Too many times these days when I try to start a campaign setting, even for pure amusement, it doesn't get anywhere. I think "Oh, I'd better get my ideas all coherent before I do anything substantiative" and it ends up just being a jumble of notes. At this rate I'll never get to tell anyone about my wonderful ideas, which I think is half the fun of doing this (even if it does sound self-centered). So I'm going to change tactics and instead tell you things I've written in my notes and hope that leads me to putting some of them together.
My one overarching design rule is this: "It's a dream, not a reality". By that I mean I don't entirely care if there are logical errors or any of the other factors that break "versimilitude" or "realism". Catering to those generally causes my thoughts to grind to a halt while the logic picks apart my idea. So this time I'm just going to buy into the dream and try to go along for the ride.
So first I need to put together the "look" for my setting.
First I'm going to draw from the bits I like of various genres:
Pulp: The clothes, the swanky nightclubs, the art deco, the technology, the buildings, the exotic locals, the villains, practically everything about the look of the 30s/40s as portrayed in popular media. I think that even if I don't use as much as it might seem from how much I like pulp there's definitely going to be a lot of influence.
Fantasy: Colorful/showy clothes/armor and artifacts/tech. Mostly the stuff you could find in pulp (including the fantasy from pulp such as Conan, though only the look and not the worlds). The variety and weirdness of the creatures, too, especially races with animalistic qualities.
Modern: Gleaming scyscrapers and a lot of the building interiors. Honestly even some of the most dull parts of the interior of a modern building I still like.
Sci-fi (more specifically non-distopian futuristic): The way tech functions and what it can do, but not necessarily its look. Also the vehicles are okay. I prefer fantasy races to most aliens and don't much care for space travel.
The next part is a bit more specific to any sort of focal point to the setting, the Big City sort of thing, but I think it still expresses some of what I want to put into the idea of the setting as a whole.
Climatological outlook: Warm and sunny during the day, foggy at night. It's nice if there is an arid or semi-arid region nearby, essentially like stuff that occurs in the southwestern US out to California. However a good tropical swamp nearby would be greatly appreciated.
What's the soundtrack like? I'm not sure if that question helps or even fits in with your creative process or not, but it ties in with the "look" and can make a big difference in the sense of mood. You've been very clear elsewhere about things you don't like in settings but had a little more difficulty expressing what you do like - I can pretty much rule out a death metal soundtrack for your setting, but not quite getting what you would play when gaming it/listen to when working on it. (These two may not be the same - I avoid music w/ lyrics in a language anyone at the table can understand when gaming, which rules out a fair amount of what I listen to when working on it. . .)
I'm a huge fan of the pulp aesthetic (Bioshock is one of my favorite games, although admittedly its rather dystopian in places). I'm imagining a setting with a real sense of glamour to it, which is sadly rare in most settings. I'm picturing elfin mobsters with trenchcoats and tommy-guns, rosy-cheecked dwarven women baking apple pies... and, randomly (and bizarrely) illithid dancing girls in voluminous skirts... but all of that's probably way off what you're actually going to go for. I'm interested in how you're going to insert any supernatural/fantasy elements into this richly atmospheric dream.
It's an okay question, I don't mind. It's a little difficult to answer because I don't have a grand recall or collection of music. Plus I don't know enough about different kinds of music to be able to name what I like.
I definitely think it should have a beat: any sort of percussion instrument or, if you can't get that, plucking the strings of a chello. But whatever it is it's generally best if you can tap out the rythm. Another factor is that it should be either swingy or grand. For and example of the former see this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUXAqPr59zk), and for the latter just get the Indiana Jones theme stuck in your head. Of course, music would only be played for special scenes and/or musical numbers (take
that into account ;) ), so there isn't a constant musical accompaniment.
I hope that helps.
Quote from: SteerpikeI'm imagining a setting with a real sense of glamour to it, which is sadly rare in most settings.
That's a good way to put it.
Quote from: Steerpike... randomly (and bizarrely) illithid dancing girls in voluminous skirts...
Well, I
do like Futurama, and there was that one episode on Zoidberg's planet'¦'¦'¦'¦
Your description made me combine this:
[spoiler]
(http://www.backdrops.com.au/work/lg_imgs/BW%20Sci%20Fi%20City.jpg)
[/spoiler]
with this:
[spoiler]
(http://listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/60256-1152359707-large.jpg)
[/spoiler]
Almost like a futuristic las vegas. As for music I personally am thinking something very classy but clubish if you know what I mean. It has a bounce, a rhythm, a pop if you will. Almost trancy in style, but slower and a bit more mellow.
I'm assuming your second picture is supposed to be on some sort of space station. I'm going to say right now that if I do this as space-faring sci-fi (and that's the most likely course at this point) that I'd significantly downplay the space-faring part. I don't find outer space to be all that impressive. It's kind of like Earth's oceans: unless it involves pirates or something lost in the depths it's just a big open patch of nothing. I'd prefer to concentrate on what happens planetside.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawI'm assuming your second picture is supposed to be on some sort of space station. I'm going to say right now that if I do this as space-faring sci-fi (and that's the most likely course at this point) that I'd significantly downplay the space-faring part. I don't find outer space to be all that impressive. It's kind of like Earth's oceans: unless it involves pirates or something lost in the depths it's just a big open patch of nothing. I'd prefer to concentrate on what happens planetside.
Technically it is a space station but that wasn't really what I was getting at. I was using it as a representation of the open grand vistas common in sci-fi. It had nothing to do with space.
Though while we are on that topic. Why no space travel? Space is anything but empty. Indeed grand architecture like that in the picture is a good example of what you might find in such a place. Massive colonies, other worlds, etc. Now I understand downplaying the travel itself since yea that can be boring. However, there is plenty to expand into outside of earth.
Quote from: Dwarven PringlesWhy no space travel? Space is anything but empty. Indeed grand architecture like that in the picture is a good example of what you might find in such a place. Massive colonies, other worlds, etc. Now I understand downplaying the travel itself since yea that can be boring. However, there is plenty to expand into outside of earth.
You got it right in one and then misinterpreted in the next sentence: I want to downplay the big open parts of space, not the interesting places you find. What I really want is what you get in Indiana Jones: when you don't need to know what's in between places they just draw a red line across the map. It's very in keeping with what I like about pulp.
Really if there is space travel (and Stargate has shown us that you can have multiple planets in a setting without using spaceships all the time) the idea wouldn't be that it it doesn't happen at all but that it's a rather minor part of what you look at in the setting. So while you could conceivably have Star Trek happening somewhere I just don't choose to make a big deal out of it.
Quote from: SilvercatMoonpawQuote from: Dwarven PringlesWhy no space travel? Space is anything but empty. Indeed grand architecture like that in the picture is a good example of what you might find in such a place. Massive colonies, other worlds, etc. Now I understand downplaying the travel itself since yea that can be boring. However, there is plenty to expand into outside of earth.
You got it right in one and then misinterpreted in the next sentence: I want to downplay the big open parts of space, not the interesting places you find. What I really want is what you get in Indiana Jones: when you don't need to know what's in between places they just draw a red line across the map. It's very in keeping with what I like about pulp.
Really if there is space travel (and Stargate has shown us that you can have multiple planets in a setting without using spaceships all the time) the idea wouldn't be that it it doesn't happen at all but that it's a rather minor part of what you look at in the setting. So while you could conceivably have Star Trek happening somewhere I just don't choose to make a big deal out of it.
Well then the whole conversation we're having is kind of silly since we both largely agree :P (I do like the open space stuff but I prefer what you're talking about). It was just several misunderstandings.
Okay, seeing as how I've gotten down the "look" elements I'm going to put up some slightly generic setting elements. Again, these are just sort of notes and not terrible specific yet:
Animal-people: Some people don't like them. Me, they seem to provoke a better response than anything that looks human. It's various combinations of primality/atavism, mythological, and just the fact that it connects back the cartoons they show you when you're a kid.
The "Better Guys": This is the setting civilization that's closer to the "shining ideal" vision than most of the others. The society is on the whole tolerant, prosperous, and uncorrupted, and is just generally the best place to live. This doesn't mean that factions within the larger society can't hate each, that some people might not be richer or poorer, or that there isn't a little corruption in the government. But the idea is that these are exceptions to provide flavor and something for the protagonists to oppose rather than the norm.
The "Worse Guys": The big legitimate opposition. The idea is that this society is a lot worse in every way than the "Better Guys", but probably can't be categorized as deliberately destructive and cruel, rather rigidly conformist and with the rich leading corruption. They're paranoid and greedy, prone to using spies and proxy wars. But they aren't a totalitarian dictatorship; they are more or less a democracy/republic. Think of the US during the 50s and you'll probably see what I mean.
The Adventure Regions: The unexplored or just-starting-to-be-explored region of the setting with all the really cool ancient buildings and MacGuffins. It's probably inhabited by new civilizations to have misunderstandings with, and is being coveted by the "Worse Guys" while the "Better Guys" are playing diplomat and just generally trying to nice people into joining them.
The Place for Storing Old Stuff: A university or museum (and there's definitely a private club, possibly as opposition) which is dedicated to finding, studying, and keeping Old Stuff so you can have adventures revolving around it.
The Adventurers' Society: The private club for people who go out and get themselves into trouble to go and brag about it afterwards. These can be "fame and glory" people the Place for Storing Old Stuff calls treasure hunters, or they could just be a convenient (and virtuous) center for adventure dispatch. Heck, have both and you've got ready-made rivalry.
The "Mall"-burb: I'm using mall here as a reference word to refer to the look of consumer culture America and the way you could see the idealized parts (like the suburb houses) displayed in a mall. (Note: this isn't meant to be a completely derogatory usage. I actually think this sort of image is okay for when you want to evoke modern pop culture (such as a game featuring teens).)
The Glamor District: The part of the setting with the pulp city look and swanky places to hang out.
The Swanky Nightclub: The big happening place that people go to for hanging out in style and having meetings with bigwigs. If you want mobsters and politicians this is the place to find them.
The 5-star Hotel: You have to have somewhere to store your visiting VINPCs.
The Otherworld: The slightly mystical place that lies either "just under" or "just to the side" of the main world of the city.
Hmmm, the question now is whether I want to set this on Earth. There's still some feeling about the familiarity of Earth that I like. But I always worry about getting Earth "wrong", and I don't like making humans and Earth important.
But if it's a dream than it's a dream Earth. I suppose I should just do it and be done.
You could just make it a world that is like earth, but not the same thing. That way you can make anything you want, anywhere you want it.
Or you could always go the Firefly route and mythologize earth as a long-lost homeland, "Earth-That-Was," placing the setting very firmly in a "real-world" continuity but also allowing you to disregard all vestiges of real-world nations/countries, creating an utterly different political and physical landscape.
Yeah, I think I'll set this somewhere else. Whether or not Earth exists I'll leave open for now.
So now we have me putting the main setting on a non-Earth planet. It'll near or on the border of the "Better Guys" with the "Adventure Region" but near enough to the "Worse Guys" that there would be spies. In addition to the normal space travel I'm thinking of having some sort of space distortion phenomena that can directly link planets so that space can be bypassed if the story seems to need it. Kind of like Stargate, except it would be natural but sometimes harnassed by various ancient stuff. (It allows me to explain non-space-faring planets having links to each other.)
Alternatively I could drop the space-faring angle and just link the planets this way, though I find it a little harder to work in the "Worse Guys" as being a multi-planet state this way.
[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]the exotic locals, the villains, practically everything about the look of the 30s/40s as portrayed in popular media[/blockquote]
[blockquoteSilvercat Moonpaw]... they aren't a totalitarian dictatorship; they are more or less a democracy/republic.[/blockquote]
You mention Indiana Jones and pulp generally as an influence, and general media portrayals of the 30s/40s, including villains. What I'm wondering, in essence, is "who are the goons?"
To me, part of the pulp appeal is the simplified or stylized sense of morality; Indiana Jones provides the classic example. Indy is allowed to shoot, hack, punch bloody, chop to bits (well, that was an airplane blade, but it was in a fight with Indy), explode, joust, dismember, and generally murder his way through veritable hordes of baddies without a second thought; in Raiders of the Lost Ark he seems willing to bazooka an entire squad of men and is stopped not by the prospect of kiling numerous people but by the value of the Ark. Why? Because the villains are Evil, with a capital E. They're Nazis (or evil cultists, or Soviets), and the looming War (and behind it the Holocaust and the other horrors of the Third Reich) is very much in the background, even if it isn't right up in the forefront. They're inherently Evil, really despicable, totally ruled by greed and lust for power, willing to send men into trap-filled tombs even though they know they're likely not to come out (The Last Crusade); this means that even the henchmen are Evil by extension, and that killing them by the dozen doesn't make us bat an eye.
I'm not saying that the setting needs a looming WWII/Cold War, but at least right now it seems bereft of the usual villains in a pulp environment. The US government is hardly portrayed as an all-benevolent force in Indiana Jones with its air of secrecy and stern authority("top men, Dr. Jones...") and are only a few shades of gray away from your Worse Guys, but I can't see Indy mowing through a platoon of US soldiers. What I'm basically getting at is that the Worse Guys don't seem like adequate pulp villains to me, in that as a player I'd hesitate to kill Worse Guy goons, or would feel a lot of remorse afterwards, which seems to detract from the stylized morality typical of pulp.
I get that this is going to be a looooong way off from a hack 'n slash melee affair, but are you going to downplay the action of pulp completely, cut out the swashbuckling violence, the six-shooters and whips and bloody brawls and screaming henchmen plummeting to death-by-crocodile when the rope-bridge gets cut? Cuz as a player, if I was told "this is a pulp setting" I'd be gearing up at least partly for some rollicking violence without deep moral introspection or guilt afterwards... Are there going to be any real goons or is this going to be a setting with almost nil physical confrontation, or are you ditching that aspect of pulp completely in favor of a grittier, more realistic approach?
That's a good question, and it was one I hadn't considered. I don't actually remember the movies I watched being that deadly, but it has been a while for some. I'm probably channeling too much Golden Age superheroes instead, where Good Guys never killed Bad Guys because that would send The Wrong Message.
Also you have to remember that these are a bit more in the way of generic notes. Were I to run them in a pulp-style game I would make the Worse Guys even worse (becoming the "So Bad It's Fun To Kill Them Guys"). (But I still like the paranoid US angle. I know I've always wanted to kill one of those robotic patriots that are always trying to dissect the friendly alien.) On the other hand if I need a source of "Humorously Patriotic Yet Comically Incompetent And Not Really All That Evil" villains they're just about there. I think of them as right on the line where I can tweak them rather than have to do a complete redesign.
[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]I don't actually remember the movies I watched being that deadly, but it has been a while for some.[/blockquote]
Might be some rose-tinted glasses there. Check this (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1777697/indiana_jones_body_count/) out.
But if you can tweak the Worse Guys to suit your needs, great. Are there going to probably be any other major villains?
Quote from: SteerpikeMight be some rose-tinted glasses there. Check this (http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1777697/indiana_jones_body_count/) out.
Nah, I just didn't
remember most of that. Anyway I tend to have better recollection of The Shadow (1993 movie) which doesn't feature that amount of killing.
Quote from: SteerpikeBut if you can tweak the Worse Guys to suit your needs, great. Are there going to probably be any other major villains?
Probably. But at this stage they don't have the sort of generic definition that I've put into the rest of the notes.
I think now I've done all the genericness I can do. Next up is to try to work this into a setting. I think I'm going to have it be a "modern/slightly future" (as the style would look to us) setting, but with a lot of influence from its pulp-style past.
EDIT: I probably just got in over my head again. x.
[blockquote=Silvercat Moonpaw]I'm probably channeling too much Golden Age superheroes instead, where Good Guys never killed Bad Guys because that would send The Wrong Message.[/blockquote]
It's interesting you say that, because I don't think that was always the case. Batman (who was influenced by the original Shadow, not the movie version but the radio/comic one of the '30's) killed quite a bit at the beginning of his career in the 30s/40s; its only in later years that he acquired his distaste for vigilante killing:
[blockquote=Wikipedia]The first Batman story, "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate," was published in Detective Comics #27 (May 1939). Finger said, "Batman was originally written in the style of the pulps",[13] and this influence was evident with Batman showing little remorse over killing or maiming criminals and was not above using firearms. [/blockquote]
Yeah, I knew that. I meant to say something about it but figured it wasn't that important to what I meant.
First up, deciding what goes in what generic category:
The Ancients: Known by various names including Kehek (native term from Unknown Country), Serians (super-bad guys' name), Narras (most common used in the current day).
The Old Super-Bad Guys: Party for Order Temperance, short form: Porte/Portis (derogatory "morties"). A group originally begun as simple political party it was slowly corrupted into a pride movement based around the superiority of certain individuals who were believed to be descended from the legendary creator species known at that time as the Serians. They were defeated in the Ancients War, though there are still occasional Neo-Porte movements in the current day. Their symbol is a skull, ironically a symbol of peace and renewal for many cultures.
The Big War: The Ancients War.
The "Better Guys": The Alliance. (What I'd really like to do is somehow not use one of those generic "sounds like a government" names.)
The "Worse Guys": The Federation. Supposedly a democratic republic in reality the Fed is civilization of control freaks who are deeply paranoid of anyone who doesn't fit their view of proper civilization. They have an extensive rivalry with the Alliance.
The Adventure Regions: Unknown Country.
The Place for Storing Old Stuff: Foxden University.
The Adventurers' Society: The Daring Club.
The "Mall"-burb: Silver Fields, with the Creepy Old House on Moon Hill.
The Glamor District: Dreamland.
The Swanky Nightclub: The Silver Cat.
The 5-star Hotel: The Henson.
You're right, and I was just being snarky with that comment above, really. I'm very much looking forward to see where you're taking this (and glad that even if they're not at the forefront that Old Super-Bad Guys are at least on some level present in the setting, if at least to better define the gleaming colour and stalwart goodness of the Better Guys).
While I'm sure you'll formulate your own ideas for all of the elements posted, how much of a Mob presence are you thinking of for this setting (could a futuristic Mob in the Worse Guys civilization actually fulfill the niche of the Super Bad-Guys?)? When I think 30's I think Mob, but clearly you want to downplay some elements of the era (dustbowl, depression, prohibition, fascism, eugenics, and the darker "noir" elements in general, it seems) and play up others (art deco, fashion, colour, skyscrapers, music), which makes a lot of sense.
Quote from: SteerpikeWhile I'm sure you'll formulate your own ideas for all of the elements posted, how much of a Mob presence are you thinking of for this setting (could a futuristic Mob in the Worse Guys civilization actually fulfill the niche of the Super Bad-Guys?)? When I think 30's I think Mob, but clearly you want to downplay some elements of the era (dustbowl, depression, prohibition, fascism, eugenics, and the darker "noir" elements in general, it seems) and play up others (art deco, fashion, colour, skyscrapers, music), which makes a lot of sense.
Another good question. First thing is you're right that I'm more interested in the style elements than the stuff that made up events. For something that spans multiple planets, species, and cultures it's rather hard to work in all those elements on they scale they should have, even taking liberties. Anyway I prefer the adventure pulp stuff; remember that one of the musics I think about is the Indiana Jones theme, and that's not something that goes very well with most of those elements you mentioned.
As to the Mob I'll probably just include them for the heck of it. I'm not good with terribly frightening universes, so they'll be threatening but when they're not being focused on you don't have to worry about them sneaking up behind you with a tommy gun. Ironically they survive better in the "Better Guys" civilization than the "Worse Guys", either because the latter is quite willing to trample peoples' rights in pursuit of "justice" or because the latter is so corrupt that there's too much competition to keep together an organization.
I'm almost getting a Talespin vibe (link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89cCYm4V1nc) for those who haven't witnessed the awesomeness) from this... is that kinda what you're going for?
Quote from: SteerpikeI'm almost getting a Talespin vibe (link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89cCYm4V1nc) for those who haven't witnessed the awesomeness) from this... is that kinda what you're going for?
I was afraid to mention it, but it is a big inspiration. For all its Disneyness it's a great show for what I think of as a lot of the look and feel of the era. The Federation as control freaks definitely comes from Thembria. While the tech of Talespin isn't advanced enough for what I'm aiming at now I still think there will be a resemblence.
Also, Steerpike, you should know that I agree a lot with you about the Old Super-Bad Guys being a really necessary part of making the Good Guys of the setting look Good. And while they might be gone as a major force in the setting there's going to be enough bits of them lying around that they can pop up and be really mean. I just want to keep them from being the clichéd "single culture of alien biggots".
You shouldn't be afraid to invoke Talespin, Don Carnage is the best thing eveeer!
Gotcha on the "alien bigots" front. This setting is already very far from hackneyed, no need to resort to heavy-handed stereotypes.
Oooo, I just got something that might work for the Old Super-Bad Guys: they have special powers, so that's a natural superiority complex waiting to happen. What's key is that these powers don't have to be confined to one species so they aren't racial biggots. Psionics seems like a good fit: they thing they have psionic power, but the twist would be that psionics don't exist in this setting. Exactly how they think of their "superiority" I'm still working on (i.e. do they think the usual "we are the next stage of evolution").
And now for a pulp-style organization that's still in operation (still not sure about the name):
The Science Rangers: Founded by the infamous scientific-adventurer/walking disaster known as Doc Hazard the Rangers were brought together to serve as crime-fighters and troubleshooters in the pre-war period, especially against the Portis. During the war they were granted full military status though their activities did not change. Today the organization is a full branch of the Alliance's interstellar police.
Are you planning on keeping Doc Hazard alive in the current time-frame, or killing him off in the war with some hero's death or something? Cuz he sounds pretty spiffy.
Well there's also the possibility that he survived the war but died of natural causes: I'm not sure yet how far to set the Current Time from the war, and I don't know yet how long his species lives (mostly because I haven't decided what species he is at all). If he's a human (and was around 29 at the start of the war) and the war was only 20 years ago he'd likely still be alive. But if it's 70 years later he's most likely dead.
The timeline is the real problem at the moment.
(Though he could always gotten preserved for some reason'¦'¦'¦'¦'¦)
Proposed species looks so far: dragons, unicorns, anthro cats, mantid insectoids, anthro pigs (PIGS'¦'¦INNNNNNNNNN'¦'¦SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!), anthro crocodiles. Needs some shapeshifters.
Time to start setting building!
City: Gateway, City at the Edge of Everywhere. Born as the hub of trade between the Alliance and the multitude of small nations in Unknown Country, Gateway was once also once the center of Alliance culture back in the period around the time of the Ancients War. These days it loses out to the newer Alliance colonies.
Hey, everything's named now!
Thread necromancy, because this is the only one in a while that had anything going for it.
Very nice, looks really good so far. I love the originality of it being like a "dream" of reality. It really changes the way you look at it.
Quote from: DrizztrocksI love the originality of it being like a "dream" of reality. It really changes the way you look at it.
It's funny, I wrote what you read and I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. x.
I do think it's an important part of the way the setting should be approached. If one approaches it as a serious reality they might miss what it really means.