human. You do not have to read the entirety of Jim-Bob's Massive Campaign Compendium (all 500 mb of it) in one sitting. We are not marathon athletes here. We don't need to make every review an endurance battle.

If what you are reading is long, break it up. Do your review in short segments, or spend a week reading a setting slowly, then review it at the end. Consider a focused review on one aspect of a setting, and leave the rest for later (or if you prefer, for someone else. A limited review is better than no review at all.) The worst strategy is to be so determined to finish this all right now that your eyes glaze over, and you're getting only a handful of words per paragraph. "Read" a setting that way, and you'll miss quite a bit. Much better to take a break and come back the next day with a fresh mind.

Get Help
One of the neat things about this community is the ease with which we can contact each other. If a setting confounds you, you can always PM the author to ask questions, or to ask about a good place to begin. Many setting writers get asked about what particular things they want reviewed, and I've never ever heard a single one of them complain about it.[/blockquote]

On the subject of thinking of things to say, I suppose for me its a matter of asking questions of myself.  Do I like/not like the setting?  Does it bore me?  Does it interest me?  Does it do anything new, and how?  Does it twist anything old?  Does it suffer stylistically, grammatically, or structurally?  Are there major gaps of logic or plotholes?  Is there missing information?  Does a particular race, class, city, state, monster, spell, or whatever interest me, or was it done well, or poorly, or could it be done differently?  Is something unclear?  Is something broken?  Is an idea not fully fleshed?  Do all of the elements work together,or are there incongruities?  Are there comparisons to be made?  Suggestions of material to look at?  Concrete ideas?  Allusions that catch my eye?

How, though, do you get help understanding an element that everyone else seems to take for granted?  I've started several threads in the past for just that purpose, and I don't think it's always possible to reach that goal.

Quote from: Wensleydale...I remember the 'good old days' when you could recognise any member's login name on sight and had a reasonably good idea of who they were.

I remember those days, too. Even when some of us decided to change our names once or twice every hour or so-- and I'm not just talking about any one member, since we all did that, usually all at the same time-- you could still reorient yourself pretty quickly.

QuoteI don't know whether maybe it's because I haven't bothered to get to know newer members, or what, but I don't seem to know most of the people around here anymore.

I think this is sadly ironic, coming from you...

[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]Things that turn me off: Anything that implies that life is harsh/brutal/cruel/a struggle/cannot be won/(I could go on). As soon as I read about large wars (i.e. wars that cover a large area or at least the main-focus area) that are happening or are about to, horrible demons/abberrations running amok, any emphasis on survival, and whatever else would fall under the previous sentence. Essentially if I could read about of version of it in a real-world newspaper I see no reason to need to encounter it again in a significant way in my fiction. Note: This also includes pretty much anything that falls under the word "intrigue".[/blockquote]

I assume you mean stuff like this, Silvercat?  I can see your conundrum.  While I might just counter with Luminous Crayon's assertion that just because you don't find an aspect to your taste in particular doesn't mean you can't give feedback on its execution, I'll perhaps go out on a limb and provide some of my reasoning for while I like some of the above, since much of it describes the Cadaverous Earth and my own taste...

I don't think that demons/abberations running amok and real-world newspaper stories have much in common, first of all.  Personally, I find the grotesque and the dystopian very compelling and even beautiful.  The violence in my campaign (and similar "dark" worlds) is quite distinct from real-world violence because, quite simply, it isn't real-world violence - it's aesthetic, it's there as part of an art.  It's the reason someone like Brom or Giger's art isn't "ugly" but beautiful, despite its grotesquerie - because it's fantastic, unreal, aesthetic; its why H.P. Lovecraft or China Mieville aren't depressing, despite being heavily, heavily invested in grotesquerie and horror  I personally don't find ruins and undead and demons depressing, I find them fascinating in their darkness and excess.  Evil is fun!  Sure points of light are important, but dystopian futures give such a lovely sense of degradation and apocalyptic devastation taht I find them irresistable: I don't get to live in those dystopian futures (nor would I want to!) but roleplaying in them is a completely different matter (hence also wy games like, say, Diablo or Half-Life 2 or Fallout are fun).

That said I can, however, acknolwedge and understand that the horrific, the demonic, or the grotesque isn't everyone's cup of tea, just as hobbitses, banality, dwarves, and pixies aren't to my taste.  So if it's difficult to overcome an "aversion to darkness," then I suppose its best to stick to settings without the survival/intrigue/demonic elements, or at least to ignore the dark qualities while giving feedback in favor of stylistic/structural/logical criticisms.

Well just to pop in for a minute I will say that I feel partly to blame about the lack of activity. I am currently wrestling with college and so the boards dropped down a notch on the importance list. :/

Quote from: Dwarven PringlesWell just to pop in for a minute I will say that I feel partly to blame about the lack of activity. I am currently wrestling with college and so the boards dropped down a notch on the importance list. :/

I have to agree with this.  I joined at the beginning of the summer, put up my campaign setting, kept going through the summer...and then let everything die when college hit.  I really wish I could contribute more, but between more work at college and the outstanding obligations I have on other forums, I haven't really found the time to organize my thoughts and post something worthwhile; usually I look through the forums a few minutes at a time between classes, and that's not as much time in one chunk as I'd like to have.

Aside from that, it was mentioned above that some people might have started playing in their worlds and don't need the CBG anymore.  Well, I do feel like I still need it, but I'm also going to be running my setting soon, and that's another reason I haven't posted in a while--I wanted to have the setting stay fairly static for a while until characters, background, and plot had been established.  If all goes well, though, I'll have plenty of material to add afterward.

Lately I've hit something of a creative slump, and been working on GURPs krunch to boot. I've always recognized my feed back has been sporadic and unpredictable/somewhat random - way to many great settings out there, far too little time. Sadly, I also have far too many interests to indulge adequately, so often my responses here arise in result of someone posting a question which happens to touch on one of those interests tangentially - helps me decide what to focus on today. CBG (and the wiki) remain constant open browser tabs tho and I hardly expect to disappear in any relevant timeframe - got far too much setting material perculating on the back burners. . .

So I decided to write some long-winded crap you all might wanna read.  Or not.  Whatever.

I am very sad to see old friends go.  At the same time, I am also glad to see them move forward with their own lives.  I know that in the past year and a half, though I haven't talked about it much, my life has completely changed directions.  I went from a very short term plan that, if you had asked me about three years ago, I would have thought was great, to a very long term plan that I feel much more confident about.

Like many of my old friends, I too have slowed down of late in my creation efforts.  I too haven't played a game either offline or online in over a year.  My interests have also changed over the years: I went from very overtly Tolkien-influenced setting design in my first setting on the WoTC boards Sûl, to what I consider much more a setting of my own kind of fantasy, drawn together from lots of different, and sometimes unexpected, influences (Celtic and Japanese mythology?  Meh.  Evolutionary psychology?  What.)  This is just how life is.  I have just enough free time now to write my own setting on top of all the other stuff I do.  If a player never sees my work?  So be it.  I'll call it 'art.'

For the past two years or so, I have always felt a little apart from the CBG.  However, this has nothing to do with anyone on the site or anything about the site.  In that time, I have moved from Maryland to Hawaii.  Though you might not think it, the difference in timezones means I'm just posting as everyone else is going to bed.

God... sometimes I have to remind myself that we've been at this for years now.  Years.  Plural.  I remember when this was just a crazy idea that I saw some dude named 'Xeviat-DM' had on the Wizards of the Coast forums.  And I thought it was a great idea.  And I even put 'CBG Member #6' in my signature.  And then we started our own website.  And then we moved to another site.  And then we got another website with that awful Dreamhost hosting service.  And then we moved here.  (Did I miss anything?)  I remember having an internet argument with CYMRO right before he left.  Looking back on it, I blame me for being a stupid ass.  If he was still here, I'd apologize.

Over those years, we've grown.  I've seen some amazing authors put things down on paper that makes me wish I could write even a pale imitation of what they do.  And recently, I've seen some of them leave.  I have also seen a trickle of new members grow, somewhat recently, into a small stream.  And everyone has had, and still has great ideas.

In the past few days, I actually went back with the 'My Posts' link, and went through the 80+ pages of posts I've made and looked up some old stuff.  Some of it made me wonder what I was thinking when I wrote that.  I might have gone back and edited some of it (granted, if you wanted to embarrass me, I probably missed a lot.)  Some of it made me proud of me.  In all, I got a good laugh out of it, and found that I had changed as a person in these short years since the CBG started.  Also, I realized how filtered of a view one can present to others through the internet.  If one wanted to learn about me from some of this old stuff, they'd have some pretty out of date ideas about me.  I don't remember writing some of the stuff that I wrote, and wished now that I hadn't wrote some of it.

And I remember fun in almost everything I've done with the CBG.  Has the fun ever left the CBG?  Has the CBG slowed down like ElDo and the others claim?  I really don't think so.  I think it has changed a lot, the biggest change being the fact that many of the original people left and the very close knit community we were all used to changed into a bit of a looser grouping of people interested in the same kinds of things.  Is this a bad thing?  I don't think so.  We're still here.  And almost everybody is still contributing something.  Even if it's just little old me chiming in with a joke at Ishmayl's expense when I feel like being silly (Psst... I always feel like being silly... Don't tell Ishy...)

I am proud of you, CBG.  [Insert motivational phrase here.]

I think that the CBG is still going strong.  Maybe not perfectly, sure, but strong nonetheless.  And even if things slow down, what of it?  As long as things keep going in some way, that's something.  Right?  I was saddened to see ElDo go and now apparently Crit but communities grow and change.  We may not be big and active like EnWorld or anything but for what it is worth, the fewer posts that we see here probably have better content than all of them there.

I'm here and don't plan on leaving.

Quote from: Ninja D!I think that the CBG is still going strong.  Maybe not perfectly, sure, but strong nonetheless.  And even if things slow down, what of it?  As long as things keep going in some way, that's something.  Right?  I was saddened to see ElDo go and now apparently Crit but communities grow and change.  We may not be big and active like EnWorld or anything but for what it is worth, the fewer posts that we see here probably have better content than all of them there.

I'm here and don't plan on leaving.

Well said. I agree wholeheartedly.

Quote from: Steerpike'¦'¦it's aesthetic, it's there as part of an art.

Well this definitely would explain it: I find that in art there are just going to be some things which are untranslatable.

Quote from: Steerpike'¦'¦'¦at least to ignore the dark qualities while giving feedback in favor of stylistic/structural/logical criticisms.

Unfortunately it's not that easy: the dark qualities are still there.  I have a problem handling dark stuff: I'm very good at thinking depressing thoughts but not so good at thinking uplifting thoughts.  Therefore the dark stuff just sucks me down and it takes me a while to crawl back.  So I try not to get too much into it and prefer the heroic and silly.

As a final note I don't hate the grotesque, I just hate seeing it be feared or portrayed as bad in some way.

What a bad time for my bi-annual hard-drive frying.  I missed a lot.  I'm posting at work again, so this will not be what I wnat it to be.

Steerpike, thanks for grabbing this and running with it.  At some level, I think we are airing our grief in a healthy fashion, as well as moving onward.

I agree with some things that have been said lately and disagree with others.  I miss many people (especially LC) who I used to converse more with on a regular basis.  But I came to this particular intellectual consotrium understanding the limitations and priorities inherent.  Kids, life, work, college, and other issues come first.  And during busier periods of life, I won't be around as much, nor will others.  I don't see what is difficult about that.

And people change.  At a much more extreme level, people who intended to spend their whole life together get divorced, and so the idea of people coming and going is not viewed as an earth-shattering event by myself, but more of the natural order of things.

I'll miss the people who are leaving, but such is life.  I'm 42, and I understand the constructionist/deconstructionist cycle.  The CBG is for people who are building worlds, for people who want feedback.  It is also, at a higher level, for people who want to share and learn about what they and their peers have created, a private art gallery for artists who bring in their works in progress, and gain inspiration from each other.  And such a nest of creativity can actually be painful in a self-reflective fashion when one no longer feels the creative urge they once did; the melencholy punch in the stomach reminscent of seeing an old love out on a date with someone else.

I will also be less vague and more exact for a moment.  I miss what older members brought to the table.  But I do not believe the newer members are a step down in any way.  I actually enjoy Steerpike's work as much as anyone's, and consider LLum, Snargash, Nomadic, and many other newer members at least as creative as anyone in the past.  [note] and if you were not included, it is due to my chronilogical brevity, not a lack of love. [/note]Perhaps there are cycles where the esprit de corp needs to be refertilized, but this browdeum-beating over the natural comings and goings is overdone.  

Quote from: Halfling Fritos

QuoteI don't know whether maybe it's because I haven't bothered to get to know newer members, or what, but I don't seem to know most of the people around here anymore.

... why?

Quote from: Wensleydale

Quote from: Halfling Fritos

QuoteI don't know whether maybe it's because I haven't bothered to get to know newer members, or what, but I don't seem to know most of the people around here anymore.

... why?

"Hello new member, hope you like it here..."

Edit-- ... Wait, was that you?

[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]As a final note I don't hate the grotesque, I just hate seeing it be feared or portrayed as bad in some way. [/blockquote]

Awesome.  I, too, have an affection for "domesticated" or "civilized" monsters/grotesques, when the monstrous ceases to be repulsive or fearful.

It's inevitable that posters' tastes aren't always going to align, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of a healthy community, I think.

Quote from: Halfling Fritos"Hello new member, hope you like it here..."

Edit-- ... Wait, was that you?

No, that was Darkxarth. But it WOULD be ironic...

Quote from: Steerpike[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]As a final note I don't hate the grotesque, I just hate seeing it be feared or portrayed as bad in some way. [/blockquote]

Awesome.  I, too, have an affection for "domesticated" or "civilized" monsters/grotesques, when the monstrous ceases to be repulsive or fearful.

It's inevitable that posters' tastes aren't always going to align, but that doesn't preclude the possibility of a healthy community, I think.

Boy isn't that true. I remember posting something about what turns people off/on in terms of settings. The opinions and ideas were so varied it was amazing. One person likes this thing, one person does not, and then someone likes it in a totally new way that I hadn't even thought of.

I think though that I could do with being more active. It's good for me in that it gets my creative juices flowing and helps me experience this wonderful community. It's also good for the community for the same reason that it's good to have any of our wonderful members posting things. Someone said (I am too lazy to look at who) that while we are far smaller then places like enworld or wotc, our content is probably far better than theirs. Quality over quantity, I agree that this is an important factor here. As far as I am concerned the posters in the CBG have far more talent then any of the myriad setting creators out there selling off their campaigns to others. This is a conglomeration of like-minded individuals each helping the other to create a better setting. I think it is a rare thing to see such a collection of both inspired artists and intellectual thinkers (I swear that if we learned how to combine steerpike and snargash we would have the ultimate campaign building entity).

In the end I wish I could have been more active, I still cannot predict the future but if I happen upon the chance I will get back to things. I have a quick play rpg system to work on (which got beautiful feedback, thanks to all of you) as well as Karros which has kind of gotten shelved thanks to real life. That though I think is an excellent example of the effectiveness of the CBG. Karros has gone through so many iterations and has been improved and broadened thanks to all of you. I am still just as glad now as I have ever been that I clicked that link in someone's signature on wotc and came here.

I love you guys, your brilliant ideas, wonderful philosophical concepts, and especially all your crazy food and turtle laden antics.

[blockquote=Dwarven Pringles/Nomadic]I swear that if we learned how to combine steerpike and snargash we would have the ultimate campaign building entity[/blockquote]

If only we had our hands on some Potara Earrings...

Quote from: Wensleydale

Quote from: Halfling Fritos"Hello new member, hope you like it here..."

Edit-- ... Wait, was that you?

No, that was Darkxarth. But it WOULD be ironic...

Granted, someone else, I don't remember who, took up the mantle more recently of posting the introduction song.

Was the new member song ever supposed to have a specific tune?  I've never known.

I have to say I'm impressed with the reaction of the boards already.  When I started this thread I was feeling a bit melancholy about the guild in general; now I'm feeling excited.

May i offer some simple idea as to what i have seen as a relatively new member and missed the "Good'ol days" but have trolled for years so i remember the activity from before i was a member.

I think there are two main groups at the CBG. The "Old Guard" and the "New Blood" now i would even create a third group "The New Guard". The Old Guard = ElDo, Vreeg, LC, and the others i wasent around to see. New Guard = Snargash, Limtorn (new? old?), Nomadic XXX, ect. New Blood pretty much everyone else that isnt heavily talented or posting often. These are the groups I SEE. I think the Old Guard members are busy. Busy doing other things not on the CBG, Busy putting one more coat of polish on the masterpiece, or Busy missing the old days. The New Blood is intimidated by "Walls of Text", Already "complete" settings, and lack of "welcome/encouragement/reviews" And we have pretty much hit a creative lull  in the New Guard as they have been the primary sorce of discussion. Alot of the New Blood/Guard are also caught in the 4e change right now. I know that is what happened to my Tu'loras. I didnt get much feedback from the introduction, Had to rewrite/update alot to 4e, and have never really gotten to reposting the new work (other than the map thread), due to intimation and lack of feedback from the original.

Random thoughts:

Maybe moving the "Elite" Large Settings with Walls'o'text to the Wiki and have the Forums for discussion, and leave the Wiki for "publishing" the organized work? Basically use it to "Retire" a basically complete (or not worked on anymore) setting. Let the Wiki be the showcase, that way it eases up on the intimation. (Why would someone read my thread on my setting, if Celtricia already has 30+ pages, a book on the Wiki, and a fan club? - Just using Vreeg as an example -

With "Points of light" the "it thing" i notice alot of setting that used to be original to me are now seeming "standard". My setting was based around the concept of a post medieval apocalypse reflecting Dark Dark ages. 4 years ago i thought i had something orignal in my head. Now i see it everywhere.

Fantasy RPGs in general i think have been leaning DivSet and i don't ever seem to see something Original anymore. Remember Dark Sun? That was unigue, AND it was Standard (published by TSR you get my point). I like to play and build Divset but...

Has RPG setting tastes gone too Generic ?? Too wishing to please EVERY player? Every Poster on the CBG? In search of recognition do we loose/trade our original vision of something Unique?

 

Quote from: LathHas RPG setting tastes gone too Generic ?? Too wishing to please EVERY player? Every Poster on the CBG? In search of recognition do we loose/trade our original vision of something Unique?

Well Karros is most certainly divset. However it isn't aimed at pleasing everyone (though I do try to please as many as I can). The purpose for divset at least to me is to not have to be forced into one concept with a setting. I personally wanted to use Karros as a template if you will. A place that I could have many different and varied stories. A horror here, a classic fantasy here, a dash of intrigue over here, and so on and so forth. It may just be me but I always preferred to make the world as a whole very open ended. The campaigns and such, those are where I really delve into the unique concepts (and a divset world lets me do that).

On an unrelated note, I am honored that you think I am worthy to be ranked with the likes of snargash. Actually a bit surprised considering how much I blather about and get off topic or overly focused on silly thing ("what happens geologically if I put my mountain range next to this swamp...").

Quote from: LathMay i offer some simple idea as to what i have seen as a relatively new member and missed the "Good'ol days" but have trolled for years so i remember the activity from before i was a member.

I think there are two main groups at the CBG. The "Old Guard" and the "New Blood" now i would even create a third group "The New Guard". The Old Guard = ElDo, Vreeg, LC, and the others i wasent around to see. New Guard = Snargash, Limtorn (new? old?), Nomadic XXX, ect. New Blood pretty much everyone else that isnt heavily talented or posting often. These are the groups I SEE. I think the Old Guard members are busy. Busy doing other things not on the CBG, Busy putting one more coat of polish on the masterpiece, or Busy missing the old days. The New Blood is intimidated by "Walls of Text", Already "complete" settings, and lack of "welcome/encouragement/reviews" And we have pretty much hit a creative lull  in the New Guard as they have been the primary sorce of discussion. Alot of the New Blood/Guard are also caught in the 4e change right now. I know that is what happened to my Tu'loras. I didnt get much feedback from the introduction, Had to rewrite/update alot to 4e, and have never really gotten to reposting the new work (other than the map thread), due to intimation and lack of feedback from the original.

I'm curious where you think I'd fit in that....

Quote from:  Snargash, Limtorn (new? old?), Nomadic XXX, ect.[/quoteEveryone[/i] thinks I'm relatively new.

I am not sure if this is a bad thing or not.

Also... why is my name so hard to spell?  It's a common citrus (a lime) and a common first name (Tom).  But together.

EDIT: Err... right.  I changed my name here, didn't I...  Haha... oh wow.  I forgot.

[spoiler]... I was the 4th member of the original CBG on the WotC forums.  Like... before we had a website and stuff.[/spoiler]

Quote from: Cúchulainn

Quote from:  Snargash, Limtorn (new? old?), Nomadic XXX, ect.[/quoteEveryone[/i] thinks I'm relatively new.

I am not sure if this is a bad thing or not.

Also... why is my name so hard to spell?  It's a common citrus (a lime) and a common first name (Tom).  But together.

EDIT: Err... right.  I changed my name here, didn't I...  Haha... oh wow.  I forgot.

[spoiler]... I was the 4th member of the original CBG on the WotC forums.  Like... before we had a website and stuff.[/spoiler]

How could we ever mess up spelling your new name? I mean, Koochelayne isn't too hard, is it? :p

By the way, I don't think you're new. Does that help? :)

I wonder where I would fit?  I've been around since a very early time of this site.  I lurked on the WotC forums, too.  Still, I wasn't part of that tightly knit group and I haven't been active the entire time.  So I'm "Old Blood"?

Yeah, me too. I'm not really sure where I'd lie in those three groupings. Maybe I'm Old Guard from the times when there was a different Old Guard. Maybe I'm New Guard - I certainly haven't been a member from the beginning (although I have been lurking on-and-off as a 'guest' practically since the site moved to this current format). I'm pretty sure I'm not new blood, though. I've hit a creative slump, but I'm pretty busy too... hmm...

I think I fall into the New Blood category, I'm definitely one of the newer "active" members, having only been around about a month and a half.

Somehow, I was Old Guard by day 2.  And I'm not sure how that happenned.
However, I'm still bopping around and contributing, and anyone who mistakes the major work I am still doing on my own setting for a coat of paint can't tell the difference between concrete and Sherman Williams.
Still here, still cranky, still "/puts leather pants on".

Thanks for the line, LordVreeg.

If it helps, I don't think of you as Old Guard, just old.

(Sorry! When somebody starts making jokes about themselves I have a difficult time stopping, so old man jokes are probably going to continue indefinitely. Hehehehe....)

If I had to say, I'd be Mid-Guard! Like, Midgard but better. Midgard? Where was that from? Hmmm, sounds Final Fantasy-ish. Was that 7?  I never played it, it just sounds familiar. Yeah, 7 sounds right.

I don't know if I could actually put myself at "Guard" status, so maybe I'm just mid. Can I be Mid-Boss? That'd be a good title.

I don't even know if I fit in, let alone whether I fit in.  But I also try not to worry about it too terribly much.

I need some campaign worlds to review and critique, is what I need.  Hmmm.

[blockquote=Lath]Maybe moving the "Elite" Large Settings with Walls'o'text to the Wiki and have the Forums for discussion, and leave the Wiki for "publishing" the organized work? Basically use it to "Retire" a basically complete (or not worked on anymore) setting. Let the Wiki be the showcase, that way it eases up on the intimation. (Why would someone read my thread on my setting, if Celtricia already has 30+ pages, a book on the Wiki, and a fan club? - Just using Vreeg as an example -[/blockquote]
I didn't get past the "Old Guard" comment last time.  SO I'm old and I intimate things?  [note]did you mean intimidate?  Just curious...[/note] I'm not feeling all that warm and fuzzy here.  Matter of fact, I think I you upset me so much I lost my place on 661 pages on the celtrician PBwiki.  See if I send you a fanclub button...


[blockquote=Jharviss]If I had to say, I'd be Mid-Guard! Like, Midgard but better. Midgard? Where was that from? Hmmm, sounds Final Fantasy-ish. Was that 7? I never played it, it just sounds familiar. Yeah, 7 sounds right.[/blockquote]  My friend, Midgard is the norse name for earth, or "Middle Earth", to be correct.
Mid-Boss?  

I think all these labels of 'Old Guard,' 'New Guard' and 'New Blood' are utterly pointless and only serve to segregate the community further than it already is.

We are CBGians, nothing more, nothing less.  

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI think all these labels of 'Old Guard,' 'New Guard' and 'New Blood' are utterly pointless and only serve to segregate the community further than it already is.

We are CBGians, nothing more, nothing less.  

Thank You I agree. I did not intend to put people into little groups, and we cant be defined that simply. I tried to Caps the "I SEE" as this is just how i generalize what i see at the CBG, from my limited point of view.

Quote from: AcrimoneI don't even know if I fit in, let alone whether I fit in.  But I also try not to worry about it too terribly much.

I need some campaign worlds to review and critique, is what I need.  Hmmm.

:) Sounds good to me!

Sorry Vreeg, I like to pick on you (as everyone does) and you were the first person to respond about my Setting. You popped my CBG cherry. (i know i am asking for it wording it that way)
I just think the BIG settings (the ones that are "done" or so far along they are not going to change) are hard to critique/post/respond, due to MANY factors. People are talking about how everything seemed new at the beginning, people can change. We just need more NEW/"Up for Discussion"/Brainstorming Engaging Threads. NEW. NEW. NEW. If its old ("set in stone") its just less likely to get other people involved in your setting. When its fresh mailable and still forming its our setting. That was the magic of the CBG. (admittedly totally guessing here). Its still here, its sleeping, lets wake it up.

Quote from: LathThank You I agree. I did not intend to put people into little groups, and we cant be defined that simply. I tried to Caps the "I SEE" as this is just how i generalize what i see at the CBG, from my limited point of view.

Just to state this, my post wasn't directed at your observation, rather people's reaction to your post.

I was doing nothing to try to divide people.  I have wondered before, though, how I am viewed in that way.

For those who remember that I used to post here a fair amount back in the day: I still visit the CBG regularly, though I haven't been posting much. I've gotten lots of great feedback here, but much of my energy is currently devoted to the Pathfinder playtest over on the Paizo boards.

That's eating up most of my dedicated forum time these days, and it will continue to do so until some time next year. But I have no intention of burning any bridges, and expect to still check in every once in a while.

We're not going anywhere...unless Ishy pulls the plug.  Then we're just screwed.

Are there any plans for a celebration of some sort for three years of the guild as an independent site?  It is only a couple of months away.

I think we should do something, at least a contest of some kind.  If needed, I could chip in some to for a prize if we went that route.

Hey, a question regarding commenting on campaign settings:

So if you can't say something constructive (not that you're gonna be mean or anything) you shouldn't say anything at all?

I don't think so. I think all comments, even ones of simple praise, are better than nothing.

Quote from: Elemental_ElfI don't think so. I think all comments, even ones of simple praise, are better than nothing.

I agree... nothing wrong with a good ole "this setting rocks".

Agreed.  Obviously big reviews are better than little comments, but even a sentence or two confirms that someone out there is reading and following your work; that what you're creating is worth someone's time, and that if you keep writing, people will keep reading.

We take what we can get and should be happy with it.

Quote from: Vreeg's Coachwhip.We take what we can get and should be happy with it.

Even if it involves drunk gothlings.

That reminds me...

Quote from: Vreeg's Coachwhip.That reminds me...

That you should never trust scantily-clad Gothlings in a dimly lit Tavern?  

no, I had to post on the beer thread.  I never trust anyone in a goth club...they just trust me...

Quote from: Vreeg's Coachwhip.no, I had to post on the beer thread.  I never trust anyone in a goth club...they just trust me...

Do I detect the hint of a Rogue player?

I think any comment at all is nice, even if it doesn't help anything.